The Wise Mind Happy Hour
Two therapists musing about the idea of an inner wise mind and how to connect with this psychic space in different contexts.
The Wise Mind Happy Hour
the wisdom of HYPNOSIS 🌀 (feat. Dr. Albert Bramante) 🌀
Special guest Albert Bramante, Ph.D. (a certified hypnotist and seasoned talent agent with more than two decades of experience in the entertainment industry) joins us on this very special episode, as we debunk various hypnosis myths, discuss the psychological pitfalls of being an actor, and even debate the wisdom of playing Monopoly.
- music by blanket forts -
Welcome to the Wise Mind Happy.
Speaker 2:Hour. I'm John. I'm Kelly.
Speaker 1:And we're your therapists.
Speaker 2:Yes, I'm really excited.
Speaker 1:I haven't been here in a while.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right, john has been away, you guys recorded without me.
Speaker 1:How could you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we had a little recording without John a little, josh, and. Kelly recording.
Speaker 1:Did you listen to it? I did, and I love the Josh and Kelly recordings, although it is a little like I almost feel like I'm going to say something and it's like going to show up, but it's like it's the silliest thing, because it's like I feel like I'm there with you and as I'm, as you're talking, I'm like, oh, I'll say this.
Speaker 2:And somehow it'll magically get in the record. This is what I can't, because I'm listening to you too. So, um, no, it was great. Yeah, yeah, okay. So tell us, john, what's what's new with you this week uh, yeah, I just got back yeah to the country, I actually went out of the country.
Speaker 1:Wow, tell us everything uh, family vacation, which was great we spent. Uh, we drove to canada wow, we went to niagara falls tell us all about canada uh, it was a eight and a half hour drive wow, you guys drove. We did drive.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we wanted to have the car and so when we were looking to go, the flights were just so expensive and you know, certainly eight and a half, nine hours is a long time in the car. But it also gave us the the car to have it. We didn't have to rent one. Then, yeah, we were able to explore a little bit more and we were able to spend a little bit more money on, like, the hotel accommodations which was nice. So we went to um niagara and we stayed one night there and went to the falls. Which is, have you ever been?
Speaker 2:yes, I saw that pic of you guys on the made of the mist yeah, it's beautiful yeah, I went once in like eighth grade.
Speaker 1:It's beautiful, yeah, um, and just like so fun when, like the water and the mist, is just coming all over you and everybody's laughing, and so that was great. Um, and then we drove to toronto and we spent the week there, which was an amazing city have you ever been?
Speaker 2:there. So, okay, I don't remember it, but I feel like what I remember is liking it.
Speaker 1:It's like and I'm not the most traveled or worldly person it is a very international city.
Speaker 1:It was very cool, like the street corner when you're waiting for the lights to change, you know to go into the crosswalk, like you're hearing, like three or four different languages wow at a time I love that um it, it has parts of it have like chicago feel to it, almost even new york feel, um, but then some of the older parts you know, sarah, being from philadelphia, was like this kind of feels like a Philadelphia neighborhood, so it was really great.
Speaker 1:And it's on Lake Ontario, so it also has a Chicago feel in the sense that there's like shoreline Right, which was really cool, and we took a water taxi. There's like islands, the Toronto Islands, so it's like a 10-minute taxi ride. You go over there and there's no cars allowed on those islands, so it's just like beach and like gardens and you walk around and you can like rent bikes on there and stuff. So we spent the day doing that. But we did a bunch of touristy stuff with our kids. We went in the CN Tower and which was really really cool, and did like the aquarium and stuff.
Speaker 2:Wow yeah. So, cool Canada.
Speaker 1:So it was our family.
Speaker 2:It was like our longer family vacation yeah, wait, suddenly I'm like was that, was that movie? Take this waltz? Has anyone seen that movie? Was that set in toronto?
Speaker 1:I don't know toronto it makes me, though, now that you say that it I had the thought I was like I want to look at movies that are shot here.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Because I feel like it would be cool like having been here now to like see movies that were shot here.
Speaker 2:I have like I don't even know where this came from, but I know before I met Josh. Sometimes I would like fantasize about moving, especially if, like dating, wasn't going well or whatever. And I had, I somehow formed some like fantasy of like moving to Toronto. Toronto it's a cool place it's definitely a cool place.
Speaker 1:I think I read somewhere too that like 50 or 51 percent of the city population is born outside of Canada wow, and again.
Speaker 2:That's why it has such like an international kind of like feel to it.
Speaker 1:There were many like funny moments, obviously, in a family vacation One my car almost got towed, which then our vacation really would have gone into a different way.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, because where would you even go to get it? I don't know what's their lower Wacker Drive yeah.
Speaker 4:At that point yeah, I'm going to the consulate the embassy.
Speaker 1:What am I doing? Yeah, it's like going to the consulate the embassy I, what am I doing? But there was one day towards the maybe it's like the thursday night so we're like walking to dinner and we start noticing like all of these women are like, dressed the same, like they're all in, like these, like boots. Women are like, dressed the same, like they're all in, like these, like boots and like shorter skirts and, you know, like sparkly tops, a lot of them red, and we're like what's going on like what is this?
Speaker 1:and all of a sudden we're noticing more and more of them. And so we get to our restaurant and I just like ask the server. I'm like, hey, is there like something going on like tonight? Like and she was just like oh yeah, the weekend's in town for like a week and so the weekend is canadian. Yes, and I didn't know that, and he played, it did I know that.
Speaker 1:I knew drake was canadian played at the rogers center, which is where the blue jays played. I think he played for like four nights in a row, whoa. But everybody was. It's almost like a uniform, like everybody was so similarly dressed. It was crazy.
Speaker 2:It's like miniskirt boots. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:Or some sort of low cut like top.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And it was just like everybody was out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was like the look. Yeah, that's what we're wearing. We're pink on Tuesdays.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think he set a record for like selling out that stadium. He might have been there four nights, three or four nights, I mean he's like up there with taylor swift.
Speaker 2:He, he had. He surpassed taylor swift as most played on spotify I think they're like back and forth.
Speaker 1:Wow, yeah, I don't know he's popular well, listen, every so that was like the thursday, and then we were there, you know, friday, and it was the same thing. It was just like the streets were as darkness fell, people were coming out of the woodwork. It was like, yeah, Wow, I would.
Speaker 2:I'm sure I would enjoy a weekend concert, but that is so cool that you played four nights.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it was four. It was either like three or four, but wow anyway, but it was, it was a.
Speaker 2:It was a really cool trip.
Speaker 1:Nice, that's great and that's why I wasn't recording right, that's where john was.
Speaker 2:I was out of town. Yeah, that's why josh and I missed john we missed john.
Speaker 1:We cried so much um I could have called from toronto, but I know which you're not. You're not supposed to say toronto, you're not supposed to say the T.
Speaker 2:Yeah, toronto, toronto yeah.
Speaker 1:That's one of the keys that you are a local. Toronto or a Torontonian is Toronto. You also always have a cup from Tim Hortons of coffee.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, josh, his mom lives near a Tim Hortons which I had never seen one outside of like yeah, they're everywhere in Canada. Wow Are they good.
Speaker 1:We stopped on the drive back because we were like we got to stop at Tim Hortons and I got coffee and I'm not yeah, it was coffee.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was coffee.
Speaker 1:You know it was it was coffee Raves, john, it was coffee. Yeah, and timbits right exactly yeah, the little donuts which are the munchkins of canada maybe yeah totally but isn't tim hortons also in michigan?
Speaker 5:yeah, right, yeah, there's one across across the street from my mother's house.
Speaker 2:There you go, but we've never gone. No, because we should go in there, we don't have to I'd like to.
Speaker 5:Okay, we'll check it out.
Speaker 2:We have to, just no we have to yeah, yeah, josh also like there's a jersey mike's by his mom's and, like the first time I came, I was like oh, jersey mike and he was like we never go there and I was like turn the car around like you don't go to jersey mike's jimmy john's josh is like not a jerk, are you a jersey?
Speaker 2:mike, I've never had jersey oh dear it is so good they put 1000 pieces of protein on your sandwich and they like cover it in like vinegar and oil and salt and pepper and they're like so nice it's like Subway, didn't know what was coming.
Speaker 1:You know, subway doesn't know. Yeah, because.
Speaker 2:Subway, like they're literally putting a see-through piece of cheese and they're like you get one and they're like putting it down. Remember when they analyzed like the tuna and there's no tuna in it. It's like there is no tuna.
Speaker 1:It's like tuna for a second time they found that artificial, like tuna, artificial seafood meat product or something like yeah, not seafood meat product, but it's like I don't know what it is, and then there was like a rumor.
Speaker 2:I heard this on another podcast that there was a rumor that everything at Subway was made out of turkey Everything.
Speaker 3:So all the meat was just turkey. That is incredible.
Speaker 2:And then someone's like are the cookies turkey? And I was like, oh my.
Speaker 1:God, the chips that are in the sealed bag are turkey. These are turkey.
Speaker 5:It's all turkey. I heard the bread was made with cardboard.
Speaker 2:The bread's made with yoga mats. Wait, is that true? The same material that's found in yoga mats? Are you kidding? I'm not kidding, that's disgusting.
Speaker 1:I also still eat it sometimes. Hopefully they're used yoga mats too.
Speaker 2:It's so crazy. Is that why it smells the way it does?
Speaker 1:Yes, so good you think that Is that why it smells the way it does. Like. So good you think that's a good smell.
Speaker 5:So good, the subway of it all. You're going to wake up tomorrow. Kelly said she was going to exercise. I'm going to eat the yoga mat for breakfast. Oh man You're like are you done with that man?
Speaker 1:I'm just going to put some of the whatever five bottles of mayo you got and different kinds of mayo in your fridge.
Speaker 5:Oh my God, you saw our mayo. I know it's great.
Speaker 2:Oh my God. Speaking of our mayo, we've discovered there's a chef we like, molly Boss, and she came out with a mayo line and we were like we'll try it, whatever. Sometimes we get a little bit annoyed by her, this mayo we now can no longer live without it.
Speaker 1:It's so fucking good, right? Yeah, you should try a dollop. You gotta try a tiny little bit.
Speaker 5:Do you have any of those chocolate fish? You stole my joke. I was literally about to make that.
Speaker 1:You know, that's only going to be a callback and funny to our regular listeners.
Speaker 2:Yeah so all two of them um all two of them.
Speaker 1:But what were you doing while I was gallivanting around out of the country?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So last weekend we went to Michigan this area called Coloma, michigan with Josh's family for his grandpa's 90th birthday bash Huge, biggest trip ever. Yeah, best success.
Speaker 5:We made a music video.
Speaker 2:Really Totally, josh filmed it, wow yeah really totally.
Speaker 5:Josh filmed it. Yeah, wow, yeah so. So it was funny because my aunt andrea um, I guess we like used to make music videos as a family back in the 90s. There's like a place yeah, they played these. There's a place in orlando called like, I think, pleasure island where you can go and um, it's not what you think. You go go into some back room and they film you against a green screen and they make a video of your family.
Speaker 3:A music video? Yeah, a music video, it's like we are family.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was the song. Yeah, Get up everybody and scream. Oh no, I think the song was also like Celebrate good times.
Speaker 5:So those were the two. And it's pretty corny. They're like really precious now because everyone's like 30 years younger, and so my aunt was like we should make another one of these for the new generation. And I was like, okay, yeah, great, sweet.
Speaker 2:My eyes like rolled back into my head.
Speaker 5:And then she sends me a music video of the song I Got a Feeling by Black Eyed Peas and she's like you, um, the song I've got. I I got a feeling by black eyed peas and she's like you look, you like the song. And I was like sure, sure, it's a, it's a classic, yeah, yeah, um.
Speaker 2:So we did that and you know, um, that's nice, it was it actually turned out really well yeah, I think so too yeah, we based it on this good morning america video where they do that song and they like take the camera all the way through, like all the staff at Good. Morning America. So we basically did a version of that with his grandparents. His grandpa essentially played the Matt Lauer character who has been uber canceled, which there were like two canceled men in that video. I was like, I think, brian Williams was in there too. I was like oh dear.
Speaker 1:So yeah, we did. The music video was also a pop-up video. Do you remember pop-up video on VH1?
Speaker 2:Very much so. Yeah, what is a pop-up video?
Speaker 1:Well, it's the music video, but then pop-up video. It would give you little random facts about things you didn't know about that music video or things you didn't notice. So get to work, josh, and make a pop-up video we can make a papa video because my grandpa, because my grandpa goes by, papa, yeah, yeah, and he'll pop up and be like celebrate good times come on.
Speaker 2:That's amazing. Yeah, so that was fun. Um, yeah, it was fun.
Speaker 5:We like swam yeah, it was fun we swam um. I ate. I ate a lot of like chocolate. Yeah, I had like a billion chips.
Speaker 2:You know, when you're on vacation there's like a giant bag of chips and you're just like I guess I'm just like doing this, like yeah, yeah, totally, oh we had chips galore in the car for eight and a half hours.
Speaker 1:Yes, what kind of chips, all kinds. I bought one of those. Uh west came shopping with me all the sun came grocery shopping the weekend before we left and we just got, like I don't know, a 24 pack of, like the little ones. So it was like ruffles doritos doritos oh my god to get those.
Speaker 1:Fritos. So we had a container in the back seat with the boys of chips and pretzels and applesauce pouches and we had some fruit, just so that they weren't constantly asking us every five seconds. It was just kind of back there with them. We had beef sticks. I love it Do?
Speaker 5:they love a road trip?
Speaker 1:I think they do, because they have carp launch over their ipads and they can just watch as much shows. And yeah, you know, I think it. It definitely. You know, the last couple hours can be a little bit much, because even they're a little bit like.
Speaker 2:I don't want to get boring yeah, it's boring, yeah, it's getting boring but I think they do yeah. That's fun. Yeah, yeah, that the chip bag, because my mom used to get those assorted chips, the assorted ones, yeah. And maybe I haven't said this on this pod. I had this realization of like my school lunches when I was younger. Did I tell you what they were?
Speaker 1:Those bags of chips.
Speaker 2:Well, that was part of it. I would have a jelly sandwich on white bread.
Speaker 1:Just jelly.
Speaker 2:Just jelly with chips and a Twix.
Speaker 1:That's my whole lunch. That's a great lunch.
Speaker 2:That is so crazy that my mom packed that for me.
Speaker 1:No apple. No, were you disappointed when you got the Fritos? I feel like nobody likes the Fritos.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 1:I actually disappointed when you got the fritos, I feel like nobody likes the fritos?
Speaker 1:yeah, I don't. I actually feel like fritos kind of make me feel sick, because I think like you can't find a box of those types of chips without like they always throw. It's like the only saving grace was wes allowed. When we were like, looking at the box, I was like, well, why don't we get this one instead? And he was like why? And I was like, well, they, this one has chili cheese fritos in it. And I was like, well, why don't we get this one instead? And he was like why? And I was like, well, this one has chili cheese Fritos in it. And I was like I'll eat those Upgrade. Yeah, because nobody eats.
Speaker 2:I'll take the knee.
Speaker 1:But those are always the ones that are leftover.
Speaker 2:Nobody eats those yeah, like that's true too with like assorted candies. It's like the Three Musketeers, I feel like is always left over.
Speaker 1:There's always something that people don't like.
Speaker 2:I love those, you love those and I love Milky Way and you think Milky Way is.
Speaker 5:Oh, I don't like Milky Way. Milky Way is fine. It makes my mouth a little like bleh Crazy.
Speaker 2:But not Three Musketeers.
Speaker 5:Three Musketeers is like a nice light bite. It's like eating a cloud.
Speaker 1:I would prefer a three musketeers over a milky way. I guess I do too.
Speaker 5:I don't hate it I don't hate a milky way but like I, I think I feel upset about the three musketeers hate okay, okay.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean here you snickers is on top of the mountain, so I don't think it is for me that's maybe that's john and I both like snickers, which which feels like Milky Way with a crunch.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I love Snickers. Yeah, so good.
Speaker 2:I like Milky Way with a crunch if it's some crispy rice thing $100,000.
Speaker 1:$1,000. Oh, $1,000, or whatever, $100,000.
Speaker 5:Yeah, it's like you're biting into a crisp. You like a Twix?
Speaker 1:It's like you're biting into a crisp. You like a Twix or not a Twix? You like a Kit Kat? Then too, yeah.
Speaker 2:I like a Kit Kat. I mean a peanut M&M is probably the top of my mind.
Speaker 1:I agree, A peanut M&M Snickers for candy bars.
Speaker 4:But like chocolate bites like that. Yeah, for sure Too hard, stop, don't agree.
Speaker 5:It hurts my teeth, so you prefer the measly little regular M&M's?
Speaker 1:No, he's probably one of those people that are like man once they started putting peanut butter in there. Those are the best ones.
Speaker 5:I agree, John.
Speaker 2:Oh.
Speaker 5:The truth comes out. You remember Crispy M&M's? They were around for like one day.
Speaker 1:Yes, I do.
Speaker 5:Were those any good.
Speaker 2:I think my mom liked it. My mom liked the pretzel ones too.
Speaker 5:Oh yeah, I love a pretzel Hot. Take on the peanut butter.
Speaker 1:I feel like people bailed on peanut M&M's hard and just went straight to peanut butter, I know, and the peanut M&M's are still the best. I agree.
Speaker 2:Definitely Do you guys like a Take 5 candy bar.
Speaker 5:Love. You know that I introduced you to Take 5.
Speaker 2:Wait, I'm thinking of fast break. Yo yeah, they're both kind of like oh yeah, nascar the day, josh gave me a fast break.
Speaker 1:I told him it was my favorite game are take fives like rare. Can you just find them anywhere? They're like a little bit rare.
Speaker 2:I feel like I don't see them all this, or maybe I'm just not paying there was like an era where they were around more and no, I feel like, if you go to like, a, they should be at the grocery store they're probably at the gas station, but they're not going to be in your variety.
Speaker 5:candy box Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and they might not be at the grocery store. You might have to go to one of those truck stops.
Speaker 1:Those are good. I like the.
Speaker 2:Take. Five. Yeah, they've kind of got everything going on which is kind of nice, Like peanut butter, caramel, pretzel, chocolate.
Speaker 1:I feel like people are also very divided on the Mounds and Almond Joy of it all. Yeah really hate coconut or or they like it or they don't like the almond right, almond joy.
Speaker 2:Wasn't it interesting what came first, the mountains or the almond joy?
Speaker 1:probably almond joy I have no idea. You don't think it was some?
Speaker 2:old about these almonds what?
Speaker 5:oh, you don't think it was some old tennis?
Speaker 2:no, because I get the feeling that they made one in response to the dislike hold on as producer.
Speaker 5:I going to look this up. Okay, great.
Speaker 2:But yeah, so that's what we did with the weekend and then the weekend before. What did we do? We were here, I think. Were we. Yeah, I think we had like a low-key weekend. Oh, we got the couch delivered that we're sitting on it's great, so we, kind of like, sat patiently waiting for this it's great putting it together and loving it, yeah, yeah so yeah, that's a little like veloury kind of feel yeah but not like a thick kind of, you know, like, yes, velvet, but they.
Speaker 2:they call it a performance fabric, meaning it's kid and pet friendly, so like if we spill on it, it's easy to clean up. Wow. Yeah, I mean, I don't know, like, what are the limits of a performance fabric? I don't know.
Speaker 1:Does that mean it's got like Teflon in it or something?
Speaker 2:I don't know. I guess it's like stain resistant. Stain resistant, I think it's like if you spill water on it might like it'll beat up, yeah, beat up, yeah, that's cool yeah what did you find out producer?
Speaker 5:mounds came first 1920 and then almond joy in 1946.
Speaker 2:Wow, wow, I really would have guessed the opposite according to hersheyland. Wow.
Speaker 1:So someone one day was just like let's stick a single almond right on top. Well, I guess, if it's popular, like how could we add to it? Or maybe it was losing popularity and they were like how could we add to it?
Speaker 5:I know I was going to say usually like upgrades are second you like add. But then I was like, oh oops, all berries you subtract Right, second you like add.
Speaker 2:But then I was like oh, oops, all berries you subtract right, oops, all turbulence.
Speaker 1:I do prefer mounds. I mean just personally.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I probably would too, but it's funny that mounds came first. It's like did someone's like healthy crunchy mom say, like what if we put an almond on top of here? You know, because it's such like a healthy nut and that came.
Speaker 1:That came like 15 years later. What was that? What was 25? Oh, 25, wow, 26 to be frank, wow wow okay, or maybe there's just like a surplus of almonds and they were just like we had nothing to do with this. Nobody's eating them. Throw them in a candy bar make it healthy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for the kids, it's for the kids supposed to have like six almonds a day or something. They used to say that wow keeps the doctor away
Speaker 1:yeah now they make those really good almonds that have like um, like wasabi ones and like the smokehouse, like yeah, yeah, those are like all the flavoring on it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love a Marcona almond. Have you guys had those?
Speaker 1:No, I don't think so.
Speaker 2:Or a blanched almond where they take the skin off. It's kind of nice.
Speaker 1:I don't think I've had that either. Yeah, those are nice Anyway this might be the perfect time. This might be the perfect time Because it's an exciting episode. We have a guest.
Speaker 2:Yes, we have a special guest.
Speaker 1:Yes, we're very excited.
Speaker 2:We're very excited to welcome all the way from New Jersey Albert Bramante. Welcome to the pod.
Speaker 5:Albert, dr Albert Bramante.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, yeah. So tell us a little bit about yourself, your work. You work a lot with hypnosis. We're going to be talking today about hypnosis, but, yeah, tell us in your own words about your work.
Speaker 3:Sure. So I started working, studying psychology, and I was all intents and purposes going for a PhD in psychology, and I did that, received my bachelor's and master's, and then I went on to work a little bit because I took a break before I received my PhD and I started working with actors Okay, in a completely different way initially in the beginning, and I still work as a talent agent. So I did I still do that full-time and one of the things I noticed when I write my first work with actors was there was a lot of self-sabotage happening, and that prompted me to research self-sabotage in filming artists for my dissertation, okay, and so I looked at fear of success, imposter syndrome, self-efficacy and self-esteem, and so that really led me down the rabbit hole. And through this time I started to distance myself a little bit from clinical psychology and focusing more on solution-focused work, which then led me down to study hypnosis and NLP. Okay, because it's a much more quicker, rapid way of working helping someone work through their issues but also uses a lot of principles of psychotherapy.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:But in a less clinical way, and I wasn't so much a fan of diagnosing people and like kind of like staying in their pathology. It's great, and I don't want to downplay clinical psychology in any way, but it just was becoming less and less for me.
Speaker 1:And when you say NLP, Albert, what is NLP?
Speaker 3:Just for our audience Neuro-linguistic programming Okay, neuro-linguistic programming.
Speaker 2:Okay, interesting. I am not familiar with that. So yeah, tell us about that.
Speaker 3:So neuro-linguistic programming kind of uses the principles of coaching and therapy but uses more about the power of language to rewire a neurology, Like there's a partnership between the language that we use and our brain and our nervous system. So it kind of uses a lot of the principles like neuroplasticity and how all of that combines to really help someone improve themselves. But the main crux of it is the power of language and as well as the power of the imagination and when you say, uh, neuroplasticity, you're saying the power of language can help you rewire basically your brain.
Speaker 1:You can make new connections within your brain.
Speaker 3:Exactly Got it, wow Brain, experience, imagination, the way we think. So let's say, someone is working through a conflict that they've had, or maybe a memory that someone had of, maybe their parent being critical.
Speaker 3:So in their mind, what we do is use an exercise of where they imagine their mom or their dad whoever the critical one was saying that remark, and then imagine them saying with cartoon music or like some type of funny music. What we want to do is neutralize the emotion at its heart of that message that they may have been programmed to be running in their life. So in a sense it's more about just rewiring the memory. We're not changing. You know, we can't change the memory, we can't change the past, but we can change how we react to it and we can change how we can process that memory moving forward, at least remove the emotional charge from it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, so adding in something that interrupts the emotional experiencing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and it's called the pattern interrupt. So like, even if somebody's in the middle of like, recalling a traumatic memory event, you could simply say hey, do you prefer coffee or tea? Get them out of that. It's like that quick interruption.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and would somebody? So that would be an example of saying that. Would somebody feel like that's just invalidating if they're like having a more like vulnerable share, or is it that that that base has already been set with that person that you're working with so that they know?
Speaker 3:hey, I might interrupt you here with like something that may not feel I'm gonna try new thing with you, because obviously if you say something I'm gonna interrupt you, that they're already expecting that, at least consciously, that you're gonna interrupt them. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, okay that you're going to interrupt them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, okay, so you'll kind of prime them for that. That's the whole kind of deal, and would you consider that that's a hypnosis practice or that's more NLP?
Speaker 3:It's kind of both because both practices work real well together. Because even with hypnosis you're not rewiring the belief.
Speaker 1:It's not changing the path, but your relationship to it, to them show up in them yeah, and even if the charge is still there, how do you sit with the charge and not maybe build your tolerance to it, build your ability to relate to it in different ways? Um, I really want to talk about the hypnosis, though, because I don't know anything about it and I feel like I need you to to like educate, because, you know, I feel like my base level knowledge of hypnosis is probably any type of trope you see in some sort of movie or um like show, where somebody's got the pocket watch and they're holding it in front of you and then anytime somebody says a word, you do a gesture or something like that so um, so can you dispel or maybe tell us in our audience a little bit?
Speaker 3:about. I can tell you, it's not a pocket watch, okay, not getting someone to, okay. It's using power of the imagination, in sense, and it's about just helping you bypass the critical factor of our brain, so where you can now get someone to look at something in a different way or a different perspective. So it uses what we call the slow state, which is like an altered, slightly altered state of consciousness. It is not sleep, it's not the technical type of sleep that we go into at night.
Speaker 3:Now, we all go through states of hypnosis all the time and I'll give you some examples. So if you've ever driven like maybe an hour or two hours or multi-hour trip and lost track of time, that's a form of what we call highway hypnosis. Another aspect of thing is if you watch a movie, when you sit down to watch a movie, you know what you're watching is fake, but yet while you're into the movie, either you're gonna laugh, you're gonna get scared, sad or whatever emotions are going to come up, but yet what you know consciously is fake, is manufactured, but it's like there's suspension of belief and that's a hypnotic.
Speaker 1:That. That is a hypnotic state that we all can be hypnotized.
Speaker 3:As a matter of fact, we go into that state several times a day. Interesting, if anybody. You listen to music and sometimes you're just lost in your music and maybe somebody next to you is talking to you and you don't even hear the conversation. Yeah, that would be just how many times have you swore you lost your phone and you're holding it in your hand?
Speaker 3:right, yeah or if you were. If anybody wears glasses, they'll be like where are my glasses? Meanwhile that either it's either out there wearing them or it's on their forehead, right, or you're just looking for your keys and you don't realize it's right in front of you. Yeah, but yet you swear you can't find them.
Speaker 2:Okay, and you work a lot with performers, with actors, people on the stage and screen. I imagine so, tell us about your interest in that and how you kind of came to want to work with that type of client.
Speaker 3:While I was studying psychology during my undergraduate I took some acting classes and theater classes and it really was interesting to me, just the act of creating and putting things together. So I did a little performing myself afterwards in New York but I realized that wasn't for me. I really didn't have the artist lifestyle or expectation, but I enjoyed being around actors, just the energy. I felt more at home with actors and creatives than I did with other psychologists and academics.
Speaker 2:Yeah. What do you make of that? Why was that?
Speaker 3:I think I had more of a freer spirit in a sense, and I consider myself like the ordinary person. I grew up in a blue collar family, so I really didn't identify with the academic types, although I can hold myself in an academic discussion all day long. It just wasn't for me. The stuffy life, you know the stuffy this habit, so I enjoyed being around. Very easy going way back yeah and I don't really find that too much in academic circles yeah, yeah, I heard that'm curious.
Speaker 2:Well, what do you, or what did you have thoughts on?
Speaker 1:No, I mean, I, I'm, I want to talk more about hypnosis, but what do?
Speaker 2:I think about the hypnosis. Well, maybe that that's a good next step for us in terms of, like you know, someone seeks you out. Let's say, it is like a performer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like a performer, that's a good. Yeah, let's say it is like a performer. Yeah, like a performer, that's a good. Yeah, you know, they they email you, they find you and they say you know, I'm struggling with stage fright. I imagine that. Or I mean, maybe it's more like auditioning the auditioning process, because I know you, I think, wrote a book on the auditioning process and that sort of I kind of reframe auditioning Okay, because a lot of times there's a lot of judgment to it.
Speaker 3:It's like if they're going to get that audition or not.
Speaker 2:Yes, totally.
Speaker 3:And so that pressure alone is going to negatively affect their performance and the audition because they're going to be in their head too much.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Because there's so much expectation about are these people going to like me? Am I going to get the job? What's going to happen here? So the way we can reframe that is to say, look at the audition as an opportunity to perform. You became an actor because you like to perform, so use those two minutes to allow yourself to have fun and forget about the outcome. Because you said you want to be an active reform. Well, here you go. You have two minutes, you know.
Speaker 1:Have fun and don't attach an outcome to it yeah, so having people really focus on process versus outcome like this is the right, the meaning. It's all about the process exactly the meaningful process is the things that drew you to being an actor, an actress, a performer, and so let's focus on those things, and this is an opportunity to engage with those things, and the outcome is going to be what it's lot of actors.
Speaker 2:Well, I've found in like the small amount of like performers I've worked with. They're very open to the therapy process typically, which is so nice yeah.
Speaker 3:And, what's interesting, the archetype of the therapist and the performer are not very different.
Speaker 2:Yeah, totally yes, yeah, they can get into it. But I imagine there are some people you come across where you'll help them connect to that value right of performing itself, and some people are like, okay, I can turn my mind to that.
Speaker 3:And then maybe some people where it's a little more resistant and then there is more hypnosis you do or like yeah, I mean, it really depends upon what's going on, because, as you know, there's a whole host of secondary issues that may be going on too. Yeah, and a big struggle that I see a lot of actors and performers is family approval. Ok. Because, especially if their family is not into the arts or has no experience into it, you'll often hear them. So are you going to get a real job now?
Speaker 3:yeah right or a family. You know how they did it, so what have you been in? Yeah and that can start to add up over time. Yeah, totally to their struggling imposter syndrome self-doubt yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, that makes me think a little bit about you, josh.
Speaker 5:My husband, josh, here our producer, is a filmmaker and sometimes it's yeah, sometimes you get those questions, yeah, I I um make documentaries and I I started off doing like I would make mafia movies with my friends in middle school and went through various phases. Then, then you know, made weird experimental films about noodles and college and got really into David Lynch and thought maybe I wanted to do that.
Speaker 5:And then then I moved to Los Angeles and I just really fell in love with the documentary filmmaking community and documentary editing. And I never really loved writing screenplays but suddenly it was like, oh, editing a documentary is basically like writing from all these hours and hours of footage of just kind of watching people live their lives. And I've been doing that for the last decade, but this was a while ago. I've been doing that for the last decade, but this was a while ago, I think. I came home at Thanksgiving back home to Michigan and saw my family and was all excited about that. I had gotten hired professionally to edit my first feature documentary and my uncle said so when are you going to start making real movies? And that's like it's funny because he's so he's like maybe my favorite uncle. But um, now I'm not gonna say anyway, are my uncles listening to this.
Speaker 5:I love all my uncles. You know who it was if you were you. But yeah, I think I think sometimes when you're in a career like that especially if, like, you're the only kind of filmmaker actor in the family it's like a lot of people almost like want you to get these like bright accolades that they can kind of hang their hat on, to be like, oh, like that's my nephew or that's my son who, like won the oscar, and for me I'm really just happy to like get paid a living wage to edit documentaries. I feel like I'm living the dream now. But sometimes when I'm with my family, it's like I feel this need to impress them, and then I'll be talking and I'll sort of trail off because I'll find myself imagining that they're getting bored.
Speaker 3:So I don't know if any of that resonates with you, Albert. It really does. I mean welcome to the most accurate. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And it really does. I mean welcome to the most accurate, yeah, and it really brings a challenge, because I can't even say, like even your uncle that was could be a well-meaning statement, yeah, but it kind of still hurts a little bit. Here's that, there's things because that reminds okay, well, I haven't made it or I haven't done this yet. So that's where it just starts to make you uncomfortable. And then also most degrees in acting cost over six figures, and now you know your family can make. So what do you, what can you show with that? Right.
Speaker 3:Or my favorite is you have an agent now, so why aren't you in a movie? Why can't your agent call Steven Spielberg?
Speaker 1:Of course, yeah, yeah, that's the natural you're just yeah, you're given a phone and every famous director's on speed dial once you get an agent yeah that would make sense yeah, I think I think the um, one of, uh, my wife's cousins, she's a stage actor and it's tough.
Speaker 1:I mean, she is working multiple jobs and then you'll move on to the real career or you'll move on to the real thing that's going to give you the whatever the income that you need, you know, to survive. So, almost like whether it be support systems or family, it's like a waiting game of like, well, they'll get over this, whatever this like creative thing is, and then they'll work a nine to five or something like that yeah, get a real job.
Speaker 3:Yeah, as they say, yeah, so okay.
Speaker 3:So then does does more like classic hypnosis, come in with a lot of like family trauma it can, it can come in I, but I I also think that traditional therapy is still helpful yeah um, or if you are going to go to a hypnotist or family trauma, that you should go to somebody who is trained, either a social worker or therapist, right, but it can work as an addition to what you've learned in in therapy. Because as much as I I, you know, I'm really into hypnosis. I also want to be honest about the limit, the limitations of it too, especially with deep-seated trauma, right okay, yeah, speak to that a little bit.
Speaker 2:You know like what? What?
Speaker 3:using it well, as a practitioner looks like so it's like using what we said earlier about neuroplasticity, the kind of not taking away the memory. We can't, there's no way we can do that. But what we can do again is neutralize the reaction and or at least the reaction to the memory so it's not as emotionally charged or have any emotional charge anymore. So you can just talk about the memory as if you were just describing what we ate for breakfast, you know the other day, like okay, this happened to me, but it doesn't affect me anymore. And then also, especially if the trauma involves a perpetrator or somebody else, the one thing we want to do is get to forgiveness. That's a big part of it too, and forgiveness of personnel, of course. Course, for anybody who's listening, I don't mean that you're condoning what happened or that you're letting your person like off the hook. What you're doing with forgiveness it's for you, not the other person.
Speaker 3:It's for you not to be emotionally charged anymore yeah and so you can forgive someone and still not have that person in your life or have regular contact with that person. Yeah, and then there's also the process of forgiving yourself, which is a big thing, because a lot of times when people suffer trauma, they blame themselves. There's a bit of self-blame Is there something wrong with me? What did I do?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And so we want to take that away too. Yeah. So that there's no longer any self-blame. You forgive yourself yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah. So hypnosis is like a compliment to that whole thing 100% yes. Because I do EMDR work with trauma. You know, when I see that in my practice and there's an element of you know I mean we don't usually use the word hypnosis, but there is an element- but it's using the process of eye movement.
Speaker 3:Yeah, whether it's just, you know again, it can be sometimes just moving your eyes back and forth yeah, there's different patterns of that. The purpose, though, again, is just we're neutralizing the reaction to it and then even reprocessing it to a point where you're coming more from, instead of the victim, to a survivor and thriver.
Speaker 2:You're coming more from, instead of the victim, to a survivor and thriver. Yeah, and you're so right that I will look for the self-referential piece, right? Is there a piece of self-blame, self-resistance? You know, the blame is let go and the situation is a situation right. An experience of the past, yeah.
Speaker 3:Because it was one of the episodes that I now remember. It was when you talked about shoulds, because a lot of times when people have trauma. They're always like I should have did this, I should have did that. Why did I let myself get to that?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Or what did I do wrong? I should have done this differently. And we all have incidents in our lives where we look back and say I should have done this, I should have did that, and sometimes that can be going to a negative feedback loop. Yeah, that can just, you know, really hold us back and delay our momentum, and we look at the person having the resources they need, but we may just need to help them tap into that.
Speaker 2:Yes, bars.
Speaker 1:So the yeah, the inherent wisdom in all of us, or the inherent tools in all of us, or the inherent whatever it is that we all embody, and we can help people access that, however we name it, whether it be from dbt or wise mind or yeah, yeah, we love that obviously yeah, oh, totally no, some people from an amorous eric may say, like the higher self or the collective wisdom or anybody's into young, the collective unconscious even, yeah, the soul, even but it's all about just tapping into the resources within us so that we become our own therapist at some point yeah
Speaker 3:and where we wouldn't not are not going to need that and completely transparent. I think one of the main turnoffs for me for clinical psychology was I was seeing people in therapy for eight, nine, ten years yeah, working with the same therapist, and there was part of me that was questioning like is there something wrong here? Yeah because most people I know cannot afford eight or nine, ten years of therapy.
Speaker 2:Sure, yeah and and you notice with this nlp and hypnosis work that maybe there is a little more movement. Yes, that's amazing, given all the pressures on everyone. A lot of times in EMDR we talk about that like going for what will give the person the fewest amount of sessions and the most relief, the fastest. That is really a big drive and I hadn't really worked with a modality that really pushed like give them the most relief you can. You know, go for a touchstone memory if you can.
Speaker 2:You know, because they may feel better sooner. And then, you know, keep going with therapy, keep bolstering that. If they need that, of course, that if they need that, of course. But yeah, I I think that's a great way to think about it, not just keeping people on the couch forever, kind of not doing much.
Speaker 1:yeah, I also wonder too and again, this comes maybe more from just like anecdotal, whether reading about actors or you know knowing a few in my life but just the resiliency I feel, like in the arts, that the people you work with probably have, in the sense that you got to have a lot of ego strength to be able to hear rejection and we did a podcast on rejection but just like the um, the nose a lot so often and also just how harsh the criticism can be from people telling you about not just your performance but your looks or what you're not doing, and just how consistent that is in your life.
Speaker 1:It just it feels like crushing to me to think about like myself and that, but just also on the flip side of that, the people having such resilience with that to continue to pursue and how much they love, you know, the creative arts or just acting in general. I don't really know if that's a question, but just I you know you working with that population of professionals. I just wonder about like the ego strength you're seeing in the space when you work with them.
Speaker 3:Yeah Well, yeah, there's a lot of ego strength when you start to learn to separate a personal factor from their business. Yeah. Because there's only a certain number of roles, there's so many actors out there, only one person can get the role Right. So if you can separate the personal and not take it personal, that's a way to kind of develop that ego strength, because it's just you weren't right to the role.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:The word rejection has a negative connotation to it, and it really signifies about you as a person.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So what? I one of the quotes that I've read out of a book, actually, and I don't remember the author, but it was there's no such thing as rejection, only a simple reminder that your services are not needed today. Oh I like that. I like that.
Speaker 1:I love that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, that can be true in so many places. It works well with actors, if you can internalize that and really believe that, because all we're saying is not today, yeah, right and you know, maybe this is not something we could do on this pod, but of course, john and I like fantasized about you, maybe like hypnotizing one of us or or even leading us through an example of like a session where you do make use of it.
Speaker 3:Sure, Well, I. What I can do is have someone use their, their imagination. Yeah. So the biggest, a big tool is visualization. Okay, so let's say you have to give a presentation or have this important conversation. Yeah.
Speaker 3:So what you can do is close your eyes and imagine that this is happening Okay and that it's going in your favor, and you just keep doing this over and over again, because the brain does not know the difference between reality and fiction. So if you do that a lot and they did actually studies on this with athletes- yeah. Where they had them. You know, separate them into different groups and what they do is one group would just practice for a couple hours.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And another group practiced for a couple hours and they'd also did mental rehearsal.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:Which is that visualization kind of using the hypnotic process, right? Which is that visualization kind of using the hypnotic process, right? And so now we can add an NLP layer to that by having the person obviously imagine them in first person, yeah, and then if they're having that important conversation or that presentation, now put themselves in the mind of the audience watching themselves give this presentation. Now the third thing to do fill it up to the ceiling. Look at the audience and look at yourself giving that presentation. So we call those perceptual positions where it's first person, second person and then third person. So you're adding like a three dimension to your visualization person.
Speaker 2:Wow, so you're adding like a three dimension to your visualization. Wow, I love that.
Speaker 2:I mean I'm into um manifesting, which is maybe a little bit embarrassing for me to say sometimes but I don't always bring this into my therapy work but you know it's interesting that mental rehearsal like I've heard so much info and data really on. You know, especially like the piece of like having first that real first person, imagining seeing yourself in that role doing something well, and yeah, that's interesting the second layer of the second person and then the third, kind of rounding it out. I hadn't heard that part.
Speaker 1:Well, and it makes me think of, at least from my perspective, within acceptance and commitment therapy, the observer self, the ability to be outside of ourselves, can allow us to not fuse so much with the internal and what's going on. Because in those moments when we do that, then we can't see outside of that at all and it's too intense, and so we usually just avoid it or try to control it or escape it, whatever. But yeah, like being able to view it from either a different perspective that observer role can allow us to, to see ourselves as larger than maybe what the internal world is kind of telling us, our internal world.
Speaker 3:Yeah, cause that's really the founders. Nlp use of work of like Milton Erickson, virginia Satir. Love Virginia Satir, and so a lot of these processes are rooted in that work.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, totally. I love this. I mean now I kind of had forgotten about mental rehearsal and now I'm like I got to bring this back into my life. And definitely with my clients, because you know, josh and I we may not have heard this on the podcast, but we recently, at the beginning of the summer, got married and we did our own vows and, man, I could have really used mentally rehearsing it going well. That would have been great to do. I mean, it went well anyway.
Speaker 2:But you know, yeah it would be so nice to have had some of that like calm that may have come from that what do? You think, first take, best take yeah that's josh's middle name. First take best take and I'm like you're being impulsive totally well, both Well, both are true. Both are true. Both are true. Yeah, okay, so interesting. So you'll help guide people a bit through the mental rehearsal piece.
Speaker 3:Okay, and it's not just like okay, here's the outcome, but here's the process of doing it. Yeah. So like if you're working, let's say, with a student student trying to study for an exam, so you have them not just taking the exam but imagining them like studying for the test, and how easy the information and effortlessly the knowledge just flows through that. Oh yes.
Speaker 2:Oh.
Speaker 3:I love that. And then when they take the test, you do question by question. That's a question one. You notice how easily and effortlessly the question comes to you. The answer just comes because it flows naturally. Yes, wow, and so I'll do this when a person's like in a light altered state of friend okay, wow and yeah, there's.
Speaker 2:There's um principles of that in the mdr, with like what we call cognitive interweaves, where when someone's in that trance state, you might like gently suggest reframes that are a little stronger right, like notice this, or kind of raise questions that that mindset might be able to kind of figure out better than if they were just like their baseline state.
Speaker 3:Yeah, wow, that's so interesting I love this and what you can even do is like, even while you're doing the envr processing, you can say, rather than saying is this helping you like with some novice therapists may do, you'll say I wonder when you'll notice it's helping you. Yeah, whether it's now or in five minutes yes, love that, I wonder I wonder when you'll you'll notice I wonder when you'll notice how easy this information gets to you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but you kind of just think I wonder when yeah so, like, even if I'm having a conversation, I wonder when you'll find this interesting. Yeah, now or later. That's hilarious. I love that.
Speaker 1:It makes me want to use it, like on my family. Yeah, I want to use it on my kids. I wonder when you're going to find that I'm right. Because I am. So it'll come to you.
Speaker 3:I'm going to be a monster right here Anyway.
Speaker 5:I mean, I had a question, yeah, Albert, I'm curious because I feel like what you're describing is honestly so similar to EMDR and like other I don't know if the right word is like traditional therapy practices, but things that feel not so foreign, you know, to the world of clinical therapy.
Speaker 5:And I remember when I was in in high school they actually brought a hypnotist into my uh psychology class and they kind of went around the room and kind of tried to hypnotize a room of 30 students at once and then, one by one, they kind of like tapped a bunch of kids on the head and they were like you're faking it, you're faking it, you're pretending to be hypnotized. And it ended up being me and one other girl in the class. I remembered thinking I like wasn't actually hypnotized, but but in this context, you know, and I'm really good at just kind of like going along with the joke, but you know, at times but they kind of had me like stand on my desk and like oink, like a pig and just do silly things, and I remember this and then I remember the whole rest of the day, just like feeling like I'd had the greatest sleep I'd ever had.
Speaker 5:So it felt like it had some kind of an effect. But I'm curious. I mean, I feel like that could bring up a lot of like neural connections for you to go off, but like I think in that context it almost seemed like more of a party.
Speaker 3:You were in the flow state.
Speaker 5:Yes.
Speaker 3:So that's where a lot of people, especially when they come out of stage, have noticed the show, if they've really been in the entire process they feel so energized afterwards because they're in a flow state. So I think the biggest misconception is that people are zoned out when they're in hypnosis. They're not. They are aware of everything. They know what's going around them. They're just comfortable, yes, and so that would make perfect sense why you're aware of everything yeah yeah, and that you are in control, yeah I did feel very relaxed, though yeah, so that makes
Speaker 3:sense and that's that's the whole thing too, is just being totally comfortable it's just a relaxed, comfortable version of yourself.
Speaker 2:You may not really resist it so much. You might really let it in and at least explore it or maybe, you know, embrace it. This makes me want to be like hypnotized every day, like all day I know, it sounds amazing.
Speaker 5:I mean how, albert? What would you say? The connection between meditation and hypnosis is?
Speaker 3:Yeah Well, they both use altered states and they both kind of put you in what we call the alpha state, which is that light relaxation flow state. The thing about meditation is very often it's about emptying your mind. Here in hypnosis we're giving you things to think about or tasks to do in your mind, but it's using the same state. So if you can meditate easily, then you would be able to go into a hypnotic trance very easily okay interesting.
Speaker 2:Good, that makes sense yeah, so yeah, meditation could be a a supplement to it or a compliment to it, like on your own, of course, yeah, yeah, well, any last things on your mind, albert, or on anyone's mind here that we want to ask about hypnosis or you want to share about it in your work?
Speaker 3:Well, number one it's very powerful, but it's nothing to be afraid of because it's not mind control. You cannot make someone do anything under hypnosis that they would normally not do anything under hypnosis that they would normally not do. And very often what you're seeing on this day shows the people that are really great subjects are your people that are introverts, that really want to come out of their shell Interesting.
Speaker 2:That's great to think about with any introverted clients I have, or friends or anything you know like. Could something, a practice like this, be helpful?
Speaker 3:And one thing is you can often say that everyone is suggestible, and that's what hypnosis works on is really suggestion, and if you weren't suggestible, you couldn't learn.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a really good point. So everybody has some measure of that. Yes, okay, any questions for you, john?
Speaker 1:When can I start? I mean that, that's uh, yeah I want to be in flow more I want to I know and I it's interesting in talking to you just how many connections there are with these. You know, like josh had mentioned, like different traditions, like you know we've, because we've talked about wise mind, act, emdr, nlp, like not having known anything about it. Just all of these things weaving together in so many different ways, just maybe using different language with it yeah, yeah, that's really.
Speaker 1:All it is is just different language with the same principle yeah yeah, yeah, that always gives me such like faith in the general therapy process psychology, because I do find at times the over pathologizing and the labels and certainly diagnostic criteria can give us a direction that we want to go in and that's important and I think that's what you're saying as well, but then really getting into just being with the whole person and and, yeah so, and, and sometimes and you can probably identify with this too some people become too wrapped up in their diagnosis or use it as a crutch.
Speaker 3:So, and and sometimes and you can probably identify with this too Some people become too wrapped up in their diagnosis or use it as a crutch. Yeah, yeah. You know, what does your depression and anxiety really giving you? Maybe it's helping you escape or getting sympathy from other people, so you're as little going to be resistant now to get better.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, to be resistant now to get better, right? Yeah, well, and I? One of the most interesting things is when somebody comes into the space and working with me and and very much identifying with I have treatment resistant depression and that's like one of the first things they tell you.
Speaker 1:And yet they're seeking you for treatment, and so it's just a very interesting thing where they're so fused with this idea, and it's so important for them to put that out there at the forefront, that the diagnosis I have is resistant to what I'm coming to see you for, and they really want to set that kind of stage very quickly. So I I just think that that's always a fascinating thing when and I'm not exactly sure you know it comes from different places.
Speaker 3:I want to get better.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:But but unconsciously there there's that fear of the change of identity, loss of identity and maybe other benefits Maybe they're on disability and maybe they're getting special attention there.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I, I feel like sometimes it's almost like a badge of honor, sometimes for people to to be like I'm so difficult or I'm so profoundly unhelpful. You know, the other people you work with you can help, but the people. But I certainly would not be that, Not to say that people are like proud of it, but but it almost comes across at times as that. But anyway, totally. And we still work with those people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, totally, which is important Totally. You know what I was just thinking when Josh had mentioned that thing about. He was like saying other classic forms of therapy. It hit me that in some ways, hypnosis is the most classic form of therapy, as Freud was a big hypnosis proponent. What do you think of that? I'm just curious.
Speaker 3:Well, Freud is very controversial, I'm sure you know, and he did try hypnosis but he kind of abandoned it. But some could argue that he abandoned it because he really didn't know how to do it or how to handle it.
Speaker 3:You know how to handle it, but there is a form of hypnosis called regression it, because you really don't know how to do it or how to handle it. You know how to handle it, but there is a form of hypnosis called regression. Yeah, that's a bit controversial because sometimes you could run the risk of traumatizing the client. But it could also be like we're gonna watch a movie and then you you kind of bring back that incident of what happened to them when they were younger, but as a third-person observer.
Speaker 3:Yeah, okay, and that helps protect that they're not necessarily in there in the first person, because that's usually what a regression is it's like it's happening all over again.
Speaker 2:Right, right, okay, I mean, this is great. This makes me want to go to hypnosis, makes me want to go to hypnosis, wants to what makes me want to refer people to hypnosis. So, yeah, I know we'll get to your plugs where people can find you and all that stuff at the end, but maybe now we'll move into our. How wise is it? Question for a little good, clean fun good, clean fun.
Speaker 1:How wise is it? And today we're going to be talking about and we're going to bring albert into this one but how wise is it to play Monopoly?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm sure there's a lot of hot takes here but, I don't know when should we start. Kelly, do you want to start, sure?
Speaker 2:I'll start. Well, I have not. I mean, have I ever played a full game of Monopoly is really the question.
Speaker 1:I don't know if I have. I mean, I remember mcdonald's had it right yeah, so there was like a game where didn't somebody rig that too at one point there's like a documentary about that. But um, yeah, sure that's your form of yeah, monopoly do I almost have to like recuse myself. No.
Speaker 2:Well, I will say this Generally games, especially long games, the instant someone's like let's play a game in a group, I can feel a part of me just like starting to like feel like it's eating itself alive Really.
Speaker 1:I don't want to do this. You don't want to play games.
Speaker 2:I'm kind of not into games yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Did you grow up with? Were you like a game family? No see, I think that plays a lot into it. My family is still kind of a game family now how wise is it to play monopoly? I find monopoly to be long. Yes, yeah, and it takes a long time for me to start to enjoy it, because there's a lot of build-up. Like you got to start getting properties yeah, you got to start getting hotels where you can really like tax people yeah, dominate, yeah, just dominate people um, what I will say?
Speaker 1:it is wise to play, for me monopoly with my kids at times, because you know the game isn't going to go the full length, because they're going to lose interest so um, but it is fun to see them start to do math and get like a little greedy about it and so I think it's wise in that sense yeah and I think games for me are wise because I do think there's a communal element to it.
Speaker 1:It makes me think about my family. I like learning new games, I like being able to teach my kids games, and now they're getting to an age because they're 10 and almost 8 where they're actually playing games that are much more enjoyable for me versus games that are, you know, candyland's great, but you can only play that so much.
Speaker 2:But totally monopoly is tough to finish yeah, I think yeah, and somebody usually feels albert and josh I'm curious your thoughts I I played monopoly a little bit.
Speaker 3:I haven't played in a long time, but I did enjoy. It was like my favorite sport game, that and candyland came in a close second when I was a child.
Speaker 1:Yeah, candyland's great yeah, but then when you become an adult and your kid, that's like the only game they want to play. If you, you know that can be difficult. Wait, monopoly was your favorite game growing up, albert, yeah, it was what. Did you have a particular piece that you liked? Did you like to be the car or the dog, or did it not matter to you? That didn't matter to me. Really, I find that some people really gravitate towards the thimble for some reason.
Speaker 5:I don't know why I love the thimble.
Speaker 1:I know it's really sturdy. Is that what it is?
Speaker 5:I think that I learned the word thimble from monopoly, it was like an object that you know, I didn't know existed who has? A thimble and then I learned it was for sewing, but it kind of looks like an upside down trash basket so that's true I don't know. I think I gravitated towards the thimble wow, I like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, wow, what do you think of monopoly in general, josh?
Speaker 5:it's really long. I don't think I've ever won, so in that sense it's wise because it checks my ego. I think game playing I am a fan of in general, especially in this world of digital interfaces. I think a kind of tabletop game that promotes any kind of conversation is nice. I think it takes a good amount of your attention, but you know it's like slow and I feel like generally you can kind of converse as you're playing. I'm a big fan of Settlers of Catan. I think that's my favorite long game, which usually it's a little shorter than Monopoly. I think you can finish a game in like 45 minutes. Even In Monopoly it seems like usually you's a little shorter than monopoly, right, I think you can finish a game in like 45 minutes, even monopoly.
Speaker 5:It seems like usually you reach a point where everyone just kind of gives up and yes, decides to give, like the angriest person, all the money is that the best metaphor for capitalism? Just give up, give the angriest person all the money give donald trump all the money, yeah oh my god, yeah, the collective groan. It's like, oh god seriously yeah, is it wise I mean, it's capitalism wise. Is it wise to play a game of simulated?
Speaker 2:well, it is funny because that's it's messaging essentially, or is it like making fun of it? Is it you know?
Speaker 1:yeah, I don't know poking.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like drawing some attention to that good question yeah, who knows? Yeah, really um but I do.
Speaker 1:I appreciate the point of like the tabletop yeah the analog, not the digital. Sitting around a table and playing a game, having something to touch like I don't know. There is something nostalgic for me about that, and just board games in general. Length, though, is a contributing factor about whether I want to actually play it or not so yeah, and I've never played settlers of katan, but don't they have a shortened version of it with dice now, I'm sure don't even get him started oh, okay, we'll talk offline about that is it at McDonald's.
Speaker 2:That would be funny no, it's probably just a board game.
Speaker 5:I know there's a shorter version of Monopoly. It's called Monopoly Deal, monopoly Junior. They shorter version of Monopoly. It's called Monopoly Deal, monopoly Junior.
Speaker 1:No, they do have a Monopoly Junior, my youngest son. We've played that with him. Monopoly Deal is actually really fun and it's quick and it's only cards, but yeah, it's fun.
Speaker 2:Okay, I would look into that. I'd consider it. Yeah, have you, albert, ever played Settlers of Catan?
Speaker 3:I have not and in full context. I was never really much into board games, that much yeah, um, it was very much of a nerd a reader that was like my yeah, escape, that was like my yeah totally.
Speaker 2:Oh, I love that yeah yeah, both analog options. So maybe we're saying even for the analog feature.
Speaker 1:I think it's wise I think it's wise too for the communal factor of it. Yeah, and again, that comes from me growing up in a family of people who wanted to play it, so right, yeah um, I feel like now there were definitely times where it went south, where people were in tears or I flipped the board over because I felt like it wasn't fair, but I think overall it is nice to get people around because I think it can foster. Good is not a descriptor but conversation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, connection.
Speaker 1:Connection.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's wise.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I do think two of the biggest fights my family has ever experienced one was playing this um, it's like a rapid card flipping game called dutch blitz love dutch blitz.
Speaker 1:My sister and I like I love.
Speaker 5:It went to bed really pissed at each other, which happened. Maybe it really just happened that one time I love dutch blitz. Yeah that with you yeah, yeah, that'll start an argument. And then I think um charades. One time my I played with my whole extended family and aunts and uncles and, um, I guess, got ugly. What happened was we were making the teams and someone had the great idea of being like let's rank the family one through ten of who's like best and worst at charades.
Speaker 5:That's great to make the teams like. Even so, the fight kind of started even before the game began the ranking, the pre-ranking, yeah, so reckoning is competition. You know wise, I don't know.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna point well, you know what's interesting? Oh yeah, albert, what are say?
Speaker 3:Well, here's the thing about competition, because there's two sides to it. On one hand, competition can build up your ego, strength, resilience and commodity sportsmanship, but on the other hand, it can also create a win-at-all-costs mentality that can sometimes cause you not to enjoy the game anymore yeah, yeah, yeah because I've seen in families where sometimes the parents or grandparents take the like, take the game a little too seriously definitely yeah, yeah it's their last hurrah.
Speaker 5:And it's almost like if you lose to your children. Like what does that? What mean Right? Are you being overtaken by?
Speaker 1:the new generation. You're being overtaken. You're being overthrown. It's a coup d'etat. Your time is up for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, you know that almost makes me think that uniquely monopoly could be wise, then, because we all give up on it so like there's no resolution, yeah, versus result. You know, like, if it's really that much of like a trudge to the end, you know you kind of can like maybe give over to the process a little bit more, maybe with a game that is almost never ending.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, we settled it.
Speaker 1:I think we once again, once again totally monopoly sales are going to go through the roof yeah after this podcast what's the company? No, is that milton brad or?
Speaker 2:is it or is it not? It's parker brothers, it's parker brothers. I think yeah, okay those parker brothers.
Speaker 5:Shout out to them makers makers of the ouija board oh that's a whole other whole other thing, another podcast, another episode where we do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah well, thank you so much, albert, for being with us.
Speaker 2:That's been so nice having you um. Tell us where people can find you. Work with you, that of thing.
Speaker 3:I think the best thing to do is go to my website, albertbermontecom. You can also follow me on LinkedIn and feel free to reach out to me, and I'd be happy to jump on a call with you and see what we can do.
Speaker 2:Nice, okay, and I'm Kelly, as I said earlier, as you all know, and if you want to reach me or work with me or ask me questions, or offer podcast topics or anything, you can reach me at KK psychotherapy dot com.
Speaker 1:And I'm John, as I mentioned earlier. You can find me or reach out to me with any questions. Topics how wise is it? Just anything in general.
Speaker 5:But butzjonathan at gmail dot com and I'm josh, which I may or may not have mentioned earlier, and if you want to be a guest on our pod, please reach out to any of us. You can definitely reach out to me and uh, if you want anything edited, you can reach out to me as well at uh joshbearfilmscom. I don't have the video of me being hypnotized in uh high school, but you can find other videos there that you may find uh entertaining.
Speaker 1:Thank you all right well, thank you so much, everyone for listening and thank you, albert, for being on.
Speaker 3:We really appreciate you taking time with us, thank you, thank you all for having me on. Yeah, of course it was lovely. It's been a pleasure yeah, take care.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, everybody thank you all right and thank you blanket forts for the music take us out the wise mind happy hour podcast is for entertainment purposes only, not to be treated as medical advice. If you are struggling with your mental health, please seek medical attention or counseling, not to be treated as medical advice. If you are struggling with your mental health, please seek medical attention or counseling.