how wise is THANKSGIVING

A common favorite holiday among Americans, Thanksgiving is a day laden with food, football, and frenzy. Yes, we mostly love it...but it can also be an incredibly triggering event in the the unique way it combines family, dietary restrictions and turkey into one giant pressure cooker of autumn abundance (not to mention the historical implications.) We unpack all this (and more) on a very special episode of WISE MIND HAPPY HOUR.

- music by blanket forts -

Chapters

• 0:00 Turkey Plans And Holiday Whiplash
• 2:40 Turbulence Tales And Anxiety Humor
• 6:10 Kid Surgery Resilience And Parenting Nerves
• 11:05 Movie Skip And The Great Turkey Leg Quest
• 15:10 Air Fryer Redemption And Flavor Experiments
• 18:10 Hosting Logistics And The Timing Puzzle
• 22:00 Appetizers Debate And Start-Time Cultures
• 26:30 Family Size, Travel, And Connection Tradeoffs
• 30:00 Grief At The Table And What To Name
• 34:20 Roles, Boundaries, And Coping Ahead
• 38:10 Games, Puzzles, And Low-Stakes Connection
• 40:50 Celiac Reveal And Navigating Food Rules
• 45:10 Allergies, Vegan Guests, And Missteps
• 48:10 Menu Makeovers And Flavor Boosters
• 51:30 Sides Controversies And Leftover Strategy
• 55:20 How Wise Is Overeating On Thanksgiving
• 1:00:00 Comfort Clothes, Acceptance, And Wrap-Up
• 1:02:30 Plugs, Resources, And Happy Thanksgiving

Transcript

Turkey Plans And Holiday Whiplash

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Welcome to the Wiseman Happy Hour. I'm Kelly. And I'm John. Welcome everyone. We're gonna do, we're back, and today we're gonna do a Thanksgiving episode.

SPEAKER_00 0:16

So get your turkey next to you.

SPEAKER_01 0:18

Yeah, we'll walk you step through, step by step through hosting Thanksgiving.

SPEAKER_00 0:23

Hosting it.

SPEAKER_01 0:23

No.

SPEAKER_00 0:24

Or attending it.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

Or attending it. Yeah, we kind of will help with that. Or even like everything around the whole weekend. Challenges, bright spots. It's wild that it's here already. I mean, I can't believe it's here already. I was saying that. I'm like, and I feel like everyone says this is alright. I can't believe it's next week.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

Yeah, that's kind of one of those cliche things to say.

SPEAKER_01 0:44

No, but it really is like that. Like I feel like in Chicago it feels like it's summer, and you the next week it's like the fall holidays.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

Yeah. Well. Yeah, but we had the episode where we were talking about how it was too early to start celebrating.

SPEAKER_01 1:00

We're just never happy.

SPEAKER_00 1:01

We're never happy is what it is. It would be refreshing to be like to have somebody lean into man, this that Thanksgiving is just taking forever to get here. Yeah. Nobody ever says that.

SPEAKER_01 1:13

Oh my god, there should be. That makes me think that there should be a dedicated Instagram account to like going to the opposite of all cliches. Like a person who just like, God, it takes forever for Christmas to end. Yeah. You know. Yeah. Summer's too long. Yeah. Not enough snow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:32

You just need more snow.

SPEAKER_01 1:33

Right. Maybe I'll start the slice.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

I need more icy roads.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

In my life.

SPEAKER_01 1:38

Yeah. More slip sliding on that road. More hydroplanes. Yeah. There are people that makes me think that there are people out there that do like turbulence on a plane.

SPEAKER_00 1:48

I hate it.

SPEAKER_01 1:49

I mean, I literally every time I'm like, this is the end of my life.

SPEAKER_00 1:53

When we went to Mexico, I will go there and usually it writes itself. When we went to Mexico last year, that was the worst turbulence I've ever been on. And I was reaching behind me to find Sarah's hand because I was like, this is this is we're going down.

SPEAKER_01 2:09

Oh my God.

SPEAKER_00 2:10

We're going down.

SPEAKER_01 2:11

That see, that is really terrifying.

SPEAKER_00 2:13

Yeah. It was really bumpy. God. I think there was one other time I was going to a bachelor party in New Orleans, and that plane ride was just crazy because we were all drinking already. And so it didn't really, I mean, in retrospect, I was like, that was really bad turbulence. And everybody was like, yeah, that was. I think if I had not been drinking, that would have been real rough.

SPEAKER_04 2:35

Oh.

Turbulence Tales And Anxiety Humor

SPEAKER_00 2:36

It was like dark. Yeah. Like almost like flying through a storm. Anyway. Yeah. But it would be funny if somebody was like, that turbulence.

SPEAKER_01 2:43

Right. Good stuff. Love it. Well, I was on a plane with really bad turbulence, and two kids were like giggling and screaming and laughing. And I was like, this is like the end of the world.

SPEAKER_00 2:52

They think it's my kids were on that flight to Mexico with me, and they found it to be somewhat enjoyable because they're it almost feels like a ride.

SPEAKER_01 3:04

Yeah. Well, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:05

Because you're getting all of the ups, downs, and you're getting the butterflies.

SPEAKER_01 3:11

As an adult, I'm like, this is well, we it was New Orleans too. Maybe that's a bumpy ride in general. Maybe. But there wasn't like a mountain range, so that's weird. But maybe because you're going across tropical air. Yeah, it's like such a change in pressure or something. But we it was a storm. And I I was flying back to Chicago and we were up there, and this storm came and suddenly they told us they were gonna make an emergency landing.

SPEAKER_00 3:42

Oh I would have, I mean, at that point it was crazy.

SPEAKER_01 3:46

And and they they seemed to be. And the kids are still giggling and screaming. And I'm like, this is literally how I'm going to die. A man, I told Josh this, it was like a POW who was maybe 95 years old. The minute that it started to be like that, he got up to go to the bathroom. I was like, this is not a real scene.

SPEAKER_04 4:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:23

He was also like eight feet tall, so he was like falling over everywhere. He was so old. And I was just like, oh my God. And so they did the emergency landing in like Iowa. We were near Illinois. Anywhere. And when we touched down, the girl behind me was like crying so much and she couldn't talk. She was so scared. I'm sure. And her and I was like, once we touched down, I was like, whoo, we're okay. Like I was able to be like, it's fine. And she was like, he's like, she needs to get off this plane. Like, we're not taking it the rest of the way. And the flight attendant was so annoyed with them that it actually made me feel calm because she was like, What are you? It's fine. Like she was like, I've been on a million of these. We did emergency landing every other week. Like that was her attitude. And she didn't want to let it be.

SPEAKER_00 5:13

For them, it's breathing, basically.

SPEAKER_01 5:15

Exactly. And something about that made me feel very like, all right, we're gonna be able to do that. We'll be totally fine. And then the storm did pass. Well, sure. And we went up. It's still it was crazy. That was the craziest flight I've ever been on.

SPEAKER_00 5:28

Have you ever seen Fight Club? Yeah. I always think of that scene where Ed Norton's imagining the planes colliding and it's it's like a slow motion scene where he's the whole cabin is ripped apart and it's open, and he's just kind of like looking and panning.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:47

That's what I always think of. When I'm on a flight and there's turbulence, that's gonna be me.

SPEAKER_01 5:51

Totally, totally.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

It slows down. This is the end of your life.

SPEAKER_01 5:56

Yeah, yeah. Oh my god. I know it it's very scary. Great intro to this episode. Great intro. We're just like freaking down for no reason.

SPEAKER_00 6:04

We're gonna land this plane though, every day.

SPEAKER_01 6:06

Totally, totally.

Kid Surgery Resilience And Parenting Nerves

SPEAKER_00 6:07

I didn't bring up last week, I mentioned to you off the mic, uh, my youngest had his adenoids report.

SPEAKER_01 6:15

Oh, yes. Tell us about it.

SPEAKER_00 6:18

Well, so brave. I mean, that's the real takeaway, is just how resilient children are. Totally. It's eight years old, had to go to the hospital, couldn't eat in the morning, which is half the battle, because you're gonna be under sedation. Yeah. So cranky. He went right in and was able to do it, I think. But as a parent, again, it just it's tough.

SPEAKER_01 6:41

Oh my god, were you really nervous the whole time?

SPEAKER_00 6:44

The people there, top down from like front desk all the way through, nurses are so nice that that helps so much. So, really gotta shout out Lurie Children's Hospital here in Chicago. Just amazing people, yeah. So nice. Um, and yeah, it's like it's really nerve-wracking. Yeah. So totally. My oldest was great. He wrote a letter to my youngest to make sure that he was okay.

SPEAKER_01 7:14

Make sure they give him the real medicine.

SPEAKER_00 7:15

Not yelling, I hate you to anybody. Very sage wisdom.

SPEAKER_01 7:20

That is incredible for an older sibling to be like, listen, don't yell, I hate you. Pro tip to anyone there. These people are caring for you.

SPEAKER_00 7:28

And don't yell.

SPEAKER_01 7:30

Oh my god, amazing. I'm so glad he made it through that. So now what can he expect in terms of like well?

SPEAKER_00 7:36

He got the adenoids and ear tubes. He already had ear tubes once. Okay. Loved him so much, he had to get him. He's like, I can't get enough. Uh, nothing. I mean, it was a really they said the recovery might be painful in terms of like throat, eating. He was fine.

SPEAKER_01 7:52

And what's like the goal?

SPEAKER_00 7:53

The goal is he won't get as many ear infections. Oh, the adeno contribute to the fluid buildup. He has some sort of structural thing in his ear, so he needed the tubes as well.

SPEAKER_01 8:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 8:05

And so my parents ended up coming down to help so that we didn't have to take so much time off of work, which was great to have them down to see the boys and take care of him. But he was like, he was great.

SPEAKER_01 8:18

Wow. I know. Did he go back to school?

SPEAKER_00 8:20

He was off a total the day of the surgery and then two more days. He probably only needed the two though. So he only he went Monday and Friday. The middle of the week was nice. Was off.

SPEAKER_01 8:34

That's how I want my week to be. Right? Friday. Living the life. Yeah. But he was ready to go back to school. Tell everyone.

SPEAKER_00 8:41

Tell everyone, and just stop being around me. Stop being around his parents. Asking him if he's if it's okay. I'm fine. Yeah. It's fine. Yeah. It's just amazing, though. Such a scary thing. And I think it's they don't, their world is very small. And that can be kind of like the plane.

SPEAKER_01 9:03

Oh, I mean, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:04

Where it's like you're you don't understand the ramifications of it. And this was a very safe surgery, obviously. Yeah. It's you're still being put under though. Anytime. Yeah. It's almost protective that their worldview, they just don't understand the consequences. Sometimes in certain situations, I wish I could go back to that.

SPEAKER_01 9:21

Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, I talk with clients a lot about how like ultimately returning to your self-worth, like reconnecting with it, is like remembering. We talked about this with worth at birth, you know, like when you see kids or you even remember yourself young, you have an innate sense of entitlement. And I don't mean that word in like the negative way. I mean like, you know, I want a popsicle now. Right. There is like a sense of like I deserve the things I want. And as a parent, you kind of help like put bumpers around that so that they can like share in that deservingness with the deservingness of everyone else around them. But it's not to like say they're undeserving. But yeah, like that that like purity. Oh it's so wonderful.

SPEAKER_00 10:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:12

Life just breaks you down.

SPEAKER_00 10:14

I know. So that was my week recovering with my son, even though it wasn't much of a recovery.

SPEAKER_01 10:20

Nice. Well, that's great.

SPEAKER_00 10:21

I know.

SPEAKER_01 10:22

Last week that was.

SPEAKER_00 10:23

How did you do?

SPEAKER_01 10:26

Yeah, good question.

SPEAKER_03 10:28

Oh, we both got aanoid surgery. You both got ear too?

SPEAKER_01 10:32

I could I got the bug after hearing about Shane, and that's why I went and got it. No, um okay, so for the weekend, oh, we saw a movie. We're really we're movie addicts. We saw this movie called Sentimental Value. Honestly, it was okay. People were like raving about it. I think it's kind of a skip.

SPEAKER_03 10:53

Skip. Um, I mainly want to skip talking about it.

Movie Skip And The Great Turkey Leg Quest

SPEAKER_01 10:56

Yeah, we don't do credit. Did you ever see the worst person in the world? It's the same director. No, it's a great movie. You should see that one. I really love that movie. But it was like the same main actress, um, Stellan Skarsgard was in this. Okay. It was like a father-daughter relationship set in um. He's the oldest Skarsgard. He's the dad.

SPEAKER_00 11:16

Right. Yeah. So he was in Girl with a Dragon Tattoo. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 11:20

Oh my god, he was incredible in that. So scary. Okay. But yeah, so we did that. Oh, oh my gosh. So we're talking about Thanksgiving today. I'd watched, I feel like I've already mentioned her a hundred times in the pod, but Alison Roman, shout out to Allison Roman. I love her recipes. She did two years ago, I think, she did a turkey recipe where instead of doing a whole turkey, she did the leg, the whole leg, right? The leg and the thigh attached. She did like four of those, like cooked low and slow, steeped in fat. So, like a mix of olive oil and schmalt chicken fat for three hours, and then you take the top off to another hour to like roasty toast it and you brine the turkey first. So I was like, I'm gonna do this. Like, because I'm not making Thanksgiving on Thursday, but my brother and his family are coming over to my mom's and they're vegan. So I was gonna make a protein for a turkey protein for the meat eaters in the group. So I I go to Whole Foods with Josh, and did I go with you or was I by myself?

SPEAKER_03 12:26

You went alone. I went alone because you abandoned me at the coffee shop.

SPEAKER_01 12:29

That's right. Totally. Um the plot thickens. Yeah, oh yeah. I was like, I'm gonna run to Whole Foods because I'm bored of doing work at this coffee shop. And he was like on a roll. So I was like, okay. And then the minute I leave, he's like, they're closing. I was like, shit. Josh just had to like wander and find another one. But I asked the guy behind the counter at the butcher area, I was like, Do you have like the the turkey legs? And he was like, Oh, we don't get those till like ripe before Thanksgiving, which I was like, that's kind of crazy because people can freeze them.

SPEAKER_00 13:02

Is that yeah, due to freshness, maybe?

SPEAKER_01 13:04

Yeah, maybe, but they had big old turkeys. So I was like, like, what am I gonna do? So I was like, I guess I'll practice this with chicken. So I like put it all together, it's really good. It's like a bunch of fat, and then you do like sage and rosemary in there. I mean, it is so good, and salt and pepper, and I like steeped it in there. I also did like a squash in this with the same method, like low and slow for hours and hours. I did that, I don't know if you've ever done this, where you're like setting the timer and you accidentally turn off the oven.

SPEAKER_00 13:44

That sounds like I know I've messed up the timer before.

SPEAKER_01 13:49

Okay, so you know, Josh and I were waiting, watching this new show, which we love called The Beast and Me. It's great if people are into it, but it's Clarence.

SPEAKER_00 13:56

You don't like to and it's just sitting in there with no heat.

SPEAKER_01 14:01

I literally, and I'm not even smelling it, but I'm not realizing it. So then I opened the door three hours later, cold oven. Oh no, I mean, I was like, I couldn't believe it was kind of late too. It was like 9:30 at night. We had already waited a long time to eat.

SPEAKER_03 14:15

I was like, I'd say cold turkey, but it was chicken. Oh, well played. Well played.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

I mean, I truly was like, this can't be happening. And Josh goes, is it cooked at all?

SPEAKER_03 14:28

I was like, no, is it medium rare? I was trying so hard not to seem upset.

SPEAKER_01 14:34

I mean, you did a great job. You were so medium rare turkey. Oh my god. So I quickly punted and I was like, I don't want to waste all this oil because like you can't reuse the oil if it there's raw meat in it. You can't reuse any of that. So we did end up cooking it. Josh stayed up late for it till like 12 30. We were both up pretty late. We were both up pretty late. But I then I took two of the chicken legs out, roasted them for 22 minutes in the oven and the air fryer.

SPEAKER_03 15:01

Air fryer.

SPEAKER_00 15:03

I'm like, stop Irish fryer. The air fryer. So the air fryer comes back for the win.

Air Fryer Redemption And Flavor Experiments

SPEAKER_01 15:09

Air fryer absolutely saved our life.

SPEAKER_00 15:11

Play the tape. Let's go back. Let's go back. I know we visit that episode audience.

SPEAKER_01 15:16

I was like shitting on it.

SPEAKER_00 15:18

And now I look still against it.

SPEAKER_01 15:20

Yeah, and it's it really saved us.

SPEAKER_00 15:22

What I will say though is you used it the way you said is the only way to use it in the original when we talked about it, which was you have to put so much oil on something for it to work.

SPEAKER_01 15:32

100%. And these were literally still three hours in slow soaking in that oil. And they were the juiciest fruit of chicken you've ever had.

SPEAKER_00 15:43

So basically, you just brined it for three hours.

SPEAKER_01 15:45

Yeah, kind of. Yeah. That's not bad. Yeah, totally. So it was very delicious. We and then we ate the real one the next day for lunch. Yeah. Holy hell was it good. Yeah. And then we saved the oil. I strained it. So it's like this like rosemary chicken fat sage oil. I I'm gonna put it put it on a salad this week.

SPEAKER_02 16:07

John, John, you John, you want to take a sniff?

SPEAKER_01 16:09

We could probably even give you a little. Oh, a sniff. It's like cooking with that. It's like all it's like an infusion. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:16

Well, that's the only way. I guess we're getting into the Thanksgiving.

SPEAKER_01 16:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:20

I feel like the only way to even make turkey somewhat enjoyable is to make sure that you brine it or deep fry it.

SPEAKER_01 16:27

Right.

SPEAKER_00 16:28

Yes. Like you have to brine it, otherwise, it's dry. Completely. Yeah. I don't know if oh, I'm gonna get a sniff.

SPEAKER_03 16:34

It's the oil.

SPEAKER_00 16:35

Oh, yeah. Live sniff.

SPEAKER_01 16:39

I also have the chocolate.

SPEAKER_00 16:41

I can smell it right away.

SPEAKER_01 16:43

Isn't it nice? Do you like rosemary?

SPEAKER_00 16:45

I love rosemary.

SPEAKER_01 16:46

Okay. Me too. Allison Roman does not like it.

SPEAKER_00 16:49

Allison Roman doesn't like rosemary.

SPEAKER_01 16:52

She put thyme in hers.

SPEAKER_00 16:53

I mean, I love thyme as well. I like oregano. Some people call it oregano.

SPEAKER_01 16:59

Yeah, I know my cousins in Ireland call it that.

SPEAKER_00 17:02

Well, I think that, yeah, Gordon Ramsay calls it oregano.

SPEAKER_01 17:04

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:05

I like all those seasonings. And I think all of those are great seasonings for poultry. So good. And rosemary's great with potatoes as well.

SPEAKER_01 17:13

Oh yeah, maybe I'll put rosemary on the potatoes this week.

SPEAKER_00 17:18

Or you could even put that oil in the cast iron and then you could put your potatoes, cut them in half, put them down. Smash them. Well, or just so maybe boil. Well, you do a lot of things with or not. You do a lot of things.

SPEAKER_01 17:31

Yeah. But make sure that oil's part of it. Latkas in the Oh, yeah, because we were going to do our Hanukkah party. I was just thinking about that the other day when we want to do it. Because we could make it.

SPEAKER_00 17:41

I thought for a second you were drinking the oil.

SPEAKER_03 17:45

I just wanted to fake you out. You just took a swing of it. I have three different beverages and none of them are the oil. Yeah. But I could bring it over here and take a sip if it would make your night.

SPEAKER_00 17:54

No, no. Yeah, so turkey. So hosting. What goes on? Hosting, yeah. Yeah, we were just anything else.

Hosting Logistics And The Timing Puzzle

SPEAKER_01 18:04

No. I mean, we talked about skipping the movie. Yeah, skipping the movie. Um, no, I mean, if we're slow soaking your poultry in oil in a cold oven. I love it. Um scream. I mean, it was completely nuts like sitting there for three hours. Like, next to the oven.

SPEAKER_00 18:21

I'm not smelling it.

SPEAKER_01 18:23

Oh real. You know, it's like low and slow. You're like, but this smells pretty subtle. Yeah, it's just it's just less than it's. It's in the Dutch oven, it's fine. Yeah, like, oh my god. Josh is like, is it cooked at all? That is a supportive. Like, oh my god. I I said to him, I was like, I'm never allowed to use the oven timer ever. It's the microwave timer or my phone, and that's because I will turn off that oven.

SPEAKER_00 18:49

Have you ever hosted Thanksgiving?

SPEAKER_01 18:51

No, I never have. No, I I feel very intimidated thinking about it. Have you?

SPEAKER_00 18:56

I've hosted a a few times, very small, though, usually like two to four people. Um other than my, you know, two or four Sarah and the kids.

SPEAKER_01 19:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:07

Still a lot though.

SPEAKER_01 19:08

So a total of eight.

SPEAKER_00 19:09

Yeah. I mean, that's a lot. Yeah. Last time we hosted last year was the boys were so helpful. They wanted, they put on little now. My kids wear athleisure wear every single day of their life. There's nothing but athleisure wear. So cool. They do have though these almost like, you know, those uh golf polos kind of shirts. So they're not really.

SPEAKER_01 19:33

Yeah, they're kind of like almost like vinyl or yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:36

They like put them on to help prepare the meals. So they're in like shorts and athleisure wear, wearing those, trying to like run around and help. But they were actually really helpful. They set the table and that made a big difference to have even that amount of help. I think this the biggest stressor for me in doing it was the timing.

SPEAKER_01 19:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:57

Oh to try to get multiple things done at the same time while only using a stove oven, and I pretty much have the same setup you do.

SPEAKER_01 20:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:07

Stove, oven, and toaster oven.

SPEAKER_01 20:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:11

It's tough. Oh god.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

I mean, I people it seems like people who host, they've got a whole system where it's like three days before it's this, two days before it's this. It's like it's almost like who hosts Thanksgiving should kind of just like do it from here to forth because it's like to to pinch hit of that, like a hundred different things. And the turkey, I was watching a video today where he was making a turkey. He's like, You're gonna be basting this every 20 minutes.

SPEAKER_00 20:40

You're right.

SPEAKER_01 20:40

I mean, I'm like, what?

SPEAKER_00 20:41

And what is it, 15 minutes a pound or something? 20 minutes a pound, depending on how big your bird is or something.

SPEAKER_01 20:46

Yeah, it's just a lot, and whereas, like I was looking into making a chuck rust for when we do have Hanukkah, you know, it's salt and pepper, put it in there, put the lid on, right, and you cook it for like an hour for every pound. Done. Set it and forget it. Yeah, and turn the oven on. But like, I mean, I haven't to base it every 20 minutes. It's a lot, and then it's like if I'm only making a turkey, okay. But like the host is making 12 other things.

SPEAKER_00 21:18

Like, well, therein lies, is it wise? And my parents have Steven and Deborah, I know you're listening, um, shout out embodied this more, which I'm proud of them for doing it. Asking people to bring a dish. 100%.

SPEAKER_01 21:34

I think you've got to do that. If I were hosting, I might the turkey might be the only thing I do.

SPEAKER_00 21:40

I think that's kind of wise to limit it to the turkey and maybe something, one other thing.

SPEAKER_01 21:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:46

Because then there's even the days before if you're a pie family. I grew up in a pie family, so you're making those a couple days or the night before.

SPEAKER_01 21:54

Oh, because your mom is a baker.

Appetizers Debate And Start-Time Cultures

SPEAKER_00 21:56

She is. Wow. What is what does she make? Uh pie-wise or just baking wise, like Thanksgiving-wise. Thanksgiving-wise, very traditional apple pie and uh pumpkin pie. Wow. But homemade crust. Homemade crust. So, you know, you gotta let that refrigerate. So you pre-bake that. You gotta pre-make the the dough. I don't think she pre-bakes it. I think she pre-makes the dough and then it's gotta be refrigerated. The refrigerated so there's that before you're even. I mean, you're starting the week on Tuesday.

SPEAKER_01 22:31

I mean, truly. I think I think the real cooks in the world are are yeah, like week of it's game time.

SPEAKER_00 22:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:40

This was when having a stay-at-home spouse could be real handy.

SPEAKER_00 22:45

Yeah, not a stay-at-home boyfriend.

SPEAKER_01 22:48

Get rid of him. Embarrassing. My mom was asking me today if she's like, if it's okay to be single and okay to be married, like how does one get from one to the other? And I was like, I think you're taking it too literally. But it was funny. That is a really funny question. Yeah, I was like, that is exactly. But no, but we were then boyfriend bad. She did get it. But then she was like, um, I was like, it's kind of like de-emphasizing them on social media. Anyway, I digress. But if you have a boyfriend, don't bring them to Thanksgiving.

SPEAKER_00 23:16

That's well, so the stress for me of hosting is not just, and this this will fall right up, I feel like Josh's alley. Is for me the stress was the timing of it, and then constantly asking people, are they okay? Do they need something else? Getting the hors d'oeuvres out, do you need another drink? Do you need a because I feel like you're so gracious as a host of making sure everybody has what they want. And I feel like that's almost a distraction, or it was a distraction for me when I was like trying to prepare the meal, where it was like, I just need to calm down on like people are adults here, right? They can do what they need to do. I need to stop with that.

SPEAKER_01 23:56

So well, you're yeah, Josh, I'm curious your thoughts.

SPEAKER_03 23:59

What are my thoughts? I I just realized that John, I only asked you once tonight. I didn't even ask you if you wanted anything.

SPEAKER_00 24:05

No, you did. You brought over the two spindrifts.

SPEAKER_03 24:07

Right, but then I was gonna ask you follow up. You need anything else? I'm gonna I think I've gotten laxies. We don't clean, we don't provide anything for you. You provide everything for me. Oh, we're just extracting your audio for the pop.

SPEAKER_00 24:22

Everything I need. But I do think as a caretaker, which I believe you are, you are I feel like, and I feel I fall into that as well. I want everybody, do you need anything? But sometimes it's just like I just need to cut it out and totally do what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_03 24:36

I've never hosted Thanksgiving, but I have had 10 friends over where I'm the host. Um, usually over my mom's in West Bloomfield. Yeah, I feel like I can spend the entire night just making people drinks and like DJing, and then I'm like, I'm not even like socially interacting at all. Right.

SPEAKER_01 24:55

I think that is the hardest thing.

SPEAKER_00 24:58

Yeah, that's a balancing act to be able to host and try to socialize or engage. That's tough.

SPEAKER_01 25:04

So tough. Like, and I and I relate to what you're saying where it's like I I have a bit of a like a people-pleasing part really comes up for me when people come over. I mean, not you because you come over every week, but I'm I live here. Yeah, you basically just guy in the couch, basically.

SPEAKER_00 25:23

They prop me up once a week to do the show, and then I just go to sli I hibernate for a week.

SPEAKER_03 25:29

Totally. Wait, John, did you see our clip that was literally this where I said you live under the side?

unknown 25:34

No.

SPEAKER_03 25:36

That was our joke. It's now a running joke. It's actually Josh and T.

SPEAKER_00 25:40

It is, but like they wheel me out of the bed or up from under the bed, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:44

But like I do get very like wanting to make sure everyone's really comfortable in a way that makes me like overspend before party and provide too many complicated dishes. I have done that, and then it's like I'm not enjoying any part of it. And then I can't do the like talking and cooking and whatever. Like, I don't have enough like mileage hosting to be like, where are the boundaries with that? Because I've also been in someone's kitchen where they're like, get out of here, I'm cooking.

SPEAKER_00 26:11

And I'm like, honestly, mad respect because that is yeah, that's what you need to do to do that, even to tell people I got it.

SPEAKER_01 26:20

Yeah. Or to give people like a task right when they get in the door.

Family Size, Travel, And Connection Tradeoffs

SPEAKER_00 26:24

I've shot myself in the foot hosting not Thanksgiving, but other you know, times hosting at our place where I do go way overboard on the hors d'oeuvres, and then people aren't hungry for what I make. And I'm kicking myself for that. I'm like, just put out maybe two things. Yeah, if that they came here to eat, don't give them the pre-meal meal.

SPEAKER_01 26:46

Okay, so there's a guy who works at New York Times Cooking. I don't even know if he still does. I think his name's like Sam. They call him Mr. Thanksgiving. Oh, yeah. He's like maybe he was like the editor-in-chief of that section. Now I'm like, did he get canceled? I actually don't know. I don't think so. But he says no appetizers allowed at Thanksgiving.

SPEAKER_00 27:11

None.

SPEAKER_01 27:12

And they were everyone was shocked when he said this.

SPEAKER_00 27:14

That's pretty shocking.

SPEAKER_01 27:16

He's like, I'm not spending five days preparing this meal for you to fill up on someone's fucking dip. And that's a take that I honestly respect. He said he'll put out like a little bit of mixed nuts, or, and this was completely unhinged. He's like, or oysters. Those are your two options. And I was like, okay, tell us you're like a preppy New England guy. Why don't you? You could have cashews or you could have oysters or oysters. Yeah. I everyone was like up in arms when he said oysters on the podcast because they're like, that would take a lot of restraint.

SPEAKER_00 27:50

Yeah. To not, for me, to not have anything out.

SPEAKER_01 27:54

I know, because you'd feel bad, people like milling about. Also, people might get kind of drunk.

SPEAKER_00 28:00

Well, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:01

Yeah. Nothing to munch on. Yeah. Which also could be kind of fun. Couldn't make it a real party vibe. Right.

SPEAKER_03 28:09

More of a party vibe. What if you just like never have any food and everyone gets so drunk?

SPEAKER_00 28:13

That's like, wait, I didn't turn the oven on. All right, you can have this cold. Looks like we're drinking another honeycake.

SPEAKER_01 28:20

Looks like I'm filling up your glass again.

SPEAKER_00 28:22

It looks like you're having another brewski. Yeah. I think that also see, yeah. Well, what is your family? Like, when does it start? Because I think that plays into it too. When do people arrive?

unknown 28:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:34

How much is it? When does the home, if you're if you're hosting, when does it open? Like, when do people come over?

SPEAKER_01 28:40

Well, Josh and I were just saying this is where our families are totally separate. We ours starts in my family, the one we're going to this year starts at 2 p.m. Yeah. So it's like pretty early. I love that. You love that. What what about you guys?

SPEAKER_00 28:53

Well, if the Packers are on in the first game at 11, it starts at 11.

SPEAKER_01 28:58

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 28:59

People are coming over at 11.

SPEAKER_01 29:00

And is are there two meals? There's one.

SPEAKER_00 29:03

We'll see. Therein lies kind of the grazing. There's a lot of grazing that happens. I come from a family of grazing.

SPEAKER_01 29:11

Of grazing. Okay. So it's almost like you serve the turkey between lunch and dinner, sort of.

SPEAKER_00 29:15

So it's probably on the earlier side of dinner. Like you're not doing a you're not well, you're not doing like a six o'clock, probably. Right. If people are coming over that early, it's probably closer to four. But there's a lot of dishes that are out or appetizers or things. See, that's where it gets tricky.

SPEAKER_01 29:32

Well, yeah. Yeah, if it's an all-day thing, you absolutely have to get appetizers. It's almost like people are like asleep on the floor.

SPEAKER_00 29:44

I'm just imagining my family. That'd be great.

SPEAKER_01 29:48

And then people be like, how do I get home?

Grief At The Table And What To Name

SPEAKER_00 29:50

I think two, though, is a pretty that's yeah. I yeah. I've never we were never the family where it was. Dinner where it was just like it's a Thanksgiving dinner. You arrive at dinner time. It was it's like a day-long right.

SPEAKER_01 30:06

Yeah. Well, your family, Josh, when we went last year and the year before, it's at like seven.

SPEAKER_03 30:11

Is it was it uh six at the early?

SPEAKER_01 30:13

Maybe six at the yeah, what do you all do all day?

SPEAKER_03 30:15

It might be seven.

SPEAKER_01 30:16

So it's funny, like again, this is different too. Because like I grew up, well, yeah, Josh and I watched a bunch of TV and like drank wine. In the day? In the day, which was super fun.

SPEAKER_03 30:26

We listened to a bunch of Father John Misty.

SPEAKER_01 30:30

Because like in Josh's family, he his mom and stepdad do all the cooking, and we don't really like lift a finger. And in mine, like I grew up, I'm running to the store, I'm making at least one dish. Yeah. Not, I mean, not when I was young, young, and I guess less so for Thanksgiving with my dad's family at the big Thanksgiving. But like with most holidays, like I'm doing stuff or I'm pitching in. And we kind of got to put our feet up, which was nice.

SPEAKER_03 30:59

Didn't we make some big like bowl of wine or something?

SPEAKER_01 31:03

We made a punch.

SPEAKER_03 31:05

Oh, a punch. Right? We I think it was a punch. Like cranberry sparkle or something. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:12

Yeah, you're right, actually. The second year we did that, just last year. So we did do a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 31:17

But you were a little like, I feel like I want to contribute.

SPEAKER_01 31:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:20

So we were pretty adamant about it.

SPEAKER_01 31:22

Yeah, like do something, and it was so fun. But yeah, it's kind of just was like cooking and preparing. But yeah, like the one we'll go to on Thursday, it's like it's an hour over an hour away. So we'll like we'll be heading up there beginning of the day. Pretty much. And there's a turkey bowl. My cousins play football.

SPEAKER_00 31:39

Turkey bowls. Very popular.

SPEAKER_01 31:41

Do you do a turkey bowl with the boys?

SPEAKER_00 31:42

No.

SPEAKER_01 31:42

No.

SPEAKER_00 31:43

No. Maybe that's something as they get older, they'll if their friends are around, they'll do that during the day.

SPEAKER_01 31:49

Someone gets injured like every year.

SPEAKER_00 31:53

It's usually a bunch of grown men trying to relive some sort of fantasy of being a football hero. 100%.

SPEAKER_01 31:59

And it's cold and everyone's gonna be able to do that.

SPEAKER_00 32:01

Yeah, you're overexerting, nobody's stretching. Right. It's bad news.

SPEAKER_01 32:05

Yeah, totally. But yeah. Yeah. So there's a lot to think.

SPEAKER_00 32:09

We've we barely even scratched the surface. There's a lot to think about with Thanksgiving.

SPEAKER_01 32:12

Well, and then we haven't even gotten to like the emotional dynamics.

SPEAKER_00 32:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:17

You know, like what do you think for you is the hardest, like interpersonal element? Um, listening to you sneeze is probably the hardest on the recording.

SPEAKER_00 32:33

Um, the hardest interpersonal. Hmm. I think for me it's and maybe this is a little bit phasing itself out because my kids are growing, but there was a there was a time where I felt like all of my attention had to be on them. And it was really tough to have any time to socialize with like the adults.

SPEAKER_01 32:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:57

And catch up with family that I hadn't seen in a while. And so I think that was that I there were times in years where I could notice myself getting frustrated that it was I can't just sit back and relax and looking at other people who were just sitting back and relaxing and having conversations. And I felt like I had to still be like really on as a parent.

SPEAKER_01 33:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:21

And I I do felt like that would sometimes not sour me on the day, but it there were just moments where it's like, oh, I just kind of want to like a break from this, you know, and just like want to be able to have adult conversations. So um, but I think that's I mean, my kids are certainly much more autonomous now. And um, yeah, I think that's that's the first thing that comes to mind.

Roles, Boundaries, And Coping Ahead

SPEAKER_01 33:41

Yeah, that I mean that sounds like a big challenge, you know. To I feel like I definitely could see clients navigating that too. Because like you are still parenting them there, obviously. And even though it's maybe maybe a house full of people, like you're the one responsible. And there's like cooking stuff going on, there's sharp instruments, there's you know, yeah, like definitely I was gonna say, I think um like balancing seeing everyone and connecting, which is a version of what you're saying, like feeling like you really get to like have an actual connecting moment with people, and even just like we have trouble between our two families and my dad's side, my mom's side, like even physically being anywhere, but let alone like feeling emotionally connected. It is kind of hard, and ours has so many people at it. I think there was like 56 people at the one we're going to.

SPEAKER_00 34:46

It's like huge. My family's small, so yeah, that sounds nice for Thanksgiving.

SPEAKER_01 34:53

Yeah, the one we go to, we're gonna do like a little mini Thanksgiving on Wednesday.

SPEAKER_00 34:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:57

And that will be more, I think it's 12 people or something. So that'll be better. But yeah, it to really feel connected, and this is in general with the holidays. Like now we have so much, so many people we want to see. Yeah. And like our friends reached out the other day, like, are you coming in for Thanksgiving to Michigan? And we were like, We're not going this year, we'll be there the weekend after Christmas. And they're like, Okay, we'll see you then, which I so exciting. I I love the idea that like when we come in, we get to see them, but then we were like, We're only there for three days. Like, we're probably supposed to be mostly with family, right?

SPEAKER_00 35:33

And we want to see the family, so it's like, man, it is really hard to this year, too. Is this will be the first year without my maternal grandfather? He passed away this year, so this will be the first holiday season without him. Yeah, and so I'm a little wary of just where I'm gonna be at emotionally, and also uh I you know, I'm hoping it's more connecting than anything that we're all gonna be together, and if it's difficult, we'll all be there for one another. But yeah, I think that's also it'll be my first time really in a different way feeling the loss than how I have currently been feeling it.

SPEAKER_01 36:15

Yeah. Well, that's another thing that comes up. It's like grief really comes up around stuff like this.

SPEAKER_00 36:21

Right.

SPEAKER_01 36:21

Was he um really like into Thanksgiving?

SPEAKER_00 36:25

Loves Thanksgiving and loved the just classic meals, the turkey, the mashed potato, like straight across the plate. Wanted all of it, um, the pie, like just all like American kind of guy, and was such a huge football fan. Doesn't matter the game, but there were always really special occasions when the Packers would play on Thanksgiving. He, you know, everybody would be in their Packer gear, their regalia. So yeah, it's it was definitely you know, Thanksgiving and Christmas were holidays. I feel he was very excited to celebrate with the family for multiple reasons, and so yeah, it's uh it's gonna be very different.

SPEAKER_01 37:08

Yeah, so yeah, that is that is gonna be different. Yeah, and I feel like if grief comes up, it it's so hard because it's like here's your chance to like support each other around the loss, like you're all getting together, you have time off work, but it's almost like making the loss also more visceral.

SPEAKER_00 37:31

Yeah, and who that that's another interpersonal maybe difficulty is does anybody wanna talk about it or does any you know, as a therapist? Yeah, I wouldn't mind if maybe we talked about it, but I know that there I can think of people in my family that probably just want to enjoy the right, not that that wouldn't be enjoyable, but just maybe this is a way to be together and not talk about it in that way. So those are also interpersonal things where I don't know, should I step in, should I say something about missing him? About, you know, those are those are things I'm kind of kicking around in my head too.

Games, Puzzles, And Low-Stakes Connection

SPEAKER_01 38:07

I know it's like as therapists, you might have more of an urge to name it. It's funny though, it's like sometimes, like, I don't know about you, but like around my family, like the therapist urges really get superseded by just my like regressive tendencies around my family.

SPEAKER_00 38:26

Well, sure, you're back to yeah, everybody's back in their role.

SPEAKER_01 38:29

You're back at the kids' table. Totally. Like maybe not being empathic and the way I should be.

SPEAKER_00 38:35

Sure. But yeah, like I I think that's definitely something, yeah. I mean, I think that what you just said about roles is coming up, not the edible roles, but roles that we have that's been coming, you know, and it has previously around the holidays when the difficulty of navigating people will say, when I go back home, I'm right, I'm 10 years old again, and my parents treat me like I'm 10 years old again. Or so is that the time to assert like I'm an adult, or you know, to have that conversation, or do you need to have a pre-conversation about, you know, when I come here on these holidays, sometimes I feel like you're treating me like a child. So I think those are very real conversations that we have in the theory, or you know, that I've had recently in the past couple of years around the holidays.

SPEAKER_01 39:27

Um do you find them successful?

SPEAKER_00 39:31

I think if people well what define success.

SPEAKER_01 39:35

Well, like something is gained.

SPEAKER_00 39:38

I think yes, I think if people are looking at it in terms of what's realistic for that day, I think it can be successful. I think a lot of the conversations or the issues around like roles or things like that are just larger conversations that aren't gonna happen on that day. So I think it's hearing that, allowing the space for people to explore that and also say, but what's bringing for me as a therapist, bringing it back to, but what what is the day gonna look like?

SPEAKER_01 40:11

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 40:13

How are you going to, if that if they treat you like a 10-year-old, maybe you're not gonna lash out at them like a 10-year-old, right? Like how I love that.

SPEAKER_01 40:21

You know, how do you like notice being kind of positioned there and not embody that not embody that, yeah, yes, I love that.

SPEAKER_00 40:30

So I think a lot of coping ahead. Yeah, and and also I think what's really been useful is people's ability to exercise because they are adults, how much time they spend. I think time is a big yeah, because some of these events, like we just talked about, are all day.

SPEAKER_01 40:45

Right.

Celiac Reveal And Navigating Food Rules

SPEAKER_00 40:45

And so some people are like, maybe I just need to be there for a couple hours, or just the meal and then call it.

SPEAKER_01 40:52

Totally.

SPEAKER_00 40:52

And we haven't even talked about just I mean, we mentioned it kind of kiddingly, but just the substances too, because a lot of people are changing their relationship with that, or they're completely going sober, and that's come up in the past year, or you know, whatever in their family who they don't see very often might not know that. And so there's a lot of trepidation about do I tell them, do I say that I'm not using, or you know, those types of things.

SPEAKER_01 41:16

Right.

SPEAKER_00 41:17

Oh god, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:18

Well, and also I I work in the eating disorder world, so like Thanksgiving can be a huge trigger. Huge on so many levels, because it's like, and this hints at our how eyes is a question, but you know, it's like expected that you would eat way beyond fullness. Yes, and also like you're seeing your family maybe for the first some of your family for the first time in a while, if your body's changed at all. Some people's families are really like critical or scrutinizing of the body, or also families that are just pushy to eat. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 41:49

Oh, yeah, like you're healthy or right, like you gotta eat more, you gotta.

SPEAKER_01 41:56

Yeah, there really are a lot of triggers. I when you said the thing about like coming, bringing your attention back to like what's the day gonna look like, I find it's like the day, it tends to feel a little intense, like in my experience, not with Josh's family, like in the same way, like, and you haven't had Thanksgiving here yet.

SPEAKER_03 42:19

Right. I was about to say, I like I probably feel the inverse of you, or like with my family, I get so excited to go, and like I love my family so much, but I think it brings up a lot of stuff. Totally, it's like all the regression, like being infantilized and being not wanting to, and like pushing against it, and it's like, oh, I just want to be in the moment, and like a lot of my friends are like almost all my friends are in Michigan at this point, so it's a lot of balancing. So, like there's a part of me like I love your family, and I feel like I know them pretty well, but it's not the same, it doesn't feel as high as stakes. Like, I feel like yeah, I'm gonna go, it's gonna be light, we're gonna joke around, I'm gonna eat good food, and like I'm not gonna be as like OCD about feeling like I've connected.

SPEAKER_01 43:02

Like, yeah, well, when there's 56 people, it's a lost cause. Like, you're not gonna connect.

SPEAKER_03 43:08

No, I think it might weirdly be easier to be in the moment. Yeah, yeah. Totally, totally.

SPEAKER_00 43:13

Well, and you're just not when you're with somebody else's family, from my experience, being with Sarah's family, there's just not you there's not as much history you bring with you to that. So you're you know, when these large family gatherings, you're bringing all of that history with you, and yeah, it can be really intense. And sometimes being with your in-laws can feel like this is breezy. Yeah. You know, I mean it's still intense, but sometimes it's intense for the person whose family it right.

SPEAKER_01 43:40

Yeah, that's so true. It is like there's so much more. Yeah, and it's like I it's like hard because in some years too, it's like I would go, I would go to like three different places. I feel like that's such a kind of like child of divorce thing. Like you do end up going all over the place. Christmas a little more than um Thanksgiving, but in the week you're going back and forth to different things, and yeah, there's like a lot more to do. It's just like more volume to make sure everyone is seen and tended to. So it like ends up can feel a bit like I'm like running from one thing to another and don't get to just like let go and relax, or like definitely doesn't feel like really safe to bring up anything like heavy. It's definitely a little more light.

SPEAKER_00 44:31

I remember you when we used to do groups together, you I think you came up with a like a holiday cope ahead planning group one time. Yeah, and I remember one of the things you wanted people to think about was like, how could I care for myself? I think that kind of like stuck with me. Yeah, because it can be so intense, and how can I be intentional about you know, and care is a very general term, but what does that look like? Like caring for myself in these very intense situations or familial situations, yeah, totally.

Allergies, Vegan Guests, And Missteps

SPEAKER_01 45:05

And I really like I almost think that dovetails with what you said about the like what role could I be positioned into and how do I not embody it, how do I not do the lashing out? And like I I almost made me think about like there's obviously the roles I have of like daughter and sister, wife, um, but I'm I'm not worried about you, Josh. But um like cousin, niece, whatever. But I um so and I think my cousins would like say this. I feel like it's like a running joke all the time in different ways when I see them, but they kind of have a narrative a little bit that I'm pretentious, like about like food or about like whatever. And it usually it's all in good fun that they're like joking about. Um trying to think of some of the things my cousin Miles has said. Shout out to him. He definitely will said something about like I said to the this versus one of my more pretentious people I know. And he's like, and that's really saying something. Like it's always he's always and it's like definitely good fun. Like, I like when they rouse me about things, but it's like, you know, like even knowing like what are some of these things that might be kind of put on me. Yeah, and the wise mind often is like, I think, slowing down and asking yourself, like, do I in a true way resonate with that? And if not, it can be this light thing of like, okay, this is like a running joke, it's like an archetype, it's uh it's a way we kind of like sort of connect or at least like find familiarity and joy. But it's like I don't have to deeply take this on. Right. And then maybe if it's something more painful or a little more dug-in conditioned, like maybe I'd say go ahead and schedule a therapy session before Thanksgiving. Right. You know, make a concrete cope ahead plan. Have those time boundaries like more firm.

SPEAKER_00 47:12

Know your exit strategies, take a walk if you can.

SPEAKER_01 47:16

Yeah, stay away from the substances or bring a game.

SPEAKER_00 47:20

I know that we talked about that with Albert Bramante. I hope you're still listening. Yeah, we talked about how wise is it, thinking about board games or stuff like that. Yeah, some families just don't get into it, which I get. My family is kind of more of a game family, but yeah, those are great ways to still be social, but it might not feel as high stakes and it might be a distraction from other things going on. So bringing a deck of cards or just something to do where you're not just sitting, maybe staring. We're also a big puzzle family, so even a small like a jigsaw puzzle or something like that.

Menu Makeovers And Flavor Boosters

SPEAKER_01 47:53

I love that. Yeah, yeah, it's like awareness, intentional, yeah, with and like maybe even making a goal. Yeah. Which sounds like, I mean, it's such a fucking therapist thing to say. I'm almost like annoyed saying it. Sometimes annoying works. Yeah, because I think it does work. Like saying, like, okay, there's Thanksgiving, sure. But like, what do I want to walk away with after the weekend? What value do I want to be living out and feel vital with? So yeah, for me, it's probably connection, like humor.

SPEAKER_03 48:30

Humor. Connection to whom?

SPEAKER_01 48:33

Connection to all my relatives. Self. Connection to self, definitely, in that space. Connection to football, probably. Yeah, for you, definitely. I'm gonna be like, you know, black paint under the eyes, like ready to go. I think wait, what is the game on the day?

SPEAKER_00 48:51

Well, there's three games Packers, Packers play the Lions this year. Oh, so John! Yeah, Josh for Jish versus John. Um, so there's two teams that always play on Thanksgiving. It's oh but but they don't play each other. So the Lions will always play on Thanksgiving, no matter what. Their opponent changes.

SPEAKER_01 49:12

But because Wait, why do they get that?

SPEAKER_00 49:14

It's just the way it's been. I'm not sure the origin story there or the genesis is just always the way it's been. Okay. So they will always play the first game. The Cowboys will always play the second game.

SPEAKER_01 49:26

That makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 49:27

They're like the American team or whatever. And their opponent changes as well. And then they, of course, you know, the NFL added a third game, and that's a night game. So I think that changes who plays. I don't think there's a specific team that plays in that game every year. Who this year? Ooh, that's a good question. I don't know who plays not the Bears. I don't think the Bears play on Thanksgiving this year. Okay. No. Wow, that would be three NFC North teams if that actually happened that way. Um I can tell your eyes are crossing as I'm saying this right now. Actually, I think it might be the Ravens now are the team that always plays on Thanksgiving. So it's Green Bay playing Detroit in Detroit, and then it's the Chiefs and the Cowboys, and then it's the Bengals and the Ravens.

SPEAKER_01 50:15

The Chiefs and the Cowboys? The Bengals and the Ravens. Yeah. So really Taylor Shift's gonna be watching the Chiefs.

SPEAKER_04 50:25

Great.

SPEAKER_03 50:26

You think she'll be at the game? Probably. Doesn't she celebrate Thanksgiving? At the game, Josh, yes.

SPEAKER_01 50:33

She'll celebrate at the game. Maybe they'll do a dinner the next day.

SPEAKER_00 50:37

Yeah, when do these athletes get to celebrate? I think that's kind of part of the that's just part of the deal.

SPEAKER_01 50:44

I mean, it's like if you're in the game, you're the main car.

Sides Controversies And Leftover Strategy

SPEAKER_00 50:50

Like there's a there's a Netflix documentary called Starting Five, and um they're in their second season this year, but there's a whole episode last year where it it follows like five NBA players. Uh, I think LeBron might produce it or his production company does it. But LeBron is one of the players, and it's just like for the last 20 years, it's he's always played on Christmas. Like it's just like they're they kind of like have to work their family system, whatever it is, around that. So, yep. Does anyone get depressed about it? Probably they wipe the tears away with the money they make. So I think it's and not to minimize, sure, maybe, but I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 51:30

I won I bet a kid's.

SPEAKER_00 51:32

Would you be are you projecting, would you be depressed about it if you had to play a game that you're getting paid multi-million dollars for?

SPEAKER_01 51:38

You didn't celebrate Christmas growing up.

SPEAKER_03 51:41

Well, I'm thinking Thanksgiving in the world. Oh, oh, oh.

SPEAKER_00 51:45

But I've got to knew Kelly was there in a shiny jacket cheering for you in the press box.

SPEAKER_03 51:50

Would our kids be there too, or one kid?

SPEAKER_00 51:53

Yeah, sure. Yeah. They might get suspended.

SPEAKER_01 51:56

In a jersey? In a little jersey.

SPEAKER_00 51:58

They just do Thanksgiving on a different day. But they might not even know Thanksgiving. That might just be their Thanksgiving. That's what Thanksgiving means to that. That's what that's what it would mean to them.

SPEAKER_03 52:07

I love Thanksgiving, though.

SPEAKER_00 52:09

Dad is in a jersey. So nostalgic.

SPEAKER_01 52:12

And they probably do it the next day.

SPEAKER_03 52:15

I hope so.

SPEAKER_01 52:16

Yeah. You're worried about them.

SPEAKER_03 52:18

I'm getting a little concerned. It is concerning. Because I care more about food than sports, and that's my values.

SPEAKER_01 52:25

But isn't that funny? Like the attachment. A lot of people Thanksgiving is their favorite holiday. It's like a pretty common favorite holiday.

SPEAKER_00 52:31

Well, there's I think a lot of people don't, in my experience, don't like the pressure of the gifts. Right. So whether it be Christmas or Hanukkah or it, I it just doesn't. The gift giving can be really a lot.

SPEAKER_01 52:46

Yeah. Yeah, and I yeah. Yeah, but it's like also Thanksgiving, all the like stuff around it, you know.

SPEAKER_00 52:54

Sure, that can be stressful too. I just I think people really just look forward to being with family and eating.

SPEAKER_01 52:59

Well, no, yeah, you're right. But yeah, it's like the whole indigenous peoples of the.

SPEAKER_00 53:05

Well, we haven't even touched that, which is very problematic.

SPEAKER_01 53:08

The whole thing is because we're all like, how could you not have Thanksgiving? And then it's like I know it's built on this. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:14

Yeah, which is a conversation I was having with some of my coworkers the other day about how do you fold, can you fold some of those conversations into your Thanksgiving?

SPEAKER_01 53:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:25

Because that's tough.

SPEAKER_01 53:27

Well, you know what's crazy I'm thinking of live in this moment? Like calling it Thanksgiving, like you're giving you know native tribes thanks for like welcoming the white man.

SPEAKER_00 53:45

Which welcoming is a general.

SPEAKER_01 53:47

I mean, exactly. It's it's like, is that one of the first whitewashed like terms?

SPEAKER_00 53:51

Yeah, probably.

SPEAKER_01 53:51

You know, like of like, we're just gonna say thank you for letting us be here when like it was definitely not so human like that.

SPEAKER_00 53:58

A blanket with smallpox. Right, right. So we can completely almost eradicate. Like, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 54:04

Yeah, it's like it makes me think it's like one of the first, like, let's pretend this was well, it was a yeah, I mean, and let's pretend it was amicable, right?

SPEAKER_00 54:16

Yeah, like we were sitting down at a table together, right? This took a turn here.

SPEAKER_01 54:21

I know it's something that it's worth considering.

SPEAKER_00 54:24

We have to mention it, and and I think it is how do we have these conversations, especially me as a parent moving forward, where it's honoring the tradition of it and also the the history of it, and how can we be aware of that and and hold that as well? That sure we can celebrate and at the same time hold some of the um maybe misconceptions or stories that have been told about what it means.

How Wise Is Overeating On Thanksgiving

SPEAKER_01 54:50

Yeah. I've seen so many things online where they like make fun of those like native land acknowledgments. Have you seen that? Like, have you ever been somewhere where they're like, I want to acknowledge like we're standing on that we're standing on, yeah. Which, like, when I first heard that, I was like, screw it. I love that they're saying this. Yeah, like how do you make fun of that? Well, or why would you make fun of it? And this is very the internet making fun of everything, that it's like such it's so laughably inept at any form of correcting. Oh, because it's just like an overcorrection with not really doing anything. But just name it and I was like, they're like, oh yeah, everything's cool here. There's a native land acknowledgement. And I'm like, oh, so that I was like, okay, I could totally see that.

SPEAKER_03 55:33

Yeah. Um it's like purging of the guilt, like, oh, I named it, so now I can like it.

SPEAKER_00 55:39

Yeah, as long as you name it, as long as you name it and then name it. Right. Then you're naming it, and then you don't have to do anything.

SPEAKER_01 55:48

A doing. Maybe it is something to think about, like in the future, like having like some Thanksgiving celebration where you like make an effort to to really like reach out to like the native community, like nearby, right, you know, donate or volunteer or something.

SPEAKER_00 56:08

Yeah. I know I took the boys last year. This wasn't in regards to native peoples, the, but I did take them to volunteer the day before. Yeah, uh, or two days before Thanksgiving. Um, we went uh to where was it, Cradles and Crayons, which was like a clothing. We were sorting clothing and things like that. And so I took the boys there for a couple hours and we did that together.

SPEAKER_01 56:34

That's great.

SPEAKER_00 56:34

Um, which I didn't sign up for it this year, but that was a good reminder that I should sign up for that with them. Yeah, that's great. To donate time, but yeah, that acknowledgement without the action.

SPEAKER_01 56:45

Yeah, that is a good thing to think of. Yeah. I felt I it's like I like the native land acknowledgements were like in my psyche, and I was like, this is great. I'm glad we're doing this. And then I saw this like criticism of it online, and I'm like, I also believe this. Like it's also kind of a where do I go now?

SPEAKER_00 57:02

It's a valid criticism of what else are you doing, which maybe some of those people that have acknowledged have done stuff. We don't know that whole story either, but wow, interesting. Yeah, I didn't think there's gonna be this much to talk about with things. There's so much to talk about, exploded.

SPEAKER_01 57:20

Yeah, it really is. And wow, yeah. I used to have a uh professor in college who would shout out to Jane McCourt, who is actually at our wedding. Um, she's a like a family friend at the same time. And um, I didn't even get to talk to her at our wedding, which is devastating. But she I I went to a family therapy class with her in grad school, and she talked about that concept of the undifferentiated family ego mass. I forget that's a wordy term.

SPEAKER_00 57:49

What does that mean? I'm trying to remember which undifferentiated family ego mass?

SPEAKER_01 57:55

Well, she would she wrote it on the board and she'd circle it. She goes, the undifferentiated family ego mass, she goes, or as I like to call it, Thanksgiving. Oh, which always made me laugh. Um undifferentiated. It's like I think it's like the concept is let's see.

SPEAKER_03 58:11

Undifferentiated. It's like the collective unconscious, but for a family.

SPEAKER_01 58:16

Okay, yes. All right, oh, it's Murray Bowen.

SPEAKER_03 58:20

Oh, it's Bowen theory.

SPEAKER_01 58:21

Yes. So it describes families with low emotional boundaries, remembers are emotionally fused and act as a single unit. They act as like a which like she was more normalizing, like when you get in these situations and you're with your family of origin again. It's pretty natural to kind of like function as this like a system, right?

SPEAKER_00 58:41

So are you so if you like an anxious family, that everybody's gonna feel that it's gonna be palpable. The system is anxious, totally.

SPEAKER_01 58:50

It's like they're not the members are not differentiated, and it's even hard to maintain your differentiation from your siblings and your parents when you're in that enclosed space. In even like a familiar, traditional year after year environment like Thanksgiving, it's easy to just like go back to the way you functioned then in those early times. And and it it certainly is for me, you know, like I can catch myself talking in a way that like I would never in my like outside adult relationships talk. Yeah. And even being aware of that, I think is incredibly powerful.

SPEAKER_00 59:31

But that's kind of fun sometimes. Right now, I'm thinking about like me and my brother probably make the same jokes every single year, and yeah, they're never not funny. Right. It's like because we grew up together making the same jokes, yeah. But we kind of revert back to that mass of these are some of the same jokes that we make. Yeah. So it makes me laugh though. Yeah. But it's something to think about that that, yeah, the system.

SPEAKER_01 59:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:55

And how the system's functioning.

Comfort Clothes, Acceptance, And Wrap-Up

SPEAKER_01 59:56

You get pulled back into it. And yeah. Yeah, how do you stay differentiated? That's like I mean like be connected to self. Yeah, it's like how do you my hair sticking together though? I thought I got a shadow of my hair sticking out. Yeah, I don't think it's a pillow of everyone. Um it's not. What was I gonna say? Like how do you emotionally connect and not fuse? Right. And I'm not worried about fusing with my cousins, but it's like siblings, parents. Definitely, you know. Yeah, like one unit. One unit.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:33

That's like you know, we've talked about all this, and the other thing that I didn't, it just occurred to me that's gonna be a first for me this year is my celiac diagnosis.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:44

Yeah, we haven't really introduced Sir Celiac on the pot. Sir celiac.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:50

This is gonna be my first Thanksgiving, having to try to be gluten-free.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:54

Wow. So I mean, tell us everything. What are what are your thoughts? I have nothing.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:59

No, I don't, I mean, yeah, that stuffing, protein. Um I'll be able to eat protein. You're gonna protein load protein match. Potatoes.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:09

Match potatoes, right.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:12

Um salads. Depending if they put croutons in there. Well, right. I mean, certainly I'll be on the lookout for that. But yeah, so huge reveal. So that in within the past year, I'm I'm not symptomatic at all, but I was by accident almost diagnosed with celiac. So I've been gluten-free for since the beginning of September. So going on. Wow, I didn't realize it was that long. Two months now. Yeah. So you know, figuring it out. Figuring it out for sure. So I go back in December for some more blood work to see if like the numbers go down. So I mean, I think the silver lining in all of this is because I know people have horrendous symptoms, cross-contamination issues, and things like that. I have been lucky enough to live basically my whole life without any symptoms. And this was just kind of something that is now on my radar and I need to watch out for. And even though I wasn't having symptoms, doesn't mean it wasn't doing possible damage. So I'm thankful that I can, you know, hopefully make some of these dietary changes. But Thanksgiving's gonna be tough for sure, because that is an eating holiday. Oh, yeah.

Plugs, Resources, And Happy Thanksgiving

SPEAKER_01 1:02:24

Wait, remind me, and we can cut this if you need. What was the symptom that brought you to discover things?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:30

So it was more of heartburn that I was having. And so I went to a GI person because I had, when I was a kid, I had a small hiatal hernia where the stomach kind of comes into the esophagus. Yeah. And so I didn't know if it was due to that, like this increase, or just if you know there was something else going on. So I just went to the GI doctor to get that checked out. And so they wanted to do a blood panel, and so they did like tons of blood work on me. I mean, they were taking vials upon vials. I was like, Are we gonna stop with this? Like I need to walk home. I need some blood. I need to like walk home after that. I need some blood. So when the blood work came back, that's when she was kind of like, Did you know about this? Like, and uh, you know, because it came up the marker for celiac. And I was like, no. And then we kind of started going through the laundry list of like all the symptoms, and I don't have any. And so she was like, Well, we need to do the endoscopy because that'll confirm it, and that with a biopsy. So we did that, and then that confirmed it.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:27

Oh my God.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:29

And she said, you know, it's not my GI doctor said, like, there's like a quarter of the population that walks around that's undiagnosed and doesn't know it. And so she was like, it's not that uncommon for somebody to be in your position that we're checking something else out, and we end up with this diagnosis. I mean, the thing I did say to her, would I end up being in your office whatever, 10 years from now? Would I eventually and she was like, probably, like if I had to guess, at some point you would probably start to develop symptoms that would bring you in. So yeah, it it's you know, pizza, my heart goes out to you. It's been bad. Even bread.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:08

I mean, pizza is enough to make a person cry. Cry. Yeah, because pasta, the gluten-free pasta, I think there is some very good gluten-free pasta.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:16

Yeah, the pasta can, you know, I made a um, I think the best type of pasta is actually the gluten-free lasagna noodles because you can just bake it and it actually because there's so much other stuff with a lasagna that's in there that it's like, oh, this is almost like eating a regular lasagna. The noodles have been tough but doable, but yeah, the the pizza of it all is real tough. That's a hard one right there.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:45

Wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:47

So Thanksgiving is gonna be interesting for me. I'll have to report back.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:52

Yeah, you'll have turgule of mashed potatoes, no stuffing salad.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:57

Yeah, dessert-wise is gonna be tough. Won't be able to have the pies with the crust. Could I have ice cream? Absolutely. And I found a grape brownie mix that's amazing. It's really, really good. King Arthur.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:09

Oh, I think I've had that, and it is cooked.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:12

Super good. I actually like it more than other brownie mix, like other ones that I've had, namely.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:17

Is it also dairy free?

unknown 1:05:18

No.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:19

Yeah. Well, no, I should not say that because there is butter in it. Yeah. Okay. But it's so good.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:28

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:28

Amazing. Oh, were you thinking of your vegan family?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:33

Well, yes, that will be a whole thing for Wednesday. I don't know what they're gonna eat.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:40

Yeah, it was good. It's really good. So, anyway, so that's another thing, another hurdle. Wow, interesting. The other day it was very sweet. My youngest son, Shane, was like looking at me because there's like they're all eating dinner and I'm having my own dinner. And he's like, I'm sorry, dad. And I was like, I just even saying that, I appreciate it that you're just recognizing things are a little bit different. I was like, it's totally fine. And at least I got to live 43 years of eating whatever I wanted. Right, yeah. Right. So, oh man. That was a long tangent.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:13

No, I mean, it's interesting. I it's something that comes up, like food allergies and family holidays, and like some families like gluten, what? You know, like yeah, you're vegan, but you eat turkey, right? You know, it's like right. There could be a lot with that, and like figuring out what to eat. Or I think there can even be family that's like, yeah, this is vegan, and then they like start listing to someone else the ingredients. You're like, wait a second, I don't eat butter.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:40

That's not vegan at all.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:41

Like, butter's vegan, you know, it's like they just don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:45

They don't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:46

I don't eat turkey.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:49

I don't eat birds.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:51

Allison Roman was like making a turkey and she was like bragging about, like, she's like, it's gluten-free, it's this, or whatever. And then she's like, This turkey is vegan. And she was like, I'm kidding.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:03

Don't you remember when uh Harris and Waltz were running together? Um, you know, oh Harris, yes, yeah, and Waltz had a video with his like daughter, and they were at the state fair or something like that. And he was like, Yeah, we're at the state fair, this and that, we're eating all this great food. And I forget exactly how it went down, but she but he was like, Yeah, and she's gonna love this uh whatever, bratwurst or whatever. And she's she's like, Dad, I'm a vegetarian. And he's like, It's turkey, it's fine. And he like added it to her as if, like, that's vegetarian because it's turkey.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:39

Wait, was he joking?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:40

Uh I'm pretty sure he was, but just the way it went down, yeah. It's turkey, it's fine. He'll be fine. Oh my god. Is that why they lost the election? It's not red beans. I think there were many other reasons, but um among many, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:54

Turkey faux pas.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:56

Yeah, faux pas. That's so funny. It's turkey sausage.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:59

You're fine.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:59

Yeah, you're fine. Turkey's fine, and and funny enough, it's like if we're talking about like animal welfare, I think chicken and turkeys are not treated well. Maybe even worse than beef. I know. Oh god. Well, then yeah, there's all that. Yeah, it's complicated. There's a lot with the holidays. But yeah, we're we're curious kind of your thoughts on the holiday, your strategies.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:25

I want people to tell us about their yeah, what's worked, what hasn't.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:30

Yeah. Yeah, and you can you can reach out to us in the ways that we'll plug later, but also like on my TikTok, wise mind h pod. You can leave me a comment. Yeah, anything about Thanksgiving we're interested. Or leave a recipe. Or leave a recipe.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:49

Something that's worked out that's like set it and forget it, that would make it easier for everybody.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:53

Yeah. Well, okay, can I just say on that note, the Thanksgiving I just watched Andy Barragani make on New York Times Cooking YouTube? He did a pomegranate, like glazed turkey looked very good. This was the thing that really blew me away, and I can't stop thinking about it. Brussels sprouts, which like I say that and you're like, yawn. We've been doing that for so long. Brussels sprouts with leeks cooked in cream.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:23

I love leeks.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:25

Love leeks. Yeah, they go so well with cream and like pepper. Yep. And then Brussels, it's like we need a new way to interpret Brussels. Like, it's not 2013. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:38

You know, like great Brussels year, but we're over.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:40

It's like we need a new way.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:43

And I was like, I can't, I couldn't stop talking about it to Josh. Why?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:46

Because what is everybody still doing with the Brussels sprouts? They're getting pancetta in the pan.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:50

Panchetta. Oh my god, you said it. You nailed it. Panchetta. It's like, oh, salt to get them nice and brown. Balsamic. Maybe a little honey. Balsamic, yeah. Balsamic flash briad. Brussels sprouts with balsamic. It makes my skin crawl at the moment. Oh so good. Like, no, so good. Or like pomegranate seeds I could see on Thanksgiving. Like, it's fine. Like, it's fine. It's 2013. Like, we need to update this. Update it. So it's cream and leaks. Cream leeks Brussels amazing. No stuffing he did. He did rice because he is um Persian. He grew up Persian. So we did a little bit of like Persian infusion on stuff. This like roasted squash it with chili crisp. Love chili crisp.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:35

I can put that on anything, really.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:37

Totally. And I think it would be great on a Thanksgiving menu because the food, you know, it runs a little bland and buttery, not like sharp and punchy.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:45

It's definitely bland, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:46

So it's like you really do got to add, I think, in your Thanksgiving. I mean, if we're talking about wise mine, I add pepper to everything, I'd say. Add it to everything, pepper it up, salt it up. The food could be quite bland if you don't.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:00

It definitely bland. And I would even maybe dip your toe in bringing up. Does anybody really like turkey here at your family? If you really want to cause a scene. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:10

Take your family's turkey and throw it in the trash. Just throw it across the room.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:14

Because some who knows? Maybe some people be like, you know what? Yeah, we've been doing this turkey thing for too long. I knew I grew up with some Italian families that lasagna was a huge dish at Thanksgiving. Which if I was faced with a lasagna and a turkey, I would probably go with the lasagna.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:32

I mean, absolutely. Yeah. I love a lasagna.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:36

Maybe that's what made the turkey more palatable. Was like, oh, at least we have this option.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:41

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:42

Yeah. Write us. Let us know. Let us do two proteins. Maybe some people do another protein.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:48

Yeah. Do you do a mashed potato, smashed potato? Do multiple kinds. Do you do multiple kinds? Baked. Baked potato. Sweet potatoes.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:00

Sweet potatoes. Ooh, sweet. We just like that dish with the mushrooms, not the mushrooms, the marshmallows on it.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:06

Oh, so yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:08

I don't like that. I mean, never like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:10

Ours actually, funny enough, is a very, very, very, very sweet. One at my dad's Thanksgiving or my dad's cousin's. Very, very sweet, but there aren't actually marshmallows in it. Okay. It's just like tons of brown sugar and paccaronas.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:24

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:24

There's so much sugar in these sweet potatoes. It literally makes my teeth hurt.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:28

Yeah. I like sweet potato without all of that stuff.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:31

A hundred percent.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:32

It's like that's not necessary. We could we could be holding it. What about the uh green bean casserole?

SPEAKER_01 1:12:38

Disgusting to me. Disgusting. I mean, I know it's tradition, but it's like it's well what about just casseroles? I I don't mind a casserole. I almost like them in this like kind of ironic way. Like it's like tuna fish? A tuna casserole done like hipster. Yeah, I would like to.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:00

I don't know what that is, but sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:01

You know, like gourmet. Like, okay, we're gonna do it right.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:05

We're gonna do it right. You know, the tonado with leeks and cream. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:12

I mean leeks and cream and noodles and like a really high quality tuna, you know, from like the coast of Spain. Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:21

Which is just so funny because that's not what that is. It's like a peasant dish. The whole point is make it not affordable for those peasants.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:28

I know what I like. I like when you turn it on its ear. It's great. It's great. What about peas? Peas? I do like peas.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:36

Yeah, so do I.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:36

But they have they would have to be kind of buttery and so that's it's pea and peppery.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:40

Okay, here we go. Here's a hot take. Who write us in about this? Do you like homemade cranberry sauce or do you like the gelatinous can slice it in the with the ring of the can? I love the can.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:52

I kind of like it too. I mean, you never get anything like that. I like it. Oh, and Andy Bergani, he made a homemade cranberry sauce and at the very last second put tahini in it.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:02

Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:03

So it's like so acidic, so sweet, and then you put this fat to balance it out in there.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:09

Do you what do you think, Josh? Ocean spray cranberry sauce from the can looks like a log, slice it up. I've never been allowed.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:17

You you guys don't need it.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:18

I think my uncle Andy makes the cranberry sauce. Oh, yeah, Josh.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:22

And it's very good cooking, Uncle.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:24

It's very pretentious, but good.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:26

Yeah, he's a he's a great cook.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:28

My kids will ask for the cranberry sauce in the can when it's not Thanksgiving. We'll just have that sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:34

With like chicken?

SPEAKER_00 1:14:35

Yeah. With dinner, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:37

Sounds kind of fun.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:38

It's I also like the slices because you could put it on a sandwich. Yeah. I mean, granted, my bread game is pretty pissed poor now because I'm celiac, but you could put it on like sourdough?

SPEAKER_01 1:14:49

Or no? Did they say no?

SPEAKER_00 1:14:51

It depends on the the brand of it, but you can put the turkey with uh you can almost make the Thanksgiving meal on the sandwich. Because the turkey with the cranberry sauce in one bite is good.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:02

Oh my god, I think uh Thanksgiving leftovers might be even better than first overs.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:07

Definitely, I agree with that.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:08

Yeah, like like turkey stuffing, potato, cranberry on one end, like mayo on the other. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:17

Mayo? Why not? I just did my thing where I questioned you.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:21

Yeah, you did. It's a sandwich.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:25

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:26

You wouldn't put mayo on that?

SPEAKER_03 1:15:28

Why not? On a sandwich?

SPEAKER_01 1:15:29

You would put gravy and then also cranberry.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:31

No, I I would put it on a sandwich. I was picturing it like on one end of my plate.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:35

No, no.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:36

This is all still a sandwich.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:37

This is your leftovers on the sourdough bread. On the sourdough, yeah. Or I mean like a roll.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:43

Or any leftover rolls you have.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:45

Yeah, brioche.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:46

Yeah. Holland. I mean, I love, I love, I love mayo. Totally. Oh, yeah. I like the idea of cranberry sauce more than I actually like cranberry sauce. Yeah. It's such a fun color.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:58

I find at my family's Thanksgiving, it's like regular potatoes, the sweet potatoes, a cranberry, the turkey. It's too sweet. It needs to be balanced. What is too sweet? Like the plate that I end up with.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:11

Okay. Hence the mayo. Yeah. Add some tartness. I think it's like I need to think about how to balance it. Maybe like an apple, like some sliced apples. No, because that's sweet too. Tart.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:25

It's also tart.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:26

Well it's got some mustard in the house. I think you need to season your own plate. Yeah. Bring you know, bring your own seasoning. No.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:34

Just take it out of your pocket. I mean, talk about pretentious. I'm not beating those charges. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:41

And just season. This is a little under-seasoned.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:46

Just like performatively.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:47

If everyone's doing it, that's kind of fun though.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:49

Yeah. I'm like standing over it sprinkling salt from the ceiling. Salt. Yeah. Finishing salt. Bring your finishing salt. Totally. You can get those little to-go like maldans. Oh, yeah. They're so cute. Oh yeah. Yeah. But yeah, so I mean, that's our Thanksgiving content. But we also have a how wise is it related. Turkey Day. Yeah, Turkey Day. So we'll move into our How Wise Is It. How Wise Is It 2. Gorge yourself on Thanksgiving. Kind of like really go past. Really go for it. Really go for it. Okay, what do you think?

SPEAKER_00 1:17:25

Uh it's so wise in the short term and so unwise for me in the long term. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:35

Yeah, tell us why.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:36

Well, the discomfort, and by long term, I mean almost immediately after.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:42

The split second you're eating.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:44

Split second you're done eating. Well, because I feel like sometimes then I'll go way too much into the dinner food and then I won't save enough room for the dessert, which that's a mistake.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:54

God, I always do that.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:56

There's also, depending on the amount of people, I gotta, you know, be careful about my bathroom strategy. Right. I'm not trying to get gross, but I that's something to consider. So right. Yeah. Because people are using it left and right, people are drinking, people are peeing, things and that. You don't know who's gonna be in there.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:16

So if you're not at your house.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:19

If you're not at your house, you got your away game. Yeah. How is your away game? What did your morning look like? Was your cough? Was your coffee doing it for you? We don't know. These are all things that are gonna play into this, Kelly. We laugh so hard.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:36

This is a conversation Josh and I would have on a regular basis.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:40

This is giving me ideas. This is why. How wise is it? Sure, it could be wise, depending on how my morning looks. Yeah. But also the clothing I wear. Yeah, because if you're at home, you can change, you can quickly change into something that I'm wearing right now. Right. Because I am at home and I live under your bed. Yeah, you live here and under your bed.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:00

So it's I can quickly change into something that I'm wearing right now.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:03

If you've if you've even put any effort in, I'm already regretting the belt I wore. Yeah. It's already like, why did I do it? Totally, totally.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:11

So yes, how many times the drive home my pants are like so uncomfortable? It's so uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:18

It's terrible. So I think it's wise to if I can re to like reel it in and say, I'm really just gonna enjoy the food and try to enjoy every uh portion, basically meaning like, could I save some room for dessert? I think it's it's it can be kind of wise to do it. Yeah, but there's a lot of things that play into it, I think.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:43

Right. Well, yeah, and it's like I find because I will think I kind of went off there, but I mean, no, I love it because I I think about this too. Like, I sometimes suffer over and like could this be a disordered mindset? Absolutely. It's like what to eat during the day before. Because some people, you know, like as an eating disorder therapist, like I think I know my wise mindset is like eat intuitively, you know, eat when you're hungry in the morning of Thanksgiving, have whatever you're wanting, some version of what you're actually wanting. But you know, like sometimes my mind gets into, well, if it's gonna be an unusual day and I know I'm eating more later, like maybe I'll eat a little lighter. And then you can, of course, like in any moment of restricting, you can get a little in your head. And then it ends up just leading you to being really hungry before you go and then not having that attunement to yourself later. So it's like it is a tricky because it's normalized to overeat. It is normalized. And you know, if you really want to be in the tradition, in the mix, connect, food is a big part of that, and like enjoying it with abandon is a big part of it. So it's a tricky thing. I think my plan is like to well, I guess like when we get up, we'll have something.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:11

Yeah, a little turkey. Maybe some coffee. Some pre-turkey.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:16

Turkey starter.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:18

We'll vegan.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:20

We'll wake up, we'll have coffee for sure.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:24

And that's it.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:25

No, I see, like, I bet there's people that do that. Like, literally restrict completely.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:30

Yeah, I mean, I don't find that I I that has never served me because I feel like either I'm too hungry and then I eat too much of the appetizers before because I'm so hungry. Or don't they say your stomach shrinks if you like restrict? Yes. So then you're not even uh I feel like I have to eat at least something in the morning to like stay a little bit like I think full meal.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:55

I I'm thinking if you're hungry enough for it. For sure. Like we'll maybe have a full meal.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:01

Eggs and bacon.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:04

Full English breakfast.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:05

Full English.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:07

Full English.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:08

Yeah. We'll have a Native American themed breakfast.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:11

What is a full English? It's got beans.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:13

Full English breakfast is um eggs, usually like two fried eggs, like black pudding. Bangers. Bangers, bacon, refried, or not refried, like beans. Beans. Yeah. Tomato? Toast and that like really burnt tomato.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:35

Let's see. Did I did we get it all, Josh? Josh and I think Josh and I had it a bunch of things.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:39

I think what's unwise is for me, I think, with the gluttonous question as you're looking that up, is to not remember that you're probably gonna have leftovers.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:50

So I think if I'm really like if I pull the pin and I'm really going for it, I think I need to remember. I could probably have some of this tomorrow.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:00

Totally. I actually that's really a great idea to remind yourself of. Like, like is that the last thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:06

Right, exactly. Do I have to do it all now and just like right have somebody massage my throat because it's just in the lay on my side, just in lay on my side, help the digestion. Totally. Check on me in 15 minutes.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:21

But then it's like if you picture a bunch of people at a party, like laying on their side, it's like there is something fun about that too. Hilarious. Yeah, it's like funny or like drunk and laying on your side. Yeah, as long as there's nothing put on. But not talking about how uncomfortable they are. Right, right. Yeah, it is so fun. Yeah. Oh my god. It's like, and also, like, is it wise to like let go a little bit and realize like I might be leaving a little stuffed? And maybe that's okay too. That's okay too. It's part of it. It's like acceptance in all the ways. And I really do think eat a meal before. Eat fairly normally.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:59

There's something too, if you are the type who, or if your situation is you travel and then you come back home. There's something about changing into your comfy clothes when you get home.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:10

Totally.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:11

Even when you've gone off the deep end of the gluttonous route.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:15

To just be like, uh, now I'm at home. I get to. Yeah. It just feels good.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:20

I mean, that's like some like so much of the fun of like even us like dressing up and going to a nice restaurant is like obviously that. But then when you come home and you're like, I get cold.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:32

You get to watch whatever you want, you get to read, you get to just read it all. That's the best.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:37

Yeah. Or like maybe you've survived like the relative you were nervous about seeing you didn't want to let them.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:45

It wasn't as bad as you thought.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:46

You did it. Yeah. You did it. You got through. You survived the undifferentiated family ego mass. And you survived Turkey.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:58

Remember that term.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:59

Yeah. And all of it. It'll be quizzed on it in the subsequent podcast episodes.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:06

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:07

Yes. Okay. Well, that is our episode. Thank you so much for joining us. And for once, this episode will come out in a timely way the Monday before Thanksgiving. Perfect. So it's right on theme. Finally. So exciting. We've gotten it together. Ooh. Spooky Thanksgiving.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:25

I was trying to make a turkey noise. I was like, what's that?

SPEAKER_01 1:25:29

Yeah, what's a turkey noise? Gobble gobble.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:32

Oh, that's good, John. That's a good noise.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:35

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:36

That should be our intro music. Yeah. For this week at least. We could harmonize.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:41

Yeah. Harmonize. I love it. So, okay, if you want to reach me, you can find me at kkpsychotherapy.com. And as I mentioned, I'm on TikTok at wise mindhpod. We're on TikTok. Yes. So yeah, like check us out there.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:57

Why did I say yes like I am? Well, you're going to be as of tonight.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:01

I'm going to be. So you are.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:03

Doing it.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:03

And John, where can we find you?

SPEAKER_00 1:26:05

Uh email me butzbutz. Jonathan at gmail.com. I do want to give a plug to a book I just finished, which was incredible. I'm a little late to the game on this one. I think it won the Booker Prize in 2020. It's called Shuggy Bane. Um and it's a great book. It has to do with um a family, specifically a mother and son who grew up uh poor in Glasgow. And um it has to do with addiction. It's I I think of it as kind of a love story between a mother and a son, um, but her struggle uh with addiction. So check it out, Shuggy Bane.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:43

Um Shuggy Bane, I love it.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:45

Yes, his name is Hugh Bain. The character's name is Hugh Bain, the child, but uh he goes by Shuggy. Shuggy, I love it. Um and it's it is just yeah, it was really, really impactful and and made you feel all the feels pretty sad, but that's my shout out, yeah or my plug for a good read.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:06

I love it. What and Josh?

SPEAKER_03 1:27:09

JoshBayerfilms.com, Bayer like the aspirin, and I feel like I try to say this differently every time, but really, truthfully, it's just reach out to me and I'll edit stuff. I'll edit anything you have. Love it, and including this podcast or your podcast. But also, but also you can reach out to me about the podcast because that's really what we're talking about here.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:31

I mean, hey, yeah, anything text us, email us, reach out.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:36

Thanks, everyone. We'll see you next week.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:39

We'll see you next week. Thanks. Blanket forts. Thank you, blanket forts.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:42

Yeah, and happy Thanksgiving.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:44

Happy Thanksgiving, everybody. Bye.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:50

The Wiseman Happy Hour podcast is for entertainment purposes only, not to be treated as medical advice. If you are struggling with your mental health, please seek medical attention or counseling.