the wisdom of ADULTING

#adulting...WHAT IS IT?

- music by blanket forts -

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:05

Welcome to the Wise Mind Happy Hour. I'm Kelly.

SPEAKER_02 0:08

I'm Josh.

SPEAKER_00 0:10

Yeah, welcome. It's we have Josh here tonight this evening. Instead of John, um, we've had like a weird schedule. So sorry, I feel like my throat is dry.

SPEAKER_02 0:22

Oh, that's okay.

SPEAKER_00 0:23

We have a weird schedule, so our podcast recording schedule has been off a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 0:30

It's been awful.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

It's been awful. It's been um just unusual.

SPEAKER_02 0:35

Mm-hmm. Weird.

SPEAKER_00 0:37

Weird, you might say. Um, so yeah, so tonight Josh and I are doing an episode and we're so excited about it.

SPEAKER_02 0:46

How do you feel? We're gonna talk about lettuce and um is it wise?

SPEAKER_00 0:53

Yeah. How eyes is it? Lettuce.

SPEAKER_02 0:55

Lettuce, let us pray.

Appendectomy Recovery And Gratitude

SPEAKER_00 0:58

Um, yeah, so let's check in a little bit. Well, wait, Josh and I talked about checking in actually ahead of recording. Because we have had an interesting week. Checking in. And I think I'll speak for myself that I am not totally ready to like fully process this on the pod. Maybe I never will, and maybe that's like completely unnecessary. But a spoiler, I had my appendix out last week, right after my birthday. Happy birthday. Happy birthday to me. Um, should we sing? Yeah, yeah. Or we could like sing a funeral song to my appendix.

SPEAKER_02 1:35

Happy sad appendix. Outside.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

But yeah, so it was, you know, anyone who's had their appendix out, which is Josh informed me, is like about 10% of people, um, which is pretty high. That is high. You know, it is surgery, it's like minor surgery, but I'd never had surgery, and yeah, it was like pretty intense and like jarring, and it all happened kind of fast once they saw on my CT scan that I had appendicitis. So pretty overwhelming. I'm still recovering and yeah, still pretty sore and like still just kind of emotionally rattled, I would say, from it and trying to kind of like come back to real life and fragile. A little fragile. Like I'm not fragile as a person, but I think it's like rattling. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 2:30

It's white fragility.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

Exactly. It's my it's my white fragility. Um, no, it's just really yeah, I feel a little bit not myself. But I I also feel like myself. It's it's like a confusing thing. And I may I may talk about it on the pod, but not today. Not today, I don't think.

SPEAKER_02 2:55

Um maybe tomorrow.

SPEAKER_00 2:58

Yeah, I will say what was so nice was like having you there with me as my husband, like right by my side. The entire experience was so wonderful.

SPEAKER_02 3:09

As your husband. As my husband.

SPEAKER_00 3:11

I was playing the role of husband, but it like that felt different instead of you just being a boyfriend, a partner. Like being my husband or my like long-term committed partner really felt it just felt so comforting in this really special way to have you, especially because your energy was so like you made me laugh a thousand times. Which now hurts. Yeah, now it kind of hurts to laugh. I mean, it does hurt to laugh. Yeah, especially if like I've noticed if someone says something really unexpected and funny. I'll I think I laugh the hardest when someone does that. And I truly have to like hold my stomach. It's so painful.

SPEAKER_02 3:52

Yeah. Um, but if it's expected and funny, then it's not quite as it's maybe just not as funny. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:59

So I'm kind of like able. But every day laughing gets a little bit easier.

SPEAKER_02 4:05

I'm gonna take that out of context.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

I sound like I have like as the most severe depression there can be. Yeah. It's really just like a giant open wound. Not a relearning how to laugh. Yeah. I have three incision points from it, three scars, which like I feel like they didn't totally explain. Well, I mean, she I'm sure she did explain it, but I was like really out of it.

SPEAKER_02 4:26

I feel like the explanation was something along the lines of there's gonna be one scar, but there will be three scars.

unknown 4:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:33

Yeah. But I will say, like, the medical team and the surgical team and Northwestern were lovely. I I like 10 stars. I they were so comforting and capable and and really great. I shout out to them. I was trying to think of another C word for the alliteration.

SPEAKER_02 4:51

Comforting, capable, and compassion, kind wait, compassionate, compassionate, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:58

They were great, so shout out to them. Yeah, charisma. Sometimes you it's sometimes you hear not like the best things about certain hospitals, and and I have heard them sometimes about Northwestern or people who've worked there saying it was like a tough environment. But honestly, I really appreciated everyone we encountered. Well, they say people be throwing up. Oh, one of the nurses was like, Have you been around anyone sick? And we were like, Oh, well, I was around my I was like, I was around my niece right after she threw up, and she just goes, Kids be throwing up. And I was like, true bat. Can't argue with that. Like kids really be throwing up, and and then they're fine. Like sometimes they're not, but like there's a lot of like kid throwing up, and then they're like back on the soccer field a second later.

SPEAKER_02 5:48

Yeah, well, that was kind of you, yeah, until cut two, you're off the soccer field.

SPEAKER_00 5:54

Yeah, yeah, you're yeah, that's I surprise you with that humor. Oh god, I'm sorry, it did hurt a little bit. Um, but yeah, yeah, there was some TMI bits involved in this experience, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:08

That's too much information if you were born yesterday.

SPEAKER_00 6:13

If you're a gen Z, maybe you don't use TMI. Oh well, yeah. Yeah. If you're on TikTok, TMI is like the only way to live, is giving too much information about everything. I'm a little more like TMZ. Yeah, yeah. We're of the TMZ generation.

SPEAKER_02 6:27

Too much Zen.

SPEAKER_00 6:29

I like that. What does actual TMZ stand for?

SPEAKER_02 6:33

I'm realizing I don't know. Teenage mutant Zen.

unknown 6:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:38

Apparently, Zen is the only Z word. Yeah. Zebra.

SPEAKER_00 6:43

It's the only one you can think of. Yeah. Um I think remember Searsha saying, I don't know how to do a Z. Oh yeah. Yeah, because what word was she trying to spell? C's. My mom thought she was trying to spell the word C. S-E-I-Z-E. And my mom's like, is that a kindergarten word? And she's like, yeah. And then my mom spells it that way, and she goes, Z. Oh my god. There's four R. C's S-E-E-S-S-E-A-S-E-I-Z-E. What else?

SPEAKER_02 7:12

C E A R S E. C S and Desist.

SPEAKER_00 7:16

Well, C S is different than C's.

SPEAKER_02 7:19

Not if you're from Michigan.

SPEAKER_00 7:21

Not if you're in kindergarten. But yeah, Circia didn't know how to do Z, but I think she learned that day, even though my mom was spelling the wrong version of it.

SPEAKER_02 7:33

And now she'll seize the opportunity. She'll always seize the opportunity.

SXSW Premiere And Mixed Reviews

SPEAKER_00 7:38

Yeah. She'll remember that word forever and use it correctly the next time we see her. Because that's Circia. She's a genius. Yeah, she is. She's special. All those girls, so special. So special. Um, okay. So let's so that uh, you know, I'm saying I wasn't gonna talk about the appendix appendicitis, and of course now I'm talking about it a little bit. But yeah, that's I mean, I had the surgery, I'm I'm recovering from it now, and I'm doing okay. I'm hanging in there. But yeah, let's check in with you a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 8:05

Whoa, Josh, what have you been up to? Oh, just south by southwest. Uh okay, moving on. But yeah, my Rod Serling documentary that I edited, premiered in this last week. Um, uh coming out to mixed reviews online. Oh no, I think they're overall pretty positive. Oh, good. Okay. I mean everything has there was one review that said this is a shell. It said, it said Rod Serling, the documentary, is good, but it's kind of a good shell.

SPEAKER_03 8:41

Hmm.

SPEAKER_02 8:42

As in, I think What does that mean to you? Yeah, well, they explained it. Um that would be strange if that and they were just like, okay. But uh no, I think I feel like the main critique that I saw was kind of that there wasn't too much surprising in it.

SPEAKER_00 9:00

Oh, it didn't surprise.

SPEAKER_02 9:01

And it's like the it feel people were one review was kind of saying it feels like the target audience is fans of the Twilight Zone, which Rod Serling created. But if you're a big fan of the Twilight Zone, you're gonna know everything that's in this.

SPEAKER_03 9:12

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 9:12

And if you're not, you're not gonna want to watch it. Basically, people were like, Where's the drama?

SPEAKER_00 9:18

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 9:20

But the most positive review described it as a heartbreaking, dreamlike cerebral exploration into Rod Serling's mind that kind of deals with issues of mortality in a way that um made her uh think about her own mortality and get super emotional.

SPEAKER_00 9:44

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_02 9:45

Bye. Love you.

SPEAKER_00 9:49

But yeah, so you went to South by.

SPEAKER_02 9:51

So I went to South by and it was really, I mean, well, I abandoned you. Which we must say.

SPEAKER_03 9:58

You did so.

SPEAKER_02 10:00

I'm sorry. We're doing the pod, so I know your health does matter to me more than the pod. So should I like turn a corner and become a little less funny?

unknown 10:11

No, no.

SPEAKER_00 10:12

Okay, but yeah, so you you did well, we had a tough decision in front of us with you know, your movie premiering. It's such an honor to be selected, your free film to be selected for South by Southwest. We both were gonna go. You know, your mom and grandparents were meeting you there. You know, there were a lot of like factors to consider. And so I I encouraged you to go. You were ambivalent and you went. And like in reflecting afterwards, we thought, you know, maybe next time you know, like both of us have something to work on there. Like maybe I'll insist that you stay and like let myself be the patient and be as like rattled and not okay as I was. And you know, like for me, when you're not okay like that, you really like need your partner.

SPEAKER_02 11:06

Yeah, well, I feel like I would have been happy to be here.

SPEAKER_01 11:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:11

And I do th I I know I was saying that I'm gonna die, and this will have been a regret that I went. Um, because I abandoned you.

SPEAKER_00 11:19

Yeah, you did say that as a direct quote.

SPEAKER_02 11:21

Uh but perhaps it's meaningful that I went and it's a learning experience. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:28

Um, it's a dialectic.

SPEAKER_02 11:30

I'm now skipping my cousin's Jake Bachelor party to uh be here with you and and support you.

SPEAKER_00 11:35

Yeah, yeah, which I really appreciate. Yeah. And and I think both of us did a good job of, you know, like reflecting and thinking, like, if if you go again, like I think it's gonna be really hard and I'm gonna feel really not supported.

SPEAKER_02 11:51

I feel like with big life decisions, you just need to be a little bit more like you are with like the eggs. Like, can you make me the eggs at 705?

SPEAKER_00 11:59

Yeah. And I'll be like, yeah, sure. Yeah, like baby princess.

SPEAKER_02 12:03

Yeah. Like baby, yeah, a little baby princess.

SPEAKER_00 12:07

Yeah, sometimes I have trouble being baby princess and like really like saying, you know, like I really need your help here. Can you like make this sacrifice for me? You know, I can kind of insist that someone do the opposite of what I actually want them to do.

SPEAKER_02 12:24

Do you think this would be a deaf transition into our topic?

SPEAKER_00 12:28

Yeah, I guess totally. I think it would be.

SPEAKER_02 12:30

Okay.

What Adulting Really Means

SPEAKER_00 12:31

Yeah, let's do it. Our topic today is adulting. The concept of adulting and like both of our interpretations of it, experiences of it. And I can talk about a little bit in the clinical setting too, how I have talked about this and have guided people in this or you know, process this with people. But yeah, when you hear the word adulting, what comes up for you?

SPEAKER_02 12:55

Adulting. Okay. I'm cosplaying as an adult. Yeah, LARPing as an adult. LARPing was the word I was trying to think of. FLARPing. LARPing. And it's tongue-in-cheek. I feel like adulting, it almost always has air quotes around it. Yeah, totally. Which maybe is redundant. Yeah, like the purpose of air quotes. Like I'm being ironic. It's like, just say I'm being ironic. Yeah, it's like Does that mean you're not being ironic?

SPEAKER_00 13:26

So-called is almost like what it is. So why are we putting the air quotes around adulting?

SPEAKER_02 13:32

Because I feel like someone who would want to adult. Well, A, it's not a word. Would you put air quotes around six seven? I would never really write it, I don't think. I've written it a lot. I guess that's one of the main differences between us.

SPEAKER_00 13:51

Yeah, I guess maybe I would. I guess maybe I would for 67.

SPEAKER_02 13:56

I wrote for 6'7. Yeah. Original Queen. Yeah. Why are we putting air quotes around it? A, it's not a word.

SPEAKER_01 14:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:04

B adulting, I think, implies that you maybe feel you have some growing up to do, or perhaps you're in a transitional stage where you still maybe you're in college and we're gonna have a dinner party, and it's the first dinner party we've ever had.

SPEAKER_00 14:19

Yeah, it's like a a pretense a little bit of being an adult.

SPEAKER_02 14:24

Like you don't hear like grandparents being like, I'm adulting, I have my family over for a barbecue.

SPEAKER_00 14:29

It's isn't it so funny? Like if we like imagine, like just forecast like a Gen Zers being in their 70s, like they're gonna be like, LOL adulting.

SPEAKER_02 14:38

Yeah, no kids, no price. Lol.

SPEAKER_00 14:43

What is you know, it's like not me adulting.

SPEAKER_02 14:47

Oh my god, I don't even know what that is. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:50

They're gonna, yeah, it could be very interesting, but then that will seem old to like the actual young generations of that time. But anyway, I digress.

SPEAKER_02 14:57

Not me?

SPEAKER_00 14:58

Like, not you laughing, making me laugh today.

SPEAKER_02 15:03

Is that like POV adulting?

unknown 15:06

No.

SPEAKER_00 15:07

Okay, you haven't heard like like Gen Zears be like, not you clapping when no one else did. You're like kind of this sounds vaguely familiar. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:19

Not both of you tripping on the way to the bar. Is that a double negative? No, that's a single negative.

SPEAKER_00 15:25

Yeah, it's like I'm having trouble explaining it and not just using the example. I mean, our Gen Z listeners, you know what I'm saying. You feel me? Call us. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:34

You got my number.

SPEAKER_00 15:36

Help me explain this because that my knowledge has reached its threshold.

SPEAKER_02 15:40

We need more Gen Z guests.

SPEAKER_00 15:42

Yeah. I think that'd be great. I mean, Sam is Gen Z, I believe.

SPEAKER_02 15:47

We love Sam.

SPEAKER_00 15:48

Oh, this is another thing, and this came up at the hospital. These days, a lot of Gen Zers are not wanting to claim Gen Z. They all say, like, oh, I'm on the cusp.

SPEAKER_02 15:57

Cuspy.

SPEAKER_00 15:57

And I'm like, you are straight up 10 years younger than me. How are you on the cusp? Then they're not on the cusp. Then I think they're solidly Gen Z and they maybe just want to be millennial. People cannot decide if they hate millennials or they all want to be us.

SPEAKER_02 16:10

Isn't that the existential question?

SPEAKER_00 16:12

I guess people can't decide if they hate Gen Z or they want to be them.

SPEAKER_02 16:15

I feel like people can't decide if they hate themselves or if they love themselves.

SPEAKER_00 16:18

It's very true. That that's the crux of it.

SPEAKER_02 16:22

I just filled out my psych intake form today. Does that do psych intake what I what are the terms for those? Psych intake.

SPEAKER_00 16:27

Like you're being psychiatrically hospital.

SPEAKER_02 16:29

I'm starting with a new therapist. Shout out therapist.

SPEAKER_00 16:32

Yeah, Josh is a new therapist. Really exciting.

SPEAKER_02 16:34

Yeah, so I was filling some forms out. And I feel like some of the questions I was like genuinely like asking myself, I was like, do I think very highly of myself or do I like think I'm an absolute failure? And they kind of were putting things in a binary way. Like, what were some of the questions? It's like, do you on the whole feel like you're a failure?

SPEAKER_03 16:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 16:58

And just days ago, I feel like I had told you about 20 times in a row, like, I'm a total failure. You deserve better.

SPEAKER_00 17:05

Um and you abandon me.

SPEAKER_02 17:08

Well, you always deserve better, but like I could say with more levity.

SPEAKER_00 17:12

But you were you were very activated and saying things that in a non-activated state you don't believe.

SPEAKER_02 17:18

Well, yeah, it's like 48 hours later, and I'm filling out this form, and I I kind of felt I felt see, this is my OCD. I was like, well, I feel like I'm a hypocrite because just two days ago I said I'm a total failure. But in this moment, and then I was like, am I just like filling this out in like a good mood?

SPEAKER_00 17:34

No, I think it's like you're more clear today than you were then.

SPEAKER_02 17:39

I think more often, really, really guilty. I think well, yeah, one of the questions was like, How often do you feel guilt? And I was like, pretty frequently.

SPEAKER_00 17:48

How much time do you have? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:51

Yeah, 10 days out of seven.

SPEAKER_00 17:54

Ten days out of nine.

SPEAKER_02 17:56

28 days later.

SPEAKER_00 17:58

I still feel guilt. Totally. Yeah. Um, we just went off on a tangent there.

SPEAKER_02 18:04

That's called recording the pod with Jish.

SPEAKER_00 18:06

Yeah. Um, adulting.

SPEAKER_02 18:08

Adulting. Well, I want to compare it to shrinking. No, I'm just kidding. I don't want to go off on another tangent.

SPEAKER_00 18:14

But wait, wait, where how did we get to where we just got? Oh, we were talking about Gen Z. Gen Z. Yeah, if you hate yourself or love yourself, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:23

So does Gen Z like adulting?

SPEAKER_00 18:26

Oh, yeah. Well, so I I think I actually do think that maybe the term adulting probably came up with millennials. Came up with millennials? Like like millennial the millennial generation.

SPEAKER_02 18:38

Came up with millennials. Yeah, does it be a good one? Yeah. I I thought you were never mind. I heard it in a weird way. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 18:43

Yeah. Um, but yeah, like I I think the idea is like it is a little like lol. I'm doing adult things, even though I don't feel like an adult. Hashtag adulting. And and those adult things being, you know, getting my car, like my uh city sticker, you know, um buying a home. I mean, I buying a home is like way too far. I think when someone's using terms like adulting, they're not quite that advanced. Fantasizing. Maybe it's like home decor, getting into that. It's putting up a tapestry. I feel like that's kind of college.

SPEAKER_02 19:25

Well, okay.

SPEAKER_00 19:28

But let's then like like it would be it would be a lot of like maintenance, plumbing. Yeah, I mean, sure.

SPEAKER_02 19:35

Like fixing a sink.

SPEAKER_00 19:36

Yeah. Yeah, calling a guy to help you do X.

SPEAKER_02 19:40

Yeah, calling a guy.

SPEAKER_00 19:42

Yeah, having someone uh do your taxes, doing your own taxes, like stuff like that would be like adulting.

SPEAKER_02 19:48

Switching off your parents' health insurance, yeah, yeah. Navigating that for the first time.

SPEAKER_00 19:53

Yeah, yeah, like buying your own things, getting your own things fixed, grocery shopping. Yeah, I guess that could be adulting.

SPEAKER_02 20:01

Making a owner.

SPEAKER_00 20:02

Trying to think like when someone tells me they did a lot of adulting in a day.

SPEAKER_02 20:06

Dinner party feels like at the crux of it to me.

SPEAKER_00 20:09

Yeah, dinner party hosting, a dinner party hosting wine and cheese. It's applied a lot of times to like menial tasks. Becoming an alcoholic.

unknown 20:18

Totally.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

Um but yeah, I think it's like or like maybe making big purchases like I bought a new bed or I whatever. Like bought a subscription to Amazon, maybe Prime. There's some things that are just like everybody's doing it, adult or not. But like what I'm curious, like your when you do these like adulting tasks, what is it like for you?

SPEAKER_02 20:46

It's exhilarating.

SPEAKER_00 20:48

Yeah. Oh my god, tell us.

SPEAKER_02 20:50

Well, I feel I'm associating this with when I moved to Los Angeles because I have a very um supportive mother.

SPEAKER_00 20:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:59

Um I was I wrote a poem about this. Like, didn't know how to use the microwave until college. Uh that's probably till seventh grade. Didn't know how to use the microwave until seventh grade. Didn't know how to do laundry till college. And I'm not exaggerating, but it wasn't that I was incapable. I think so many things were taken care of for me. So I think it was nice to be in a position where I really had to take care of things for myself for the first time.

SPEAKER_00 21:25

So that was kind of your first foray into like I'm far away from home. I've got to kind of do this stuff on my own.

SPEAKER_02 21:30

Yeah, which of course I did a bit of in college. Like, I'm I I have to think harder to come up with examples, but I just know off the top of my head that I did. Um, but I don't want to spend more time thinking. But I would bring my hamper of laundry home. Cause I went, I I live I went to school, college school at uh University of Michigan.

SPEAKER_00 21:49

Oh my god, college school.

SPEAKER_02 21:50

College school, and I saw band concerts.

SPEAKER_00 21:53

College school.

SPEAKER_02 21:54

Yeah, but I was 45 minutes away from home. So I would like save up my laundry because I'd be home, you You know, and we'd probably do a lot of laundry. I'd be home at least once a month.

SPEAKER_01 22:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 22:04

And sometimes more. So I would hoard my laundry in the hamper, I'd bring it home, and my mom would do it. But that's not true. I I'm wait. You didn't have to do that. Am I mixing up memories? No, I don't know if I ever did it at Michigan.

SPEAKER_00 22:18

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_02 22:19

It's possible I never did my laundry until I moved to Los Angeles.

SPEAKER_00 22:22

Wow. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 22:23

Which is like disturbing.

SPEAKER_00 22:25

I mean, it's okay.

SPEAKER_02 22:26

But you wouldn't like think that about me now. You wouldn't think of me now as someone who doesn't know how to do his laundry.

SPEAKER_00 22:31

No, I wouldn't.

SPEAKER_02 22:32

So I can no longer be adult.

SPEAKER_00 22:34

Except we did have all those laundry issues.

SPEAKER_02 22:38

Oh shoot. Thank you. With the mold. It's that black mold.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay.

SPEAKER_02 22:45

Sorry. I'm quoting Twin Peaks.

SPEAKER_00 22:47

I can't laugh. Um what was I gonna say? No, I don't think of you as someone who doesn't know how to do your laundry, despite despite our issues.

SPEAKER_02 22:57

Well, we all have issues.

SPEAKER_00 22:59

Of course.

SPEAKER_02 23:00

Well, I could have body odor, it doesn't mean I don't know how to shower.

SPEAKER_00 23:03

Yeah. Well, you know, I think what you're saying is interesting. Like, you know, going to school so close to home and having a really supportive family just made it a little easier for you to not embrace like those adulting things in college, like at that age. Right.

SPEAKER_02 23:21

Yeah, I think I wasn't. I mean, when was I? Yeah, LA, I was into it. You know, not necessarily. I even got into interior design in a way, which you can listen to my sister's speech of our wedding, but I was hanging up my used uh boxers that had lost their elasticity, and you know, I wouldn't even call that like home decor.

SPEAKER_00 23:41

That was like a modern art.

SPEAKER_02 23:44

It was some form of adulting.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

Was it?

SPEAKER_02 23:46

I was decorating my room.

SPEAKER_00 23:48

I mean, Josh.

SPEAKER_02 23:50

I can be weird and be adulting.

SPEAKER_00 23:52

Right, right. Sure. I think actually, no. I I think that there is in this concept we're talking about. I think we are kind of talking about like joining the horde of like boring adults and doing boring adult tasks. That's an interesting differentiation. I I think, I mean, like I I did like kind of look into like internet definitions on this, and and when it's like quote unquote adulting.

SPEAKER_02 24:15

Norm core.

SPEAKER_00 24:16

Yeah, there's like a norm core element to it.

SPEAKER_02 24:19

And so really till I met you, I feel like my experimental roots were pretty intact.

SPEAKER_00 24:24

Yeah. So maybe a lot of the adulting was well, but you d I know you did adulting in LA because you bought a car.

SPEAKER_02 24:32

Well, yeah, it was more practical things that needed to be done. Yeah. That I felt exhilarated when I navigated by myself. Yeah. Like negotiating with a car dealer and like getting the price down.

SPEAKER_01 24:43

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 24:43

Without my mommy there beside me.

SPEAKER_01 24:45

Totally.

SPEAKER_02 24:46

Receiving a lot of guidance. I'd be on the phone with my stepdad who's a lawyer and be like, okay, how should I play this?

SPEAKER_01 24:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:51

Okay, here's what he said. How should I play this? But you know, I was going in myself and doing it.

SPEAKER_01 24:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:55

And seeking advice.

SPEAKER_00 24:57

Right.

SPEAKER_02 24:58

But yes, car was purchased.

SPEAKER_00 25:01

But you think you did you do more now, like in our life together, adulting?

SPEAKER_02 25:07

I think my interior decor taste has morphed. Yeah. Into what yours is. Into just fully folding into yours. Sorry. Sorry, sorry, sorry. But it's so cozy. Like, I gotta say, I've never had such a cozy home.

SPEAKER_01 25:23

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:24

I mean, sure, my child, whatever. Mom, I loved her. You you know what I mean. Since I've been an adult.

SPEAKER_00 25:29

Yeah, your own home.

SPEAKER_02 25:30

Since I've had my own home. Yeah. This is by far the coziest home I've ever lived in. And yeah. I'm at the stage for this. I think I had my stage where I wanted to feel like the starving artist. Yeah, totally. And home was just like where you hang your hat, kind of thing. Exactly. And there was a certain almost pride in that of like, wow, I'm saving so much money because I'm decorating my wall with like, you know, maps from Universal Studios and the Harry Potter of Chocolate Frogs box.

SPEAKER_01 25:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:57

Um, we really are so different in that way, and it's it's been fun to navigate with you.

SPEAKER_00 26:02

Yeah, different in our taste.

SPEAKER_02 26:05

I don't know. No, that's the thing. I don't think we're different in our taste. I think I think it's something I would choose not to spend money on. Oh, oh yeah. But I look around our place and I think, wow, I really love your taste.

SPEAKER_01 26:17

Yeah, oh, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 26:19

And you like fun, like you don't you like things to look funky.

SPEAKER_00 26:22

Yeah, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:23

Like if you walk into our place, you probably think I like weird, art and weird. It's like an adult version.

SPEAKER_01 26:32

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally.

SPEAKER_02 26:33

But I don't think I don't think our apartment's norm core.

SPEAKER_00 26:37

No, I don't either. I think it's so great.

SPEAKER_02 26:40

It's so great. And good.

SPEAKER_00 26:42

And good. Yeah. Although I'm biased, of course.

SPEAKER_02 26:45

But um write it right in if you hate our place.

SPEAKER_00 26:48

Totally. Um adulting is affected, you're alluding to this, but it is affected by like your comfortability with like spending money. Sure. Or even like, well, I guess financial habits are like a form of adulting in themselves.

SPEAKER_02 27:03

Sure, because I feel like there are so many different things you could spend money on.

SPEAKER_00 27:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:07

Like, is it adulting to go to three concerts every week?

Money Fears And Feeling Inadequate

SPEAKER_00 27:12

Well, this is where we get into some of my like struggles with adulting. I think the core adulting struggle of mine is like wisdom with money. When I think about adulting in myself, like I kind of feel a lot of times like a baby princess a little bit. Like or like I feel like a baby sometimes, you know, like I don't know what I'm doing, and I'm just kind of pretending. And sometimes I'm comfortable with that. Like I think everyone's kind of pretending a little bit, you know, to like be some norm core adult. You know, we're all unique individuals, and and I don't think anyone's born totally comfortable doing things like your own taxes or I was born comfortable doing my own taxes. It came out that way. But you know, like I think when I hear about people, like there's certain adulting things that'll hear about someone else doing, and I can feel kind of inadequate and like baby princess. Like when people talk about shopping for a home, sometimes I'm like, whoa, that feels intense, you know. That feels like far from me, or if I were like with a realtor looking at homes, I might feel kind of out of place. Sure. And I I do think there's that's probably a common feeling for people.

SPEAKER_02 28:38

Yeah, I'm sure it comes up with everyone in some capacity in some category.

SPEAKER_01 28:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:46

I'm sure everyone has aspects of their life where they could compare themselves to other people and drives themselves drives themselves crazy. Yeah, totally. Maybe some people I I know I well, yeah, we both do that, but in different categories.

SPEAKER_01 29:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:01

I don't do it so much with um like a home someone's living in.

SPEAKER_01 29:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:06

Or home, or like if someone has a baby.

SPEAKER_01 29:10

Right.

SPEAKER_02 29:10

Are we gonna have to cut this?

SPEAKER_00 29:15

You're making me laugh. Sorry.

SPEAKER_02 29:16

No, okay.

SPEAKER_00 29:18

Why would we have to cut?

SPEAKER_02 29:19

I don't know. I just don't want to get too like deep into the thing. Like, no, no, you can't. It's like it's like I'm gonna really quickly, just to like be salacious, push all your like most fragile buttons. Um but yeah, we don't have to necessarily expand upon that. But for me, a lot of the time, it's um well, I mean, what is it for me? What do you think I do the most comparison with?

SPEAKER_00 29:42

Well, it's like I almost am wondering it's being like empathetic and giving. Well, it's like it's it's interesting to look at like where do you see someone adulting and maybe feel like, can I do that? Like, am I not that we have to take it in this place, but like I know for me, like a struggle. We talk about like struggles and how to navigate them on this podcast. Like adulting, like what's the struggle you find there and and where's like the the wise mind guiding you instead? I think I'm actually so much more capable of adulting than I like believe I am. I think I have like shadows around shadow parts around like I can never really be a full-blown adult with like a home and a child and a car and uh school tuition and you know, whatever. Like I I don't actually believe this in my wise mind, but I think these shadow like beliefs can pop up. You know, like I'm not worthy of that, I'm not together enough for that, I'm not like strong or like, or it's for me, it's not even strong. It's like there's this weird shadow that comes up where it's like I'm not real in the way other people are.

SPEAKER_02 31:08

That's an interesting way to put it. Yeah. Because you're always real, right?

SPEAKER_00 31:12

Literally.

SPEAKER_02 31:13

And you're gonna have moments of feeling weak, and you're gonna have moments of feeling like, yeah, my career's cruising, and I'm spending money on this furniture, and I feel good about it. We're looking at houses, and oh, but they're so expensive, and I just lost five clients, and oh, the next day, oh, I just got seven clients, and we found this cheap place that's like the place of our dreams, and then like, you know, I could go on, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:40

Well, yeah, it's like none of that makes you not real.

SPEAKER_02 31:44

That actually makes you more real.

SPEAKER_00 31:46

Well, and I think some of the work for me has been like going to the part of me that feels not real and like digging in, exploring like where might this come from? What does like this part of me need to like relax and and not take over, you know, the part that makes me feel not real. And you know, sometimes I think what I need is like a combo of things. One thing that helps me is like when other people in my life are adulting and they're vulnerable about it and they're not like superior about it, like which means that what's put on me is like finding and connecting with and talking about adulting stuff with people that don't make me feel inferior. Sure, yeah. Yeah, like I'll say actually, I I talked to Kathleen today, my friend Kathleen shout out, she's gonna be on the podcast on Tuesday, or we're gonna record on Tuesday. But she just bought a house in um Charlotte, North Carolina and very adult, very adult, and really she was so open and you know, like explained like her fears with it and like things going on with it and the process and and really like dumbed it down for me and made me feel very like oh okay. I I wasn't triggered, I wasn't, I didn't believe like, oh, I could never have this. It was a very like safe conversation about it, which was so helpful. I could feel I felt so kind of expanded by that. Yeah. And then like doing little versions of adulting, you know, like little exposures basically to things, or researching, like, you know, buying homes for dummies or doing your taxes for dummies, you know, whatever it is, a Reddit thread, yeah, you know, of like who else has struggled with this, and feeling not alone with it, you know, and and I think realizing like no one's real or more real. Yeah, I'm saying things that are like conclusions, they're not actually the intervention, but I think it is like a part of if a part of me is feeling not real, it's like a matter of me one way or another soothing that part. Yeah. And sometimes I do it in my own EMDR therapy, my own talk therapy. I meditate on that, I do reparenting exercises, I do, you know, like kind of trying to like soothe and comfort a part of me that feels not real. Yeah. It often involves like embracing that part of me and realizing like I don't think any of us are real. We're just like flawed human beings. We're all in the matrix. You know, there isn't this like, oh, here's a real human. Right. You know, we're all a mess. Yeah. And kind of like porous. And the people I think, I think sometimes the people that truly are confident with adulting are probably not thinking a lot about it. They're just kind of doing. They're like light and easy with things. And it's like, and maybe even like curious, right? Like if I want this, I'm gonna take the steps to do it. Yeah. Like true confidence in it often is that like openness and curiosity rather than like, what does this say about me? You know, it's like it's like viewpoint outward instead of viewpoint inward. What kind of house do I want? And how does one buy a house?

SPEAKER_02 35:18

Totally. I'm gonna look at the houses. Yeah, I'm gonna listen to the houses. Yeah, talk to them. I'm gonna experience the realtor.

SPEAKER_00 35:26

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:28

They're real.

SPEAKER_00 35:29

Their smell, their smell, their taste. Yeah, if you kiss them. If you kiss the thumb. Don't do that. Don't kiss your realtor. Don't do that, yeah. Unless you're both single and it's like after you've done all your business dealings.

SPEAKER_02 35:45

And even then, you know, do you really like this guy?

SPEAKER_00 35:48

You might have to buy another house later. Yeah, you'd want to money the water.

SPEAKER_02 35:53

You may have to buy a lot of houses.

unknown 35:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:55

And until you've bought them all, you might not be real.

SPEAKER_03 36:00

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 36:01

But yeah, like what is that? Does that bring up anything for you?

SPEAKER_02 36:04

Which part?

SPEAKER_00 36:05

Getting triggered by someone else's like practice of adulting or seeing someone else be an adult. Sorry, I like spat into the mic. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:15

Well, is it okay to say what I'm about to say? I don't know. Sometimes I think the thing that triggers me the most is your fear that you're not adulting.

SPEAKER_00 36:26

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_02 36:27

And then I almost feel like because I feel like I held it more lightly as a single person.

SPEAKER_03 36:32

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 36:33

And I feel like so I'm the problem. Well, no. It's so complicated. Because I do think there's like a part of me deep down that kind of was so satisfied as a single person and felt like there was so much. It's like not. That's like not the full statement. Okay. It's just because it's pain. Um I was so happy before. Well, I think I I think I I think I had an extended stretch where I felt that I was focusing on a lot of adult things, but maybe from an external perspective, that I maybe didn't seem like an appealing candidate to marry because I didn't make enough, or because I don't know. I like because I'm like Josh Bear from Michigan, and I'm like this little kid that kind of dresses normally. And I felt that in LA especially.

SPEAKER_01 37:35

Yeah. Yeah. Tell us about that in LA.

SPEAKER_02 37:38

I just think I was like very not focused on my image, and I was very focused on my career.

SPEAKER_01 37:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:47

Which is a form of adulting, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 37:50

Sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:51

But I kind of had this deep-seated belief when you say, Am I the problem? Like, I'm digging deep. Like, I really think I had this belief that I'm going to turn so many people off.

SPEAKER_00 38:03

Why? What or what would turn them off?

SPEAKER_02 38:07

Like that you go into my place and I'm clearly not adulting.

SPEAKER_00 38:11

Oh, okay. Like I'm a baby boy.

SPEAKER_02 38:13

I don't even know if I felt like a baby boy. I think I felt like a space alien.

SPEAKER_00 38:18

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 38:20

Um, so it's almost other. I felt like an adult, an adult alien.

SPEAKER_00 38:24

Yeah, it's not like not enough. It's like just other.

SPEAKER_02 38:28

Who has some non-conformist trappings?

SPEAKER_00 38:32

Sure, yeah. Like your lifestyle.

SPEAKER_02 38:35

That someone could look at and be like, I just want a normal guy who's gonna provide for me. And it's almost like in my heart, it's like, well, I know I have the work ethic.

SPEAKER_00 38:44

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:44

And I know I'm loving. Like, I know there are so many ways in which I am a strong romantic partner, even now, but it's almost like I wasn't ready for it.

SPEAKER_01 38:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 38:55

Also, LA is a weird place, and I wanted to move to Chicago.

SPEAKER_01 38:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:59

And somewhere along the line during COVID, I evolved. But yeah, I think we're both figuring it out.

SPEAKER_01 39:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:07

Like you want to decorate our apartment with nice stuff.

SPEAKER_01 39:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:12

And that was never something I did.

SPEAKER_01 39:14

Right.

SPEAKER_02 39:15

So it's never something I had to budget for. And I think when we moved in together, I was overwhelmed by the amount. You'd be like, let's get a new couch. And then like a year later, like, let's replace the couch.

unknown 39:26

Right.

SPEAKER_02 39:26

And I was like, oh wow, like we're never going to be able to save was my fear. Yeah. And but then you'd be worried about saving. And obviously a part of that is just having work. Like, I also had some stretches where work was harder for me than it had been before we met.

SPEAKER_01 39:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:42

Um, just due to uh uncertainty.

SPEAKER_00 39:46

Yeah, the economy.

SPEAKER_02 39:47

Economy. Right.

SPEAKER_00 39:49

The market.

SPEAKER_02 39:49

The market. The market is it's a thunderous market out there. Yeah. I think right now we're both feeling a lot more on the same page. Yeah. It's in it's interesting talking about this because I feel like it's not that long ago that this was such a frequent conflict between us.

SPEAKER_01 40:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:08

And lately it's almost like doesn't really it comes up, but I feel like it's something we're on the same page about.

SPEAKER_00 40:15

Yeah, I think we sort of needed the conflict to like discover like where each of us needed to let go a little bit or move more toward the other person a little bit. Or guide you or me elsewhere, I think.

SPEAKER_02 40:29

Like getting a joint credit card.

SPEAKER_00 40:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:32

That was pretty adult.

SPEAKER_00 40:33

Because you were hesitant about that, and I've loved every minute of it.

SPEAKER_02 40:36

I think I worried it would suck all the romance out of our relationship.

SPEAKER_00 40:40

Yeah. But you didn't realize how much money I was sucking out of your pocket. I did. Well, it's what's so funny is like the joke is on me because it's my pleasure. The joke is on me because I was really like, I think we'll feel so married and so close and and so like settled, really like having the ability to like split everything and and really our money, as our friend says, like right pocket, left pocket, you know, like our money, each of our own money is the others. Like we share everything, and that feels really good. It feels really intimate, and I love it. As a concept, I love it. But what's so funny is when we did it and the first like bill came, I was like, holy fuck, like he was spending so much money on me, and now we're splitting these things that he was paying for himself. And I'm like, whoa, this is definitely gonna cost me this decision. I still stand behind. Okay, should we switch back? No, I 100% it's I know it's wise-minded. Yeah. The structure of it, and honestly, the discipline it requires of me with my own spending and hit managing of like my income is such a good exercise, but it's funny because it's like I am realizing like while you were carrying a huge financial load in our relationship. I didn't fully appreciate that.

SPEAKER_02 42:07

Well, that's sweet. I don't even know that you've ever really said this like this.

SPEAKER_00 42:11

Oh, I mean, really, I that that was happening. And yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:16

Sometimes you'll be the most articulate on the pod.

unknown 42:18

Totally, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:19

Because you you've like, there's been murmurs of that.

SPEAKER_00 42:22

Yeah, I've said a version of it, but I probably said it in like a jokier way.

SPEAKER_02 42:26

Maybe I can hear you better on the pod.

SPEAKER_00 42:28

Yeah, yeah, that might be.

SPEAKER_02 42:29

I have more self-worth on the pod. Perhaps. Because in real life, if you said something like that, I'd probably think, oh, Kelly's just being nice. And um, I wasn't really.

SPEAKER_00 42:36

No, I I really think I know that you were probably.

SPEAKER_02 42:39

I know that I was too. And I feel like we I'm happy to do that still.

SPEAKER_00 42:46

Well, but it feels to me uh the kind of marriage I want is where we both really feel like we contribute and support each other. Well, it's changed the stage. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:58

And yeah, I think we're saving a lot more.

SPEAKER_00 43:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:02

I'm even spending less lately.

SPEAKER_00 43:04

But you know, isn't that interesting? I think your adulting there is like letting yourself spend on things like home decor and making a beautiful, you know, hospitable home. And for me, adulting is not overspending. It's like having the foresight to save distress tolerance, to save for bigger purchases, to save for the future, to which I was doing, but like I I definitely could stand to do it at a more sizable percentage.

SPEAKER_02 43:38

I think our pace has slowed on in home purchases.

SPEAKER_00 43:41

Yeah. Well, and that that took uh some trust in you that like when we get a new couch doesn't mean like next week we get a new this and then a new that, and then a you know, there'll be some big purchases and then there'll be times where I think my gut is it's like I want to trust you, but then it's like if I say yes to everything and

SPEAKER_02 44:00

We end up in a situation where we don't have the money saved. It's like, what do we do? Right. You know, it's like I want a house, but I feel like sometimes I would make peace with it by like, well, maybe we'll never get a house.

SPEAKER_00 44:13

Well, and I don't even know, like, I'm at a place where I'm like, I want a third bedroom. And like, do I need that to be in a house? Like, not necessarily.

SPEAKER_02 44:23

I love dreaming.

SPEAKER_00 44:25

And it's like trusting, like, we have to learn, you and I, to trust our careers and our skills. You know, like you said, like your drive and focus and talent are there. So, like, even in a tough market, like you're always gonna come through.

SPEAKER_02 44:43

I believe that deep down. Yeah. And I think where I get hung up is like, can we make X happen in X amount of months?

SPEAKER_00 44:51

Well, the time piece is where you really have to let go. I have to let go.

SPEAKER_02 44:56

Yeah. That goes beyond adulting. I think that is wisdom. And from now on, when you ask that, I'm just gonna say yes.

SPEAKER_00 45:02

Yes to what?

SPEAKER_02 45:04

Yes, I can we can do that.

SPEAKER_00 45:05

Do what?

SPEAKER_02 45:06

Like if you're like, do you think we could have a house by the time we're 29? I'm just gonna say yes.

SPEAKER_00 45:12

We're about 37, essentially. 39. Oh I do like to dream, and then I don't, I don't personally get upset if I don't reach the goal, weirdly. I'm almost to a fault, you know. Like I'm pretty forgiving with like the intentions, you know. But yeah, I think one day it would be nice to have a home. Like a house. I mean, we have a home. Yeah. But a house, I think it seems cool to like design it how you want. And there's a lot of nice things about homeownership. But then there's also a lot of like in today's world, a lot of like burdens with it, and it's different than like our parents buying a home at our age for sure. So I I want to be, and I think we are doing a good job of this, like be open, you know, have ideas, have intentions, but not be so rigidly fixed to them. Like let your life guide you a bit too. Yeah. Yeah, like have some structure and some flexibility.

SPEAKER_02 46:16

Because that was probably a bit of a manic pixie dream boy before.

SPEAKER_01 46:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:20

Like I remember we had that conversation about planning, and you were like, you never plan. Like, no, I kind of wake up in the morning and I do whatever I feel, and I trust my intuition, and things always work out for me.

SPEAKER_00 46:30

Yeah, but I think I like planning. I think I like feeling I think I like adulting, like you were saying. I do think it is exhilarating and like empowering.

SPEAKER_02 46:40

But I think sometimes when it's vague, it's like let's plan. I'll be like, I don't know how to do that. But then if you're like make this spreadsheet, I'm like, okay, I can do that.

SPEAKER_00 46:46

Yeah, totally. Have I ever said make this spreadsheet? No, I'm like allergic to a spreadsheet. My planning is like sitting down and talking.

SPEAKER_02 46:57

When you used to say let's plan, I feel like you wanted me to come up with a spreadsheet.

SPEAKER_00 47:01

No.

SPEAKER_02 47:02

Or like a PowerPoint presentation showing how I'm gonna provide for you.

Therapy Tools For Adulting Anxiety

SPEAKER_00 47:05

No, I don't want that at all. But and when I think about like adulting and like in the clinical setting when people struggle with this, it's always interesting to explore the struggle. I mean, I say this a lot on this podcast, but like I and I would recommend that to any listeners, like come to know the struggle itself. Like, what does adulting doing some of these tasks, right? Going and like getting your real ID, if you're gonna go to the DMV and do that. And you notice, like, I feel really anxious about that. Like, really pay attention to that. And if you're in therapy, it's a great place to like double click and really wonder. Like, I wonder what it brings up, what I'm afraid is gonna happen. You know, if I just waltz in there and do that, am I fearful that something will happen to me? I'll feel something I can't handle. I'll, you know, they're gonna arrest me because I have the wrong documents. Like, what's there?

SPEAKER_02 48:07

Right.

SPEAKER_00 48:08

And and like I often do in my work is like float that back to like maybe where have you felt insecure in the same way before? Or what kind of coping skills can you use for that? Can you both feel afraid and cope with it? You know, can you ring a friend who's equally afraid and you two emotionally support each other as you go?

SPEAKER_02 48:30

Find a scared friend.

SPEAKER_00 48:32

Find a really scared friend who loves DMV. Who loves the DMV? But yeah, it's like there's a lot of ways to move through that. And it can be an interesting like reflection. I think I do this, and a lot of people do this, like conflate being an adult with like financial wealth.

SPEAKER_02 48:56

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:57

You know, like, oh, being wealthy means you're more together, you're more adult, you're better.

SPEAKER_02 49:02

But you could be a millionaire and be a baby princess.

SPEAKER_00 49:05

Totally, totally. And you know, like I think it's a good thought. I mean, I believe in my heart that they are separate, and I know that I can get in a place, a part of me can conflate them, but really being an adult is like doing things like security-related tasks with I don't even want to say confidence, it's like with openness and honesty. Jumping off the cliff a bit and doing these things that are a step forward, you know, from where you are. A new, a new space.

SPEAKER_02 49:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:42

You know.

SPEAKER_02 49:43

Yeah. In the in the metaphysical sense, I feel like doing something uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_00 49:48

Like being in your like most vital self, your wise mind. It's often like a beginner's mind, right? It is like being open and curious and not knowing everything. Kind of being confident in your not knowing.

SPEAKER_02 50:03

Yeah, I guess it's a dialectic because I feel like on the one hand, we're talking about the behaviors that go along with adulting.

SPEAKER_01 50:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:10

And now we're starting to talk about the mindsets that go along with adulting.

SPEAKER_00 50:13

Yeah. Which maybe turns it from the like quote unquote adulting to like this like growth and like actualization of self.

SPEAKER_02 50:22

Yeah. Yeah. And you can even do that as a kid. Yeah. Totally. Like, oh, I'm gonna switch schools because my parents made me. Yeah. And it's my first day of sixth grade, and I don't know anyone, and I'm gonna like go talk to a friend. Yeah. I don't think at the time I was like, oh, I'm adulting.

SPEAKER_00 50:41

Right, right. But I was like, I'm like, But you might have said, like, I'm gonna be a big kid, or like, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:48

And then I went home and cried. And then I made a bunch of new friends.

SPEAKER_01 50:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:54

All in the same day.

SPEAKER_01 50:56

Really?

SPEAKER_02 50:56

No, it was like over the course of a year.

SPEAKER_01 50:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:59

But it's these, what is it? These growth edges.

SPEAKER_01 51:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:02

That are very adult.

SPEAKER_01 51:04

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 51:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:06

Very explicit.

SPEAKER_00 51:07

Yeah, like a lot of growth edges are a lot, like you get pushed out of the nest a lot in life. It can be really scary, but that's often how you do like grow and transcend. Push out of the nest, learn to fly. So that I mean, that's another kind of like tip. Like, if you're not getting pushed out of the nest, maybe push yourself out. You know. Push your mom out. Well, because like even in my example with the with the credit card, I it is costing me more money every month to do it. And I know in my heart it is the best decision.

SPEAKER_02 51:40

I feel so heartbroken because it's costing me less money every month. Well, that's a direct trade-off. Totally. So like me feeling relief and you feeling stress.

SPEAKER_00 51:48

No, I I don't feel stress about it. I feel like, you know what? This is a really important challenge for me. And I think it's a better structure for our family. You know, if you're pretending to be okay with it. I'm not.

SPEAKER_02 52:01

You're LARPing.

SPEAKER_00 52:03

I'm LARPing.

SPEAKER_02 52:04

You're, should I say adulting at it?

SPEAKER_00 52:07

Yeah, I'm adulting at being okay with this. Okay.

unknown 52:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:11

We'll move on.

How Wise Is Budgeting

SPEAKER_00 52:12

Yeah. I think that that's our little discussion on that. But I'm curious, you know, people's thoughts or experiences with adulting, you know. Or I mean, and if you hate that term, I hear you. It's not like I like it. Yeah. It's like very like memeable or whatever. But you know, it it's come up in a lot of different spaces lately. So I think, yeah, it's a I think it's an interesting one. And yeah, we wanted to talk about it. But we'll move on to our how wise is it? And this is kind of related to adulting. How wise is it to use a budget. I'm stomped. Do you use a budget? No. No. And I it's like I would sit here and like lie like a rug and be like, I use a budget. I make a budget. Do I use it?

unknown 53:07

No.

SPEAKER_02 53:08

I think I don't make one, but I use one. I budget, but I never make it.

SPEAKER_00 53:15

Yeah, you are a natural budgeter.

SPEAKER_02 53:18

Well, again, a part of the way I did that was by doing zero adulting. Or by doing zero interior decor. And I will I will say things, I will say things that are important to you for me to spend on that I didn't used to spend on before. Equals a child. No. Equals I'm gonna say two things. Clothing, interior decorating.

SPEAKER_01 53:49

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:50

Obviously, both are things that I well, I don't know. Clothing. I got a lot of clothes thrown at me.

SPEAKER_01 53:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:58

And I would just wear those clothes. Totally.

SPEAKER_00 54:01

Um we couldn't be more different in this.

SPEAKER_02 54:04

And I wouldn't see an article of clothing and be like, I need that. Unless unless it was a band shirt.

SPEAKER_00 54:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:11

But I wouldn't go and buy myself shorts. I would buy myself running shoes if mine were getting rotten.

SPEAKER_00 54:17

Because I need like Yeah, you wear your clothes until they are rotten. Somewhat. It's a good thing. I think it's admirable in so many ways.

SPEAKER_02 54:25

I I said I got all my furniture and I moved to LA from the goodwill and didn't look back. And I had drawers that were like kind of falling apart. I think I eventually got new drawers from IKEA that I built wrong, and my friend Wes had to come and disassemble it and like rebuild it.

SPEAKER_00 54:41

Oh that's nice.

SPEAKER_02 54:42

Um, that was adulting.

SPEAKER_00 54:44

Yeah, woodworking is adulting.

SPEAKER_02 54:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:47

So you think it's wise for you not to use a budget because you naturally budget.

SPEAKER_02 54:52

But it's also wise for me if you say, let's budget, just to say sure.

SPEAKER_01 54:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:58

And then be silent until you say a next comment. And to or or just wait for you to stop. Wait for you to ask me to build a spreadsheet.

SPEAKER_00 55:07

I can't stop.

SPEAKER_02 55:08

But then I'm like, what's going in this spreadsheet?

SPEAKER_00 55:11

Ooh, okay. This is hurting.

SPEAKER_02 55:13

Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 55:14

It's okay.

SPEAKER_02 55:15

Um, but I've gotten more into Google AI, so I think now I would probably just like type into Google AI, and I'm we're getting a good amount of hate online for our uh Google AI generated imagery.

SPEAKER_00 55:27

Um I don't care.

SPEAKER_02 55:30

But also a lot of love. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 55:32

I think it's like fine if AI is like animating stuff. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 55:36

To like make a cartoon version of you.

SPEAKER_00 55:38

Whatever. I guess I don't know enough about it. I'm I'm kind of anti-AI in some ways, but I'm also like some of it's neutral.

SPEAKER_02 55:44

This is our conversation on New Year's Eve, remember?

SPEAKER_00 55:47

Some of it doesn't really. It's like you can't fight City Hall.

SPEAKER_02 55:50

It's just too much fun to make these cartoon versions of you.

SPEAKER_00 55:53

Yeah. My beautiful cartoon-wise. I am loving those. They're funny.

SPEAKER_02 55:58

Okay. But okay, so you I would plug into AI. How do I budget?

SPEAKER_00 56:04

Now that to me seems a little silly because it's like all the inputting you'd have to do to get the budget would just be the budget before AI even intervened.

SPEAKER_02 56:14

Part of the issue with me budgeting is my income changes so frequently.

SPEAKER_01 56:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:23

The inconsistency with the amount of money that comes in monthly. I think I kind of just need to use my spidey sense.

SPEAKER_00 56:32

And you are naturally very good at that. So I think for you it is wise to just intuit more. And you and you kind of have the mantra of like always be saving. Ish. Ish.

SPEAKER_02 56:46

But like always not to a toxic degree at all. But it's almost like always be saving so you can always be spending, which is a tricky dialectic.

SPEAKER_00 56:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:55

Always be sp saving so that you can always spend on the things that are important to you.

SPEAKER_00 56:59

Yeah, I think you're value aligned in your spending, and I think that's great.

SPEAKER_02 57:02

And that's gonna change over time.

SPEAKER_00 57:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:04

There was a point at which it was only be spending on three concerts a week.

SPEAKER_01 57:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:08

And alcohol.

SPEAKER_01 57:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:11

And like really don't spend much on anything else. And I think even now it's like, oh, here are these like six bands I like. And I'm like, just cool it.

SPEAKER_01 57:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:19

Like, wait to be like wait to be like, oh god, we need to go see this show.

SPEAKER_01 57:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:24

We've got concerts coming up. We're going to see Haley Williams. We're going to see Father John Misty. I'm going to see Pavement. I think there were times in my life where I'd be like, I've got like 20 shows in the next few months. Yeah. And now you're a dad of four kids. Now I'm a dad of four kids and I don't have time. Yeah. I also play in a band. Pavement.

SPEAKER_00 57:45

Right.

SPEAKER_02 57:45

Um.

SPEAKER_00 57:46

Okay. I like that. I think for me, I make a budget. And you know, you bring up a good point because my income is somewhat variable too. I'm a fee for service. Less than mine, but practice I have. More than some. Yeah. But I I often will base it on the previous year's tax return. Because typically my income goes up. No, actually, last year that wasn't the case, but by a marginal amount. So most of the time it does go up. So I kind of base it on that. And I will write down all my expenses. I'll even go through like all my statements and make sure I have all the expenses. And sometimes when I do that, I realize I'm like paying for Planet Fitness and not going and whatever. Okay. So smoothie fitness or whatever. Planet Smoothie. Planet Smoothie. Smoothie Fitness. Planet Smoothie.

SPEAKER_02 58:35

Um, you get your budget app from Planet Budget.

SPEAKER_00 58:38

Yeah. Um, so I will write down, like kind of like exhaustively write down all my expenses and write down like what's left over. And then I try to, you know, save 20% and what's left over is like for spending, for fun spending, you know, like clothing, I love fun spending decor, whatever. Fun like on my nails. Fun.com.

SPEAKER_02 59:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:05

On your nails.

SPEAKER_02 59:07

For my website, josh.bear.bear films.

unknown 59:13

Stop.

SPEAKER_00 59:14

You keep making me that. Um, but I'll make this budget, this like fancy ass budget. And then it's like I close the little notebook, I put it on a shelf, and I don't fucking look at it at all.

SPEAKER_02 59:26

Like how you used to throw your little tiny pages of homework out the window.

SPEAKER_00 59:31

I do that. I do that so much. I will write a note and I will never ever again share FaceTime with it. Oh, I'll do that. Okay. But I do think I'll have the sense of like, what really can I put on this credit card that's reasonable in this month? And I'm not perfect at following it, but I do think it helps. I think the writing of it, it's sort of in my mind. So I don't need to like be checking and cross-referencing and like I'm just never gonna be that person. It's more like I've got the big idea at the beginning. I write it down, I get the sense, what's reasonable for me to spend. And then I'm like, okay, moving on. Not looking at that budget for a really long time.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:13

Sure. Um so would it be a takeaway, like maybe spend slightly less on clothes? Or am I oversimplifying it?

unknown 1:00:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:24

Like you're not like adding up every purchase as you go. You're not like tallying.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:31

But I have a credit card statement that I'm looking at in the month.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:35

And you look at it every day, each day?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:37

Uh I look at it several times a week.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:39

So are you hurting so much?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:40

I am hurting. I laughing really.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:42

Fuck, I'm really sorry.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:43

It's okay. It's okay. It does really hurt. I don't even think you're trying to be funny, but you are I am.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:48

You're making me laugh. Well, sometimes I'm not.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:51

Yeah, like I will look at it several times a week to have a sense of like where am I at in this in the month and I do keep it. Yeah. So what it's like So I guess we are budgeting a little.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:02

Yeah, I guess I'm budgeting. I'll I'll look at what I spend and yeah, I'll notice I have a subscription that I'm no longer using, or I'll notice that my account got hacked and be like, well, that's not budgeting. That's adulting. Well, that's not good. And end of episode. Thank you, blanket forts for the music.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:25

Oh dear. I'm gonna have to check this wound.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:28

Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:29

Um, it's okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:30

Did it open back up? No, no, I think it's okay. I'm really sorry. I've been an unsurprising, I've been an abusive husband.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:38

Yeah, I think we're doing some version of budgeting, but we're definitely not gonna be the person who's like checking everything and like staring at the spreadsheet and blah, blah, blah. That's just not wise for us. I think if it causes you suffering or you really struggle to follow it, try a new version. Remember when I read that money book and like I couldn't sleep at night? Right. Josh and I read Rum Eat Safety's I Will Teach You to Be Rich. Um, and I felt deeply empowered by it. And Josh had a spiral.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:09

And then like took two or three nuggets from it that actually were useful.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:13

Yeah, which I think really any of these books.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:15

It was canceling my it was going through all my subscriptions and canceling some of them.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:19

And I have read like Dave Ramsay books and stuff. I do feel very empowered by these books on like how to organize your finances. Dave Ramsey has a bit of a different take. He's a little harsh, but I kind of liked his brand of harsh, where he would really be like, the person in the mirror is the issue.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:34

I think I could handle them now. Yeah. I was reading them the month before I proposed to you.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:39

Yeah, you made a big purchase.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:41

I was just worried you were making a huge mistake by marrying me.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:45

Oh, it was fear. And how do you feel about that now? Not scared. Yeah, I do feel like I made a huge mistake by marrying you.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:54

Well, I think I was saying that like three days ago. I actually wasn't even saying that three days ago. No, of course I don't think that.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:01

Yeah, of course. I think you're you were learning in real time that like we're doing all this together. And it's not like you're some man who has to like deliver me some adult life on a platter. Like we build that together.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:17

But maybe I can work on my anxiety.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:22

So then I don't need to trigger you every two seconds, every day.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:26

Totally. I think that's great.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:28

It'll be every three seconds every day.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:30

Yeah. Every fourth second.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:33

Every fourth fourth wing. Every time you read fourth wing, which is once a day.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:42

Definitely.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:43

Oh man. Okay. Well, maybe that's an episode. That's our time.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:48

That's our time. We're out of time.

Listener Write-In And Plugs

SPEAKER_00 1:03:49

Yeah. Well, tell us your thoughts on budgeting, if it's wise, adulting, your experiences there. We're so curious. Write in. And yeah, if you want to reach me, you can find me at kkpsychotherapy.com. I um have an inquiry page there where if you want to work with me, you can reach out. If you have ideas for the pod, if you have your own pod and you want to have me on, if you want to be on our pod, anything, really anything, I'd love to hear from you. And how about you, Doc?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:21

And nothing at all. I'm gonna go ahead and plug Mitski because I feel like I've been name-dropping all these other albums, and I didn't mention hers because she's like in the Spotify top 500. Um, I've just been so obsessed with her recently.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:35

Yeah, her new album is so, so, so good.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:37

And all her albums.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:39

She's just a national treasure.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:41

Wonderful. She's such a great list.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:43

Mitsuki. Just check her out. I'm not gonna like try to describe it.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:48

Um love the new album.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:50

Love it.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:51

And you can reach me at joshbayerfilms.com. That's Bayer as in the aspirin, B-A-Y-E-R. And there is a contact form there where you can contact me and you can ask me questions. Will you edit my movie? Will you edit my podcast? Will you film my movie? Will you film my podcast? And also if you want to be on the podcast, kind of everything that Kelly said, but that's my website.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:18

And um, I would be a guest on your podcast, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:22

Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:23

I got chords.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:25

Yeah. Yeah, you might we might have to duke it out who gets to be the guest, Josh and I.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:29

Yeah, but usually not me.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:30

We'll figure it out. Well, not necessarily depends on what it is.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:33

Because you're a woman, hear me roar.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:36

Okay, thanks everyone.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:38

Thank you for joining.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:39

And we miss John, but we'll see him next time. Or in two times, actually.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:43

In two times. We really miss John.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:45

Yeah, we have two guests next week. That'll be so great.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:48

Neither of which are John.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:49

Neither of which are John.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:51

But we love ya.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:52

We love ya. All right. Take care.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:55

Take care. Thanks again, blanket four.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:56

Thanks again, blanket fore.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:59

It's bye.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:00

The WiseMind Happy Hour Podcast is for entertainment purposes only, not to be treated as medical advice. If you are struggling with your mental health, please seek medical attention or counseling.