The Wise Mind Happy Hour
Two therapists musing about the idea of an inner wise mind and how to connect with this psychic space in different contexts.
The Wise Mind Happy Hour
Getting Wise on GROUP TRIPS
Group trips are TOUGH. Maybe you're vegetarian. Maybe you're a VEGAN even. Maybe you don't know how to bike, and you're secretly hoping there's no biking. Whatever the case, group trips can be equally challenging and fun, and accessing the WISE MIND can be tricky in these situations. But is it impossible? (SPOILER ALERT: maybe not.)
- music by blanket forts -
Okay, welcome to the Wise Mind Happy Hour mini episode. I'm Kelly.
Speaker 2:And I'm Josh replacing John Butts usual host.
Speaker 1:Yes, kind of standing in today for my co-host, john Butts, who has a busy end of the summer, and we decided, you know what? We'll just jump on here, we'll do a little mini episode and it'll be great and we'll miss John the whole time, but it'll also be great.
Speaker 2:We really miss John. I miss John a lot, but I also think this is going to be great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So what are we talking about today?
Speaker 2:We're talking about group trips.
Speaker 1:Well, yes, josh and I are going on a family trip with his family this week. So we thought to ourselves like it might be worth it for us to consider, like the wise mind on not just a family trip, because like we could do a whole episode on a family trip, but the wise mind and like a trip with a lot of people, or even not even necessarily a lot of people, like even a small group trip, you know, can be something, you know, worth us discussing, like how do you bring your wise mind to that? Because, yeah, it can be stressful can be hehmm it can be hectic.
Speaker 1:I mean in every case, every group trip I've been on, there's a lot of cooks in the kitchen.
Speaker 2:Lots of personalities.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Different eating preferences.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, the food of it all can be tough.
Speaker 2:Some people barely eat.
Speaker 1:Some people barely.
Speaker 2:Some people like to eat all the time yeah dietary restrictions.
Speaker 1:Like what does everyone like? What does everyone want to be doing, at whatever time Is it? Are we cool doing different things? Do we all need to be on the same page? Some people feel one way, some people feel another. Even the planning of it, as we're experiencing now, can be, you know, just like hectic and interesting. You're laughing.
Speaker 2:Well, there's a very specific trip coming up.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:My grandpa's 90th birthday party.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's which is not.
Speaker 2:Well, I guess in some ways it mirrors other trips with my family, which has a very particular ambiance and you know he's never turned. Well, I guess he has turned 90 before. Um, he turned 90 about a year ago in December so in a lot of ways, there's nothing new here, but I I've been sworn to secrecy. Um, by the time this, this episode, is coming out, I think our trip will be over, so I probably can speak openly. Um, I've been asked to do some, some things yeah, some some prep.
Speaker 2:I think there's a lot of uh not smoke and mirrors, but uh, I think it's a big production yes, well, in this trip specifically, which is not like every group trip, on this trip there's some.
Speaker 1:It's like a birthday trip, a huge milestone birthday 90 years so there's gonna be some games that are like specific to the 90th birthday, all these things. So this trip has that extra layer for us.
Speaker 2:There's a big bingo game going on, yeah, which I guess the tiles of the bingo board are going to be the faces of all of um, my grandpa's grandchildren and children, and wow he's doing a game of like showing pictures. He keeps asking for newborn pictures of kelly, or he'll say send me a picture of kelly in her 20s and then I'll send it and I'll say send one of her as a newborn yeah, he's wanting.
Speaker 1:He's wanting some photos of me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, photos of kelly and I don't like photos of myself. So every time someone asks for, asks for photos of me yeah, photos of kelly, and I don't like photos of myself. So every time someone asks for, asks for photos of me, there's a little squeeze of dread yeah, um, why do you hate photos of yourself? I don't know, I just don't think they look good. I don't think I'm photogenic and I don't even mean that necessarily in a self-deprecating or like humble way. I just think some people like the camera loves them.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I think it doesn't love me.
Speaker 2:You think you look so good that the camera doesn't properly represent how good you look.
Speaker 1:I mean, that dragged me right out. Yeah, no, I just think, when I look in the mirror, I feel like I see something different than what I see in a photo. Yeah, that bothers me.
Speaker 2:I look in the mirror, I feel like I see something different than I see in a photo. Yeah, well, I think there's me. I think a photo captures you in a very static moment and some people are better at either feigning that or like maybe capture. I don't even know what I look like, not in a photo right. Well in the mirror yeah, but I even then I'm performing like I don't know what I look like when I can't see myself. That sounds it's like the stupidest thing ever to say. But yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you never really know. I think anytime you see yourself or anytime you're being recorded whether it's looking in the mirror or being photographed I guess if you're like being filmed and you have no idea you're being filmed, you could like see yourself pretty candid.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And get a real sense of what you yeah like well, we, just you know, watched our whole wedding video and that I was like whoa, I didn't know that's what I look like.
Speaker 1:I knew that like I, you know, it's like you never watch yourself, like experiencing a whole night on I mean, I don't watch myself experience a whole night on camera and I was like, wow, interesting. But actually, after watching it a few times because you're editing different versions of it I um, I got used to it and I was like this is fine. At first I was like how do actors do this? Like watch themselves? It's gotta be so hard, but really, like I, I got used to it and it's great the watch.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was a good watch it was a good watch.
Speaker 1:Josh edited different versions of our wedding video. He showed me last night a four minute version that was spectacular. So really thanks, hon. I'm so happy about that. But since no one can see it, this is probably pretty uninteresting.
Speaker 2:But you can look out for it on mooby.
Speaker 1:We're gonna be premiering it on mooby we're gonna be air premiering it on mooby. Yeah, it's like an oscar qualifier. Our wedding video yeah, of course, and it'll be streaming on mooby yeah, but maybe before we even get into the group trip stuff, we should talk about a couple of new things in our life um one of which we're sitting on yeah, can you see?
Speaker 2:it's hard when we're recording to see in the shot. I think I have an idea of what this looks like. I think you can see our new couch, yeah, well and also like we only post clips, not the whole no episode.
Speaker 1:So in clips if you see clips on our social media, you might see this. I mean, the color is called banks zinnia from joybird and it's it's like a soft version of like burnt sienna color, maybe a yeah, a little softer than that. Um, we love it. It's a section also makes us feel like we have so much comfortable seating.
Speaker 2:It's incredible it's kind of like a dragon red. No, no, no, you don't think a dragon would be this tall.
Speaker 1:I thought you were joking. Dragon red, I guess.
Speaker 2:I've seen a lot of dragons this exact color.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but it's like soft, Like I think it's a soft color.
Speaker 2:It's great. It's not the texture of a dragon.
Speaker 1:You tell us if you look in the clips. But yeah, so we're sitting on this couch and also I cut my hair. I chopped my hair off.
Speaker 2:Big change yeah.
Speaker 1:Again, as I'm saying this, I'm like who could possibly care, but it's a big change for me. Yeah, it feels good, anything new with you.
Speaker 2:With me. Well, you got a haircut.
Speaker 1:You're acting as if we live together. Well, you're telling the audience oh yeah, come on, we're on a podcast, podcast. Yeah yeah, did you forget for a sec?
Speaker 2:no, I didn't forget, I'm just giving you a hard time. Okay, uh, I got my haircut, and by brio yeah brio ruiz. Um, he's gonna be a guest on the pod. He going to be a guest on the pod. He's going to be a guest on the pod. He has been cutting my hair for four times now For four times For four times.
Speaker 2:For four times now, I haven't really had a haircut person. Since I was really young I had a Roland Shout out Roland. I don't know his last name, but he would cut my hair. In West Bloomfield, born and raised.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:She cut hair in West Bloomfield born and raised yeah, she cut my hair for like years, you know, back when, like my mom was paying for my haircut Right, and since I've, you know, become an adult, I have had just kind of gone. I would get $10 haircuts, crazy cuts, in Los Angeles. Like every time I got my haircut it was a different person. And since I got to Chicago I've been going to floyd's and like I've maybe gotten the same people once or twice, but I've never no one's like brio no one's like brio.
Speaker 2:He's gotten me to use hair product.
Speaker 1:He cuts my hair in a way that I like I mean you can get a straight man to use a hair product, especially like a straight man from the midwest he has product in his hair. You almost deserve a Nobel Prize. You know, I think I mean every straight man or from around here. That I know is like product. What does that even mean?
Speaker 2:well, I think it was a combo between Brio and you and me because you had been urging me for a while and, like you know, he seemed like a really cool guy and he wasn't being pushy about it and he was like your hair looks fine. Now he's like you could do nothing to your hair and it's gonna look good. I'm jealous of your hair.
Speaker 1:If you put in product, it's gonna look a thousand times better yeah well, because I always know about you you love second day hair and what I know about that as a woman who deals with hair shit all the time. Second day hair probably means that, like first day, you probably want to put a product in it to make it look a little more like second day hair yeah you know a little more coiffed, so yeah, I'm a little more curated now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm trying a little harder to look good, to look like I don't try so I can get these directing jobs so I can get these editing jobs and so people will think I just have effortless beauty yeah, but a lot of work goes into it and yeah but yeah, anyway, we won't cut our hair, who cares?
Speaker 1:yeah, but, but we love our couch and it's like going to be on the pod.
Speaker 2:So it's so tell us what you think of it. I know Care, please care. Yeah, I realized I was referencing the camera and if you're listening to this, you're not seeing the camera Cause we're not putting whole film. I'm just repeating what you said.
Speaker 1:One day we may put full episodes on YouTube or something but for now just clips, but also let us know if you're interested in that.
Speaker 2:Let us know if you're interested in sponsoring our show and sponsoring our content.
Speaker 1:We are looking for sponsorship, absolutely we're looking for sponsorship For the right sponsorship.
Speaker 2:For the right sponsorship, clean sponsorship.
Speaker 1:Aligned sponsorship. Yeah, okay, anyway. Anyway, let's get to it. Josh, full disclosure. Josh and I are a little bit hungry, hungover. Josh is a little hungover. From yesterday we went out to dinner. I'm not in a good mood. Well, now I'm in a better mood.
Speaker 2:Well, tell everyone why it was really hard to set these mics up. Yeah, we had some issues with the mics today and I think they're good. Now they're kind of like I think we need a new footstool. Long story short, we don't have a great structure to mount the mics on where they're not, like when we get the mics. This is really interesting. When we get the mics stable, they seem to only really be stable in a way where they're blocking our faces in the shot.
Speaker 1:And we don't want that, and we don't want that, we want people to see our faces.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and we don't want that, and we don't want that.
Speaker 1:we want people to see our faces yeah, so we're working on it but it was frustrating before it was frustrating, yeah kelly made me a piece of toast.
Speaker 2:I didn't like eat it for 20 minutes and I was like starting to get pretty hungry and yeah yeah, I'm a little hungover. I had a verner's float last night. I I had whiskey, beer and tequila. Over the course of the night we watched Final Destination 1. I guess we're gonna watch all the Final Destinations now because they're on HBO Max.
Speaker 2:It was a fun night woke up and then I just had one of those mornings you got up at 8 and I kept kind of waking up and I was like I'm just not feeling good about the day. It's like this horror of getting out of bed. So that was going on and, um, yeah, it hasn't been an awful day, but no, I'm getting waves of sporadic waves of nausea yeah and yeah, I've just got a pretty negative outlook.
Speaker 2:I'm I'm feeling irritable. No, I'm not really feeling negative, I'm feeling overall good about yeah, I mean, I think that's pretty common with a hangover. You know irritability yeah, I think I'm like very easily stressed out by minor things yeah, totally like about making three videos for my grandpa's 90th birthday, but yeah because that's not stressful, um, and I'm also between gigs out editing, so I like technically have time to do it, but I have about like 17 other projects I'm working on. So you know I'm no slacker no definitely yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's one of those sundays where there's kind of a lot of stuff for us to do, but also we want to just relax watch final destination too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're gonna watch the next one tonight, yeah um, but yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, this kind of brings us into the group trip, because you're prepping this stuff for a group trip and let's think about, like, bringing your wise mind.
Speaker 2:Bringing your wives mind.
Speaker 1:Bringing your wise mind into the a group trip, you know, because it's. It's almost like how do you reach a sense of, you know, the wise mind being that like inner place where you're integrated, all the parts of you feel integrated, and there's this inner kind of source guiding you self, the wise mind self, the wise mind source energy. Some people might call it that kind of like core place within. We talk about it a lot on here being like spaciousness. So, yeah, it's almost like how do you find internal spaciousness in the noise and chaos of a group trip? Because the noise and chaos that, more so, you've been facing I haven't directly been facing this with this trip is sort of like planning how the activities that are planned for this trip are going to go, and you're really orchestrating a lot of the media behind it, of course, because you're a, you're a fabulous I'm an av guy, av audio visual.
Speaker 2:you're a fabulous producer. I'm an AV guy AV audiovisual. You're a film guy. I'm a film guy, yeah, so they're asking a lot of you, yeah, and I think everyone thinks they're the only one asking me anything and everyone's kind of like well, a video component would be great. Let's do a music video. It can all be one shot, like Paul Thomas Anderson's none of his movies are literally one shot. He'll be on the trip. He is my grandpa. My grandpa, or Paul Thomas Anderson Wouldn't that be cool, I was joking that.
Speaker 2:Paul Thomas Anderson is coming on the trip.
Speaker 1:I liked your joke.
Speaker 1:I just completely unraveled it. But yeah, so, yeah, that is some of the noise coming in. But like even let's think about even noise we've faced. Or when I think about like trips in general, it often starts with, like you know someone sending out a group text, hey, thinking about, want to do a group trip. You know whether that's your family or a friend want to do a group trip? Think, in this place, you know. Or we were invited by our friends who are already going on a group trip with some friends to stockholm, right, or yeah, yeah sweden and maybe denmark.
Speaker 1:We didn't end up going on this trip. No, and I'm kind of glad we didn't go well, we ended up having so much busyness and so many other things to do. I still desperately want to go to Scandinavia. I think that would be so cool, but it was probably for the best that we didn't go on that trip.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think the timing, our financial stature at the time, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we were like spending on our wedding. Yeah, spending on the wedding.
Speaker 2:Yeah, spending on engagement.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. It's like that ended up being for the best. But then, of course, you're like when's the next time friends are going to invite us to Scandinavia? It's like, are we?
Speaker 2:off the list now. Will they never ask us again? Are they listening to the pod now? Do they know how much I want to go on a future trip?
Speaker 1:Well, this is a difficulty with a group trip, you know. It's like someone has to get the ball rolling. Mm-hmm. And they might get it rolling at a time that's not ideal for other people in the group. There's no way for it to be the ideal timing.
Speaker 2:You got to like try to roll together.
Speaker 1:So you kind of have to sometimes like take a leap and do it when the timing's not great or financially you don't feel great or whatever. You know you might have to do that or you might have to say no, but yeah, everyone's gonna come in from a different place yeah, and you can probably pretty much at any time in time in your life find a reason why it's like doesn't work yeah, yes, and just never do anything, never go, yeah, and that's the struggle.
Speaker 1:I remember once my uncle telling me like when I had graduated from college, like before I had any work and before I was in grad school, he was like you really gotta travel. And then he said this thing because I was thinking to myself like I don't really think I can afford that. But he said he was like one day you'll have the money, but you'll never again have the time.
Speaker 2:And I was like I don't know if that's accurate.
Speaker 1:Well, sure, but it did stay with me. I think it was a helpful piece of advice in that and I think this is so true. I talk with clients about this all the time. That are basically clients like in their 20s and maybe early 30s yeah, before kids, especially before partnership. You know like, especially if you're working and making some money and and able to budget yourself to like put aside some for travel, it's great to do with them because you have such swaths of time open. You don't have children or maybe pets, yet you know like there's not a ton to tend to a lot of people then don't have aging parents. You know there's a, there's an untetheredness that won't be there again.
Speaker 2:and now you can I I believe in our mantra is like we can be tethered and still travel yeah, I think it'd be so fun to take like a kid totally not some random kid like if we were to have a kid just like pick a kid off the street. If we were to have a kid together to take them on a trip.
Speaker 1:Sounds like so much fun yeah, totally, totally and we, we will do that, you know. God bless, we have a kid yeah but we will do that. But I I think I did take to heart what he was saying. I didn't have to take it so literally, but the idea of like, really let yourself do adventurous things this time especially.
Speaker 1:And he was kind of saying, even if you sort of have to stretch yourself a little financially, sure, and I thought that was interesting. You know, not everyone would agree with that, but it was a helpful thing for me to at least ponder at that age, yeah, so I mean, and he was probably saying backpack, you know, hostels like nothing fancy and too expensive, yeah, which I think is good advice too. And also at that age you're going to be way more down for that. You know your creature comforts will be a little less like embedded in you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm still down to sleep on the floor.
Speaker 1:I know you are, I'm not really, but you never know.
Speaker 2:I mean maybe, but Maybe not, though.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but yeah like. So then, there's the planning and there's always going to be some people more comfortable or some people maybe more in the decision making role. I actually was just talking to my hairstylist getting my haircut yesterday and talking about struggles with group trips and like friends who kind of won't pull the trigger but say they're interested and my hairstylist, Sam, shout out to Sam who maybe one day will be on the pod.
Speaker 2:Would, love.
Speaker 1:He said he was like I think I'm that friend, hairstylist sam shout out to sam, who maybe one day will be on the pod, would love. He said, um, he was like I think I'm that friend and I was like what do you mean? He's like I think I'm the one who's like he goes. I will pull the trigger. He's like.
Speaker 1:But I'm like the one who's like down to go, but like I don't have any opinions, I don't make any decisions, I just kind of want to go with the flow. He goes. I won't set up a trip, I won't plan a trip, I'll just kind of like glom on to one. And I was like honestly, I love that, I would love to have you on a trip if I think of a place to go and you're just like down to go. I was like you and I would work perfectly on a group trip. But he's like I think sometimes I annoy some of my friends because I won't speak up about any opinions or ever plan well, maybe his friends are a little judgmental possibly totally, because if everyone's trying to plan it.
Speaker 1:That could be annoying too well, maybe this gets us into what's wise-minded like playing the role you play in owning it.
Speaker 2:I know I'm more of a sam yeah I mean I planned my bachelor party like I can plan.
Speaker 2:I think I am very comfortable in the role of going with the flow yeah because I think a lot of the time, I guess, in terms of like what to do on a trip I wouldn't say with everything, but specifically with like what to do on a trip I think I like so many things and then a lot. I feel like a lot of people I find who aren't me, are a little more like have an agenda, so it's like, okay, I can come up with this list of things, like get them shot down anyway, and be equally, equally happy doing whatever like someone else, like really has their heart set on yeah so, like it's like, I'm gonna let the divas just like plan the trip well, yeah, maybe that's a thing like notice, like you know no judgment, but like who might be the diva or who might be really comfortable in the decision making role.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know, we talked on this podcast once about human design, which was like so funny for us to talk about. But, like in my type of human design they say like the manifestor, kind of, is the one that's supposed to initiate things and initiate decisions. Pick the restaurant, pick the location of the trip, whatever. I'm okay with doing that or not doing that. I'm kind of in the middle where it's like I'll glom onto a trip or like I will plan one.
Speaker 1:You know, my issue with planning one is I always have like an inner voice or a part of me telling me no one wants to go on this, no one's going want to do this yeah, you kind of need to like almost not care what other people are gonna think which neither of us are great at have to be kind of brave yeah sit with that part because it's so much easier if you're not like second guessing every decision as you're coming up with it yes like, like thinking of all the people and being like oh well, this person won't like.
Speaker 1:This person doesn't like chinese, so we can't go to chinese and it's like but this person's like favorite food is chinese, so we have to go to chinese once and it's like well that you could just get like stuck then yes, and it's the food piece for us is really hard, you know, because a lot of people have between vegetarians, gluten-free people, peanut allergy people, dairy-free people, you get a big enough preferences, yeah it can be tricky to like find dishes to either make or places to go out right it really can be pretty challenging. The food part can be a lot.
Speaker 2:So yeah, it's like again it's a lot of pressure to be the one like picking the restaurant that, especially with like food. It's a lot of pressure to be the one like picking the restaurant that, especially with like food.
Speaker 1:it's a lot of responsibility. Yeah, yeah, it is totally yeah. So I think first we're saying noticing like what are the different roles people are likely to take? Who feels comfortable with what? It's interesting like I've never been on a group trip that didn't have like some issues to it. Hopefully this is my thought with a group trip and this is where I find my wise mind the most With the issues that come up, like once the trip is planned, especially and you're there, maybe you're on the plane or you're at the hotel or whatever. Let's say it's like the room is so much shittier than you thought it would be and someone else picked it or something gets messed up. It's like really slowing down, and I really do like to find humor in the parts that end up not working out.
Speaker 2:Humor is the fix, all isn't it.
Speaker 1:Well, it really can be, you know, and with everything, with something serious or like interpersonal conflict, yeah is one thing. But like, if you walk in, I remember my friends and I went to right before I met you, or maybe this was actually a year before I met you. My friends and I went to miami on a trip my friend kathleen, megan, jesse and me and I kind of spearheaded the trip and jesse had encouraged me like we should go to this freehand hotel.
Speaker 2:They have really reasonable room rates freehand is the name of the hotel.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's a freehand hotel in chicago, there's one in miami is that just like a type of?
Speaker 2:is that just like a hotel chain?
Speaker 1:so it's yes and no, because what I learned and actually booking it and going the hotel itself is great, like there, there's a really cool bar restaurant in it called the Broken Shaker, which the one in Miami is beautiful, all this like vegetation, and it's so cool and the drinks are so good and the food's good and it's all around a really picturesque like pool.
Speaker 2:Pool bar. The weather was great. Is there a bar inside the pool?
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:Love that.
Speaker 1:No, it's like just a pool and then there's like all the stuff surrounding it still nice, still nice still great still nice don't worry, I like it um and it was great. But then we get up to the room. The room is a glorified hostel oh my god, and it's. That's kind of the thing with the freehand. They like charge very little for the rooms all four of us were in like barracks. It was like bunk beds with a tiny bathroom.
Speaker 1:That was like so kind of shitty but, honestly, it was so fun because it was so ridiculous for us, like in our 30s, like we thought we're gonna have like a hotel room, and it was like tiny little bunk beds that we were like cocooned in each of us and it was really fun.
Speaker 1:It makes me laugh now because we had so many little mishaps like getting dressed in the same room, getting getting ready for dinner in Miami. We're all like doing up our makeup and our going out outfits Four of us trying to use a bathroom. It was crazy and it ended up being so fun and funny because of that. So it made it better than having some fancy room.
Speaker 2:It can be a bonding experience to have things go bad yeah, totally, and it wasn't even bad than having some fancy. It can be a bonding experience to have things go bad yeah, totally and it wasn't even bad.
Speaker 1:It was just like jesse. Jesse was like I'm so sorry, like I stayed with my sister and the two-person room we stayed in was very different. She's like it wasn't fancy, but it wasn't this. It wasn't like an army room, yeah, but then you know, the rest of the hotel was so cute, it didn't really matter and it got us out of the hotel. We went to the beach, went to the pool, went out to eat, like, walked around, like really enjoyed ourselves and each other. That was great. It ended up being so great and fun and like we were so up each other's asses basically because we were so close together that so many funny things happen. We have so many inside jokes from that trip. It was just so fun.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And yeah, anytime we were like, oh, let's take a break from the hot sun, and like it was like four of us, it was almost like we were in college again, like four of us in these bunk beds like reading or listening to music.
Speaker 2:It was kind of fun it was so fun.
Speaker 1:Regressive it was regressive in the best way, and I remember like someone could have been pissed about the room and through it. All of us were cool about it and made jokes about it, which, like the four of us, are very good at doing. Yeah, it's a pretty funny group.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so we just like went with it, had so much fun and yeah, it was great, it was a great trip, I loved it, I had so much fun with them and yeah, so I think that can be a big tool that I'll reach for, which is like it's just funny if something goes off. But yeah, like that'll frequently be kind of an issue sometimes if people don't like the quarters, or we've had the issue where you get to the Airbnb, the good rooms are taken, or the question is who gets the good rooms? Cause there's two great ones.
Speaker 2:It could be a barbarian situation where there's like a creature living in the Airbnb. Yeah sure.
Speaker 1:But what do you think Like with that situation? Like there's always like famous real housewives shots where you know they're like running for the room that they want, like banshees, like going crazy. You know we've come where. It's like we're the third one there and it's kind of like, oh, I guess we'll take this shitty room, a shitty room, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm probably happier to take the shitty room because I'm a bit of a martyr yeah my biggest fear is like that other people are gonna like be like oh, josh took the good room yeah, and he's like a stuck-up little bitch, so I'd always rather be the one to take like the bad room. And what does that say about me? I don't know. Well, am I a nice person? Do I have no self-worth? I don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah somewhere in between. Well, it's like I'll, I won't be the one who's like I'm taking the good room, but you care, but I will want that room.
Speaker 2:I know, and I know that now that we're an item, part of my you know job as the husband is to like advocate for your needs.
Speaker 1:Right, right, so which I can also do myself.
Speaker 2:I'm more likely now to care about that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but it is a tricky thing. Like you know, I'm almost like more like we should draw straws. So then it then really, whoever gets the nice room, I won't feel resentful. I think when it's like someone gets there and picks it or takes it, like I notice, I will have some resentment.
Speaker 2:That will come up for me on a group trip and a lot of it's around your like routine right, Like let's talk about why you need like a certain space to be a certain way.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, like I, I don't pack that light, so I like to like spread out my stuff.
Speaker 2:You're a heavy packer.
Speaker 1:It's on the heavy end Definitely and I like to spread out my stuff. I'd like to have like room on the shelf in the bathroom. I mean if we could have our own bathroom on all these trips like his and her sinks on earth. Oh, I mean, his and her sinks is like a bonus even to that. But do really like to feel comfortable.
Speaker 1:Maybe there's like a chair in the corner you can like read your book, maybe you have a belt maybe you have a balcony patio off of your room oh, amazing, amazing, or even just like the most comfortable bed is so nice yeah, tempur-pedic or yeah, but yeah, I think it's like if someone kind of just like takes the nicer rooms and we're all paying the same uh-huh if they're the person who planned everything and did all the work, usually it doesn't bother me, but if it's anyone else I notice, I often do feel some resentment and it's not like like I you know I can be my wise mind wants to be curious about that feeling and I might, you know, like explore it if I can slow down, get in touch with that wise mind, like talk to the resentful part of me and notice what it's needing in the moment, kind of like we did with you today.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But often I'll just kind of you know, because it's also like so busy and noisy on a trip, a group trip, that I might just feel the resentment and not be so conscious and wise minded.
Speaker 2:I think a lot of times that happens. It's just making you kind of like grumpy or agitated yeah yes, hungry or tired, disconnected.
Speaker 1:Disconnected yeah.
Speaker 2:Feeling unworthy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally.
Speaker 2:Feeling like the middle child. Oh, big time Not being heard. Yeah, no one's thinking about your needs. Yeah, so what's the wisdom? I mean? Finding wisdom in a romantic relationship is challenging enough. It's a lot of balancing each other's needs oh yeah finding wisdom on a group trip. It's like why even try? Well, yeah, I'm like in a relationship with these nine other people right, six other people or, and a lot of the time, maybe they're your favorite people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, and I think the conflict that comes up over and over or like the situation we don't have to call it a conflict or an issue the situation that's a very wise-minded word, right to take the judgment out of it. The situation you're often faced with is what do we do now? And you'll get a mixture of people who won't speak up or don't speak up, like what do we do now, and you'll get a mixture of people who won't speak up or don't speak up.
Speaker 2:Like what do we do now activity-wise?
Speaker 1:With anything? Do we pull the trigger on this?
Speaker 2:Airbnb. Okay, where?
Speaker 1:do we go to dinner? We've been robbed.
Speaker 2:Do we play a game?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, do we Do charades. Or is it the kind of group where they're like do we take mushrooms, you know, do charades? Or is it the kind of group where they're like do we take mushrooms you know, yeah, we've been in that situation. So you know, it's like what? What do we do now is often that situation, and I think it's like what's the ideal right, like if we wave a magic wand. The ideal is we all share and then kind of collaborate together on some, you know, like negotiation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, of what to do.
Speaker 1:But that isn't often how it unfolds. There's a lot of kind of shy people.
Speaker 2:People who really speak up and are pushy, and then people who really speak up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's often kind of a mix that I've noticed. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I guess in this, like utopian, we're gonna call it the wise trip on a wise trip well, it's almost just the perfect trip, because a wise trip doesn't have to be perfect or utopian no, well, I don't even want to use the word perfect ideal yeah, I'd say a trip where everyone walks away feeling satisfied.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, for lack of a like a snappier term probably is a trip where everyone's doing a little planning, everyone is like kind of speaking up and everyone is also thinking about everyone else's needs, in a way where no one's really obsessing over anything and everyone's just kind of being like present and mindful, but also not afraid afraid to speak up about their own preferences yeah, well, it's like respecting self, respecting others and really holding that dialectic, yeah, and you're not going to do it perfectly like, you're probably going to hurt someone's feelings at some point.
Speaker 2:Someone's probably going to like want to do something you don't want to do, and that doesn't mean you can't still, overall, have a great, meaningful time and repair any issues that come up and yeah, definitely, but yeah.
Speaker 1:so I think maybe that's a real mindset to go in with, right, like noticing the situations that arise, the decisions that are to be made at each moment of the trip, and considering this idea of like slowing down, tuning inward, respecting myself, respecting the group and each person in it, and thinking I'm going to do a balancing of that, I'm going to hold that tension really between those two things. And this is where, like, wisdom comes in. There isn't some perfect recipe. You know, we talk about wise mind sometimes being that like intersection of emotion mind and rational mind, but they never perfectly intersect. There's no like 50 of this.
Speaker 1:50 it's, it's always much more abstract and much more intuitive in the real decision making, right. So it's like so-and-so wants to go to the barbecue place, two people want to go to Chinese, one person wants sushi and four people aren't speaking up. You know, really it's like how might we bring the wise mind to that, yeah, situation? I think it might be offering like is there even another way to look at this? Right? Do we want to split up for dinner?
Speaker 2:Right, what if we split up for dinner?
Speaker 1:Do we want to make something that incorporates some of these flavors? Do we want to find a place that has a mix?
Speaker 2:We could carry out from a bunch of different places. Eat on the porch, Eat on the porch.
Speaker 1:You know, is our main, what's our highest priority with the center? To all be together at a restaurant To eat the food we all each want to eat, kind of like being creative with what's brought to the front.
Speaker 2:Yeah, creativity is important in all of this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally.
Speaker 2:Innovation.
Speaker 1:And, I think, radically accepting that there's no perfect answer right really like and the wise mind is always bringing it. It's never seeking that perfect answer. It's seeking like what feels aligned, given the moment, given the context. And sometimes what feels aligned is like sitting with tension, you know, eating something that's not your ideal choice at that moment, because your value of connection is a higher priority in that moment.
Speaker 2:Can I embrace this? Yeah, but still make space. For the part of me, that's like damn. I want to eat something else. Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1:And you know we all have moments like I've actually been with a group for four days and I really just want tacos tonight so maybe I'll even go by myself and get tacos, but if you do that, there is a wise-minded way to do it and kind of an emotion-minded way to do it where you're just like I'm out of here you know yeah versus.
Speaker 1:Like I really want to do this, I'm looking forward to it. Does anyone want to come? Or even telling the group like I kind of want a solo night and I'm gonna go grab some tacos yeah but I'll see you all when I get back I'm gonna spend the night all by myself yeah I'm gonna get tacos, I'm gonna go to the strip club by myself and then I'm gonna come back and watch porn on my phone by myself, again by myself
Speaker 1:yeah, and then tomorrow we can all hang out yeah, tomorrow I'll be back, and then everyone's like tomorrow we won't like you, no, I think. But but like, really like again that respecting yourself and I always put that part first, like when I talk about it in clinical settings and think about it for myself like the self-respect is sort of the genesis of that capacity and spaciousness for everything else, like it's like self-compassion creates a settledness with self that allows for like infinite energy for others, that like true self-worth, true self-energy, true wise mind creates a settledness that generates energy, energizes the spaciousness is within.
Speaker 2:Yes, and you're gonna light up yourself and people around you if you can access it. Yeah, and it's gonna be forever challenged yeah things don't go your way yeah, don't want it don't want to eat chinese right need tacos need.
Speaker 2:But can I find the self-compassion regardless of how things go? Yeah, it's like, a lot of the time what really is the worst is kind of the like, reading between the lines of what does this all mean? Yeah, like, okay, this isn't the ideal meal. Is that that big of a deal? Or is the big deal that I feel like I'm a pushover and I never speak up? Yeah, can I love myself even though I'm kind of a pushover? Can I embrace that or do I want to be?
Speaker 2:different, like if I really connect to my self-worth. Am I like at peace being someone who speaks up less, or I guess there's like no perfect answer.
Speaker 1:I'm also probably talking autobiographically that's wise-minded, that there's no perfect answer. Yeah, yeah, in that space there's like no perfect answer. I'm also probably talking autobiographically.
Speaker 2:But that's wise-minded, that there's no perfect answer, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:In that space there's no need for perfection. Yeah, I don't need to like.
Speaker 2:I don't need to write some you know synopsis or rule book of like how I'm going to handle everything. It probably depends on my mood and depends on the situation and the group of people and the vibe.
Speaker 1:It vibe momentary like what's right there? Presence right. Yeah, let go of everything else and, like, listen in to the present moment I mean that is always and forever.
Speaker 1:The access to wise mind is presence, presence noticing what is here in the present moment. Externally, internally, yeah, and you know like you're bringing up a good point right it's like sometimes, like with clients, with myself, like if I think about you and I taking kind of a shitty room this was like over a year ago at a cabin, kind of at the shittiest room cabin in the woods yeah, and we, you know, it's like I could feel a part of me really like resisting that and feeling resentful about that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, second class citizen. Notice that part of me and really flesh it out right, like what is it really saying to me? If I listen to it, if I turn to it, I think it was saying at the time, if I remember and put myself in that headspace, you know it's resisting it because if it didn't resist it and I accepted this, there might be a pain there or a shadow there, a belief about self there that this part of me wants to protect me from right. So if I accept this less quality room, lower quality room, then I am a second class citizen and I have to live in that and feel that and the hurt of that, the loss in that.
Speaker 1:you know, which probably you know, like everything links to, like early childhood, links to the past in some way the original trauma right the touchstone the touchstone you know, like something in the past or many past things yeah and sometimes even just gaining awareness of that right, like if I accept this, then what will believe about myself, comes up. What shadow comes up I'm not good enough.
Speaker 1:I'm a second class citizen, like I'm second best, has come up for me a lot, and being a middle child, you know an older brother that's very capable and talented and got a lot of attention for that. You know like I think, yeah, a lot of stuff can come up. You know even me saying that now I feel like for not, and this isn't always the case, but I feel even like a softening when I recognize like, oh, if I accept this room, that's less good. I mean, I'm a second class citizen and really myself my wise mind rises up right then and knows that isn't true.
Speaker 2:You're not a second class citizen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but sometimes that wise mind, it takes more work with that part to really get the part to move aside a little bit and see the wise mind and let the wise mind care for it. Yeah. Instead of the other way around. Mind, care for it. Yeah, instead of the other way around. You know, notice, you know you can sleep in this room and not be a second class citizen you can be a first class citizen.
Speaker 2:Yeah, maybe you're the best one out there yeah you're self-sacrificing, still being present, still embracing your time with your friends.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know, even if the part does step aside and you accept the room, it doesn't actually mean you might not say halfway through the trip can we switch, if it's a long trip or whatever, you might still do some move of problem solving. Yeah, but you leave that up to the wise mind who has that infinite capacity for compassion for you, compassion for others, that softness and wisdom to go through. You know that that, like clarity. I always consider it like that can be the most salient way to describe it Clarity Versus like.
Speaker 2:Oh, I'm in this like foggy haze of feeling, like I'm a second class citizen. I'm gonna make all these kind of like desperate decisions out of like anger. Yeah, I'm like walking around in this haze of like feeling not good enough but like I don't want anyone to know. I think this it's like versus like yeah, yeah, this room kind of sucks. Like maybe I can find some humor in that and maybe we could switch halfway through or I can sleep in it the whole time, and maybe next time try to get there quicker. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Can I like think this sucks without thinking that I suck?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and just for you all to know because I'm going to defend myself here for a second there was like sand in the bed. When we got there, there was all this sand inside that bed. Was it a bed bug? No, it was like people had been in the sand, slept with sand, probably all over their feet. Like the previous curb and the Airbnb host never washed the sheets.
Speaker 2:Sand can be pernicious.
Speaker 1:And yeah, it was like not pleasant to sleep in that Someone else's sandy probably dirty sheets.
Speaker 2:Why do I not remember?
Speaker 1:that I don't know, probably because it didn't bother you as much.
Speaker 2:I get like so unbothered sometimes by things that bother you so much, and then I get like so bothered by other things yeah, it's true, we have very different.
Speaker 1:We have different.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we have very different triggers like I feel like I could sleep in a sandy bed and like barely notice you're more like is everybody mad at me?
Speaker 1:and and I'm a little more like, is everybody disrespecting me?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, we have different trauma.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, we're different people.
Speaker 2:Different touchstones.
Speaker 1:Different touchstones? Yes, we do, but yeah. So what do we think, like, as we like, wind this down, what's some of our intention, or what is our intention, your intention, intention, my intention for the upcoming trip, and like just contacting that wise mind when we inevitably get away from it, reconnecting to that self-energy, what do you think you want to do? And I can say, maybe, what I want to do okay, let's take turns.
Speaker 2:I'll go first. Yeah, I want to find the humor and everything. Yeah, I want to go in expecting I love hearing that from that there's going to be a lot of there. There's going to be a lot of strong personalities, a lot of a lot of conversation around seemingly not that important choices. We may spend much of the trip talking about what we're going to do rather than actually doing things. There's going to be a lot of wanting to please my grandpa, which is okay to say.
Speaker 1:It's his birthday, he's 90.
Speaker 2:It's his birthday. He is a god, he's the god. Grandma's great too, she's a goddess and yeah, yeah, I think I love everyone a lot. It's a crazy group of people and I think we're gonna find the humor in it and I think we're gonna figure out a way to gently set boundaries, and I don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love hearing you say you're going to find the humor in things Cause sometimes that is a struggle for you with your family.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sometimes it is, and sometimes it really isn't Right.
Speaker 1:Right, but I could see a future for us in the next week of either of us finding the humor and if the other can open up to it, really yeah.
Speaker 2:Diffusing yeah either of us finding the humor and if the other can open up to it, really, yeah, diffusing, yeah exhaling, in that moment. But I can be a little perfectionist in like needing to perfectly navigate everything. Yeah, yeah, where I'm like being gentle with you and I'm being gentle with my family and I'm like handling everything delicately and I'm like setting boundaries without like upsetting anyone and like you know, and then I'll just get like agitated and kind of constipated because there's no real way to do that yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I feel like there's gonna be moments where maybe we set boundaries and it upsets people. There may be moments where we don't set boundaries and it upsets people. There may be moments where we don't set boundaries and it upsets you and like that doesn't mean we're like doing the trip wrong.
Speaker 1:Yeah, finding the humor will be great. Because, on any family trip or any group trip, there's like inevitably drama over things that are pretty inconsequential. Yeah, I'm remembering now like your grandpa really didn't want me to buy that hat at the gift shop.
Speaker 2:And he, kind of like, followed us into the gift shop and like followed us over the ATM. I'm going to do it.
Speaker 1:The $50 hat the billion dollar hat the billion dollar restaurant. Yeah, it's like you, almost, I think, have to make space for that, because that's the nature of a group trip.
Speaker 2:It's going to be messy.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's going a group trip it's gonna be messy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's gonna be messy and noisy and chaotic. Lots of compromise, yeah, and fun, and I think if we can find the drama funny, that will be huge. I think it'll be good for our relationship and it'll be good for everyone else yeah, and I think I'm going in thinking I really do want to be checking in, with the different parts of me coming up, even maybe in moments where I feel good, you know, and calm, or still, you know, noticing, checking in like with the body, with like what's going on internally.
Speaker 2:Why do I feel good?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:How do I feel good?
Speaker 1:Or yeah, it's like what's there.
Speaker 2:Just what's there? Where do I feel good Even?
Speaker 1:me saying good. It's like what's there, Just what's there. Where do I feel good? Even me saying good is like a little bit of a judgment, but it's like whatever I feel just noticing it? Why do I feel buoyant? Yeah, yeah, why do I feel energized? Why do I feel tired? You know not even the why, necessarily More like I feel energized. Let me notice it and just be curious. Yeah, energized. Let me notice it and just be curious. Yeah, explore it. My calves, my calves feel huge?
Speaker 2:is it from all the exercise?
Speaker 1:what was the exercise? What was the exercise this way? Yeah?
Speaker 2:maybe lots of games, oh yeah, I'm not a big game person.
Speaker 1:My family's a big game person that will be a challenge going in for me. You, you know, being accepting, being open definitely. And holding that self-respect right when I hit my limit or I want to step away and do something else.
Speaker 2:I can say that you respect yourself, you respect others.
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally. I think that's our mindset going in and we're leaving a lot of room for messiness.
Speaker 2:Spacious. Yeah, I mean if Katy Perry can go to space. I can send a couple emails.
Speaker 1:Just kidding, lol, just kidding, lol, just kidding. We're quoting a Meg Stalter TikTok video Stealing her.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Gotta get her on the pod. Shout out to Meg Stalter Dream dream guest. Our good friend Meg Stalter.
Speaker 1:I mean once upon a time she was a Chicago comedian. That.
Speaker 2:I didn't see she is from Chicago. She's from Chicago.
Speaker 1:No, I think she's from like Pennsylvania or something, but she came up in Chicago as a comedian.
Speaker 2:Great comedy scene here.
Speaker 1:Oh, totally, yeah. Yeah, she's so great, shout out to Too Much the show she was recently in with the Lena Dunham show Great.
Speaker 2:So great, so great, great, great we loved it.
Speaker 1:Maybe we'll do it up on it, yeah.
Speaker 2:Talk about wise mind in that. Well, we miss John we miss John, we do.
Speaker 1:But yeah, this is our little mini episode. That I guess wasn't that many.
Speaker 2:It wasn't Well, it wasn't huge.
Speaker 1:It wasn't tiny and it wasn to keep it as tiny, no we need to quickly wrap things up.
Speaker 2:I would like to give a shout out to the new Blanketforts. He's our resident DJ. He does the music for our show. It's probably playing right now. I edited it later and added the music in, so it's probably annoying for you to listen to. He has a new album that he made with his creative partner, who goes by Silver Motes. I don't think he's on Spotify, but they have a side project called Spectro Jammers. They just released their self-titled album, spectro Jammers.
Speaker 1:How pretentious is that? No, just kidding. That was Blanketfortz himself telling us that he thought it was pretentious.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah. He is very self-deprecating, like any good man should. And the album's great. Listened to it three times the day it came out, listened to it in the car, listened to it on a run, listened to it while I was doing some chores, and it could be Blanketfort's best work to date. I'm a big fan. Shout out. I'm always putting him on my year-end list. I guess you could argue it's nepotistic, but I do think his music is really good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and describe the music so people know.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm thinking I might actually play it at the end of this episode, oh yeah. Okay.
Speaker 1:So then you'll get a little taste.
Speaker 2:So it's probably playing. Maybe that's playing instead of our usual end songs.
Speaker 1:Perfect.
Speaker 2:It's not on Spotify yet. Yet it's on bandcamp. It'll probably be on spotify in a week as usual, it, it goes okay, okay.
Speaker 1:Well, that was our episode. Thank you so much for listening yeah josh today. Um, and yeah, if you want to find me, I'm at kkpsychotherapycom. You can send me an inquiry there and you can, in that inquiry, give us suggestions for podcast topics. You can inquire about working with me. Any questions, anything really. We'd love to hear from you. You can tell us how much you?
Speaker 2:like hear from you. You can tell us how much you like the couch.
Speaker 3:Yeah you can tell us how much you like kelly's hair, or how much you dislike kelly's hair yeah, that you could maybe just keep it.
Speaker 2:I really like kelly's haircut.
Speaker 3:Thank you, I appreciate it yeah I love it too okay, well, thank you everyone reach me at joshbearfilmscom yeah okay, thank you thank you.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for listening and we will see you or hear from you next time later, bye, bye the wise mind happy hour podcast is for entertainment purposes only, not to be treated as medical advice. If you are struggling with your mental health, please seek medical attention or counseling.