The Wise Mind Happy Hour
Two therapists musing about the idea of an inner wise mind and how to connect with this psychic space in different contexts.
The Wise Mind Happy Hour
SLEEPING WISE - getting into sleep hygiene
We all sleep...there's no getting around it. But IS IT WISE? Most definitely. From sleep masks to mouth tape to the controversial nature of alarm clocks, we tackle it all.
- music by blanket forts -
Okay, welcome to the wise mind. Happy hour.
Speaker 2:I'm Kelly and I'm John.
Speaker 1:Yes and welcome to this week's episode. We're gonna be talking about sleep hygiene today, but first we're to check in.
Speaker 2:That's a real snooze yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm like, really, it's going to be a real snooze.
Speaker 2:No, it's so important to talk about that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, we figured like it's something that comes up like over and over in my work as a therapist questions about sleep, all different kinds of. I mean, there's like endless issues with sleep.
Speaker 2:A lot of issues Out there experiences of sleep.
Speaker 1:And sleep lot of their experiences of sleep, and sleep even comes up in therapy with like dreams and you know all this stuff. So we figured we'd talk about it, give our takes on it, which, you know, don't have to necessarily even be the company line, it could be just our own experiences with treating it, treating issues with sleep. But first, of course, we're gonna check in what's new with you, john, what's been going on um?
Speaker 2:good question. I had a weekend of I was actually kid less whoa. I know I lost them. Put them under the no yeah totally, totally no, we uh, they did, grandpa, and grandma camp so they got to hang out with their grandparents for a few days.
Speaker 2:So it was like a real, just like break from them, which was luxurious in certain ways that was the word that Sarah described it because on Friday I came home from work and I was like throwing the laundry in and I started to do the dishes and then I like stood still for a second and I was like what am I doing?
Speaker 1:Yeah, like toss the laundry out the window, I know.
Speaker 2:So I ended up dropping everything I was doing. I literally crawled into bed and Sarah got home from work, work and I was like she was like hello, like where are you? And I was like I'm in bed and she's like what are you doing? I was like resting, and I was like you want to come in and rest? And she was like yeah. So she came into bed and was like we were reading together and then we ended up falling asleep, taking a nap, oh, and that was her.
Speaker 1:After that had happened, her description of it was like that was luxurious, because it just never happens with kids, it's like you're running around constantly, so yeah, and probably you get home and it's like immediately check in it's like dinner a million things.
Speaker 2:Can you play this game during the school year? It's like homework and you know all stuff that needs to get done. It was almost like I my muscle memory kicked in when I got home even when the kids weren't there and I started like what?
Speaker 1:do?
Speaker 2:I gotta do right doing, doing, doing and it was friday and and it was like a nice moment of just slow it down for a second, like what are you rushing to do? Yeah, so, um, but it was nice. And then we ended up going to one of her co-workers housewarming parties, which was lovely live dj and housework housewarming.
Speaker 2:It was incredible and the dj was good yeah wow, you're like it was steve aoki, it was literally danger mouse no, it was yeah um, it was great because he set it up, and whenever I think of DJ, my mind always goes to what I would have liked to be as a DJ, so I'm thinking of crates with records and that's so antiquated kind of Very very digital.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's my thinking, yeah.
Speaker 2:Because I'm nostalgic for that. But it was totally digital and what was funny is that the housewarming party there was like little, little kids that are like toddlers and like nine months, you know, and DJ is playing the music and you know it's not too loud, and everything. And then finally at one point he like look, did you get looked over? I mean, he was like are there any kids here anymore?
Speaker 2:And I was like uh, let me like kendrick and I like looked I was like no, actually not. And literally it was like five clicks of volume immediately going into.
Speaker 1:Uh yeah, like the rap yeah genre. It was great. I love that. That's fun. He's like let's lose these kids.
Speaker 2:Oh, and guess where they got food from to cater it don't tell me yes, this is a throwback for me and you oh, chipotle chipotle oh, oh, my god, I used to be the chipotle queen, the queen of chipotle, over here. Basically, yeah, right in that place, yeah like they had these great hors d'oeuvres and charcuterie board out and then they were like oh yeah, you know, don't fill up because we got dinner coming, chipotle. I was like what?
Speaker 1:wow, a dj and catered by Chipotle Right, so fun, they went all out.
Speaker 2:It was great. So much fun Wow.
Speaker 1:That is really fun.
Speaker 2:And a room full of social workers, because it was Sarah's coworkers.
Speaker 1:Wow, so great Love it. Was it in the city?
Speaker 2:It was in. Yes, I believe it might have been like Jefferson Park.
Speaker 1:Oh cool, very cool, yeah, so a little bit further like north and west yeah but anyway cool.
Speaker 2:Wow, yeah, so it was a nice break, but certainly on by sunday we were let's go get those boys, because we missed that. Yeah, I'm sure by the end of like three days, yeah, what have you been up to?
Speaker 1:um, we had a pretty chill weekend.
Speaker 2:We saw jurassic park in 3d do you ever see 3d movies I like when I was a kid. I think that was the last time I saw a 3d yeah, it's pretty fun. What it was pretty fun what made you want to see it in 3d, or was that the only option?
Speaker 1:I saw. No, no, I was like literally 50 bucks a person. It was crazy how expensive it is to see a movie in 3d it was probably 25 a person have they improved the quality of the glasses? Yeah, they're like fully glasses.
Speaker 2:Okay, they're not like the paper with no or the cardboard.
Speaker 3:They're like like ray bands they feel like oh, it's on your head do you give them back?
Speaker 1:then you don't have to, you can, there's not much you can yeah, I guess in the time post covet. Yeah, people don't do that, but um we both like, had moments where we were like, where my glasses like right when you get them you know, it's like sounds intense.
Speaker 2:Yeah, was it like dinosaurs coming literally out?
Speaker 1:you, yeah it was that part. That's why we wanted to do it in 3d. We're like it's probably gonna be bad, but let's go see a summer movie like a blockbuster in 3d, like let's have like a really crazy mainstream, just like fun at the movies experience and it was great, we went to big star. Before talk about mainstream, what theater did you go to um the AMC River East?
Speaker 2:Oh right.
Speaker 1:Downtown Because they have the 3D. Wow yeah they didn't have. I thought they had it at that City North theater but AMC City North, but they don't have it.
Speaker 2:Who's even in that? Scarlett Johansson, scar Jo, yeah, she's like main character.
Speaker 1:Who else? This guy, jonathan Bailey, who's from Bridgerton, he's been in a few things. He's like really hunky, hunky guy. It was full of hunks, right, all hunks, mahershala.
Speaker 2:Ali hunky, but just hunky in 3D.
Speaker 1:I mean even hunkier. Even hunkier I mean Scar Jo, I mean she's gorgeous.
Speaker 2:Yeah, hunky door Really.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she really it's like I said to josh. I was like, do you find her attractive? And he was like yeah, and I was like she's just so beautiful, like it never changes she's husband material totally she's so great, she's good. Yeah, he's like pretty good.
Speaker 2:I'm trying to think of the other, like what is the other blockbuster? The summer superman, yeah, the soup they are pushing that superman movie and it's like the hundredth superman. You're like, okay, I guess yeah, I haven't been to the movies in a while, but I was trying to think of, like what I've been seeing on my news feed of like what are the summer.
Speaker 1:I feel like those two I mean those were the big ones that on every like movie theater's website it was like do you want to see superman?
Speaker 2:like that was kind of the thing isn't there also, like a racing movie with brad pitt?
Speaker 1:oh, f1 yes, but that almost feels like slightly more artsy does it?
Speaker 3:oh, not really. I know we definitely. We gotta go see the new ari aster this weekend oh, what's that one called? I don't know, but uh eddington, eddington I would see that famous director of bow is afraid famous director jous director Josh loves Ari Aster.
Speaker 1:Did you ever watch?
Speaker 3:Ari Aster, I love, bo is Afraid.
Speaker 1:Did you ever see the scary one with Toni Collette?
Speaker 2:Hereditary. Yes, I did see that one and.
Speaker 1:Bo is Afraid, and then he did Midsommar.
Speaker 2:Okay, I only saw Hereditary.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you never saw Midsommar.
Speaker 1:No, hon, I never saw either, but I listened to them. Right Shout out to another podcast called Too Scary. Didn't Watch where they will watch a scary movie and then describe it scene for scene for you, if you're too scared to watch it, then you'll learn about it.
Speaker 3:And I listened to Hereditary and I listened to Midsommar.
Speaker 2:What a concept.
Speaker 3:And yeah, Hereditary. When they said she was like cutting her own neck with a piano wire I was like so glad I didn't see this. Hereditary is my least favorite of the three hot take. I feel like it's probably a lot of people's favorite it's it's kooky. I think it's the most like standard horror. I think the other two have a way of getting under your skin in a way that's like a little more like harder to pin down, like it's like I've never quite seen anything that made me feel like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but Josh loves a weird movie.
Speaker 3:There's imagery from that movie that haunted both of us, and I'm not going to say anything for people who haven't seen it.
Speaker 1:And it's not your standard. Oh, Beau is afraid it's not your standard shit.
Speaker 3:No, you wouldn't.
Speaker 1:I feel like if he even told you what had happened, you wouldn't be freaked out, unless you saw the scene.
Speaker 3:It's the way it's done.
Speaker 1:We can say there's someone who drinks a paint can.
Speaker 3:And it's like the most disturbing thing I've ever seen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's tough. It's a tough movie. But that movie also is really kooky. It's kind of half dream.
Speaker 3:Like a David Lynch kind of.
Speaker 1:Doesn't really make any sense, joaquin Phoenix. The theme of it is enmeshment with your mom, actually.
Speaker 3:Jewish.
Speaker 1:Probably they never say that he's Jewish, but Wait.
Speaker 2:Which movie are we talking about?
Speaker 1:right now. Now we're talking about, bo is Afraid.
Speaker 2:That's what we're talking about, okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That is the enmeshment. Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:Got it, got it not. That, not the new one that's coming out. No, the new one has emma stone and joaquin phoenix as well, paddington and pedro pascal, who's legally required to be in every movie. I think, at this point, why not? Why not? He's great once per capita, yeah wait, did we talk on the podcast about the materialists?
Speaker 3:yeah, yes, we did, we talked about it.
Speaker 1:And the substance god, we haven't even been doing the pod that long and I can't remember what we talked about.
Speaker 2:I know that's so sad. Well, I forgot that we on the text chain. I forgot that we talked about baseball, yeah, but, as I said, I'm glad we did because it sucks.
Speaker 1:It totally sucks.
Speaker 2:Pedro Pascal is best friends with, and now I can't think of his name.
Speaker 1:Someone famous?
Speaker 2:Yes, he went to Juilliard with.
Speaker 1:Jeremy Strong no, no no, no, no it's.
Speaker 2:Why can I not think of the actor's name? He's in like the Dune movie he played, like the dad Timot timothy, oh, no, that he played the dad, oscar isaac yes, I think they're like best friends.
Speaker 2:Oh my god, hunk after hunk yeah wow, they're best friends I think they've like known each other because they like came up kind of in in the same time time frame of like not being famous and that's how ann hathaway and jeremy strong are yeah they're friends from, I think, college or whatever gotcha no, what I was gonna say is he went to uh oscar I'm just referring to him as oscar.
Speaker 1:Uh went to juilliard with jessica, jessica, yeah, and they're really good scenes from a marriage. You know we should watch scenes from a marriage for the pod because I think it's like a very interesting look. Is it ingmar bergman?
Speaker 3:uh, you're, you're stumping the film although recently, I think it might be because that was remade right, you know what's funny?
Speaker 1:like I just said that, but I just saw an article. Stalin skarsgard worked with ingmar bergman and he just came out saying he was a Nazi, like a full blown Nazi. So maybe we should not watch his material, but I do think scenes from marriage is interesting. It's like an interesting take on marriage.
Speaker 2:What's the other one that has the guy who played Kylo Ren About a marriage story. Oh, a marriage story Great, we could watch that.
Speaker 1:That could be so interesting.
Speaker 2:That's Adam driver Noah great we could watch that. That could be so interesting. That's um adam driver, noah baumbach yeah, adam driver. And scarlett johansson isn't she there? You go, it comes full circle.
Speaker 1:You know what is so funny about that movie. When I think of that movie, I don't think of it as adam driver and scarlett johansson, I think of it as adam driver and michelle williams. Like I replace her in my mind. Don't you see her playing that role?
Speaker 3:like she easily could have been cast in that yeah, yeah, because she's in um that other movie, but um who, michelle?
Speaker 2:she's in blue valentine, isn't she? She's in blue valentine.
Speaker 3:She's in brokeback mountain. She is in brokeback she's and she's in the movie that you. You love it, mike Mills, right, is she not?
Speaker 1:Greta Gerwig is in that one 20th Century Women.
Speaker 3:Yes, is Michelle Williams in that? No, she just seems to be in more than she is.
Speaker 1:We all just think she's there, she's everywhere. It's. You know, do you want to be that person? Not yet, no, that's oh, but that's.
Speaker 3:Carey Malkin who. They look a little alike, so let's talk about how we literally all think she just appears in all movies.
Speaker 2:Oh really, with like blonde women. Yeah, which Drive has Oscar. Drive is great Oscar. What's his last name?
Speaker 1:Isaac, I already forgot.
Speaker 2:That was the first movie I remember him being in, yeah, but he was good in dune as well, yeah, he had a great beard, everything good hair and a great beard in that movie, great.
Speaker 1:So yeah, we went, we did that. We had a very I would say we had a luxurious saturday. We went, we like walked all around just buying like gifts that we need to buy for people and instead of like ordering them online, which we're always doing. We're like let's walk around, that's a great idea south port, walk around andersonville and like find gifts, and it was so fun, do you think?
Speaker 3:bought a few more candles, bought a candle.
Speaker 1:I convinced josh to get a candle burning, burning through them, yeah, we actually had like a moment in buck mason where josh tried on two different shirts and I was. I was kind of in my mind, challenging myself like if we don't really like these shirts, like we're walking out of here with nothing and the saleswoman was pretty good, like you know, those sales people that like know how to put the pressure on where they're like. Oh well, that one didn't work, well, how about this one? This one actually might be more what you're looking for. You know they're good where you're like I don't know how I'm getting out of here without a shirt.
Speaker 1:But I was like I ended up saying when the second one didn't work, I was like you know, well, maybe just have to wait until next season's like roll out of the shirt fits, and she was like she kind of looked at me like really, and I'm like I'm gonna hold this, like I'm gonna stand in this discomfort, and then I literally, as I'm like I'm gonna hold this, like I'm gonna stand in this discomfort, and then I literally, as I'm like doing this exposure, realize, oh, I wanna get a second candle.
Speaker 2:That's so funny so.
Speaker 1:I go up to her and I'm like, can I get one of these candles which almost makes it look like me just being like I gotta buy something.
Speaker 2:But I did really, truly in my heart, want a second candle.
Speaker 1:That's really fun. So josh came out of the dressing room and I was like I bought a candle.
Speaker 2:It's kind of a fine line, though, between the sales people who are like overly not pushy even, but like overly friendly yeah which that it really irritates me same.
Speaker 1:It's like we're like.
Speaker 2:They ask almost like too many personal, friendly yeah questions and then divulge about themselves when you didn't even really like ask about it, right I've had that experience, I've definitely had that this has gone real sideways yeah
Speaker 1:I've gotten like a spray tan with someone like that where you're like okay, we don't need to like do this right now. This woman I would say she was actually more like cool about it, kind of just like I'm gonna get you to buy these. She didn't share anything about herself. She saw we had a little gift wrap thing and she's like what an amazing little box you know.
Speaker 2:Like she just found like a little way in, yeah, I think there's an art to that she, she was an artist in particular there, I remember one guy just be like yes, what do you? I mean, what are your plans this weekend? And then, well, you know, this is what I'm doing, and it just, and I was like what it's like.
Speaker 2:Whoa I'm just trying to like, yeah, browse yeah, I could see you particularly hating that and the vibe I was giving off was not friendly, but the person was still trying to like, yeah, why not buddy? Buddy, see, it's funny, you're my buddy in the store. We're in the store together. It's like this is our desert.
Speaker 1:This is what we're doing yeah, I feel like I like to connect, but I don't like to go too deep I like it to be a surface level.
Speaker 1:Yeah, actually I feel like that's the fine line where some people maybe don't have the radar for knowing when they've crossed it yeah, but yeah, it's like, it's fine to connect with them on like, oh my God, don't you love this candle that I'm holding, that's in the store, that I love a moment like that, but I don't need to be like I'm a Pisces and last week I whatever you know, I guess there's moments I like that, but no. I like to keep it boundaried. No, I like to keep it boundaried, yeah.
Speaker 2:To an extent You're like, yeah, 100%, yeah, totally.
Speaker 1:But this woman was great. I don't know her name, I forget. Maybe she told us, but I don't think she did?
Speaker 3:She never told us. She never told us yeah. But shout out to that woman, buck Mason.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean. I always appreciate, though, you going to the dressing room and not having to come back out, because they're very attentive and they're like how are the sizes, are they working? Do you need me to get another? This or you know a different? Yeah, I do appreciate a little bit, not that it's too intense, but like them checking in on you for that.
Speaker 1:They're great at that at Nordstrom. Do you ever they're?
Speaker 2:great.
Speaker 1:I mean I, they're great. I mean I haven't been there in a long time, but yeah, their customer service is great and I actually heard this guy in a podcast who, like he either like invests in nordstrom or in like department stores or whatever and he works with like bloomingdales, nordstrom and neiman marcus or something and he was like I've worked with him for like 20 years he's like I talked to nordstrom like every six months about like overhauling things.
Speaker 1:He's like I've never heard a word from people at Bloomingdale's or Newark's. He's like the people who run the business of Nordstrom are amazing. I'm like, okay, I'm giving them my business. So, yeah, and their boundary I've never had a person at Nordstrom like ask me about my personal life. I don't think I mean they might ask me like where I'd wear something, yeah, but it's usually so. They can like pull me other stuff to try to get me to buy other things, totally, which is fair.
Speaker 2:That's like within the bounds but I like the idea of making an intentional effort to go to brick and mortar yeah to buy gifts yes, I mean we were sold on it now.
Speaker 1:It was so fun to just stroll around on a warm day yeah, get a coffee, get a coffee, yeah, exactly just kind of be in the world. I mean, we were almost like being ridiculous at how much we were like talking about how much we were enjoying, do you?
Speaker 3:remember when we were buying I forget at which store we were ringing it up and I was like I just love this street yeah referring to clark street, because we were kind of just walking around in the summer like you kind of feel alive. And then the clerk at the store I don't even know if they were the owner they were like I can't help but eavesdrop and thank you, as if they had, like, created the street well, I think they thought you meant the store maybe he was just proud of the street yeah, maybe maybe they like I don't know, I'd be proud the rest of the conversation made me think otherwise, but oh, yeah, it was a nice bonding it was it totally was yeah I
Speaker 2:think sarah had that. Uh was trying to embody that experience now that you're talking about it this weekend, because she wanted to uh get a gift for the housewarming party oh, yeah, she wanted to go up to lincoln square, great neighborhood, but there was squarewarming party, and so she wanted to go up to Lincoln Square, great neighborhood, but there was.
Speaker 1:Square Roots Festival.
Speaker 2:Oh yes, so she couldn't find any parking. So she ended up finding another small little store called Hazel on Montrose.
Speaker 1:Oh, yes, yeah, and she found a great gift there.
Speaker 2:But same kind of thing where she was like I want to go out, I want to actually go someplace where there's some stores and in lincoln square is great.
Speaker 1:It has a few yeah, like a general store. Oh my god wait. Actually the same investor that I just mentioned, that I heard on this podcast. He is an investor and he actually said he's like right now he's long on brick and mortar and like short on online. He's like I think people are sick of doing online and there's going to be a boom in brick and mortar. He's like that's my and he like forecasts the stuff. I was like hell, yeah, I hope that's true.
Speaker 3:I love shopping in person, yeah online's great if you're buying like a plug for your car right and you're like overloaded on work and you don't want to drive for it, or maybe you do want to drive 45 minutes, but like it's nice for little things you need. But I feel like for gift giving sometimes when I'm trying to think of like, oh, what am I gonna get someone?
Speaker 3:it's almost like this, like endless yeah I get like really overwhelmed by it and it almost feels like this chore, like a box you need to check, unless I have a really, really specific idea but.
Speaker 3:I feel like we went in person and it was like we kind of I was like, oh, I'm so bad at giving gifts. And then I feel like we went in person and it was like we kind of I was like, oh, I'm so bad at giving gifts. And then I feel like we both, you know kind of would see things and be like, oh, that's great for that person. Yeah, if you're going to like three or four stores, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you really get a sense. We never would have gotten any of that online no. No, and then yeah, it's so special.
Speaker 2:It the conversation piece of it, where it's like oh, yeah, you got it, it's. Maybe it's not a one of a kind, but the store that you got it from is, and it's, in Chicago, and yeah, it's great, so cool.
Speaker 1:So that was, yeah, that was great. I love it. That's really all we did. Oh no, we saw my cousins. We saw my cousin had a baby, so we went and saw her baby which was great, um yeah she's doing super well as her second baby shout out to little killian oh yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1:You have enough for me. I'm killing. We have a cousin in ireland also named killian. It's a great name a great name um, my nieces were like it's kind of like kelly, and I was like I guess in a way some similar letters. So cute. I thought they were gonna say like kill gallon, which is their last name, and oh, I didn't even think of that I was just thinking of your first name, but yeah, this baby's last name will not be kill gallon.
Speaker 2:Luckily, because that might be tough killing kill gala it's a lot of kills, yeah, yeah, a lot of violence for one name.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but yeah, that's what we did. It was a great weekend. Oh, and Josh went to a concert Sunday night, so I was on my own, nice.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, it was amazing.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Loved it.
Speaker 1:Built a spill in? Yeah, I know, built a spill.
Speaker 3:Built a spill was the opener Nice.
Speaker 2:I saw Bilt-a-Spill at Lollapalooza one year Were they the all white man 90s lineup.
Speaker 3:Well, or was he playing with like two women? No, no, no.
Speaker 2:No, it was all white men, I believe. Did you think they were great? I thought it was good, for sure. It was also like one of the first. I feel like it was one of the first shows that year of, like Lollapalooza opened and then they were very quick to be on stage.
Speaker 3:So like.
Speaker 2:I don't know like a 1pm or a 2pm. They like they certainly weren't a headliner but it was it was enjoyable. Yeah, they're solid.
Speaker 3:I saw him with the dinosaur white man lineup and I thought it was like, okay, I really like Built to Spill. I feel like they didn't play maybe the two or three songs I really wanted to hear. I was like, okay, that was fine. They headlined Pitchfork Music Festival and then I saw him, seven years older, with these two younger indie rock rockers.
Speaker 3:It was just the three of them and initially I was like three people, like they're all about the guitar interplay, but it seemed like he was so much more into it. No, interesting, and it just sounded way better and he's like 68 you said he looks pretty bad um cool, but that's's cool no no, no, no. So okay, did I say the second band I saw? I don't think so. Yola Tango? Oh yeah, yola Tango. They were incredible. Are they 68? They just keep getting cooler.
Speaker 2:No, but they, oh, they're 68.
Speaker 3:They act like they're five.
Speaker 2:And they come out with like two albums a year. I I mean, they have so many albums they're still in their prime.
Speaker 3:I feel like their new stuff is as good as their old stuff. Crazy and they're kind of keeping going on. And it was actually a lot of 20-year-olds there. I was kind of expecting to be the youngest one there. What was the venue? Salt Shed.
Speaker 2:Oh Salt.
Speaker 3:Shed. I only see shows at the Salt Shed now Got it. I know everyone is there we're going to see two this week.
Speaker 1:We're seeing Potherdomesty and Alabama Shakes oh, the Alabama Shakes, that's right it'll be so fun, but I am nervous about two concerts in a row and my like stamina you can sit.
Speaker 2:I guess really we can sit, you can sit if you want to be not cool, you can, for sure. If you want to commit social suicide.
Speaker 1:You can, for sure, if you want to commit social suicide you can take a seat.
Speaker 3:We'll just do some coke.
Speaker 1:A second if you want to sure perfect put in some just kidding. Some ear plugs, I know, yeah, I, it's more like standing I. I guess I could find a place to sit. I'd like to get there, not for the opener, typically.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but then you're kind of far back. So it's like, true, it's so hard. Yeah, standing is tough sometimes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we saw MJ Lunderman and we missed the opener and we were so far back, but that was inside at the Salt Shed. That was inside, outside at the Salt Shed.
Speaker 3:I think it's a little easier to like sneak up.
Speaker 1:Oh good.
Speaker 3:And maybe you won't have the best spot in the house, but like I don't think it's as, like I don't think you feel as suffocatingly out of the loop.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Even if you're in the way back. I think it's kind of like, oh, this is nice, okay, yeah. You don't feel like you're in like a shoebox at the bottom of the ocean Cool sounds fun, yeah, okay, well, yeah, that's really all that's going on.
Speaker 1:It's a lot. We covered a lot of ground. Yeah, we did, we did um, so we can move into our topic, which is, like we said, sleep hygiene sleep, I guess we could have just said sleep, but why do you think we say sleep hygiene?
Speaker 2:yeah, as like practitioners yeah I think it's something I uh. Yeah, that's a good question, probably because it has to be intentional yeah, that's usually what I end up saying.
Speaker 1:Right, and it's up sleep. You can't control sleep itself, but you could do the hygiene around the hygiene around it.
Speaker 2:It has to be, it doesn't have to be but intentional.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Thoughtful and trying to set yourself up for success? Maybe, yeah, but what do you feel like?
Speaker 1:that's for you Like, what's your ideal sleep hygiene for your own slumber.
Speaker 2:I mean I think, yeah, your own slumber. I mean I think, yeah, I think it's consistent, like trying to go to bed at a certain time so that I get a certain amount of sleep that's a classic tip if I'm over midnight.
Speaker 2:it's not good for anyone. Yeah, and sleep is really an Achilles heel for me, in the sense of I feel much more anxious when I don't get enough sleep. Okay, Like I feel much more. It's not so much like a dragging lethargic tired. I actually feel more sometimes amped up when I don't get enough sleep.
Speaker 1:Yeah, adrenaline yeah.
Speaker 2:So I think it's consistently trying to not stay up like past 11. Yeah, for me so, and and try to keep that, even on the weekends, and yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, that's funny that you say that, because last night I just so happened to get eight and a half hours of sleep, which kind of never happens, and I always do this I like have a night of eight and a half hours sleep, or I work out like try one time and I'm like I'm changing my life, like this is how I have to be.
Speaker 1:This is the rest of my life is this, I said to Josh. I was like, oh wow, I guess this is the key to happiness, to actually get a full night's sleep. But I only happened to get it because I like got in bed to read and I really did want to read and you know when you're reading and you're like eyes are so heavy.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, that is yes, keep going. I agree with that.
Speaker 1:And I was like, okay, I guess I have to sleep. So I went much earlier than I would have and I'm like I've got to be better about like lights out at 11.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like no book. No, nothing lights out. That's been my issue. Yeah, I haven't done that.
Speaker 1:I do think I fall asleep harder if I read.
Speaker 2:Oh, I think that's a, now that you mentioned that, probably that, and I'm thinking about my own sleep hygiene routine. If I'm, it's just different if I'm like watching something on my phone or even scrolling, yeah and then I'm like, and then I'm like watching something on my phone or even scrolling, yeah. And then I'm like, okay, lights out at 11. I don't feel like I get to sleep not only as quickly, but also just as deeply.
Speaker 2:This is no, but that's actually a great example I have no evidence of this, but I feel like when I read, it is a quicker and it's deeper.
Speaker 1:Totally and it's less like my brain's, less like stimulated, yeah and so well, I think I mean I love you saying this because I think it shows that like everybody kind of has a different formula and probably the formula changes with like aging or like kids or whatever. Like your hormones change over time or for me, during my cycle different, during different weeks of my like menstrual cycle I am like more, I have more insomnia. There's like one week where or there's like a couple days in my cycle where I wake up at like 4 am super sweaty, and then I eventually fall back asleep and.
Speaker 1:I'm always like exhausted the next day, but it's like I can't fight city hall, like it just happens. So it's like you know, on those days, sleep hygiene actually for me looks like radical acceptance of like I can't just like press a button and change my hormones yeah or try to like drug myself out of this experience.
Speaker 1:Like I think, for me wisdom is let yourself have two days a month. Like that You'll be more tired. The next night You'll get to catch up on the sleep. Then do your best, Be gentle with yourself. Like that's a big part of it. But yeah, like for me, if I'm reading a really good book I'm really into it can keep me up.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But if I read something I'm medium into or I'm at the beginning of it and it's not that like juicy. Yet then it can like make me fall asleep yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, therein lies another question which, again, we can set it up as best as we can, and sometimes we, our bodies, like resistant to it where do you go from there? Is it a book? Is that what you try?
Speaker 1:yeah, well, I have different things, like I know there's like meditation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we talked about that.
Speaker 1:We talked about mindfulness last week yeah, you know, what's funny is like I'm not a big, like oh shoot, I can't sleep in the middle of the night I guess I'll meditate. I have before, like said my mantra, kind of more casually or like, even like a pmr.
Speaker 2:A lot of people say that helps them like a progressive.
Speaker 1:Yes, where you like progressively tense and relax your muscles. Sometimes I'll do that, or I'll picture each of my limbs like sinking more into the bed and like feel the visceral, like like the gravity of that yeah that sometimes will help, because sometimes I'm like I don't know if it helps, and then I'm like it must help because I must fall asleep before I realize it doesn't help.
Speaker 3:It must be like.
Speaker 1:Right, because I'm like I'll go back to it. I'm like, does this help? And I'm like I guess I must because I wouldn't know. If I'm like, fuck, this isn't working and it's like one of those like a watched pot never boils, like you, you can't really strive too hard for it. I know you almost just have to do what you can around it and like see if it comes, which is hard.
Speaker 2:It's like a microcosm of like everything, yeah, therapy I've purchased like three or four really long audiobooks and sometimes I'll just pick a middle chapter, yeah, so that I don't really know the context of it. Yeah, and it's just, and they have, you know, podcasts for that they have like snooze cast yeah, and things like that. But I'll just like put on chapter 11 of moby dick. It's great and after sometimes, sometimes it works where it's just kind of like, and I put it on low enough so that I'm not hearing maybe all the words.
Speaker 2:So I'm not like you know, it's like, it's just kind of like background of somebody reading something yeah instead of me putting that for because I still want the lights off and I don't want to yeah you know, have a book in front of me, but that's sometimes my go-to when I can't when my body's like resisting it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's actually there's this guy on Insight Timer where, instead of sleep meditations, he has sleep stories, and his name is Andrew Johnson, I think, and he's Scottish. He has an amazing accent. I really think those are great, those little Andrew Johnson sleep stories. Like if you're in the middle of the night you can't fall asleep. Yeah, something like that I feel like can be helpful.
Speaker 2:I think also for me, sleep hygiene, like I have to be comfortable temperature wise. Yes, I can't have, and this is something that Sarah and I have practiced for a long time is having separate blankets.
Speaker 1:I know that's. That's like a Swedish method of sleeping. Yes, it is. Yeah, we tried this I right now.
Speaker 2:So we have like a very large, like one duvet kind of like blanket on our on our bed and we both have separate like comforters on top of that um, and hers is like much thicker than mine and much warmer than mine, and so there's also like a temperature yeah, thing there um, but I I think that that's also some of the things to think about or at least that's been helpful for me with.
Speaker 2:Like sleep hygiene is like not getting the movement of your partner, or, and I think, that we are in a place where sarah typically will stay up later than me, and that works for her yeah kind of doing what she wants to do.
Speaker 1:Um, and I will try to be a little bit earlier to sleep, so even like having less of that, like tussling with the blanket yeah, we tried it in for some reason, like it wasn't like totally working for us, the separate blankets, but maybe we need to like revisit it at some point but I think it goes back to what you said of like you got to make it personal and really like what, what works for you yeah, but if I'm hot, I can't do it yeah, yeah, they do.
Speaker 1:There's research on that, that temperature and cooler than average temperatures.
Speaker 2:I would much rather be cooler under the blankets, for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if I'm in a really hot place, sometimes I have the thought where I'm like maybe I won't sleep at all.
Speaker 2:Maybe I won't sleep at all. Yeah, yeah, I agree with that, yeah.
Speaker 3:What did you say? You could be so cold. You've got the chills.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's like br, then some yeah I my body temperature goes all over the place and sometimes I am like frozen solid then it's hard to sleep, yeah this makes me think about how wise is it.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of how wise is it questions that could be related to sleep, sleeping in socks. How wise is it? We don't have to answer that, but I feel like that could be a future well, comfortable clothing is huge. Huge.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm almost like this question is like making, or this topic is making me think of like the extremes of sleep practices, and maybe actually I'm thinking like both extremes can be bad. Like the person who, you know, falls asleep in their like work clothes or like almost in their shoes and makeup because they're like just like like drops into bed, and maybe they're, maybe that's not even that extreme. Maybe the extreme is like the person who stays up all night like watching youtube videos or gaming or something you know like really not practicing anything that's like health focused when it comes to sleep. And then I feel like sometimes I run into with like friends or in the clinical space, people like over biohacking their sleep a bit like tracking it too much.
Speaker 1:Cause Apple now has like how restful was it and how many hours? And this is, and with this many hours, this is how you should feel. And the Apple watch I don't care what it says, I can't know how you're going to experience your day. And there's a lot of like distortions around, like what little sleep makes you behave, like what enough sleep can like cure or not cure. So, yeah, I think like there can be. I I would have different like approaches or discussions around or not cure. So, yeah, I think like there can be. I would have different like approaches or discussions around either one. Like maybe the person who's falling asleep in their makeup which whatever, but me, I don't know the person who's not at all doing anything to prepare for sleep, to like lend themselves to restful sleep, that person could still be getting restful sleep.
Speaker 1:So, I can't like judge it too much. Same with you know eating falls into this. You know I work with eating and body image. Sometimes there are clients who really don't have a super balanced diet and like they go to the doctor and they're pretty healthy for the most part. So there is a humility in as like a therapist and even as a person where it's like different things are going to work for different people. And not overthinking sleep is a healthy thing, not overthinking.
Speaker 1:I have to get the perfect amount of sleep to feel good to focus to do anything, or like wanting to stay up all night you know, to feel a sense of like joy or alone time or personal time could be the other extreme. But yeah, you know it's like what is like a healthy sleep practice. It really depends on, like your direct experience and your own relationship to sleep, yeah.
Speaker 2:And I think there is something to be said about if something or if somebody is presenting with a lot of dysregulation, at least being curious about well, what does your sleep look like? Or what is your even just self-care routine look like, including sleep? Yeah Right, because if we don't get enough, whatever enough is, or effective or deep sleep, we might become more and this is from DBT right Like more emotionally dysregulated. And I come back to me being more anxious. I am more dysregulated just from personal experience.
Speaker 2:So, and everybody is wired so differently and people need different levels of everything I do think, though it does come up in the therapy space just as a curiosity like how much? What does your routine look like?
Speaker 1:tell me about your self-care, you know yeah, totally, and it's almost like being that detective, working backwards like if someone's coming to you or they're like I'm feeling really anxious and I don't know why. One piece of the puzzle is definitely like what is your sleep like?
Speaker 2:yeah, how much sleep did you get last night, or?
Speaker 1:in the last week, or yeah, what is?
Speaker 2:that yeah, just to kind of be curious about it totally do you consider your hygiene routine part of your sleep hygiene routine? Does that make sense? Yeah like do you consider I'm gonna brush my teeth and wash my face?
Speaker 3:because sometimes people are.
Speaker 2:I'm not judging it, but sometimes people are very like regimented with that and that is part of like this is me cuing my mind that now we're winding down. Yeah, I mean, I wish I thought of it that way mine's more like probably vanity focus.
Speaker 1:Like the sleep is now time for me to put on my cream brush my hair a thousand times totally like. Well, that's a funny thing you bring that up, because right now what's like really popular, you know, on tiktok and all over the place, is like people do some pretty crazy things overnight for beauty, or I mean, have you heard of the mouth taping? Mouth taping no so this is a big sleep hygiene thing.
Speaker 2:There's you ever appreciate how inept I am knowing anything that's going on.
Speaker 1:I can't believe you haven't heard about mouth taping. It goes everywhere.
Speaker 2:I feel like you must look at me sometimes and be like how have you known? What are you doing? I love it. I love it.
Speaker 1:I mean good for you that you don't know about mouth taping Mouth taping Because basically it's like people are if you're a mouth breather, they're like saying that it's bad for you and you know, everything gets so extreme because, obviously, like people say, you know people who have to use one of those um sleep apnea machines. Yeah, you know, it's like, if you don't, if you're a person who needs that, if you meet those criteria and you don't wear one, like it can be.
Speaker 1:I mean, I think it can be fatal in some cases yeah, way higher risk of a heart attack and you stop breathing. Stop breathing like there's all the this danger to not wearing one, but the internet has taken that.
Speaker 1:They're like if you're a mouth breather, it means you have sleep apnea and it means if you don't mouth, tape like you'll die like it's gotten that extreme where I'm like I I think I'm a mouth breather and when I sleep, and I'm like I also don't think but you literally tape your mouth shut not you, literally not me, but you tape your mouth shut. You buy this tape and you tape it shut for the night there's special mouth tape yeah, of course I mean.
Speaker 2:I'm sure there are people you know peddling this narrative someone's startup, so you tape your mouth shut and then that forces you to breathe through your nose exactly, and you know, of course, everyone guaneth paltrow does it.
Speaker 1:You know, everyone tells you oh my god, I sleep so much more deeply and my skin's better and I don't have bad thoughts anymore and my kids got into college and, like you know, everything is cured from this mouth tape From mouth tape Like ridiculous.
Speaker 1:But yeah, so that's like. And there's even these like people who wear this like full mask the whole time they sleep, with like anti-aging stuff in it or certain like lights in it. I saw this girl was like taking off her sleep stuff, it was like mouth tape and it was like these two tapes under her eyes and I'm like and someone had the question where they're like so these like gen z-ers who are I'm like going on a full tangent now, but these gen z-ers who are putting all this stuff like and you know, look like frankenstein while they're sleeping. Are they like having sex? And I'm like, yeah, like who's putting on all that?
Speaker 3:stuff, like you know basically cryogenically freezing themselves.
Speaker 1:It's like it's so sexless, like to not, you know, like we're losing the plot here a little bit.
Speaker 2:They're definitely not having it organically.
Speaker 1:It has to be super planned, obviously. But also there's a ton of research that they're not having sex.
Speaker 2:So it's like it's just interesting. But to your. One of your points in this would be that if I were to ask that person what is part of your sleep hygiene routine, it would be these hygiene things that would be like in order for me to get really great sleep, I need to bandage myself up like the mummy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and do mouth tape.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because otherwise I'm going to be a wreck tomorrow.
Speaker 1:That would be part of their I think they would be more like. Sleep is a time for me to like fight wrinkles, fight aging, and I can't waste that time. I don't think it would have to do with their actual the mouth tape might be different.
Speaker 1:I think the mouth tape, but often that goes back to vanity too, where they'll be like if you don't breathe out of your mouth, then it's better for your skin and it'll be, you know. But I think they say it's better for your skin and it'll be, you know. But I think they say it's better for your actual sleep. But I think.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was very basic when I was thinking of it. I was thinking of like brushing your teeth at the same time. Or you know, and then washing your face or taking a shower, or you know, whatever your hygiene is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would think like sleep hygiene strictly in, though in that way might be like some people will turn the lights low like an hour before they go to bed or wear like those light blocking glasses, not look at screens for an hour before bed.
Speaker 2:I've heard that can be really good yeah um or nothing, too stimulating yeah even, like had mentioned, like a really enthralling book can be too stimulating. Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like doing all these, like winding down things and that has shown to help some people. What's keeping you up? Because, like, some of that stuff is like even like taming, like your hormones and stuff, and like readying your circadian rhythm to be in the dark. You know it like cues the body. But you know, some people are staying awake with racing thoughts and they and I have heard even that recently that's more the case because people tend to spend less time just like daydreaming and like with nothing in front of them.
Speaker 1:So all the stray thoughts that we're supposed to have and kind of like roll through our brains as human beings, like people, don't have time for that until they lay down to sleep, so they kind of all come at once. So sometimes, just like Deepak Chopra says, like bouts of silence, moments where you're not occupied with anything, can actually be really valuable to sleep. Letting the brain just kind of wander a bit helps it do it less when you're laying down to bed at night. That's probably part of the function of meditating. Yeah, part of it, I imagine. Yeah, yeah, I feel like I usually have to with new client ask, you know if they're struggling with sleep. There's so much understanding at first of like have you ever slept well? What was your?
Speaker 1:you know bedtime like growing up you know what and you know what, might they be missing? Because to fall asleep you kind of have to have a sense of like it's okay to leave the day where it is and things undone and to let go. There's a lot of like, generally healthy ways of relating to self that happen when you like, let yourself sleep. What do you think if clients or friends or anyone is like really using a lot of like marijuana to sleep?
Speaker 2:I'm thinking separately from like sleep, prescribed sleep meds yeah, like self-medicating yeah, yeah, yeah I mean, I guess I would just want to know more about it. Yeah, and is it like is this a a rough period that we're going through here, that these are we're just trying to like aid and like trying to get some sleep because other things are going on in your life, or is this like? Yeah I really need this to go to sleep yeah which I feel. Who am I to?
Speaker 2:I mean, I, I don't know if it was a friend, you know, especially like like uh you know, just curious about it, but I think if it was somebody I was working with, definitely again being curious about like the history of it, like we're literally doing it every night or yeah have you tried without it, and what's that experience been like? So kind of sussing out, like the dependency on it to fall asleep and also, do you feel like it's like quality sleep, like how do you feel in the morning then?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Does that linger with you if you're, you know, using marijuana or whatever? Like, do you feel groggy in the morning, right, like also on the other, on the other end of it, it's like, yeah, I needed to fall asleep, but then what is your day like once you wake up to right and kind of exploring that, yeah, totally, cause I've had patients that we that you know, probably you and I, even when we're working together we'd be like, yeah, my head doesn't clear until the afternoon from having you know like just kind of like feeling like they're cloudy right.
Speaker 2:Not that they're still high, but just that their mind is yeah, like fuzzy circle headed.
Speaker 3:We used to say that at camp when we'd smoke the pot, there we go. We'd wake up and I'd be like, oh, I'm circle headed and I like to be sharp. So yeah when I get high, real real sharp, real sharp indeed. But no, no, I never do it, so I'm always a trapezoid.
Speaker 1:Yeah, square headed, square headed. I'm sure listeners are almost like annoyed by how non-prescriptive I'm being with this. But I mean, I try not to be prescriptive with anything, but more like explore and help a client understand. Like if you're conflicted about this or struggling with something and other factors are impacting it, like let's identify and understand the system there and offer the system alternatives. If it doesn't want them, them it doesn't have to take them.
Speaker 1:But like with marijuana so often and I've had conversations with friends like this where the discussion is like it's totally fine, there's no negative effects of it like I use it every single night, it helps me get good sleep and that's that. And I think it's always worth, with anything that we're using every day, to just be curious, like what would it? I'm not saying you have to do this what would it be like not to? Or if you think about tonight going to bed not taking an edible or not using your vape, what comes up if you just picture yourself lying down without those things. Yeah, even if they never do it, it's like you know there can be defensiveness around marijuana but around a lot of things. But you know it's like it's curious. If you have to do it well. What happens if you don't?
Speaker 1:if you don't do it because what's being avoided. That's always something you know and it can be like well, I won't fall asleep, okay? And and what happens then? You know, you lay awake. And while you're laying awake, what happens? You're not sleeping. So what is happening? Yeah you know, if in some world there's thoughts about am I good enough?
Speaker 1:or thoughts like trauma, flashbacks or whatever that's actually really useful for us to know yeah and maybe this could be a safe space where we talk about that stuff and approach it so that your mind might feel less of a need to do it right before you hit the pillow and you could use marijuana or not, but maybe you'd be less dependent on it yeah, I think a lot of times there's the the sleep is like the end goal, and so it's almost like well, I do this because it helps me sleep, but there's something in between there where it's like well, what, why does it help you sleep?
Speaker 2:Well, because my thoughts are racing so much, and so that's actually like the middle portion of it, like the sleep is the eventual end goal that you get to.
Speaker 1:Yeah and so the narrative is that I do this and it helps me sleep.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but there's something in between there where it's like why does it help you sleep? Well, right, what are you?
Speaker 3:avoiding, is it?
Speaker 2:those thoughts of inadequacy or the flashbacks, or oh okay, like that's important, like you said, like data to know. And I'm not saying that the using doesn't help people fall asleep, but that's like the end result is you end up? Falling asleep. Right, because maybe you haven't been so occupied with whatever it is, feelings, thoughts that you just don't want to feel yeah, and I.
Speaker 1:It's like I. So often I feel like clients will think like well, you're just anti you know marijuana or whatever like, even if it's like edible PM they're using or something.
Speaker 1:And I really I'm like, I know in my heart I'm not. I am just very, and maybe sometimes I am too rigid in my thoughts on like addiction. But I tend to think like if we can't be without a substance, even something outside the self, if there's this dependence, the self is not in touch with wholeness and it's like that's what I know in my work, in my practice is wellbeing, is vitality. So it's like you're trading comfort for vitality.
Speaker 3:And.
Speaker 1:I think it's. I almost want to be like I'm so sorry to tell you this, but like it's not innocent in every case and it's not even the marijuana's fault. It's like addiction is the real thing there. It's like this protector that won't get out of the way of your wholeness, essentially, and won't integrate into the rest of you Because, like, I've used marijuana in my life and it's not my drug of choice, but you know I've enjoyed it here and there. I've also not enjoyed it here and there. You know like felt really sick taking it or like not good. But you know, anything that we struggle to be without it's affecting integration and I I'm always gonna, and I sometimes I have to have that hard conversation where it's like, if you are telling me you want to feel more whole, we have to look at what's in the way and it might not be something you want to look at yeah so much you know.
Speaker 1:And then when I'm being marijuana, it might be like lights out at 11, you know like we're like, but I can't watch my show and I can, so empathize with that Right. You know it's the only alone time I have like after my kids go to bed or after.
Speaker 2:That is a that is a real struggle.
Speaker 1:Yeah totally.
Speaker 2:It's like this is finally the day, is literally like finally over of obligations, and so, yeah, pull the pin. I'm going to stay up as late as I want and just binge watch as many shows, because I'm not going to be bothered, I mean. I think that that's a real thing from my experience in parenting is the day is so hectic and you're pulled in a lot of directions and then when you do get that time, you're like sleep hygiene is the last thing I want to be thinking about yeah, totally, and that's really hard and I mean my sleep is so having kids just completely like upended because I I mean I don't think I was.
Speaker 2:I'm going out on a limb here by saying my boys were not the best sleepers, just in general, like they didn't, it took a while for them to be able to sleep consistently through the night, and so I mean my sleep was just. Like how long? Oh, I don't even remember. Probably I probably do remember and I just don't want to think about it Like six months or like three years?
Speaker 2:Oh, I know, I know they were not sleeping through the night by six months. No, it was longer than that, for sure oh man, yeah, and it you know that's so hard. It is hard and there's like times where I just remember being at my desk and just like laughing at like nothing, cause I was so sleep deprived that I was just like yeah, I'm slap happy, literally slap happy.
Speaker 2:I'm like a zombie here, so, yeah, that that was just completely thrown off for a while. And then once you get back to maybe what's a semblance of like some normalcy, then, yeah, you kind of like reintegrate into like, oh, nighttime is like a fun time to like do stuff yeah I don't want to go to bed on time now.
Speaker 1:Totally, I get to I have that, I don't even have to catch back up on shows that I've missed out on or you know or be with exactly right like hang out bother him hanging out I already have a kid that's like it's kelly, it's me, but yeah, just catching up with your significant other having a conversation, watching a show, like yeah.
Speaker 2:So that can definitely be also a little bit of like willful teenager angst that comes in me. Or it's like I'm not no, like, even though I know I need to go to bed like I don't want to do this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I will say this, cause I was saying to Josh the other day I was like do you think there are these people? And I know this is a dumb question, but it's like we're every night through like 10 o'clock on the dot.
Speaker 2:I don't think that's a dumb question.
Speaker 1:Where it's like 10 o'clock on the dot. They're asleep. They get up, you know, at six or seven and they're like working out and then like working and they're like every day doing this, like almost like to me I was like it sounds crazy, like that every day you could like maintain that and not mess it up. But then at the same time as I say, as I ask that, I'm like I know I don't want to be that person right.
Speaker 2:You know, I don't think it's a. It's a silly question to ask, though yeah, because like how could you really be well. No, but I think I. I maybe it's not every single day like that, but I think that there probably are some people in the world who are able to adhere to a pretty strict schedule, and that works for them.
Speaker 1:But I know how important it is to me to be able to flex.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1:You know, like we're going to a couple of concerts this week that just happened to be in the same week. We don't normally do that, but there were shows we wanted to see and it's like I can be willing to maybe feel a little tired for two days and like handle it for the sake of this other value of this, like rare experience of seeing music, which is so vital. And you know I can make that flex and sure, like Friday morning will I maybe feel pretty tired? I tend to not. Will I maybe feel pretty tired? I tend to not. It's funny, like when I do that, like my morning clients, I feel pretty sharp for still and I really drop off in the afternoon. That's when sleep issues really hit me. It's like three o'clock.
Speaker 1:I am like crawling toward my bed.
Speaker 2:Like are you a coffee drinker?
Speaker 1:Yes, I you a coffee drinker.
Speaker 2:yes, I'm a coffee drink, so am I, and see that's always the toughest thing is like, because if I have that mid-afternoon it's gonna impact me yeah even if that's only psychological. But I don't know, it's probably still in my system. I feel like I can be very sensitive to that if I have caffeine too late yeah and then it's like oh man, I like shot myself in the foot I got that boost in the afternoon, but then I'm like, I feel like more wired yeah, at night totally I can't like oh, and if you combine that with, I'm like stressed about something yeah sure, I mean I could have a full-blown panic attack I remember one time the closest I ever came to a panic attack was after a cold brew from collectiva.
Speaker 1:I got their cold brew. I don't even know why their cold brew is like lighter fluid I mean it's crazy.
Speaker 2:I was a little like you're like having palpitation.
Speaker 1:I was like and I was upset, I was like really upset and I think I was just like stressed in general and I was like I'm never touching that stuff, yeah, but it was like a combo of all that sleep deprivation and blah blah blah. So, yeah, yeah, some of the ways we try to like make up for lost makeup for sleep, yeah, can be pretty detrimental.
Speaker 2:That was leading me into even my next uh thought was like what are your sleep hygiene? Like no goes. Like no fly zones where you're like no, I can't do that because I know it's just gonna mess with me. For me it's um, and I know that this is accessible all the time because we have our phones with us, but having a tv in our in a bedroom is not I can't do that oh, oh boy, we don't have.
Speaker 2:We're rocking that life daily we do not have one in our bedroom, nor have we ever had one, sarah and I, in our bedroom. And, granted again, we do have phones and access to like yeah, shows vis-a-vis that.
Speaker 1:But having an actual like tv that could be on that emits that much light, like that's just I can't do that yeah, we put our tv up in our room, we mounted it and ever since then, every single day, there's something on at some point, and this is no judgment on people who do that, because I know a lot of people who can do that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it works for them. For me, though, that's like a I just I can't do that, and what made me think of it was the caffeine thing I really try to not have if I can like past noon. If I can avoid having caffeine like afternoon, Wow See.
Speaker 1:I can't have it past like five. It's pretty late. I mean if I have it at five I might mess with my sleep a little bit, but if I had it at like night night, like Josh can have it at 9 pm.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you never know, and that works for people Drinking coffee now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and really I'll sleep like a babe. Yeah, it doesn't really.
Speaker 3:It doesn't really work for me. I just drink it all the time and I think it has no effect.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I'll make a instant decaf, like at night, because I just like the flavor of coffee, even though yeah, not a lot of decaf tastes the best, but I just like the ritual of it but. If I had, yeah, if I was having a cup of coffee right now, I'd be like to me.
Speaker 1:I know this isn't a no-go because I do it, but it should be a no-go it's just the phone like I'm like I can scroll and scroll and scroll and scroll and it's not only does it interrupt the sleep itself, but it's like I'm in this state of like I hate myself, I hate everyone else, I'm not good enough, everyone's annoying me, like that is the feeling of like lifting my head up from social media and it's like I still sometimes, semi-frequently, just like fry my brain on it right before bed or right when I wake up.
Speaker 1:I've really been better about and when I wake up, it's like no phone until I meditate, so then it's like a period of silence get ready Wash my face, cuz I have to like wake myself up before I meditate a little bit, or else I'll just fall back asleep and then I go and then I can have at it with the phone. But it's like this clear space.
Speaker 2:I've heard people's no-goes being not having the phone in the room.
Speaker 1:Yes, I've heard people go that far. They must have like an alarm clock next to their bed.
Speaker 2:Well, that's so funny that you say that, because you said that as if that's like some like alien idea, totally. I mean, I can't imagine how could, like they have like these things called alarm?
Speaker 1:clocks that their only function is to tell time and wake them up. Yeah, I guess I could just for years order.
Speaker 2:That's all it was. Was alarm clock. It's just so funny because I was having the same thought and I was like what are you talking about, john?
Speaker 1:like people don't even use their phones for phones anymore like it's not really a phone, so it's also like it's hard because there's so many things it's connected to, which is like genius of the phone, gods oh yeah but it's like if you have aging parents, if you have kids that live out of state, if you well, sure, so yeah, because that's taken away the hard line.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, like nobody has a landline anymore phone so. But to your point about a substance. What would it be like to not have the phone in the room?
Speaker 1:not for you, because then it's like I can't listen to an audiobook. I can't listen to yeah I just can't listen to a sleep meditation you're, dare I say, raw dog in sleep which is like, that's what which is not raw dog time I know it's just sleep.
Speaker 2:Isn't that such a foreign concept? To just be like leave your phone outside of the room and, and even as I'm saying it, there's a resistance within me that I'm noticing to be like. Well, of course, I'm not gonna do that it's like, but it's like how many years? And I'm older than you like. How many years of my life did I not have?
Speaker 2:that, and it was just like sleep and how many nights where it was like I was bored oh as shit and you, just like you waited until you fell asleep or you found something to look at or you know, created stories in your mind or just thought and that that was sleep right, but isn't but isn't it interesting, yeah it's like I guess people have alarm clocks yeah, totally.
Speaker 1:But I'm like could I really? I guess my phone's on silent at night anyway. So it's like do you put the do not disturb no, I just literally have it all the time on silent on my phone so no one could ever really so, even if you had aging parents. They I know it's not like my parents like aging backwards or anything but, should we do an experiment?
Speaker 2:should you and I try to like a night before our next recording, have it yeah, have it outside just because it's making me uncomfortable and maybe like journal about or not journal, but like just write a few thoughts.
Speaker 1:So what's the rule?
Speaker 2:like an hour before you're away from your phone. I don't, I'm just thinking.
Speaker 1:Can I have my Kindle? I'm just thinking of this right now.
Speaker 3:Well, yeah, I mean, it's not like you're in a vacuum. Like that's a screen with, like your thoughts, yeah, but the idea of just having the phone not except I don't know yeah I would try it.
Speaker 1:I'll try it. Can I have my binky? No, can I have my josh?
Speaker 3:like we can have nothing. It's like can I have?
Speaker 2:it. Yeah, yeah, no, I mean, can I have air to breathe?
Speaker 1:or what it's like. I could just put it out here for a night I mean, maybe I'll love it.
Speaker 2:Maybe I'll suddenly be like this is everything or we don't even have to do it.
Speaker 1:But just even think about it, or I could even have my phone on sound outside my room. So it's like if someone called me in the middle of the night at the hospital I would actually hear it and that would be an actual reason to tend to my phone. Otherwise I'm not dealing with it. Maybe that's even better. It's loud enough for me to hear which I could put the volume up loud enough. Okay, let's try it. Do we need to do it on the same night or just some night?
Speaker 1:Cause I feel like I might forget.
Speaker 2:I think just if you can I obviously am not going to be upset if you don't do this at all Like I don't know Just pick a night within the next week before we meet again where we both. No, it doesn't have to be the same night. I'm gonna try it do I gotta do this?
Speaker 1:no, I immediately already said in my head I won't do it tonight.
Speaker 3:I listen to music on my phone every night. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:But isn't that interesting because, again, when I was even like talking about it, there's resistance on my phone every night. But isn't that? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. But isn't that interesting Because, again, when I was even like talking about it, there's resistance coming.
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally, and I'm sure I've given people that advice too and it's like look at me, not even willing to take it. I don't know if I've ever given someone that advice, but I somebody, and maybe my resistance to telling them is like dude, you wouldn't be able to do that, yeah, like don't tell somebody, yeah, something you haven't, or at least haven't even tried before, right to be like it's true, like not that we have to experience everything to give advice on.
Speaker 2:But yeah, wait so what was your no-go for? Sleep hygiene? Tiktok like, oh yeah, the social media.
Speaker 1:Um I and yeah, really, late night coffee for sure, late night caffeine, um other than that, there's not much, which is probably not great, yeah what sleep masks? I, oh, look on your eyes. I tried one once because, josh, for a while there was working late into the night and his desk is in our bedroom did it ever work for you?
Speaker 1:it's like no, it was like so annoying on my face and then I was like maybe there's special ones that are comfortable, but man, I found it crazy uncomfortable, like this thing's like sucked to my eyes and when you move it, I feel like it moves yeah, there's like a sound to it of whatever material it is. Yeah, it's like pressing on my head and it's also like imagine a retainer times 50 like so annoying yeah, anyway, I don't know why I'm anything asleep mask yeah, fuck a sleep mask. No, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 3:If you like a sleep mask, go for it if you love it yeah, I've heard there.
Speaker 1:They can be a bit addictive, like then suddenly you can't sleep without them yeah, I. Maybe that's why I was asking, because I do feel like there are people who really enjoy them makes sense kind of kind of but is it just your eyes that register light in a room, or is it like your whole body kind of sense it? I don't know. Question for someone else.
Speaker 3:For a plant. They grow towards the sun.
Speaker 2:Good point.
Speaker 3:Photosynthesis. They might not even have eyes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, chlorophyll.
Speaker 2:Chlorophyll Xylem that too so we can now transition to how wise is it?
Speaker 1:so tell us the how wise is it? And where it comes to the how wise is it?
Speaker 2:question is how wise is it to have a nickname which comes from my oldest son, wes?
Speaker 1:love it. Shout out to Wes another great.
Speaker 2:How wise is it? Question another brilliant question Wes, another great.
Speaker 1:How wise is it question Another brilliant question, yeah.
Speaker 2:What do you think? How wise is it to have? Well, do you have a nickname?
Speaker 1:Did you have any nicknames? Kel, if that counts.
Speaker 2:I think that counts yeah.
Speaker 1:My whole family does not say my full name ever. Josh doesn't really call me Kel. It's like my family and my grade school friends will call me kel kel, um, like my brothers would never say kelly, they would just be like hey, kel yeah, so a shortened version of a name is a nickname right, yeah, so like, my full name is jonathan most people call me john and like name that you go by is a nickname.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I only like write Jonathan on like forms and stuff I don't like introduce myself.
Speaker 1:I don't you know like yeah, John, but that's a nickname, right. I'd call that a nickname, a shortened version. Yeah, a nickname. For sure, mine is way more casual because like people call me kelly all the time both of you call me kelly. Um, yeah, I mean, I love when people call me cal, I prefer you do interesting?
Speaker 2:yeah, I've never.
Speaker 1:I didn't know that about you yeah, I, I find it so like um, I don't know. I find it like endearing. That it's what you know. What's funny? I will notice other people named kelly will quickly call me cal and I'm like, well, it's probably because they like it okay like I remember I worked at this preschool in college with another girl named kelly and like second day I worked with her.
Speaker 2:She was like hey cal I was like I love this, like it's so like sweet um, and maybe that's where that, because we talked a little bit pre-recording about this. It's not because the the way. The question is how wise is it to have a nickname? A lot of times you don't choose your nickname yeah, totally, and so it's almost like how wise is it to embrace a nickname maybe?
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:But then we got into this area of like. Sometimes your nickname comes from embarrassment or, you know like areas of that, I know it's like there can be nicknames.
Speaker 1:I'm trying to think if I've ever had a nickname I didn't like when I worked at Starbucks in high school, shout out to my team there they called me.
Speaker 2:This was when you're still together. We're all.
Speaker 1:That's starbucks when um remember when britney spears was married to kevin federline yeah, for sure, k-fed they would call me k-fed. They would put it on the schedule as k-fed. Yeah, so that was my nickname, k-fed yeah, did you embrace that? I loved that yeah, I thought it was so fun. Everybody called me that there yeah yeah, so that was fun. I don't think I've ever gotten a nickname. I didn't like kk because I'm kelly k squared yeah, that's about it, I think. I don't think I've ever disliked yeah, any, what about?
Speaker 1:you, john, anything else?
Speaker 2:jb.
Speaker 1:JB. That's great. Jb is great.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because of my last name, so some people will call me JB, which there was one that I used to pack a lunch in high school Like I used to like brown bag my lunch and then sometimes get the lunch at school.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:But I would still have in high school juice boxes, so they go to the juice box. They used to be like hey, jb, you got any JBs? Like that's what they would say, which is just like a ridiculous thing.
Speaker 1:That's cute.
Speaker 2:But JB, my first email address was John Blaze, after because that was one of the nicknames of Method man, who was one of my favorite rappers in the. Wu-tang Clan, and so people then took that and started calling me John Blaze.
Speaker 1:John Blaze yeah, that's fun. Which is like another JB yeah, so that type of thing. Another celeb nickname? Yes, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:And then sometimes just like butts, just no last name, which is like another jb. Yeah, so that type of another celeb nickname yes, yeah, absolutely, and then sometimes just like butts, just yeah, last name yeah right, that's cool that's always fun. So thanks which there is a pretzel company called utz oh yeah and they would make pretzels utz nuggets.
Speaker 2:And so I have a friend, tommy, who calls me butts nuggets so it morphed from and he used to write the b, like if we had a big thing of them, like in our dorm room of like he would write the b and it would say butts nuggets on it.
Speaker 1:I love it yeah okay, that's another thing where it's like we're talking about the wisdom of nicknames. It's like we could talk about the wisdom of just like simply having a nickname and does it feel like a rich experience which for me it does. But also we all had the friend who's given nicknames left and right and one person giving them 17 different nicknames.
Speaker 3:I love that, I think it's so fun.
Speaker 1:I don't know if I'm quite that person. Well, actually you and I were with a co-worker who will remain unnamed, or we asked him if we could name him like several different things and he vetoed all oh right, that's right. Yeah, that was fun but yeah, like it's so, but it almost makes you that resistance.
Speaker 2:Want to find the nickname that the person's going to embrace so then you like, double down on it.
Speaker 3:You have to get a hundred different ones.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're gonna call, going to call you this.
Speaker 2:No, you're not. It's like. I'm not okay with that.
Speaker 1:Back to the drawing board, yeah because there are some people who are very anti. A nickname yeah. You know like no, no, my full name.
Speaker 2:Or often, like a parent will name a kid something you know and you're like, oh, I don't know if that'll be. Flip is also true. There are parents who name their kids something and they're like, well, they're not gonna go by that name.
Speaker 1:We're gonna call them this, right, they're not gonna go by which, from your tradition, they're gonna go by, larry.
Speaker 2:There's the John Jack right or the Jack John, or which way does it get what John's are?
Speaker 1:typically they go by Jack's right and I think that comes from when you're a John named after your dad. Okay, they call the dad, john, and the son Jack.
Speaker 2:Jack. Okay, typically, but there are people that go into it knowingly being like I'm not going to call my child that name ever because they're going to go by this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it'll just be on their birth certificate.
Speaker 2:So it's not really how wise is it to have a nickname. It's how wise is it to embrace one?
Speaker 1:or be open to one right. Be playful with it I think they're most wise when well, I think I'm not gonna say that, like when I was gonna say when you go by both your full name and your nickname, but you don't do that, and that's fine. Like I don't go, but you go by both your full name and your nickname, but you don't do that, and that's fine like I don't go, but you go by john jb. You go by a few, you don't go by jonathan does your?
Speaker 1:mom call you jonathan only when I'm in trouble. Yeah, I was gonna say when she's upset. My mom would use my middle name when she's like kelly patricia but my, my maternal grandfather always called me jonathan no matter what, and even that can be kind of sweet Someone who uses your full name and he used everybody's full name, so it was my brother's.
Speaker 2:Jake always goes by Jake, but his full name's Jacob and my grandfather, whenever he'd see us, he'd be like hey Jacob, hi Jonathan. That's kind of fun. And same thing my cousin Ken. His full name's Kenneth.
Speaker 3:But he always went by Ken.
Speaker 2:He cousin ken. His full name's kenneth, but he always went by ken. He'd always be like hey, kenneth, you know like he, he was just always like formal in that and would say he didn't even think twice about it because that was just his thing, right? But nobody else ever calls me jonathan jonathan.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, we have a joshua. What do you?
Speaker 3:think I don't, I don't go by joshua yeah, it sounds pretentious. But then sometimes people will like in an official setting like a doctor's office, they'll say what's your name and I'll be like Joshua, and then they'll call me Joshua later and I'll kind of be like you can call me Josh.
Speaker 1:I feel like I'm like asking the world of them Like oh, I'm sitting up here on my throne. Hand me some grapes, it's like well, if you're looking at the files, it's Joshua, but if you're looking into my eyes, it's Josh.
Speaker 2:You set the precedent by saying it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, just call me Josh, please just call me Josh, yeah, so it's like I would never.
Speaker 1:I mean this is the difference between different types of nicknames, because I would never say oh, it's Kelly, but call me Kel.
Speaker 3:That would sound crazy, you know like If you, you know, like if you had said that first date I might have embraced it like saying kel it's like kenan and kel it's like being like oh, it's thursday, but you can just call it thurs. You know it's like you're not gonna tell my name is josh, but just call me joss because you introduce yourself as how you want to be called.
Speaker 2:You don't introduce. So if you really wanted to be called Kelly, you would have just said I'm Kelly.
Speaker 1:I am Kelly.
Speaker 3:Yeah, right, which is an insane thing to say.
Speaker 1:Well, it's like maybe Kelly is like the one name. But you don't have to be another, or like like a girl named Allison that goes by Al. It's like that's like a, a pet name, almost like a familiarity. Like john, you go by john sally, go by kelly sally and then people who really love me make up their own little shortening for it sure which is cal, but it's like there's nothing in the universe. I would write the word cal on yeah that's fair.
Speaker 1:That's someone just like oh, it's almost like calling someone honey, you know, or sweetie, it's like it's a term of endearment. Some nicknames are a term of endearment and some are like this is what I go by. I go by juice box.
Speaker 2:And I guess you can name anybody anything, because you just said kenan and kel right, right, right but like joshua and jonathan, have names that the shortened version could just be the name that's my name like somebody's birth certificate, could just say jon, yeah right, or josh, which again people can name their kids whatever they want someone could name their kid kel.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but with your name.
Speaker 2:I feel like it's like yeah but even I wouldn't introduce myself and be like hi, I'm jonathan butts, you can call me john like that's just not how I would introduce myself, right, I just feel like I'm john woods yeah, yeah, that's what I go by.
Speaker 1:And then someone would be like, is that your christian name?
Speaker 2:and you'd be like technically, john, I get a lot more questions about my last name than I do my first name yeah you'd be like butts really, is that your real name?
Speaker 1:is it really? Is it a nickname? Is it a nick, last name is it? What? Yeah, yeah, it's like I think it's wise. I love a nickname. I think it's like sweet. I love to give someone a nickname. Yeah, to use a nickname. Or if they only go by a nickname, I think it is kind of fun to use their full name, which then love to give someone a nickname, yeah or to use a nickname, that's fun.
Speaker 1:Or if they only go by a nickname, I think it is kind of fun to use their full name, which then starts to feel like a nickname.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, my friend Meredith shout out to, meredith goes by Mary, which is a nickname M-E-R-R-I-E, mm-hmm, and I switch back and forth and I switch back and forth. I'll call her mary or I'll call meredith, I feel like, because josh has never met her.
Speaker 3:That's incredibly confusing if I refer to her as mary. Yeah, I would be like who's that?
Speaker 1:because meredith mary usually think m-a-r-y, right, right. She and I used to always say like she's like. Can you tell, when someone calls me mary and they're thinking m-a-r-y, I'm like, totally, she's like me. It's like there's something about the way they say it.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I can tell. But yeah, like sometimes I would say Meredith, and other people would be like isn't her name Mary? I'm like oh, I guess only some of us call her by the full name, or Madeline. Our friend Shout out to Maddie or Maddie, yeah. Yeah, like sometimes I'll call her Madeline.
Speaker 2:But usually, maddie, did you say this? I'm going back to the Meredith, do you?
Speaker 1:ever just say Mare? I don't think I've ever said Mare. She kind of doesn't go by Mare, she doesn't go by Mare. Or it's like how some Alisons go by Allie and some go by Al Al and they would never be Allie Interesting. Some Alexandras go by zander. I'm just kidding. Josh's sister's named alex and my niece somehow got it in her mind that her name is zander I kind of like that, though.
Speaker 2:That's so cute, but see, that's how a nickname could start totally because, then a kid says that and then again like term of endearment or just innocence, and and then that catches fire. And now people are calling her Xander at every family function.
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally, totally.
Speaker 2:Xander would be a cool nickname.
Speaker 1:I feel like that's fun, definitely yeah, very cool. Shout out to Saoirse.
Speaker 3:Shout out to Xander. Shout out to Xander.
Speaker 1:Yeah, new nickname it's been established. That's so cute, but yeah, I think it's wise. I think, like, use and abuse these nicknames.
Speaker 2:Now, if someone hates it and you're using it, it's a tough line to walk and I like the story behind it, like if there's really like a good organic like moment where it came about. I like knowing that detail. Yeah, me too, and I also like it some because I feel like there's been moments in my life where you didn't know somebody had one. And then they're around, somebody that you've met for the first time, and they call them something, and then you're just kind of like wait, what?
Speaker 2:yeah, you're like wait a second and then you're always caught off guard like, oh well, yeah, my friends from high school call me or you know or actually that's an old thing from like my family yeah, I love getting the the deets on a story yeah, like the dad's, like mookie, and you're like whoa whoa, whoa, like. The person almost tried to move on from the nickname, but people, still, people are still bringing it like back up and they're like wait what?
Speaker 1:I'm the person who's like back the car up?
Speaker 3:yeah, we can call you that. Yeah, we have my. Actually, I have the reverse my friend jesse.
Speaker 1:I was with her high school friends when I visited her in san francisco years ago and one of them was like jessica and I was like, oh, I've never once used her full name and I was like your high school friends call you jessica and she was like. Sometimes I'm like, oh my god, wow that like changes my brain right yeah, yeah, kind of fun. Do you have any like friends where you guys call them something different than their people in their adult life?
Speaker 3:what than people in their adult life? Yeah I'm thinking of every single friend. Does anyone have a name? It's almost like I wouldn't know, right, cause I'm not with them in their adult life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, enough.
Speaker 3:Enough.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I mean, I feel like a lot of us have crazy nicknames that I know they're not called, but then we'll also mostly call each other real names too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what about you? What are yours?
Speaker 3:Bean, bisneen Bear JB. I've gotten.
Speaker 2:JB yeah. Another JB yeah.
Speaker 3:Yash Jish.
Speaker 1:I call Josh Jish and that originated from my typo constant typo.
Speaker 3:Yeah, on my phone.
Speaker 2:You know, oh interesting.
Speaker 3:Yeah, wait, did you say Yish, jish, yash?
Speaker 2:Yash, yeah, yeah, because there was like an iteration where people were calling me Yanni.
Speaker 3:Oh, that's fun.
Speaker 2:Because it was like Johnny, but then it morphed into Yanni.
Speaker 3:Interesting. We both got the Y tree.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the.
Speaker 3:Y tree yeah.
Speaker 2:I love that Interesting. I know. So then I just started playing the piano and grew my hair out like Yanni, I don't know any famous Yashes.
Speaker 1:Well, that is a thing too, where it's like people will give you a celebrity nickname.
Speaker 2:Yeah like and that was like a very short iteration, yeah in my life, but there was a. There was definitely a moment that was memorable where people were like referring to me as yawning yeah oh, bonnie, my friend matt will call me bonnie oh, bonnie
Speaker 3:yeah like bonnie rates I had a distant cousin named bonnie winkler. Oh, and b-winks, I think. I thought I. I can't remember if that was. I don't even Like Bonnie Raitt. I had a distant cousin named Bonnie Winkler. Oh, bee Winks. I can't remember if Matt was. I don't even know how this started. Definitely Bee Winks. Yeah, I think we thought she had a funny name and we'd be like Bonnie Winkler, bonnie Winkler, and then Matt just started calling me Bonnie. I don't know if you ever met Bonnie.
Speaker 1:I like it.
Speaker 2:I love that.
Speaker 1:Wow, it's just been fun talking about nicknames, whether it's wise or not it's fun most of the how-wises devolve into like is this fun? Is this fun?
Speaker 2:it's not really about how wise, but I do think it is wise how fun is it.
Speaker 1:Do you watch, tim and Eric?
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:So, so funny. Tim Heidecker and Eric Wareheim but there's like a clip that we watch sometimes where they talk about going to space. They're like a comedy duo. He's like humans can't comprehend what it's like to go to space, what it's like to travel through space, because it's really really really what it's like to travel through space, because it's really really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really fun. That's incredible.
Speaker 2:That is incredible. It's really really, really, really, really really fun, that's great.
Speaker 3:What's the kid's name when they're having the birthday party? Um spray.
Speaker 1:That's great. What's the kid's name when they're having the birthday party? Spray, spray.
Speaker 3:Happy birthday, spray. We're very disappointed in you, spray. You've got to watch it. It's like comedy.
Speaker 1:Someone was lobotomized and made comedy.
Speaker 3:In the sketch it's short for Spray Nerd.
Speaker 1:Spray Nerd, it's crazy. Those who liked him and Eric, if you know. You know it's like Tim and Eric If you know, you know it's like Tim Robinson. Do you know him? I think you should leave. He makes that show on Netflix.
Speaker 3:Very funny.
Speaker 1:Friendship is that new movie? He's in with Paul Rudd Fabulous, yeah, if you like him, you like Tim and Eric Perfect.
Speaker 2:I'm in.
Speaker 1:But yeah, okay, maybe that's the note we end on.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we're done.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think we're done. We've exhausted it. Hopefully you have a little more.
Speaker 3:Sleep.
Speaker 1:Enlightenment around sleep, or at least we've raised some interesting questions about sleep and your own sleep hygiene and investigating that For sure If not, I can't help you. Yeah, I mean it's been Kel.
Speaker 2:It's been real, kel and Yash and Yanni this is Yanni signing off okay.
Speaker 1:Well, we will see you all next time. Thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 2:Yes thank you to Blanket Forts we go in reverse order.
Speaker 1:Here we usually yeah, we should go in reverse order, you go thank you to Kel.
Speaker 3:Thank you to Yann. I'd like to give a shout out to Josh Bear. Joshbearfilmscom is my Thank you to Kel. Thank you to Jan. I'd like to give a shout out to Josh Bear. Joshbearfilmscom is my website. Bear like the aspirin. And I'd like to give a shout out to Mouth Tape. Mouth Tape.
Speaker 1:Yes, sponsored by Mouth Tape.
Speaker 2:And I'm Jani. John you can always reach me at buttsjonathan at gmailcom. Okay, and I'm Kel reach me at botsjonathan at gmailcom.
Speaker 1:Okay, and I'm Kel, and if you want to contact me, you can reach me at kkpsychotherapycom. You can send me an inquiry there If you have questions about the pod suggestions. You want to work with me anything? Okay, Thank?
Speaker 3:you so much. Thanks everybody, good night, see you next time. Bye and good luck. Bye.
Speaker 1:The Wise Mind Happy Hour podcast is for entertainment purposes only, not to be treated as medical advice. If you are struggling with your mental health, please seek medical attention or counseling.