Blake Lively & Justin Baldoni - THE WISE VERSION

Our favorite therapists (Kelly Kilgallon & Jon Butz) take on the BIG FISH that is  the messy Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni lawsuit—a Hollywood feud that reveals complex questions about power dynamics, creative control, and on-set boundaries.

- music by blanket forts -

Transcript

Welcome to the Wise Mind Podcast

Speaker 1 0:04

Welcome to the Craig Kilbourne podcast, whose title we're not sure of whose title we'll say today is the wise mind happier podcast. I'm your host, kelly, here with John. John, john Welcome.

Speaker 3 0:26

Welcome everyone. We're glad you're back.

Speaker 1 0:28

Yeah, we're glad you're back and we're recording on a Friday night here, so we're having a Lucy goosey time.

Speaker 3 0:34

Lucy goosey night His podcast. Craig Kilbourne's podcast Is called the Life Gorgeous.

Speaker 1 0:37

The Life Gorgeous. Isn't that a great title. I love that.

Speaker 2 0:43

Yeah.

Speaker 1 0:43

Yeah, it sounds like Like how I'll sometimes call something beautiful, gorgeous. It like sounds like I don't know the life gorgeous.

Speaker 4 0:49

You have a song about that yeah do you want to sing it?

Speaker 1 0:55

it's too. It's too embarrassing, should I?

Speaker 4 0:57

sing it. You could sing it. I'll do a worse job yeah it's like beautiful, beautiful, gorgeous that's. Is that it? That's?

Speaker 2 1:08

yeah, that's the refrain it's like what I'll sing by myself.

Speaker 1 1:13

So I think sometimes I'll like sing randomly because josh is so like dialed into his headphones that I'll like like a little kid. I'll try to like get his attention. Yeah, that makes sense because I need constant attention constant.

Speaker 3 1:26

Um, you know what's something that got my attention recently. I was in walgreens this is, people are already falling asleep, but I was picking up a medication for my son and picking up pictures. And I'm walking to the register to pay for the pictures and there's a woman standing there and I just I stopped because I figured she was paying. And she's standing there looking at me and the person working the register was like no, no, no, come on over, like I'm open, and I'm like okay, and I start walking.

Speaker 1 2:02

And she's like up there.

Speaker 3 2:04

And she's up there just standing there with like stuff that I thought she was like purchasing yeah and she looks at me and she says why are you looking? So mean? You are pretty good looking and you should smile more. She's like a toxic man, just deadpan, was she and then? And then I was like uh, okay, and she was like I mean I don't know why you're looking like that. You should go home, drink some water, eat dinner and have a good night.

Speaker 1 2:32

You should smile more go home drink some water yeah, dinner you dinner smile more I like that.

Speaker 3 2:40

She said pretty good looking like you're not. Not good looking, you're an eight. You're like yeah, yeah yeah, you interpret that as an eight. I interpret it a little bit lower than that. Like you know, you're past the bowl, Like you're okay.

Speaker 1 2:54

You're all right. Just straight, direct too, yeah, but I mean she's-.

Speaker 3 2:59

Why do you look so mean?

Speaker 1 3:01

Completely out of her mind.

Speaker 3 3:06

You should smile more right, she was like hitting on you at the end of the day. No, I honestly don't believe that, and she was just standing at the counter, like in a strange way she was standing there with things that were on the counter that were obviously hers, that I think she was gonna buy, and I don't know why she was waiting there. But um, it was just so abrupt and what's interesting about it is like I was laughing so hard when I got in my car because it was just really funny.

Speaker 2 3:30

But also like.

Speaker 3 3:31

I've gotten feedback from people that I either I think I brought this up before that I look intimidating, or that I look really serious, or people don't know what's going on like in my head, and so it didn't surprise me one bit that somebody would say something like that about me. It's just the way she said.

Speaker 1 3:48

It was just so funny yeah, that is funny, but I had to save that for the check-in and shout out to my friend brianne, who was like you.

Speaker 3 3:58

Got to bring that up in the podcast I was like I'm gonna bring it up in the podcast, because I shared it with her and she was dying why, don't you smile more?

Speaker 1 4:06

why do you look so mean? It's like you're pretty good.

Speaker 3 4:09

Why do you look so?

Speaker 1 4:10

crazy, why do?

Speaker 3 4:11

you look like you're gonna hurt me right now. I was just gonna like thanks.

Speaker 1 4:16

I was like okay, yeah, it's like such an uncompliment you're like you're telling me I mean it was like you're yelling at me. Yeah, you're yelling at me that I'm good looking but, but not really good looking, pretty good and you're me.

Speaker 3 4:30

You mean looking, so anyway that's so good that's the only thing that's happened in the past couple weeks oh my god that interaction in my life that's all I got.

Speaker 1 4:39

It's all I've been honestly well, what's funny is I was gonna mention that I'm supposed to supposed to go see my aunt this weekend, but I'm not able to go. She, you know she's getting up there in age and like it's difficult. You know you never know how she's going to feel, but I could see her saying something like that to someone at a Walgreens. Yeah for sure.

Speaker 3 4:59

Was she recently at one? Was it her?

Speaker 1 5:01

Probably.

Strange Walgreens Encounter

Speaker 3 5:03

She gets out. This woman did not look 92 years old okay got it I would say probably like 50, somewhere in that range okay but I'm really bad at guessing ages. But you know it's funny, it's like but it made me call back to it, actually made me think I'm gonna cut you off here of the the uh tuxedo comment for summary the drastic oh for some reason my mind went there where it was just like nobody's asking you to comment

Speaker 3 5:32

on how I look like yeah on anything about me, but just like put it out there, like I don't know, for some reason my, my mind kind of went there a little bit where it was like certainly not an apples to apples comparison, but yeah, just kind of like oh okay, you're just saying things about me you're just like objectifying me.

Speaker 1 5:52

No one asked anyway it. You know. That is almost like itself. I mean, maybe this could be, or what. How is this a question which is like is it ever okay to comment on someone's appearance because it's funny? Like I think it's really dangerous territory? I do, and yet I'll do it sometimes. Sure, I'll often do it with my clients. Like I'll be like oh my god, you cut your hair because like it feels like a safe zone of like me, noticing their life.

Speaker 3 6:24

Yeah, that's the thing that feels like you're noticing, you're not judging it.

Speaker 1 6:28

Right. But I usually will say I love it, and I usually do love it.

Speaker 3 6:33

But it's like If you didn't love it, would you still notice it? Yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 6:39

But it's like for me to like really care enough that I was like bothered by their hair. It would be so crazy. That'd be great, because it's not my hair, yeah, you know. So they picked some like insane mullet. I'd be like rock on and a part of me would really respect such a bold choice. If that were on my head, I would literally black out, like if someone cut my hair that way. But yeah, it's like, but it's really like. I remember listening to like a style podcast I love that you said mullet it's so great.

Speaker 1 7:12

Most, I think, are making comeback.

Speaker 3 7:13

They are I was at a barbecue over the weekend, one of my college buddies and he, his oldest son, is going to be a junior, I think in high school, and I was like Miles was like well, what kind of haircut cut is that? And he, like it, looks at me and he's like modern mullet. And I was like, oh nice, I love that Modern, the modern mullet. Yeah, so cool.

Speaker 1 7:35

I think a bold choice was style is so cool. But yeah, like this podcast I was listening to, they were like. This woman was like, she's like. Obviously I would never say to someone like your body looks so good in that outfit. Like to a stranger, she's like. But I'll think to myself if I walk past someone like she lives in New York and she's like. If I'm walking down the street in New York, like, and I see someone who looks so insanely good in their outfit, she's like, but she's like. I think to myself like wouldn't it be so nice for them to know that I think they look so good? She's like. But there's just like these politics of saying it and like is that what you really think?

Speaker 1 8:10

Or is there like a come on here? Is there like a weirdness? She was like almost disappointed at like the barrier to her, saying that.

Speaker 3 8:19

Yeah, I feel like there's also maybe semantics involved, because if you said that's an amazing outfit, yeah, that's a little bit different right Than saying like, you look so amazing in that.

Speaker 1 8:36

Yeah or I don't know, that is so good on your body. Well, that is right.

Speaker 3 8:41

That seems a little bit much, right, I guess what I'm saying is again, it's like the noticing right, you don't have to bring a body but I think sometimes yeah your body is but it's funny, like my friend leah, I remember before her wedding I remember I went to her bachelorette party.

Speaker 1 9:00

I was like damn, you look so good and I meant more like her body.

Speaker 3 9:05

But that's like your friend, my friend.

Speaker 1 9:07

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 9:09

I just think when you start with your body insert problem, yeah, it's like you're in already, you're. Are you've already pulled the pin on a grenade? Like it's just like the person.

Speaker 1 9:21

where are you going to trust? Yeah? Where are you going to throw it? It if you're going to start with your body? That's true. That's true.

Speaker 3 9:27

But I think if somebody looks very like, if what they're wearing is very like wow, you could say that Like, that's an amazing outfit.

Speaker 1 9:35

That's an amazing outfit A lot of people are like oh, I love this.

Speaker 3 9:37

You know, like that.

Speaker 1 9:40

It's so funny.

Speaker 2 9:41

Right.

Speaker 1 9:41

Your body.

Speaker 2 9:43

Yeah.

Speaker 1 9:44

But there is some level on which maybe what all people want to hear is like your body looks amazing, yeah.

Speaker 3 9:51

Or whatever, but there's also some like just no fly zones.

Speaker 1 9:54

Yeah.

Speaker 3 9:55

Because don't people say all the time like, oh my God, you have beautiful eyes, like if somebody has eyes like nobody has a problem. Well, I don't know, Maybe people do have a problem.

Speaker 1 10:03

if somebody says that I shouldn't make an assumption, women. If some stranger says something like that it there's, like it's so rare that you don't feel creeped out by, okay, you still feel creeped out if the guy's like so hot or something, but even then I might feel creeped okay, so it's all no fly zones unless it's like if josh and I, when we were dating, you said that I would like it first say it I'm trying to think, I'm trying to put myself in that space.

Speaker 1 10:28

If you said, wow, yeah, it's like, honestly, like I don't even think my eyes are such a great feature, but let's pretend they were, and it's like, wow, you have the most beautiful eyes. What would I say? I probably say thank you, and would I? Would that feel good? Maybe?

Speaker 3 10:46

Yeah, I guess I was making an assumption that maybe there was a little bit more neutrality with certain features.

Speaker 1 10:54

I kind of think hair sometimes Maybe I'm wrong.

Speaker 3 10:57

Yeah, maybe where we started with your clients and their haircuts.

Speaker 1 11:01

It's like there's a tissue on your head.

Speaker 3 11:06

It's like I love your hair Because you style it.

Speaker 1 11:10

Yeah, I, I mean what this is really teasing part is it's just like don't comment at all. Yeah, it almost is like unwise the fact that we're even yeah, totally don't, we don't even know yeah, yeah, it's like you might as well, just not yeah you can comment on someone's shirt right, I think yeah that's a really cool shirt, john your body looks so good in that shirt

Speaker 3 11:32

your pecs are busting out of that shirt your body's a wonderland in that shirt, oh my god wait.

Commenting on Appearances

Speaker 1 11:37

Thank you for bringing problematic song thank you for bringing that up because, okay, we were talking earlier about how sometimes it's so nice to work with patients or clients or even meet people out in the wild that, like, have very little therapy experience, and then they're really floored by some more fundamental basic therapy concepts. I saw this interview on instagram with john mayer and the title said josh and I have talked so much about his like relationship history and like, and I drag him so much, but they were like John Mayer has a new relationship philosophy and the quote was vulnerability is the shit. And I was like first of all saying something is the shit, is almost like early aughts at this point. That's awesome, it's so over. And then it's like to like have just in 2025, stumbled upon the idea of vulnerability is funny In your 40s.

Speaker 3 12:35

Well, yeah, I was going to say I think it's even funnier, for maybe how old he is. Yeah, not that he's old by any means, but like he's been dating for a long time.

Speaker 1 12:47

Like he old by any means, but like he's been dating for a long time, like he's finally like stumbled across, like being honest and authentic and yeah, and that's like where it's at right. It did make me laugh, it's like whatever, he doesn't care what I think, but it I thought it was funny because I have like kind of dragged him and then to him and listen, guys, this is vulnerability stuff.

Speaker 3 13:04

Well, I mean, is it better late than never? I mean, maybe he's come around now.

Speaker 1 13:08

It's better late than never, Better late right, it's better late than never for whoever he's going to date next.

Speaker 3 13:13

I want to give him the benefit of the doubt here. Yeah, maybe he's. Yeah, but it's like I hawk so much no, but that's a hilarious title toxic.

Speaker 1 13:23

Hopefully he's turning the corner on that with this new philosophy. But I think it's like I I'm even guilty of this where it's like obviously we're therapists. I talk about vulnerability so much, it's almost annoying, and then it's like to really practice it, like like in our relationship, josh, like it's hard to really be vulnerable and be like oh, I said this really stupid thing or this really, or I was unfair to you in this way and I have to own it.

Speaker 3 13:49

It's hard like it's hard. That's why I want to give him the benefit of the doubt, not that he gets a pass on anything but, like it is really hard and for people who maybe don't I mean, I don't know anything about him, but maybe people who don't work on it like they are, they come to it later yeah, yeah, and if you're a celebrity, because he was famous pretty young, I think yeah, right, he was in his yeah, mid-20s I think and he's been popular for a long time for so long.

Speaker 1 14:19

It's like if you're so popular like that, everyone's saying yes to you, no matter what you do probably so where would you get the like impetus? Right so now look, we're defending him, we're standing I don't.

Speaker 3 14:34

I was just giving him the benefit of the doubt I mean the title of the article is a riot, and the title is like, so like the shit like whoever wrote wrote the articles like I fucking hate this. But did you read the article, or was it just?

Speaker 1 14:51

you know, okay, I'm a millennial.

Speaker 3 14:54

No.

Speaker 2 14:55

I'm as guilty as the next person to that.

Speaker 3 14:56

I'm always like Sarah get this title and she said well, what did it say? And I'm like I don't read that.

Speaker 1 15:03

But Title's enough. God, I love an article where you read the title. It's like you kind of know the article.

Speaker 3 15:08

But I'm curious, like what's the genesis of that? His insight?

Speaker 1 15:15

Yeah, Actually great question I get the feeling because I saw a little clip of the interview live, like the video clip of the interview live like the video clip, and he, he did like say something which was, I guess, a little bit vulnerable.

Speaker 1 15:27

And he was like you know, I did the thing where, you know, after dating like a million women and kind of having that look kind of bad, you know, I hid out in my home and showed everyone I'm a, I'm a good boy, I'm not dating anyone, see. And I was like I wonder if he came to that insight from a therapist. You know that like, oh, is your maybe pulling back from the public?

Speaker 3 15:49

eye. I was going to say what's the insight?

Speaker 1 15:52

Well, no that made me think that he had seen a therapist, so maybe the insight thus came also from a therapist.

Speaker 3 15:58

Oh, okay, that was my thought what? He said. But he was trying to present himself as like look at me, I don't need to be in a relationship all the time.

Speaker 1 16:05

Yeah, it was like a defense against all the criticism he got for the way he handled like Katy Perry and Jessica. Simpson, taylor Swift, dear John is about him Apparently, I think she lost her virginity to him. According to the song, his whole reputation was like I go after these women. Well, the relationship with Jessica Simpson was the worst because it's like the whole time they were dating he was like I don't respect you, I don't like you.

Speaker 1 16:31

You're just quote. And he said this sexual napalm, what yeah Like? Like the sex with her was so great that that's why they were together. But he would over and over kind of say to her, like I would never date you, I never be with someone, as like dumb and ditzy and pop star as you and would be like vocal about this, and it makes me so sad for her that she would ever put up with that from anyone right awful.

Speaker 1 16:53

It made him sound to me. I was like, wow, this person is god. They have so much work to do, so so now he wants to be more authentic in relationships. I guess so For two people who have not read the article. We're going to talk about it. We're going to talk about it. This is great.

Speaker 3 17:15

This is what we do here. We have no knowledge of anything, and we're experts in it.

Speaker 1 17:21

Oh God, that is the story of my life. I'll skim this.

Speaker 3 17:28

why are we not changing our podcast name to the wise mind experts on what? Anything, just anything you could think of?

Speaker 1 17:35

yeah yeah well, yeah, it's like the podcast I listened to about his relationship history. Like, really, I was like, oh man, if you, if I were him listening to this, I'd be like I got a long look in the mirror Because, yeah, like similar stuff with Katy Perry, I think, like he was very like. But I also think the type of guy who, like I think a lot of these men who and this is broad, but I'm sensing that like a lot of these men or people in general, who, like always think someone isn't good enough for them. It's just such a classic like you don't feel good enough.

Speaker 1 18:12

So, you're trying to find a partner who will, like, rescue you from your own insignificance, your own inferiority, and when you're more in your wise mind, in self-energy, you just find a partner you like rather than like. They've got to meet all these criteria.

Speaker 3 18:30

I see.

Speaker 1 18:30

Since I don't but they don't. The since I don't is not conscious, but I do think that's there and I'm like I'm yet to like be proven wrong in like the direct experience I've had with those people. Even I think myself sometimes in dating like I was talking about this earlier like I need my partner to rescue me from my own deficits and resolve them.

Speaker 1 18:59

Not even necessarily fix them, but it's like find the peace with them, the acceptance or whatever resolution is necessary on your own, and then meet a partner who you just enjoy and you love, and they don't need to meet any criteria at all. You know, whatever, that's my thought. Well, maybe the article talks about that, yeah, we'll never know we're definitely not gonna read it I almost don't know if I could find it. It's like lost my tiktok scroll.

Speaker 3 19:29

That sounds great, though I'm sure you could yeah just type in in quotes of vulnerability is the shit yeah, I bet it would come up.

Speaker 1 19:36

Yeah, I'm sure if I typed in John Mayer text John Mayer I'm supposed to be quick texting.

Speaker 2 19:40

It's so funny though it's so funny.

Speaker 1 19:43

Yeah totally.

Speaker 3 19:44

Did he ever date Blake Lively?

Speaker 1 19:45

No, she dated Leonardo DiCaprio, who's famously toxic. Yeah, they dated right before Ryan Reynolds.

Speaker 3 19:59

I'm just shaking my head because I don't know one thing about. Leo. The rumors about him I have no finger on any pulse of any celebrities. I really don't. But the stuff you've told me about Leo is brilliant.

Speaker 1 20:11

The rumor mill is like chirping about him and his dating life. I mean, obviously the public thing is that he rarely dates someone over the age of 25. That's his thing, right, although I saw an article today that said Leo breaks his long-standing rule and dates someone over the age of 25 with his 27 year old girlfriend.

Speaker 2 20:31

Yeah, exactly, it's like what yeah, broke a rule.

Speaker 1 20:34

Oh, actually, you know what's funny, josh this is related to Josh and I saw the movie the Materialists. Oh right, um, spoiler, spoiler alert. Didn't love it. The first 30 minutes are great, even maybe the first half.

Speaker 3 20:47

What theater did you go to or did you rent it?

Speaker 1 20:49

We went to Alamo Drafthouse. Have you ever gone?

Speaker 3 20:51

The one by Wrigley. Yeah, I have not been there yet, but they show awesome movies.

Speaker 3 20:57

Oh, it's so great wanted to see tommy boy, but it was like one night only and I think it was may, and it was like sold out immediately I love, I know I wanted to go there, but anyway, they'll, they'll show brothers, don't shake hands. That's so good, it's so quotable. I'm like waiting for the day I can show it to my kids yes, god, it is such a class, or? Like all of those snl movies like wayne's world and all that stuff yeah, I love it.

Speaker 1 21:24

Yeah, it was about dating.

Speaker 1 21:26

I mean maybe we should save it and like watch it before a dating episode but, yeah, she, dakota johnson plays a matchmaker and she meets like a lot of like her clients are a lot of men who are like have these extremely specific criteria for the women and her stance at the beginning of the movie. I won't say more, but it's like you got it, you know, and and then later that like morphs and changes and like the theme of the movie I am on board with. But I don't think the movie did a great job of actually driving it home, got it? They sort of just like wrapped it up in a bow and you're like none of this was earned in this film. You know like none of these relationships feel real. Yeah, it was like pretty hard to like emotionally get there. What do you think, josh?

John Mayer's New Relationship Philosophy

Speaker 4 22:10

there were no scenes yeah and there were barely characters there were barely characters and the camera work was missing was it I don't know, but yeah, not much beautiful.

Speaker 1 22:24

So you're kind of like, just like yeah, pedro, pascal beautiful handsome yeah the other guy was fine

Speaker 2 22:31

it's just eye candy kinda.

Speaker 1 22:33

And then there's like a good concept there and the director apparently is formerly a matchmaker, which is so interesting interesting, they just didn't execute.

Speaker 3 22:42

I think the script.

Speaker 1 22:43

they just didn't put enough TLC in. The acting wasn't bad. Dakota Johnson, her acting I think she can do more than she's doing. I think she's capable of more emotion.

Speaker 3 22:56

I've seen it in movies she's been in, but anyway, Well, all of this is the reason I brought up Blake Lively is because we're doing a pop culture episode.

Speaker 1 23:04

We're doing a pop culture episode. We're going to bring the wise mind to the Justin Baldoni-Blake Lively lawsuit.

Speaker 3 23:13

Which has been going on for a while.

Speaker 1 23:14

Right Now again, I'm at zero of knowledge when it comes to these types of things, one pretty confusing article, and you did send me an article that I actually did read that kind of went through it.

Speaker 2 23:25

And.

Speaker 3 23:25

I'm still confused which is okay.

Speaker 1 23:29

If you had to tell someone what it's about in a couple sentences, what would you say?

Speaker 3 23:34

I would say that Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni made a movie together. Yeah, and Justin Baldoni made a movie together and she sued him for creating a toxic work environment by going off script and in regards to things that he wanted her to do in the film, whether it be sexual things or nudity and then also went off script in the acting, in terms of like trying to I don't know, I don't want to say like force himself onto her, but like yeah, some sort of nefarious acts that were, they did not boundary issues yeah and there was not an intimacy coordinator on this film.

Speaker 1 24:20

Yeah.

Speaker 3 24:21

So Blake Lively went to the studio and wanted to get and reported this and wanted to get an intimacy coordinator.

Speaker 1 24:28

Yeah.

Speaker 3 24:29

And didn't want any retaliation.

Speaker 1 24:31

That's what's in her complaint.

Speaker 3 24:32

That's what's in her complaint, yeah. And didn't want any retaliation.

Speaker 1 24:35

Yes.

Speaker 3 24:37

So then she sued him.

Speaker 1 24:39

Well, I think first.

Speaker 3 24:40

First, it's not like so confusing I I don't know if that part was at first a lawsuit and maybe it was just just the complaint a complaint that she vocalized okay that she vocalized a lot and then he was trying to get ahead of it yeah, because he is a is itself proclaimed feminist yeah and so he got a pr firm to really try to like ramp up some scenarios to like to protect his image, his whatnot yeah, yes, yeah, I think she had that complaint and then he felt like she was like defaming him.

Speaker 1 25:20

So, he put it, I believe then did a defamation suit. Oh, I'm even getting confused.

Speaker 2 25:25

Did she?

Speaker 1 25:26

sue first. Oh no, no, you're right, she did that. And then he hired a PR firm and then she sued him, Then he countersued.

Speaker 3 25:34

Then he countersued.

Speaker 1 25:35

Yeah.

Speaker 3 25:36

But he also sued Ryan Reynolds.

Speaker 1 25:39

Yes.

Speaker 3 25:40

Like he didn't just sue her.

Speaker 1 25:41

Yeah, because that Ryan Reynolds is like the secret. What do they call it? The, you know, like silent party and all this, like in all her meetings demanding certain things on set, ryan Reynolds was there demanding them too.

Speaker 2 25:55

Oh, okay.

Speaker 1 25:56

And he like really, and so this is what was revealed in all of this. There's so much craziness with all of this because, like I think when she first put all this stuff out there, people were like you know, of course, believe women, she, she was let's believe that she was sexually harassed. If she's saying that and I think me included was like that sounds terrible. Like some of the stuff she said is like oh he, for the birthing scene, like instead of hiring a professional actor, he just had his friend do it. So the friend was seeing my body in this compromising position and then later it was found out that that person was a professional actor with many credits, was it was like so many of the claims through the evidence like got debunked a little bit that she made and she was spoiler alert, I'm not really team blake lively but so wait, so she was, but she was putting this out there before suing him.

Speaker 3 26:52

Yes, so she was already putting this out there this information.

Speaker 1 26:56

He did all these bad things. He's bad in all these ways and we need to put all these restrictions on him.

Speaker 3 27:02

But it wasn't just at the studio, she was also putting this just out there to the public in general.

Speaker 1 27:07

Yes, Publicly Okay. And the big thing that like became evidence on both sides is in the. In the midst of these lawsuits there are text messages got subpoenaed. So both of them, justin and blake okay, and they do not look good for her okay because all the things she's claiming are boundary violations in these texts.

Speaker 2 27:29

She's alone oh, like she's like.

Speaker 1 27:31

He came in while I was breastfeeding and in the text message he's like can I come to your trailer to talk about a scene? She's like I'm breastfeeding, but it's fine, come on in and then it's possible that another time he came in when she was breastfeeding and she was upset by that Cause. It was a different time and maybe he it's possible, right, it's like maybe he didn't ask permission.

Speaker 3 27:50

Is it possible that there's a power dynamic that she felt like she couldn't say? Cause the director as well of this film that there's a power dynamic that she felt yeah, even if she said say no. Yeah, even if she said I'm breastfeeding it's fine there's a version of it where I don't know, because I don't know, I didn't know any of this I don't.

Speaker 1 28:10

The hard thing is she is the most. She's the first on the call sheet, she's paid higher than him, higher than anyone else on the film. It's interesting to wonder who really holds the power, because I think what also came through in the text messages was this other theme of she wanted to wrestle creative control of the movie from justin yeah, because there it sounded like there was two different visions.

Speaker 3 28:35

Yeah, and one was what did the article say?

Speaker 1 28:38

one was like he wanted to focus on female trauma.

Speaker 3 28:41

Trauma that's what it was, and then she wanted to focus on triumph. Yes, that was the way it was worded in the article. Yeah, total Female triumph.

Speaker 1 28:49

She didn't like the direction he was going with the movie. Okay, but also he was the director of the movie and she was a paid actor and I think the messages show that, like more and more she's like really trying to get control of the film and change scenes, rewrite scenes, refusing to get those scenes in by the deadline, refusing to release like cuts they had given her until her editor overlooked them, requiring that her editor gets final cut on scenes.

Speaker 3 29:20

So what is her? I again, I'm very lost in all of this, but like what was her motivation? If it's not true, if she looks bad and none of this is really true what was her motivation?

Speaker 1 29:32

So okay. So the theories out there of like why would she do this If this stuff didn't happen? Right, one theory that I think is kind of interesting is she and Justin. This is one theory. She and Justin actually had like pretty intense chemistry and some of their text messages kind of seem like it had pretty intense chemistry and Ryan Reynolds got wind of this and stormed in saying like there need to be more boundaries with him. Oh, and cause he was in this big meeting where he was like you're wrong. My wife's needs to have more creative control of how this goes. Possibly that she said it was him he wanted all that. He's the one driving this.

Speaker 1 30:15

And he stepped in with his like clout and was like absolutely not. And some of the theories like, or the things that back this up, people are saying this isn't direct in a court of law, but like they met on a film set when they were both in other relationships.

Speaker 2 30:29

He basically cheated with her.

Speaker 1 30:31

Yeah, like he was married to scurril Johansson, I believe okay like they cheated and got together like is he paranoid about that?

Speaker 1 30:39

okay they did have pretty good chemistry. Then it became like you're not getting enough control and he's taking over and he's bad and you know he's this bad object to like preserve their relationship potentially, and his role in it. From the text too is like he's more of a silent like participant in this, at least publicly. But I think what you can see is like she over and over in the messages is like he's more of a silent participant in this, at least publicly. But I think what you can see is she over and over in the messages is like no, I kind of want my people to look at this. I actually think we should go in this direction. She forced her clothing line into the movie Her absolutely hideous.

Speaker 1 31:18

I didn't even know she had one. I mean it's so bad Her hair care lineoline, which also she was.

Speaker 1 31:23

you know it's about movie about domestic violence, it's like in some ways it's like a little bit tacky some of the self-promotion in it and then the taylor swift of it all is interesting because in justin baldoni's lawsuit he said like they had to subpoena Taylor Swift's text messages because he claimed she was invoked in Blake saying if you don't let me do this creatively, I'm going to. I think the quote from the text was like set my dragons on you, kind of like Game of Thrones, and the dragon was supposed to be taylor swift and in the lawsuit, like you know, it's a public record that taylor swift sex must, which I'm sure she doesn't want any of that out there.

Speaker 1 32:06

She's like at this point she's pretty private with that stuff and apparently they are like no longer friends and they were like super tight because she does not like how she was like pulled into this and snared in this taylor swift and blake lively are no longer friends. That's what it seems like, and now this is so like gossipy and ridiculous, but travis kelsey unfollowed ryan reynolds on instagram oh which for people this famous.

The Blake Lively-Justin Baldoni Lawsuit

Speaker 3 32:33

That's a careful choice by like a pr team yeah that seems like meaningful to me and none of this has been settled no, his baldoni's lawsuit was dismissed one part of it one part of it was, and he also sued the new york times for the article they put out about it. That was like pretty pro blake lively okay he sued them and then that was dismissed so they both have lawsuits against each other that have not been they've not like been tried, or whatever yeah and one part of hers was dismissed.

Speaker 1 33:03

Like the, she claimed emotional distress. Yeah, that was in the article that was dismissed and that was dismissed by the judge yes right, yeah, because originally they thought maybe her legal team took it out.

Speaker 1 33:14

but then they were like, yeah, the judge, yeah, hmm, like I get the sense. I think blake lively is kind of almost seems like she's campaigning on this, like I'm a voice for, like women who don't have a voice in these like suppressive situations and a lot of the evidence that's come out it's like unclear how suppressive the environment really was. Now is justin baldoni a nightmare himself. Maybe he's Baha'i, he's of the Baha'i faith and he's like pretty like over the top about it. I think a lot of people, most of the people who worked with him, were like, yeah, the religious stuff's like a little much and maybe even the feminist stuff is like a little much.

Speaker 1 33:59

Maybe even the feminist stuff is like a little much. His old podcast co-host, I think, came out somewhere and said like he was like pretty difficult to work with.

Speaker 3 34:07

And she left that podcast, right yeah, whoever that co-host was yeah With him yeah. Because there's been a lot of fallout from this. Yeah For him.

Speaker 1 34:18

Yeah, he was dropped by his agency, which also represent ryan reynolds and blake lively, and they claim they didn't urge it's ari emmanuel, who's ron emmanuel's brother and was played like they portrayed him in entourage.

Speaker 1 34:33

Ari gold is supposed to be him. Um, they claim like we didn't you know, encourage, encourage them to drop him. I sincerely doubt that, but yeah, it's interesting. Now it's also like could Blake Lively be kind of a nightmare and also have been sexually assaulted? Yeah, like totally. It's just like there's so much conflicting evidence on it. I mean, maybe they're both like struggling. When did all of this start? Good question, I remember the movie coming out. I don't know. I guess I could Google it.

Speaker 3 35:08

Because there was also a part of the article that was talking about how they were campaigning for the movie. But like, separately right.

Speaker 1 35:14

Yeah, they kind of wouldn't let Justin take part, or it's not campaigning.

Speaker 3 35:18

What do they call that?

Speaker 1 35:20

Promoting? Yeah, they were promoting it separately, do you?

Speaker 3 35:28

oh, it was released in august, so it's like yeah, probably the end of the summer.

Speaker 1 35:30

This all okay. So a year ago it began. It ends with us. Drama began at the end of the summer.

Speaker 3 35:35

Yeah, well, what compelled you to want me to read this article about? Well, okay, this.

Speaker 1 35:42

Well, what compelled you to?

Speaker 3 35:43

want me to read this article about this.

Speaker 1 35:45

I've, like so many other than you, know that I know nothing about it and so I'm interesting like, even like people's relationship to it. If you tend to like who you tend to believe and like maybe even what's a wise mind, wise minded way, as an observer, to like relate to stuff like this, like celeb drama, like this that's really naming these like serious issues in society, right? Like sexual assault or like smear campaigns against people, someone using their power to take someone down.

Speaker 3 36:18

Yeah, I mean my initial reaction from not knowing anything about it and for some reason it keeps like in my mind sticking and I don't know enough about anything, including the business of making movies. Why is there not an intimacy coordinator mandated on any film? So that that to me like makes me think that falls on whoever's financing the film, the director of the film? I just feel like that.

Speaker 1 36:43

Yeah, it's a good question.

Speaker 3 36:45

Which I don't know for some reason, and again, I don't know anything about her, or I didn't know anything about these text messages either. I'm not saying I'm on a side or anything, but that to me is just like in this day and age, if you're going to make a movie, that requires some sort of intimacy of any kind, why is there not somebody there to hold people accountable?

Speaker 1 37:05

Yeah, I don't know. Well, you know what's funny that you bring that up. That's lately become like a hot topic. Oh okay, because like in the past, like 10 years, like that's been a thing, these intimacy coordinators, very recently people have been kind of against them, people who make films now the guy you know, anora, did you see, anora?

Speaker 1 37:26

no so anora kind of famously didn't have one, which anora is about, a like a stripper who also is a sex worker, a young girl, a male director who's older, and he came out about making a statement about intimacy coordinators Cause, like the young actress, she was like oh, what's his name?

Speaker 2 37:52

That guy Uh.

Speaker 1 37:52

Florida project.

Speaker 4 37:53

I know I suddenly can't think of it. Something.

Speaker 2 37:56

Oh, I saw the.

Speaker 1 37:56

Florida project Peterson, Um no Fuck.

Speaker 3 38:04

You saw that trailer. No, I saw the florida project that was with willem defoe right, yeah, that was a good movie.

Speaker 1 38:07

Oh he's, he makes great movies this guy but he was like god, what I could google it, but um, I forget his name, um, but she was like we talked about it and sean baker, sean baker we talked about it together and decided not to use one and he has this quote that, like people have talked about where he's like I think we're overthinking this and I kind of took offense to that because I was like the the optics of this don't look great, that you're this man in his 40s and she's in her early 20s playing a sex worker and you're watching right, and he's like it was a close set. Just me, my wife, his wife, helped co-direct the movie, I think, or at least co-write it or whatever, and the actress and then the actor like that, like that's private enough that the actress has enough power in that dynamic to really say her actual thoughts on it yeah maybe, maybe those are her actual thoughts, but it's it's pretty hard to ascertain that.

Speaker 1 39:02

I I found it like troublesome that he he was like making the statement of like, if she said that like listen, we're overthinking this, it's a sex scene. I feel more comfortable having sex without the coordinator it's having simulated sex without the coordinator yeah and gwyneth paltrow came out and talked about this. She's always out there talking about something and she do. You know that she filmed a movie recently where she has a bunch of sex scenes with timothy chalamet I did not know, that isn't that wild what's the power dynamic there?

Speaker 1 39:35

I shouldn't say it's wild, because it's like there's age gap, relationships and whatever, but he just is so young looking he looks like 12 yeah, um, and she's like I think 52 or so interesting, but but it might be cool, it might be really interesting.

Speaker 1 39:50

Um, but she, they, they had an intimacy coordinator on the movie and she kind of scoffed at it. She was like back in my day you told you take your clothes off and go. She's like, so I kind of scoffed at it. She was like back in my day you told me to take your clothes off and go.

Speaker 1 40:03

She's like so I kind of got this. Thanks but no thanks was kind of her response. And then she made this joke where she's like my mindset is, listen, I'm 100,000 years old, you're 12, we're just gonna get through this and do it, we'll just go from there. And I think it's like We'll just go from there. And I think it's like I understand she was like relating her experience, but I think that sends a pretty weird message.

Speaker 3 40:25

Well, yeah, I mean, I think it's one thing to for a person to be okay with not having it, but to then generalize it as if this is the way it should be.

Speaker 1 40:34

Right.

Speaker 3 40:34

Where it's kind of like I think we're overthinking this and it's like, well, that's that's your opinion, that's this. And it's like, well, that's that's your opinion, that's fine, but somebody else might not think that. Or yeah, back in my day and so, because I used to do it like this and there were no coordinators- yeah then I'm okay with this.

Speaker 3 40:51

Okay, well, that's your take on it, but I I think it gets right. To me it's like yeah, I guess if there was an agreement and everybody was fine with it, maybe that's a little bit of a different scenario, yeah and it might be a more responsible quote for her to say.

Speaker 1 41:07

Like you know, I decided because I have a ton of experience, not even being offered one that I'm used to, that in my experience and I chose not to do it right versus back in my day we were like pretty cool about this when she was also sexually assaulted by harvey weinstein like it's just like irresponsible right to put that out there.

Speaker 1 41:25

She has such a huge fan base. I I think it's irresponsible. And it's like I think it's irresponsible of sean baker. You know it's cool to not have one. It sounds like a creepy old man like pressuring people. You know you don't need one, right, you know a little bit. And it's like it probably should be the standard. I agree, I think people think it's like it's unnatural. It's like yeah, it is, and it's safe, like do we prefer what's safe or what's like best creatively?

Speaker 3 41:55

but it's also. Oh yeah, wait, what did you just say? It's it not?

Speaker 1 42:00

Not cool.

Speaker 3 42:01

No, what did you say before that Like it's not organic or it's not?

Speaker 1 42:04

Yeah, it's not natural.

Speaker 3 42:06

But it isn't. It's a movie, it's a movie. So that's the thing where it's kind of like this isn't natural, like you're playing a part Like this is a character and I don't want to take anything away from like filmmakers wanting to, we wanting to, we're sitting with one right, but, josh um, I don't want to take anything away from like how realistic you want your creative process to be because, yeah, that I get the idea of that but, also at the same time. It is not real right, so I don't know yeah that's just anyway.

Speaker 3 42:39

That part of the piece just kind of like has stuck with me throughout all of the confusion. Yeah. It's just like why and again I don't have enough detail Was it talked about at all? Was there an agreement to not have one? Why was there?

Speaker 2 42:53

not one to begin with.

Speaker 3 42:54

If this is a film that specifically is going to have scenes that you know are going to involve. I mean, I don't know, I didn't see the movie, but it sounds like scenes that are going to involve sex or you know intimacy.

Speaker 1 43:09

So totally, yeah, you know that is a really good question. I think one thing along those lines too, that was reported. Now I'm trying to remember if this was in the actual text messages, but this doesn't look good for Justin Baldoni. According to Blake Lively, I think he wanted her to be nude in the birthing scenes and she said, you know, I don't think this character would be nude, like I don't want that, I want there to be a gown. And he was like really, he's, like I think it's really natural for women to be nude, like my wife, they put her a gown on her and she like ripped it off and you know, and Blake Lively's had four children.

Speaker 1 43:56

So, it was a little bit level where I was like, if that really happened, that's pretty inappropriate for him to tell her, like, what women giving birth do when the woman's done it four times Right. So I don't think he has a clean slate, nor do I think she does. I think there's a blame game going on when this was maybe like a pretty volatile set where people were having trouble seeing each other's like vision and also even like each other's like boundaries, because he probably needed boundaries of like you're an actress in this film, not the director, and she needed boundaries.

Speaker 1 44:33

Of like I need a fucking intimacy coordinator. And like, if you're gonna likeise that can't happen in like physically vulnerable situations, unless she reflects on it and thinks it can, yeah, so maybe I mean maybe a wise-minded view is because I guess I'm I think I'm like getting biased toward his side, because a part of me just like thinks that that another thing that's happened is like, in the midst of this lawsuit, like old videos of interviews of her have come out, with her being like pretty rude to interviewers and like having bad behavior and totally outside circumstances okay like she recently announced that she was pregnant oh, I read that in the article.

Speaker 1 45:16

Yeah, I saw this video and the interviewer was like congratulations on your little bump, and she was like congratulations on your little bump right and was like so offended she had publicly announced that she was pregnant yeah and the woman it was like. And so the woman, like, put out there this video uh-huh and I think it was like. It seemed like blake levy was making a stand of like you shouldn't comment on women's bodies, kind of what we were talking about, talking about but also had like way too hostile of a response to that.

Speaker 3 45:43

To something she had publicly acknowledged. Okay, and so all these videos are resurfacing to show what to like do kind of like a character assessment of her as like a person.

Speaker 1 45:53

Yeah, Like she's bad.

Speaker 3 45:55

Okay.

Speaker 1 45:56

And then I think then she again countersued for like a smear campaign that she claims he did like he, his pr team filmed those videos and like you know, resurfaced them, resurfaced them and he was like no, he's like people just did that, who knows oh, so he didn't, his team didn't do that no, or they're saying they didn't do that they yeah but she's saying they did she's saying it was like a carefully manipulated smear campaign.

Speaker 3 46:24

So much back and forth, these two totally.

Speaker 1 46:26

He's like you're smear campaign against me. She's like you smear campaigned against me. Wow, it's very tit for tat. Yeah, I mean, maybe that's like the shortest summary of it. It's like this tit for tat and maybe the core issue is like who wants creative control?

Speaker 3 46:43

this project.

Speaker 1 46:44

I have not watched the film. I felt guilty about that before we started this podcast.

Speaker 3 46:48

I'm like I should have watched it yeah, no, the film got not good reviews yeah okay, and all of this happened before it came out.

Speaker 1 46:58

Yeah, because they were promoting it separately yeah, I think like, so, like this started okay. Yeah, I mean, it had this massive release which is probably in large part to her fame she's incredibly famous. So, like I guess it's like when someone's that famous, I could see them really feeling an ownership over the project. If it's like the only reason anyone cares about this is because my name's attached, it would probably be really hard not to get like really absorbed in that.

Speaker 3 47:31

Yeah, I mean, I don't know anything about anybody and I don't know who he is, so you sent me an article about two people and I'm like yeah, of course I know who Blake Lively is Right, she about two people, and if I'm like, yeah, of course I know who blake lively is right.

Speaker 3 47:42

Like I don't mega famous, yes, like I don't know who, I've never heard of this guy before in my life. Yeah, again, I'm starting at zero. So people are probably like listening to this and like do you live under a rock, which I kind of do. I mean, I don't really follow this, but like yeah, if you just put those two names out there. It's like, of course I know who blake lively is right.

Speaker 1 47:57

That's sort of why the argument that like he was so hard for her to like stand up for herself with it, just in the text messages it doesn't look like that yeah, they didn't put those in the article, did they?

Speaker 3 48:10

around no, but he made this website which they referenced okay, the article where he published the whole like complaint oh, and the timeline, that's right, the pdf of that right and it's like 228 pages.

Speaker 1 48:23

I listened to a podcast for this woman's like. I read it. Wow, this is like reading someone's thesis, like crazy stuff yeah and she basically was like it's pretty damning for her that's why he made the website. Yeah it's so interesting. I think he's probably annoying. I think she's annoying.

Speaker 3 48:45

I just sum it all up is annoying everybody's annoying if you were to sum it all up and well how wise, is it to get really wrapped up in these stories?

Speaker 1 48:53

yeah, I mean that is, and how much time.

Speaker 3 48:55

How wise is it to consume a lot of time following this stuff?

Speaker 1 48:58

yeah, for me, like and I actually said this, I was getting my haircut today and I said to my hairdresser shout out, megan chanel. Um, I said to her I was like, honestly, it's like so relieving sometimes to like bury myself in this instead of the real news yeah because the real news is really hard to contend with yeah and I like, if I shift over to apple news, I like feel like my heart is like fluttering in a way that's like so uncomfortable in a way that it's never in my lifetime been before maybe with covid but just like scary.

Speaker 1 49:32

And then to just like think of something that's so inconsequential to me right is probably like feels like a safe space. Now it also is such like negative vibes all over the place. So it's like why am I like burying myself in something so negative?

Speaker 2 49:46

still.

Speaker 1 49:47

But I guess it's like negative and also like I feel bad saying it's trivial Cause like someone's talking about sexual assault, which is not trivial, but the part of it that's trivial feels like the blame game piece.

Speaker 3 49:58

Right, yeah, the back and forth, it's like good, clean gossip kind of for me yeah I think that's perfect now.

Speaker 1 50:06

Is that wise? Like, could I also find solace from like the news cycle in like, like the books I'm reading?

Speaker 3 50:14

yeah, you know, like well I mean you couldn't find solace in just the news? No, nobody could find solace never it's not, I mean, it did I will say, reading the article, as confusing as it was, I mean it had me like mindful, like I was trying to really pay attention to it yeah, like I was trying to really follow the the timeline and that's not to say anything about the person who wrote it.

Speaker 3 50:35

I'm sure it makes sense with people who, uh, maybe have a little bit of an understanding or had been following this just a little bit more than what I had. So it was definitely interesting and had me kind of like, oh okay, and I could see why it would take you out of. I mean, it took me out of thinking about what I was thinking about because I was like oh, this is interesting.

Speaker 1 50:56

The hell's this.

Speaker 3 50:58

Yeah, what is this? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think that there's like a wisdom and just like immersing yourself in something that, like you said, is just inconsequential like I think there is a wisdom in that. Yeah, at times, just like really throwing yourself into something that doesn't really matter to you necessarily yeah, but could have like interesting themes about like social relationships for sure work relationships dynamics, all that yeah.

Speaker 1 51:23

Power yeah, all that yeah feminism, or we were talking about this, like do sometimes people invoke feminist principles to their own narcissistic ends? You know, or am I being toxic, even suggesting that maybe it's? It's curious, any thoughts you had, josh, as we were talking with us I think it's wise, I think it's really wise, I think it's.

Speaker 4 51:47

It's like, uh, it's like asking me if it's wise to watch a horror movie, you know yeah I think, if it's something you find engrossing that you like to immerse yourself in and uh you you know you can find presence in it. Following all the nooks and crannies, it's like a brain game.

Speaker 2 52:06

Yeah.

Speaker 4 52:06

It's like doing a crossword puzzle and, like you know, it's funny Right and it's fun.

Speaker 3 52:16

Yeah, like I feel like this was wise to like me not be informed at all about it and have you guide me through it, because it feels like, oh, this is something I've never thought about before so it makes me like really want to pay attention to it and try to like be as objective as as possible yeah, yeah, which I think is a good, it's like a thought, exercise it, it's like it's a good exercise mentally for me to try to just stand back from this like almost like a 10,000 foot view and like read the article and your other things that you've read about it and kind of be like yeah, we're.

Speaker 3 52:53

What do I think about this?

Speaker 1 52:55

Yeah, and I mean what this reminds me of too. I don't know if either of you were at all I think the answer is going to be no but were at all dialed into the Johnny Depp Amber Heard of it all?

Speaker 3 53:08

No, I know that was happening. I knew, yeah, so I actually knew that was happening. Okay, more than probably this. Yeah, okay, but again, like I, know those two, obviously Johnny De depp, but I actually know who she is as well. I again, I don't know who this guy really was. Um right, right and that was like on tv, like that, that went through right. Like that, yeah, the cord and everything, yeah, whatever yeah, that was wild.

Speaker 1 53:35

Again, they both have a lot of struggles, but he like definitely it was so interesting because he also did seem kind of like he was doing a performance a bit, because he really was painting her like she's ridiculous and she did some ridiculous things. But I think he was also like a severe drug addict and pretty abusive and I don't know. They both. I hope they get the help they need tough stuff, but yeah, yeah, it's interesting, you sent me this article because the the other.

Speaker 3 54:09

It must have been a couple weeks ago. I was like scrolling through, like netflix or I don't know some streaming service, and I was like I don't have anything to watch and I just randomly saw a movie and I clicked on it and blakeively was in it. It was the town.

Speaker 1 54:23

Yes, she was in there, yeah.

Speaker 3 54:26

Well, you know, I didn't even get through it all. But I was like God, I remember watching this and I was like maybe I enjoyed this a little bit, I don't really remember but also John Hamm was in it. So I was like, oh yeah, john Hamm's in this. So I just clicked on it and I watched like maybe half of it or something like that, but yeah, she was in it.

Speaker 1 54:44

There were rumors around that movie that she was being like inappropriate with Ben Affleck when he was married to. Jennifer.

Speaker 3 54:51

Garner oh.

Speaker 1 54:53

And, like Reese Witherspoon, I think, came out and said something about it, or no. Maybe she was saying it about Jennifer Aniston or no. Maybe she was saying it about Jennifer Aniston, but that rumor does exist that Blake Lively was kind of courting Ben Affleck.

Speaker 2 55:08

Oh.

Speaker 1 55:09

Yeah, there's maybe a little bit of an open secret that she's kind of like that on her films, like wants everyone to be kind of obsessed with her. No, who doesn't want everyone obsessed with them?

Speaker 3 55:20

You have your finger on the pulse of all of this.

Speaker 1 55:23

I'm so deep in this.

Speaker 3 55:24

I don't know, I find it so interesting yeah, how long has she been married to ryan reynolds? Great question.

Speaker 1 55:31

She has four kids with him it's gotta be maybe 10 years, maybe a little dead pool himself. Yeah, I think he's about to have a fall from grace he's like made of money too right, doesn't he want a soccer team?

Speaker 3 55:39

and he just sold that. Yeah, I think he's like a fall from grace, he's like made of money too right doesn't he want a soccer team and he just sold that yeah, I think he's like a billionaire didn't he sell that like mobile phone company or?

Speaker 1 55:48

something. Yeah, yes, yeah, they're pretty wealthy. They were saying today. They were saying on the another podcast I listened to they were saying a big part of the friendship between taylor swift and blake live. It was like Taylor has very few people that actually feel like they understand like her extreme level of like wealth and fame.

Speaker 2 56:07

And it felt like relieving.

Speaker 1 56:09

You know, with a friend like that, you don't sense that they're like just trying to get something out of you.

Speaker 2 56:13

Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 56:15

And cut to like she's trying to get her into a lawsuit. Like clearly that wasn't true, but I think that was. They were almost just like kind of theorizing that and I was like that makes sense because like I mean, there's so few people on her, there's no one on taylor swift's level, but someone close how much money was she suing justin baldoni for?

Speaker 3 56:36

do do we remember?

Gossip vs. Real News

Speaker 1 56:37

god, that is a great question. Well, that's also something she was criticized for, because taylor swift sued people in a similar way for like a dollar yeah, just to make a statement Because that was my next point was like if they are, if she is so wealthy. Yeah.

Speaker 3 56:55

And then I don't really know what I'm doing for loss of wages? Okay, yeah, right, I don't know enough about it, but if it's, yeah, if it's true if it truly is like you're looking for damages, whatever the damages are financially, because you did lose out on something, like absolutely, but also like how much and right Is this more about? Like this person you feel is truly guilty and shouldn't engage in this behavior or moving forward.

Speaker 1 57:24

I don't really know, what I'm saying, but like there seem I haven't yeah well, it's also like sure. You have a right to claim loss of wages. Sue for them, but you're not going to win any awards there. Any, any. You're not going to look magnanimous. Right and I think Taylor Swift is a genius with stuff like that, where it's like I'm just going to make an example of this guy and get no money from him and help people realize he's an effing creep Right, and it's not about my financial need.

Speaker 3 57:52

My mind just gave me the information. You'll probably know about this because if this is real, or if I dreamt this up, didn't Gwyneth Paltrow get sued for like being skied into or something like?

Speaker 1 58:04

that Like okay, and she countersued, but for nothing.

Speaker 3 58:07

Yeah, right, okay, that's what. That's what I'm thinking about.

Speaker 1 58:09

Yeah, someone skied into her. Oh yeah, okay, somebody skied into her. That was great.

Speaker 3 58:16

She was on her skis in the middle of the hill and didn't get out of the way, or something like that yeah totally Great lawsuit Amazing.

Speaker 4 58:22

Was she skiing? Skiing, not at that moment.

Speaker 2 58:26

Skiing.

Speaker 1 58:27

Josh's friend wrote a letter from camp where he told his mom at camp they were skiing, but he wrote it skiing, so we always call it skiing. Now that's awesome, oh my God. Yeah, that was crazy. And she, like people really followed that lawsuit too, cause they were looking at like her fashion and her glasses and like, and I think she did like a pretty good. She handled that pretty well.

Speaker 1 58:48

Um there's so many things I like about her, but like the the comments you made about the intimacy court, I didn't like it. I didn't think it was like super responsible to promote that people don't have one.

Speaker 1 58:56

It's like it should be up to whoever the person is, and and it should be the default, and it should be something people refuse rather than you have to, like, beg for it, because that's given what we know now about these rooms in hollywood or rooms in any industry there's so much abuse of power or rooms for squares john mayer I couldn't help myself.

Speaker 4 59:25

Is that the title track?

Speaker 1 59:27

that was the room for squares was the title of the album.

Speaker 3 59:30

I think, yeah, his first, I mean I honestly spoiler alert.

Speaker 1 59:33

I like that album oh did you yeah, yeah yeah, why? Why Georgia?

Speaker 3 59:39

I think there are.

Speaker 1 59:40

Yeah, you can like pop music and not the person who makes it. It's like, honestly, if you were in this room right now, would we like him? We?

Speaker 2 59:49

probably all like him Speak for yourself, but none of us would want to do it.

Speaker 1 59:51

None, none of us would want to do it.

Speaker 4 59:53

What makes you so confident? We'd all like him.

Speaker 1 59:55

Actually, you're right, it's very possible. We wouldn't, yeah, I mean also, I'm so biased against him at this point, but once he starts strumming, then we all yeah, we're crossing. Room for squares. Okay, do we need a? How wise is this?

Speaker 2 1:00:12

We did it.

Speaker 1 1:00:13

Should we just count that?

Speaker 4 1:00:17

How wise is it to go sking?

Speaker 1 1:00:27

Sking, skinging, sking, sking. It's very. How wise is it to be the shit? Vulnerability is the shit. How wise is it the shit that's awesome vulnerability is the shit. I was like someone help him, like just help him off the ledge.

Speaker 3 1:00:44

The social source didn't he take himself off social media a bunch of times because he just says dumb stuff like?

Reflections on Pop Culture Drama

Speaker 1 1:00:51

literally, I think we talked about this. He said I don't even know if I should say that maybe we should edit this out. Edit it out. He said he basically made this really inappropriate comment, suggesting that he only likes to date white women, I mean it was crazy. It was much more vulgar than that what he said. Jeez, I can't believe I'm this pod. I feel like I don't want to say it. I don't want to like even give voice to that oh, like you haven't said it or you don't want to say what you know.

Speaker 1 1:01:15

I know the quote, but oh, but what? You just said is fine I guess I mean it's not fine that he said that, but that's what it's not fine that he said.

Speaker 4 1:01:23

He said a more vulgar version yeah we don't think it's fine, to be clear no whatever he said or didn't say hope you all fully understand what we're referring to.

Speaker 2 1:01:37

You can google it continuum clarity, I'm just gonna keep naming his albums is he got?

Speaker 1 1:01:44

we got to name one of these dead albums. I saw him perform at the grateful dead.

Speaker 1 1:01:49

Oh, yeah, because he toured yeah right yeah, he often plays the jerry garcia yeah and, to be honest, like I saw trey anastasio play the in the dead 50 tour, I saw trey anastasio do that role. This is not going to be a popular opinion, but it's how I feel. I preferred him. He sounded like jerry and john mayer sounds like john mayer I like trey. I mean, they're both amazing guitarists yeah, and his voice was just a little more like Jerry.

Speaker 3 1:02:18

Yeah.

Speaker 1 1:02:19

I love Jerry so much.

Speaker 3 1:02:21

When I saw the dead, who was it? I saw him with Joan Osborne on vocals which she was amazing. She's amazing.

Speaker 1 1:02:32

And what is his name?

Speaker 3 1:02:33

Warren Haynes.

Speaker 1 1:02:35

Yeah.

Speaker 3 1:02:35

Yeah, he was doing Jerry's bit oh that's when was that? A long time ago.

Speaker 1 1:02:42

Oh, I was in college.

Speaker 3 1:02:43

It was at Joliet Raceway, nice. And the lot was pretty epic. There was a lot of burnouts.

Speaker 1 1:02:51

Yeah, a lot of really nice people. Oh, absolutely, yeah, like extremely friendly, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 1:02:57

And a lot of cassette tapes at that time. Yeah, yeah, and a lot of cassette tapes. At that time you could get any show, and Bob Dylan was there too.

Speaker 2 1:03:05

Oh.

Speaker 3 1:03:05

Sounded terrible I mean yeah.

Speaker 1 1:03:07

Yeah, it's a real toss up, it's terrible, yeah, but yeah, that was yeah.

Speaker 3 1:03:13

Joan Osborne was great.

Speaker 2 1:03:14

Oh.

Speaker 3 1:03:14

I love her.

Speaker 4 1:03:15

Yeah.

Speaker 3 1:03:16

Anyway.

Speaker 2 1:03:17

Okay, yeah, anyway, okay, thanks everyone, if you want to um if you want to find me, you can um type in. You can't my website.

Speaker 1 1:03:25

You can't, you simply can't. My memories escape me. But you can go to my website at kkpsychotherapycom? Um and contact me on the inquiry page there or inquire me on the contact page.

Speaker 3 1:03:38

I like it. Inquire. Inquire. Yes, buttsbutzjonathan at gmailcom. Email me your questions or anything or thoughts or anything, or topics too. Topics, too, or even more articles that we might read.

Speaker 1 1:03:51

Yeah, yeah, because we like to know what you all want to hear about.

Speaker 3 1:03:55

Right, or hear us blather about yeah.

Speaker 1 1:03:59

Bloviate about.

Speaker 4 1:04:06

Josh, hear about right or hear us blather. Yeah, we'll be Josh. Josh bear films calm. I'm Josh bear films calm.

Speaker 2 1:04:11

J-o-s-h-b-a-y-e-r films like the films calm. It's my website for the music yes, blanket for it.

Speaker 1 1:04:17

Thank you, take care everybody yeah, we'll see you next time. Bye. The wise mind happy hour podcast is for entertainment purposes only, not to be treated as medical advice. If you are struggling with your mental health, please seek medical attention or counseling.