what are my 4 options in DISTRESS?

OK, you've got a PROBLEM...don't you wish you had a blueprint for all of your possible responses? Well...wish no more ❤️ and one of your 4 options is "stay miserable." So trust us, we've got your bases covered.

- music by blanket forts -

Transcript

Meet The Therapists And The Mic

SPEAKER_04 0:05

Hey, welcome to the Wise Mind Happy Hour. I'm Kelly.

SPEAKER_02 0:09

And I'm John. Therapist.

SPEAKER_04 0:11

Therapists.

SPEAKER_02 0:12

Sometimes I wonder if people ever just listen to us and don't read the description and don't know who we are.

SPEAKER_04 0:18

Yeah, 100%. I I'm sure there's people who are like, I wonder what qualifies them to be. Yeah, what qualifies any of them are these people? But then also it's like if you think about the podcast space, like everyone's kind of just saying stuff.

SPEAKER_02 0:30

Oh, well, for sure. I thought you were gonna say everybody's a therapist.

SPEAKER_04 0:34

I mean, everybody's a therapist. Yeah. I did hear on a podcast once someone said there should be, at this point, there should be fewer therapists. And I was sort of like when I was hearing the argument, I was like, I can't never agree.

SPEAKER_02 0:48

I'm sorry, there should be fewer therapists in the world.

SPEAKER_04 0:51

Like, there's too many people that are like, I'm just gonna pick up a therapist.

SPEAKER_02 0:55

Kind of like a lawyer.

SPEAKER_04 0:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:57

Or an attorney.

SPEAKER_04 0:58

Well, especially because like there are so many second career therapists.

SPEAKER_02 1:03

I like them.

SPEAKER_04 1:04

You do. Tell me why.

SPEAKER_02 1:06

I just feel like you get some life experience before that's true. You just come straight into the therapy world. I mean, certainly that's what I did. And I think no, no, no. I I just came straight into the therapy world. That's what I thought. Okay. Nothing wrong with that. But I do like people who have some worldly experience. I've met some therapists who really bring different I that's such a but getting back to there's too many therapists. Yeah. Why is there such a lack of them available then?

SPEAKER_03 1:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:40

Because I feel like that's yeah, like you read about that all the time. Rural areas, right? Compensation-wise, people will only see people if they can you know. I mean, certainly there's a a lot of the population who needs it and just doesn't have the means to pay for it. So I think it's kind of to say the world has too many therapists, I don't know if that's true.

SPEAKER_04 2:02

Yeah, it's probably not literally true. Right. Maybe too many people are going like, I guess I'll just be a therapist. Like I see. I guess I'll just be a real estate agent when it's sort of like maybe it's a career you should like sort of think about. Think about and like have a bit of a knack for, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:19

And also understand what it takes, maybe. Which you don't fully maybe know that, even if you did the research, but right. That's fair. Right.

Too Many Therapists Or Not Enough?

SPEAKER_04 2:28

Yeah, because it was maybe like they were overhearing their friend tell them something their therapist has said, and they were kind of like that person's a therapist. Like, you know, it just sounded sort of like, Yeah, is this for real? And I do think there's like, I mean, this is every career. I'm sure you could hire a lawyer and you're like, This person has their license, you know, like oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:46

Like that's everywhere. I remember reading a few articles. This was maybe like a couple of years back. There were a lot of articles coming up about are people staying with their therapist too long? Or being in therapy all the time actually isn't really helping you to go out there and really implement what you're learning in therapy without that support. So I that was kind of an interesting movement of like articles of do you need to be in therapy all the time?

SPEAKER_04 3:13

It's a good question. But part of me always too with those articles, it's like, I want to suss out the source. It's like, is this blue cross blue shield saying this? You know, or it could be, or it's like, is because that there is a valid form of that question for sure. Yeah, but it's interesting because I do think like long-term work can be so helpful. It's funny, like I a little bit have that with like second career therapists. It feels a little like I just feel like almost territorial a little bit, which is silly. That's like a childish reaction, but a little where it's like, oh, interesting. So this wasn't your calling, you know, or like I see.

SPEAKER_02 3:49

You want it to be you want it to be somebody's calling. I kind of want it to be someone's calling, but that's not like they're born, not made, like a teacher. Like you want it to be a calling.

SPEAKER_04 3:59

Yeah, maybe that's more romantic in my mind. Like that.

SPEAKER_02 4:02

That's a romanticized idea of what a therapist is.

SPEAKER_04 4:05

Totally. Like this is just but I suppose it could be your calling and you kind of ignored it. Yeah. Right. Or not.

SPEAKER_02 4:14

I get a little bit more concerned about therapists who get into it because of maybe them wanting to work out some of their own issues by being a therapist. Totally.

unknown 4:27

Totally.

SPEAKER_02 4:28

I don't know how to say it gently, but yeah, sometimes you come you may come across some people in the therapy world who that was the impetus for them to become a therapist was really uh secondary gain of it would be to help themselves in that way. But yeah. Now that we don't come to insights from being a therapist, 100%. I just when that's a little bit at the forefront, it's a little bit concerning.

SPEAKER_04 4:54

I think that's one of the biggest reasons for like doing your own therapy a lot of the time. Yeah. Alongside being a therapist. Because stuff will get triggered, as you know, and it's yeah, you want a space to really look at that.

SPEAKER_02 5:08

Here's a question Is there a therapist out there who would say, I'm a therapist, never gone to therapy though, and I'm okay with that?

Should Therapists Go To Therapy?

SPEAKER_04 5:16

Well, there was someone I worked with once that was sort of this way, but since has gone. Oh, well, that's great. Which is great. And we had a really like a good like like you and I, like a direct, like I could say what was on my mind. And I was a little direct about this, where I was like, I'm sorry. What? Yeah. And one thing that he said was he was like, you know, I I journal a lot and I, you know, read poetry, and I just like burst out laughing, which is not compassionate. But I was like, it is very different to do that than sit vulnerably in a room, right? And have someone share that space with you, listen and kind of guide you toward insights. Like, it's very different. It's the whole point is like going to things you can't see.

SPEAKER_02 6:04

Now, I will say from my graduate school experience, I know there was an emphasis of if you have not been in therapy, it would probably behoove you as you are learning this craft and about to enter the world to engage in therapy. And so I would hope that that is more common than not. Not that it should be mandatory.

SPEAKER_04 6:27

Yeah, it wasn't required in my school. Yeah, it's not required. I think it's it's encouraged though. It's encouraged, and there are programs where it's required. Probably. I think like I don't know, I know there's at least one, maybe like a side D program or something.

SPEAKER_02 6:39

I mean Well, I'm sure also, not that either one of us is this, but I'm sure any analysis program will require you to be in analysis.

SPEAKER_04 6:47

Totally. Yes, maybe that's what it is. But I also, it's like, God, it's so helpful. It's like practically helpful, you know, even to just sit in the room and like notice how they start a session or how the room's set up, or like sometimes my therapist Melissa, who I saw before, I see the one I see now. You know, the things she'd say or the way she'd do something, I'd be like, oh, you can kind of do that.

SPEAKER_02 7:10

You can do that, you know.

SPEAKER_04 7:12

And then not to mention all of the processing of my life that we did. I I cannot imagine being a therapist without it, like personally. I know. I almost think it's like treat yourself. It's so incredible.

SPEAKER_02 7:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:26

Yeah. But I'm I'm of course biased, but like I don't know how I would respond to that. Right.

SPEAKER_02 7:31

If somebody if you learned that your therapist had never been well, not just mine, but just like anybody, like who's like, I'm a therapist and this and that. But then somehow it comes out, I've never been a therapy. Right. What?

SPEAKER_04 7:41

Yeah. Well, that was exactly my response. And I I feel bad. Like I probably wasn't like soft enough in my response. But the person did go and enjoyed it. Yeah. Found it useful.

SPEAKER_02 7:51

But I'm therapy, is it's enjoyable.

SPEAKER_04 7:54

It's just pure the laughs. There's no tears, it's no laughs.

SPEAKER_02 7:58

But our podcast can be for the laugh sometimes with two therapists.

SPEAKER_04 8:02

Well, you know, this is reminding me of something Josh and I actually ended up talking about. Because Josh, you were saying shout out Josh, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 8:09

We didn't introduce Josh is here. I'm always here. Always here. We love you. Omnipresent.

SPEAKER_04 8:15

Yeah. But you were saying how the non-judgmental stance episode, you couldn't stop thinking about it and thinking about judgments and and changing them, right?

SPEAKER_01 8:24

I still can't stop thinking about it. Well, you know, I I as I told you, you know, where it helped me the most.

SPEAKER_04 8:29

Remind me.

SPEAKER_01 8:30

Was editing the pod.

SPEAKER_04 8:31

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 8:32

Because the amount we're like, oh, that show, so good, so good. I love it. What do you think? And then I'm like, yeah, yeah, cut all that, get to the part where we're like describing it. Timothy Shalomet. Let's talk about his teeth. Yeah. Let's talk about his pock marks. And I'm like, yeah, that's what you want to hear. Right. And it's yeah, I've been, and I'm I've gotten a little compulsive of it. Like sometimes I'm tired of my grandpa. I was on the phone with my grandpa who's like, yeah, how's how's everything? And I was like, good, good. Like, how's Collie's family? They're good. I'm like, I'm not fucking giving him anything. Yeah, right. But no interest. But yeah, and you know, we all lean on these words good, bad. Right. Always and never can be a little more dangerous. I think good and bad are a little more like, you know, just the dud. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:13

Yeah, they can be. But but to we then you and I started talking about, you know, like therapists that you work with, like, let's say in group therapy on a team, like it's so much richer if they like hear the content or like engage with it as a guide, as a teacher, and use it, right? Like you were thinking the whole week about like how do I talk with fewer judgments and more descriptions, and you were really internalizing this concept. And you were like, okay, what did you say? You were like, I this is changing my whole life. It is. It's the same thing with going to therapy as a therapist. Like when you learn a modality, like using it in your life. Yeah. It really changes the way you practice and the way you show up as a provider, as a Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:02

I mean, I was thinking about it more this week too, not only in the therapy space I work, but certainly just in my day-to-day experiences. And yeah, it's so easy to say good, bad, yeah, right.

SPEAKER_03 10:13

Right.

SPEAKER_02 10:13

Even right after the episode, you guys texted me the picture and I said, great picture or whatever, good picture, yeah. Whatever I said. And it's like, it's just muscle memory. Totally. It's totally muscle memory.

SPEAKER_04 10:24

And it does kind of shape our relationship to things sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 10:28

Well, I'm glad it planted the seed.

SPEAKER_04 10:30

Yeah. But let's do well, I know we've talked for a while already, so we'll do like a quick check-in what's new this week.

SPEAKER_02 10:39

Nothing much. I went to the dentist before I came here.

SPEAKER_04 10:42

Was it spectacular?

SPEAKER_02 10:43

It was amazing as always. No, it was fine. Nothing new. At least they asked me this time if I wanted the goodie bag. Oh, they give you a goodie bag. And I said no.

SPEAKER_03 10:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:54

Well, it's got the toothbrush.

SPEAKER_03 10:55

Oh, yeah.

Nonjudgmental Stance And Everyday Language

SPEAKER_02 10:56

The most minuscule floss you could ever. You might get two flosses out of that little thing. Oh, okay. It's like a teardrop of like travel flows. Terrible. And usually it's got like a small toothpaste. But at least she asked. And I was like, no, I'm okay. Thank you for asking.

SPEAKER_04 11:12

And why do you say no? Because it's like seems like it's a good thing.

SPEAKER_02 11:14

Because I have a million of them at home from all the other times that I take my kids, and it's just I have enough of them in my Yeah, like you only need a million of those if you're like um now they're handy. Traveling all the time. Because especially now that my kids are having sleepovers and stuff. If the kid forgets, it's handy, but I just didn't need a usually dentists don't ask anything, they just force you to do things. Totally.

SPEAKER_04 11:36

I will say my nutrition of everything. Like asks great like about the procedure, even like oh, does that feel comfortable? And I'll be like, no. And I'll be like, okay, I'll do something else. Was it great?

SPEAKER_02 11:46

Laughing gas all the way.

SPEAKER_04 11:47

I'll be like, this thing's bothering me and I'll change it. It's really nice, actually.

SPEAKER_02 11:52

I like my dentists. It's fine, they're very efficient. They get me in, they get me out. Uh, but that was what was happening today. But the weekend was a little bit tumultuous because all of the playoff football has started, and none of the teams we were rooting for won. So the the Bears won on the Bears beat the Packers in epic fashion.

SPEAKER_04 12:13

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_02 12:14

Well, the Packers were up big the entire game, and then the Bears came back in the fourth quarter.

SPEAKER_04 12:18

That's exactly what happened in our game.

SPEAKER_02 12:20

Had this huge comeback, and then it was over. A lot of tears in my house. Uh really? Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. So there was that. Um, and then the Eagles lost the next day, which we were for the Eagles because Sarah's from Philly.

SPEAKER_04 12:38

Oh, right. Right. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 12:39

So yeah. It's kind of a bummer weekend for sports bars.

SPEAKER_04 12:43

Because your kids are living for it.

SPEAKER_02 12:45

They're living for it. Yeah. And I'm proud because on Monday, when they went back to school, and you know, one of the fears is, you know, they're an enemy territory. There's a lot of Packer fans at their school, but yeah, we live in Chicago.

SPEAKER_03 12:59

It's bears mostly.

SPEAKER_02 13:01

So some of the fear is like, what are people gonna say? And this and that. But both of my boys decided to wear Packers gear on Monday. And they got a little group together of friends to also wear Packer gear. And one of the teachers saw um my kids, and he said to them, you know, that takes real grit to do that. And so when on Monday when we came home and were having dinner, Wes told us that. And then he was like, What's grit? And we were like, Man, listen, that was a compliment. Like you you went in there after a loss, and you you're still loyal to your team. So which was a great description. So I felt like that was a moment where it was like, you know what, you're a true fan. Like you're not gonna waver.

SPEAKER_04 13:45

So yeah, not only are you in an enemy territory, but your team lost.

SPEAKER_02 13:50

Your team lost, and kids are ripping you, and you know, that type of thing, and you're still gonna stay with your team. So there's a proud daddy moment. My boys were like, No, we're wearing the Packers too.

SPEAKER_03 14:00

Oh, that's cute.

SPEAKER_02 14:01

That's so cute. Monday.

SPEAKER_04 14:03

I love it.

SPEAKER_02 14:04

So yeah, that was kind of all consuming the weekend. And my boys are just in sports right now, basketball, and Shane had a flag football game and a basketball game.

SPEAKER_04 14:12

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 14:13

We were in charge of the treats.

SPEAKER_04 14:14

What'd you bring?

SPEAKER_02 14:16

Well, Sarah did a great job because there is somebody on the team who needs gluten-free. And so she did the shopping and and got all the good stuff. Wow. I know. Like put smart food, popcorn, okay. Gluten-free.

SPEAKER_04 14:28

Love it.

SPEAKER_02 14:29

Applesauce pouches, gummy snacks, gluten-free.

SPEAKER_04 14:32

Gummy, yep.

SPEAKER_02 14:33

I mean, what else do you need?

SPEAKER_04 14:34

I mean, they have yeah, they have gluten-free Oreos, I think, too, right?

SPEAKER_02 14:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:38

Yeah.

Weekly Check‑In: Sports, Kids, Grit

SPEAKER_02 14:38

So we're those parents who are bringing like food.

SPEAKER_04 14:42

There is something so romantic about that. When you were young, was it the orange slices a lot of the time? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:47

It's as if that was the only available food.

SPEAKER_04 14:49

Right. Or the only available like fruit.

SPEAKER_02 14:51

Right. You could bring any other fruit.

SPEAKER_04 14:54

Like, no one would bring apple slices.

SPEAKER_02 14:56

Bananas.

SPEAKER_04 14:57

Or bananas. I I don't think anyone brought bananas. Strawberries. It was always those little orange slices. Or we would have like orange slices at halftime.

SPEAKER_02 15:04

Those must have been so cheap back then. I bet that's why the parents did it.

SPEAKER_04 15:07

Yeah, those little clementines. We would have like orange slices at halftime and like chips at the end or like cookies or soda.

SPEAKER_02 15:14

After my baseball games, it used to be a straight up cooler full of pop.

SPEAKER_04 15:18

I didn't have any restrictions on soda as a kid. I don't think. I don't think I have restrictions on anything. Look at you. I don't think. I don't remember them. I mean, I don't think I would like crack one open in the morning. Maybe if I tried that. Maybe if I tried that, my parents would be like slow it down. It's my morning Coke. But like my dad drinks coke in the morning. So like I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 15:39

I think my older brother did for a while. That was his caffeine because he wasn't a coffee drinker. I think he's transitioned to coffee more, but shout out Jake, who did our logo. So we're gonna get Jake on at some point.

SPEAKER_04 15:51

Yeah, I would love to have Jake on. Um we well, our big thing was we went to Michigan to visit Josh's mom for her birthday, which was nice. Nice, it was really fun.

SPEAKER_02 15:59

Um former podcast guest guest. Yeah, Lisa Bayer, which is so nice when you can picture somebody when you're telling a story.

SPEAKER_04 16:08

Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_02 16:09

Because I can picture.

SPEAKER_04 16:09

Yeah, and it was nice. We had a really fun time, and she took us, it was so nice. Of course it was her birthday weekend, and she took us to a basketball game, but we went to the Pistons Clippers game.

SPEAKER_02 16:18

What was the halftime show?

SPEAKER_04 16:20

There was like a hula hoop dancer on a ball.

SPEAKER_02 16:23

Incredible.

SPEAKER_04 16:24

Yeah, it was pretty incredible.

SPEAKER_02 16:25

I know. Some of those halftime shows are like really entertaining.

SPEAKER_04 16:28

Oh, yeah. And I was like, I can't believe she's taking another hula hoop on that thing. And then their mascot gone on it for a second.

SPEAKER_02 16:35

What is their mascot again? Hooper.

SPEAKER_01 16:38

He's a horse. He's a piston.

SPEAKER_04 16:40

Oh, he's a horse named Hooper, and he's a piston. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 16:43

A piston would just be like a car party. What you wouldn't say uh hoppa? Hoopa. It's a hoopa. It's a hoopa. We stand under the hoopa uh before the ball is tipped.

SPEAKER_02 16:53

We stand under the wheel.

SPEAKER_04 16:54

Yeah, we the hoppa. They do the job.

SPEAKER_02 16:56

Listen, the pistons are for real right now. Their team is doing great. I know you said they lost that game.

SPEAKER_04 17:00

But they were winning every single second until the literal last seconds.

SPEAKER_02 17:04

They're really good.

SPEAKER_04 17:05

They were ahead the entire game.

SPEAKER_02 17:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:09

And then Was there a great player, Cade Cunningham? He was on he was injured.

SPEAKER_02 17:14

He was injured? You didn't get to see Cade Cunningham? That's why they lost.

SPEAKER_04 17:17

I think he was injured.

SPEAKER_02 17:18

He was, I think, injured.

SPEAKER_04 17:20

Uh there were three injured players, and they still almost won.

SPEAKER_02 17:23

That shows they got some depth.

SPEAKER_04 17:25

And I will say the Clippers, like, I've never seen James Harden play or Kawhi Leonard. And I was like, the first half, I was like, they can't make a shot.

SPEAKER_02 17:32

Yeah, James Harden, and that doesn't stop him from shooting. James Harden will shoot nonstop. Right.

SPEAKER_04 17:36

But then in the second half, they turned it on.

SPEAKER_02 17:39

He just turned he just passed Shaq all-time scorer. James Harden. Really? Mm-hmm. Probably.

SPEAKER_04 17:45

He's the all-time scorer all time, all-time.

SPEAKER_02 17:47

No, no, no, no. LeBron James is. Nobody's gonna catch LeBron. LeBron's over like 40,000 points. Well, Kareem Abdul Jabbar held it for a long time.

SPEAKER_03 17:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 17:56

And then LeBron eclipsed it. No, I mean, LeBron's just played for so long. Nobody's gonna catch him. Steph Curry. Yeah, he's up there. He's up there, but he's not quite. He might be top 20.

SPEAKER_04 18:06

And who's the other guy I'm thinking of? Kevin Durant.

SPEAKER_02 18:09

Yeah, Durant's up there too. He's up there too. I think Carl Malone might actually be third. I don't know. We need to call back.

SPEAKER_04 18:14

What about Michael Jordan?

SPEAKER_02 18:16

You know.

SPEAKER_04 18:16

He wasn't?

SPEAKER_02 18:17

I mean, he was a prolific scorer, but he I don't think he's top five.

SPEAKER_04 18:22

Really?

SPEAKER_02 18:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:24

That surprises me.

SPEAKER_01 18:26

Because he can pass the fucking ball.

unknown 18:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:29

But then wouldn't he have a lot of points then?

SPEAKER_02 18:31

No, that's assists. All right. You know, it's almost as if we need some technology to look this up. All-time leading scorers NBA.

SPEAKER_04 18:38

All-time leading scores or we could call You're just messing with me.

SPEAKER_01 18:41

What in what way?

SPEAKER_04 18:43

He reversed what an assist and what a basket is.

SPEAKER_01 18:45

Wait, did I just get mixed up? If you pass the ball, you're gonna score less. That is true. If you pass the ball, you are gonna score less.

SPEAKER_04 18:53

And then Michael Jordan never passed it, so he would score more.

SPEAKER_02 18:55

So he should score more. Didn't I feel like he was a good passer? Okay, here we go. Really? According to ESPN.com.

SPEAKER_03 19:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 19:02

All right.

SPEAKER_03 19:02

Our Bible.

SPEAKER_02 19:04

LeBron James, number one.

SPEAKER_03 19:06

Okay, fair.

SPEAKER_02 19:07

Kreem Abdul Jabbar, number two. Carl Malone, three. Kobe Bryant, four. Okay, Michael Jordan five.

SPEAKER_04 19:14

Oh, okay. But still, I would think he would be higher than that.

SPEAKER_02 19:17

But this just shows that Michael Jordan is 10,000 points below LeBron.

SPEAKER_04 19:21

Whoa.

SPEAKER_02 19:22

But LeBron's played for 21 years.

SPEAKER_04 19:24

Oh, oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 19:26

But Michael Jordan played a lot of years, too. Then Dirk Novitsky.

SPEAKER_04 19:29

Dirk. We love Dirk.

SPEAKER_02 19:30

Kevin Durant is seven, so he's still playing. He can still move up. Okay. Wilt Chamberlain.

SPEAKER_04 19:35

Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_02 19:36

James Harden, number nine, who he just moved in front of Shaq, and Shaq is 10. He rounds out the 10th.

SPEAKER_04 19:43

Wow. I hope our listeners are on the edge of their seat.

SPEAKER_02 19:47

I told you. You know, this always comes back to what I originally said. It's gonna be about the NBA.

SPEAKER_04 19:51

Yeah. I mean, you can't you can't fight the city hall.

SPEAKER_02 19:54

That's right. I know Josh Burkholz wants it to be about the NBA.

NBA Tangents, Halftime Adjustments, And Humor

SPEAKER_04 19:57

Totally. We basically had an entire episode about. What was it called? The the pistons of that time were the bad boy boys. The bad boys.

SPEAKER_02 20:05

And Rodman and Kim Jong ill or something like that.

SPEAKER_04 20:10

Oh my god. So yeah, we we did that over the weekend, which was fun. Um we did. We got a Brawurst. How was it? Pretty good.

SPEAKER_01 20:24

Got the works.

SPEAKER_04 20:25

Not really memorable, but good enough.

SPEAKER_01 20:27

We got a really pleasant interaction with the cashier.

SPEAKER_04 20:30

Yeah, yeah, sure's nice. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:31

No cash though, right? Cashless. I think it was cashless, yeah. All those stadiums are cashless now.

SPEAKER_04 20:36

Yeah, it was fun. I spilled my water all over the guy next to me. Yeah, truly. I spilled it all over the guy next to me, and he was pissed. And he wouldn't accept my apology. He was like, I was like, oh, I'm so sorry. And he was like, oh that was his only response. I felt so bad I couldn't focus. I was like, it was water. Sit with that. I know. No apology. And it's like the the cup holder was this shallow, like one inch shallow. And they don't give you a cap because it's like dangerous at the game. They take the cap from you.

SPEAKER_02 21:07

Was he like sighing the rest of the game? No, he he was like drunk or something.

SPEAKER_04 21:11

He's just like he just was like, for one second he was pissing, he wouldn't take my apology. And I was kind of like, it is weird to not accept someone's apology. But I guess people get so mad if you spell on them.

SPEAKER_02 21:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:23

It's upsetting. I can admit.

SPEAKER_02 21:25

And it's like he never has to see you again. So does that lean you into, well, maybe I should fake apology or accept the apology, or because I'm not gonna see them again. I'm just gonna be authentic. Yeah, like why bother? I'm actually mad at you.

SPEAKER_04 21:37

And Josh, you did a good job of being like, because he later was just like yelling at the players on the court, and you were like, I think he's fine. And I was like, okay, and I could let it go.

SPEAKER_01 21:45

You were worried that he was like, It just reminded me of the zone feeling down and out.

SPEAKER_04 21:50

It was just like hard to sit next to someone like that you feel like hates you.

SPEAKER_01 21:53

No, do you remember what he kept yelling throughout the game?

SPEAKER_04 21:55

He was yelling, why is a certain player in the game? He said, Why is Batoom in the game? Oh, Nicholas Batoom? Yelling that out.

SPEAKER_02 22:03

Wait, who they played the Clippers? Is Batoon on the Clippers or is he uh he's a clipper?

SPEAKER_04 22:08

Yeah, he was yelling that loud enough for whoever that guy is to hear it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:12

Well that's cool as you saw Kawhi Leonard play. Yeah. I've never seen him live. It was cool. James Harden, the beard, fear the beard.

SPEAKER_04 22:18

Yeah. It was cool to see them because they're like, I never really get to see like superstars because the Bulls never really have them. Although I and I did see the Bulls play the wait, what's Mark Cuban's team? The Mavericks. The Mavericks. I saw the Bears. The Bulls. Uh Luca. So Luca.

SPEAKER_02 22:37

However, he was, you know, this big I had really bad seats.

SPEAKER_04 22:41

So it was like it didn't feel like it.

SPEAKER_02 22:43

I saw the Bulls play Mavericks a couple years ago, maybe.

SPEAKER_04 22:46

Yeah, those tickets are expensive.

SPEAKER_02 22:48

Yeah, they're very expensive.

SPEAKER_04 22:49

Especially when Luca was on the team.

SPEAKER_02 22:51

I also get to see Kobe once. Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_04 22:56

I mean, seeing LeBron was a good one. It was great.

SPEAKER_02 22:57

I've never seen LeBron live. But I got to see Kobe. That was cool.

SPEAKER_04 23:02

Whoa. I know. That would be really cool.

SPEAKER_02 23:05

It was cool. It was an experience.

SPEAKER_03 23:07

I mean Is he big?

SPEAKER_02 23:10

He just like 6'7, maybe something like that. 6'7. 6'7.

SPEAKER_00 23:20

Come on. Come on, John.

SPEAKER_01 23:23

Are we past this? Come on. Are we past this?

SPEAKER_02 23:27

Not letting one circle. That's cool. No, I lost my train of thought. That's the point. I think he's one of those players who kind of, it's not that he's big. You can just tell he is a step ahead in so many different ways in the game. Like he's just so much, not so much because they're all so good, but he's just on another level. Like than others. Like he like savvy. Yeah. Yeah. His game knows what's going on.

SPEAKER_04 23:58

I will say it did not appear that way with these two superstars. Kawhi. James Harden. I was like, he looks like he's just loafing around the thing, but he's making shots.

SPEAKER_02 24:06

A lot of mileage on James Harden.

SPEAKER_04 24:08

Same with when I saw Luca, even though he was tiny because I had bad seats. I was like, he doesn't really look savvy out there. But I think he is. Yeah. He just doesn't, he kind of hides it. Because he's kind of like lumbering.

SPEAKER_02 24:22

You know? Totally. He's not graceful by any way.

SPEAKER_04 24:25

Right, right. Whereas, like, I thought I always felt like Dirk was because my younger brother was obsessed with Dirk. So I've I've seen him so much. He was kind of graceful. Like it was sort of he had a fadeaway. And like I like Steph Curry. He's pretty graceful.

SPEAKER_02 24:41

Steph Curry.

SPEAKER_04 24:42

Anyway, we're gonna get another NBA. I know it's because we went to the game.

SPEAKER_02 24:47

I love it.

SPEAKER_04 24:47

And now we're like, of course, I go once and I like think I'm an expert. But it was fun.

SPEAKER_02 24:53

You are an expert.

SPEAKER_04 24:54

Well, I said to Josh, I cursed the team for sure. Because I was like, they were blowing past the clippers, and I was like, you kind of want a little bit of a closer game than this. So in my mind, I was kind of like, I hope these clippers start scoring a little. Like, you want something interesting. Yeah. Cut to they lose.

SPEAKER_02 25:11

Cut to it's all your fault.

SPEAKER_04 25:13

I mean, absolutely. Yeah. And Josh.

SPEAKER_02 25:15

No wonder that guy didn't accept your apology. Right.

SPEAKER_04 25:17

He might have heard that.

SPEAKER_02 25:18

You curse them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:20

And I said to Josh, this is like a fun exercise. Like at halftime, I was like, if you were the coach of each team, what would you go in there and say based on what you saw in this first half?

SPEAKER_02 25:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:29

I feel like it's kind of a funny thing, even if you don't know the sport. Like, what would you say? Well, I was sort of like joking. I was like, Clippers, I was like, maybe we should start like thinking about making some baskets, like getting a single rebound. They were not catching a single rebound.

SPEAKER_02 25:44

It's funny that the thought is maybe we should think about it.

SPEAKER_04 25:46

As if like let's just consider this.

SPEAKER_02 25:49

As if the first half they hadn't thought about that once.

SPEAKER_04 25:51

It did look that way.

SPEAKER_02 25:53

No, they probably got their ass reamed out. Or they were just like, let's just phone in the second half, get on the plane, get back to California.

SPEAKER_04 26:00

Yeah, but they didn't. I the coach must have said something. Yeah, it must have motivated them. Yeah, because literally they got on the court and it was a different game.

SPEAKER_02 26:08

Different game.

SPEAKER_04 26:08

Which is kind of cool in itself, you know, to like regroup. I mean, it's almost like therapy. You can you regroup.

SPEAKER_02 26:17

It's like, so let's select taken in a different direction.

SPEAKER_04 26:20

Like we can turn this around. I feel like I'm doing that all the time.

SPEAKER_02 26:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:24

But I did watch the Golden Globes also, too. Oh, you did? I didn't watch it. I mean, I by watching it, it was we watched some of the red carpet, and I wanted to see the uh monologue.

SPEAKER_04 26:37

How was that?

Golden Globes, Podcasts, And Pop Culture

SPEAKER_02 26:38

It was funny. I laughed. I thought it was really funny. And um, she's funny. Tiana Taylor won for Oh nice one battle after another. Oh, that's great. Yeah, it was great, and then it won a few other awards as well.

SPEAKER_04 26:50

Okay. So Jesse Buckley didn't win there.

SPEAKER_02 26:52

Who's Jesse Buckley?

SPEAKER_04 26:53

She was the one in Hamnet.

SPEAKER_02 26:55

I don't think it's Irish. Yeah, it must have been Tiana Taylor. Um Paul Thomas Anderson won for screenplay.

SPEAKER_03 27:00

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 27:01

And I forget what else they won on that. But Best Picture? Maybe it won Best Picture 2.

SPEAKER_03 27:08

I could see that.

SPEAKER_02 27:08

But Benizio didn't win. Sean Penn didn't win.

SPEAKER_04 27:12

Yeah, Sean Penn's getting like no love.

SPEAKER_02 27:14

I don't know. She made some joke about how she was like, and you knew where this joke was going right out of jump street. She was like, you know what I love? I love how everybody in Hollywood's like trying to look younger. And Sean Penn, you're just like trying to look like I don't know what she said. She said like something like, You're trying to look like an old handbag. And they showed him in there, and he's all like his hair. It's all crazy. And then I read an article that he just started smoking at the award indoors. Of course.

SPEAKER_04 27:41

Like, of course. Yeah, he has like the definition of like grizzled.

SPEAKER_02 27:45

That was a funny joke.

SPEAKER_04 27:46

Yeah, that's good.

SPEAKER_02 27:47

And then she pointed out George Clooney too, and she was like, you know, she was like, I love you so much, but I'm also having like some issues. My Nespresso machine is making like really grainy coffee. Do you do you have a fix for that?

SPEAKER_04 27:59

Oh my god, in crack because he owns it, right?

SPEAKER_02 28:01

Or and he's in all the commercials.

SPEAKER_04 28:03

Yes, or yeah, yes, he's in the commercial.

SPEAKER_02 28:04

So that was agree. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 28:06

I think I was getting a grainy crime.

SPEAKER_02 28:11

Did you see that uh they finally had a podcast category in the Golden Globes?

SPEAKER_04 28:15

Yes, yes, and Smartless must have won it, did they?

SPEAKER_02 28:18

They did not. Amy Polar won it.

SPEAKER_04 28:21

Wow, yeah. I like her pod. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:22

Were Doughboys nominated?

SPEAKER_02 28:24

No. This was you could tell by the nominations that this was like, oh yeah, this is just like Hollywood people nominating Hollywood. Okay. Like this was not there was no depth to the podcast category. Totally. She did kind of have a funny speech though, where she was like, uh kind of ripped NPR. She was like, an NPR, could you guys like you know ratchet it up a little bit, like and start doing your job? Or I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 28:47

Yeah, how could NPR not win that?

SPEAKER_02 28:49

Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 28:49

Even podcasting since the dawn of time.

SPEAKER_02 28:52

Or how could not the whole category just be NPR podcasts? Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_04 28:57

Mark Marin didn't retire till this year.

SPEAKER_02 28:58

I don't want to rip other pods, but I do.

SPEAKER_04 29:02

Oh I felt like I saw, of course, they always on social media show the red carpet. I feel like there were some interesting outlook choices. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:10

Yeah, I yeah, I liked a lot of the looks. I don't get into the fashion as much, but I do. Anyway.

Main Topic Begins: Four Options In Distress (DBT)

SPEAKER_04 29:19

Anyway, we could go on for the show. We should probably get into our topic. Yeah, let's do it.

SPEAKER_02 29:23

All right. So who's gonna win the NBA this year?

SPEAKER_04 29:26

Yeah, predictions. Predictions. That's the episode.

SPEAKER_02 29:29

We're doing the over-under on the next week's games. Yeah. Not Bears. The Bears are gonna win the NBA. The Bears are gonna win the NBA. That's how good they are this year. They're so good that we're gonna win the NBA Stanley Cup. Um okay. I'm looking at my notes here. What are we talking about?

SPEAKER_04 29:48

We are topic today is our topic today is the four options in distress, otherwise known sometimes as the five options in distress.

SPEAKER_02 29:57

From a dbt perspective. Yeah, from a dbt perspective, right. Um dialectical behavior therapy perspective.

SPEAKER_04 30:03

And yeah, we'll talk about it from the DBT perspective, but obviously you could take kind of pick and choose from this, what you find resonant.

SPEAKER_00 30:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:12

But yeah, let's talk about these four options. And depending on the manual, the DBT manual that you're consulting, what edition of it? It'll be either four options or five options. And they're they're really the same thing. One of the options is split into two later on.

SPEAKER_02 30:25

So is your understanding if somebody is really struggling with something, they really only have four options. I'll advise for the layperson. Now, yeah, that doesn't mean that these uh four options don't have a lot of things, they're like umbrella terms that have a multitude of things we can choose from, but it is your understanding for the layperson that it's like if you really wanted to come up with okay, here's what I'm gonna do in this situation, that will fall into one of these four categories.

SPEAKER_04 30:58

You know, I'm yet to find a situation where I've tried this and it didn't work.

SPEAKER_02 31:03

Fall into one of that.

SPEAKER_04 31:04

So I think yes. Until I find something where I'm like, this is totally outside the realm of this. Yeah. I'm gonna say yes. What about you?

SPEAKER_02 31:12

I think so. And they are broad enough. They're very they're broad enough, and I think as therapists, we're pretty good at like getting it kind of back to one of the options. Right. Not that it's you know, wordplay or something like that, or like we're we're tricking people, but I do think they are broad enough where it's like, yeah, that might fall into this category. So totally. So my understanding is you're faced with a situation, you're faced with a problem.

SPEAKER_03 31:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:36

And is your understanding that these go in this order, or it doesn't really matter the order? Because I've had people talk about, well, no, there's an order to these. And I was always under the impression that it doesn't necessarily have to go in any order.

Option One: Problem Solving With Values

SPEAKER_04 31:49

I don't think it does. However, I do think option one is helpful to like look at it, to consider it first.

SPEAKER_02 31:58

Okay, so option one being problem solving, yeah, make a change. Exactly. Making a change.

SPEAKER_04 32:05

Right. So it's like I always use the like very extreme example of if you're like swimming in a shark tank and there's a ladder, like take the ladder. Take the ladder, you know, take get out. So that's how you manage your distress there is you change it. You change out of there. Now, if there isn't a ladder or it's not a shark tank, it's uh AP test or something, and you're feeling that distress. You know, if it's distress ahead of the test, problem solving could be studying and preparing to change your approach to it. But also like that may not change anything, and then you can move on to the other options.

SPEAKER_02 32:45

And this this is where I think it brings in a lot of other things because what are problems that people try to solve that aren't actually solvable problems? Totally. So I think this can feed into a lot of very fruitful conversations because if people come to us and say, Well, my anxiety is the problem, yeah. I need to solve my anxiety.

SPEAKER_03 33:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:07

Or if people are so fused with the idea that I've solved my anxiety by doing this behavior, it's actually the behavior that's the problem, not the anxiety that's the problem.

SPEAKER_03 33:16

Right.

SPEAKER_02 33:17

Right. So I think it's an interesting first option because there are a lot of problems that we can solve. And then there's a lot of things that people come to us in therapy that are not like quote unquote solvable.

SPEAKER_03 33:28

Right.

SPEAKER_02 33:29

So that's where maybe the making the change, it's like, how are we changing when this problem arises? Yeah. Or preparing for it.

SPEAKER_04 33:37

Like yeah. Yeah, meaning like change ourselves.

SPEAKER_02 33:41

Kind of. Yeah. It's like that problem's gonna be there.

SPEAKER_03 33:45

Right.

SPEAKER_02 33:45

And here's how the problem solving could be coping ahead for it or not engaging in that behavior that's actually not useful for us that we think that we think is solving it.

SPEAKER_04 33:56

Oh, interesting. I like that.

SPEAKER_02 33:58

You know, I remember a mentor saying it's not the problems that are the problems, it's the solutions that are the problems, right?

SPEAKER_04 34:05

Totally. Well, yeah, that's such an intro. We could, oh my, it's like this is such a rich topic. We could stay on even we could do a whole pod episode on option one. Cause like there are problems that you do want to apply solutions to. You know, if you're noticing financial anxiety and you look at your bank account, you consider what you can do about this, and you can get a job where you earn more money that meets your demands. Like, you do want to problem solve for sure. And there's like I remember I used to use this example of like I uh got invited to a wedding where I only knew the bride and groom and I didn't get a plus one. This is before I knew Josh. And I was like pretty anxious about going and not knowing anyone. And it's like problem solving, quote unquote, could have been me just RSVPing. No. The issue with that for me to bring an act that was not aligned with my value. So although technically that option is there, it's not the right one for me because it isn't value aligned.

SPEAKER_03 35:13

Right.

SPEAKER_04 35:14

But it's like, could you problem solve elements of the situation, change yourself, change your approach to it, your stance with it? Definitely. And we could call that option three or option one. But so often when you're in distress, if you even have the wherewithal to go through these options, like problem solving is unavailable to you because you probably would have done the obvious thing, taking the ladder out of the shark tank. Shout out to Mark Cuban, second reference of this pod.

SPEAKER_02 35:41

Mark Cuban. Well, I mentioned Kevin O'Leary last week. So yeah. Who's next? Barbara Corcoran. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 35:48

I don't know the other one's name. Um, you know, it seems like Marsha includes this, Marsha Lenahan includes this option to like like with all the options, it is out there, it is an option, and there's many cases in which you can take it. Yeah. And you want to be mindful if you do. Like, is this really hang on? It's like problem solving is even like kind of a complex term, like to solve something.

SPEAKER_02 36:15

Yeah. And to be fair, I think there are very concrete things that when we're talking with the people we're working with are not obvious, but there's excuse making, there's reason giving, and it's kind of like we just have to do this, right? We just so I think that problem solving, though it can be it is an interesting term, and I think there are times in therapy where we do kind of have to guide people into this is just something we gotta do, right? To like move forward with something else. Totally. But I think that can be a modeling of like, yeah, these are things we can take care of right now, right? And maybe some of these larger things are not like quote unquote problems to solve, they're ongoing issues that we need to maybe move into one of the other options.

SPEAKER_03 36:58

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 36:58

We just pass through a bunch of holidays, like somebody coming to us and saying, like, oh, my brother's the problem, like he's the problem. And it's like, well, you're not gonna solve your brother.

unknown 37:07

Right.

Option Two: Change Your Interpretation

SPEAKER_02 37:08

You know, like you're labeling him a problem. It's like you're not gonna solve your brother. Right. It's like, how are you gonna maybe change again, make a change around him? And maybe that's the problem solve we're looking at, you know. Right. Which really leads into the next one, which is change your interpretation. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 37:24

Number two, change your interpretation.

SPEAKER_02 37:28

I like this. Wow.

SPEAKER_04 37:29

Yeah, I love this one. Yeah, what do you like about it?

SPEAKER_02 37:31

Well, I like it because I I try to lean people in to you don't have to, I remind people you don't have to agree with the interpretation. You don't even have to buy into the interpretation.

SPEAKER_03 37:42

Yeah, true.

SPEAKER_02 37:43

I think there is power in being able to step back from something you're going through and view it through a different lens.

SPEAKER_03 37:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:52

And you may find something there that's really useful for you. Right. And by even changing your interpretation, there might be a way for you to get back to problem solving. So I really like change your interpretation because I think it takes people outside of maybe some of the narratives that they've really fused with or told themselves, or just like the way that they view the world, it's a way to maybe step outside of that and just try to shift it a little bit. Yeah. So I really like change your interpretation.

SPEAKER_04 38:19

Totally. I like it too. And I like that point that just exploring alternative viewpoints like defuses you from the one, the suffering one. And like, I I think it's fair enough, like on your own to name the current interpretation, right? Like maybe with the wedding invite, I was like, this is terrible. Like, I was judging it. Yeah, this is terrible. I'm gonna look so stupid being by myself and not knowing anyone.

SPEAKER_00 38:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 38:49

And if I don't explore other interpretations, it's a lot easier to fuse with and and just fully believe the one that is coming up. And if I pause and say, like, I wonder how another person might have a different opinion of this or approach to this, you know, like someone might think of it as like, okay, this is a real challenge of my like social skills. Could that be interesting? Could that be fortifying? Could, you know. Right. I'm I'm always feeling, you know, when I talk with my clients about like your self-worth is on the other side of your fear. You know, could it be a self-worth exercise, you know, to go and be your full authentic self and meet people and be vulnerable in that way and just have that experience? Like definitely. When I say it like that, I'm like, oh yeah, I could totally see that. And even just that, like, expands your options for what you can do and separates you from some like defined negative circumstance.

SPEAKER_02 39:51

I try to use this a lot uh with my kids, and I know I bring them up so much, and I feel like when you're in the thick of parenting, it's very easy for me to. To lose sight of like, well, what's their interpretation as an eight-year-old of this situation?

SPEAKER_03 40:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:06

They might be acting this way because they're an eight-year-old. Yeah. And developmentally, though it's annoying to me, or something, like that's age appropriate. And like they don't know any other ways of being in this moment. So it's so hard to do in those, like, especially more heightened moments. But I try to do it a lot to change my interpretation specifically to what how are they interpreting this?

SPEAKER_03 40:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:30

What was it like for me when I was a 10-year-old or an eight-year-old? Like, what was I going through? Right. Right. Like, what did it feel like when you don't have much control over anything in your life? And people are telling you to do things all the time, right? And it's like, oh, okay. Like, I need to maybe cool it a little bit and like keep telling them to do things. It's like I need to be able to step outside of that. And sometimes that does bring down my distress of like they're not doing this on purpose. They're doing this because they're how they're seeing the world, you know. Um, so hard to do though.

SPEAKER_04 40:58

Or yeah, like it's even serving a function of some kind, like everything.

SPEAKER_02 41:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 41:04

Just like reminding yourself of that or considering that idea can like soften the moment a little bit instead of like this is just bad. Right. Or like the guy I spilled on, it's like I'm like wanting him to consider other options about me.

SPEAKER_02 41:19

But change your interpretation of me. Of me. Your neighbor at the game. We're neighbors.

SPEAKER_04 41:24

But it's like he might have been like, oh, this idiot doesn't know what they're doing. But like maybe that's not true. You know, maybe it was like genuinely an accident, and I am genuinely sorry, and it's water, so it'll dry. It wasn't that much. You know, it's okay. Or like, oh, he could validate his own, like, I'm uncomfortable, my the bottom of my pants are wet, you know, whatever. This person didn't intend to do this, you know, whatever. Like dialectical statements can go in here too, you know, bridging multiple elements of the moment. Or maybe he hasn't thought about it since. I I think that's probably the most likely thing. Yeah. He was also like pounding drinks. So that helps.

SPEAKER_02 42:09

So maybe he has no recollection or memory. That's the interpretation.

SPEAKER_04 42:13

Like not even on the radar. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:16

But I think change your interpretation is really, I mean, don't you think it's at the crux of what we do as a therapist? I mean, whether we're doing it literally in this way with somebody concretely like, okay, well, let's look at the four options. Or, you know, when people come to us with things, it's like, okay, yeah, I hear that. And yeah, what else might be going on? You know, like we wouldn't have to do. What else might be true?

SPEAKER_04 42:37

Yeah. Or even, you know what? I like that you said that. Like it's at the, I mean, it is at the core, the crux of everything we do. We can change our interpretation such that we explore a different one or multiple different ones, or like even explore changing it such that we let go of all interpretation. And more of that, like pure, mindful, sensory, like meditation. Yeah. You know, let go of interpretation altogether and be in the feeling state. It really is at the crux of everything. And yeah, like what we talked about last week, the non-judgmental stance comes into that. Can you can you interpret this situation with zero judgments, more descriptions? You know, I got this wedding invite and I felt this squeeze of anxiety about standing at the cocktail party and not having anyone to talk to and feeling envisioned feeling embarrassed. I wanted to avoid that feeling. I do want to avoid that feeling. I have a lot more clarity on like, am I kind of in the business of avoiding my feelings? Especially if it's with an activity that's value aligned, like being at my good friend's wedding. No, I'm not in the business of doing that. That's not right for me. That's not who I am. Anyway, we'll probably cover that option.

Option Three: Radical Acceptance

SPEAKER_02 43:56

It's a great option. Yeah. Third option, radical acceptance. We love this. We love it. Call back to a previous episode. I guarantee we've talked about it, right?

SPEAKER_04 44:05

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Totally turning the mind. I think we have this tape. Yeah, we have right jobs. Check that tape. Has radical acceptance been itself a topic? I think it is.

SPEAKER_01 44:14

Well, we did acceptance.

SPEAKER_04 44:16

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 44:17

So maybe we're But we but in acceptance, I feel like we referred to it as radical acceptance more often than not. I think you're right. Got it. Anyway.

SPEAKER_04 44:26

Basically, this is when you're in distress, like turning the mind all at once to allow the situation to exist.

SPEAKER_02 44:35

And the resistance to it and not accepting it really creates more pain and suffering. Right. And so it doesn't mean we're condoning the situation or the distress that's coming up. It doesn't mean we're okay with it. Yeah. It doesn't mean we like it. It's kind of being open to it as this is the reality of the situation as it is.

SPEAKER_03 44:56

Right.

SPEAKER_02 44:56

And there was a quote by Tara Brock, who we love as well. We can acknowledge the situation by saying to ourselves, yes, this too. This too is a part of our current reality. It is what it is, at least for now. And so I like that. I like the idea of again, we're not condoning it, and this is what it is in this moment, right? It brings us back to this moment. And I think it can be a way for us to develop our distress tolerance, right? Yeah. I mean, radical acceptance is a distress tolerance skill. So instead of resisting these realities so hard, which does create the suffering, increases there's something wrong with us or judgmental stance or all those things, it can open us up to it.

SPEAKER_04 45:40

I like this too. Yes, this too. It's sort of that opening up of your energy to the reality. As opposed to like you said, non-acceptance or like resisting it, pushing against, you know, and and like we all do this, that kind of like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. This can't be happening, you know, that energy in one way or another, or even doing things that are resisting of your current situation. And can you like slow down and even if you don't like the situation or it's like excruciating? Yes, this too is here. If I open to it, I can problem solve within the situation what's changeable.

SPEAKER_02 46:24

Exactly. And then that brings you back to option one. Yes. Right. It kind of sets up that what does Marshall Lenahan say? It turns you turn the mind towards the path and it's walking down right the path. Yes. So it's like, okay, I've accepted my brother's a problem, right? Or I'm in these situations where I feel like my brother's a problem. And okay, I've accepted that he's not gonna change. How am I gonna navigate that? What am I gonna do to change when I'm around him?

SPEAKER_04 46:52

Or yeah, what am I, I, I gonna do with this reality.

SPEAKER_02 46:57

Because there's a lot of times we accept that changes need to be made, but we're not doing anything.

SPEAKER_04 47:02

And we're not like whole body embracing bodying, yeah. Yeah. And you can, I mean, I I was talking about this with the client, like you can embrace something you don't agree with in the literal sense, right? Like wrap your arms around something, even if you don't like it, you can engage in that action to really fully wrap your arms around a reality, like and step into it, live in it is important to like do anything with the reality. Yeah, if you push against it, you're kind of more stuck than anything. For sure. Yeah, frees you up to go to option one.

SPEAKER_02 47:40

I was gonna say problem one for problem one, option one or option two, yeah, or or option two, and then there's number four, which a lot of people love.

SPEAKER_04 47:49

Number four, yeah. Number four is a little spicy.

SPEAKER_02 47:52

Stay miserable, yeah.

Option Four And Five: Stay Miserable Or Make It Worse

SPEAKER_04 47:54

Do nothing different and stay miserable. Man, who doesn't love that? Yeah, who hasn't done that? We've all done, we've all done that. Just stay miserable, just stay miserable.

SPEAKER_02 48:05

I think it though can be very sometimes validating in a not a weird way, that's a judgment, but it can be validating, maybe it's create some dissonance for somebody to hear, well, no, you still have that choice. You could you don't have to change. I'm not telling you to change, right? And sometimes that can feel validating to people in the therapy space where it's like, okay, you're not pressuring me to do anything. It's like, yeah, you can stay where you're at. That's an option. That is definitely an option for you to stay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 48:34

And it's your choice. Like, let's lay on the table all the options. Like you get to choose. So if you do nothing different and you do stay miserable, like just notice that you're choosing that. And you can. And there are these other options as well when you want it, if and when you want to not choose this one and experience something else. Stay miserable. Just go ahead, stay miserable. And sometimes it's like just sit in the shit. Yeah. I mean, I did this today for sure. I forgot to do something and I was really lamenting it. Just staying miserable. And I really saying, like, it's bad. This is a good one. Can't get that Apple ID. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:16

Are we still on that one?

SPEAKER_04 49:17

Oh god, the Apple ID. Actually, you know what's funny? My on my laptop, it did ask for basically like a version of my Apple ID. And I like froze. Like, am I about to go back into the tunnel of this?

SPEAKER_02 49:29

The Apple ID tunnel.

SPEAKER_04 49:31

Yeah. Um, but I like slowed myself down and then like looked up the password. I like wrote down a bunch of passwords this time in a secret location. Oh, good. And yes. That post-it right there. But yeah, it's just this post that's in the open. Um, but yeah, so you know, it's easy to choose this option. And I think resisting reality, like it's an illusion, and that illusion sometimes is comforting. Like I could change it, like I could get out of it.

SPEAKER_02 49:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 49:58

I can extract myself from this if I kind of just like push against it.

SPEAKER_02 50:02

Well, I think sometimes for people staying miserable looks like, well, I'm not gonna change until other people change, or other people, there's too many external things that need to happen before I make any type of movement. And yeah, that's so true. Keeps us miserable. Right. Because it's like, well, we can't change other people. It's highly unlikely other people are just gonna change, or the situation's just gonna change on its own, and that is gonna keep us stuck.

SPEAKER_04 50:29

Uh, this person needs to change. It's not me doing this. Yeah. In my own therapy, I'm good at noticing like who I'm here to talk about is me for the most part. Like, but like the minute I step outside that office, like, there's definitely times where I'm like, they're the problem, this other person, right? You know, like in my head, I will do that a lot. They are the problem. You know, it's kind of like I don't need to do anything, and it's really making me stay in option four. Yeah. Or it's like, I don't know what their problem is. And it no matter the situation, like it's so useful to think like, where am I and how do I approach it? And you could say, you know what, I'm gonna choose option four. I'm just gonna bitch about it. Yeah, you know, or do the same thing. But man, to notice you're doing it is huge, I think.

SPEAKER_02 51:18

I agree.

SPEAKER_04 51:19

Kind of the second I notice I'm choosing option four, I'm like, oh, okay. I get it now. I'm just suffering. Yeah, I am just suffering. And then you kind of I I automatically turn to the other options in that case.

SPEAKER_02 51:34

Now, this is where there might be an option five, right? Which kind of falls subset for me under staying miserable, but it's making the situation, it's you always have the option to make the situation worse. Right.

SPEAKER_04 51:46

I sort of get the feeling that maybe Marsha got like a little bit of annoying negative feedback from people of like it doesn't fully capture everything. Yeah, maybe in option four. So she like tacked on an option five, or maybe just in her own organic research, she decided it was necessary. But yeah, it's like act in a way to make the situation worse.

SPEAKER_02 52:04

Yeah. Self-sabotage behaviors, self, you know, if you're thinking of self-harming or you know, those types of things. So staying miserable can look maybe and that can make things worse, but there are very specific behaviors that immediately like totally we've made things worse total for ourselves.

SPEAKER_04 52:20

I'm thinking again about that wedding invite. It's like staying miserable could be like complaining in my head about it, judging it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:28

And then going a step further could be like threatening your friend and being like, if you don't give me an and one, I'm not coming.

Using The Framework When You Feel Stuck

SPEAKER_04 52:35

Well, I'm not your friend anymore. Yeah, I'm not coming. Which would make things worse, totally make things worse, like self-destructive, destructive of the relationship. Yeah. You're kicking it up a notch with option five. But yeah, those are those are the five options. And as we're saying these, the four options, as we're saying these, I'm like, you know, I'm working this in all the time, but it is so nice sometimes to like pause things and really talk about these as options and as a personal practice. Right. I'm gonna be thinking about these for myself this week. Definitely.

SPEAKER_02 53:11

And I think it's also when you're in a space, a therapy space where someone feels very stuck. Sometimes this can be something very nice to like anchor to and say, okay, we feel stuck here. What are our options? Yeah. Because sometimes it feels like I don't have any, or I have too many. Yeah. So this is a way for us, well, let's go through this. Like, how would we problem solve? Is this even something to problem solve? If not, okay, well, then what are some of different interpretations we could take on this, right? So it could actually move that constipated feeling of like in therapy where it's like, well, what do we do with this? There's no, there's nowhere to go. And it's kind of like, well, let's get to something very tangible, yeah, and go through the exercise quickly and see what happens.

SPEAKER_04 53:52

Yeah, like gives your situation like some kind of like shape. And and even though the categories are broad, there's still just by doing this like exploration.

SPEAKER_02 54:02

Yeah, the exercise, right?

SPEAKER_04 54:03

Yeah, there's like movement. Okay, should we move on to our how wise is it?

SPEAKER_02 54:09

How wise is it?

SPEAKER_04 54:11

Is it wise or how wise is it?

SPEAKER_02 54:14

Is it wise or how wise is it?

SPEAKER_04 54:15

Yeah, is it wise? I still this far into the podcast, I'm like changing it back and forth. I'm such a goose. Oh, that's all right. Um, how wise is it to romanticize your life?

SPEAKER_02 54:26

Okay, so you're gonna have to give some explanation. Education on this.

SPEAKER_04 54:31

Do you, Josh, as I say that term romanticizing your life, does it like feel like what the hell's that?

SPEAKER_01 54:36

No, I don't feel like what the hell's that, but I think my connotations might be different from because you said it was kind of a TikTok thing. A little bit. And like I I feel like when I was doing this the most was like 15 years before TikTok existed. Um like with my high school friends kind of like imagining we were like in a Wes Anderson movie, and like kind of like imagining your movie character.

SPEAKER_04 54:58

Yes, it's kind of like that, or like I'm the tortured artist.

SPEAKER_01 55:02

Then you think about like other tortured artists in movies, or like you're single and like sad, and it's like, well, that's funny in Swingers, so like it's kind of fun to think about it. Like if this were Swingers, yeah. Vegas baby. Totally. Yeah, yeah.

How Wise Is It: Romanticize Your Life

SPEAKER_04 55:16

It's like, and it depends on how like capitalist you want to get with it. But it yeah, it could be more like in your mind, right? Like kind of pretending you're a movie character and like treating your life that way. And like on TikTok, a lot of the romanticizing your life is like, let's say you're a single person living alone, you make like a really fancy latte with like the perfect little ceramic cup, and you like put it out on your porch on a summer day, and you kind of like listen, you put on a beret or like something like the whole idea is like you kind of embody something like romantic or like poetic almost. Okay. Rather than kind of just getting by and doing like the functional stuff in your life, you like really take your time with different things and make each like experience more kind of romantic. Like you're not just walking to the post office. There's like this like romance to it, like you wear an out certain outfit and you're sending a letter and what's right.

SPEAKER_02 56:18

And this is this is something that's like very right now, like people are doing.

SPEAKER_04 56:23

I would say, yeah, I came across um a sub, I mean I've seen it a bunch on TikTok, but I came across a substacker who substacks and a sub stack, right? Okay, newsletters, newsletters, social media platforms, got it. Yeah, and like in her newsletter, the whole purpose of it is like teaching people how to romanticize their life, and like she'll give ideas like here's 10, you know, romantic activities to do with yourself, you know, in five days. Like if you're gonna be by yourself.

SPEAKER_02 56:52

It's like go, you know, give yourself a pedicure or like put on a record as opposed to like you're listening to music on your phone or and and this person's the wisdom for this person to give ideas is what what comes from romanticizing your life.

SPEAKER_04 57:10

I think the idea is it the experience feels richer. Okay, I think, you know, so there's like more joy, more intensity, more texture, and thus, you know, you feel more happy, more fulfilled. Yeah. Yeah, I guess you could argue. I mean, I'm sure you could tear apart this argument as well, but you could argue it's like a form of mindfulness in some cases, sure with like the attention you're paying to each activity you're doing in different moments of your life.

SPEAKER_02 57:42

Yeah, how you're cultivating those experiences. Totally.

SPEAKER_04 57:46

But also it's like if you I I know myself, like I can get carried away where it's like you know, I became obsessed one day with like getting the perfect like Japanese latte mug. Like I'd seen them, of course, on social media and was like, I need in the morning to pour my latte into one of those mugs. Like I have to be the kind of person who has this mug. Yeah, I mean, home decor really can get into this. And then, you know, it could become a little like anything, you can kind of abuse it, where it's like when you're not able to romanticize it. Do you hate those moments? Like those moments can be rich too if you just pay attention to them, even if they're not romantic.

SPEAKER_02 58:28

Yeah. I'm wondering if there's a difference between romanticizing your life and romanticizing like an experience.

SPEAKER_04 58:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 58:36

You're almost distancing yourself or trying to distance yourself from reality if you're trying to romanticize your entire life. Totally. To cultivate this thing that's not really real. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe avoiding that. And we did the podcast on boredom. Like, sometimes you're gonna be bored. Some things aren't romantic, some things are very nuts and bolts and very like cumbersome and clumsy, and you know, and there's a lot of meaning in those experiences too.

SPEAKER_03 59:02

Totally challenge.

SPEAKER_02 59:03

I do think there is some wisdom in maybe romanticizing certain experiences or moments. That seems like that's a that would be a nice that's judgment. That would be a more enriching experience at times.

SPEAKER_03 59:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 59:17

Like I think I may and maybe I'm misinterpreting it, but like, would it be romanticizing a moment if, like, okay, I throw on a family a movie for the family. We're gonna have a movie night when I just throw on the family. Or if I really am like, okay, I'm gonna make the popcorn and I'm gonna like dim the lights and like almost make it like a movie theater. So is that like romanticizing that moment?

SPEAKER_04 59:40

Yeah, dim the lights. You gotta make it a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 59:43

Yeah, I can kind of see wisdom, you know, in totally, you know.

SPEAKER_04 59:47

Or like a rainy day, right? It's like, let's put the fire on. Right. We'll get our books out and have a hot chocolate and yes. Like, let's not let's look at this as like romantic. In some way.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:02

It's funny to use the word romantic. It's like it makes me want to look at like what does that word literally mean?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:07

Yeah. Because I think there were periods of my life, and maybe this happens more when you're single. I don't know why I want to say that, but like you're trying to like kind of define what your life really is. Yeah. Because I think there were times where maybe I was living my life more trying to like cultivate that romanticism of like, yeah, and we go out every weekend and we um and then there's the brunch on Sunday where we recap everything. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:34

Yeah, yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:35

You know, like I don't yeah, maybe that was like me trying to live in some sort of like reality of like this is what I do with my friends, and like this is how you like live your life. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:45

Yeah, and there's like something.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:46

I mean, I even think kind of like that swinger's idea of like this is like yeah, yeah, just going out all the time and you're trying to meet people and you're trying to have these experiences.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:58

Well, yeah, there's even like a romance to like those you one could look at those guys and just be like, There's two idiots. Or like there's like a romance to the freedom of it and the like adventure of it, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:12

And the possibility feel less lonely. Yeah. Yes. Because there's these two movie characters in a situation maybe that's similar to yours. Sure. In a way, you're watching them, you're laughing your ass off, it feels poetic, there's like metaphors, there's themes. Yeah. So I mean, and you know, my therapist has even said this at times. And she didn't use the word romanticize, but she said, like, if you're in a situation that maybe is less than desirable or where your anxiety's coming up, it's like think of yourself as a movie character.

unknown 1:01:41

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:42

Or it's like think of your anxiety almost as like like this like pesky character in your life.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:47

And it's like, oh, little Willy Wonka coming buzzing around my head again. Josh is, you know, going off on like, what if this? What if that? Ah.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:57

Beating myself up. Quick, quick, quick. It's like, that's just so silly.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:01

Right. Oh, I like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:03

That makes me think Willy Wonka must have been like the whole movie was like a metaphor for something.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:09

I don't even know why I said Willy Wonka, because that thematically has nothing to do with the bigger. Well, probably Timothy Shell. I mean, he's on everybody's mind. Yeah, totally. Oh, yeah, the fifth Wonka. The fifth Wonka. Yeah. You were thinking of Gene Wilder. I wasn't even I don't even, I was just thinking of like any name I could name.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:23

Well, when I looked up the definition, romantic, conducive to or characterized by the expression of love. Oh, or or okay, it says of characterized by or suggestive of an idealized view of reality. I don't know if I like necessarily think of it. Because it's if you take like a rainy day and you find the romance of it. Sure. I don't know if you're necessarily being like, I'm only gonna think of the ideal. You're kind of like making the moment the ideal. And that's the that's at the core of like that embracing the reality as it is and finding it romantic. It's even like romantic to have your heart broken, you know?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:06

Yeah. Like, yeah, I I'm getting stuck on the idea of like when you really engage with it on like your whole entire life, that's where I get a little bit like, uh, I don't know about that. Right. Like every experience could be meaningful and it doesn't have to be romantic in order to do that.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:22

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:23

And there's sometimes fallout when you try to romanticize things and then it doesn't turn out.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:28

Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:29

And then it's like a total disappointment. It's like, wait, what?

SPEAKER_04 1:03:32

It's almost like kind of impossible to apply it too broadly to your whole life. Yeah, it just doesn't even totally make sense. It's more like romanticizing aspects of your life, moments of the day.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:45

But it also makes me think of like daydreaming sometimes, like romanticizing your life in like a daydreamy type of way.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:52

I love daydreaming. It's important to daydreaming. It can be unhealthy sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:56

It can be unhealthy, but like, yeah, I think, or even romanticizing your past and kind of forgetting some yeah. Oh, yeah, of like, no, yeah, you're you're looking at it with kind of that tint of rose colored glasses where it's like, and actually you're kind of forgetting you were really struggling at that moment, right? Or there were a lot of problems going on, or some of the things you were doing weren't the healthiest things, you know. Um because I think I can get caught in the daydreaming forward and backwards of like definitely remember what that was like, and yeah, and to be there again, or to you know have that experience again just that exact way, and not that that's even possible, but you know, that can take me out of yeah, certain things.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:43

That's a that's not necessarily what we're talking about, but no, no, I I think it's a good distinction or a a useful distinction because yeah, I I think it is wise to consider romanticizing like your coffee ritual, yeah, or a rainy day, or your movie night with your family, or even like a bad day, you know. Like maybe it is helpful if it's present moment, you know. Like, I mean, man, isn't it important to have your heart broken at least once, or to be rejected and feel that pain and survive it? You're you're among the human race, you're in it and you're out there and you're trying, and you're this is what love is. It's like losing it and having it and uncertainty with it, and you know, like romanticizing a meal, romanticizing like a family gathering that like kind of went sideways, like almost like it's out of a movie. From sideways, from sideways, another great movie.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:44

I love that movie. Paul Giamatti also lost in the Golden Globes, but oh, was he nominated? He was nominated for something. I don't know what, but I was like, man, I really hope he wins. I feel like he never wins anything and he didn't win again.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:56

Let's romanticize Paul Giamatti.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:58

How wise is it? That's just reality.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:00

Is it that's just reality? You don't have to try. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:03

Do you ever see the holdovers?

SPEAKER_04 1:06:04

No, no, but I heard that was great.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:06

Great movie.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:07

We gotta we gotta watch that one. Is it kind of a Christmas movie?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:09

It's a holiday movie, so I don't know uh how you feel about watching those types of movies not during the holidays. Maybe next year. Maybe put it on the list for next year.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:17

Yeah, right after red one.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:20

Red two. Red eight. At this point, yeah, I'm sure there'll be a red two.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:24

Okay, so we're saying it's wise to do it with moments, experiences, present moments.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:33

I see wisdom in that.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:34

Yeah, I do too.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:36

And I think cultivating and being intentional about it, uh, I think can really enrich an experience, and even maybe experiences that are still what am I trying to say here? Like the movie night example, like it's like if that's like your routine, maybe juzge it up a little bit and see what that experience is like. So even the ones that you kind of get mundane or they're still enjoyable, but maybe there's a different way you could engage with it that really would make it feel a little bit more. I keep using the word romantic, but I feel like I want to use a different wordful. Yeah, but I feel like you want to use a vivid or potent.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:13

Yeah, or like like rich. Rich, yeah, is what, yeah, like just well, yes, because when you say it like that, you know how like this is another common social media thing where people will be like, I rotted on the couch all day.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:25

Oh, yeah, bed rotting or couch rotting. Rotting, couch rotting.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:28

Think of couch rotting, that uh approach of it. Yeah. Versus like, you know what, I'm gonna cozy up. Get the blankets, get the hot chocolate, the coffee, the hot chocolate, and mindfully sit and like enjoy these characters I love. Yeah. And you know, do that for three hours. Light a candle, light a candle, candles. Oh my god, there's candles of lore in this romanticized incense, whatever it is. It's like candles, it's like garnishes on your dishes, it's the kind of nice you know, flatware thing. Like it's a lot of that. Yeah, you know, outfits, yeah. Intentional, maybe.

Picks, Plans, And Next Week’s Cult Deep Dive

SPEAKER_02 1:08:13

I think there's intentionality there. Yeah. I'm thinking of what the experience though evokes from us. And I think the ri I like the rich, like it's maybe a more rich when we pay a little bit more attention to it.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:25

Yeah, definitely. And maybe I really comes down to that. Like putting the garnish on. It's just a symbol of like you care.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:32

You care about this moment.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:36

And when you care, like it's wise to care.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:41

Maybe that that's up for debate. No, but not me. In today's society, yeah. Yeah, totally. Yeah, it's wise. Right. It is so wise.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:49

We can't even get into that.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:50

You can't even get into that. Oh, sorry, I'm kicking you.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:54

I don't know where to put my legs.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:55

Oh my god. Okay, so I think I'm gonna try an experience this week, and I'm gonna try to romanticize the experience.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:05

Yeah, yeah, maybe I will too.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:07

Maybe I don't know what that's gonna look like, but I'm gonna try like one thing.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:11

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:12

And like, yeah, really give it some effort.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:17

Yeah. Yeah, I'm gonna do that too. Maybe for the weekend or find somewhere in the week. If I like try to romanticize being a therapist, I put on like an elbow patch sweater or like Sigmund Freud pipe.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:30

You'd have the glass on the totally the little glasses, uh Rorschach plot. Perfect.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:40

That would be great. Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:42

You know what I sometimes romanticize about that I haven't done in a long time? Going to the record store.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:48

That means perfect example.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:50

It just came to me because I haven't been there in a while.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:53

And there were literally times. This may sound silly, but like I would be so excited like the day before I knew, like a Friday, where I was like, I mean, I'm gonna go tomorrow to Reckless, and then I'm gonna go over to Dusty Groove, and I'm just gonna be like in there, like with the just going through every single, I don't care if I like the genre, and just like really like that. Maybe I'll try to do that this weekend because I haven't been to the record store in a while.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:23

So really that is a great one.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:25

Like, get my coffee, go there.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:29

Yeah, really savor it.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:31

Savor it. Yeah, yes, yes, and no budget. No, I'm I mean, absolutely no budget. I'm putting some the AMX black card down and saying, you know what? Whatever. Pull the pin. Yeah. I'm buying it. Totally.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:46

Yeah, I'm shopping a little bit on Saturday because I've been looking for some things for a wedding, a couple weddings. I'm trying to think if I could romanticize that if I like went to the right kind of like boutique. I'm probably just gonna go to like Nordstrom, but but I could also romanticize going to the bookstore. Yeah. Oh, oh, I mean, please. A bookstore. Love a bookstore, coffee.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:05

Bring the journal.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:07

Wait, are we gonna be talking about cults at some point? Yeah, next week. Is that a TV?

SPEAKER_04 1:11:11

Next week, we're gonna be talking about we're gonna be watching the first episode of the cult docuseries, The VOW.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:18

The VOW.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:19

So if you all wanna watch it.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:21

If you want to watch it, what platform is it on right now?

SPEAKER_04 1:11:23

It should be on HBO. Okay. I mean it's an HBO original.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:26

Okay. So yeah. So we're gonna be watching the first episode. We're having a guest, correct? We're having a guest.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:33

I won't tell you.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:34

And we're gonna be talking about cults. I can't wait. I'm excited about it.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:36

I think it'll be so great.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:38

You and I love talking about cults. I mean, I could talk about cults for the rest of my life. Which is great. So where can people find you?

SPEAKER_04 1:11:44

People can find me at kkpsychotherapy.com. Um so yeah, if you have questions about the pod, you want to work with me, you want to suggest things, anything like that, send me an inquiry on the inquiry page. And how about you, John?

SPEAKER_02 1:11:58

Uh email me at butzbutv.jonathan at gmail.com. Jish.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:05

Josh Bayerfilms.com. Bayer is in the aspirin. And uh that's my website.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:13

Okay, and thank you to blanketfor it.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:15

Thank you to blankets for it. Do you know now that now this is the last thing I'll say? Do you know whenever somebody's named Josh, my kids will say it's Jish Dad. Oh, so now it's it's it's gaining traction. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:27

They're gonna meet a Jish out there one day and it's gonna take them by the way.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:30

Well, they but you're the original. So you're like, yeah, I know a Jish.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:34

It's so cute. I love that they picked up on that. Only a few people have like actually adapted.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:39

Oh, they're you're no one else to them other than Jish.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:42

I love it.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:44

Anyway, but thank you, Blanket Force. Thank you everybody for listening. Yeah, yeah, let's talk some cults next week.

Where To Find Us & Sign‑Off

SPEAKER_04 1:12:48

Yeah, we'll see you next week for the vow. The Wise Mind Happy Hour podcast is for entertainment purposes only, not to be treated as medical advice. If you are struggling with your mental health, please seek medical attention or counseling.