finding your wise mind as an EDUCATOR (feat. Tom Boyk)

Teaching is TOUGH...how do you find your wise mind in a profession that is one of the most vital in existence, yet is somehow more and more discredited by our government with each passing year? PLUS: what's the deal with "bean soup?"

⚠️ AND SPOILER ALERT ⚠️ if you don't want to know the ending of "Bugonia," please skip the section from 16 min - 35 min 

- music by blanket forts -

Transcript

Welcome And Meet Tom

SPEAKER_02 0:04

Welcome to the Wisemind Happy Hour. I'm John.

SPEAKER_03 0:06

I'm Kelly.

SPEAKER_02 0:08

We're back in studio. It's a very special episode for me because we have a guest in studio, my best friend, Tom Boyk. Welcome, Tom. Welcome.

SPEAKER_04 0:18

Thanks for joining us.

SPEAKER_02 0:19

Thank you for joining us. Tom was my first crush. No, Tom was the my first like friend I met at college. And it's my best friend. Freshman year, we lived in the same dorm. And just to give some background, Tom was like, I grew up with friends that weren't very like emotionally, I would say, available. Okay, I'm sure. And so as a therapist and what I would consider somebody who likes to talk about their feelings, it was like, oh my God, this is what like a male friendship should really be. And so, like, a lot of people have friends from like childhood that they stayed in touch with. I don't really have that as much because I don't feel like I built like a really deep connection. But Tom was kind of like the first guy that I did.

SPEAKER_03 1:10

I love it. That's so exciting. St.

SPEAKER_02 1:12

Norbert College, we have to thank for that. Oh, yeah. And Tom's Tom's parents for raising an emotionally intelligent man.

SPEAKER_03 1:22

Would you characterize yourself that way?

SPEAKER_00 1:24

Yeah. I mean, I'm a very sensitive person. Yeah. That's always been something for me. I literally, I actually met, I saw John during orientation. Oh, you clocked down. Do you remember the story? From afar. From afar. Well, here's the thing. So it was a story. It's very close. Because so, you know, it's like orientation. I don't know anybody. I'm from Illinois. I'm in northern Wisconsin. So I'm like, you know, I'm super anxious about this whole experience. And so, you know, you do the shower. So in at St. Orbit, you had the shower and then like a little changing space, and then you open up to the rest of the bathroom. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:59

It's like community bathroom.

SPEAKER_00 2:00

It was community bathroom, but not like communal shower. So like you had your individual stall. So like again, in my mind, like I had mapped out orientation, and like that was a little bit of a hurdle. Yeah. To like, all right, you know, you can you can do this. Yeah. Communal living. So I like woke up early, set my alarm, I get, I, you know, go take a shower, I change. I'm coming out of that, that, that changing space, and I like come around the corner and literally like leaning up against the wall is John. And of course, what's your now? You're like startled, and I'm like, oh great top. Now this guy thinks you're a total loser.

SPEAKER_02 2:37

Like now, let's just clarify too. I'm not just waiting around for like people to come in. No, no, he just waits. The showers are taking you. So I'm staying in John Wars. It's not like I'm just like in the bathroom. Like, just like, yep, okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:52

He had already smelled my hair, which was like I was like, well, maybe that's a Wisconsin thing.

SPEAKER_02 2:57

Waiting, and Tom just happens to So, okay, fine, whatever.

SPEAKER_00 3:00

I'm like, that's fine, Tom. Like, there's like there's thousands of people at St. Norbert. You'll never run into this guy. So freshman year, we're moving in, you know. But I look out, I look like just out in the hallway, and of course, John walks by. Like, oh my gosh, this guy. Okay, my sister calls. My sister went to St. Norbert. She goes, you know, uh, one of her best friends is a long story. Sorry, one of her best friends, the younger brother, also was a freshman. So she's like, Hey, could you get go find Corey Reno's room? And I was like, okay. So I like take my phone. Again, this is like wireless phone. Wait, Corey Earl's. What was his name? Earl. Earl. Corey was the sister, I think. Yeah, yeah. Earl Reno. Earl Reno. So of course I knock on the door, and who answers the door but But Sir. Because Earl is my roommate. So I hand the room. John's like getting rid of this asshole. I keep on exactly. So I run it and I, it's not him, it's his roommate. So I hand the phone, but I don't want to walk away. It's like my wireless phone. This guy doesn't know where I so I just stand there. And you know, John. Like it's John's a quiet guy.

SPEAKER_03 4:02

And you're comfortable with a silence.

SPEAKER_00 4:04

And people quietness can be intimidating at times. And he's got a Janet Jackson poster. So I remember being like, oh, big Janet Jackson fan. And he just like looks at me, he's like, Yeah. And that's my best friend. That's my best friend. I love it. That's the number one person.

SPEAKER_03 4:19

So it was like a slow build after that.

SPEAKER_02 4:21

Well, we haven't talked since. But yeah, we're this is no, I think it was pretty immediate after that. It was immediate after that. We went out that night.

SPEAKER_03 4:29

You went out that night.

SPEAKER_02 4:30

Yeah, because it was like a bunch of freshmen. Yeah. And actually, the party we went to got busted. I do remember that. It was there was a live D like this was like epic because there was a live DJ at the house party we went to, and we were like, oh my god, like every party here is gonna be insane. There was never a live DJ ever again in our college.

SPEAKER_00 4:45

We did think that was gonna be the norm, though. Totally. It was gonna be great, but it wasn't.

SPEAKER_02 4:49

We ended up running so that we didn't get a drinking ticket on our like first night of college.

SPEAKER_03 4:54

Um to run.

SPEAKER_00 4:59

But then after that, it was we bonded over fresh new socks. We both like a new socks.

SPEAKER_02 5:07

We'll get into this too, but Tom was like the TA of the Mac lab. Like there was a special lab for all the education majors, and it had all Mac computers, and so and this is pre-Apple was cool again, so it was literally just us and the foreign exchange students.

SPEAKER_00 5:22

Yeah, like so, like Kitty Corner across the hall was the PC lab, and that was always packed. Mac lab was literally just us and then the foreign exchange students. Because you were both Mac people. I was not no, we were neither of us were Mac, but that was just where I was assigned.

SPEAKER_02 5:33

That's where he was assigned, and I was just going to hang out with him. So it would be us, and then like all these open computers, and so I kind of use Macs because I was like, I just want to hang out with Tom.

SPEAKER_03 5:43

I love that.

SPEAKER_02 5:44

So anyway, so there's a lot of those types of stories.

SPEAKER_00 5:47

A lifetime, a lifetime of stories.

SPEAKER_03 5:49

I definitely had a friend where the first time I met her, she came to my dorm and was like I guess friends with my roommate, and she was like super rude to me. And I was kind of like, You're in my dorm. Like, and now we're like friends. I went for a wedding, like we're this girl Monica. Shout out to Monica Foot. She's the best. I think it was just like an awkward moment. Wait, what's her last name? Foot F-O-O-T-E. Really? Yeah, she's the best. I don't even know if I've ever shared that with her. She wasn't even rude, but I think it was sort of like they were doing their own thing, and I was like kind of trying to get in there, and then I was like, all right, geez, you're like in my dorm room. Right. And then like slowly over the year, like we became super close.

SPEAKER_02 6:29

Well, I was probably anxious too, and mine was just coming across in a different way. She was probably just not talking to anybody. I was just like sitting there and just like you. Yeah, like just taking it all in. Right. But yeah, I'm really, I mean, when we first started this pod, I knew right away Tommy was gonna be like my friend that I wanted on first.

SPEAKER_03 6:48

Yeah, totally. Because you're in touch with your wise mind. I think so. I don't know. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 6:55

I don't know. But we're gonna find out by the end of the day. Yeah, we will, we will. We're gonna find out. But let's check in as we typically use. You had some things to check in about.

The Bean Soup Theory Explained

SPEAKER_03 7:04

Yeah, well, okay. So, like a few like media things that I've come across. I mentioned this to you guys, but I didn't tell you what it is. The bean soup theory. I told Josh about this, which is like an online phenomenon. Bean soup. And this is this is gonna be something people can relate to if they're a little like terminally online, which is like the bean soup theory is like someone on Instagram or TikTok posts a video of a or like a even a video or like a carousel or whatever of a recipe for bean soup. And then the first comment is, Well, I don't eat beans. And it's like this is the internet now, where it's like everybody thinks everything's for them, and if it isn't, they're like up in arms about it. Okay, instead of just like, oh, well, then this isn't for me. Yeah, this isn't for you. Yeah, I just wonder what you guys think of it. I'm obsessed with it.

SPEAKER_02 7:56

So but so what is tell me? I don't understand, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 8:00

Well, okay, maybe I almost everyone just feels like they're the main character now. They're the main characters. Literally, right?

SPEAKER_02 8:06

Everything is about them. Is the play there just move on and don't respond or type anything in the in the yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:13

It's like just don't make a comment. Just don't make a comment. Yes, but to you, because you're not terminally online, it's intuitive to you.

SPEAKER_00 8:20

Is it shocking to you that John is not online? John has no social media. It's not shocking. I asked him, what do you actually do on your phone? Like, what do you do on the phone? Yeah, what did you do?

SPEAKER_02 8:29

I mean, we I think uh we this is a behind the scene. This is the making of the the sausage here, but I mean we've had many conversations not recorded where I'm like, I don't know if I want to put this on. I'm scared of it. Like, let's not do this, like I'm kind of freaking out. So yeah, what if I become the bean soup?

SPEAKER_03 8:47

And some of those I don't like John.

SPEAKER_02 8:51

Well, that what? That'll take it down, take it all down. Um, yeah, I guess that's interesting. So it just comes intuitively. It's like, oh, move on.

SPEAKER_03 9:00

Yeah. Well, and I think there is like a another version of this that's maybe like a little darker, is like if someone posts like, so nice to like be with my friends. Oh, here we go. I can't wait for this. And the first comment is like, must be nice to have friends. Oh, nice. You know, it's like, oh my god, like make a friend.

SPEAKER_02 9:20

Like, I'm not kind of shot across the bow. Like in your face. Right. This person doesn't even know you.

SPEAKER_03 9:27

Yeah, like it's gotten to a place where it's like no one can really do anything without people being like, well, it must be nice. Personally, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:34

And really, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:35

It's like haul out culture.

SPEAKER_00 9:36

Are you a po I never I I do the social medias, but I rarely post. Do you post things?

SPEAKER_03 9:41

Well, we post the pod so much.

SPEAKER_00 9:43

Right, of course. And then there's that. But I'm saying on your own personal space.

SPEAKER_03 9:47

So no. Yeah. And even before we posted for the pod, I really didn't post much. I just lurked really. Josh didn't, you didn't.

SPEAKER_00 9:56

But I say, Josh, you probably for work, you probably have to like post things.

SPEAKER_01 9:59

I've started more, but yeah, everyone's been telling me that for so long, and I didn't for so long, and now I've started to but I was never a lurker before that. A lurker.

SPEAKER_03 10:08

Yeah, he wouldn't even go on.

SPEAKER_02 10:09

Wait, do you have the urge if you were to see said bean soup? Would you have the urge to put something in there or would you go on?

SPEAKER_03 10:17

I'd never comment. Oh, well, okay, here's the thing. If you're trying to grow your audience, they recommend that you comment because TikTok and Instagram like it when you comment and they'll boost your post.

SPEAKER_02 10:29

So you would comment under under the wise mind moniker or whatever. Yeah. Okay. But what I'll comment is usually like, especially on TikTok, the comment will be like listen to your wise mind, have no.

SPEAKER_03 10:43

Here's a link.

SPEAKER_02 10:44

Here's a link.

SPEAKER_03 10:45

Yeah. I'll usually comment something like, it's usually if someone says something that I like, I'll kind of be like, this, and that's like really it, which also people say is like not really enough. They were there, like a substantive comment that's a little bit thought-provoking is like your best. On a creator who doesn't have a ton of followers, TikTok really likes when you do that and they'll like boost your stuff. And it does work when I've done it. My videos get more views.

SPEAKER_00 11:10

See, and that's the thing. I just don't have uh the mental energy to do like want to process all this. No, because like I'll make like a post because I'll do woodworking or something, and I'll like make a post and then I'll be like, who really even wants to see this? Like, am I just doing this to show off? And then, like, after about two minutes of looking at, I just delete and move on. You do, you will. Oh, I never, yeah. I I I write a lot of posts and then delete them. Why like I don't even actually post them, but I just because again, I just I don't know. They're no work documents. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:39

Or like a notebook. It's better to, you know, just not put them out there. Well, it's so interesting. I wonder if that uh like are people just so self-centered that that's what it is? Are people so lonely that that's how they're a way that they're somehow connecting?

SPEAKER_03 11:54

I think it's probably both.

SPEAKER_02 11:56

And it's like not that it's one thing.

SPEAKER_03 11:58

The internet does like it's like both the posting and the watching like puts you in this weird relationship with yourself.

SPEAKER_00 12:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:05

Where it's like every single thing I do is interesting to the whole world, you know.

SPEAKER_00 12:11

Like I will I do occasionally post and then I'm constantly looking. Yeah. Which to me is like, again, the main reason why I don't do it, because that that's not a great behavior. Totally. Being like, I need that fulfillment from those likes on Reddit. Like, are you kidding? I know. And then inevitably someone says something negative, and then as a sensitive person, just really kind of rough, you know. Totally. I posted something about a plant because my plant had flowered for the first time in years. It was a sans servia. So I posted something and some Canadian person insulted me. And I was like, seriously, what? I just wanted to. Well, I I was asking about the seeds, and they made like, like, oh, you should know better. Like this, you clearly need multiple plants flowering. I'm like, well, yeah, I guess you're right, but you don't have to be mean about it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:55

Canadians are supposed to be no more. It's like this is something, okay? Can we agree on that?

SPEAKER_00 12:59

Am I yeah, again, too sensitive. I'm too sensitive for social media.

SPEAKER_03 13:04

I know there are some people who it's like, if I get a negative comment, there's like whatever. And like, I to me, I was like, okay, Josh, when we're promoting the pod, we'll just get in, get out, you know, post and leave. But if you do that, the app doesn't like it. No, you have to push your stuff out. Yeah, yeah. So it's like they want you to be addicted.

SPEAKER_02 13:22

I kind of want a bad negative review.

SPEAKER_03 13:24

I know. Oh, really? A negative review means people are watching.

SPEAKER_02 13:28

I know, but I want I kind of want to just test my ego stream. Totally. Totally. Like, I just want to see what it's like. Yeah. I'm not saying we get good reviews. I just feel like they're not wide enough to have you looked at like the Apple Podcast reviews?

SPEAKER_03 13:41

I haven't.

SPEAKER_02 13:42

I have never. It's justn't it just stars?

SPEAKER_03 13:45

It's well, people can write actual reviews. Maybe people haven't. Actually, I mean, if you're liking the pod, Josh, if you looked at I haven't looked at that.

SPEAKER_02 13:52

At the Apple reviews or the other I've only seen stars.

SPEAKER_01 13:55

I haven't seen any like I think we have five stars right now.

SPEAKER_00 13:59

I saw that it was six out of five. Yeah, you guys were above, like they made a new category for this pot alone. Wow. Yeah, thank you, Apple. I love we are cooking. Big deal.

SPEAKER_01 14:10

Well they what they say.

SPEAKER_03 14:12

Well, maybe it wasn't there wasn't anything written. No, I didn't realize. I was just joking. I thought that. I'm like, he's he was like that's all right.

SPEAKER_02 14:18

We had Josh going.

SPEAKER_00 14:20

Well, the bean soup.

SPEAKER_03 14:21

So that's the bean soup theory. It's kind of funny.

SPEAKER_00 14:24

But I think it's only gonna get worse. The whole idea of this bean soup thing, you know, like as a teacher of young children, it's like everything is about them. You know, you'll say something in class, and no, I was doing my work. It's like, hey, buddy, I wasn't necessarily talking about you. Like, don't bean soup this.

SPEAKER_03 14:41

Well, don't bean soup. Don't bean soup this. Oh, so wow. So like when you address the class, kids are not aware that like he's addressing a group that I'm part of, not the whole of.

SPEAKER_00 14:53

Yeah, they take everything like it's I'm directing every statement to them, all 28 of them or whatever.

SPEAKER_03 15:00

Interesting. And how old are the kids you teach?

SPEAKER_00 15:02

Oh, I do K5.

SPEAKER_03 15:03

K5, okay. So all the little guys.

SPEAKER_02 15:05

Yeah, so we didn't really get into that, but Tom is an educator, a teacher. Wow. Uh now you don't have a classroom anymore. You go.

SPEAKER_00 15:13

No, so I'm like a I'm my job title now is instructional technology coach, but it's more like uh all I do is integrate technology into the classroom. So like a teacher will come to me and say, Hey, you know, we're doing the Civil War and we need to work on map skills. What can you give me? And so then I'll kind of come up with an with an activity for them. I'll usually co-teach with them and then leave. So it's kind of like I always say it's like being a grandparent because I don't grade them, I don't discipline them. It's awesome. That's incredible. But it's only maybe like there's it's looking like this will be next year'll be my last year in this role.

unknown 15:49

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 15:49

And I'll be switching to more of a traditional like STEM special, which means like kind of like a gym teacher, music teacher, but I'll be first technology now. Okay. And you've been teaching for over 20 years. 23 years, yeah. Wow. Yeah, 14 years in this role, and then nine years as a seventh grade social studies teacher. Whoa!

SPEAKER_03 16:08

Yeah, yeah. Okay, I love it. Okay, I want to hear more about that.

SPEAKER_02 16:14

Fire away now or well, let's wait till the main section.

Begonia Review And Spoilers

SPEAKER_03 16:19

What's new with you?

SPEAKER_02 16:21

Begonia. That's it. It's consuming me. Yeah, tell us what I'm saying. I was trying to think of, I was like, what did I do this past weekend and couldn't think of anything? And then I was like, oh, I watched that movie. Yeah. Begonia.

SPEAKER_03 16:34

You watched it alone, or Sarah watched it with you?

SPEAKER_02 16:36

No, Sarah would never watch a movie like that. She was.

SPEAKER_00 16:38

Sarah does not like movies like that?

SPEAKER_02 16:40

No, no. Why not? She doesn't like thrillery, way too intense. Oh, gosh. There's too much violence. Yeah. Towards the end.

SPEAKER_00 16:49

Okay, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:50

Towards the end there's um gruesome. Yeah, pretty bleak. Bleak.

SPEAKER_03 16:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:55

Yeah, just not her cup of tea. Okay. So so I watched it and I forgot. I think you had mentioned you saw it. Did you see it in the theater?

SPEAKER_03 17:05

We saw it in theater like kind of right when it came out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:07

I remember seeing the preview when I went to a movie and I was like, oh, I definitely want to see that. And I kind of forgot about it. Yeah. But um, so yeah, so that's been kind of consuming me lately. So the idea is, you know, kind of um, I don't know, what would you say? Like a very insular loner type who um has a theory that aliens have infiltrated um or are trying to infiltrate kind of humankind earth. And um he feels as though he has a way of detecting them. And uh who is that actor, by the way?

SPEAKER_03 17:43

Jesse Plemens, he's so great. He's great, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:46

And so he has narrowed it down that he knows um that the head, like a C-level or president of a company, uh, which I believe is like dealing with chemicals and maybe pharmaceuticals. Yeah, it's kind of like unclear. Yeah. Um biotech type biotech would kind of be what it was. That the the head of this organization is actually an alien. And so his um theory is to kidnap her and have her communicate to the mothership, yeah. Um, so that he can you know destroy it and save humankind and his mother, and save his mother, yes, who is kind of a clinical trial, yeah. Kind of a clinical trial, yeah. Yeah, so we might be talking about some spoilers.

SPEAKER_03 18:33

So this is the moment we're in spoiler country. So if you want to see begonia, yeah, maybe turn off now.

SPEAKER_02 18:39

Yeah, or come back at a minute.

SPEAKER_03 18:42

Well, we don't know the minute at the moment.

SPEAKER_02 18:46

Our editor and chief of staff, Jish, will let you know.

SPEAKER_03 18:50

And the time code it will be.

SPEAKER_01 18:51

Jump ahead six minutes.

SPEAKER_03 18:53

There you go, six minutes. Knowing us, timeouts.

SPEAKER_02 18:56

Knowing us, but if you've already seen it, um what and what's her name again, the actress? Emma Stone. Emma Stone is and she's great, and she's like convincing and like, I'm not an alien, I'm not an alien. Yeah, but and then she turns out to be an alien.

SPEAKER_03 19:10

Yeah, spoiler alert, she turns out to be an alien. Yeah, yeah. Did you guys like that reveal?

SPEAKER_00 19:17

I went, I I went back and forth the whole time because I wanted it to be true, and then I want not like you know, throughout the movie, which to me is good writing. Like, that's a good movie, is you're on the edge of your seat and trying to figure out the ending.

SPEAKER_02 19:27

So I when did you realize she was?

SPEAKER_00 19:30

I mean, right, I I like I kept on literally louder and louder announcing to my wife, like, oh no, she's an alien. Oh no, she isn't an alien, and then right before. So I went back and forth.

SPEAKER_02 19:40

Like when she got out of the ambulance when she was I don't know if I remember it that closely. I know because I just watched it. But like, how about when she was explaining to him and saying, Go get the antifreeze out of the back of the car? Like, she's still in the basement, she's still there. Are we believing she's not an alien then? Maybe you all haven't seen it.

SPEAKER_03 20:01

I was I didn't think she was gonna be an alien.

SPEAKER_02 20:07

I honestly didn't think it until she when she's in the ambulance, yeah, and then for some reason she's like, I have to get out of here, I have to get out of the ambulance. I was like, something's not right here. And that's where I was kind of like, oh my god, is she gonna running back, getting the calculator, which ends up turning into be the thing that like the combat to the mothership, which I thought was kind of funny in a weird way. Because she was like, Well, it had to be something banal to the calculator to you know, kind of like fool him, you know.

SPEAKER_03 20:38

Yeah, well, and what's funny is like so much, it's such a heavy, like monologue movie. And like I really found those so interesting. Like when he would talk about like his anti-capitalist views, I thought it was a really interesting vehicle for those ideas. Like I remember when he said the thing of like she said something about like university research or something. He's like, Oh, universities, like overpriced institutions that launder privilege. And I was like, That's so what they are. Like, I was like, Oh wow, I I think and this guy who's like you know, not showering and like obviously has like barely a dime to his name, has these like has actually in some ways like a pretty incisive view on some things, but then he's also like chemically castrating himself and the other guy, the other guy. Which was like, you know, yeah, like that blurred line between like sanity and insanity, and how like a capitalistic structure can make you like not trust your own voice and like insight and intuition. So like when she was an alien, part of me I could feel was like bummed.

SPEAKER_02 21:51

I was like, oh my reaction to it was a little bit like oh, wait a second. Is the is the narrative here That like people who do buy into conspiracy theories now are like, well, see, like she like he's right. Right. Like we should feel bad. Like, yes, he was struggling in it, but he was right in the end. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like it's it's almost like, you know, and I I kind of like the people who are believing these conspiracies and echo chambers and things like that. I don't know. Is it like telling you it's like, well, they might actually be right. So Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:27

It was almost like maybe some. I don't know. Does that make sense? Yes, totally. You guys are looking at me like it's kind of like a little bit of a little bit of a little if someone took a superficial like lens, you might think that. But to me, it was like some kind of like validation of like someone getting to that place. Because whether she's an alien or not, these like forces are affecting him and all of us. Yeah. Like capitalistic profit-driven forces are like creating him and his suffering. I like I did think there was a vindication there for people like him. And like as ridiculous as like the calculator and like stuff like that. Because you know, it's like obvious, it's like your hair, the messages are in your hair. You're like, oh boy, this guy. And then they worked on your skin. And the way, the way when she woke up, instead of being like, What happened to me? She just goes, Where's my hair? Like, where is it?

SPEAKER_02 23:27

Yeah. You know, I guess there were little tells. Yeah, there were little tells. Yeah, I guess you're right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:33

Hmm. Yeah, what do you think? Do you feel like it's like people could get carried away with like conspiracy theorists are it?

SPEAKER_02 23:40

Oh, I don't know. I mean, when you said shallow interpretation, it's like, I guess Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

I mean, do you feel like sometimes we overinterpretate like interpretation? Oh, for sure. In so many ways, where it's like, were they just trying to tell a very interesting thriller that that keeps you like going back and forth? Could have been. Totally. Or was it validating all conspiracy theorists that live in their parents' cabinets?

SPEAKER_02 24:02

That live in their cabins and their, you know, where it's kind of like, see, we're right. Like, yeah. And then I got a little confused with what okay, so like I just hit the image in my head of when he blows himself up in the head and hits her. His head flies out hits her onto the couch.

SPEAKER_03 24:22

Yeah, that character like really tugged at my heartstrings, the guy with the really thick hair. Which guy? The younger guy. Not Jesse Clemens. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yes. I thought, what an incredible actor. Right. Just like energy in the film. I liked him a lot. But you know, like when you realize like she is an alien and she's come to Earth to try to like salvage. I almost couldn't make heads or tails of that. Like, what do I feel about that? Like, that's where when she turned out to be an alien, I was like, oh, now I'm a little more confused about this. At least my relationship too.

SPEAKER_00 24:59

You know what? I I do like movies like that because you go back and you watch it the second time or third time and you start to see all the tells.

SPEAKER_03 25:05

Yeah, I should do that. That's actually a really good call.

SPEAKER_00 25:08

There's just too much media to consume.

SPEAKER_03 25:10

I know. I moved on to the next. To the bean soup lady.

SPEAKER_00 25:14

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 25:15

I like the idea though of I mean, it's dark, but like, well, we kind of had our shot. Yeah. And we and we just couldn't do it.

SPEAKER_03 25:22

She would look at Josh like that too.

SPEAKER_02 25:23

You know, all the humans are dead now. So it's like, well, but the bees are still alive. Like that's kind of hopeful.

SPEAKER_03 25:28

Yeah, that was and how about the final shots?

SPEAKER_02 25:31

Yeah, of the people. They're just dead.

SPEAKER_03 25:33

There's just everyone dead.

SPEAKER_02 25:34

Yeah. She like pops the bubble and then like everybody's dead.

SPEAKER_03 25:38

Just at like a roller rink.

SPEAKER_02 25:40

It's like, man, we really gave them a lot of time here and they just couldn't figure it out. Which is kind of where the world's going.

SPEAKER_03 25:46

Totally.

SPEAKER_02 25:46

And I think we just can't figure it out. Yeah. Like we can't get this not right, but we just can't get it done. Yeah. So I like that idea. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:56

Which like that I like. But then it's like, how was like her being like a corporate CEO helping? What do you mean, helping?

SPEAKER_00 26:04

I mean, she's she's got all this time on Earth. It's like vampires. They got all the time on Earth. They're gonna eventually like become wealthy and powerful. Right.

SPEAKER_03 26:11

But then was she losing her mission to rehabilitate, rehabilitate Earth? Or she got caught up in capitalism herself? Oh or she was supposed to be in that. That's what I couldn't understand. Like clearly, she was like, why was she put in that role?

SPEAKER_02 26:25

Right.

SPEAKER_03 26:25

Or did she just wind up there?

SPEAKER_02 26:27

Or did she just wind up there? Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 26:29

Like maybe a rewatch would would make I feel like she did not wind up there. I think she was purposely placed in that role.

SPEAKER_02 26:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:36

You know, because she's like a biotech company. Yeah. Like she brings alien technology and alien knowledge.

SPEAKER_03 26:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:42

Why are aliens always in like goo too? Like when she like comes when she like gets back to the mothership, she like comes out of like goo.

SPEAKER_03 26:49

We have such a schema for aliens that we cannot get out of. Yeah, it's like goo. Although the movie Arrival kind of got out of it a little.

SPEAKER_00 26:57

Arrival was so incredible. What a gut-wrenching movie. I know. I don't think I've seen that. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 27:04

It is life changing that movie. Life changing. Which one is it? Josh doesn't like it that much.

SPEAKER_01 27:10

You don't like it that much. No, I do like it a lot. Didn't make you feel too many of the things. Wait, wait, wait. Which one is it? Who's Amy?

SPEAKER_03 27:15

Is it Amy Adams? Amy Adams and Jeremy Renner.

SPEAKER_00 27:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:19

This movie is life.

SPEAKER_00 27:20

Oh, it's really good. It's really good. Arrival. Yeah. I mean, Sarah might like it. Sarah might like it. Because it really isn't, there's not like a ton. It's it is very gentle. Yeah. Alright. It's beautiful. It's not gentle. Are there a lot of darts? Emotional.

SPEAKER_03 27:34

No, it's like millions. Is there a lot of rain? She doesn't like movies with a lot of rain.

SPEAKER_02 27:40

No, I just remember very vividly one time her like coming into the room as I'm watching a movie, and it just happened to be a scene where there was rain on, and she was like, Tell me when it's over. And it was like she didn't even.

SPEAKER_00 27:50

What is Sarah's favorite movie? That's adorable.

SPEAKER_02 27:52

Um like what's her favorite genre? Probably like comedy rom-com, maybe somewhere in that range. I mean, think of movies that have the same feeling as like Gilmore girls. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:05

Okay, cool, cool. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 28:06

Or The West Wing is probably as intense. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, well, she likes the social network. So she'll like a drama, but definitely like an errand sorcus. There's a lot of rain in the social network. I know. That's that's actually that is an intense movie.

SPEAKER_03 28:20

Great soundtrack. Totally raid soundtrack.

SPEAKER_02 28:22

What is that? Trent Reznor?

SPEAKER_03 28:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:25

But anyway, begonia.

SPEAKER_03 28:26

Begonia, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:27

I mean I think it's definitely something to watch for all of this type of kind of conversation.

SPEAKER_03 28:32

Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_02 28:34

And I think everybody was pretty like believable in that movie. Like I thought everybody did a really well, like not that there's that many characters, but I thought it was just really well acted.

SPEAKER_03 28:44

Yeah. What do you guys think of the scene with the cop coming over to the house?

SPEAKER_02 28:48

Interesting. That was interesting. Yeah. That seemed like I kind of figured that's what happened between them, something like that. Like overtures of some sort of like sexual trauma. Yeah. Something like that.

SPEAKER_03 29:03

Yeah. And it was interesting considering like what role that had in the narrative. Like maybe, maybe almost to your point, a little like all this trauma, all this suffering, all this, like all these forces working against him, and he still like found something pretty profound, like unraveled this conspiracy.

SPEAKER_02 29:26

Yeah. But then the negative part of me was like, uh, was that just kind of like a way to shoehorn to get the cop to his house? Like maybe a long way around to kind of like get the cops to his house because he was so isolated, and if there was really like no trail, how are they gonna like catch him eventually?

SPEAKER_03 29:41

But but like Yorgo's, I feel like everything is thought.

SPEAKER_02 29:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:46

Like every and it comes up twice that idea. Like I I give him the like a lot of credit. Like, I think that director, it's like every single is thought of.

SPEAKER_02 29:57

I'm sure it is. That was my initial reaction. But then in like as I'm thinking about the movie, I was like, well, what is a good one? Yeah, it could be a device, a setting thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:08

But I wonder.

SPEAKER_02 30:09

Because he like pulls him over, and then that's the first movie, right? And he's like, Oh, I'll stop by.

SPEAKER_03 30:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:14

And then I was kind of like, you know, in retrospect, I was like, Oh, was that kind of just like a thing where it was like to get him to the house?

SPEAKER_03 30:19

But yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:20

Anyway, that's me being nitpicky.

SPEAKER_03 30:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:23

I enjoyed the movie. God, it was hard to watch too when she found that room in his basement.

SPEAKER_00 30:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:29

That was like so much that was like Buffaloville Hannibal Lecter stuff.

SPEAKER_00 30:34

So, but I think I like that in my entertainment experiences. Yeah. You like the Hannibal Lecter? Yeah. A little like body. Well, I don't really do a lot of rom coms. Yeah. I don't do a lot of stuff. I love her thriller.

SPEAKER_03 30:47

See, I'm like, I can enjoy all of it. So I'm so curious about that. Like, because I think you, Josh, like you'll watch some of the rom com stuff with me, but it's not like your thing.

SPEAKER_00 30:56

Yeah, it's just being a good partner. I'm more of a begonia. Yeah, yeah. I want to feel that. Yeah. I want to feel strange. I want to feel different.

SPEAKER_01 31:05

Those dismembered figures. Although that got under my skin in a way that I wasn't necessarily enjoying. Yorgos has a way of like every other movie, it's like, yeah, that like made me feel viscerally gross. And I like, don't know if I love like I'll kind of walk out just feeling like what other things I need to be. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:21

So you're saying this movie made you feel away Pegonia?

SPEAKER_01 31:23

I liked it.

SPEAKER_00 31:24

And now when we're talking about it, I'm like, God, maybe I love this movie. Yeah. I didn't even start the movie. I literally was like doing something else. My wife was watching it, and I kind of just like wandered in and then got ready. Got directed in it.

SPEAKER_03 31:37

He did poor things with Emma Stone. Oh. Which was fabulous.

SPEAKER_00 31:41

Great story, but like just the beginning, unfortunately, like how graphic the beginning is. Well, the whole thing. Yeah. It's just like, oh man, because the story itself and the message, it really is a really cool movie. Yeah, I loved it.

SPEAKER_03 31:56

That movie I loved. Did you see it?

SPEAKER_02 31:57

I didn't, but I remember we talked about it. Yeah.

unknown 32:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:00

And you I remember you saying how gory it was.

SPEAKER_00 32:03

It wasn't gory as much as.

SPEAKER_02 32:05

Or was it?

SPEAKER_03 32:05

It was like fucked up. Like sewing one arm to this. Yeah. Like kind of. But Emma Stone. Incredible. I mean, to play.

SPEAKER_00 32:15

Incredible performance. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:16

She is unreal talent. Is she the muse of this director? Is that is that yeah. Okay. Yeah. She was in the favorite as well, which he did, which I didn't love. You liked it. That I loved. That was about it. That was with uh Olivia Coleman, and she was a queen in like the 13th century.

SPEAKER_01 32:34

Sure. And there's like sex stuff.

SPEAKER_03 32:36

Yeah, she like kind of has a love triangle with her Rachel Vice and Emma Stone.

SPEAKER_02 32:40

Was there some gross like eating stuff in there? That's what I remember talking about. Okay, that's what I remember.

SPEAKER_03 32:46

Lam and cake and then puking into this bucket. He likes a lot of pretty gross stuff. That scene was wild. I was like, I almost wonder if this is historically accurate. Because like the queen was like mentally ill, maybe with a couple different diagnoses. So there it was like binging, and it was like it was an interesting portrayal of like so much stuff that you wouldn't normally see in like a period piece. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, obviously the like lesbian overtones and the love triangle of it all. And yeah. I mean, the acting's really good in that. Maybe I should rewatch that. I just watched Favorite's a little boring.

SPEAKER_01 33:22

Maybe for Valentine's Day. Yeah. Romantic. Yeah. Totally. What else did he make? He made the lobster. He made the lobster, which that one like I want to rewatch. There was the lobster or Colin Farrell. I saw by myself in Los Angeles when I was single, and I walked out just feeling like crap. And I got a piece of pizza and then I felt better. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

SPEAKER_02 33:41

That's with Colin Farrell, right?

SPEAKER_01 33:43

Colin Farrell, but like it's probably a masterpiece. Same with begonia. Like his movies affect me in a way that sometimes I don't enjoy, and like sometimes I love. And it might be depending on my mood.

SPEAKER_03 33:54

Yeah. Yeah, he's got an interesting perspective.

SPEAKER_02 33:57

Well, I don't think Begonia was an enjoyable movie.

SPEAKER_03 33:59

No. That's the thing. It's like I don't think it's a good idea. But that doesn't mean it's not though the whole time I enjoyed it. But that doesn't mean it's not compelling. It's compelling. Yeah. But it's sad. It's yeah. Yeah, like when I watch Almost Famous, which is my favorite movie, I feel like so warm inside.

SPEAKER_02 34:16

And I think after Begonia, I felt like I needed to shower.

SPEAKER_03 34:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:20

Like it's so interesting. Like it's like it feels like gritty. Yeah. And it feels like I have the film, literally the film on me. Like almost that type of sensation.

SPEAKER_00 34:31

That's a sign of a good movie where it's a big thing. Oh, I'm not saying it's bad. It literally alters your like I mean, I remember John and I watched Requiem for a Dream. Oh, yeah. Oh gosh. And then we had to go to like a fraternity meeting right after we watched. And like both of us were like, our heads are just not here right now because that was not like that's a wild experience. Totally.

SPEAKER_03 34:52

Yeah, he likes body horror, that director. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:55

Like nails and teeth chattering, and like not to mention like the bigger Kronos quartet, just that those violins will still get me.

SPEAKER_03 35:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:06

Well, I would recommend watch it if you haven't seen it.

SPEAKER_00 35:08

Pneumonia. Yeah, I gotta watch the favorite apparently. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:12

I have to watch Arrival, which is not one of that director's movies, but side bars.

SPEAKER_00 35:18

Such a good parent movie, too. Yeah. Oh, it's gonna be.

SPEAKER_02 35:22

It hits hard. Yeah, totally hard.

Wise Mind In Education

SPEAKER_03 35:24

Well, should we move into our main topic?

SPEAKER_02 35:26

Our main topic. Yeah, let's talk about wise minds in education.

SPEAKER_03 35:32

Because we have an educator with us. We what we often do is like we'll talk in ways about like how do we find our wise mind with like decision making, that like center, that knowing like part of you. So that idea, where does that come up for you as an educator?

SPEAKER_00 35:49

No, it just doesn't come up at all. Never.

SPEAKER_03 35:52

I really don't.

Classroom Control And Hidden Trauma

SPEAKER_00 35:53

I mean, it comes up in all aspects, right? I mean, when you think about because you gotta you gotta manage your classroom. Okay. And that's the hardest part about being a teacher, right? It's not actually teaching, it's controlling this group of kids. Yeah. You got 20 kids coming from 20 different backgrounds. There's all this like chaos. A lot of it you don't even know about, right? And that's the one of the most horrific things about being a teacher is like when it comes out weeks later that this child's been struggling and you've been kind of oblivious to it. Not because you're a bad teacher, but because that child's put on a mask. Yeah. Because they're at school, they're at their safe place. So they put on a little mask, and then you find out weeks later that they're going through all this trauma and it's just heartbreaking. What was your question?

SPEAKER_03 36:36

Well, I'm curious actually about that. Yeah. And why is mine? Like if you have that situation where you know you have all these kids, it's impossible to be dialed into all their stories, but it is somehow kind of revealed to you like this kid has been going through this trauma. Yeah, what would you do in a moment like that? Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 36:55

I mean, what what what would you want though? If you because okay, so I'm a dad, I got three kids. So I always just revert back to that. When I whenever I'm like struggling with a moment in school on how do I react to this or what to do about this situation, I think about okay, well, if I if this is my child, what do I want the teacher to do? And in that case, you just you try to be as supportive and recognize what that kid needs. Because like every kid needs something different. They might want you to completely ignore them, just acknowledge them at the beginning of class and at the end, but leave them alone. Don't poke and prod. Whereas other kids want to talk about that with you, they want to kind of like explore that. So you almost, I mean, it's probably the same with your clients, where you have to understand each individual person and kind of their personality. Yeah. And that's tricky because that that all goes back. I mean, the biggest thing, my my success as an educator all boils down to my ability to develop relationships with the kids. Yeah. I have a good memory for for names, I have a good memory for what's going on. Kind of like, you know, I try to f remember something about each individual kid that kind of ties me to them. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I kind of lost my train of thought. No, I love that.

SPEAKER_03 38:05

I think that's great. You know what's funny, like working with adults. I'm like so spoiled with working with adults. It's like I'll every intervention I think of for a child, I like think of them as just like an adult, which is not how they operate. You know, it's like where it's like, well, ask, see if you can like ask the kid what they need. But a lot of times kids can't really put words to that.

SPEAKER_00 38:25

Yeah. And sometimes they won't even know that they're upset. I mean, that's the thing, is like they might be dealing with anxiety, but they don't have the ability to put a word to it, right? Us as adults who have thought about our thinking and our emotions, like we have the ability to be like, I am overstimulated right now, I need to leave this room. Like you, you we've we've built those skills. The kids don't have that. Yeah. So it's like they might not even realize, be cognizant that they're upset about something happening at home and they're acting out at school.

SPEAKER_03 38:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:54

Yeah. So it's a lot of reading tea leaves.

SPEAKER_03 38:56

Yeah, I bet. Like really intuiting.

SPEAKER_00 39:00

Yeah. And that goes to, you know, I uh another important part I think of education is building relationships with trusted colleagues. Yeah. Because then you can go to that person and go, hey, like, what's going on with student B? Yeah. Like if you notice, like A, like their fingernails are dirty, like their hair is a little, like you start to like try to pick up on those clues that maybe like the home life, there's not as much structure anymore. Yeah. You know, because it comes out in weird ways. Yeah. So you're just constantly guessing.

SPEAKER_03 39:28

Yeah, it's like you're a detective a little bit. Yeah.

Supporting Kids Without Overstepping

SPEAKER_00 39:33

But then you also have to realize like, it's what what what is really truly your role? Yeah. Yes. I was just right. It's like, am I crossing a line?

SPEAKER_04 39:42

Right.

SPEAKER_00 39:42

You know, like so. If a kid brings a topic up with me, then I will explore that with him, right? So like I have a student whose parents are divorcing. I am divorced. She knows, I mean, I don't hide that fact.

SPEAKER_04 39:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:54

I'm divorced and remarried, but um, they she came up to me and started talking to me about it. I knew that was happening, right? You know, because of this, that, and the other thing. But I don't open that up with her until she opens it up with me.

SPEAKER_04 40:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:06

Because to me, again, like that's that's not my place until she made it my place by opening that door. And I don't continually ask her, but like, you know, I wait for the kid to kind of initiate. Totally.

SPEAKER_03 40:17

Well, that's funny that you say that because like Josh and I both like went through parental divorces when we were younger. Yeah. If it's okay if I say this, I think we both needed totally different things based on what we've talked about with each other. Like, I was the kid who was like, I remember the nurse like called me down and she's like, I talked to your mom. I was horrified. I was like, she knows this info about me. This is humili, humiliating. I had never spoken to the woman before. And she's kind of like, I'm here for whatever you need. And I was like, I need you to not exist and not have just asked me any of those questions. Like, I was truly like shaking. And I think you, like, someone did that to a parent or someone did that to you, and you were like, This is great to talk about, right?

SPEAKER_01 41:01

Yeah, well, I was outed by my friend Matt's mom. We had had a big sleepover with all my guy friends between sixth and seventh grade, which is like when all the madness went down with the divorce and everything. And I feel like these were new friends. I was like just becoming good friends with them, and they're all currently good friends of mine. But it was like the summer that our friendship was blossoming, and like also that my parents got divorced. So I think I had been for a long time toying with the idea of like telling them, but I kind of didn't want to seem like I like wanted attention, but I was like, oh, I like so badly want to process this with them, and like there's so many like interesting things, and like kind of like I feel like it's like kind of funny in like a weird way. Like, I want to like use humor to cope with it. My friends all have like a dark twisted sense of humor, and like I know I could laugh with them about it, but I don't want to be like, oh, poor me. Yeah, and then and then my friend's mom, like we're all coming down and eating ads, and he's like, So, Josh, do you want to talk about your parents' divorce?

SPEAKER_03 41:55

Oh my gosh, and then Matt I would have passed away genuine.

SPEAKER_01 42:00

Well, her son, my friend Matt, shout out Matt, like flipped out on her. She was like, she. He's a therapist now, too. Yeah, he was like, Mom, that is so inappropriate. I think they all had known, and they like didn't know if I wanted to talk about it. And then I was like, honestly, I've been like wanting to talk about this for so long. I just like kind of felt weirdly like self-important.

SPEAKER_03 42:24

Yeah, yeah, liberated you to actually process.

SPEAKER_01 42:26

And like, I don't know, it's like my mom's stuff. Like, there's just a lot of like barriers, but it wasn't that I was if anything, I felt way more comfortable talking about it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:36

And it's like you have to really sense the kid. Like, someone probably would have needed to like be attuned to either of us and notice like, is this a talker? Is this a someone a little more vulnerable?

SPEAKER_00 42:48

Like you brought up a good point because I've seen this happen where people like teachers will overstep because we all, you know, like teachers do know what's going on in the homes. We do talk to each other about what's going on in our students' homes. And sometimes those we're we're all it's coming from the right place. Yeah, totally. But like your experience I've seen happen many a time where it's like, okay, no, no, no, the kid does not want that from you. Like you aren't their person, like not every teacher is a kid's person, right? And not every I'm not the person for every one of my students. Yeah. So again, you have to like understand your role, you have to be mindful of like who you are in that student's life. Totally. Because some of them, I am their favorite. Yeah. Some of them I am not. Right. So if it's one of those kids that like don't look to me for that, like me intruding in their personal space, that would just be Totally. It would throw them off.

SPEAKER_02 43:35

Do you do you think that that's just your being an intuitive person that you are, or does has that come from experience of of knowing when to kind of like that dance of like, oh, this might be overstepping? Like, do do some educators just never get there? No, yeah. I mean, and and is that more of just a product of who you are as a person, or or experience or both?

SPEAKER_00 44:00

Definitely experience for me because I think when you're younger, you just have this kind of feeling like you that's what you want, right? Like when you when I I've always wanted to be a teacher or a marine biologist, but I always wanted to be a teacher. So like I, you know, you have those daydreams about having those moments with the kids, and this kid's gonna come back in 20 years, and all so you're like almost hunting them out, like this is an opportunity for me to be like this, and then you, you know, like I've learned throughout my career, just be patient. Yeah, yeah, you know what I mean? Like know where you are in this role. Sometimes you are the you're the driver, and sometimes you're a passenger, yeah, and just kind of know where you fit because a lot of times the kids will seek you out when they want to talk to you about it. Like again, this this girl that she came up to me in a passing period kind of scenario and brought this up. Yeah, so it's clearly like she wanted to talk about it. She found the, you know. Yeah. Um, and I do try to be very safe. I'm a very safe, for sure, cuddly, warm kind of teacher. I'm not a strict teacher. Discipline is not something I'm good at.

SPEAKER_02 45:06

Well, I think probably the patients thing is probably something you and I have developed with time too. Because I know I was a I'm gonna change everybody as a therapist, and we need to make the intervention now, and we need to like look at all these cool things we could do in therapy and exercises, and it's yeah, it's just not like that, right? And not everybody is open to that even.

SPEAKER_00 45:27

And so you have to build that experience of also getting pushback or overstepping and but then know the experience when there is that moment, yeah, have the experience to understand when there is that moment, you're like, this is now now is the time, right, right and capitalize, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:41

Yeah, right, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:43

Well, yeah, because it's like, you know what's funny? It's like I'm a trauma therapist, okay, and I'll even like in an intake get a sense for like some traumas.

SPEAKER_00 45:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:52

But that's way before even me, as someone they're like an adult, is paying for trauma therapy. I still at that moment don't feel like I have the right to be like, tell me about that trauma. It's more like, what are traumatic experiences? What's your comfort level talking about them? Do you want to go into that? Here's what I think about going into that. Here's what I think about not going into that. Like, we can do whatever, you know, and it's like, if I'm even in a teacher role, it's like it is such a tricky thing. But I do like your idea of like when they give you the signals, yeah. Don't fail them there either. If you if you can't, I mean there's no failure, but it's like push and do the hard thing of like bridging the gap.

SPEAKER_00 46:36

Because you don't get it all the time. You know what I mean? You'd like to think that all the kids are gonna come to you. No, it's like once or twice a year you can have that moment where it's like this kid needs emotional help from me right now. Yeah, yeah. You know, most of the time it's not that. They just have to go to the bathroom.

SPEAKER_03 46:49

Yeah. I gotta use the bathroom.

SPEAKER_02 46:52

Uh, excuse me. Can I get the whole pass? The one thing I was thinking of was you know that Venn diagram, the wise mind Venn diagram? No, like in our logo. Yeah, something like that. Like that. Okay, so like right here, right? Where it's like the wise mind's in the middle, and then like there's I'm like looking at my shirt, but there's like emotion mind in one and like rational minds. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you like lean too heavily into one or the other. Yeah. I was trying to think of like as I was driving over, like in education, are there some things that really lean very emotional? And that makes sense in terms of like the structure of the edge of just education at large, and some things that skew very rational, and then are there just parts that are like, no, that's like a really wise thing that we do as educators. Does that make sense?

Admin Logic Versus Teacher Reality

SPEAKER_00 47:36

Yeah. Well, I mean, when you look at like the administration, so in my role, my role has being kind of this weird role, I've had different through 14 years, there've been parts where I've been a little bit more on the admin side as opposed to the classroom side or vice versa. Yeah. So there, you know, you when you sit in like an admin level meeting, and these are all like teachers who have moved up the ladder, they do tend to forget. Like they be very rational when it comes to like financing. Oh, okay, well, or you know, downsizing. We have four sections of third grade. Let's downsize that to three. You know, so you get a lot of rational decision making. And teachers, though, like boots on the ground, teachers want nothing, like everything's in not everything. A lot is emotional.

SPEAKER_02 48:17

It's emotion. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:19

Well, yeah. What's the emotional cost of oh, there's four classrooms, the budget says three next year.

SPEAKER_04 48:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:27

Like, how many more kids in a classroom?

SPEAKER_00 48:29

Like, what's gonna be an admin? And I I get along with my admin friends, but like there are times where they tend to forget about that. Whereas it's like, okay, what is what is the cost? It's huge going from like a classroom of like 19 to 26. Oh, yeah. And it's like just seven kids, but that can really change the whole dynamic, and it's just a lot more bodies. Yeah, and inevitably then your kids are gonna kind of fall through the cracks. Yeah. It's brutal. It's tough. It's and I mean, you have right now is a tricky time for education, as many of us know. Like a lot at the federal level is impacting us in terms of like monies. Right. Oh, God, yeah. We're we're luckily, I'll say positive things about my district. We they've been pretty good with their finances, so we don't have to lay off a bunch of people. But I know a lot of districts are like firing all their assistant principals, yeah. Or getting rid of all their like, you know, reading specialists or yeah, yeah, that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_03 49:22

Yes, yeah, the specialized well, it's like that's the hard thing. Like, how does one find their wise mind as an educator in a country that's like run by people that value education, loss and loss?

SPEAKER_02 49:33

Yeah, that's the thing. Like the systemic, how do you find your wise mind in systems that are right?

SPEAKER_00 49:39

A lot of teachers, especially now, like I I hear them saying things like, I just close my door and teach. Because it's like if you get too wrapped up in, oh, well, they're gonna downsize, or like it with me, you know, okay, now my position, I've been in the position for 14 years, now I'm gonna have to change. I'm gonna have to go like, you know, so there is that like feeling of I'm just gonna close the door and affect what I can affect in my classroom, which I get. Yeah, I mean, I guess that's just more of like a response to trauma or response to like difficulty. It's like I can't deal with this, right? I can't, what I and I I mean, I'm the same way. There are times where it's like, I gotta just turn off my phone. I gotta just I can't deal with everything coming at me right now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:18

And then I'm sure there's other teachers who maybe like I know I even have friends like this who maybe would that are in the education space would maybe really spend a lot of time suffering about the administration. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:31

Oh, yes. Yeah. There's a lot of people that it really does consume their their work day, and then they talk about it with their significant other, and then they come the next day and they're tired. It's just like they just have to just spew words all the time to for them to process it. Yeah. But it really is. I mean, it's tough.

SPEAKER_03 50:49

I've been that person in a workplace where like stop complaining about the corporate piece. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:55

For sure. You're like almost living off like the fumes of just like.

SPEAKER_00 50:59

Yeah, you almost have to like learn, you know, whatever the serenity prayer, right? There are things in education, in any job, in any job, I have no control over the fact that my job got switched, right? Right. I lobbied, I tried, it didn't work. So now I just kind of have to deal with it. But that doesn't feel great, right? The answer shouldn't be like, oh, I'm just gonna have to deal with this now. And like, how much am I gonna deal with before all I'm doing is just dealing with stuff? Right, right. Like, how much nonsense am I gonna have to accept? Well, I can't really change anything about this, so I just have to accept it before you're like, Well, I'm just rolling over in every situation. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:34

Well, I I mean, I always just appreciate you so much as a person, but also just as an educator, because I feel like you are trying to find that space when you work with people, the emotional you're providing a safe space, but you're also then del because what we haven't talked about is you still have to deliver education to people, right? Because we started by talking about just managing the room, and there's so much that goes into that. But then there's also like, oh, I gotta still like teach them something. Yeah, make choices about what they're about what they're gonna learn and prep for that. So I just have the highest respect because I feel like you're trying to do both, and even having two kids, um, and having dealt with, you know, a handful of teachers, not like so many yet, but there are some that very much skew towards you just have to learn this. There's not a lot of emotional safety, and and that has ripple effects, right? And and certainly the classrooms where, from my experience, my kids feel safe is where there is both, where it's like there's an emotional space in here as well as maybe a little bit more of a reasonable, rational space. And it seems as though that's where my kids learn the best, which makes sense. I feel like that would be the wise mind, almost embodiment in the classroom. Not that it's always like that, but I just feel like if it's too, and then you have classrooms that are just way too chaotic, yeah, too emotionally charged, teachers, and then it's like all over the place.

SPEAKER_00 53:00

You have to adapt to your audience. So, what I mean is like I'm gonna teach uh let's say I'm gonna teach third grade, I'm gonna teach another that like so. In my role, I'll end up teaching all the third grades the same set of lessons.

SPEAKER_03 53:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:14

So, but you have to kind of understand like this class does not, these kids do not respond to tough love. Right? Like these, you know, like these kids need a calm hand, a soft hand. Whereas this this group of kids, they will respond if I get if I raise my voice or if I say, like, I am disappointed with what's happening in this classroom right now. Yeah, yeah. You know, like you have to know, like you have to adjust your delivery kind of base. And I wonder if it's the same with you as therapist. It's like, okay, this person, like you were saying earlier, this person, it's gonna take me five sessions before we can start to talk before they're gonna open up. Whereas some people, like when I went into therapy, I didn't want to, I just I okay, I knew the therapist, let's go. Like, let's start talking about my issues, let's start digging in. Same, but again, like, and every kid's gonna respond differently, whether it be discipline or even the way that you teach. Yeah, you know, because everyone learns differently, right? Whether it be visual or whether reading or hearing it auditory.

Discipline Power Struggles And Parents

SPEAKER_02 54:10

Totally. I don't know. It's just I picked up a Wes Hat band today and I got there for the last like 15 minutes, and his band uh teacher is like the nicest guy. But at a certain point, he like took something and he was like, uh, this is how I'm feeling inside. And he was like, ugh, and then he like threw something on the ground, and all the kids like got silent because it was like he finally kind of was like, Let me show you how I'm feeling inside, you know. And they all started listening, and he was upset because they were like talking in between them, like starting their pieces. But it was kind of that, okay, he needed to like ratchet it up, right? Like what he was doing, which is typically more of a supportive and that does work, but then he kind of like, much like parenting or anything, he was like, I gotta like up the ante here because these kids are just not the problem is with education, is it's the power struggle, like especially some of these rougher kids, they know through their experience that they're not gonna lose the power struggle, right?

SPEAKER_00 55:03

I mean, it's like you know, you can raise your voice, they'll raise your voice. I mean, you don't want to get into that kind of like shouting match with a kid because they can go off, whereas you can get fired.

SPEAKER_03 55:13

So it's like, oh, so it's yeah, and it's almost like to me, when I think about myself, I wasn't a kid who like acted out, and I feel like part of that was like it wasn't like because I was so virtuous, it was like I was I liked a peaceful setting, like you know, like I I want to keep this peaceful, I like peace, I'm comfortable there. Yeah, I that's my comfort. So it was like I had buy-in to what the teacher wanted as well. Like, I don't want everyone yelling in here, that sucks for me, you know. Like, so almost like, and you can't like pick carry pick those kids, like because there are kids that probably feel comfort in like resisting an energy of a teacher. It's like this feels powerful, where else I feel disempowered, you know.

SPEAKER_00 56:00

And they'll just resist you, just to resist you. Like there's nothing like their action, they're what they're trying to achieve is just resistance, right? So no matter what you say, they're gonna just push back.

SPEAKER_03 56:10

Yeah. And there's some level where you gotta roll with that resistance. You gotta roll. Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:15

I feel like a hard, if I were ever an educator, I think a hard, depending on the context, a hard place for me to keep my wise mind would be if I had to like deal with parents a lot.

SPEAKER_03 56:27

It's I think that's why I don't work with the kids.

SPEAKER_02 56:29

I just feel like it would be really hard. And and I can also own my own stuff and know that sometimes I want to lash out at my kids' teachers, and like, you know, sometimes Sarah's like, don't send the email just yet. Not that I'm that parent who's like always reaching out, but like sometimes it's like, hey, like, let me give this parent, or I mean this teacher a piece of my mind. Like, and it's like, okay, that maybe not the most effective thing, but I'm assuming there are parents who it's just gonna be hard to stay in that wise place because they're coming after you. I don't know. I mean, that would just be my game. Oh, yeah. Like it's your fault. But everything. This goes all this is all yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:07

I had a dad one time, like I I cut his son from a basketball team, from the basketball team, and he pulled me into the bathroom. The dad did, showed up the next day to like it's the first day of practice, your son, you know. He shows up, pulls me into the bath, and it's just livid. And it's just like, but through experience, I realized like just take a breath. Yeah, this guy, he's just gonna, he's a firework, like let him extinguish. Yeah, and then just be like, Thanks for your input. I'll see you later. Yeah. He just wanted to like change the rules and yeah, he wanted his son to make the team, and it wasn't fair that his kid didn't make his all the kids' friends made the team. Why didn't he make it? Yeah, you know how that is.

SPEAKER_03 57:44

And it's like the truth is it's not fair, and that's what this experience is. Right. It's like dealing with something that isn't so fair, but it is the policy. Yeah, I think it's like a lot of people have like lost that, like the value in that, in the pain of that. Yeah, like to get cut from a team like that's so valuable for a kid to go through. I know it's so hard.

SPEAKER_00 58:09

Yeah, I got cut from track, which is a no-cut sport. Oh, I got cut from tennis. Oh no. But I do think you're right. I mean, those are those, you know, if we talk about youth sports, there's a whole nother thing. But like you sports are so nice because like education's the long run, right? It's like the effort the kids are putting in today, they might not cash in on that effort for 10, 15 years, right? Like you're gonna learn to read, but you won't see the benefit of like the being a good reader until you're an adult and in a job. Whereas it's like with sports, it's like we're pretty instantaneous. Where it's like you practice shooting, you're gonna get better at shooting, but it also is like instantaneous with like losing or like not getting what you want. Yeah, I think it's so important for kids to have that experience. Yeah, because I can't really facilitate that in the classroom. Like, I'm not a huge teacher that like loves to call, like, I never call on kids when they're like, you know, you know the kids that want to talk, right? And then you know the kids that it would they'd be horrified if they have to talk. Like the idea, and you know, there's those teachers that just blindly call on kids. And that's a that's not very I'm not saying that it's wrong. Like, this is more my philosophy, but like you're putting that kid in a situation where they are tremendously uncomfortable, right? And as a kid who had a difficult time reading, I all I thought about when it was like, okay, we're popcorn reading. All right, Kelly's reading. I know I'm next, I'm gonna start. Like, all I was doing was practicing, yeah. As opposed to listening to what you were doing.

SPEAKER_02 59:34

I'm sure I don't mispronounce something and everybody's gonna laugh at me.

SPEAKER_00 59:37

So I ended up missing out on what I was supposed to learn because I was anxious about the fact that I was gonna have to talk soon.

SPEAKER_03 59:43

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 59:44

The blind call up. The blind call, it's rough.

SPEAKER_02 59:47

The blind call.

SPEAKER_03 59:48

I when I was in college, I took a macroeconomics class with my brother, who was a year older than me at the same school at Washi. Shout out. We were both, it was the only class we took together, and we sat together and he was an engineering major, which they have big classes, and like you can easily kind of get lost in the yeah, you know, and I was an English major, which like I had a classroom of like two kids, one of four kids. Like it was very what school did you go to? Um, Washington University in St. Louis. Oh.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:16

So it's a really good school.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:19

Well, whatever. It's a smaller come on.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:22

We just went through the whole college search with my oldest one.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:25

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:26

Get on board with wash you.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:28

I loved it.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:28

It was wonderful.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:29

But so, like, I was used to that kind of program. That's crazy. So we're like together in one of the classes, and the teacher asks something, or or maybe the teacher even said, like, anyone have an issue with whatever I assigned or something. And I like raise my hand. My brother looks at me. He's like, put your hands down. He's like, never draw attention to us in class. And I was like, Oh, I like literally talk in class all the time.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:54

I mean, I have a podcast now, so that's not when you're with me, you don't.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:59

He literally was like, Are you out of your mind?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:02

That's hilarious.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:03

I was like, Well, I was I didn't know, I needed clarification. It was funny, it was like just like not the as a teacher.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:09

I whenever kids ask questions, it's such a relief. Because again, you know, with the bad reviews, you know someone at least is listening. If they're asking you a question, you're engaged. They're engaged.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:19

Yes, totally. It's not just like people with blank stares. Yeah. I was just thinking about sport. You had mentioned sports because yeah, I sports. I love the idea of like it's immediate and it kind of like gives them like an immediate moment to like figure it out and try to like deal with something that can be really emotionally taxing. I was thinking about that this morning because I remember I played tennis this morning, and I remember how lonely. What you played this morning? I played this morning. Well, good for you, Butz, I love it. But shut up me. Um but I just remember how because I wasn't good in high school and how lonely it felt because you're the only one out there. Like you're on a tennis team, but you're just with your own thoughts. And when it's not going well, it is not going well. Yeah. And you, for me, I don't think I had the mental fortitude at that moment. Like there are there is a reason why people who do individual sports can kind of like show up in those moments consistently and like deal with loss. And I just don't think I had the mental strength, let alone definitely not the physical capabilities of it. But I would love for my kids, they're on teams and they're learning so much, but I would love for them to do like an individual sport as well to kind of feel that loneliness a little bit. I know that sounds callous, but like move through it, but just move through it on your own and be like, you know what, I have nobody to like blame. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? Like, and not that I want them to blame themselves, but I want them to be like, I'm responsible for this, you know. And I I it certainly taught me a lot, just about like humility and and like how to deal with adversity and like shit just doesn't go your way a lot.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:01

And so I or making making a mistake in front of a group of people, you know, missing a shot, missing the game, winning shot or whatever. Yeah, totally. But I don't think, John, like even in high school, you probably didn't have the emotional like IQ to do that yet. You know what I mean? That was probably building that to where you're at today. That those experiences you had in high school were built because like I was on the golf team.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:24

I mean, gosh, that can be lonely too.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:26

The five hours, and you're and again, when you're playing competitive golf, the other people aren't talking to you.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:31

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:32

So now you're playing bad golf, these people aren't talking. It's just and then they're watching your show.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:36

Oh my god, they're just staring at you.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:39

But in retrospect, I'm probably a whole lot emotionally stronger because I didn't endure that kind of stuff. Yeah, and it also teaches me the most important lesson in life is nobody's really paying attention to you anyway. Yeah, I'm like trying to teach this to my kids right now, they're teenagers, so they're like, you know, hyper aware of everything around them.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:55

I'm like, guys, like no one cares, no one really cares.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:58

Yeah, like they'll look at you when you walk by and they'll instantly forget you. Yeah, like that's why I dress the way I dress, and you know, like I don't I don't really care anymore. It's okay. It's fine, yeah. Yeah, that's who you want to be because the real reality is most people aren't paying attention to you.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:16

Well, it's a good reminder for us when we have kids that because sometimes we get lost in that, maybe too. Yeah, like people care about us, right? Oh, you as a parent. Yeah, and then you remind them, and it's a good reminder for yourself to be like, yeah, you're paying for a channel.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:33

You're freaking out at a restaurant.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:35

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:35

And you're like, oh my god, everyone's looking at me, everyone's paying attention to me. Oh my gosh. It's like, no, most people who are parents are going, Oh, thank God it's not me. Yeah, like I have empathy for you. It's total empathy.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:46

That was like my worst fear is like, I'm not gonna take these kids on a plane when they were babies. I was like, I'm not gonna be, I'm dreading this.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:53

And now it's like I have the utmost, I know people are like, Oh, it's so annoying when babies are on the plane. And it is, but it's also like I have so much compassion for those people because I've been there and you know what that's like.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:04

It's like they might be traveling not for fun. They might be traveling for another reason. Exactly. So don't be like, yeah, like this person like chose to have their baby on this plane.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:12

They ruined my bean soup flight. Yeah, they're ruining it.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:17

So I don't want to fly with a kid. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:18

Kids should have their own separate planes.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:21

Yeah. I was on a plane and I heard a baby crying. The kind of crying that's a good one.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:25

What'd you do immediately? Um, get this person off. Stewardess. I was I'm sorry, flight attendant. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:36

The baby was crying, like this kind of crying that I was like, really like, I wonder what is going on for that child. Like just this like agony. I felt it was like overwhelming.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:46

Was it takeoff or flight or descending? It might have been the pressure in the ears. It's so bad.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:52

I mean, it was that that like eh, like just absolutely in so much pain. And I turned to Josh, I was like, that poor baby. And you were like, yeah, if that keeps going, I'm putting my headphones on. I was like, L O L. I was like, oh my God, I was like drowning in empathy. Which is not even always what I do, but like that baby, because it was a little baby, just wailing. I was like, oh my God, the pain they must be in. And the way you were like, if that keeps going, I'm gonna put my headphones on.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:23

Oh, yeah. Yeah. So many examples of my own just like being on flights.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:29

Yeah, I can't imagine. Oh, when we're out with my nieces, it's like I feel pure humiliation. It's just how chaotic they are. Pure. Like the minute we sat down, like my one niece crawls across the table, kicks the water into my other niece all over. This is not a it's an exposure. I mean, I I had a meltdown. Fully Josh had to like reel me back in. Like, it's you're gonna have to Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:54

I remember leaving a full cart at Target that was full of everything. I was like, I picked Wes up and I was like, I can't even make it through the yeah, like I can't make it through the chat. I just had it like he was yeah, it was just like melting down. You know, we're I'm trying to get through the store with him, and I was I just pulled the plug. I was like, I can't, we're not doing this. Yeah, like I just felt like eyes on me, even though it was I mean, it's like tons of kids are melting down in Target all the time. All the time. Yeah. But it's like when it's you and it's your kid, it's like I took it as like so embarrassing. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:30

Yeah, who are these people thinking of me?

SPEAKER_03 1:07:32

Yeah. One of my nieces was having a meltdown, and she was like on the other side of Josh, and she was like really angry, and I saw her like raise her fist to Josh. Oh, she was gonna hit you. And then she just like put her arm down if she didn't do anything.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:45

She just wanted to like if she was like, she's like no calm down, calm down arm.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:51

Like basically, that's what she did. She like quietly lowered. Good regulation there. Yeah, I think, right.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:57

Yeah, she's like, it's okay, we'll deal with it.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:58

It's a growth moment, we'll deal with it later.

Burnout Boundaries That Actually Work

SPEAKER_02 1:08:01

I wonder too, we've seen in our experience a lot of educators dealing with, as everybody does, mental health struggles. Yeah. I think, especially like burnout, anxiety, um, just overall systemic issues that are going on, specifically, probably more with CPS, because that's we work in Chicago, but I know that you were a hobby enthusiast. So I'm just wondering what keeps you maybe uh crispy but not burnt out? Or is there anything that you find that keeps you in more of a headspace that would be nuggets for maybe educators out there, especially maybe new ones in the field?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:42

Or no, first of all, no email like needs to be answered. Yeah. Like after work. Your boss like sends you an email at like five o'clock. It can wait until the next day. Like it really, well This is something everyone needs to do.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:56

Yeah, it's just some like work life balance.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:59

Like are you working to live? Are you living to work? Kind of stuff. But like you don't like you again, we all kind of feel this like heliocentric, like the I'm so important. You know, like I remember one time our I was in charge of the report card and the report card didn't work for the whole school district, and I was like losing sleep. Oh man. And then I had to go in front of the whole staff and be like, hey, it's not working. Yeah. And I was like stressed out, and like 80% of them weren't listening, and the 20% that were were like, okay, fine. And I remember being like, wait, that's it? Like that was right. I thought you'd all like lynch me. You know what I mean? Like, I thought that was it. No.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:38

Be like pitchforks.

Hobbies That Refill The Tank

SPEAKER_00 1:09:40

And that just kind of reiterates the fact that like you don't you're not as important as you as you think you are. Yeah, like I am just a cog in the wheel of my building, right? Like, and if I leave, it's still gonna keep rolling without me. So, like, whether or not I respond to that email, like the three emails I get from parents, or no, it's just not important. You gotta find that work life balance of just turning it off. Because the reality is being at home with your kids and your family or whatever you're choosing to do with that time after work is really what fills your refills your bucket after you dump it out at work. So yeah, I mean, hobby-wise, you know me. I'm an I'm an endless hobby kind of guy. Yeah, what are some of your hobbies?

SPEAKER_02 1:10:24

What is not? I think it'd be a shorter list for what is not.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:27

So, like, I I found that I have to be real restrictive. So I'm a collector. So like I collect cards, but I only collect football cards and old baseball cards, like 1930s, 1920s kind of stuff. 1800s. Because again, I could just go nuts. Yeah. So like I collect rocks, but I only collect like Jasper, agate, and fossils. I don't allow myself any other. But Tom also finds the fossils. Oh, yeah, yeah. He looks for them. Where are you finding fossils? So down in Texas by my in-laws' house, there is a public dinosaur fossil park. And I shouldn't tell people about this, but literally it is they were dredging it in the 1950s, and while they were dredging it, just like you don't have to dig. You walk along the river, and there's just dinosaur bones, and like so, for example, this tattoo, this is good good radio. That's actually a jaw piece that I found. So it's like maybe about I don't know, five inches by four inches, but it's a jaw piece with two two teeth of a mosasaur. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:32

What is the mosasaur?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:33

That's the it's not technically a dinosaur, it's a marine reptile from the time of dinosaurs because dinosaurs live on land, whatever. Oh it's the mosasaurus. Oh no, dinosaurs are well, like if it's in the water, they call it a marine reptile. That's bullshit. Well, uh listen, I don't want to I know that you have a big dinosaur where they're gonna get into it. I don't want to get it.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:56

I feel like the new the new Jurassic Park movies will have some underwater guys, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:01

The underwater guy that jumps out, yeah, bites. That's that but this one, the one I found is a rare one because it's a snail eating version of yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:10

That's I mean, thinking about dinosaur bones.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:13

I never thought in a million years that I'd be able to find because I found like teeth and like vertebrae and stuff like that. It is, I mean, I love it. I literally have a tattoo of it because I love it so much. Yeah, so I'll go down to like here, Maison Creek in Illinois is um a fossil site, so you can find a lot of ferns and and like small bugs and stuff, but that's mainly ferns and plants. But yeah, I like to try to find rocks.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:39

Tom's got a green thumb, he's got plants. I got a lot of bugs and Tom's a woodworker.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:43

New Yorkworker. Have you made do you make furniture or do you I make whatever I want?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:47

So like I do a lot of bird houses because I like bird watching. So I do bird houses, bird feeders in the backyard, and then I do like aquarium fish also. Okay. So I'm I just made like an aquarium, a stand for my because I want to breed some fish now. Wow. Ready for that. So I made like a stand that had, you know, and so I can like Tom's a renaissance. Just kind of just truly. I just like doing that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:11

I love that.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:12

I love it, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:13

I have like no hobbies. I gotta get a hobby.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:16

Tom also come on now. You collect well, you have music that you're into. A lot of music. Play the guitar.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:23

What play the guitar, board games, tons of board games, board game enthusiasts. Yeah, I noticed you guys have some nice, you got Catan over here, code names.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:30

Josh loves Catan. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:31

Do you like that's a classic? Of course.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:33

Okay. Of course. Tom just has shelves in his house.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:36

Yeah, I got like a couple hundred games. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:38

We had a friend. What's our favorite game? We get a friend walk into Tom's house, and the first thing he said was, How much time do you have? And because it's like his house is just stuff. It but it's not like hoarding, it's like very organized, but it's also like you can tell there's a hobby within everything. Like everything takes time and it's cultivated and it's very like thoughtful. And it's like, yeah, like this requires a lot of like time and energy and effort, which I love. It's like very effortful.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:05

Yeah. No, I think there's some wise mind and like hobbies. Because I have a great, great wife, and part of being a good partner to her is understanding that she doesn't want to talk about rocks. Like, she doesn't want to talk about that's fair. She doesn't, she'll give me like three or four minutes to talk about this breeding fish because that's like the hot topic right now. But at some point, you have to, as a partner, know like just because you're passionate about it doesn't mean your partner wants to. And that doesn't make them a bad partner, it just makes them realistic. Totally.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:36

On top of that, he's got the time to listen to every single one of our episodes. Yep. And this is your biggest fan. He also reads every book I give him every year before Christmas. Of course. And I can't say everybody's done that.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:49

And you're a teacher, which really sometimes feels like it's like two full-time jobs.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:53

Yeah, being a teacher's tough. A lot of people take a lot of work home, and that's the thing that really burns back to that idea. Like a lot of teachers, they do all their grading at home or they'll do their planning at home, and that's just like essentially.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:08

And again, like at some point, you're just wasting your time. We only our time is is finite. Yeah. At some point, it's gonna run out. Lean out a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:16

I appreciate your zest for life. Yeah, maybe.

Daylight Saving Time Complaints

SPEAKER_03 1:15:19

Yeah, my god, we could talk forever, but maybe we'll switch to our how-wise is it? Isn't it? Yeah, okay. So, how wise is it to begrudge the spring forward daylight savings change?

SPEAKER_02 1:15:36

Yeah, so we recently had it.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:37

We we recently sprang forward.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:39

Spring forward an hour.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:41

Why did this come to mind for you?

SPEAKER_03 1:15:43

Well, I love spring forward. I truly feel like I love it so much because I like that it stays laid out longer. I see clients at in the evening, like when it's still laid out and I'm done with work. It the change to my mood is profound. And it's invigorating. Yeah, it feels like spring and summer are really coming. And like I feel like lately I've only been hearing people complain about it and losing the one hour of sleep. So, what what do y'all feel?

SPEAKER_02 1:16:14

I think that's uh uh I wouldn't die on that hill about losing the sleep.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:22

One hour?

SPEAKER_02 1:16:22

I don't understand. I don't understand daylight saving to begin with, why we continue to do it.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:28

Well, okay, that's the other question. I I almost feel like it's so unconscious.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:32

It's not a begrudging thing, it's just I don't understand it. Why can't we just have a time that goes all throughout the year and not exactly?

SPEAKER_03 1:16:38

Well, they did it originally to make the working hours have the most daylight. Right. Okay for like people tilling the fields back in the day.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:49

I do recognize it. When I'm out tilling my fields, I definitely can see.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:53

So when we are tilling, so why can't we just keep it at this time now and not go back?

SPEAKER_00 1:16:58

Well, because this is how we've always done it.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:00

Yeah, it's like I think people don't like it. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:02

Episode over. Thank you, blanket for it.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:04

Well, but I think we're gonna hide it. That's it. That's it?

SPEAKER_00 1:17:08

Well, I think it is, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:17:11

There's no purpose for it. I think they voted for the right or like the ability to change it, and then they didn't change it.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:18

I as I said before we even started recording, I have more of an issue when we when we gain the hour. Not lose the hour.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:27

I feel depressed when we gain it because unless we're gonna be able to do it.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:30

That it's gotten better, but that Sunday goes on forever when you have little kids. Yeah, like it will not end. Yeah, and their sleep is messed up, and like it it just like has an impact for me on my household more, and it's because they're getting older, not as much, but like that was always I liked the going forward because they sleep later. Yeah, like I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:55

And it's to me, it's one day of an hour less, and then so many days of like brightness.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:03

I begrudge people who are talking about it like two days after it already happened. Like you're still talking about how tired you are from it. That's where I'm like, we're we've moved off. Like that's this isn't up for discussion anymore. It's another bean, it's independent academy.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:18

It is the bean soon because it really does you have no control over it, you can't affect whether or not, yeah. Okay, you can be upset about it, but does the world need to really know about it? Do you really need to post about it?

SPEAKER_03 1:18:28

Right, right. Well, yeah, the posting. Yeah, and I went to a bridal shower that Sunday morning, and the the host hostess of the bridal shower did say she's like, I forgot that it was the time change, and I made the event start at 11 15. She's like, I probably would have made it 12 15 if I remembered.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:47

That okay, so that actually does matter, I think, in that moment because you do kind of feel in that morning, you feel a little funky.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:54

Yeah, but it's also like she didn't make it at 8 a.m. Yeah, you know, it's like I can get there at 10.15 essentially. If my body's on 10:15 time, like I can get somewhere by 1015 on a Sunday. Whoa, it is really raining out there.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:08

It is I and I would have more of it's see with the falling back, not springing forward because you gain the hour. I would begrudge it if I was like working in like a bar because then it was like, oh man, this sucks.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:23

Those were the best, those were literally the best nights in college.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:26

But if you worked at the bar, you wouldn't want that. Like, because you'd be like, oh, I gotta work. In the fall, you get the extra hour. So instead of the bars closing at two, like they normally do, closing at three. I mean, they still close at two, but it's like they're closing at three. So you got like one extra hour like at the bar. So I'd be I'd be really upset if I was like if it affected like a work shift. Yeah, but then if you were partying, you'd be like, Yeah, maybe I just begrudge the fall behind. I don't care about the spring forward.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:00

Yeah, I that's exactly how I feel.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:02

I like it.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:02

Yeah, I don't think it's wise to I don't think it's wise to waste your mental energy on this. Yeah, not our mental energy. I like this. No, yeah. But I'm saying, like, if you're getting upset about that, like, are you upset about the rain when it falls? Like, come on. Yeah, like at some point.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:18

Maybe it's something to be upset about that's safer than being upset about like what's really going on in the world. Yeah, this is like yeah, so it's like I want to be upset, but I don't want to talk about the things that are truly upsetting because I might not get out of my bed. So um, let's talk about this together. About this, yeah. Well, we lost an owner, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:40

Sleep. Yeah, it's like it's okay. And maybe I can take a lesson in like not judging those people too much and spending too much mental energy. Let's not go there. We can judge all of your minds, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:20:52

That non-judgmental episode, we that's in the can. We're not doing that.

unknown 1:20:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:56

I mean, I truly want to hear people complain about it. I want to like pull them aside and be like, can I explain what this is to you? You know, just because like you're not gonna feel this way in 10 seconds when I tell you that like you're getting the whole summer into the fall of like light, sunlight.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:11

Even the first day of it, that Sunday, when it was like you noticed right away. I mean, it just happened to be a really nice day on Sunday, but also like it was like wow, it's light out.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:22

Yeah, the sun hits my house differently. It definitely hits your house. Yes. So then at dinner time for sure different.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:28

Yeah, totally just hits it.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:32

I love it. Okay, well, we're settled. We know.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:34

So it's not wise.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:36

It's not wise. No, I think it's wise to accept it. So people just need to keep it to themselves, embrace it, yeah. Or or we'll blast you on this podcast.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:45

Yeah. I also, for some reason, I always have this funny vision of you know how like if you ever read an article about daylight saving, it's always like, it starts at 2 a.m. Like that's when the clocks go back. So I always had this like funny image of like somebody like setting their alarm to get up just to like turn their clocks back instead of just like doing it in the morning. Like it's always just kind of like, oh, 2 a.m. Like somebody who's very fastidious.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:09

Yeah, are all your clocks set correctly? Like in your clock. Have you already set them? I mean, uh your phone does it itself, but like Josh, did you change our clocks?

SPEAKER_03 1:22:16

You did, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:22:17

Oh, yeah, they're changed. Yeah, perfect. He got up at 2 a.m.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:20

Yeah, it was Josh.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:21

Remember, I was under the bed.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:24

I heard him there. Shuffling. I heard him shuffling around, changing them clocks. Wait, do you have any other than your stove? I've been in the microwave. Microwave, your coffee maker.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:35

Coffee maker, does it have a clock on it? Oh, it does. Yeah, I changed that clock. Wow, this guy's on top of it. He's good. Yeah, oh yeah, he's really good at the clock.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:44

I'll I'll leave like especially like analog clocks that are like on the wall. I just leave them. Yeah, nobody's looking at them. They're just they're literally there for art. They'll be right again in six months. So yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:56

Okay, well, we settled it. We did it as usual, and that's really our episode. Thank you so much for joining us.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:04

Yeah, this has been a treat. It's been a long time coming. I wanted to get Tom on. Yes, it was wonderful. I'm glad it was in person.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:11

Yeah, me too. Oh, yeah, you have to do it in person. You can't zoom, you can't zoom like this kind of thing, especially because I've never I haven't met you two. Yeah, right. So it's like to try to have a conversation and like I said, I interrupt a lot and I kind of so to do that on Zoom, it just gets bored.

Plugs Listener Questions And Goodbye

SPEAKER_03 1:23:27

We interrupt a lot, yeah. I do for sure. You're the best. Yeah, well, tell us, is there anything you want to plug? Like your social media?

SPEAKER_00 1:23:35

I don't have any social medias. Oh, you don't? No, but you can come to the Ascone rock show. Uh it's I think in March 20th and 21st at the DuPage County uh fairgrounds. Wow, it's like a little festival. It's a rock show. Are you selling rocks? We are not. I was assignments. I usually sell. Don't you usually sell? Don't you usually sell it? We usually sell, but my sister-in-law is in town, and that's the priority number one to obviously spend time with her. So we are not gonna sell at this show, but I'm just plugging it as an ISCO. I love it.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:08

I love it. The rock show. Okay, amazing. Do we like bands?

SPEAKER_00 1:24:11

Yeah, no, literally. It's like a rock show. We have nothing else to plug though. What do you guys have to plug? You go first.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:20

I always just say contact me. Butz. Jonathan at gmail.com. Give us your questions. How wise is it? Tell us how you feel about daylight savings or bean curd soup. Bean soup. What about you?

SPEAKER_03 1:24:34

Um, if you want to reach me, you can find me at kkpsychotherapy.com. If you want to work with me or yeah, questions about the pod, anything really, just shoot me an inquiry there. And last but not least, Jishi.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:48

I'm gonna I'm gonna go ahead and plug the new Sturgil Simpson album. He doesn't go by Sturgil Simpson anymore. I think because he hates the music industry, and the album's only on YouTube.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:59

What does he go by now?

SPEAKER_01 1:25:00

He's going by Johnny Blueskies, and it has been described on YouTube. The album is called Mutiny After Midnight, and it has been described on YouTube. I think the number two comment was uh I didn't know that uh horny country disco was a genre. And the number one comment was uh my neighbors liked this album so much they called the cops to come listen to it with me. So anyway, it's been I've listened to it probably 10 times. So look up Johnny Blueskies. Johnny Blue Sky's Mutiny After Midnight on YouTube. Maybe eventually it'll be on um streaming, but it's not. Okay. But I love it. Love it. Uh yeah, you can reach me at joshbayerfilms.com. Bayer is in the aspirin. If you want to reach out to be a guest on the show or even just to ask me to edit something or film something. Totally. And thank you to blanket for it. And thank you to blankets.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:52

Thank you to blanket for it's music.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:54

Okay, we'll catch you next time, everyone.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:57

Bye.

unknown 1:25:58

Bye.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:00

The WiseMind Happy Hour podcast is for entertainment purposes only, not to be treated as medical advice. If you are struggling with your mental health, please seek medical attention or counseling.