The Wise Mind Happy Hour
Two therapists musing about the idea of an inner wise mind and how to connect with this psychic space in different contexts.
The Wise Mind Happy Hour
Is Having A Boyfriend Embarrassing Now?
Kelly and Jon apply their wise minds to the hot Vogue article "Is Having a Boyfriend Embarrassing Now?" by Chanté Joseph.
- music by blanket forts -
Welcome to the Wiseman Happy Hour. I'm Kelly.
SPEAKER_01:And I'm John. Welcome.
SPEAKER_03:We're so we're already mid-conversation.
SPEAKER_00:We're about to bring up Phoebe Bridgers.
SPEAKER_03:No, I was actually okay. So John gave us a little hot take of his that will go to him is a pretty average band. Which I appreciate the take. I don't agree.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:But I do, I get it. I get the take.
SPEAKER_01:And what I I just don't get the I I understand the love from a Chicago perspective because they're a Chicago band to be proud of, and people should be proud of them from the home city.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um, I just never really I always felt like when I would listen to it, everybody else was enjoying it so much more than me, and I there was like some disconnect. I just didn't and I've never gotten there. It's like I don't get it. Well why do people like this band so so much? They're not a bad band by any means. Right.
SPEAKER_03:I just feel like it's pretty Wait, what's that song I love, Dave? Put on my mix.
SPEAKER_00:I know the one that you're always shake drugs. Yeah, but you knew that before me.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and the other one.
SPEAKER_00:Wait, what other Wilko song do you love?
SPEAKER_03:Youavy metal drum rap. Heavy metal drum rap.
SPEAKER_00:Jesus, etc.
SPEAKER_03:Jesus, etc.
SPEAKER_00:You you like like more than those three, but yeah, I know you like all those three.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I'm the man who loves you. Never mind. I'm the man who loves you. But you are the one who are the man who loves her. What? But you are the man who loves her. I know that's why this is sappy, and I'm gonna have to cut it. I like it. It's gotta go. It's gotta go.
SPEAKER_03:Um, but I was gonna say a band that I feel that way about is the Foo Fighters. They I think they're pretty average. I feel like Dave Girl went from like the greatest band ever to like a very average band. Is that Nirvana? I mean Nirvana's Nirvana. Yeah, I don't know why. I like it's like going from Beatles to Wings.
SPEAKER_00:I like Nirvana more. Beatles to wings. Yeah, for some reason I was thinking Red Wings.
SPEAKER_01:Well, yeah, I mean I do like that first Foo Fighters album. Yeah, that's an interesting I haven't really thought of that.
SPEAKER_03:I just feel like when I hear their songs, I'm like, these are so dumb.
SPEAKER_01:That's funny. Yeah, I just think it shows personal taste, right? And what yeah, but there's something about certain bands where their popularity far exceeds, I guess, my understanding of why they're so popular.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, definitely.
SPEAKER_01:The other one I brought up was Pearl Jam.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:But people swear by their live shows. I've never been to one, so I can't comment on that.
SPEAKER_03:And they were in that like grungy era, a little more punk, probably than Nirvana, but like closer to grungy.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, they were closer to the Seattle grungy scene, right?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah, like if they came out now, would anyone be impressed? Who knows?
SPEAKER_01:Right. I don't know. But people do have strong takes for it. And when I say it, I'm never looking to get into a fight about it. Right. It's just I don't understand it. Yeah, you know.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, no, I feel you.
SPEAKER_00:I got in a fight about it. About Pearl Jam. Have I I don't think I've told the story on the pod, but I think I've told you this story, Kelly.
SPEAKER_01:What?
SPEAKER_00:When I was uh I think it was my first time.
SPEAKER_01:Are you a Pearl Jam apologist?
SPEAKER_00:Is that well I guess now a little bit after this experience, but I was at Lollapalooza probably 2008 or whatever year they were headlining. I I wasn't a Pearl Jam fan. I think I kind of thought Eddie Vetter's voice is like funny. Like I would make I would like make fun of his voice a lot. So we were seeing him, and I think I was doing like an Eddie Vedder impression, like before they were starting. And I was there with all my friends who were like, you know, like freshmen in college, and I was like, DEL me. And then this guy turns around, this like bearded man, like crying. And he's like, fuck you, Pearl Sam's awesome.
SPEAKER_01:Oh my god, wait, because you made him cry?
SPEAKER_00:I think he was crying maybe out of like excitement for the show. I don't know. It was on, and then we were like all like trashing them kind of. Yeah. And then and then we all like loved the show.
SPEAKER_03:And you don't like when someone trashes a show you're enjoying.
SPEAKER_00:Well, the show hadn't even started. Yeah, that's true. So at one point, I think I tapped the guy and I was like, this is pretty fucking awesome. And he was like, Yeah. That's nice of you to circle back. Maybe I'm like mm-reinventing this memory in my head, but I like that. I like to think it went that way. Yeah, it probably went that way. I think it will, I think, I think it's not a few. I could see you doing that.
SPEAKER_03:When it's around music, I could see you like any excuse to say that.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, super into the show. And I wasn't trying to drag this guy. I didn't I just we were just trying to be funny.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But then we made a grown man cry.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I mean, uh uh certainly a live show can change your take on a band. I will not deny that. LXG, who we all like anyway. So maybe I just need to see these bands live.
SPEAKER_03:I know. I yeah, I mean, I will say I liked Wilco a lot more when I saw them live.
SPEAKER_01:I feel like I saw them live once, but probably not. I feel like I would have. I feel like my friend Tommy, who I do want to get on the pod at some point, would have taken me to a Wilco show.
SPEAKER_03:Because he likes them.
SPEAKER_01:He does, and he just likes any type of live music and would buy tickets and be like, hey, I got two tickets for this. Like, you're coming.
SPEAKER_02:Let's go.
SPEAKER_01:Let's go. He was the one who took me to I think I mentioned this before, Bonnie Vare at Shuba's before they were like a thing.
SPEAKER_03:I am not a Bonny Vare fan, so they fall into the Willco category for me. Okay. But yeah, I saw Bonivere live and I was like, I would like to leave. I would like to leave now. To me, it was like someone messing around with a synthesizer. No real songs. Well, that's a fair fair take.
SPEAKER_00:I wasn't as into that show. I might have been a little poisoned by how much you weren't liking it. It was yeah, I was not sure.
SPEAKER_01:She seeped into plugged into your business. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. But then it's like it's also like pitchfork, you're there all day, your feet hurt. Yeah, that's tough. Like Big Thief was great.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and they're like even a little sleepy, but I thought they had a nice warmth and humanity. Yeah. I heard someone trashing that show the other night when I was at that other show that you trashed when I brought the video home from my iPhone. That Maruja band. And you were like, wow, this would be like my seven pits of hell.
SPEAKER_03:Josh brought home a video of this band like jumping into the crowd and like kind of like angrily, like staring at a bunch of different, like almost like it was like a play, a little bit, like at the concert. And I was like, this is performance or ridiculous.
SPEAKER_00:I think you said this would be my personal hell.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I was so happy.
SPEAKER_00:He was about to play the saxophone. He basically like opened up a mosh pit in the middle of the crowd for him to like play saxophone and Kelly, you're watching the video, and you were like, There was no one there.
SPEAKER_01:Oh man.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:It wasn't so anyway.
SPEAKER_03:Anyway, I mean, interesting takes.
SPEAKER_01:Interesting takes.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. But let's let's check in like normal. Tell us what's new with you. We haven't seen each other for a week, two weeks.
SPEAKER_01:Longer than that. Yeah. Well, and we had a good hang.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, we did. I know weekend it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:We uh Josh and Kelly came over and we hung with the boys and Sarah. So fun. Bagels. Oh, that was the park, which was a lot colder than we thought it was gonna be. It's still fun.
SPEAKER_03:I know it was. It was like, I mean, winter just like hard launched it.
SPEAKER_01:It came off. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:It's like, oh, I guess it's winter.
SPEAKER_01:And now my boys refer to Josh as Jush. Oh, there's that. I haven't yet hit Jush. But no, it was a great time. It was a lot of fun. I hope you guys had fun.
SPEAKER_03:I don't know if you heard Shane say the thing to Josh where he's like, Do you guys ever on the podcast like switch things around? And we were like, What do you mean?
SPEAKER_01:I did hear him say that a little bit.
SPEAKER_02:He's like, like maybe some of the people who don't talk as much like get to talk a little bit more.
SPEAKER_01:I did hear him say that. That's right.
SPEAKER_02:Josh.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. He was giving you category one. I think he's giving you notes. He's saying he wants to hear more of Josh. But he doesn't hear any of it because we don't really listen to it with him.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_01:But it that's funny that he's already given it. Yeah, it's like I'm just spitballing here, but I've made a few Fortune 500 companies. Yeah. I like when they I like when they give the tours of their bedrooms.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, that was the best. That's always a funny thing. Like all their stuff and how excited they are about it. So excited.
SPEAKER_01:And then he like brought out all of his cards.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I love that.
SPEAKER_01:He was like, look at all these Pokemon. I think he was really impressed that you knew Pokemon.
SPEAKER_00:See, my skills come in handy.
SPEAKER_01:It's huge. Yeah. Well, I think it also blows their mind that there's things that are bigger than just eight years old. Like their age, where they're like, you know this, and you're an adult.
SPEAKER_00:I I was always shocked by how old certain things were when I was their age. Like, I think I thought Scooby-Doo was like a pretty new show, and then I realized it was from the 70s. I was like, oh, what the hell? You're like, oh, right.
SPEAKER_03:Or like Simpsons.
SPEAKER_00:Well, Simpsons kind of did come out right when we were born.
SPEAKER_03:The year we were born.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Well, you might not know that now.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_01:But it was a good hang. It was a good hang. We had a lot of fun. Um, yeah, what's been going on? We went to Chinatown last week. Oh, nice. I haven't been there in a long time. What's that restaurant?
SPEAKER_03:Did you go to that one that everyone loves?
SPEAKER_01:So we went to um the what is it? Lao Sei.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, yeah. Lao Zhang or something. Lao Ping. No.
SPEAKER_01:Lao Sei Su. And I think that owner owns a few restaurants down there. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:What's the one you like, Josh?
SPEAKER_01:Don't quiz me. I just butcher the names. But um it was a great time. We went to the library. The library down there is really nice in Chinatown. Um yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Lao Seshuan.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's where we're at.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, okay.
SPEAKER_01:A lot of people love that one. Uh it was great. Great food. Uh spent the day there, which was really nice, or at least the afternoon there. Um, so that's what we did this past weekend, at least on Saturday. Uh and then Sunday we were just kind of hanging out, but nothing new other than just kind of usually. What about you guys?
SPEAKER_03:So Josh was gone all week and the weekend.
SPEAKER_00:Ming hen.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, this is so relevant to the article we're gonna talk about today because I really missed him like big time.
SPEAKER_00:I missed it too, babe.
SPEAKER_03:I really was like, when the hell is he getting back? I am a lonely. Like it's lonely. Because I haven't like that's the longest we've been apart since we met.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's true.
SPEAKER_03:Well, that's a lie since we met because you went on a couple trips right now.
SPEAKER_00:Like that was like basically when we met.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:You went on That was still our like very courting phase. Right.
SPEAKER_03:You went on like two trips right then, and then since then, it's not been more than a weekend away. Yeah, that's true. So it felt long.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, what is that saying? Uh distance makes the heart grow. Heart grow fonder.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I think that's true. I really missed you, and I was like gonna post because I I'm like getting into the posting of it all. I posted some videos like of me talking about different like why is my topics and and all these different things on my TikTok. I'm mostly like doing TikTok. And like there's all these TikTok features where these like other creators will tell you, like, if you use the features, TikTok likes it so they push out your content more. So I'm like, okay, I'll do these features. And one of the features was like, pick four pictures, and they'll pick a song to put to it and then post it to your story. So I was doing that, and I picked four pictures of Josh, and I was this the text was gonna be like, My husband's out of town, but I and I miss him. And then I was like, wait, is this gonna look so lame or like alienate other people or whatever? Kind of similar to this article that we're gonna talk about today. But I really was just like, it was like I went back to my like single days because I lived alone for a long time.
SPEAKER_00:So it's like were you lonely all the time?
SPEAKER_03:No, I mean I had lonely periods for sure.
SPEAKER_00:Sure, don't we all?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, even I didn't. But no, I mean, I think I did a good job of living on my own. You know, it's it really changed in the pandemic. Like before the pandemic, living alone honestly was so nice. I think the pandemic, and then uh when I started to work for myself and mostly work from home, you're just always home. You're always home, you're always alone. You're always home, you're always alone. And yeah, that's what and then this week the internet was like completely fucked. It would not work. I had a tech come out and I was on the phone with them probably 10 different times and it wouldn't work. So it was like kind of like I was having trouble seeing my clients consistently, having to reschedule things or do some on the phone. It was hell. And I was kind of like, I didn't have anyone to turn to to be like, this sucks.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So that was like kind of hard, but man, I was like missing the hell out of you. And you were having the opposite experience where you were so busy.
SPEAKER_00:I was like oversaturated with like like I was like staying up late at night to like get any alone time and like listening to the new Rosalia, and then like not getting sleep, and then having like a marathon 15-hour day of filming with my grandpa at Costco, and then like going to see friends. Like it was all really fun playing like two hours of Settlers of Catana at night, because like you know, we're like cramming it in because we're all together. My sister was actually staying at my mom's house also in Michigan, where we were both staying. So yeah, I was kind of and then I was like on the phone, like Joe Jonah, my mentor Jonah Toolis, who I work with all the time, one of the directors, was like calling me like every day, or I was on the phone with you. He somehow was like calling me a lot, or I was like on the phone with all my friends and my grandpa coordinating. So like I like to have my like music time in the car, kind of like, but I've like didn't even really have that. But so it was like a very socially exhausting, but like very fulfilling trip. Um, so pretty different, and my internet was working, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So I would be like waiting for our like one phone call of the day and just trying to get out of it essentially.
SPEAKER_00:Well, busy.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, yeah, we were definitely having very different experiences, which happens.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, that's totally, but it was funny because I was actually like, wow, I've been socializing nonstop, and I'm actually like really excited to talk to Kelly on the phone.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, that's great.
SPEAKER_00:So I was like, that's a nice feeling.
SPEAKER_03:Because I don't even like the phone.
SPEAKER_00:I like you. Yeah, but yeah, I really I get like phone anxiety. Yeah, but then if I have to be on the phone so much, it kind of goes away. Yeah, I just get like a little burnt out.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, totally. Um yeah, so that was like a lot of it. I mean, and then I shopped a bit with my mom on the weekend. We went to old orchard, and man, I know I already said this on the pod, but like every like shirt is$200. So expensive. Literally right now. I mean, I I was thinking, I was saying this like that. I I was like looking through that magazine Fairity, you know that company Fairy. I they did this like Portugal issue, and I really liked a lot of the stuff. And I'm like, oh, there's this like button-down and pants that are like both striped, but they're like different stripes, and I'm like, oh, I I want to get both of these and kind of make this an outfit that I like cruise around in for the holidays. If I were to buy both pieces, it'd be$400. Wow, it's like$400 like for this, yeah. It's not like I'm I don't know. I'm just like, what? It just feels nuts.
SPEAKER_01:But that's good for you then. Because maybe it's curbing your spending. Well, which is what you're what you're trying to do.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it's true. I it's true. And I said to my mom, I was like, I'm not allowed to even look at another sweater because I have so many sweaters. Shout out to all my friends who make fun of me for only buying sweaters and wearing sweaters. But and then of course, I like I took two into a dressing room and tried them on. And then I was like, no, nope, we're not getting these. And I put them back. But it's like, I am like obsessed with sweaters and obsessed with buying things I don't need or already have. And my mom, I'm sure, would admit this, like she similarly like likes clothes and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_01:So yeah, it's like well, good for you for trying it on and still not buying it.
SPEAKER_03:Right. I know. I mean, but if it looked really good, I don't know what would have happened because it didn't.
SPEAKER_01:You didn't have to cross that bridge. I didn't even have to cross that baby step bridge.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and I was having that experience where every store I went into, like the salespeople were like, on us. Yeah, that's and I'm like, maybe that's almost like a pre-recession sort of thing. Like maybe Nordstrom or whatever is like, get in there and get that shit.
SPEAKER_01:Were they trying to be your friend? I don't like when they're trying to be too personal.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it was definitely a little like, what are we shopping for today? Yeah. And I literally pointed to a mannequin. And I was like, Oh, that's kind of a cool outfit. The woman's like, I can actually grab each of those pieces for you. I was like, All right. No, I'm to me, the mannequin stuff is like an outfit.
SPEAKER_01:Rip this shirt off this mannequin. I'm always browsing. That's my response. Nope, just looking.
SPEAKER_03:Or it's like if I'm not browsing, like I can grab it.
SPEAKER_01:Or I can use my voice box and ask for help from you.
SPEAKER_03:I wish that they could all just clear out all the salespeople and I could just waltz into the dressing room myself, waltz out. I mean, that would be heavy.
SPEAKER_01:I honestly think I would probably buy more, which is not my goal, but it's like they're they're a deterrent.
SPEAKER_03:They're kind of a deterrent.
SPEAKER_01:People buying things.
SPEAKER_03:They only gave you to buy things out of guilt, and then it's like you're probably more likely to return that thing.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Versus like, I'm really gonna look around at all this stuff.
SPEAKER_01:The most useful thing a salesperson can do to me personally, is when you're in the dressing room and you don't want to get out to get another size, and they're right there to help you get a different size.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, that is that is the most helpful thing. Totally.
SPEAKER_01:Because you don't want to throw your pants back on to have to go out into the store. What are you gonna put your shoes back on? Like, you don't want to do any of that. Right. So that is a helpful moment when you're like, uh, this is a little bit too snug. Can you get me the bigger size? And yeah, sure. Right. That's helpful.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, especially if they cannot be too like, what charge are you?
SPEAKER_01:And like screaming across the board. Oh, you need an extra, extra large?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it's like, kill me. But you know what's funny? The woman I I had seen, of course, on TikTok these like this company, Citizens of Humanity has uh pants, jeans mostly. And I was like, Oh, I wonder if North Northroom has a bunch of sections of different brands of jeans. And I was like, Oh, I wonder where their citizens of humanity section is. So I said to the woman like that exactly that. I was like, Do you have a citizens of humanity section? She's like, We don't have that many pairs, like they're more online. She goes, but we do have a few pairs. She's like, What are your what's your size? And I'll just get you all the ones we have. To me, I was like, What is I'm not even seeing the jeans in front of my face if I even like the the like fit of them, the color? It was like really going in the dark. Like, she's gonna pull out every citizens of humanity pair of my size, and she did kind of realize how dumb that was because she came back and she was like, I don't even know if you like these. I was like, Me neither.
SPEAKER_01:How much does a uh just out of curiosity, does a pair of citizen of humanity gene go?
SPEAKER_03:These were probably 250 each.
SPEAKER_01:Talk about humanity, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:They definitely weren't genes.
SPEAKER_01:Talk about if we're all citizens, yeah. We're all citizens who can afford that those types of jeans, totally, totally, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, jeans and North Shims are pushing 300 bucks for sure. I mean, if the right brand will be 600 bucks, yeah, crazy. And yeah, shoes are crazy, bags are crazy. Everything that's and then it's like you then you're really pushed to the fast fashion, which like people don't like, but you're like, who can afford anything else? Like it's like, could I afford this thing? Sure, but it's like at what cost of like other things that are responsible for me to save and pay for it.
SPEAKER_01:Right. That's why I just wear my wise mind happy or t-shirt all the time.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, I honestly feel like it's great. I should commit to like not getting any new clothes for like six months.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, tell me when that day starts.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, I really should because it's like an exercise, and like you don't need more stuff. Like do it.
SPEAKER_01:I say do it. Starts today.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, it's like I would I would Well, you can't do it around the holidays. That'd be I mean exactly this is what the inner dialogue would be. It would be every reason. Oh, I have a wedding, I have a birthday, I have this, and yeah. I mean, yeah. But it's like you can't really go shopping anymore. Why not? Well, because you just spent too much. I mean, you can. It's like to me going shopping, I used to feel like I could go on a shopping trip, get a few things, and not feel like I just like maxed out my credit card.
SPEAKER_01:Like you're not looking at, well, okay, what else do I need to shave off the rest of the mall?
SPEAKER_03:Like, truly, where you're like, this is getting close to rent payments. Like, what I'm at it's a Saturday at the mall with my mom.
SPEAKER_01:But this could be so such fertile ground, right? For growth as therapists, where it's like now you really have the reason to not spend, if this is what it takes for you to curb that and sit with the not spending. I'm not your therapist, but I am a therapist.
SPEAKER_03:Well, and the other thing is what I really think I need to do, and I don't want to do this, but I think I do need to do it, is like look at my credit card statement, or especially the months where I was like, yikes, and look at like where is the leak in the book?
SPEAKER_01:Oh you know go right, you can get the pie chart. Yeah, the little pie chart that shows you where all oh yeah, that just that visual alone can be helpful. Yeah, I need to do that because it'll show you whatever that piece is that's you know, purchases of right.
SPEAKER_03:I fear it's not gonna be close. I fear it's gonna be like beauty. It's gonna be skincare, it's gonna be hair care, it's gonna be stuff that you're gonna say, well, simply can't give any of this up.
SPEAKER_01:Wouldn't you rather know though?
SPEAKER_03:I mean, I would rather know. Ugh, it's endless.
SPEAKER_01:Because you couldn't give it up? Wouldn't that be a huge reveal if all this whole time you were thinking it was clothes? I know.
SPEAKER_03:I know there's like a part of me that's like, you don't really know if that's it. Now, watch, I look at it and it's like definitely close, and it might be.
SPEAKER_01:It might be.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, Josh and I have done a great job with our joint credit card of like eating out less. Like, we really have done a great job with that lately. Kudos. But then it becomes more clear that on my personal credit card, there's some work to do.
SPEAKER_02:Personal, some leaks. Yeah, some leaks.
SPEAKER_01:Well, let me know when you start. I'll go on a purchase strike with you.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, okay. I'd be like, Me too.
SPEAKER_00:I'm always on a purchase strike.
SPEAKER_02:I want Josh to do the opposite. He'd like to spend everyone. I'm not even gonna do it.
SPEAKER_01:I do have to, though, before let me give me a little bit of a heads up. This is not an excuse, but I do have to get a new pair of shoes at some point.
SPEAKER_03:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Uh, because I have holes in mine.
SPEAKER_03:But yeah, yeah, if a clothing item has holes in it, yeah. And it's a necessity.
SPEAKER_01:Which I've been suffering over getting a pair of shoes, but um, I I definitely need to get it.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, what kind of shoes?
SPEAKER_01:Just like you know, everyday kind of like tennis shoes.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Lifestyle casual, something like that.
SPEAKER_03:Walk around it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I bought um two pairs of shoes. They were the same, but just different colors. And I got them and I opened them up, and my oldest son's response was so I think that response in and of itself was okay, I guess we'll return these both pairs. I won't even try on the other colored pair. Um, and since then I've just been in my head about it, and I haven't found a pair of shoes that I like. But but it's gotten to the point where the ones I'm wearing have one of them have has a whole.
SPEAKER_03:And do you want them to be ones you can wear to work or no?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I kind of want it to be like all purpose. Like I can just wear it all the time, no matter where I go, which it's pretty low stakes at work. I could probably get away with wearing.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Have you looked into New Balance, like any other cool?
SPEAKER_01:Well, those were the two pairs of shoes I got that he puked all over.
SPEAKER_03:Maybe he just get it.
SPEAKER_01:I don't know. Nobody else in my house liked it either. So they were all like, What are you doing? And I was like, Okay. And then and then the it came out that the shoes I currently have, people were pretty lukewarm on those. And I was like, Why is nobody telling me this? And they're like, Well, you like them, and I was like, Okay, I was like, but I need some honest feedback here. Um, so I think that also got in my head, and I was like, Man, I get I gotta get my shoe game. I used to have a good shoe game, yeah, and I've fallen way off here.
SPEAKER_00:So to be fair, John, your kids were really dragging my shoes. Did they? They did. Do you not remember what they said? Yeah, they're into shoes. They were like talking about shoes. Were we talking about this? Yeah, well, this I think this was how it came up, and I was like, What do you think of my shoes? It's a topic, it's like ongoing. Yeah, they're just like plain white shoes. He was like, pretty boring. Yeah, pretty boring.
SPEAKER_01:Well, you know, Shane's gonna give you the the honest, the honest, fearless.
SPEAKER_00:But you forced me to get those shoes, Kelly. Yeah, I so you disagree with Shane.
SPEAKER_03:I think those shoes look great.
SPEAKER_00:So you and Shane are on like opposite ends of the shoes. Totally.
SPEAKER_03:Well, I mean I mean, listen, if I could dress both of you, I'd be putting putting you in a loafer. Many of the times you're reaching for a gym shoe.
SPEAKER_01:Uh loafers.
SPEAKER_03:But I can be realistic that like any loafer? I also can be realistic that there's a lot of men. The men that I actually like, their personalities and their friendship, and as my husband, are not the men who are like looking for an expensive loafer to wear daily. Any loafer. I don't want any. Any loafer, sure. I don't want a boat shoe. You don't want a boat shoe. No. Okay. Okay, because you associate it with like douche.
SPEAKER_01:Mmm. I just exactly I know well, and I don't like the way it looks on me. Yeah, okay, fair enough. Um, so I don't really like that.
SPEAKER_03:But I'd be seeing a new balance.
SPEAKER_01:So, yeah, you know, I mean, this uh the shoe discussion is an ongoing discussion in my house, and I just have not been able to get a pair of shoes.
SPEAKER_03:I just what do they want you in? Like a cool Jordan with that's colorful or something.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, I would love that. I used to have a lot of high tops and stuff, and I still have I had that pair when we did the gratitude episode. That pair that my friend got me, the Wu-Tang, the Nike one high top. My friend Quinn. Um, so I would love to get another high top or a middle basketball shoe.
SPEAKER_03:Sure. Why not? Yeah, you could try that.
SPEAKER_01:There's so many choices of that, and yeah, I just need to pick a lane. Just get a shoe.
SPEAKER_03:I would say look around at other dads, like in the schoolyard kind of thing. That's where I get my most inspiration, is just like people out on the street.
SPEAKER_01:A lot of new balance.
SPEAKER_03:So is it mostly? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Not mostly, but it's like the corner on the market.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:But then my kids puke on it.
SPEAKER_03:So what I love those like old school new balance that are like gray.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, you you like the yeah.
SPEAKER_03:The dad shoe. Yeah. I think that looks cool.
SPEAKER_01:Well, we'll see. But your kids want you to wear a cool kid's shoe, probably. Just something cooler than what I'm doing. Or maybe no matter what shoe I wear, it's not gonna be cool because it's me.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and then maybe there's a peace and a radical acceptance in that. That it's like you're just like if your dad wears a cool shoe, it's almost worse. Right. In some ways.
SPEAKER_01:I know. Worse for who? The kids. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, like we all knew the parents growing up that were like trying to be really cool. It's like but I think John's kids really want that for him.
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, they're sweet. They're really good.
SPEAKER_01:They do want that. And and please, I will apologize for Shane if your feelings were hurt on your shooter.
SPEAKER_00:No, he loved it. No, I my takeaway was Shane is very funny.
SPEAKER_01:He's he's very honest. At least you know where you stand with him.
SPEAKER_02:Totally.
SPEAKER_03:And that's all you can ask for.
SPEAKER_01:That's all you can ask for for my kid. Straight shooter.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, I mean, I really I I like as an the nerd I am today, I took notes. I did. Let's take notes. I don't have a lot more to say because Josh was gone all week, so I just like watched a lot of shows.
SPEAKER_01:Well, we talked a lot already. So let's get into it.
SPEAKER_03:Let's get into it. Okay. So the article we read. We read. An article, so today's episode is going to be based on this article.
SPEAKER_00:I didn't read it.
SPEAKER_03:Josh didn't read it, so we're gonna you're gonna have to hear us that's all right summarize it a little bit.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you told me not to read it. Don't read it.
SPEAKER_03:Well, I said it was like short enough, and I was like, we're gonna summarize it, so it's okay.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_03:Getting a little picture of how this is from Vogue is made. It's from Vogue, from I think British Vogue. Ooh. Yeah. This woman, Shantae Joseph, wrote an article with the title, Are Boyfriends Embarrassing Now? Or is it embarrassing to have a boyfriend now?
SPEAKER_01:We read it so carefully we don't even know the title of it.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, yeah. Is having a boyfriend embarrassing?
SPEAKER_01:Having a boyfriend embarrassing.
SPEAKER_03:So I figured, like, let's do like first blush reactions to the title. What was your reaction hearing it?
SPEAKER_01:I laughed. I mean, I thought it sure, having a boyfriend could be embarrassing a hundred percent. Uh, I didn't really know what to think, other than I just thought it was a funny title. Yeah. And I I mean it made me interested in wanting to read more about it. What did you think?
SPEAKER_03:That's exactly what I thought. Like, I was like, you know, there are titles out there that are so freaking genius. Yeah. You just can't go past them without being like, well, I'm gonna have to figure out what this is all about. Right. What is this about? Yeah, a great title. And in some ways, I'm like foreshadowing a little. I think the title is a bit stronger than the article.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yeah. Yeah. I I think it's a little well, we'll get into it, but it yeah, hyperbolic or, you know, like embarrassing. Like I I it's a little misleading, maybe too, the way the article was written.
SPEAKER_03:Right. And like the claims. But you know, and and it made me think a little bit about how like growing up and when I was young, like you know, when you're like in junior high and like people start having, or like as a girl, it's like or a female identifying person, people start having boyfriends, or some girls start having boyfriends earlier than other girls. And like, you know, at that time it felt like impossibly cool to have an actual boyfriend. So, like the idea of it now being embarrassing is like obviously interesting.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think the article is almost blending like, is it embarrassing from a social media perspective in your personhood on social media? I think it focused more on that than it did on actually, is it embarrassing in just your life?
SPEAKER_03:Right. That's really what she all of her like evidence was based on like people's content.
SPEAKER_01:So it was almost like to me, there was a moment of like pause of thinking, well, is is there should there be a little bit of a separation here? Yeah of like, is it embarrassing from the lens of you wanting to project a certain image or something like that? Or is it embarrassing to your feed? Or I mean you're talking and again, I'm talking from a perspective of somebody who's never been on social media.
SPEAKER_03:So there's also, I don't even really know about social media that much, but yeah, and it really is like it kind of in a funny way is like the title's so like broad and kind of invites anyone in to consider this idea. But then it's like the group that we're talking about are like heterosexual women, and uh their maybe their social media presence being the main focus. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, I like the idea. So, did you pick up from the article that some of the embarrassment comes from the idea that that's maybe kind of what makes you more of a person or whole or by having a boyfriend and like kind of flaunting it or putting pictures out there a lot, or yeah. Well there's an embarrassing quality to that, and it's like you don't need to do that, just kind of be yourself.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Well, what's funny is like maybe that being like some you know perennial ideal in like a patriarchal society, right? Like by finding a man and having a boyfriend and then eventually a husband, yeah, like makes you whole right. But and then in the article, what she was finding from the people she talked to was that like people's experience of that person mostly on social media, was that they actually became like a diluted version of themselves. And by mentioning their boyfriend or featuring their boyfriend in their social media, I suppose the non-social media version would be maybe like talking a lot about your boyfriend and like yeah, contextualizing a lot of experience through like my boyfriend and I, or my boyfriend said this.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I think so. I took it out of the social media because I'm not in it.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So I read the article and I was just trying to think of can I take this out of the social media? It is embarrassing, I think. There is a certain embarrassment to somebody who talks a lot about their significant other, yeah, boyfriend or not.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And and just not embarrassing, but it's it's like there isn't as much substance. It's always about like, well, this and they said this and they said that, and isn't that funny? And I think, you know, like that type of thing. And I think we've all probably been in a place having significant others where you do kind of lose yourself, right? Yeah. In a relationship, or you're in those months or moments, or you know, the honeymoon phase, whatever you want to call it, yeah. Where you do. So I think there is a level of like, ooh, that's a little bit whatever the word in the article, cringe, or you know, yeah, where it's like, man, they don't talk about anything else except your significant other. So I guess from viewing it from that perspective, if people are doing that on social media and a lot of posts are about their significant other, sure, that could probably be cringe or embarrassing. I don't know. Totally. But I do like the idea of if you're thinking about like the heteronormative script that you have to have a significant other in order to be worthy, or I mean, I like that idea. Totally. Yeah, that was one of the things I really liked about the article, raising that awareness of like, yeah, like I don't have to post an engagement ring, I don't have to do you know, all of these types of things in order to I keep bumping the mic, sorry, in order to like prove my value or worth, or I mean, I like that idea. Yeah, totally, totally.
SPEAKER_03:I like that too. And I thought basically, if we kind of like summarize it, it this journalist like talked to a few sources. This is something interesting. Like, I where she got the sources was sort of like dubious, and they made some kind of dubious claims, but she basically was noticing a lot of people she talked to that are like content creators, were kind of de-emphasizing their boyfriends. So instead of being like, my boyfriend this, my boyfriend that, or putting them in videos, putting them in pictures, posting whatever, it was like they would like maybe like cheers a wine glass, and there's someone else would be cheersing, but the boyfriend wasn't in the thing. There would be like tiny references to being partnered, yeah, but a de-emphasis, which is a new thing, like a shift she was presenting that it's actually like there's more cachet to seeming single than to seeming like you're partnered. And you know, it's funny, I agree with you, like whether it's social media or not, like someone constantly mentioning their significant other. I mean, sometimes, and this is a very therapist response, I'll be like, Do they really have one? Or is this person fake? Like, I'll almost be like, dot thou doth protest too much. Like it's a little like okay.
SPEAKER_01:Um, or they're just trying to like prove it because maybe Yeah, it's like an overcompensation for something where they're so great in this and then, and it's like, what's really going on there? Yeah. Like, what are the fights you really? Oh, we never fight, we never, you know, like right.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, it's almost like, yeah, you could take it further. Like, it's so perfect, my life is perfect. I have this perfect partner.
SPEAKER_01:It's so masking, or yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And and she did mention that I thought this was kind of funny, like how a lot of the people online sing they some women on a podcast were saying, like, it's kind of Republican to like have a boyfriend. Yeah, that was kind of a funny comment. It's incredible. And like, you know, the comedian Jacqueline Novak talks about this in her um show um Get on Your Knees, which is amazing if you haven't seen it. It's so funny. Um But she one of the lines she has in the show is like it I'm gonna misquote it, but it's like it's hard to deal with like the being a feminist and the humiliation of dating men. You know, like to be to be heterosexual and have to date men and be a feminist is like there's a humiliation there that you both like feel this resistance to like maleness in the patriarchy and that the male gaze, even, but then you're also heterosexual, that is your identity. Yeah, there is like a tension there that's like essentially humiliating, and I think that's so funny and so true. And yeah, like I think some of the women, because she was like a lot of the women saying it's embarrassing, also are partnered to men. And just saying that they're kind of like keeping it on the DL on their social media, maybe even when they go out with their girlfriends or meet people, they're not like saying they're not like waving it in the air that they have a partner. But also, as I'm saying all this, like I have at times probably been like over mentioning you, Josh, because we spend every waking second together.
SPEAKER_01:But that's like the thing where it's like, well, what is the embarrassment? Is the embarrassment from people because it's a blend of the the I am curious about you the your actual like social circle of people you see in person versus is the embarrassment more of this online persona or social media persona that you want likes or you want I don't know.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I one I was getting the sense, and I I'd be curious. Like I think there could be multiple perspectives on this, but that the embarrassing thing is like holding it up like it's a trophy, like it's a trophy that a man wants you, yeah. And I do think like it in a way, there's like a healthiness to being embarrassed by that, right? Like the alternative being like I have a partner and like they are not me. This is like a love experience in my life. This is my family structure, but like I, when I'm presenting myself on social media, I'm emphasizing self. I'm whole, I'm individuated, yeah. And I don't need to constantly mention my boyfriend to feel good enough, interesting enough to get likes to get follows. I mean, they're arguing that people are losing followers due to this.
SPEAKER_01:Well, and that's that's the part of it that makes me like, well, then that's inauthentic if you can never post about your boyfriend.
SPEAKER_03:Exactly.
SPEAKER_01:So if if it's all fed by the likes, and then people are swinging the pendulum to the other, you know, side and saying, well, then I can't post anything about my boyfriend, even though it's very meaningful, and yeah, or maybe there's a meaningful picture that we have that that truly would be an authentic post. I right. Yeah, that I'm not gonna tell anybody how to feel, but that shouldn't be embarrassing.
SPEAKER_03:Right, totally.
SPEAKER_01:Or or if you're you I sure always keep it to yourself if you want, and you could post it if you wanted, you know.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. I was when she said that part of like people like reporting losing followers because of it, there was a to me like a bit of a leap, a reasoning leap as to why that was. Because like, is it because the person becomes less interesting, or could it be that like a hashtag relatable influencer gets some great boyfriend and feels less relatable to you, a single girl in your apartment? Right. And they don't want you, they don't they're feeling maybe some jealousy or some envy. I'm I'm not saying always that's the case, but part of my issue with the article is I feel like some of the claims that it made claims like we were post patriarchy in a way that I wish we were, and I very much think we're not. Like the like she argued that like it's a status symbol for women to be single. That is just so not my lived experience. Any of my friends, any of my clients, I I mean, I I can't think of a client, a female identifying client that's single that feels like that status in itself. I wish it was, like I really do. Yeah, but I think it it felt a little like people saying, like, we're body positive now. And it's like that is not people's on the ground experience, you know. And obviously Ozempic is like totally changed that, but I think there can be, I'm I'm like spitting on the mic, I think there can be a cachet to being single, especially on social media. Because a lot of social media, heavy social media users are like under 30. So a lot of them are single and they want relatable content. They don't want to, well, sometimes they want like that wish fulfillment content, but I think a lot of them want to feel, especially on the newer platforms like TikTok, they want to feel like connected to a real person. Yeah. And yeah, I think maybe if you go from being single to having a boyfriend and you're constantly then talking about them, I mean your content changes.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And I actually thought this article was gonna go. I mean, that's a great point about the status. Cause I, yeah, I read that, but didn't really, I don't think I really thought about it too deeply like you have. And when I mentioned the title of this article to Sarah, we talked more about because I hadn't read the article yet. We talked more about, well, is it embarrassing because women have to caretake for men and carry so much of the emotional labor? And it's just more empowering to, in a certain way, to be single and not have to put your energy there and put it elsewhere in your life as a woman.
SPEAKER_03:And so into yourself, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And into yourself and into other things. And so I didn't know if that's where the article was gonna go, but I know that there are, and and I've seen them on my newsfeed articles about that.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Yeah, that's a that's a big topic, right?
SPEAKER_01:Of like the emotional labor. The emotional label part of or feeling like you have to be the everything to a man, if we're thinking of heteronormative type of things, you have to be the everything for them, the best friend, but also the therapist and the emotional, hold all the emotional stuff, and because they might not be willing to be vulnerable and again, more heteronormative type of things. So, yeah, so that was also something that was just kind of on the periphery as I was reading this of like, well, is there an embarrassment aspect to that too? Because you're kind of like caretaking for your significant other.
SPEAKER_03:Um yeah, you're almost like dragging yourself down or something, would be the argument there.
SPEAKER_01:Right. It didn't necessarily go there, but that was just another thing that was kind of on the peripheries.
SPEAKER_03:It almost, I mean, I that's the other thing with the article. It's like you probably could have pushed this a little further. Um been longer. Yeah, it was very short. Yeah, and like just like which I love a short article. Totally, totally, yeah. Yeah, like really raised a few more questions around this. Because that is a topic. Like that guy who's all over the internet, Scott Galloway talks about that, where he was like, his argument that why he thinks men should pay more on dates, even if they make less than the woman, was because like men get a lot more out of relationships, romantic relationships than women. A lot of broad strokes there to me. And I'm like, like we've Josh and I've had this conversation after like listening to different podcasts on it. And maybe we even talked about it on the podcast. But I think the question of like who should pay more, it's like you have to decide what you want and look for the partner that's going to give you that. And like gendering it like you're you fusing with these gender norms or even forcing them. I think should at least be considered and like explored, probably in therapy. Um, you know, like how useful it is.
SPEAKER_01:Well, and then there's all those articles about these young, these young men, they're so lonely. The loneliness, the loneliness academic. It's like, yeah, well, these men, whoever these men are, can also be fully formed adults who know how to handle their emotions and develop you know relationships with other men to support them. They don't have to look for a woman to support them. Again, that's also broad strokes, but this idea of there's a loneliness epidemic because people aren't partnered with women. It's like that's also a weird right.
SPEAKER_03:I know, and I know that there's like I'm sure this is in the manosphere, but there there are arguments too that the loneliness epidemic is obviously or like of course this is where it's going in our society, but that it's women's fault that there's like a male loneliness. Well, right, which is laughable, yeah, which is crazy.
SPEAKER_01:It's crazy.
SPEAKER_03:That's laughable. Yeah, and like To me, it's laughable. I don't know. Right. Like women aren't just deciding to be with these men. It just Or like women are becoming more independent and it's like affecting men, heaven forbid. Mm-hmm. And men are adjusting.
SPEAKER_01:That word, that's why you know the yeah, maybe hyperbole is a little bit much, but that word just embarrassing.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I my mind kind of went to, and that's what Sarah and I were talking about. Yeah, maybe that is really embarrassing if you feel like you're dating a child.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_01:That you have to care for all the time.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_01:That would be embarrassing, probably. Totally. Whether you're a man or a woman, you know, totally at times. Like that would feel embarrassing.
SPEAKER_03:Or like embarrassing to brag about that.
SPEAKER_01:Or embarrassing to brag about that.
SPEAKER_03:Right. To like yeah, to be caretaking and doing like dimming your own light and then like bragging about it. Sort of like like bragging about your own cage a little. But she didn't really get so far into that, unfortunately.
SPEAKER_01:But then what was so interesting about the algorithms and all of that, I read that article, and then two days later I was flipping through, and there was some something that came up about a woman, an influencer who was posting about all the great things that her boyfriend does for her. And it was like every morning I wake up and there's a note by my coffee that he made for me. And this it was just so interesting that that was like, why would that ever come up on my feed, right?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, they're like, you're interested in this.
SPEAKER_01:But it was just so interesting. This also like idea of like there's influencers out there that are like really, really like bragging about how great their partner is. And it's like well, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, the trad wife that came up.
SPEAKER_01:That's what Sarah was asking. Yeah, yeah. So that was like also kind of jarring seeing this person's posts every day about this is what's waiting, and they know my favorite meal, and they they know I don't like surprises. So they will put a note for me that says, I want to surprise you, just make sure you're okay with it and make sure you wear this dress because I'm gonna take you out to dinner because you're so you know, like that. It's like, who is this guy?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, you know what though? It's like that's the thing with like the social media presence. It's like they're they drive things into these extremes. There is so much content on the internet of like, I mean, I I think frankly, like too rigid and extreme of dating advice, where it's like if a guy's not doing that, you're moving on. And it's like that's crazy.
SPEAKER_01:Like, yeah, and this is where it kind of comes into the people we work with.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so we were gonna talk about how this could be relevant. I want you to complete your thought, but like that's where it's like people think this is reality.
SPEAKER_03:Right. Or it's like when certain like ways of being taken care of, and I have totally fallen prey to this. Josh and I have talked about this, where it's like assigning so much meaning to certain like gestures not being there. Like if we say, like, is having a boyfriend embarrassing? Like, that's one extreme. You can't, and I have clients come in all the time where it's like, I know, like I have to like first love myself, accept myself before almost like it's like a linear timeline. Like, I have to do this first, love myself, accept myself, then. And it's like it's all happening at once, it's all a practice. And like if you are struggling in your journey of self-acceptance and also wanting partnership, like if you get the partnership before you feel settled in your relationship with yourself, congratulations, you're on planet Earth, because nobody ever gets to a totally settled place with self. But also, like a relationship of any kind raises so many interesting questions. And of course, if it's like an abusive relationship, of course, move on. But in partnership, if your partner isn't like leaving you notes, warning you about surprises and like trigger warning and like keeping you in your comfort zone every single second, it doesn't mean they're a bad partner. Right. Or even if they lash out at you once, it doesn't mean they're a bad partner. Right. There's like not a lot of room for the middle. Like with this, it's like boyfriend embarrassing, single is it. Which, like, it's saying that, and I'm like, I don't know any person who actually feels that. And there's a difference, like you're saying, between de-emphasizing your boyfriend on your content and not wanting one, right? You know, or not wanting a partner. Right. And this is very hetero. This is like whole article is very gendered in this way. But yeah, like I'm curious what you think. I have more thoughts on the clients piece.
SPEAKER_01:On which part?
SPEAKER_03:Well, like I have thoughts on all yeah, like what that she raises in this is worth like thinking about with clients.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I think uh you know where I'm gonna go with this, which is if it's meaningful to you, where is the embarrassment coming from? Right. Yes, like how is that embarrassment speaking to you, or how is that impacting you navigating, whether it be your social media presence or your presence with your friends, or and does that really mean, are you really then being authentic in those places?
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_01:And that's not to say there isn't socially appropriate masking, and there's nothing wrong with cultivating a presence online that's different than your presence with your friends or your family. I get that. Yeah, I would just be curious if is this something like I guess I want to know what's coming up as okay, just tell me just tell me more about either if you are feeling embarrassed about having a boyfriend, like let's think about that, right? Like, right, and and what what is it that the embarrassment either drives you to or not? And if it drives you to cultivate your social media presence, that might be a very effective thing to do. I don't know. Yeah, right. Um, what are you trying to do with it that that could make total sense given the context? But I would just be worried that much like dating somebody or having a boyfriend could move you away from your values, not having one could move you away from your values, totally so avoiding it again. That really extreme where it's like, well, this is where the pendulum's swinging. Yeah, I'm just gonna be single now because this seems like you know, so I think because it's cringe, and they're called influencers for a reason. Right. They influence. So is that true to who you are?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I don't know.
SPEAKER_01:I kind of went off.
SPEAKER_03:Well, and also like it kind of brings up the larger point of like often like being your authentic self, living from that place from the wise mind, is being cringe, is like cringe city, you know, to like but then being unapologetic for it. Exactly. Like learning, like, oh, my task isn't to be less cringe. My task is to like radically own what is actually meaningful to me. And then by the way, you're gonna be less cringe, but it's like, yeah, that is having a boyfriend embarrassing now. If it is, who cares? Who cares? If you are in a happy relationship or even you want one, yeah, you know, like if that's a true desire of yours, go for it. And yeah, if you're like posting your boyfriend performatively or constantly, like it could be worth reflecting on that. Am I doing this because putting myself out there without him in the mix is embarrassing or too vulnerable or whatever, that's worth like processing a bit.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. The other thing that the article brings up, and again, I already mentioned this, but I do like the idea of timelines, maybe challenging more of the heteronormative programming we receive about partnership, marriage, just all of that. And if people are willing to explore that, it doesn't mean they're not into any of it. Yeah. I think it's fertile ground to raise questions about maybe, you know, we get influenced that having partners or the way that partnership needs to look.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um, is a certain way, and then we strive so hard for it without even questioning whether it's something we want.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_01:And so that that I think is can be really worthwhile to think about. But that could be with anything in life, is yeah, what have we been told is the path or yeah, the scripts. The scripts that we need to follow, whether that's familial, cultural, racial, you know, whatever it is. And can we just pause and take a step back and say, well, is that as I'm forming as a human into my adulthood or continuing my adulthood journey, is that still meaningful to me?
SPEAKER_03:Or was it even ever meaningful to be able to do that? Was it ever meaningful? Yeah, yeah. I think that is always a good question. And maybe the ultimate answer is to if you want a partner, just find a same-sex partner.
SPEAKER_02:Probably definitely avoid all of this BS.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. This so we didn't do pop culture today. But it's interesting too because um a very famous basketball, but you know Kevin Durant? Yeah, yeah. He's not married, and he's he's no, no, this isn't a huge reveal or anything like that. No, but he I think somebody recently kind of asked him about like, do you have a partner or anything like that? And I think he just doesn't want to put in the effort to having like a partner, like it's just kind of like a lot of and he's right, it is like effortful. I don't want to I don't want to deal with that, like that type of stuff, you know. So just from a pop culture, it was interesting to hear like somebody who's so in you know, yeah, the public eye and saying that, and famous, and just kind of like, yeah, it's not in the effort. Because there is something also to be said, probably of scripts of being a famous person and having a spouse and doing the red carpet and who you going with and what do they look like and what are they dressed as and who's your date and yeah, all that stuff. There's probably a script to follow there somehow or a few of them.
SPEAKER_03:Totally, and to just be like, no, yeah, don't want to. Too much work. Well, similar stuff comes up with like having kids, right? You know, and I you know, I almost did relate to some of this stuff, not with people talking about partners in their content, but I Have followed some influencers that became parents and their content really changed. And I disengaged from it. Not because I don't like kid content, just at that moment it wasn't so relevant to me. Yeah. And I was like, doesn't speak to you. You know, I I even thought to myself, like, I may return to this when that happens. But you know, it was like a lot of stuff of like millennials and dealing with all these different like experiences, like the millennial experience, and even like there was a lot of pop culture in this influencer. Her name's Haley Nauman, her stuff. And she had a baby, and almost every podcast was about motherhood. And I was sort of like, man, I was getting helpful like guidance on some things, or at least like thought-provoking questions, and that kind of went away. So sometimes the content does change, and like that's okay. Yeah. It's okay for me to disengage. It's okay for people to disengage from me as a person who posts social media content or has a podcast. You know, like I think there's a level of trust that like what you bring to the table, if it's authentic, will find its audience and maybe find a new audience at some point if you change. Right.
SPEAKER_01:And that's not the thing is I couldn't suss that out from the article. Are we just talking about people? Is it embarrassing because of your social media presence?
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_01:Or in your actual life when that camera or you're not on whatever. You're off your social media, you're off your phone. Is it embarrassing then? That's that's what I couldn't really I don't think there was enough meat in the article to really get a sense for that. Did you get a sense for that? I don't know. No, I feel like it was just blending all yeah. It was it was just very interesting.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it definitely could have been a bit like both like tighter and more thorough. This article, god god bless. I mean, the article did really well, so I don't feel too much. Yeah, I liked it.
SPEAKER_01:It was it was enjoyable. Yeah, interesting. Hilarious. I loved it. Totally, totally.
SPEAKER_03:I'm curious, Josh, your thoughts after we us summarizing it a little bit.
SPEAKER_00:Toasty. So what do we how do we all feel about husbands? How does this relate to the book?
SPEAKER_03:I know that's a great question. She did at one point talk about fiance. She never mentioned the word husband.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Maybe when you reach husband, because you know the like cliches of marriage are like the old wall and chain.
SPEAKER_01:Like, maybe it's a little rod.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, like maybe it becomes less embarrassing because it's like you're not like obsessed with each other all over your social media, probably 10 years into marriage. Most people.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, you are my social media. I a lot of the time I'm like, You're the light of my life, you're my social media. I'm not even in the post. What what did you say?
SPEAKER_02:You're the light of my life, you are my social media.
SPEAKER_00:You are my social media, you are my future sunshine. Sunshine. Well, maybe my only sunshine.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I I'm cutting you off right now, but let's take a step back from that. Is there a reason why husband wouldn't be in the article? Well, that would be a glaring thing. That's an interesting thing to think about. That that's just a glaring omission. Yeah. That it only has to do with boyfriend. So is that what is the subtext there that it's it's not embarrassing to be single and it's not embarrassing to be married? But it's that middle ground. Because married, you did it. You landed somebody. Well, maybe somebody likes you enough to fucking marry you.
SPEAKER_03:To marry you, to bind their life to yours financially, spiritually. Well, it's like the the what that could be is like the most embarrassing phase is that like limerence, you know, like honeymoon phase. Okay. Which like I don't see again, I think this could have been a richer article if like any of that was included. That when you're lovey, dovey kind of obsessed with each other uh to the to the strongest degree, is like, oof, don't be putting that on your social media or telling everyone in town, just like keep that shit to yourself. Which honestly, there's an interesting like argument there. As someone who like, I mean, I'm still extremely obsessed with you, Josh. You were gone for a week and I was like, this is horrible.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, we talked about that at the beginning of the pod.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, like I really love you so much. Like, I'm sure there are people in my life that are like, oh my God, shut up about Josh already.
SPEAKER_00:Well, that's why I'm always trying to d dredge up our conflict on the pod, because I feel like that's really attractive to people.
SPEAKER_03:Well, but I think I got I really I consciously I remember meeting you. I was like, I'm 33, I've been dating for a thousand years. If someone thinks me being obsessed with you, meeting you, loving you, and being obsessed with you is cringe, go for it. I don't fucking care. Like I was like, I'm so happy, I'm gonna let myself enjoy this. I'm gonna let myself just totally give over to this. And I think I did probably at times like not keep up with my friends enough. And then kind of knew on some level I'd correct that. Not that that's the way to go, but or at least try to and be more engaged, and I'm still like doing that and reconnecting. And a lot of my friends are not in the Chicago area anymore, so it's like it made it even easier to kind of get really absorbed into our relationship, and I also wanted to. So I think like, but also like I've done a ton of therapy work. So it's like I did a ton of work on my self-worth, you know, years five, six years of it before meeting you, other years before that with a different therapist, like you know, like feeling like I feel a sense of wholeness and have a rhythm with getting back to that part of me, to the wise mind. I didn't feel too vulnerable to being completely defined by my partner. I also think I am an alpha, so it's like I'm probably less likely to be that person anyway.
SPEAKER_00:But did you ever feel embarrassed to say, my boyfriend? No.
SPEAKER_03:But also, like I'm annoying and I'm a therapist, and I feel like I often say partner, which maybe makes it less. So I'm sure some people think that's more embarrassing, and some people think it's less. Like it sounds so like mature. I'm trying to think, like, where would I say my boyfriend? I feel like I said partner so much.
SPEAKER_00:I said girlfriend, and I was cringing at myself, and then I said partner and I felt like I was being overly serious. Yeah. And when I said fiance, that felt pretentious, and wife just really sounds great in the miles.
SPEAKER_02:I like why you're quite simple. See that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that was a long way around to say husbands. Yeah, and wife are not embarrassing.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, did girlfriends sound like high school.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it does sound like high school. High school, yeah. I put a note in her lock locket. And she opened it, and it said that I it said that I she doesn't like surprises. I'm gonna locket. Go ahead and warn you about the surprise. You might want to put on a smock.
SPEAKER_01:And put on a dress because of the surprises. I am that great. I'm amazing. I am that I am that amazing.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:No, girlfriend is boyfriend, is those those terms are a little bit, I guess, cringy in a way that it does feel a little childlike. Yeah. Not child, but adolescent.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, totally. Well, imagine these people that are like dating in their 70s, and like it's like, what do you want to say your boyfriend? Right.
SPEAKER_00:Crazy. You could say man friend.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, they do say things like that, like my friend, my man friend. Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:But partner just like helps. It's like, what do you yeah, party law practice partner?
SPEAKER_03:Like, well, then people get confused with business partner, they do.
SPEAKER_01:Your partner, tennis partner. Yeah, it is confusing. And I've heard people say now is very judgmental and and thinking that you you know you don't have all the information, but think people use that when they're gay.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Oh, I think probably all my clients like think I'm married to a woman.
SPEAKER_01:And so there's also a kind of stereotype there that people who are gay use partner as opposed to anybody who's a partner or yeah, girlfriend. Interesting.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Husbands, though, not embarrassing at all.
SPEAKER_02:No, wonderful.
SPEAKER_01:You and I can both speak from experience. Yeah, we're not embarrassed. We're great husbands.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I keep leaving messages that are like, I'm just I was just gonna say the same thing again.
SPEAKER_02:That's what husbands do, same old stuff. Yeah, dad jokes.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, you repeat the jokes, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then when they don't laugh, repeat it louder. Because they obviously didn't hear you.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Yeah. It's this, it is raising interesting questions. It's it's created an interesting discussion for us. So for that reason, I'm I'm interested in this article and I love it.
SPEAKER_01:And I'm glad she wrote it. But I think the the takeaway in terms of the therapy aspect is values, what's meaningful, what's authentic, exploring that. And also how much are people consuming these outside sources as a way to use almost as their guides, yeah, these influencers. Right.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Yeah. It's like, do you need to just de-emphasize social media?
SPEAKER_01:And it could be about anything, not just partnered relationships. I've had clients talk about getting so ramped up, you know, and and even almost talking about it as if like every three weeks it's a new thing that they've come up with to better themselves, where it's like they do three weeks, they saw all of these things. This is gonna get my life in order. So I'm just gonna do all of these things, right? And then that kind of loses it's like not a red shiny ball anymore. So they find something else on social media and they're like, well, this is gonna be the thing that I do now, and uh for whether wellness or self-care or uh yeah, it's like morning pages, it's like instead of just like taking a breath and thinking about no, what would actually work for me, right? And you can use social media certainly to help in a lot of ways and get ideas, and yeah, there's so many ways it could be beneficial. Also, it could just be like lemmings just following things that aren't even totally, yeah, or just like it's like a routine almost for the sake of it.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah. And maybe the routine for some people is like get rid of that boyfriend, get rid of the boyfriend, get him out of here. Either make him a husband, so embarrassing, or get him out of here.
SPEAKER_01:So embarrassing.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah. One woman in the article said she dated someone for 12 years and had put him on her social media, and now that they broke up, she would never put another partner on. I'm like, oh, that's to me, that's just a person who's like traumatized by that breakup. And they just need to process that. It's like their social media is irrelevant to that wholeness. That's heartbreak. Yeah, it's ancillary. Like, and I think if they went to therapy with a good therapist, they would sense that and know, like your social media has nothing to do with what's right for you in this moment. It's it's moving through this pain. And I'm gonna need you to post about me as your therapist.
SPEAKER_01:When you send me the article, like uh I was laughing and then I sent you all that text. I forget what my text exactly said, but it was like boyfriend bad.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, just single good.
SPEAKER_01:Like, have you ever there was an old uh Saturday Night Live skit where or an ongoing kind of skit where Phil Hartman, R I P, loved Phil Hartman. Yeah, he would play uh Frankenstein. Oh, I never saw this, and he would just always be like fire bad. Like and then he would say other things good, yeah. And he would just be like, fire bad. So I was like, boyfriend bad. Single good.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, well, that's how the internet is, yeah. Exactly. It's that extreme, right? It's like boyfriend, embarrassing, and then the next day it's like boyfriend, great, single life status, yeah. It's also like the internet's like circling the same stuff, boyfriend, bad, and then you also better have like a 12 karat rock on your finger right next week, right?
SPEAKER_01:It's like it's so and your partner should also make notes for you up on their notes about their but you should be like what off your care make for you.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah, like that's another thing. This is just like me being like it is so annoying to see the like performed, like perfect relationships, the performance, it's just like shut up already.
SPEAKER_01:I'm gonna find that article and send it to both of you because yeah, it was interesting.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah, totally. Well, should we move into our how eyes is it?
SPEAKER_01:How eyes is it?
SPEAKER_03:So one that we had come up with, and I actually did, of course, I didn't even check this on my TikTok, but I did post a question on TikTok, and the and I was like, and this will be a precursor to our how wise is it, and I haven't checked any of the responses, but how wise is it to kind of like fervently clean before company comes?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, right? Okay, didn't wait, didn't I text that to you all?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Before you all came over?
SPEAKER_03:Oh, yeah. How wise is it to clean before something before having company? Josh, is that where you got it from?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. John had said it. Oh because we were coming over and he was um explaining how we wasn't gonna clean.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, that's right.
SPEAKER_00:Are you kidding?
SPEAKER_01:I clean all the time. No, I'm doing it was clean.
SPEAKER_03:It's like this old thing, and you're like scrubbing the floorboards kind of thing.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, how wise is it to fervently Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I was gonna say obsessively, but it's like if we use the word obsessively, like it's obviously not wise.
SPEAKER_00:You actually were gonna say, how wise is it to get your house squeaky clean before having quote unquote company.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, like thoroughly cleaning your place before anyone sets foot. I mean, as a I'm in recovery with this. Okay. Because I used to clean so much. Like when we first started dating, I would clean a lot before you came.
SPEAKER_00:Oh wow.
SPEAKER_03:I remember you saying to me, because I would be like, Oh, it may not be that clean, and you'd be like, It's always clean. Like, I don't know what you're talking about.
SPEAKER_01:It was always clean.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I obviously didn't clean for you all to come over.
SPEAKER_03:We don't call you ever.
SPEAKER_01:See, this is the thing. This is the thing. It's like, for some reason, this is what pops in my mind. It's like when you look at your own face so much, yeah. And you're like, oh my god, there's this thing on my face and this thing on my face, and then you ask somebody and they're like, What are you talking about?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yes.
SPEAKER_01:It's where you live, you look at it so much and you're there so much that you find every little thing to be like, I gotta clean that, and this is out of order. And then when somebody comes in that doesn't live there, they don't spend a lot of time there and don't care.
SPEAKER_03:No. And I think when I go to a house like that's hosting me and it's like so clean. Yeah, it's like sterile. It like this makes me feel really bad about myself.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Which is a me thing, and it's worth me processing that. But it's not like I come into someone's house and it's really clean, and I'm like, I approve. It's a little more like a lot goes on there, and some of it's not good.
SPEAKER_01:Well, that's great. Well, my so yeah, my I always find it very jarring when you go to someone's house, and and you'll experience this probably at some point. When you go to somebody's house who has children and it is immaculate, there's something off with that. And there's like no toys, yeah, and there's no nothing.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:That to me is very there's something very off about that.
SPEAKER_03:What what is that?
SPEAKER_01:I don't know, but it feels well. There's two things. Is that falling? Do you need help? I just punched it. There's two things that come to mind. One is, and I'm just being fully honest, one is that there is a sense of jealousy that, oh, these people can afford somebody to come into their house and clean it. And I wish I could afford that on a regular yeah. So there's I want to shoot them point blank.
SPEAKER_02:Right, exactly.
SPEAKER_01:So there is a part of me that I think there's a deep down, like maybe like jealousy. I wish my place was this clean. Yeah. But when I peel that back, I it just feels like this doesn't even feel real. It feels like so staged. It's like you have kids.
SPEAKER_03:It's not lived in.
SPEAKER_01:No, no, not at all. And it doesn't make me feel comfortable, right? I like a place, especially a home that has kids that has like some stuff around.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, totally. I do too. I I really do like that. I think like they I even heard someone talking about this with like the architectural digest, like tours, like how they're so phony, like celebrity home tours. And like there was there was some blog. This was like pre-social media, it was like a blog where a guy would go into like semi-famous people's homes, and he really liked homes that felt really lived in. And he had this like whole series, I forget the guy's name, but like a home that really reflects the life inside of it. I like that, yeah. I love that too. And it's like it doesn't have to have like cereal spilled all over the floor, but it's like, you know, like but it's real. Some laundry on the table, some books, some toys, some north Nordstrom bags just kind of strewn over there for months at a time.
SPEAKER_01:They didn't even notice those.
SPEAKER_03:It's like, right. So it's like, yeah, like life can be shown. Right. Doesn't have to be like it's like we never lived here. Yeah. But you know, I grew up like my mom when we would have company. I mean, it was a little like we people can't really know we live here.
SPEAKER_01:It's gotta be you gotta, you gotta clean. Yeah, yeah. Like we're getting we have company, that's a whole thing. Right.
SPEAKER_03:And there's a funny like YouTube, if you guys have ever seen it, where there's a guy like screaming and raging and like pretending to be one of these moms, and he's like, We gotta throw out the furniture. Oh, yeah, I think you sent that to me once.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, like nobody can know we live here.
SPEAKER_01:Isn't there something about like the towels in the bathroom, the decorative towels versus the ones I use the decorative towel and I use this, I use the decorative. And if you're not supposed to, it's like, but this is a towel, yeah, yeah, but it's not one to dry your hands with, right?
SPEAKER_03:Like, don't even look at the decorative towel, it's just decorative, right? But then it's like taking up all the space that a usable towel would take up.
SPEAKER_01:I think it's wise to take pride in your home. Totally. And if that manifests itself in cleaning it, yeah, I don't think there's anything inherently unwise about that. Right. I think for me it's wise to do it to a certain extent and then just let it go. Yeah. And I think that bar has even gotten lower as I have children. Totally. It's so hard to maintain it. Yeah. And keep it up that it's like one end of my clean. Yeah, you gotta keep your your like choose your battles. It's like I'll do some sweeping, I'll do some vacuuming, yeah. Declutter a little bit, but that's about it.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Yeah. It's also like there's just so much shit when you have kids.
SPEAKER_01:Like so much stuff.
SPEAKER_03:Keeping it clean. You'd have to get rid of a lot of it, and you can't get rid of thirsty.
SPEAKER_01:You'd have to, yeah. That's it. That's the other thing about the like sterilness when there's just not a lot of stuff. Yeah. I'm not a big like hoarder or anything, but when it doesn't look lived in, it looks odd to me.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, totally. Like staged.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. So really fervently, though.
SPEAKER_01:I like that word.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Yeah, like really because to me, it's like I used to like really clean, clean, clean before company came over. Like you used to. And it felt very little.
SPEAKER_01:Hands and knees, toothbrush. No toothbrush, but hands and knees. On the the floorboards and everything. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And you know, like, and my mom grew up like that. Like her mom said would have them clean like all day every Saturday, all the kids. Her, she and her four siblings. You know, and there is a different, obviously, different generations of women like have maybe really believed like I keep this place so tidy, and my husband in a heterosexual relationship back in the day, you know, earns the money, and that's just like the right thing to do. This is my domain. This is my domain. Yeah. And like, so yeah, like, and I remember sometimes the cleaning felt like very like low self-worth. You know, very like if they if my place isn't clean, I'll look like immature or I'll look messy. Like as a person, I'll be.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, you attribute it to like your person.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Or like how cool I am, how like chic I am, how and it's like right when it got to that, I was like, I really need to practice like letting some of this be. You know, as it is.
SPEAKER_01:Is there anything that well let's hear Josh?
SPEAKER_00:What's your perspective? Just make just make it cozy. Just make it cozy. Like if there's a bunch of scum on the couch, it's like maybe suck that up.
SPEAKER_03:But like Yeah, you can go to the other extreme for sure.
SPEAKER_00:But if I've got a few books on the table, it's like, hey, maybe people want to read those books.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Totally. What is one thing that you're like, no, that I will maybe always have to take care of that before a company comes over.
SPEAKER_02:Well, when you come over, you're at the laundry. I I'm like, I gotta put my laundry in the office. When I come over to the laundry.
SPEAKER_03:Well, because it's like laundry that you shouldn't be subjected to.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_00:Got it, got it. Fair enough. Or sundries.
SPEAKER_02:It's laundry that as colleagues I could get in trouble. Fair enough.
SPEAKER_01:Fair enough. It'd be sued for. Any other laundry though would be okay. Or still a laundry.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, like folded laundry that's not like delicates would be fine. Yeah. I think. Mm-hmm. Laundry. Yeah. Anything else? Do you feel comfortable saying on a podcast?
SPEAKER_01:I like a I like a wipe down table. I think when companies coming over and they're gonna sit, like when you all were Yeah. Like we're gonna sit at the floor. If we're gonna sit at the table, we're gonna have coffee, something to eat. I gotta wipe down the table. Totally. Totally. That's and clothing on the floor. Dirty with kids, they'll throw their clothing, they'll just change wherever. Right. And then there's it's like I can't have that. Like you have to put that in the basket. Totally.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I I definitely think clothes on the floor gotta go.
SPEAKER_00:Get it out of the floor.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, what about you, Josh?
SPEAKER_00:Take out the trash. If the the trash is overflowing, take out the trash.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, sure. Yeah. Yeah, people might want to like throw something. Or if it smells the trash because like it's just smells.
SPEAKER_01:Even if there's just no little thing in it, you gotta take care of the smells.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Take care of the smells, the toilet. You gotta take care of the toilet. Take care of the toilet. I don't know what's going on with your toilet, but you gotta take care of it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Oh god, we we we did a bathroom clean and I just like freaked out. I was like, I can't clean a bathroom. I think it's so I like I think people dissociate as they do it, and I'm like, can't do it.
SPEAKER_01:Bathrooms are the worst though.
SPEAKER_02:I'm like, I hate cleaning a bathroom. I'm I'm really screaming at Josh. It's like you're being ridiculous.
SPEAKER_00:Well, it's funny because sometimes I think it's gross, but the second you think it's so gross, I'm like totally desensitized.
SPEAKER_03:You're like, you're being dramatic.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. But I can get grossed out, yeah. But once you were complaining, I was like licking it.
SPEAKER_02:Josh!
SPEAKER_00:Sorry.
SPEAKER_02:Am I gonna have to cut that? Don't say that.
SPEAKER_00:Do you want me to cut it?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_00:Keep it. What do you think? First take, best take. Two against one, men against woman. Husbands unite.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I've just tried embarrassing.
SPEAKER_00:There are times you've asked me to cut things and I've kept it because it's funny. Is this one of those times? Yeah, maybe. We could sit on it. Are we gonna alienate all our females?
SPEAKER_03:No, I think it's harbless essentially. It's just like making my ears.
SPEAKER_00:Cancel your dirty husband. He sounds more like a boyfriend.
SPEAKER_03:Do you do you guys have the thing of like if you see gross stuff on TV and you're eating, like if you're eating in front of the TV and something gross happens on the TV, do you lose your appetite? Not like you. Or like if people talk about something gross, do you lose your appetite?
SPEAKER_01:No, that's never really happened to me before.
SPEAKER_03:That happens to me instantly.
SPEAKER_01:No.
SPEAKER_00:Well, last night I was eating and there was like a maggot scene.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, oh, oh, oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And I like I was a low grossed out, but that's like probably pretty extreme. And I kept eating. I was eating a subway. Yeah, like it was turkey. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Am I like really enjoying hearing something gross or looking for it? No, but it doesn't. I'm still hungry.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_01:I still gotta eat.
SPEAKER_00:Kelly's still covering her ears from when I said maggots.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, you also Josh and I were at a restaurant and you started down some path of talking about something gross. I literally almost like barked in the restaurant.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, was it like a movie? Was it was it a show or a movie we had just watched?
SPEAKER_02:I was like, you cannot with a fork in my hand bring something on the show.
SPEAKER_00:I was really careful, actually mindful, of after we saw begonia to not bring up the movie during the whole dinner because that movie is pretty gross. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Begonias begonia. Yeah. Anyway, we've we've definitely wandered from the movie. We've wandered. What are we doing?
SPEAKER_01:So how wise is it? Well, maybe clean.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it's like to overly clean. Well, be you know, visit your wise mind, like slow down, connect to that inner part. Yeah. Is it wise-minded? Like, is my emotion mind driving this? You know, or what what really feels authentic, even if it's scary.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:You know, to let it be a little imperfect. Or on the other hand, some people maybe need to tidy up a little more. True. That's more wise-minded than what they're doing.
SPEAKER_00:I'd skew towards no. Just no.
SPEAKER_03:Not wise-minded. If I had to skew, you'd say leave it as is.
SPEAKER_00:I think leave it how you feel comfortable in it in your natural state. Like if it's messy to the point that it's like screwing with my own inner world, clean. Like I clean all the time and we're not having company. But then it's that next level of oh, it look needs to look extra good. I'm a little bit whatever.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, totally.
SPEAKER_00:If it's reasonably clean, if it's not distractingly clean. There's not a bag of trash on the couch.
SPEAKER_02:You mean distractingly dirty?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's what I meant. Great if the next time I come over, there's a trash.
SPEAKER_02:A bag of trash on the couch. Just someone just picked it up and put it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Nice smelly one. Like it's watching. It's a sealed bag. Yeah, you got a teddy bear in the corner, like, great. You got a teddy bear on the floor, someone's gonna trip on that. Pick it up. Pick it up. You got a boyfriend in the corner? You get a husband.
SPEAKER_02:But those boyfriends. Okay, well, that is our wow.
SPEAKER_00:We've covered a lot of ground as usual.
SPEAKER_03:And we're curious your thoughts on all this or your thoughts on future topics. Questions.
SPEAKER_01:Let us know how you feel about boyfriends.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, definitely. Write in. And if you want to reach me, you can find me at kkpsychotherapy.com. And how about you, John?
SPEAKER_01:You can email me at buttsbuttz. Jonathan at gmail.com.
SPEAKER_00:You can you can find me at joshbayerfilms.com. Bayer Like the Aspirin. I'm a filmmaker. I'm a very good filmmaker. But I I really like to edit mainly. Sure, I like to film too, but definitely if you're looking for an editor, I edit this podcast. It's pretty good. I'm not modest about it. And beyond that, I'm gonna plug my friend Matt Goodman's uh bars. Good to see you. Selling some bars. What do you call them? Like health bars or food bars?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, like um, you know, like uh I I guess you'd call them energy bars. Energy bars? I like feel like I'm like kind of That feels very 90s, but like bars.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, good bars.
SPEAKER_03:Protein bar, thank you. Protein bar?
SPEAKER_00:Protein bars. They're currently sold in one store in Birmingham, Michigan. You may be able to, I like need to know more about this, but it's called good energy. G-O-O-D good I-N-N-E-R-G-Y energy. We gotta have Matt on the pod.
SPEAKER_03:And they have no preservatives, right?
SPEAKER_00:What?
SPEAKER_03:No preservatives.
SPEAKER_00:No preservatives. Yeah, it tastes really good. Are they gluten-free?
SPEAKER_03:Gluten-free.
SPEAKER_00:I bet. Dairy-free. All right.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, you could have them.
SPEAKER_01:I'm on board.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Follow them on Instagram. Oh, yeah. Did we talk about that?
SPEAKER_03:Well we'll save that for next time. We'll let you bring that up if you want to. Bring it up. Okay. Remind me to ask you if you want to talk about it. We'll do. Okay, cool. Okay. So thanks everyone for joining us.
SPEAKER_00:Thanks to Blanket Forts.
SPEAKER_03:Thank you to blanket forts.
SPEAKER_00:Shout out. Shout out.
unknown:Bye.
SPEAKER_00:Bye.
SPEAKER_03:The Wisemind Happy Hour podcast is for entertainment purposes only, not to be treated as medical advice. If you are struggling with your mental health, please seek medical attention or counseling.