The Wise Mind Happy Hour
Two therapists musing about the idea of an inner wise mind and how to connect with this psychic space in different contexts.
The Wise Mind Happy Hour
I Fired My Therapist and Hired a Psychic
In this scintillating ep, Kelly and Jon unpack Shanetta McDonald's rousing article "I Fired My Therapist and Hired a Psychic."
- music by blanket forts -
Well, welcome to the Wise Mind Happy Hour. I'm John.
SPEAKER_03:I'm Kelly. Welcome.
SPEAKER_02:Welcome. We're your therapists or your therapist friends.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, your recreational therapist.
SPEAKER_02:Recreational therapist. That's nice. We clue you into everything. Not everything, but pop culture. Yeah. Topics in food. Psychology.
SPEAKER_03:And psychology.
SPEAKER_02:Wise mind, how to access it, maybe. What is wise in your life?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:We're really a jack and jill of all trades, masters.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Totally. Which is fine.
SPEAKER_04:And really, in some ways, we're raising questions you could bring to your own therapist. That's true. Because this is an educational and entertainment podcast only. But yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Is that someone's spindrift?
SPEAKER_02:That is mine.
SPEAKER_01:Do you want it?
SPEAKER_02:No, I'm good.
SPEAKER_01:Did you hate it? I like it.
SPEAKER_02:But I don't need it right now.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. Sorry. Continue.
SPEAKER_02:Continue.
SPEAKER_04:Okay, well, let's do a little checking in. Tell us what's new.
SPEAKER_02:Well, the most recent news is Spotify raps.
SPEAKER_04:Oh my god, yes.
SPEAKER_02:Which I don't know. Are you into it?
SPEAKER_04:I'm into it. I had forgotten that it was coming out. Because to me, I don't know. It's like the end of the year does, as we talked about this last time, really creep up on the road. I don't say it. I can't bring it up. It's like I can't believe it's Thanksgiving. It's already Christmas. Yeah. But really, like when I saw some people putting it out there on social media, I was like, oh wow, it's Spotify rap time already.
SPEAKER_02:It did feel a little early this year for some reason.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Is it always this early?
SPEAKER_04:I guess because it was just Thanksgiving, but I think it is this early.
SPEAKER_02:Did they always do the age thing? For people, okay, that's new. So for people that haven't opened it, it gives you like what, given your listening taste, what your Spotify age is. Yeah. And so, I mean, huge reveal, I'm 67 years old.
SPEAKER_03:That's amazing. I like fell out of my chair. When you said that 67.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. You're pushing 70. I'm basically about to retire.
SPEAKER_04:And we were, we were kind of guessing that Steely Dan is largely the culprit.
SPEAKER_02:It's definitely one of the huge culprits. But also a lot of, I think one of my genres that was in my top five, I'd have to go back and look was funk. So I like a lot of funk music.
SPEAKER_04:The meters.
SPEAKER_02:Meters, love the meters. Um, but also like a lot of Motown, yeah, uh, Stevie Wonder, things like that. So I guarantee that really swayed the 67 number. But also the Huey Lewis in the news that I love. I love Huey Lewis. Tears for Fears. So good. A lot of 80s bangers in there, which is good. But you were what, 12?
SPEAKER_04:I was 26. 26? 10 years younger than I am. Wow. I am 36. And mine said 26, which was funny to me until we heard what Josh's.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, Josh, our producer. 16. 16. Wow. Are we gonna have your sweet 16 party?
SPEAKER_01:Now we gotta. We could do Halloween or Halloween. Yeah, we could do Hanukkah Hanukkah slash my sweet 16. Sweet 16. We could do sweet 16 candles. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:I mean, the fact that you're 16. You're I mean, the culprit for you is you're just every new band you're like new. Clicking into your listening to their whole album. You're obsessed with knowing all the music. Yeah. Which I guess that makes you 16.
SPEAKER_01:Sure. I I guess. I mean, you know, they have they have a computer deciding this. It's not a they don't they haven't met me in person. I've got a little bit of a lot of people.
SPEAKER_04:You're also listening to Steely Dan. You love Steely Dan.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, but exactly. I think I listen to so much music they don't really know how to clock me. And I like 16. But I mean I think I'm 16 more than 67.
SPEAKER_04:I mean, crazy. But that's why we get along so you guys also have so much crossover in your music taste.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Well, my uncle was 80. So if that makes anybody, I mean, how do you get to be 80?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, you gotta be listening to like Beethoven. Right, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Straight Bach. Yeah, what what are you? Yeah. Like what a minstrel, like medieval.
SPEAKER_04:Or like, I don't know, like I'm thinking like Chuck Barry. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Or like Glenn Miller.
SPEAKER_04:Right, right.
SPEAKER_02:Chuby Checker. There you go.
SPEAKER_04:Mine, I think, got confused by like Taylor Swift and then all the new stuff I listened to with Josh. Right. And then like Father John Misty, and then some probably like Bob Dylan in there, like Peter Gabriel, like all these different all over the place. I guess it just landed at 26.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I wonder how the algorithm works. But it was a funny thing to see.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Because I really didn't know where it would put me.
SPEAKER_04:Totally. I didn't know where it would put me either.
SPEAKER_02:Like I didn't even have a guess.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_02:I thought mine would be just a little bit younger for the sheer fact that not because of me, but for the sheer fact that my kids sometimes will ask me to play music. So I figured because I'm playing music for them, that that would just skew me a little, maybe, you know, less AARP and more. I don't know, 40 or something. I don't know.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, like 42.
SPEAKER_02:I guess not. I guess I listen to way more music than what they can possibly which makes sense because I listened to it in the car and yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, totally.
SPEAKER_02:Anyway.
SPEAKER_04:Um, well, speaking of kids' music, we got into the K-pop demon hunters. K-pop demon hunters for the first time because what's your favorite song? I like how it's done. I like Golden. I had Golden stuck in my head for two straight days.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Well, you're lucky most people like me have it stuck in your head for years.
SPEAKER_04:Oh my god. It is pretty catchy.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, they're catchy songs. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And I like the vibe of it. What do you think, Josh?
SPEAKER_01:Big, great, big fan.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, it's fun. Like, it's definitely better than like Moana.
SPEAKER_01:It's better than Materialists.
SPEAKER_04:Well, sure. Like adult films.
SPEAKER_01:It's better than it's better than Ferrari.
SPEAKER_04:Not adult films. Ferrari was one of the worst movies.
SPEAKER_02:No Ferrari. No, but I've debated about watching it because isn't it Michael Mann? So guy.
SPEAKER_04:And Adam Driver. I mean, I love it. Michael Mann's the director, right?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, he's the yeah, and I usually can appreciate his films, but I mean I remember thinking like I do really like Heat. Yes. Used to be one of my favorite films. I don't think it is anymore, but um I love the scope of it. Yeah, for sure. It's long. I mean, maybe you'd like it.
SPEAKER_04:I I to me there was no point to it.
SPEAKER_02:No point to Ferrari. Is doesn't it only take place over at the course of like a month or like a couple months or something?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Not that that, I mean there's one crazy like crash scene that was like kind of cool. No good. But that's like, you know, 10 seconds of the movie.
SPEAKER_02:Is um Penelope Cruz is good in it. Who's his wife?
SPEAKER_04:She is, yeah. Who is his wife that he just constantly cheats on is Penelope Cruz.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, Penelope Cruz.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. And I love Adam Driver.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I love Penelope Cruz. She's gorgeous.
SPEAKER_04:She is incredible.
SPEAKER_02:Volver is an amazing movie.
SPEAKER_04:We were just saying movie we saw, she should have been in it. Well, I mean, anyway. Entrapment. Have you seen Entrapment?
SPEAKER_02:Like, wait, who's in that one?
SPEAKER_04:Catherine Zita J.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, I've seen that. Yeah. With Sean Connery. Yes.
SPEAKER_04:That movie.
SPEAKER_02:Saw that a long time ago.
SPEAKER_04:It's like the big thing of it was like she slips down around the lasers.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I remember that.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, that was kind of the whole tag of the movie.
SPEAKER_03:And she does it like 10 times.
SPEAKER_01:It's that lasers movie.
SPEAKER_04:That lasers movie. But we were both like, this should have been a Penelope Cruise for sure. She would have flown off the screen in a way that like Catherine Zita Jones was like playing to the back of the house.
SPEAKER_02:Does she even act anymore? I don't think so.
SPEAKER_04:She's a little rough.
SPEAKER_02:She really had like a long moment. Yeah. Like she's very popular. Yeah. And who she's married to? Michael Douglas.
SPEAKER_03:Her favorite. Right? Michael Douglas. Michael Douglas. No wonder she's playing to the back of the house. Yeah, Michael Douglas. It's a house full of back of the house actors.
SPEAKER_01:It's a house full of Michael Douglas. Michael Douglas's.
SPEAKER_04:I can't get over Michael Douglas. Like he's just such a cartoon. Well, yeah. Like that's true. The Gordon Gecko. He's like Gordon Gecko everywhere he goes.
SPEAKER_02:Everywhere. Yeah. Slick back hair suit.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Did you wait? Did you where I want to transition? Did you do any shopping for see? Because we've talked about this on the pod before. Our relationship with spending. Did you do any Black Friday, Small Business Saturday? So Day of Rest and then Cyber Monday.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, yeah. We got some A Bluey. I don't think I'm in danger of my nieces listening to this podcast. What? But we got a bluey for my little.
SPEAKER_02:Josh is showing me, for those of you who can't see, a bluey.
SPEAKER_04:A bluey tea party.
SPEAKER_02:Paint and play. Oh, that's incredible. Yeah. Bluey's such a good show.
SPEAKER_04:It's great. Bluey is like a K-pop Demon Hunters, where you're like, oh, this is cute.
SPEAKER_02:This is really cute.
SPEAKER_04:Like I'm watching it, I'm laughing.
SPEAKER_02:They're gonna love this.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I think that'll be great. And then a purse for my middle niece, my middleest niece, as she calls herself.
SPEAKER_01:Probably seen it.
SPEAKER_04:Sponsored by Bluey and bingo.
SPEAKER_02:That's amazing.
SPEAKER_04:You know what was so funny over the weekend, my nieve, my niece, like, you know, at the holidays, it's like there's a lot of people around. It's loud. So like the adults will be around the table and the kids will be sitting with us, and we'll our voices will be like loud, and just because we're just talking like over a bunch of people, but she doesn't always like understand the nature of the conversation. So more than once, she like puts her arms out to all the adults.
SPEAKER_03:She goes, Are we talking nice? Are we that what?
SPEAKER_02:Like she thinks, okay, got it.
SPEAKER_03:Are you fighting?
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_03:She said one time she said, Are you are we talking nice? And then another time she goes, Is this nice talk? Like, confused, and it really makes me laugh.
SPEAKER_04:Like we all laughed so yeah, like she's trying to understand, but in some ways she sounds like an old, like Italian grandpa, being like, Are we talking nice? You know, like it's so funny.
SPEAKER_03:We talking nice. God, it really was funny.
SPEAKER_04:That's awesome, but yeah, it's like they they hear the raised voices, they're not sure like what we're saying.
SPEAKER_02:That sometimes, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:So it's like, or she'll say to Josh, like one time, she was like, Your face changed. Like when he was frustrated trying to buckle her into her car see, face changed, like something wrong, kind of thing.
SPEAKER_01:I don't like my feet, they're cold.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, yeah, she said that too. I don't like my feet, they're cold. That's really funny. God, they're so funny. Yeah, we had so much fun with them this weekend. They're really a hoot. But yeah, yeah, I don't even know. Oh, because we got them this gifts. So yeah, I got some gifts. I it's like I'm trying to buy gifts early so that they're more thoughtful. We really whittled down how many gifts we're buying. So gifts would I was gonna I was gonna say gifts were the only thing I bought, but that would be a lie. Kelly. I didn't buy it, Jack for myself. Come clean. But it is a vintage jacket, so it's resale from Poshmark. Nice, and it's fur-lined leather, but like you know, resold leather, so you know, don't come for me. Yeah. And it's like warm leather coat that's kind of cool, has like a fur collar, but then leather. Did you get it yet? Or it's no, it's in root. I showed it to Josh and he said it was okay. Love that.
SPEAKER_01:That was when I was listening to Alfredo 2 by Freddie Gibbs in bed. Reading the lyrics.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, you were in a good mood, and that's when I asked you if I could buy it.
SPEAKER_01:And I in a good mood said, I love it. Yeah. And I even gave you an opinion on which one I liked more. I said you did.
SPEAKER_02:The first one's good. Here you go.
SPEAKER_04:And honestly, like jackets now are I mean, jackets from Gap or 300 bucks. Yeah. Ones that are not well made. And I'm like, this is leather vintage, and it was a pretty reasonable price, but it is a purchase that I made for myself.
SPEAKER_02:That's good though. So that I wasn't for you by the deals are just so insane sometimes, though. It's hard to pass up.
SPEAKER_04:I know.
SPEAKER_02:Like I got some long sleeve shirts from Old Navy. I think they actually gave me money for yeah, old Navy can really go to like I don't know how that place stays in business because this it was like 60% off on top of like other deals. So I was like, well, I could I could actually use some of these. Um did you get the shirts? Yeah, I got, I mean, I haven't received them yet, but I was I think the total bill for like six long-sleeve shirts was like$22 or something. Like it was just so insane that I was like, I'm not gonna pass this up, you know. And I'll probably have those for years. So I did get some shirts and we bought uh which this didn't work out that well. We did get Wes basketball shoes, my oldest son's basketball shoes, because he's got his season coming up. He they didn't fit the way he wanted. And so Sarah and I actually thought this would be a good idea, which definitely wasn't, not a wise idea. We were in Milwaukee just the day after Thanksgiving, so it was the Friday, and we were like, well, why don't we just go to a local mall that's close to my parents' house, like in the afternoon and just like return it? Yeah, nightmare.
SPEAKER_04:So many people, so many people parking was a nightmare.
SPEAKER_02:They had, I haven't been to a mall in such a long time, yeah, especially on uh Black Friday. They had like the roped off outside of the stores, yeah. Yeah, so people were like in line to get into the store.
SPEAKER_04:I mean, brick and mortar is back. Why?
SPEAKER_02:I think people are feeling Are they worried about shoplifters? Why wouldn't they just let everybody in? Oh, oh at once.
SPEAKER_01:I thought you were saying, why is it back?
SPEAKER_04:You know, I think why is it like I think theft is a bigger thing these days because think about it like CVS, how many things are now locked in that stupid cabinet.
SPEAKER_02:So we were walking in like the mall, like you would, and then there's like lines outside of the stores. Not every store, but that didn't happen at old orchards. I mean, is that a Milwaukee thing? I don't know. I haven't been I I mean, I don't know. Yeah, anyway, we were able to return the shoes, but I was like, man, this is lit. And we thought because we went in the afternoon, maybe all of the real die hards would have gone in the morning to get all the deals and this and that, but it was a zoo, it was an absolute zoo.
SPEAKER_04:Well, it's like there's almost no time because like early for the mall is like 11 o'clock. That's when it all opens. And it's like people are ready to shop by then. So there were the whole day.
SPEAKER_02:There were lines outside the bathrooms, there were lines at Auntie Annie's.
SPEAKER_04:There, yeah, there's lines everywhere. The last time I went to the mall, I went with my mom. It was everywhere. We we went into Sephora. It was a jumbo. And I I truly was like looking at these eyebrow pencils, and I'm like, because there were so many people, I think I was panicked. I'm like, I can't find the one that I want. So I called over. Of course I do this because I'm psycho.
SPEAKER_03:I immediately call over like an employee, and I'm like, I need to find this color of this eyebrow pencil. He literally goes one inch in front of my face and just like pulls it up and gives it to me. I literally looked at him and I was like, I'm so sorry, I just did that. I'm panicked.
SPEAKER_04:And he was like, That's okay. I just was like, How inappropriate! Like, what a Karen again.
SPEAKER_02:It reminds me of those clips of those like bridal stores that have they like open the doors and it's like a stampede of people.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, like a sample sale. Right. Oh my god. It was yeah, it is crazy. I think people are shopping in person a lot more. I think there is more theft.
SPEAKER_02:Anyway, so that was like my Black Friday experience.
SPEAKER_04:And you just returned, you didn't buy.
SPEAKER_02:Well, that was a whole nother thing. We wanted because he didn't like the shoes, and then we were looking online for more shoes, and we were like, why don't you just come with us to the store? But then he didn't want to. And so the con the natural consequence of that is then you're just gonna wear the shoes you have to basketball.
SPEAKER_05:Right.
SPEAKER_02:So that's where he's at right now. He had practice tonight, and which is he's fine with that. But we were like, we were willing to get these for you. It was a sale um for the new season, but the return was I I didn't expect that many people there. But oh my god.
SPEAKER_04:Anyway, and the shoes are only he's only worn them for one season.
SPEAKER_02:Well, he the shoes he wore last season are too small, so now he's just wearing his like shoes that he got for the school year to basketball. Okay, but we figured you know, we're but they're basketball shoes. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_04:Oh my god, I like totally forgot kids grow out of their shoes. I was just thinking they wear out, but they obviously grow out.
SPEAKER_02:It both happen depending on the shoe. But yeah, I know they grow, and that's a whole nother thing. When the winter comes, now we're realizing there are certain things that don't fit because it just snowed. So we were taking them out in the snow and we're like, well, that's too small.
SPEAKER_04:We gotta get you another god God bless I have a child.
SPEAKER_00:The amount I'm gonna want to buy them.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I mean, that will be a disease. You're gonna need her a straight jacket. Yeah, don't you think?
SPEAKER_01:I'm gonna have to clamp down, clamp down, or I'm gonna have to work really hard.
SPEAKER_04:Because I was saying to Josh, I was like, there's some babies out there I've been seeing on Instagram that have such good style, and like I would want my baby to have good style. It's just so fun. You get a whole nother person to dress.
SPEAKER_02:Well, you might want to just enjoy that while it lasts when they don't have an opinion.
SPEAKER_04:That's what I mean.
SPEAKER_02:Because when they start fighting back, or if they just want to wear the same thing every day, which that's kind of a blessing in disguise sometimes.
SPEAKER_04:You then just give them a bunch of the same thing, or you Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:We've we've had iterations of that where we've bought multiple whatever it is, pants, yeah, you know, pajamas, like whatever that they really like. It's like great, you get five of those and don't wear them every day.
SPEAKER_04:Honestly, I it could go either way. I could be like, I can't think of another thing, right?
SPEAKER_02:But there's no way it's gonna go that way because you might be so exhausted that you won't even have that itch right to buy.
SPEAKER_04:It's like it's literally like a drug. I've I've said to Josh, like I've lifted my head from the computer screen and felt like this must be what people feel like when they're on like a gambling website.
SPEAKER_00:Like you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02:Like where you're like I was just associated, but is it because I do think it is relaxing sometimes to just look, but I don't have the itch to buy. Are you able to just look for look's sake and that's fine?
SPEAKER_04:I'm able, but I don't like that.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_04:It's like I like it, but like I'm thinking about the items and I'm going, I'm opening the page the next day again.
SPEAKER_02:Because sometimes I just like to drift off and just look.
SPEAKER_04:I wish I could send it down the river, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:I mean, I can, I ultimately can, but yeah. I could see really. I mean, if I were like a mom, this will never be me, but if I were a mom of like four kids, that would just get too overwhelming, and I would then just be like, You're all wearing the same thing. Or whatever, wear whatever you want.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Like one kid?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. I mean, I have a lot more understanding as a parent now why my mom wanted us to have school uniforms.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Because then it just was out of the question.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, I guess I could have been angry at my mom, but or dad, but it's yeah, not their rule. It's like your school just makes you wear a uniform.
SPEAKER_04:Did you like your school uniform?
SPEAKER_02:I only had it for two or three years, maybe two years.
SPEAKER_00:They got rid of it?
SPEAKER_02:Uh no, they Actually, I didn't have one until I think they had like a vote every year or something like this, or every other year they would have a vote. I I'm pretty sure my parents were very pro uniform. It was fine. It was, I think your option was like khaki pants or navy plant pants, and then a polo shirt. And you had like three different for guys, you had three different colors of polo shirts you could wear.
SPEAKER_04:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:So it was like a white.
SPEAKER_04:That's nice. You have an option.
SPEAKER_02:A white, a navy, and maybe like a powder blue or something like that.
SPEAKER_04:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:So yeah, it was like a little bit of a choice, but that was it.
SPEAKER_04:We had plaid skirts. Yeah. And but blue button down.
SPEAKER_02:That's kind of like classic Catholic.
SPEAKER_04:And then it was like plaid dress. And then after like sixth grade, you could wear a skirt.
SPEAKER_02:Ooh.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:I mean, it's so funny thinking about it too, because it's like the uniform, like probably the Catholic idea is like a conservative idea, but like the ways we tried to bend those rounds.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:It's comical.
SPEAKER_02:For sure.
SPEAKER_04:It's like we probably would have dressed more conservatively if we got to wear whatever we wanted.
SPEAKER_02:I don't know.
SPEAKER_04:Instead, the skirts were so short. Right. They were way shorter than they were supposed to be. Yeah. So funny. But I liked having a uniform. It didn't really bother me that much.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, it definitely made the morning a little bit less chaotic.
SPEAKER_04:And people had their own like style still with it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. A little flavor. Yeah. You just zhuzh it up, maybe. Yeah. Bracelet, necklace.
SPEAKER_04:Your socks. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:How did we get here?
SPEAKER_04:I have no idea. We were talking about buying clothes.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, that's how we got here.
SPEAKER_04:Oh my god. Okay, maybe we should get into our topic.
SPEAKER_02:We don't have one.
SPEAKER_04:Well, our topic today comes from an article that was in the cut. It was like in the self section of the cut where a writer was talking about how she broke up with her therapist and started seeing a psychic.
SPEAKER_02:No, okay. So just give me more.
SPEAKER_04:Okay. I'll summarize the article.
SPEAKER_02:I'm already lying. Okay, wait a second.
SPEAKER_04:Well, I'm curious here first before.
SPEAKER_02:Well, my first when you said started seeing, how often do you see a psychic?
SPEAKER_04:You know, that is a really good question because I think it's a very kind of unregulated thing, as you can imagine. So I think you could see a psychic every day if you wanted. But I think a lot of people, I mean, I think a lot of people have them on call. Okay. I mean, maybe I'm talking like people that are way into it. I think some people go like monthly, some people just go sporadically.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And like astrologers are a little bit different than psychics and intuitives, and mediums are another thing. Cause I don't think there'd be a reason to see a medium every week.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, I'm just so curious the jump from therapist to psychic.
SPEAKER_04:Okay. So basically, in the article, and I had like many thoughts on this. Like being a person who's open to the spiritual in a big way and manifestation and all this stuff. I definitely had some like skepticism of some parts, and then some. Are you okay?
SPEAKER_01:Sorry, I just uh had my phone volume on. I was researching psychic audio. Oh no, I opened up my Instagram. Oh, just trying to multitask. I'm on the job. Responding to comments on our social media. See?
SPEAKER_04:I'm working here. I'm working. I'm why I am. I was just like about to break up with his two therapist for a psychic. Ooh.
SPEAKER_01:On Instagram. Yeah, I know.
SPEAKER_04:Um, no, so okay, this woman, she, yeah, I had some questions about it. And now it'll be interesting what you think too. But um, so she was seeing a therapist for a while, and from the article, she described it as a cognitive behavioral therapist. She called the woman Lori. That's not her real name, but that's what she called her. So she was seeing Lori for a while, and she was saying she found it helpful. She and a main thing that she was gaining from it was a sense of like understanding herself, which of course, like in therapy. Right. But when she would describe their interactions, she was like, it was very like cerebral. And she she described a lot of validation from the therapist, which is great. I wasn't hearing a ton else. And she was like, I found the work helpful at first, and then I started to dread every session and feel like worried I was gonna not gonna have anything to talk about.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_04:So that kind of set off like a alarm bells for me in terms of like when I have clients that regularly like, quote, don't have things to talk about. Or like if there's been times for me in my own therapy, I didn't have things to talk about, which has like happened almost never. And that could be for a lot of reasons. Like how I approach therapy. Me as a person, I'm chatty. I probably really overanalyze my life a bit. But I've had moments where I'm like, oh man, I have a therapy session and I'm feeling good. I don't really want to unpack stuff. But that's happened to me literally like once in like seven years. So I mean, and often like then, secretly, there is something I really need to talk about. And then I do when I have like a super profound session. I that's my experience, but anyway, I'm obviously incredibly pro-therapy. And I don't think that one replaces the other personally. But so she was having that experience, and she decided like, I think that I could just feel like we're it was kind of like a relationship that was expiring a bit. She could kind of sense that. And I mean, I've sensed that with clients before and and kind of welcomed it with the client. Like, this might be a time for you to move on to someone else or notherapy.
SPEAKER_05:Or no therapy.
SPEAKER_04:But so she sent her an email terminating, which I thought was interesting. I mean, it happens plenty of times. A lot of people don't want to sit through a whole termination session. But I I don't know about you, but like you you are sort of taught in school to really encourage a termination session. Just so you can really be more clear on like, is there avoidance happening here? Is there feedback for therapists? Is there feedback for client? Is there are there things to notice even in the desire to terminate?
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:That are worth unpacking. But she sent an email and it sounds like the therapist was just like, all right, God bless. Um, which can happen too. But I thought all that was interesting. And then she was like at lunch, what did she say? Pasta and martinis with a friend. So I guess it was dinner. Um, you know, I love to talk about food. Um, she's having pasta and martinis with a friend. And the friend was talking about his psychic. Okay. Oh, what was the woman's name? I think this was the real woman's name, Destiny. The psychic destiny. And he's like, she has changed my life. Like, she has transformed my life. And he was describing all these ways that she did. I don't think she detailed them in the article because I think I would have remembered them. But she was like, Wow, like maybe I need to see Destiny. And she was saying that the only interaction she'd ever had with any kind of psychic before was when she was in her 20s in Chicago, actually. Shout out. She was at a bar and some girl like took her palm and read it and said that she had like a short lifespan. So she was like horrified and then was like really nervous to meet with this destiny, but she did book a session. And what she experienced was like right when she sat down, and when she said this in the article, it reminded me of like some experiences I've had with psychics. I'm curious if you've ever like run into them in the course of your life. I know you're not super into this. No, okay. Well, maybe they avoid me. But we have worked with people that have some clairvoyance. But yeah, maybe they maybe they can sense like he's not into this.
SPEAKER_02:Guys not into it.
SPEAKER_04:Which is totally fair. But um But maybe I'll go to one. It's kind of an interesting exercise, even if you don't believe it. But she sat down with her. It was over Zoom, and she said she was really, really nervous. She's like, My palms were sweating, and I thought that was funny because of the palm reading. But she went and destiny sat down, and right away she was like, You've been fighting something really hard. And she was like tuning into her and tuning into her like spirit guides. And she's like, You have a daughter, right? And she hadn't filled out anything. So she was like, I do. And she's like, And are you still with her father? And she was like, I am. And the psychic said, You are working so desperately to fix him and you need to stop. And she said, This year is gonna be about you. And I think she was kind of like stopped in her tracks because she had been doing exactly that, like really trying to work on the relationship, make it work. And she was then describing the work with Lori around that. And it was like, she's like, Lori always really validated me and validated the way I was handling things. And what destiny did was like put her at the center, not the husband, kind of, and wanted her to notice like you're trying to fix him, you need to focus on self, which like a lot of therapists would do. A lot wouldn't, or I guess I'm even thinking of myself. I'm like, there's times where we talk about it as like relationship dynamics and skills around relational things. And sometimes we notice, like, when this happens with partner, what's coming up in you? How are you reacting? It's a mix, depending on the person and depending on what they're seeking and how much self-awareness they have already and all these things. But it sounded like what she really needed from Destiny was a little bit of this like nudge, she describes like someone with a more authoritative voice saying, You're trying to fix your husband's stop. Yeah. And it probably was almost more profound because she hadn't told her any of that. Right. She doesn't know anything. She doesn't know anything. And then since then, the writer has broken up with the man and has like changed her life, changed her career, like did all this different stuff and was finding it helpful. But then by the end of the article, she was talking about kind of how both of them were helpful, not like screw therapy, it's all about destiny. She was noticing, like, neither were the be-all end-all. Right. You know, she was the be-all and all, and she's the center of it. And and and it's like the therapist taught her a lot of like more cerebral skills, and destiny taught her some like grounding work so that she could get into her own kind of like psychic abilities, which you could say is her own wise mind, ultimately. But it was interesting, it was an interesting article. Yeah, so I'm curious your first thought. And she continually sees the psychic. So I don't think she sees her. She now was listing the like provider she sees. One is like a somatic experiencing therapist. So it is a therapist who does a little more body work. And she's in a 12-step program, she didn't say what, or like two 12-step programs, I think she said. She meditates. I don't know if she has a teacher for that. And maybe she does see destiny or like an astrologer or something every so often.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:It was something like that. And she was like, and some people might think that's too many. And I think it's like just right. And I was like, hmm, interesting. Um, yeah, I'm curious what you think.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, I'm always pro if what you're doing helps you.
SPEAKER_03:Yes. And works.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and it's not hurting you, it's not hurting other people, right? Like if if going to a psychic is going to get you where you feel like it's more places you want to be or need to be, or more authentic, or you know, absolutely. I'm not against psychics by any means. Right. I think to your original point, yeah, I think it is interesting when people say, I don't have anything to talk about in therapy. Yeah. I don't think that's always a bad thing. I think that could be maybe this person needed a new perspective, and that perspective needed to be more assertive and somebody not as val, you know, if her words were validating, not as validating. Maybe somebody that just told her outright or in more of an honest and assertive way, like, yeah, cut it out. Like, you need to stop with this. You know. Um, I mean, that's fascinating that the person didn't know anything and somehow psychically or you know, knew that about her.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Um, and so maybe she needed that fresh perspective or voice. And whether that be from a psychic or another therapist or somebody, you know, because I do think we all, as even as therapists, we have our own styles, and sometimes that runs its course. And then I appreciate her insight of that was useful for a while and it gave me some things, and then maybe she needed something else.
SPEAKER_04:Right. Um, but it's impossible really to tell exactly why, right? It would almost be too naive to say, like, well, therapy was bad, or therapy isn't. No, yeah. Cause I've gotten to that place. I think it happens in a lot of therapy relationships where you might get into like a rhythm that's not really that effective.
SPEAKER_02:Right. Yeah. And it's like, no, it can certainly. That rhythm can be even too comfortable. And then yeah, we're we're avoiding things as therapists, then.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_02:Or topics, or we know the safe topics, or even the topics that we feel more effective in talking with them about versus other ones.
SPEAKER_04:And so I'm trying to think like, what would I do if I were Lori? You know, like in this case, like, because I've been Laurie, like where, yeah, it's like you're getting it, you're falling into this rhythm. And you know, like, I don't know enough about exactly about their vibe, sure, or how long they even work together. Cause like those rhythms can come from different things too. It can be so many things.
SPEAKER_02:But you know, like it, and this is hard to So you being Laurie in the sense of you are told like you don't need to meet anymore.
SPEAKER_04:Well, almost even before that moment, almost like because I think if Lori is a good therapist, she's sensing what's happening.
SPEAKER_02:Wouldn't you bring it up?
SPEAKER_04:Yes. And I think it's like it is hard.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, I'm not saying it's easy. I'm just right, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Because I'm sensing you would too, and you might say, like, yeah, I'm wondering if you're finding this helpful. Or like, I'm sensing that by your coming each week and not really having so much.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_04:It could be that things are just like flowing.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:But I wonder if you're not finding this so useful.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:If you're needing something else.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, I think I would take it, I think I would maybe, yeah, throw out a few things. Maybe you're not finding it as helpful. Maybe you're ready to we can think about ending or or tapering sessions. Like maybe we could think about why don't we take a month? And you come back in a month, and yeah, we can check in how that went, and maybe you decide, yeah, like I think right now, let's just pause this. Maybe it's not necessary. Or in a month, maybe you come back and because maybe it's also the frequency with which sometimes people are meeting that could lead to that sense of not having anything to talk about.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. So but I do think, because if we notice like this woman who wrote the article, it wasn't like she had like kind of reached like a graduation point. It seemed like the relationship kind of soured a little or like ran its course, but she still had work to do. Which to me is curious because like we've both had the experience, like you can sense when someone is just like transcending, moving. And it's like you're ready for less of this.
SPEAKER_02:Sure.
SPEAKER_04:You're ready to try it on your own. And there's other times where you're like, I almost can feel like an eye roll on the other end of the camera or the other chair. And it's sort of like good work isn't being done here, but there's something needs to be addressed.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Rather than just like, all right, so yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. I mean, well, that's where, you know, for me, I would maybe get a little bit more concrete with the person and have them do some sort of an exercise for me.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:To stir up maybe more of a conversation, not to feed them what they should talk about, but that could be something where it's like, you know, we haven't done a values inventory in a while. I'm wondering if you could do this for me and we could really see how much you're really leaning into the things that are important in your life. And if there's any relational piece that could open up this person to maybe talk about their relationship with their husband or, you know, what's going on because they're identifying, oh, yeah, my relationships, that's a value. Okay, well, how are you leaning into those relationships right now? And what is meaningful? And then you might be seeing some avoidance or something, you know. So I think I would I might give them something more concrete to elicit something. Yeah. Yeah. And to just go, and that's why I always appreciate values work because that's always something if they fill it out at the beginning, middle, end, it doesn't matter. Yeah, you can always go back to it and say, let's just check in with these things. Like, let's talk about some measurable behaviors you've engaged in that have really leaned you in in these ways. Or how have you not been leaning in to these things recently, right? And creating that meaning for yourself.
SPEAKER_04:Right. Like saying to her, You're coming each session with nothing to talk about. Let's notice, like, is it because you're just living your valued life? Let's check these. Yeah. When you look at these, what do you? And she might say, like, no.
SPEAKER_02:Or are you on autopilot and you're not really intentionally thinking about these things at all, really? Which we all get into that place, right?
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_02:And is that zone that you're in of just kind of going through the motions? Is that really giving you vitality and and the life you kind of want?
SPEAKER_04:So and sometimes in DB2, too, they might the method might suggest like it's a therapy-interfering behavior to come to therapy and sort of in one way or another refuse to talk. Sure. So, like in that case, you kind of have to address that very behavior. You know, like that has to be the focus of session. Or like I was thinking about this when I read um one of the Yalam books. I maybe we've talked about this, where he said, if you notice you're really bored in the session as a therapist, it usually means like there's something really important to talk about that's being avoided. And if there is something important to be talked about that's being avoided, nothing interesting or worthwhile will be said in the session. And I'm like, that totally resonates. And you know, maybe that thing for this woman was you gotta let go of fixing Joe Schmo, right?
SPEAKER_02:You know, her husband. I think too, with people that present that way, I think those are the And I don't always lean into this per se, because some people just come with they're ready. Like some people just come and they're ready. A hundred percent. Some people need like homework. And I'm, you know, and I think homework is useful in a lot of different ways for people because then you can even see how are you engaging with what we talk about outside of here. And if you don't do your homework, that's another indicator of like, okay, well, we talked about you doing whatever the homework is, right? For the next therapy session. It's like, okay, well, let's check in about that. Um, and that's your starting point. And it's like, oh, you didn't do that. Okay, well, what got in the way of that, right? Well, I kind of see that, like, also when you're here, you're not really as engaged. So what's getting in the way of that as well, right? So you're not engaged in your therapy work outside of here, you're not engaged here. And I think that that's also a little bit of a jumping off point of the avoidance kind of issue, you know.
SPEAKER_04:Totally.
SPEAKER_02:So I think holding them accountable when they're not just in the session, and and I think that's useful for everybody to have certain kinds of homework or what that could look like. But some people don't need that because again, they come and they're almost like too good of a student and they're telling you what they like. I did all of this and I had this conversation, and remember what we talked about? And I tried, and it's like, that's great, right? I love that.
SPEAKER_04:Um God, it's painful when you kind of have to call that.
SPEAKER_02:But sometimes you gotta rein that in too, right?
SPEAKER_04:When you're like, I'm noticing you're using this time that you're spending this much money on to prove that you're a good student.
SPEAKER_02:Tell me you're good. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Instead of letting me help you or lyrics together help you.
SPEAKER_02:Anyway, so I think there's a few different ways to maybe elicit before you move into the well, maybe this has just kind of run its course, or maybe another therapist would engage with you, right, in a different way, or yeah, and it's like or psychic.
SPEAKER_04:I'd be so curious if like Laura was dreading their sessions too. Wouldn't that be interesting to know? We'll never know. But there truly are so many ways to go where you could almost get to probably a lot of the meat that destiny got to. And I don't want to take anything away from destiny because how profound it is for someone who doesn't know you to say something deeply resonates. It's the coolest thing. I mean, I ultimately really think that like the intuitive stuff and therapy to me are two totally different things. And I really do like both. Sure. You know, I I'm I'm not your average audience. Like, I really do love both, and like growth and like exp spiritual expansion is like one of my number one values. So it's like obviously I'm into that. But with the avoidance or like the not talking about and not having things to talk about in session, like it could even be interesting to say, like, okay, let's notice you don't have anything, you don't feel like anything pressing. I wonder what it would be like for you to just talk and see what came out. Like, is there something almost like you're fearing would come out of your mouth? And that might be the very thing destiny might be able to just like laser in on, which is still way cooler to be destiny to like zero in on it. Yeah. But even what we're talking about is a little bit of some sensing from the therapist, some intuition, right? Like some of the wise mind. Yeah. But you know, it made me think about because I I do both of these, it made me think about like I've had like different like run-ins. I feel like I I was working at the office and I told you this. We were in sharing an office, and I was in an Uber. A psychic run-in? Yeah, it was the driver of an Uber. I was like leaving a birthday party. I was single or I don't know. And it was this guy, I believe he was from India. And it didn't happen right away that he like started talking about it. And it didn't freak me out either. Like, you know, so easily it could be like some creepy guy or anybody. It just did not feel like that. He was like, Is your birthday coming up soon? It was something like that. And I was like, Oh, yeah, it's this week. And he was like, Oh, I kind of could sense that. I think he said, I'm I'm kind of an intuitive. And he just goes, he looks in the rear room and he goes, Do you mind? Like, do you mind if I got intuitive?
SPEAKER_02:Do you mind if I got intuitive right here?
SPEAKER_04:And I was like, sure. Like, I'm into that. And of course, I was already like, even if this is crazy, it'll be so interesting. And he didn't creep me out. And he was like, You've been through a lot of hard things. And I was like, Yeah. And of course, I'm like, this could who has a lot of people. I was like, Yeah. And he was like, and you're still going through them. And that I remember like kind of hit me because I was like, really, definitely like some things with my health, some things with dating, like, you know, like pain, big time pain. And I was like, Oh, I it felt like uh I was actually being kind of like red. And then he was like, he took his hand, his hand was like in a fist, and he's like, You have you have so many people in your life that love you, that really love you. He's like, But with all of them, you're like this, and he held his fist like tight, and he's like, and you need to be like this. And he opened it. And I was like, Again, this could apply to so many people, but I was like, it did really apply to me. And I was like, and then he gave me this practice to do when I got home.
SPEAKER_02:Wow.
SPEAKER_04:It was like light a candle. He said it so fast, I didn't do the practice because I genuinely didn't really hear what he said, which is too bad. But he wanted me to do this practice of like connecting to myself, and then he was just like, bye. Like it really did not feel creepy. And I was like, it felt like a real thing. And I thought a lot about that afterward, that like holding the fist tight and opening it. Yeah. And like to me, that experience is so different. I mean, I would have that experience and then go talk to my therapist about it. Right. And we would draw from it what was meaningful, what was resonant in that. What did you notice in yourself when that happened? It felt so different. But then I also like, I think I also was working with you when I went to get a past life regression.
SPEAKER_02:No, I remember that. I don't remember the cab so much. You don't remember the cab, okay. But also, there's a 50-50 chance I just kind of glazed over when you brought up a psychic, but in the office. I'm just saying when these when the manifesting types come up. Totally, totally. Well, but the past life regression, yes.
SPEAKER_04:So, like, I did one on my own, and then I also went to a place. And the one I went to, like, I I couldn't get into it.
SPEAKER_05:Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_04:The woman had me, and and I had heard she was like the premier past life regression person. It was like my 32nd birthday or something. I like to do stuff like that on my birthday. At least I used to. She like brought me down to the basement of this like chakra shop. It's like over there on Lincoln. You know the McDonald's on Lincoln and Western, like the one that's like right near there. Oh. Yeah. I'm sure I've seen it. Totally. It's called the Chakra Shop. And she brought me down to the basement, basically to like this like rickety old hallway. And there was like a table there. And she's like, lie down. And I was like, Oh, no, thanks. Like, you know, put my purse like anywhere and just like lay down. And she was like, kind of like, go into your past life. And I was like, What? Like, I couldn't. There was no like, I almost was like, Did she forget about this appointment? And she's like rushing me through it.
SPEAKER_02:Interesting.
SPEAKER_04:I'm trying to give her the benefit of the doubt because I'm like, I heard this woman was good, and like this is really bad. You know, just like I can't just go into a past life. Like, you're gonna have to guide me. What does that even mean? So, like, and she kept being like, What are you seeing? Like, what are you seeing? And I was like, the inside of my eyelids, like I was seeing nothing, and I'm into this stuff. Did I tell you about this, Josh? Maybe I I don't know if I did because it just didn't it didn't resonate. It didn't resonate, and then and then at one point I was just like, I'm seeing like red, and there was one point where I like saw like a future house I was living in, and I was like cutting a tomato, so this was like a future life. I mean, it was a mess.
SPEAKER_02:Wow, it was a total mess. But then your future life riveting, you're cutting a tomato.
SPEAKER_04:Beautiful, juicy tomato. You know, it's always comes back to food. It's food, but I then I went home and did. Do you know who Dr. Brian Weiss is? No.
SPEAKER_03:So I'm just like talking to myself, right?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, Brian. So he wrote a book. Let me look up Brian Weiss.
SPEAKER_04:He he's a psychiatrist. Charlie. Yeah. And his his specialty is past life work. Okay. Because he like stumbled upon it with a client. He was doing basically like you know, like young childhood work.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_04:And then the person suddenly was like, This is a past life. This isn't my childhood. And he like got kind of pulled into it. And now that's like his specialty. But he, what is it? Many lives, many masters is the book. I read it. It's really short. So it's an easy read. But if you're interested, not my therapist. Not much there.
unknown:Not much there.
SPEAKER_04:My therapist, my previous therapist, Melissa, recommended it. And I read it in like a second. And he has an hour-long meditation on the insight timer with that's a past life regression. So I did the Brian Weiss one and I did get stuff. And in all the past lives that came up, I was a man, which is interesting. That is interesting. Because I had like really big calves and like hairy legs I could like see, which is like interesting. And one of the lives I was like in this like body of water witnessing some like upsetting scene. I think it was maybe like a man attacking a woman. And I mean, unfortunately, in this, I I didn't didn't appear as though I was like intervening. I just was like stomping out of the water, like really angry. That's kind of all I got. I don't even know what that means, but that's what came up in the Brian Weiss one. I mean, people get these really elaborate narratives and stuff. Like that's really all I got. And I was wearing like a dress, like, you know, like almost those dresses in like Jesus times, you know, like sandals and a dress, like Roman Empire or whatever. It was something like that. And yeah, I was like stomping out of the water. That's really all I got. And then I've also done astrology stuff, which I think is interesting too. Yeah. And we've worked with people that are really into that and talk about it. Have you done anything with that?
SPEAKER_02:No. You asked me about my birthday, though.
SPEAKER_03:And oh, yeah, we did your human design.
SPEAKER_02:We did the human design. We did an episode on that if you want to go back in the archives. Totally.
SPEAKER_04:Well, I remember your human design. Yeah. You're a generator. Josh is also a generator.
SPEAKER_02:Generator, generator. I'm a furnace.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. And like, Josh, tell us your experience with any of this, like psychic stuff. Are you into it at all? Oh well.
SPEAKER_01:You're a doc. I am into it. Well, yeah, I'm directing a doc about pet psychics, which that's another element because I feel like I'm such a big animal person. Yeah. So I think that brings into this whole sphere of like, I feel like animals are thinking, like basically have a level of cognition and a whole inner world that is hard to access because we literally don't speak the same language. And you could think, oh, there's like nothing going on there. You could think, oh, they have a whole interesting inner world. And like there are these pet psychics who, if you're unfamiliar with the term, I mean it is somewhat like a psychic where they're literally reading the pet. They sit down on a couch with the pet and they read the pet. But it is interesting because it's kind of this like, you know, Venn diagram between like there's the pet psychics on one end, then there's like an animal communicator on the other end, or like an animal behaviorist, and people who are looking into like animal cognition, and I it's all interrelated. And I think it's interesting kind of to try to unpack, you know, the the tagline of my movie is what are your pets really thinking?
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um, which like has nothing to do with what we're talking about. Like you could tell me what you're thinking. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:But I wonder if, like, and I think you're kind of raising this question in the doc, is like trying to find out what your pet's thinking is probably ultimately trying to find out something about yourself.
SPEAKER_01:Totally. And sometimes I think the psychics agenda will come in. Totally. Yeah. And I think there's a wisdom in just like applying some new practice to your wise mind, like kind of taking a new lens to yourself and to your story. Just feel, you know, if you have the money to spare, like feels like a wise thing, and a psychic is just yet another lens.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Could you move from a psychic to a more run-of-the-mill therapist and like get a lot out of that? I mean, I'm sure.
SPEAKER_02:No one's moving in that direction, but the thing about psychic too is there's a version of it where the person is still avoidant because they want the psychic to just tell them. To do it. To do it. Yeah. Because that's initially when you told me about like the article.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Which it doesn't sound like it was, you know, it got you to read the article. It's not like she like left one and then was like, oh, psychic, yay, like the psychic is doing, you know, there is like probably more balance than there was a middle ground between all of it. And the way it's described, though, is oh, it was I was dreading it. I didn't have anything to talk about. It's almost like you tell me what I should be doing, you know. So that to me is also an avoidance. And I think there's something to be said, maybe. I mean, I don't know enough, but what would it be like for you to s to say some of these things to actually come with your own agenda and step into your self-worth, dare I say, or really own your story or your values or the things you want in your life, as opposed to somebody telling you or you know, the things you need to change. Right. So well, it makes me think even too about like people who because the psychic doesn't care what you think necessarily, in the sense of like they're telling you what they're reading from you. Right. Right. I've never been to one.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:But it's not as much of a discourse or interaction in that way. It's more of a, okay, maybe you share a few things, but then they're kind of just telling you, right? So it does kind of take the responsibility off you.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_02:You know, coming in in a it's vulnerability in a different way, right? Because you're you're allowing somebody to kind of tell you what they're seeing, which can be probably my guess, would be really uncomfortable.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:In certain ways, but I don't know.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Maybe there's like, I want someone to kind of do it for me to tell me what to do.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and that doesn't mean you're gonna do it. It sounds like she made some real change in her life, and that was really effective from what you're saying, which is great. Right. And maybe that's the push that some people need. They they just kind of need that. This is what you need to do.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_02:Not come to that to your own from your own insights or gentle guidance or something.
SPEAKER_04:Right, right. I mean, it also could be the people who prefer kind of like a life coach to a therapist, right? Or even like a religious figure. Right. Like a bhwan. A bogwan, a guru. A guru. And you know, like an osho. A guru. I love a guru, but like I would never follow them to a T, so then it's like I don't love a guru. An Osho, yeah. Shout out to Wild Wild Company. Wild Wild Company. One of our early podcast apps.
SPEAKER_01:Most listened to episode.
unknown:Is it?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And what a great wild world of cults. Oh my god. Something and something.
SPEAKER_04:We definitely need to watch.
SPEAKER_01:199 streams. Someone listen to it, get us to our first 200, baby.
SPEAKER_02:More cult episodes.
SPEAKER_04:We really should. Did you guys you haven't watched the Heaven's Gate cult?
SPEAKER_02:I didn't watch that one. I watched the Nexium one.
SPEAKER_04:Oh my god, Josh and I were just talking about putting that in the queue because I would rewatch it.
SPEAKER_02:The Nexium one?
SPEAKER_04:Isn't the Nexium one so good?
SPEAKER_02:It's good, but I didn't like it as much as Wild Wild Country.
SPEAKER_04:You didn't.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_04:I mean, Wild Wild Country is amazing.
SPEAKER_02:I wonder, though, if I had seen them in reverse order, if I would have had the same thing where I would have liked I liked them both for sure. I mean Wild Wild Country I loved.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, it's like people do sometimes just want like a manual.
SPEAKER_02:They want a manual or they just want to be told how to live their life.
SPEAKER_04:And as a therapist, like if someone comes wanting that, you do the therapist thing of like exploring that. Like, what if there's no manual? What happens then? And they could by the end of that exploration be like, I still want a manual. And of course it's their life, they can do that. Right. And I mean, it's like, I wanted a manual too. I mean, I'm into manifestation. Yeah. But I do think of it, and even like my own like faith and spirituality is really rooted in my wise mind. Like, that's to me, like where that like source energy is. It's like in the self.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. And I think there's different contexts where that can be useful where people, I just need you to tell me what to do here. Absolutely. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And I mean, I've given advice. Yeah. I've definitely done it. I mean, there's sometimes things where you're like, this is just so damn obvious. I kind of gotta just say, especially if it's something really small and like practical.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Sort of like, well, you could call them. You know, like stuff like that.
SPEAKER_02:You try that.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_04:Totally.
SPEAKER_02:I think I lean a little bit more into giving some gentle nudging of parenting advice. In the sense of especially just like modeling certain behaviors or just like modeling like uh how to emote a little bit more with children to connect more in that. Because I think some people do need some coaching in that area a little bit, especially people who are struggling with not having the most uh caring caregivers themselves and now they're caregivers. And so, yeah, it's that that can be necessary, I think. Totally, I think so too.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, there are certain areas that it feels so natural to go a little more in the direction of like advice or advice or like more direct guidance.
SPEAKER_02:Yes. Yeah. Interestingly. Psychic. Well, maybe I should see one. Maybe that should be my New Year's resolution.
SPEAKER_04:That would be incredibly interesting for us.
SPEAKER_02:I could I could my New Year's resolution will be to ooh, if that's gonna be an episode. I don't like New Year's resolution.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, I'd go to one. Three of us could go. Let's get a psychic on the pod.
SPEAKER_02:Well, we should get a psychic on the pod.
SPEAKER_01:Psychic on the pod.
SPEAKER_04:Not necessarily a pet psychic because none of us are pets, but so there's a couple like local psychics that are like pretty famous. Delphina. Don't know. There's this woman in Chicago named Delphina. I think she's on a two-year wait list.
SPEAKER_02:Whoa.
SPEAKER_04:She's apparently like the best.
SPEAKER_02:Two years or pod's gonna be huge. Wait list. I know. I agree, Chad. Two years we're gonna be psychics.
SPEAKER_04:I know. Literally. I also saw an astrologer and she was so great. I wonder if she moved away. She had the coolest apartment. I mean, literally, it was like should have been in Lord of the Rings. It was so cool. In in Old Town in Chicago.
SPEAKER_02:It'd be funny if you like saw that person's apartment and it was so cool, and then they were like, I'm not really a psychic. I'm just in it for the style.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I just have this apartment. I'm just like in it for the look. I put out a shingle.
SPEAKER_02:I'm not really a psychic. Yeah. It's kind of like the way it sounds.
SPEAKER_04:I mean, we honestly, I feel like we we could have someone like that on a side. Yeah, that'd be great. Interesting. I'm aw I'm curious what you all think. Like these kind of like mediums, psychics, intuitive mysticism. How does it does it factor into your exploration of yourself?
SPEAKER_02:Or your therapy, even or your therapy. And how do you blend the two if they are blended?
SPEAKER_04:And you know, I think Lori was not so open to the psychic stuff that like the client would bring in even before she met Destiny. And I also think, yeah, sometimes we mean a therapist who is more open to that stuff. Yeah. I mean, if someone came to me and went, I'm I'm super into that stuff, so we go with it. Go with it. Now, if someone was like super conservative religious, it could be challenging, but could also be not. It depends.
SPEAKER_02:So don't break up with your therapist just yet for psychics.
SPEAKER_04:Please.
SPEAKER_02:And maybe an adjunct.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, maybe an adjunct. You may ultimately make the transition, but it can be thoughtful.
SPEAKER_02:Or have that initial session and see how it feels. Yeah. Or reading or whatever it's called. Download. Wow. Interesting article.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Totally. It was interesting. Oh, we didn't come up with a how wise is it.
SPEAKER_02:We do have one. Oh.
SPEAKER_01:How wise. Am I saying it?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, why not?
SPEAKER_01:Totally. It's in my notes. I don't want to butcher.
SPEAKER_02:You know, you came in so confident.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, it's really now he doesn't know.
SPEAKER_01:It's OCD. I think I knew it, and then I was like, You're like, we do have it. It's how wise it way. I'm just gonna burp instead. We were a hard left. I swallowed it. Okay. How wise is it to have a fake background on your Zoom call?
SPEAKER_02:Oh fake background. Interesting.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. G chat, whatever your uh remote interfacing video technology.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, does that does the does the blur out count as a fake background? That's up for discussion. That falls in our purview. Interesting. How wise is it?
SPEAKER_04:How wise is it to have a fake background on your Zoom or Teams? Teams G Teams meeting. G thing. Yeah. Yeah. What is it called again? Like Google Meets. Is that what it is? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Heard Google Meets. Yeah. Totally. How wise is it?
SPEAKER_04:Well, yeah. I hate them personally. I I Well, I guess let's come clean. Do you have one? No. I I'm really against them. You're against them. I find like when people have them on, their body, like the line outlining their body, is like it's definitely odd. And it it's like I'm not, especially in a therapy Zoom session.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:I need to be able to see their body as it naturally is. To notice like reaction. You know, it's hard enough that we're not in a room together. Yeah. You know, I need to be able to see what's happening there. I think it's also it's kind of diagnostic at times or telling if you don't want to show your home to your therapist. It might be different if you're on like a team's like a thousand-person meeting.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:You know, I think some people don't even have their cameras on and things like that. But definitely in the therapy space, I think it really blocks important like connection and like awareness of each other's like bodies and like nonverbals. Yeah, what do you think?
SPEAKER_02:I don't have one. Um I think it yeah, you bring up a good point. It does make it look awkward and look weird. Yeah. I also think it could be distracting depending on the background.
SPEAKER_04:Definitely.
SPEAKER_02:I don't know what is the most distracting, but I know that there are ones that like have like movement in them, which I think is very distracting to me. There are ones that are just still like almost like a living room, like a fake living room, but it's not, you know, that type of look.
SPEAKER_04:Fake like library.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, those types of things. But I think ones that are like nature-y or have like some nature movement in them can be really distracting. I I don't think it's for me personally to use one is wise at all. I I wouldn't do it. And usually the camera, I don't yeah, like what are you blocking out?
SPEAKER_04:What are you hiding?
SPEAKER_02:What what like something on your walls? Right.
SPEAKER_04:Or even like a messy room.
SPEAKER_02:But how much of that are you even seeing?
SPEAKER_04:Exactly.
SPEAKER_02:Because the camera's on your face. Right. And even if it is messy, who cares?
SPEAKER_04:That's okay.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I I find it boring, obviously, because you're yawning.
SPEAKER_02:I know I'm always yawning on the spot in life.
SPEAKER_03:Um yeah, I think it makes me so bored.
SPEAKER_04:No, I think it I think it it is, and you know, sometimes it's hard. I I need to bring it up more. Do you? I I tend not to, and I think that's something I should do.
SPEAKER_01:You should send out a mass email.
SPEAKER_03:No, no, I think like saying being curious about it. What would it be like to show me?
SPEAKER_02:That could be in your um initial paperwork.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:When you're on a Zoom link with me in our therapy sessions, you cannot have a background.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Only two backgrounds a year.
SPEAKER_02:Only never.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I don't I mean, yeah, why why use a background?
SPEAKER_04:To obscure. Well, that's the real question. That is is worth. I mean, honestly, that's the very question I should just say. So tell me, why use a background here? Why use a background here? And someone might say, Oh, it's so messy in here.
SPEAKER_02:It's like you can't, I don't know. I always think of messy being like the floor. And like your counters can be messy, but it's so far in the background. It's not like you're yeah, I don't know. I just don't think it's even if you were hiding a mess, it's like what looks messy behind you? It's like a wall.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I I don't think it's wise for me. I think if people can maybe be vulnerable with it, it might be more wise to not have one or try try that out. Yeah. And I'm sure there's contexts where you know, maybe you need to have a background for some reason. I don't know. Maybe you're getting glare or I I like or maybe there's a lot going on outside your window that maybe would be distracting, or they think you're doing you a favor. I don't know. Right.
SPEAKER_04:It also like I think it is technically, and I really should mention it because of this. I learned recently in a CEU that it is an issue of confidentiality because you can't just tell if somebody's in there background. That makes sense. So yeah, there really should be a firm policy of none.
SPEAKER_02:Definitely. Because you don't know exactly if people are walking through the space or even in the space. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:I've had clients have to get up for a second for something and they kind of just like disappear into the fit like a bush. Like have you ever seen that Simpsons movie goes so great, yeah, goes into the bush.
SPEAKER_02:It's like that. Well, yeah, maybe they're hiding their pets. Maybe they're sitting with their pets.
SPEAKER_01:They could be like surrounded by a coven. Yeah. Totally. A coven.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, they definitely, they definitely need an American movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Great. They definitely need to.
SPEAKER_02:Milwaukee.
SPEAKER_01:You gotta put the fucking scarecrows on a killer slant.
SPEAKER_02:That guy's uh that guy is at UW Milwaukee. That's in Milwaukee when that's being. Oh, I thought you were gonna say he's like a professor. No, that whole movie takes place. I forgot about that. Oh, sorry, I just hit the mic.
SPEAKER_01:Is he a Packers fan? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:There's a scene in there where he's watching the Super Bowl.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. I know they're watching sports. Yep. With his friends. This is a documentary. Yeah. Documentary American movie.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:That's my plug. Watch it if you dare. Watch it if you dare.
SPEAKER_04:But yeah, okay. So we're saying it's not wise. For confidentiality, for vulnerability.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. I mean, I I think if you're not in the therapy space, I guess who cares, maybe?
SPEAKER_01:Right. Yeah, we're talking over therapy.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I think that's what we're thinking. I but I think it's who I don't recommend it, period. I don't think I agree with that necessarily. If you're in a meeting, who cares? Who cares?
SPEAKER_04:But you know, like I'm always thinking about like in any space, like what is it to really connect yourself with to embody self? It's to be authentic. Show your background. Telling everyone I live in this beautiful library. It's a lie.
SPEAKER_02:But what if you're in a space where people have seen your background before and or your real living space and you're just like, yeah, who cares? I'm just gonna put this up here.
SPEAKER_01:But then I think you wouldn't you wouldn't bother for novelty to play around with it, sure.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, maybe play around with it, but that's you know, for a minute or two.
SPEAKER_02:Because you're bored and you're meeting. Because Kelly's yawning. Not you. I'm saying like because someone would be bored. I just think the therapy's different. I was speaking more to the therapy space, maybe not so wise. Other spaces to me, it doesn't bother me as much, I don't think.
SPEAKER_04:Okay. Even if their body looks like a ghost in half of it, doesn't bother you.
SPEAKER_02:It's probably a one-off or something.
SPEAKER_04:It's kind of disconnecting, they look fake.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, no, that's true. And you know, the screen is already disconnecting enough because you're you're in a screen. Right.
SPEAKER_03:So I mean, if you could get a background of real life, that'd be just kind of cool.
SPEAKER_04:On the screen. You're just walking around. I'm sure they'll have that like Google Glass or something.
SPEAKER_02:I was in a meeting once where somebody put this was kind of funny, and I laughed at somebody put the background of like a weather map, almost like they were like a meteorologist. Oh, that's their background. That was kind of funny.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, there's moments where you're gonna laugh.
SPEAKER_02:Where it's kind of like, oh, that's funny, because they could like point and be like, Yeah, totally. I like it. But I don't know. I was thinking to your question, I was thinking therapy space, not uh not really wise, but other spaces maybe.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Not that it's wise, but I just I guess I just don't care as much.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, okay. Fair enough. It's neutral, maybe in some spaces.
SPEAKER_02:Neutral, yeah, neutral.
SPEAKER_04:I I tend to think it's unwise across the board, but I'm curious what you all think. Josh, what do you think?
SPEAKER_01:I'd skew unwise across the board.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Because if if really what they're doing is obscuring and diminishing human connection, in what setting is that good?
SPEAKER_02:Okay, how about this? I'm gonna throw a wrinkle in this now. What about people who put up their own physical background? But it's not a digital one. Some people hang like a sheet.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, we had that in the pod.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_01:That's obscure.
SPEAKER_03:I thought that was pretty strange to be honest.
SPEAKER_02:So okay, that's what I'm asking. But you would you rather that than digital?
SPEAKER_01:Uh same thing.
SPEAKER_02:It doesn't matter.
SPEAKER_01:But then you might ultimately be putting in the world.
SPEAKER_02:Because you made you made uh you made a, you know, a big deal about the movement thing. So the digital's out of it, and the movement is so wouldn't you prefer just the sheet?
SPEAKER_04:Well, I think the ultimate purpose of that sheet was to put in the guest's book, like a picture of it that was to be put in the book.
SPEAKER_02:No, absolutely. But I'm also I I think that there's people that maybe just put up something just for like a background.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, just to kind of I mean it's similar to just like putting your computer like against a wall, or like, you know, putting yourself against a wall or closing your blinds or closing the blinds, yeah. I mean, that's of course fine. A sheet is an interesting choice versus just like a wall that's already there, but I suppose some people might we don't have access to a blank wall. But it doesn't need to be blank.
SPEAKER_01:It's interesting. Yeah, can it be wise to to hide, to hide your identity? To play hide and seek.
SPEAKER_04:I I do think in some workplaces the less you know the better.
SPEAKER_01:The less. It could be deemed unprofessional. That's true. Yeah. To like see my background with all the clutter and the and you know, my like posters and I'm gonna stick to my guns here. Yeah, I know, because now I'm like second guessing it. Like, like, what if you're someone where it gives you like so much anxiety to for someone to see your background and you're on a work call and it's just gonna distract you the whole call. And if you blur out your background, you can kind of like be less self-conscious and more focused on what other people are saying.
SPEAKER_00:In the short term, I think, sure, you gotta get through a meeting. I'm yawning again.
SPEAKER_01:Are you are you okay? You're just really bored because we're talking about the screen.
SPEAKER_03:I just yawn a lot. There are, I think there are people who biologically just yawn a lot.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, you're just making that up right now.
SPEAKER_03:I think I'm a classic. But there are people who yawn a lot. There really are.
SPEAKER_01:It's so great. Are you a yawner? Text us. Text us if you yawn.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, if you're in the community, the yawning community, help me out here.
SPEAKER_01:We're fostering a tight-knit yawning community. Yeah, I really do yawn a lot. I do.
SPEAKER_04:And it's like I'm tired, but it's not like I'm like dragging myself through life. Like, I think I'm tired than normal now.
SPEAKER_02:Well, we've done a lot of heavy lifting in this pod, so it makes sense. We've kind of run it through.
SPEAKER_04:We've run the full day of work and I went to the dentist and got two fillings. Ooh.
SPEAKER_02:That's exhausting. That's exhausting and kind of slayed there, but not a hair out of place.
SPEAKER_03:Exactly.
SPEAKER_02:So no wonder I'm exhausted. Incredible.
SPEAKER_03:All right, that's our app. We did it again.
SPEAKER_02:As usual.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Okay, so yeah. Yeah, we did it.
SPEAKER_02:Winning. So if you want to have you watched that Charlie Sheen documentary, by the way.
SPEAKER_03:No.
SPEAKER_02:I watched the first episode. I worked with the director. I uh watched the document. On my demons.
SPEAKER_04:I gotta watch the second one, but we need to watch it. Did you like it?
SPEAKER_02:I mean it's pretty interesting. Just kind of some of the shit that he went through.
SPEAKER_03:He was invited to our wedding, the director.
SPEAKER_02:I was gonna say Charlie Sheen.
SPEAKER_03:And we invited Charlie.
SPEAKER_02:And Charlie. Um winning. Um where can you where can we find you, Kelly?
SPEAKER_04:Yes, you can find me at kkpsychotherapy.com or at my on my Instagram at at Kelly Kilgal, K-I-L-G-A-L. Um Kelly, yeah. That's my Instagram handle. Yeah. I was getting confused for a second because I've been all I'm such a TikTok queen these days. Um you can find the pod on TikTok at wisemindh pod. Check us out there. Um and how about you, John?
SPEAKER_02:Oh, you can email me at butzv. Jonathan at gmail.com. Josh.
SPEAKER_01:You can reach me as per usual at my website, joshbayerfilms.com. B-A-Y-E-R as in the aspirin, but I'm gonna go ahead and plug my music year end list. It uh I've not really I haven't even sent it to either of you yet. Yeah, we haven't gotten it amongst my first listeners. And uh I'm excited. I I'm gonna be sharing this on all the social media. I got my top 50 ready to go. I got a playlist ready to go, 50 songs on Spotify ready to go. I'm gonna you can DM me.
SPEAKER_02:Are you ready to go?
SPEAKER_01:I'm ready to go. You can send me a personal DM at my Instagram, which is uh at not quite a bear, but B-E-A-R. I know I'm being super confusing. Um anyway, you can also text me if you got my number. I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna text you. I'm gonna text you. I'm gonna send you my list. If you're listening to this, I'm gonna send you my year end list. But you know, if I forget, be like, Josh, come send it. Send it.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, or send him, drop him a line. He's ready.
SPEAKER_01:Guess who number one is? I'm not gonna tell you. You gotta text me.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, thank you everyone.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you, everyone. Thank you, Blanket Forwards. Thank you, blanket for it's for the music. You're on my year-end list, experimental version.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, check out blanket for it.
SPEAKER_01:Ooh, you're on there twice, buddy. Love it.
SPEAKER_03:Okay. All right, thanks everyone. We will be with you next week. Yeah, bye. Bye.
SPEAKER_04:Time The Wisemind Happy Hour podcast is for entertainment purposes only, not to be treated as medical advice. If you are struggling with your mental health, please seek medical attention or counseling.