The Wise Mind Happy Hour
Two therapists musing about the idea of an inner wise mind and how to connect with this psychic space in different contexts.
The Wise Mind Happy Hour
the wisdom of ADULTING
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
#adulting...WHAT IS IT?
- music by blanket forts -
Welcome And Weird Schedule
SPEAKER_00Welcome to the Wise Mind Happy Hour. I'm Kelly.
SPEAKER_02I'm Josh.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, welcome. It's we have Josh here tonight this evening. Instead of John, um, we've had like a weird schedule. So sorry, I feel like my throat is dry.
SPEAKER_02Oh, that's okay.
SPEAKER_00We have a weird schedule, so our podcast recording schedule has been off a little bit.
SPEAKER_02It's been awful.
SPEAKER_00It's been awful. It's been um just unusual.
SPEAKER_02Mm-hmm. Weird.
SPEAKER_00Weird, you might say. Um, so yeah, so tonight Josh and I are doing an episode and we're so excited about it.
SPEAKER_02How do you feel? We're gonna talk about lettuce and um is it wise?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. How eyes is it? Lettuce.
SPEAKER_02Lettuce, let us pray.
SPEAKER_00Um, yeah, so let's check in a little bit. Well, wait, Josh and I talked about checking in actually ahead of recording. Because we have had an interesting week. Checking in. And I think I'll speak for myself that I am not totally ready to like fully process this on the pod. Maybe I never will, and maybe that's like completely unnecessary.
Appendectomy Recovery And Gratitude
SPEAKER_00But a spoiler, I had my appendix out last week, right after my birthday. Happy birthday. Happy birthday to me. Um, should we sing? Yeah, yeah. Or we could like sing a funeral song to my appendix.
SPEAKER_02Happy sad appendix. Outside.
SPEAKER_00But yeah, so it was, you know, anyone who's had their appendix out, which is Josh informed me, is like about 10% of people, um, which is pretty high. That is high. You know, it is surgery, it's like minor surgery, but I'd never had surgery, and yeah, it was like pretty intense and like jarring, and it all happened kind of fast once they saw on my CT scan that I had appendicitis. So pretty overwhelming. I'm still recovering and yeah, still pretty sore and like still just kind of emotionally rattled, I would say, from it and trying to kind of like come back to real life and fragile. A little fragile. Like I'm not fragile as a person, but I think it's like rattling. I don't know.
SPEAKER_02It's white fragility.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. It's my it's my white fragility. Um, no, it's just really yeah, I feel a little bit not myself. But I I also feel like myself. It's it's like a confusing thing. And I may I may talk about it on the pod, but not today. Not today, I don't think.
SPEAKER_02Um maybe tomorrow.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I will say what was so nice was like having you there with me as my husband, like right by my side. The entire experience was so wonderful.
SPEAKER_02As your husband. As my husband.
SPEAKER_00I was playing the role of husband, but it like that felt different instead of you just being a boyfriend, a partner. Like being my husband or my like long-term committed partner really felt it just felt so comforting in this really special way to have you, especially because your energy was so like you made me laugh a thousand times. Which now hurts. Yeah, now it kind of hurts to laugh. I mean, it does hurt to laugh. Yeah, especially if like I've noticed if someone says something really unexpected and funny. I'll I think I laugh the hardest when someone does that. And I truly have to like hold my stomach. It's so painful.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Um, but if it's expected and funny, then it's not quite as it's maybe just not as funny. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So I'm kind of like able. But every day laughing gets a little bit easier.
SPEAKER_02I'm gonna take that out of context.
SPEAKER_00I sound like I have like as the most severe depression there can be. Yeah. It's really just like a giant open wound. Not a relearning how to laugh. Yeah. I have three incision points from it, three scars, which like I feel like they didn't totally explain. Well, I mean, she I'm sure she did explain it, but I was like really out of it.
SPEAKER_02I feel like the explanation was something along the lines of there's gonna be one scar, but there will be three scars.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. But I will say, like, the medical team and the surgical team and Northwestern were lovely. I I like 10 stars. I they were so comforting and capable and and really great. I shout out to them. I was trying to think of another C word for the alliteration.
SPEAKER_02Comforting, capable, and compassion, kind wait, compassionate, compassionate, yeah.
SPEAKER_00They were great, so shout out to them. Yeah, charisma. Sometimes you it's sometimes you hear not like the best things about certain hospitals, and and I have heard them sometimes about Northwestern or people who've worked there saying it was like a tough environment. But honestly, I really appreciated everyone we encountered. Well, they say people be throwing up. Oh, one of the nurses was like, Have you been around anyone sick? And we were like, Oh, well, I was around my I was like, I was around my niece right after she threw up, and she just goes, Kids be throwing up. And I was like, true bat. Can't argue with that. Like kids really be throwing up, and and then they're fine. Like sometimes they're not, but like there's a lot of like kid throwing up, and then they're like back on the soccer field a second later.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, well, that was kind of you, yeah, until cut two, you're off the soccer field.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, you're yeah, that's I surprise you with that humor. Oh god, I'm sorry, it did hurt a little bit. Um, but yeah, yeah, there was some TMI bits involved in this experience, but yeah.
SPEAKER_02That's too much information if you were born yesterday.
SPEAKER_00If you're a gen Z, maybe you don't use TMI. Oh well, yeah. Yeah. If you're on TikTok, TMI is like the only way to live, is giving too much information about everything. I'm a little more like TMZ. Yeah, yeah. We're of the TMZ generation.
SPEAKER_02Too much Zen.
SPEAKER_00I like that. What does actual TMZ stand for?
SPEAKER_02I'm realizing I don't know. Teenage mutant Zen.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02Apparently, Zen is the only Z word. Yeah. Zebra.
SPEAKER_00It's the only one you can think of. Yeah. Um I think remember Searsha saying, I don't know how to do a Z. Oh yeah. Yeah, because what word was she trying to spell? C's. My mom thought she was trying to spell the word C. S-E-I-Z-E. And my mom's like, is that a kindergarten word? And she's like, yeah. And then my mom spells it that way, and she goes, Z. Oh my god. There's four R. C's S-E-E-S-S-E-A-S-E-I-Z-E. What else?
SPEAKER_02C E A R S E. C S and Desist.
SPEAKER_00Well, C S is different than C's.
SPEAKER_02Not if you're from Michigan.
SPEAKER_00Not if you're in kindergarten. But yeah, Circia didn't know how to do Z, but I think she learned that day, even though my mom was spelling the wrong version of it.
SPEAKER_02And now she'll seize the opportunity. She'll always seize the opportunity.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. She'll remember that word forever and use it correctly the next time we see her. Because that's Circia. She's a genius. Yeah, she is. She's special. All those girls, so special. So special. Um, okay. So let's so that uh, you know, I'm saying I wasn't gonna talk about the appendix appendicitis, and of course now I'm talking about it a little bit. But yeah, that's I mean, I had the surgery, I'm I'm recovering from it now, and I'm doing okay. I'm hanging in there. But yeah, let's check in with you
SXSW Premiere And Mixed Reviews
SPEAKER_00a little bit.
SPEAKER_02Whoa, Josh, what have you been up to? Oh, just south by southwest. Uh okay, moving on. But yeah, my Rod Serling documentary that I edited, premiered in this last week. Um, uh coming out to mixed reviews online. Oh no, I think they're overall pretty positive. Oh, good. Okay. I mean everything has there was one review that said this is a shell. It said, it said Rod Serling, the documentary, is good, but it's kind of a good shell.
SPEAKER_03Hmm.
SPEAKER_02As in, I think What does that mean to you? Yeah, well, they explained it. Um that would be strange if that and they were just like, okay. But uh no, I think I feel like the main critique that I saw was kind of that there wasn't too much surprising in it.
SPEAKER_00Oh, it didn't surprise.
SPEAKER_02And it's like the it feel people were one review was kind of saying it feels like the target audience is fans of the Twilight Zone, which Rod Serling created. But if you're a big fan of the Twilight Zone, you're gonna know everything that's in this.
SPEAKER_03Oh.
SPEAKER_02And if you're not, you're not gonna want to watch it. Basically, people were like, Where's the drama?
SPEAKER_00Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_02But the most positive review described it as a heartbreaking, dreamlike cerebral exploration into Rod Serling's mind that kind of deals with issues of mortality in a way that um made her uh think about her own mortality and get super emotional.
SPEAKER_00Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_02Bye. Love you.
SPEAKER_00But yeah, so you went to South by.
SPEAKER_02So I went to South by and it was really, I mean, well, I abandoned you. Which we must say.
SPEAKER_03You did so.
SPEAKER_02I'm sorry. We're doing the pod, so I know your health does matter to me more than the pod. So should I like turn a corner and become a little less funny?
unknownNo, no.
SPEAKER_00Okay, but yeah, so you you did well, we had a tough decision in front of us with you know, your movie premiering. It's such an honor to be selected, your free film to be selected for South by Southwest. We both were gonna go. You know, your mom and grandparents were meeting you there. You know, there were a lot of like factors to consider. And so I I encouraged you to go. You were ambivalent and you went. And like in reflecting afterwards, we thought, you know, maybe next time you know, like both of us have something to work on there. Like maybe I'll insist that you stay and like let myself be the patient and be as like rattled and not okay as I was. And you know, like for me, when you're not okay like that, you really like need your partner.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, well, I feel like I would have been happy to be here.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And I do th I I know I was saying that I'm gonna die, and this will have been a regret that I went. Um, because I abandoned you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you did say that as a direct quote.
SPEAKER_02Uh but perhaps it's meaningful that I went and it's a learning experience. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, it's a dialectic.
SPEAKER_02I'm now skipping my cousin's Jake Bachelor party to uh be here with you and and support you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, which I really appreciate. Yeah. And and I think both of us did a good job of, you know, like reflecting and thinking, like, if if you go again, like I think it's gonna be really hard and I'm gonna feel really not supported.
SPEAKER_02I feel like with big life decisions, you just need to be a little bit more like you are with like the eggs. Like, can you make me the eggs at 705?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And I'll be like, yeah, sure. Yeah, like baby princess.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Like baby, yeah, a little baby princess.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, sometimes I have trouble being baby princess and like really like saying, you know, like I really need your help here. Can you like make this sacrifice for me? You know, I can kind of insist that someone do the opposite of what I actually want them to do.
SPEAKER_02Do you think this would be a deaf transition into our topic?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I guess totally. I think it would be.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, let's do it.
What Adulting Really Means
SPEAKER_00Our topic today is adulting. The concept of adulting and like both of our interpretations of it, experiences of it. And I can talk about a little bit in the clinical setting too, how I have talked about this and have guided people in this or you know, process this with people. But yeah, when you hear the word adulting, what comes up for you?
SPEAKER_02Adulting. Okay. I'm cosplaying as an adult. Yeah, LARPing as an adult. LARPing was the word I was trying to think of. FLARPing. LARPing. And it's tongue-in-cheek. I feel like adulting, it almost always has air quotes around it. Yeah, totally. Which maybe is redundant. Yeah, like the purpose of air quotes. Like I'm being ironic. It's like, just say I'm being ironic. Yeah, it's like Does that mean you're not being ironic?
SPEAKER_00So-called is almost like what it is. So why are we putting the air quotes around adulting?
SPEAKER_02Because I feel like someone who would want to adult. Well, A, it's not a word. Would you put air quotes around six seven? I would never really write it, I don't think. I've written it a lot. I guess that's one of the main differences between us.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I guess maybe I would. I guess maybe I would for 67.
SPEAKER_02I wrote for 6'7. Yeah. Original Queen. Yeah. Why are we putting air quotes around it? A, it's not a word.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02B adulting, I think, implies that you maybe feel you have some growing up to do, or perhaps you're in a transitional stage where you still maybe you're in college and we're gonna have a dinner party, and it's the first dinner party we've ever had.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's like a a pretense a little bit of being an adult.
SPEAKER_02Like you don't hear like grandparents being like, I'm adulting, I have my family over for a barbecue.
SPEAKER_00It's isn't it so funny? Like if we like imagine, like just forecast like a Gen Zers being in their 70s, like they're gonna be like, LOL adulting.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no kids, no price. Lol.
SPEAKER_00What is you know, it's like not me adulting.
SPEAKER_02Oh my god, I don't even know what that is. So yeah.
SPEAKER_00They're gonna, yeah, it could be very interesting, but then that will seem old to like the actual young generations of that time. But anyway, I digress.
SPEAKER_02Not me?
SPEAKER_00Like, not you laughing, making me laugh today.
SPEAKER_02Is that like POV adulting?
unknownNo.
SPEAKER_00Okay, you haven't heard like like Gen Zears be like, not you clapping when no one else did. You're like kind of this sounds vaguely familiar. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Not both of you tripping on the way to the bar. Is that a double negative? No, that's a single negative.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's like I'm having trouble explaining it and not just using the example. I mean, our Gen Z listeners, you know what I'm saying. You feel me? Call us. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02You got my number.
SPEAKER_00Help me explain this because that my knowledge has reached its threshold.
SPEAKER_02We need more Gen Z guests.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I think that'd be great. I mean, Sam is Gen Z, I believe.
SPEAKER_02We love Sam.
SPEAKER_00Oh, this is another thing, and this came up at the hospital. These days, a lot of Gen Zers are not wanting to claim Gen Z. They all say, like, oh, I'm on the cusp.
SPEAKER_02Cuspy.
SPEAKER_00And I'm like, you are straight up 10 years younger than me. How are you on the cusp? Then they're not on the cusp. Then I think they're solidly Gen Z and they maybe just want to be millennial. People cannot decide if they hate millennials or they all want to be us.
SPEAKER_02Isn't that the existential question?
SPEAKER_00I guess people can't decide if they hate Gen Z or they want to be them.
SPEAKER_02I feel like people can't decide if they hate themselves or if they love themselves.
SPEAKER_00It's very true. That that's the crux of it.
SPEAKER_02I just filled out my psych intake form today. Does that do psych intake what I what are the terms for those? Psych intake.
SPEAKER_00Like you're being psychiatrically hospital.
SPEAKER_02I'm starting with a new therapist. Shout out therapist.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, Josh is a new therapist. Really exciting.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so I was filling some forms out. And I feel like some of the questions I was like genuinely like asking myself, I was like, do I think very highly of myself or do I like think I'm an absolute failure? And they kind of were putting things in a binary way. Like, what were some of the questions? It's like, do you on the whole feel like you're a failure?
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_02And just days ago, I feel like I had told you about 20 times in a row, like, I'm a total failure. You deserve better.
SPEAKER_00Um and you abandon me.
SPEAKER_02Well, you always deserve better, but like I could say with more levity.
SPEAKER_00But you were you were very activated and saying things that in a non-activated state you don't believe.
SPEAKER_02Well, yeah, it's like 48 hours later, and I'm filling out this form, and I I kind of felt I felt see, this is my OCD. I was like, well, I feel like I'm a hypocrite because just two days ago I said I'm a total failure. But in this moment, and then I was like, am I just like filling this out in like a good mood?
SPEAKER_00No, I think it's like you're more clear today than you were then.
SPEAKER_02I think more often, really, really guilty. I think well, yeah, one of the questions was like, How often do you feel guilt? And I was like, pretty frequently.
SPEAKER_00How much time do you have? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, 10 days out of seven.
SPEAKER_00Ten days out of nine.
SPEAKER_0228 days later.
SPEAKER_00I still feel guilt. Totally. Yeah. Um, we just went off on a tangent there.
SPEAKER_02That's called recording the pod with Jish.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um, adulting.
SPEAKER_02Adulting. Well, I want to compare it to shrinking. No, I'm just kidding. I don't want to go off on another tangent.
SPEAKER_00But wait, wait, where how did we get to where we just got? Oh, we were talking about Gen Z. Gen Z. Yeah, if you hate yourself or love yourself, yeah.
SPEAKER_02So does Gen Z like adulting?
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah. Well, so I I think I actually do think that maybe the term adulting probably came up with millennials. Came up with millennials? Like like millennial the millennial generation.
SPEAKER_02Came up with millennials. Yeah, does it be a good one? Yeah. I I thought you were never mind. I heard it in a weird way. Okay.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um, but yeah, like I I think the idea is like it is a little like lol. I'm doing adult things, even though I don't feel like an adult. Hashtag adulting. And and those adult things being, you know, getting my car, like my uh city sticker, you know, um buying a home. I mean, I buying a home is like way too far. I think when someone's using terms like adulting, they're not quite that advanced. Fantasizing. Maybe it's like home decor, getting into that. It's putting up a tapestry. I feel like that's kind of college.
SPEAKER_02Well, okay.
SPEAKER_00But let's then like like it would be it would be a lot of like maintenance, plumbing. Yeah, I mean, sure.
SPEAKER_02Like fixing a sink.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah, calling a guy to help you do X.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, calling a guy.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, having someone uh do your taxes, doing your own taxes, like stuff like that would be like adulting.
SPEAKER_02Switching off your parents' health insurance, yeah, yeah. Navigating that for the first time.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, like buying your own things, getting your own things fixed, grocery shopping. Yeah, I guess that could be adulting.
SPEAKER_02Making a owner.
SPEAKER_00Trying to think like when someone tells me they did a lot of adulting in a day.
SPEAKER_02Dinner party feels like at the crux of it to me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, dinner party hosting, a dinner party hosting wine and cheese. It's applied a lot of times to like menial tasks. Becoming an alcoholic.
unknownTotally.
SPEAKER_00Um but yeah, I think it's like or like maybe making big purchases like I bought a new bed or I whatever. Like bought a subscription to Amazon, maybe Prime. There's some things that are just like everybody's doing it, adult or not. But like what I'm curious, like your when you do these like adulting tasks, what is it like for you?
SPEAKER_02It's exhilarating.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Oh my god, tell us.
SPEAKER_02Well, I feel I'm associating this with when I moved to Los Angeles because I have a very um supportive mother.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um I was I wrote a poem about this. Like, didn't know how to use the microwave until college. Uh that's probably till seventh grade. Didn't know how to use the microwave until seventh grade. Didn't know how to do laundry till college. And I'm not exaggerating, but it wasn't that I was incapable. I think so many things were taken care of for me. So I think it was nice to be in a position where I really had to take care of things for myself for the first time.
SPEAKER_00So that was kind of your first foray into like I'm far away from home. I've got to kind of do this stuff on my own.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, which of course I did a bit of in college. Like, I'm I I have to think harder to come up with examples, but I just know off the top of my head that I did. Um, but I don't want to spend more time thinking. But I would bring my hamper of laundry home. Cause I went, I I live I went to school, college school at uh University of Michigan.
SPEAKER_00Oh my god, college school.
SPEAKER_02College school, and I saw band concerts.
SPEAKER_00College school.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, but I was 45 minutes away from home. So I would like save up my laundry because I'd be home, you You know, and we'd probably do a lot of laundry. I'd be home at least once a month.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_02And sometimes more. So I would hoard my laundry in the hamper, I'd bring it home, and my mom would do it. But that's not true. I I'm wait. You didn't have to do that. Am I mixing up memories? No, I don't know if I ever did it at Michigan.
SPEAKER_00Oh, really?
SPEAKER_02It's possible I never did my laundry until I moved to Los Angeles.
SPEAKER_00Wow. Okay.
SPEAKER_02Which is like disturbing.
SPEAKER_00I mean, it's okay.
SPEAKER_02But you wouldn't like think that about me now. You wouldn't think of me now as someone who doesn't know how to do his laundry.
SPEAKER_00No, I wouldn't.
SPEAKER_02So I can no longer be adult.
SPEAKER_00Except we did have all those laundry issues.
SPEAKER_02Oh shoot. Thank you. With the mold. It's that black mold.
SPEAKER_01Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay.
SPEAKER_02Sorry. I'm quoting Twin Peaks.
SPEAKER_00I can't laugh. Um what was I gonna say? No, I don't think of you as someone who doesn't know how to do your laundry, despite despite our issues.
SPEAKER_02Well, we all have issues.
SPEAKER_00Of course.
SPEAKER_02Well, I could have body odor, it doesn't mean I don't know how to shower.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Well, you know, I think what you're saying is interesting. Like, you know, going to school so close to home and having a really supportive family just made it a little easier for you to not embrace like those adulting things in college, like at that age. Right.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think I wasn't. I mean, when was I? Yeah, LA, I was into it. You know, not necessarily. I even got into interior design in a way, which you can listen to my sister's speech of our wedding, but I was hanging up my used uh boxers that had lost their elasticity, and you know, I wouldn't even call that like home decor.
SPEAKER_00That was like a modern art.
SPEAKER_02It was some form of adulting.
SPEAKER_00Was it?
SPEAKER_02I was decorating my room.
SPEAKER_00I mean, Josh.
SPEAKER_02I can be weird and be adulting.
SPEAKER_00Right, right. Sure. I think actually, no. I I think that there is in this concept we're talking about. I think we are kind of talking about like joining the horde of like boring adults and doing boring adult tasks. That's an interesting differentiation. I I think, I mean, like I I did like kind of look into like internet definitions on this, and and when it's like quote unquote adulting.
SPEAKER_02Norm core.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, there's like a norm core element to it.
SPEAKER_02And so really till I met you, I feel like my experimental roots were pretty intact.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So maybe a lot of the adulting was well, but you d I know you did adulting in LA because you bought a car.
SPEAKER_02Well, yeah, it was more practical things that needed to be done. Yeah. That I felt exhilarated when I navigated by myself. Yeah. Like negotiating with a car dealer and like getting the price down.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_02Without my mommy there beside me.
SPEAKER_01Totally.
SPEAKER_02Receiving a lot of guidance. I'd be on the phone with my stepdad who's a lawyer and be like, okay, how should I play this?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Okay, here's what he said. How should I play this? But you know, I was going in myself and doing it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And seeking advice.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_02But yes, car was purchased.
SPEAKER_00But you think you did you do more now, like in our life together, adulting?
SPEAKER_02I think my interior decor taste has morphed. Yeah. Into what yours is. Into just fully folding into yours. Sorry. Sorry, sorry, sorry. But it's so cozy. Like, I gotta say, I've never had such a cozy home.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_02I mean, sure, my child, whatever. Mom, I loved her. You you know what I mean. Since I've been an adult.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, your own home.
SPEAKER_02Since I've had my own home. Yeah. This is by far the coziest home I've ever lived in. And yeah. I'm at the stage for this. I think I had my stage where I wanted to feel like the starving artist. Yeah, totally. And home was just like where you hang your hat, kind of thing. Exactly. And there was a certain almost pride in that of like, wow, I'm saving so much money because I'm decorating my wall with like, you know, maps from Universal Studios and the Harry Potter of Chocolate Frogs box.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, we really are so different in that way, and it's it's been fun to navigate with you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, different in our taste.
SPEAKER_02I don't know. No, that's the thing. I don't think we're different in our taste. I think I think it's something I would choose not to spend money on. Oh, oh yeah. But I look around our place and I think, wow, I really love your taste.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, oh, thank you.
SPEAKER_02And you like fun, like you don't you like things to look funky.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, oh yeah.
SPEAKER_02Like if you walk into our place, you probably think I like weird, art and weird. It's like an adult version.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally.
SPEAKER_02But I don't think I don't think our apartment's norm core.
SPEAKER_00No, I don't either. I think it's so great.
SPEAKER_02It's so great. And good.
SPEAKER_00And good. Yeah. Although I'm biased, of course.
SPEAKER_02But um write it right in if you hate our place.
SPEAKER_00Totally. Um adulting is affected, you're alluding to this, but it is affected by like your comfortability with like spending money. Sure. Or even like, well, I guess financial habits are like a form of adulting in themselves.
SPEAKER_02Sure, because I feel like there are so many different things you could spend money on.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Like, is it adulting to go to three concerts every week?
SPEAKER_00Well, this is where we get into some of my like struggles with
Money Fears And Feeling Inadequate
SPEAKER_00adulting. I think the core adulting struggle of mine is like wisdom with money. When I think about adulting in myself, like I kind of feel a lot of times like a baby princess a little bit. Like or like I feel like a baby sometimes, you know, like I don't know what I'm doing, and I'm just kind of pretending. And sometimes I'm comfortable with that. Like I think everyone's kind of pretending a little bit, you know, to like be some norm core adult. You know, we're all unique individuals, and and I don't think anyone's born totally comfortable doing things like your own taxes or I was born comfortable doing my own taxes. It came out that way. But you know, like I think when I hear about people, like there's certain adulting things that'll hear about someone else doing, and I can feel kind of inadequate and like baby princess. Like when people talk about shopping for a home, sometimes I'm like, whoa, that feels intense, you know. That feels like far from me, or if I were like with a realtor looking at homes, I might feel kind of out of place. Sure. And I I do think there's that's probably a common feeling for people.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I'm sure it comes up with everyone in some capacity in some category.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I'm sure everyone has aspects of their life where they could compare themselves to other people and drives themselves drives themselves crazy. Yeah, totally. Maybe some people I I know I well, yeah, we both do that, but in different categories.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I don't do it so much with um like a home someone's living in.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Or home, or like if someone has a baby.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_02Are we gonna have to cut this?
SPEAKER_00You're making me laugh. Sorry.
SPEAKER_02No, okay.
SPEAKER_00Why would we have to cut?
SPEAKER_02I don't know. I just don't want to get too like deep into the thing. Like, no, no, you can't. It's like it's like I'm gonna really quickly, just to like be salacious, push all your like most fragile buttons. Um but yeah, we don't have to necessarily expand upon that. But for me, a lot of the time, it's um well, I mean, what is it for me? What do you think I do the most comparison with?
SPEAKER_00Well, it's like I almost am wondering it's being like empathetic and giving. Well, it's like it's it's interesting to look at like where do you see someone adulting and maybe feel like, can I do that? Like, am I not that we have to take it in this place, but like I know for me, like a struggle. We talk about like struggles and how to navigate them on this podcast. Like adulting, like what's the struggle you find there and and where's like the the wise mind guiding you instead? I think I'm actually so much more capable of adulting than I like believe I am. I think I have like shadows around shadow parts around like I can never really be a full-blown adult with like a home and a child and a car and uh school tuition and you know, whatever. Like I I don't actually believe this in my wise mind, but I think these shadow like beliefs can pop up. You know, like I'm not worthy of that, I'm not together enough for that, I'm not like strong or like, or it's for me, it's not even strong. It's like there's this weird shadow that comes up where it's like I'm not real in the way other people are.
SPEAKER_02That's an interesting way to put it. Yeah. Because you're always real, right?
SPEAKER_00Literally.
SPEAKER_02And you're gonna have moments of feeling weak, and you're gonna have moments of feeling like, yeah, my career's cruising, and I'm spending money on this furniture, and I feel good about it. We're looking at houses, and oh, but they're so expensive, and I just lost five clients, and oh, the next day, oh, I just got seven clients, and we found this cheap place that's like the place of our dreams, and then like, you know, I could go on, but yeah.
SPEAKER_00Well, yeah, it's like none of that makes you not real.
SPEAKER_02That actually makes you more real.
SPEAKER_00Well, and I think some of the work for me has been like going to the part of me that feels not real and like digging in, exploring like where might this come from? What does like this part of me need to like relax and and not take over, you know, the part that makes me feel not real. And you know, sometimes I think what I need is like a combo of things. One thing that helps me is like when other people in my life are adulting and they're vulnerable about it and they're not like superior about it, like which means that what's put on me is like finding and connecting with and talking about adulting stuff with people that don't make me feel inferior. Sure, yeah. Yeah, like I'll say actually, I I talked to Kathleen today, my friend Kathleen shout out, she's gonna be on the podcast on Tuesday, or we're gonna record on Tuesday. But she just bought a house in um Charlotte, North Carolina and very adult, very adult, and really she was so open and you know, like explained like her fears with it and like things going on with it and the process and and really like dumbed it down for me and made me feel very like oh okay. I I wasn't triggered, I wasn't, I didn't believe like, oh, I could never have this. It was a very like safe conversation about it, which was so helpful. I could feel I felt so kind of expanded by that. Yeah. And then like doing little versions of adulting, you know, like little exposures basically to things, or researching, like, you know, buying homes for dummies or doing your taxes for dummies, you know, whatever it is, a Reddit thread, yeah, you know, of like who else has struggled with this, and feeling not alone with it, you know, and and I think realizing like no one's real or more real. Yeah, I'm saying things that are like conclusions, they're not actually the intervention, but I think it is like a part of if a part of me is feeling not real, it's like a matter of me one way or another soothing that part. Yeah. And sometimes I do it in my own EMDR therapy, my own talk therapy. I meditate on that, I do reparenting exercises, I do, you know, like kind of trying to like soothe and comfort a part of me that feels not real. Yeah. It often involves like embracing that part of me and realizing like I don't think any of us are real. We're just like flawed human beings. We're all in the matrix. You know, there isn't this like, oh, here's a real human. Right. You know, we're all a mess. Yeah. And kind of like porous. And the people I think, I think sometimes the people that truly are confident with adulting are probably not thinking a lot about it. They're just kind of doing. They're like light and easy with things. And it's like, and maybe even like curious, right? Like if I want this, I'm gonna take the steps to do it. Yeah. Like true confidence in it often is that like openness and curiosity rather than like, what does this say about me? You know, it's like it's like viewpoint outward instead of viewpoint inward. What kind of house do I want? And how does one buy a house?
SPEAKER_02Totally. I'm gonna look at the houses. Yeah, I'm gonna listen to the houses. Yeah, talk to them. I'm gonna experience the realtor.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02They're real.
SPEAKER_00Their smell, their smell, their taste. Yeah, if you kiss them. If you kiss the thumb. Don't do that. Don't kiss your realtor. Don't do that, yeah. Unless you're both single and it's like after you've done all your business dealings.
SPEAKER_02And even then, you know, do you really like this guy?
SPEAKER_00You might have to buy another house later. Yeah, you'd want to money the water.
SPEAKER_02You may have to buy a lot of houses.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02And until you've bought them all, you might not be real.
SPEAKER_03Oh my god.
SPEAKER_00But yeah, like what is that? Does that bring up anything for you?
SPEAKER_02Which part?
SPEAKER_00Getting triggered by someone else's like practice of adulting or seeing someone else be an adult. Sorry, I like spat into the mic. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Well, is it okay to say what I'm about to say? I don't know. Sometimes I think the thing that triggers me the most is your fear that you're not adulting.
SPEAKER_00Oh, really?
SPEAKER_02And then I almost feel like because I feel like I held it more lightly as a single person.
SPEAKER_03Wow.
SPEAKER_02And I feel like so I'm the problem. Well, no. It's so complicated. Because I do think there's like a part of me deep down that kind of was so satisfied as a single person and felt like there was so much. It's like not. That's like not the full statement. Okay. It's just because it's pain. Um I was so happy before. Well, I think I I think I I think I had an extended stretch where I felt that I was focusing on a lot of adult things, but maybe from an external perspective, that I maybe didn't seem like an appealing candidate to marry because I didn't make enough, or because I don't know. I like because I'm like Josh Bear from Michigan, and I'm like this little kid that kind of dresses normally. And I felt that in LA especially.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah. Tell us about that in LA.
SPEAKER_02I just think I was like very not focused on my image, and I was very focused on my career.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Which is a form of adulting, I guess.
SPEAKER_01Sure. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02But I kind of had this deep-seated belief when you say, Am I the problem? Like, I'm digging deep. Like, I really think I had this belief that I'm going to turn so many people off.
SPEAKER_00Why? What or what would turn them off?
SPEAKER_02Like that you go into my place and I'm clearly not adulting.
SPEAKER_00Oh, okay. Like I'm a baby boy.
SPEAKER_02I don't even know if I felt like a baby boy. I think I felt like a space alien.
SPEAKER_00Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_02Um, so it's almost other. I felt like an adult, an adult alien.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's not like not enough. It's like just other.
SPEAKER_02Who has some non-conformist trappings?
SPEAKER_00Sure, yeah. Like your lifestyle.
SPEAKER_02That someone could look at and be like, I just want a normal guy who's gonna provide for me. And it's almost like in my heart, it's like, well, I know I have the work ethic.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And I know I'm loving. Like, I know there are so many ways in which I am a strong romantic partner, even now, but it's almost like I wasn't ready for it.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_02Also, LA is a weird place, and I wanted to move to Chicago.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And somewhere along the line during COVID, I evolved. But yeah, I think we're both figuring it out.
Couples Spending And Joint Credit Card
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Like you want to decorate our apartment with nice stuff.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And that was never something I did.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_02So it's never something I had to budget for. And I think when we moved in together, I was overwhelmed by the amount. You'd be like, let's get a new couch. And then like a year later, like, let's replace the couch.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_02And I was like, oh wow, like we're never going to be able to save was my fear. Yeah. And but then you'd be worried about saving. And obviously a part of that is just having work. Like, I also had some stretches where work was harder for me than it had been before we met.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, just due to uh uncertainty.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, the economy.
SPEAKER_02Economy. Right.
SPEAKER_00The market.
SPEAKER_02The market. The market is it's a thunderous market out there. Yeah. I think right now we're both feeling a lot more on the same page. Yeah. It's in it's interesting talking about this because I feel like it's not that long ago that this was such a frequent conflict between us.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And lately it's almost like doesn't really it comes up, but I feel like it's something we're on the same page about.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think we sort of needed the conflict to like discover like where each of us needed to let go a little bit or move more toward the other person a little bit. Or guide you or me elsewhere, I think.
SPEAKER_02Like getting a joint credit card.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02That was pretty adult.
SPEAKER_00Because you were hesitant about that, and I've loved every minute of it.
SPEAKER_02I think I worried it would suck all the romance out of our relationship.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. But you didn't realize how much money I was sucking out of your pocket. I did. Well, it's what's so funny is like the joke is on me because it's my pleasure. The joke is on me because I was really like, I think we'll feel so married and so close and and so like settled, really like having the ability to like split everything and and really our money, as our friend says, like right pocket, left pocket, you know, like our money, each of our own money is the others. Like we share everything, and that feels really good. It feels really intimate, and I love it. As a concept, I love it. But what's so funny is when we did it and the first like bill came, I was like, holy fuck, like he was spending so much money on me, and now we're splitting these things that he was paying for himself. And I'm like, whoa, this is definitely gonna cost me this decision. I still stand behind. Okay, should we switch back? No, I 100% it's I know it's wise-minded. Yeah. The structure of it, and honestly, the discipline it requires of me with my own spending and hit managing of like my income is such a good exercise, but it's funny because it's like I am realizing like while you were carrying a huge financial load in our relationship. I didn't fully appreciate that.
SPEAKER_02Well, that's sweet. I don't even know that you've ever really said this like this.
SPEAKER_00Oh, I mean, really, I that that was happening. And yeah.
SPEAKER_02Sometimes you'll be the most articulate on the pod.
unknownTotally, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Because you you've like, there's been murmurs of that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I've said a version of it, but I probably said it in like a jokier way.
SPEAKER_02Maybe I can hear you better on the pod.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, that might be.
SPEAKER_02I have more self-worth on the pod. Perhaps. Because in real life, if you said something like that, I'd probably think, oh, Kelly's just being nice. And um, I wasn't really.
SPEAKER_00No, I I really think I know that you were probably.
SPEAKER_02I know that I was too. And I feel like we I'm happy to do that still.
SPEAKER_00Well, but it feels to me uh the kind of marriage I want is where we both really feel like we contribute and support each other. Well, it's changed the stage. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And yeah, I think we're saving a lot more.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I'm even spending less lately.
SPEAKER_00But you know, isn't that interesting? I think your adulting there is like letting yourself spend on things like home decor and making a beautiful, you know, hospitable home. And for me, adulting is not overspending. It's like having the foresight to save distress tolerance, to save for bigger purchases, to save for the future, to which I was doing, but like I I definitely could stand to do it at a more sizable percentage.
SPEAKER_02I think our pace has slowed on in home purchases.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Well, and that that took uh some trust in you that like when we get a new couch doesn't mean like next week we get a new this and then a new that, and then a you know, there'll be some big purchases and then there'll be times where I think my gut is it's like I want to trust you, but then it's like if I say yes to everything and
SPEAKER_02We end up in a situation where we don't have the money saved. It's like, what do we do? Right. You know, it's like I want a house, but I feel like sometimes I would make peace with it by like, well, maybe we'll never get a house.
SPEAKER_00Well, and I don't even know, like, I'm at a place where I'm like, I want a third bedroom. And like, do I need that to be in a house? Like, not necessarily.
SPEAKER_02I love dreaming.
SPEAKER_00And it's like trusting, like, we have to learn, you and I, to trust our careers and our skills. You know, like you said, like your drive and focus and talent are there. So, like, even in a tough market, like you're always gonna come through.
SPEAKER_02I believe that deep down. Yeah. And I think where I get hung up is like, can we make X happen in X amount of months?
SPEAKER_00Well, the time piece is where you really have to let go. I have to let go.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. That goes beyond adulting. I think that is wisdom. And from now on, when you ask that, I'm just gonna say yes.
SPEAKER_00Yes to what?
SPEAKER_02Yes, I can we can do that.
SPEAKER_00Do what?
SPEAKER_02Like if you're like, do you think we could have a house by the time we're 29? I'm just gonna say yes.
SPEAKER_00We're about 37, essentially. 39. Oh I do like to dream, and then I don't, I don't personally get upset if I don't reach the goal, weirdly. I'm almost to a fault, you know. Like I'm pretty forgiving with like the intentions, you know. But yeah, I think one day it would be nice to have a home. Like a house. I mean, we have a home. Yeah. But a house, I think it seems cool to like design it how you want. And there's a lot of nice things about homeownership. But then there's also a lot of like in today's world, a lot of like burdens with it, and it's different than like our parents buying a home at our age for sure. So I I want to be, and I think we are doing a good job of this, like be open, you know, have ideas, have intentions, but not be so rigidly fixed to them. Like let your life guide you a bit too. Yeah. Yeah, like have some structure and some flexibility.
SPEAKER_02Because that was probably a bit of a manic pixie dream boy before.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Like I remember we had that conversation about planning, and you were like, you never plan. Like, no, I kind of wake up in the morning and I do whatever I feel, and I trust my intuition, and things always work out for me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but I think I like planning. I think I like feeling I think I like adulting, like you were saying. I do think it is exhilarating and like empowering.
SPEAKER_02But I think sometimes when it's vague, it's like let's plan. I'll be like, I don't know how to do that. But then if you're like make this spreadsheet, I'm like, okay, I can do that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, totally. Have I ever said make this spreadsheet? No, I'm like allergic to a spreadsheet. My planning is like sitting down and talking.
SPEAKER_02When you used to say let's plan, I feel like you wanted me to come up with a spreadsheet.
SPEAKER_00No.
SPEAKER_02Or like a PowerPoint presentation showing how I'm gonna provide for you.
SPEAKER_00No, I don't want that at all. But and when I think about like adulting and like in the clinical setting when people struggle with this, it's always interesting to explore the struggle.
Therapy Tools For Adulting Anxiety
SPEAKER_00I mean, I say this a lot on this podcast, but like I and I would recommend that to any listeners, like come to know the struggle itself. Like, what does adulting doing some of these tasks, right? Going and like getting your real ID, if you're gonna go to the DMV and do that. And you notice, like, I feel really anxious about that. Like, really pay attention to that. And if you're in therapy, it's a great place to like double click and really wonder. Like, I wonder what it brings up, what I'm afraid is gonna happen. You know, if I just waltz in there and do that, am I fearful that something will happen to me? I'll feel something I can't handle. I'll, you know, they're gonna arrest me because I have the wrong documents. Like, what's there?
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00And and like I often do in my work is like float that back to like maybe where have you felt insecure in the same way before? Or what kind of coping skills can you use for that? Can you both feel afraid and cope with it? You know, can you ring a friend who's equally afraid and you two emotionally support each other as you go?
SPEAKER_02Find a scared friend.
SPEAKER_00Find a really scared friend who loves DMV. Who loves the DMV? But yeah, it's like there's a lot of ways to move through that. And it can be an interesting like reflection. I think I do this, and a lot of people do this, like conflate being an adult with like financial wealth.
SPEAKER_02Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_00You know, like, oh, being wealthy means you're more together, you're more adult, you're better.
SPEAKER_02But you could be a millionaire and be a baby princess.
SPEAKER_00Totally, totally. And you know, like I think it's a good thought. I mean, I believe in my heart that they are separate, and I know that I can get in a place, a part of me can conflate them, but really being an adult is like doing things like security-related tasks with I don't even want to say confidence, it's like with openness and honesty. Jumping off the cliff a bit and doing these things that are a step forward, you know, from where you are. A new, a new space.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00You know.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. In the in the metaphysical sense, I feel like doing something uncomfortable.
SPEAKER_00Like being in your like most vital self, your wise mind. It's often like a beginner's mind, right? It is like being open and curious and not knowing everything. Kind of being confident in your not knowing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I guess it's a dialectic because I feel like on the one hand, we're talking about the behaviors that go along with adulting.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And now we're starting to talk about the mindsets that go along with adulting.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Which maybe turns it from the like quote unquote adulting to like this like growth and like actualization of self.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah. And you can even do that as a kid. Yeah. Totally. Like, oh, I'm gonna switch schools because my parents made me. Yeah. And it's my first day of sixth grade, and I don't know anyone, and I'm gonna like go talk to a friend. Yeah. I don't think at the time I was like, oh, I'm adulting.
SPEAKER_00Right, right. But I was like, I'm like, But you might have said, like, I'm gonna be a big kid, or like, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And then I went home and cried. And then I made a bunch of new friends.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02All in the same day.
SPEAKER_01Really?
SPEAKER_02No, it was like over the course of a year.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02But it's these, what is it? These growth edges.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02That are very adult.
SPEAKER_01Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Very explicit.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, like a lot of growth edges are a lot, like you get pushed out of the nest a lot in life. It can be really scary, but that's often how you do like grow and transcend. Push out of the nest, learn to fly. So that I mean, that's another kind of like tip. Like, if you're not getting pushed out of the nest, maybe push yourself out. You know. Push your mom out. Well, because like even in my example with the with the credit card, I it is costing me more money every month to do it. And I know in my heart it is the best decision.
SPEAKER_02I feel so heartbroken because it's costing me less money every month. Well, that's a direct trade-off. Totally. So like me feeling relief and you feeling stress.
SPEAKER_00No, I I don't feel stress about it. I feel like, you know what? This is a really important challenge for me. And I think it's a better structure for our family. You know, if you're pretending to be okay with it. I'm not.
SPEAKER_02You're LARPing.
SPEAKER_00I'm LARPing.
SPEAKER_02You're, should I say adulting at it?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I'm adulting at being okay with this. Okay.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02We'll move on.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I think that that's our little discussion on that. But I'm curious, you know, people's thoughts or experiences with adulting, you know. Or I mean, and if you hate that term, I hear you. It's not like I like it. Yeah. It's like very like memeable or whatever. But you know, it it's come up in a lot of different spaces lately. So I think, yeah, it's a I think it's an interesting one. And yeah, we wanted to talk about it. But we'll move on to our how wise is it?
How Wise Is Budgeting
SPEAKER_00And this is kind of related to adulting. How wise is it to use a budget. I'm stomped. Do you use a budget? No. No. And I it's like I would sit here and like lie like a rug and be like, I use a budget. I make a budget. Do I use it?
unknownNo.
SPEAKER_02I think I don't make one, but I use one. I budget, but I never make it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you are a natural budgeter.
SPEAKER_02Well, again, a part of the way I did that was by doing zero adulting. Or by doing zero interior decor. And I will I will say things, I will say things that are important to you for me to spend on that I didn't used to spend on before. Equals a child. No. Equals I'm gonna say two things. Clothing, interior decorating.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Obviously, both are things that I well, I don't know. Clothing. I got a lot of clothes thrown at me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And I would just wear those clothes. Totally.
SPEAKER_00Um we couldn't be more different in this.
SPEAKER_02And I wouldn't see an article of clothing and be like, I need that. Unless unless it was a band shirt.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02But I wouldn't go and buy myself shorts. I would buy myself running shoes if mine were getting rotten.
SPEAKER_00Because I need like Yeah, you wear your clothes until they are rotten. Somewhat. It's a good thing. I think it's admirable in so many ways.
SPEAKER_02I I said I got all my furniture and I moved to LA from the goodwill and didn't look back. And I had drawers that were like kind of falling apart. I think I eventually got new drawers from IKEA that I built wrong, and my friend Wes had to come and disassemble it and like rebuild it.
SPEAKER_00Oh that's nice.
SPEAKER_02Um, that was adulting.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, woodworking is adulting.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So you think it's wise for you not to use a budget because you naturally budget.
SPEAKER_02But it's also wise for me if you say, let's budget, just to say sure.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And then be silent until you say a next comment. And to or or just wait for you to stop. Wait for you to ask me to build a spreadsheet.
SPEAKER_00I can't stop.
SPEAKER_02But then I'm like, what's going in this spreadsheet?
SPEAKER_00Ooh, okay. This is hurting.
SPEAKER_02Sorry.
SPEAKER_00It's okay.
SPEAKER_02Um, but I've gotten more into Google AI, so I think now I would probably just like type into Google AI, and I'm we're getting a good amount of hate online for our uh Google AI generated imagery.
SPEAKER_00Um I don't care.
SPEAKER_02But also a lot of love. I don't know.
SPEAKER_00I think it's like fine if AI is like animating stuff. I don't know.
SPEAKER_02To like make a cartoon version of you.
SPEAKER_00Whatever. I guess I don't know enough about it. I'm I'm kind of anti-AI in some ways, but I'm also like some of it's neutral.
SPEAKER_02This is our conversation on New Year's Eve, remember?
SPEAKER_00Some of it doesn't really. It's like you can't fight City Hall.
SPEAKER_02It's just too much fun to make these cartoon versions of you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. My beautiful cartoon-wise. I am loving those. They're funny.
SPEAKER_02Okay. But okay, so you I would plug into AI. How do I budget?
SPEAKER_00Now that to me seems a little silly because it's like all the inputting you'd have to do to get the budget would just be the budget before AI even intervened.
SPEAKER_02Part of the issue with me budgeting is my income changes so frequently.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02The inconsistency with the amount of money that comes in monthly. I think I kind of just need to use my spidey sense.
SPEAKER_00And you are naturally very good at that. So I think for you it is wise to just intuit more. And you and you kind of have the mantra of like always be saving. Ish. Ish.
SPEAKER_02But like always not to a toxic degree at all. But it's almost like always be saving so you can always be spending, which is a tricky dialectic.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Always be sp saving so that you can always spend on the things that are important to you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think you're value aligned in your spending, and I think that's great.
SPEAKER_02And that's gonna change over time.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02There was a point at which it was only be spending on three concerts a week.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And alcohol.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And like really don't spend much on anything else. And I think even now it's like, oh, here are these like six bands I like. And I'm like, just cool it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Like, wait to be like wait to be like, oh god, we need to go see this show.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02We've got concerts coming up. We're going to see Haley Williams. We're going to see Father John Misty. I'm going to see Pavement. I think there were times in my life where I'd be like, I've got like 20 shows in the next few months. Yeah. And now you're a dad of four kids. Now I'm a dad of four kids and I don't have time. Yeah. I also play in a band. Pavement.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_02Um.
SPEAKER_00Okay. I like that. I think for me, I make a budget. And you know, you bring up a good point because my income is somewhat variable too. I'm a fee for service. Less than mine, but practice I have. More than some. Yeah. But I I often will base it on the previous year's tax return. Because typically my income goes up. No, actually, last year that wasn't the case, but by a marginal amount. So most of the time it does go up. So I kind of base it on that. And I will write down all my expenses. I'll even go through like all my statements and make sure I have all the expenses. And sometimes when I do that, I realize I'm like paying for Planet Fitness and not going and whatever. Okay. So smoothie fitness or whatever. Planet Smoothie. Planet Smoothie. Smoothie Fitness. Planet Smoothie.
SPEAKER_02Um, you get your budget app from Planet Budget.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um, so I will write down, like kind of like exhaustively write down all my expenses and write down like what's left over. And then I try to, you know, save 20% and what's left over is like for spending, for fun spending, you know, like clothing, I love fun spending decor, whatever. Fun like on my nails. Fun.com.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00On your nails.
SPEAKER_02For my website, josh.bear.bear films.
unknownStop.
SPEAKER_00You keep making me that. Um, but I'll make this budget, this like fancy ass budget. And then it's like I close the little notebook, I put it on a shelf, and I don't fucking look at it at all.
SPEAKER_02Like how you used to throw your little tiny pages of homework out the window.
SPEAKER_00I do that. I do that so much. I will write a note and I will never ever again share FaceTime with it. Oh, I'll do that. Okay. But I do think I'll have the sense of like, what really can I put on this credit card that's reasonable in this month? And I'm not perfect at following it, but I do think it helps. I think the writing of it, it's sort of in my mind. So I don't need to like be checking and cross-referencing and like I'm just never gonna be that person. It's more like I've got the big idea at the beginning. I write it down, I get the sense, what's reasonable for me to spend. And then I'm like, okay, moving on. Not looking at that budget for a really long time.
SPEAKER_02Sure. Um so would it be a takeaway, like maybe spend slightly less on clothes? Or am I oversimplifying it?
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_02Like you're not like adding up every purchase as you go. You're not like tallying.
SPEAKER_00But I have a credit card statement that I'm looking at in the month.
SPEAKER_02And you look at it every day, each day?
SPEAKER_00Uh I look at it several times a week.
SPEAKER_02So are you hurting so much?
SPEAKER_00I am hurting. I laughing really.
SPEAKER_02Fuck, I'm really sorry.
SPEAKER_00It's okay. It's okay. It does really hurt. I don't even think you're trying to be funny, but you are I am.
SPEAKER_02You're making me laugh. Well, sometimes I'm not.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, like I will look at it several times a week to have a sense of like where am I at in this in the month and I do keep it. Yeah. So what it's like So I guess we are budgeting a little.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I guess I'm budgeting. I'll I'll look at what I spend and yeah, I'll notice I have a subscription that I'm no longer using, or I'll notice that my account got hacked and be like, well, that's not budgeting. That's adulting. Well, that's not good. And end of episode. Thank you, blanket forts for the music.
SPEAKER_00Oh dear. I'm gonna have to check this wound.
SPEAKER_02Sorry.
SPEAKER_00Um, it's okay.
SPEAKER_02Did it open back up? No, no, I think it's okay. I'm really sorry. I've been an unsurprising, I've been an abusive husband.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think we're doing some version of budgeting, but we're definitely not gonna be the person who's like checking everything and like staring at the spreadsheet and blah, blah, blah. That's just not wise for us. I think if it causes you suffering or you really struggle to follow it, try a new version. Remember when I read that money book and like I couldn't sleep at night? Right. Josh and I read Rum Eat Safety's I Will Teach You to Be Rich. Um, and I felt deeply empowered by it. And Josh had a spiral.
SPEAKER_02And then like took two or three nuggets from it that actually were useful.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, which I think really any of these books.
SPEAKER_02It was canceling my it was going through all my subscriptions and canceling some of them.
SPEAKER_00And I have read like Dave Ramsay books and stuff. I do feel very empowered by these books on like how to organize your finances. Dave Ramsey has a bit of a different take. He's a little harsh, but I kind of liked his brand of harsh, where he would really be like, the person in the mirror is the issue.
SPEAKER_02I think I could handle them now. Yeah. I was reading them the month before I proposed to you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you made a big purchase.
SPEAKER_02I was just worried you were making a huge mistake by marrying me.
SPEAKER_00Oh, it was fear. And how do you feel about that now? Not scared. Yeah, I do feel like I made a huge mistake by marrying you.
SPEAKER_02Well, I think I was saying that like three days ago. I actually wasn't even saying that three days ago. No, of course I don't think that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, of course. I think you're you were learning in real time that like we're doing all this together. And it's not like you're some man who has to like deliver me some adult life on a platter. Like we build that together.
SPEAKER_02But maybe I can work on my anxiety.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So then I don't need to trigger you every two seconds, every day.
SPEAKER_00Totally. I think that's great.
SPEAKER_02It'll be every three seconds every day.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Every fourth second.
SPEAKER_02Every fourth fourth wing. Every time you read fourth wing, which is once a day.
SPEAKER_03Definitely.
SPEAKER_00Oh man. Okay. Well, maybe that's an episode. That's our time.
SPEAKER_02That's our time. We're out of time.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
Listener Write-In And Plugs
SPEAKER_00Well, tell us your thoughts on budgeting, if it's wise, adulting, your experiences there. We're so curious. Write in. And yeah, if you want to reach me, you can find me at kkpsychotherapy.com. I um have an inquiry page there where if you want to work with me, you can reach out. If you have ideas for the pod, if you have your own pod and you want to have me on, if you want to be on our pod, anything, really anything, I'd love to hear from you. And how about you, Doc?
SPEAKER_02And nothing at all. I'm gonna go ahead and plug Mitski because I feel like I've been name-dropping all these other albums, and I didn't mention hers because she's like in the Spotify top 500. Um, I've just been so obsessed with her recently.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, her new album is so, so, so good.
SPEAKER_02And all her albums.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02She's just a national treasure.
SPEAKER_00Wonderful. She's such a great list.
SPEAKER_02Mitsuki. Just check her out. I'm not gonna like try to describe it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um love the new album.
SPEAKER_01Love it.
SPEAKER_02And you can reach me at joshbayerfilms.com. That's Bayer as in the aspirin, B-A-Y-E-R. And there is a contact form there where you can contact me and you can ask me questions. Will you edit my movie? Will you edit my podcast? Will you film my movie? Will you film my podcast? And also if you want to be on the podcast, kind of everything that Kelly said, but that's my website.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And um, I would be a guest on your podcast, I guess.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, totally.
SPEAKER_02I got chords.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah, you might we might have to duke it out who gets to be the guest, Josh and I.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, but usually not me.
SPEAKER_00We'll figure it out. Well, not necessarily depends on what it is.
SPEAKER_02Because you're a woman, hear me roar.
SPEAKER_00Okay, thanks everyone.
SPEAKER_02Thank you for joining.
SPEAKER_00And we miss John, but we'll see him next time. Or in two times, actually.
SPEAKER_02In two times. We really miss John.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we have two guests next week. That'll be so great.
SPEAKER_02Neither of which are John.
SPEAKER_00Neither of which are John.
SPEAKER_02But we love ya.
SPEAKER_00We love ya. All right. Take care.
SPEAKER_02Take care. Thanks again, blanket four.
SPEAKER_00Thanks again, blanket fore.
SPEAKER_02It's bye.
Disclaimer And Closing
SPEAKER_00The WiseMind Happy Hour Podcast is for entertainment purposes only, not to be treated as medical advice. If you are struggling with your mental health, please seek medical attention or counseling.