🥳 the psychology of THE BIRTHDAY 🥳 (feat. Dr. Alisa Bayer, PhD)

We all have mixed feelings about our birthday...right? Whether it's mortality, aging, or simply "celebrate me / don't celebrate me," birthdays can bring out the best and/or worst in us. Dr. Alisa Bayer, PhD joins us for a deep-dive into the unpacking of what it means to celebrate one's birthday as an adult.

💿 music by blanket forts 💿

Transcript

Welcome Back And Meet The Guest

SPEAKER_06 0:04

Welcome to the Wisemind Happy Hour. I'm Kelly.

SPEAKER_05 0:08

And I'm John. We're back.

SPEAKER_06 0:09

We're back. We're back. And we have a very special guest tonight. Our first returning guest. This is huge for us. Which is huge for us. Yes, it's Dr. Elisa Bayer, therapist, and my mother-in-law, Josh's mother.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

Yay. Welcome, babe. Welcome.

SPEAKER_06 0:29

Welcome back to the pod. How does it feel to be back?

SPEAKER_01 0:32

Very exciting. There's a lot of new technology going on. Yes. We have a whole new setup, really.

SPEAKER_05 0:37

Yeah, I mean, we've really upped the game. We've upped the game. We used to just be willy-nilly about it, and now we're locked in.

Beer Tasting And Culture Cringe

SPEAKER_06 0:44

Yeah. Yeah, we have a table, some new microphones, some new microphones, you got the swag, which looks great. It's very exciting. Yeah. Honored to be here. Okay, well, welcome. We'll do a little check-in. John, tell us what's what's new with you.

SPEAKER_05 1:01

What's new with me? I was thinking about this on the way over. I went to a uh a beer tasting at this place called Beer Miskus. Oh, I've Lincoln Avenue.

SPEAKER_06 1:09

I've heard of Beer Miskus.

SPEAKER_05 1:10

So it's a really cool place. There's like a lot of board games there. And the reason I was thinking about it on the way over is, well, number one, I don't drink, so I just went to like socialize and things like that. But I feel like beer people have something going on with like trying to be wine people. Oh, tell us. Well, the the guy, a really nice guy who was like hosting it, yeah, and like handing out the little like tastings, but it was almost like so overdone of like the notes and the no's and the at a certain point you just kind of want to be like, this is beer.

unknown 1:46

Right.

SPEAKER_05 1:46

Chill. Am I maybe I'm not in the no on like beer culture these days, but um it seemed really super nice guy. I'm not like making fun of him at all. It just was kind of like at a certain point, yeah. And even like with when people are like really like that with wine, I'm kind of like, whatever. Yeah, that can be a bit much too like the whole like tasting the notes and stuff like that. I don't know. So I was thinking about that when I was there, uh like looking at people and they're all like, yeah, this is like the toasted whatever they were talking about. I can't even like really take this seriously because it's just beer.

SPEAKER_06 2:26

Yeah. You know, it's like hoppy. I know. It's like I'm curious, like, have you ever been in that environment where they're like overdoing like a wine tasting? A little pretentious, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:37

Yeah, I definitely. But I think part of it is if you're so passionate about the topic, then the more passionate you are, the more detail-oriented you are. So maybe for those people, yeah, it's they don't get saturated with the level of detail.

SPEAKER_06 2:52

It's like I've always wondered this about like people that treat beer like that. It's like, is this just like an excuse to drink a lot?

SPEAKER_05 2:59

Yeah. But it's also, it was also no, granted, this was an event for just like parents to socialize and have fun with one another and raise money for my kids' school. But it was funny too, because the description was really long, and then you'd have this small thing, and parents were like taking it and be like, Oh, that's horrible. Like they weren't even like trying to be like, or they were like, Yep, sounds good. I'll take another. Like they weren't even trying to like describe it in more detail. Like this guy was putting so much effort, and people were just like slinging it back and being like, Great, have another instead of saying, Yeah, I can totally taste the nose of the tannins. Oh, the tannins. See, I don't even know. Yeah, I can taste the one hop that came from the area or you know, that type of thing. Yeah, so yeah, I guess you're right. Anybody who is into something can go into so much detail, yeah, and it's so important to them.

SPEAKER_01 3:50

Yeah, it's like you know, I don't connect to beer though. Yeah, it was so popular in college, and I just never acquired the beer taste or interest.

SPEAKER_05 3:59

Well, maybe you weren't smelling the notes. Maybe I wasn't.

SPEAKER_01 4:02

Maybe I didn't know good beer from more distinguished, refined beer.

SPEAKER_06 4:08

IPA. I feel like I used to like beer in college. I loved Bud Light. I was a Bud Light gag. Were you for a while, and then I totally stopped drinking beer.

SPEAKER_05 4:18

I really liked beer. I used when I used to drink, I liked beer a lot, but I was never into the whole like this tastes like fancy. I mean, sure, like it's great to have different tasting beers, but never to the extent of I don't know. What I will say, what I really appreciate about beer these days is there's so many cool designs on the cans. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 4:40

Like, yeah, yeah. It's cool.

SPEAKER_05 4:42

Anyway, but but that was something I did on Friday, which was just kind of I was thinking, I was like, man, people are so into this. Yeah, it's like a cultural thing. Right. I guess you could do that with anything.

SPEAKER_06 4:52

Yeah. I'm sure people think that about like the way I'm into food.

SPEAKER_05 4:56

Like people are probably a little like, all right, take it easy. Yeah, or the way that like we talk about music, or sure, they're like, get over it, just put something on or listen to it.

SPEAKER_06 5:06

They're like, it's just good. It's just fine. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 5:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 5:09

Yeah. So it's like I'm not being so fair and like what I think is legit. But yeah, beer, like, it just doesn't feel as nuanced as some other things to me. I think that's what it is. Even wine, like, I love wine. It kind of doesn't love me, but if I drink wine, like I can't tell all these different notes. I'm more just like, oh, I like this. Right. Or I don't. It's like, I I guess I like almost like a juicier red wine. Okay. That's as much as I could really say. Juicy. Yeah. Great description. Yeah. As opposed to like super dry.

SPEAKER_05 5:41

Got it.

SPEAKER_06 5:42

Yeah. Yeah. That's like really it. Those are good descriptions. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 5:45

Better than I was coming up with.

SPEAKER_06 5:47

I mean, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 5:47

And maybe it is kind of the idea of just like beer in general, which is a little bit more like common.

SPEAKER_06 5:53

Well, it's like casual. Yeah. It's like, yeah, this is interesting.

Sleepovers And Sibling Boundaries

SPEAKER_05 5:58

Is it though? But anyway, it was something I was something I was toying with in my head. Uh Wes had a sleepover on Saturday, so that's almost funny.

SPEAKER_06 6:08

They're in sleepover.

SPEAKER_05 6:11

It's like crazy how much. I guess we were like that too. We were always like, whose house are we going to? And when are we sleeping over? And they always try to finagle it no matter what they're doing during the day. It always ends up, can I sleep over there? Or can somebody sleep over here? Or it's that's always the end.

SPEAKER_01 6:28

It's the pinnacle of your play day. It's the pinnacle moment.

SPEAKER_05 6:32

That's why we always have the you know stuff packed already. We throw it in the car just in case it happens, and that's oh, you're so good. We have like toothbrushes at our house just in case like their friends come over.

SPEAKER_06 6:46

Did did you guys watch the show Girls?

SPEAKER_05 6:48

No.

SPEAKER_06 6:49

In the last season, Adam Driver's character is like telling this anecdote where he's like, Do you remember like when you're young and you're not really ready yet to have a sleepover? But like it's kind of coming, and other kids are starting to do it. And that he's like, you just like hit this turning point where it's like, not only are you ready to have a sleepover, but if there's a sleepover happening and I'm not there, like I'm gonna lose it. Yeah, like I have to be at the next sleepover. It's a little bit more. I was like, that's kind of true. Like, you do hit a point where you're like, I'm ready for this.

SPEAKER_05 7:22

Yes, yeah. And I think Wes is really good at observing that happening if he isn't able to go to one and just kind of like notice it. Yeah, I can tell it like impacts him. Totally. He doesn't, though, go to this like meltdown place, yeah. Well, good, good, but definitely, yeah, but definitely he'll be like he'll just kind of like mention it. He'll be like, Well, Felix is sleeping over at Luke's house, and then it's just kind of like an observation, just making polite conversation about that. Okay, is that what is that? Is that a question? Is that are we just noting that? So um I love it's really adorable.

SPEAKER_06 8:01

That is so cute.

SPEAKER_05 8:02

But yeah, it's also interesting too because it when we first started having them, Shane was just he could not not be around them. Yeah, you know, he can't have sleepovers yet. We kind of come up with this rule of like you can't have one until you're in third grade. That's just kind of the random thing we came up with. Yeah, yeah. Um, he's so when Wes first started having him, he was like, I have to be on top of them, knowing, right? And so he's actually matured a lot with you know, he still tries to, you know, play with them and he's more capable of not being with them the whole time, which uh I'm proud to see that yeah maturity and like he's holding back, he's holding back, he doesn't have to be with them the whole time. Um so it's nice, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 8:49

It's tough with a younger sibling, like my younger is four years younger, John, and he as a kid was such a Tasmanian devil. My mom would be like, please, can you let him play with you? I'd be like, No, I would always say no, always, right?

SPEAKER_05 9:06

So mean yeah, and I'm proud of them both ways because Wes does allow him to tag along, yeah. And Shane is maturing a little bit more, not having to do that. Yeah, yes, totally. Um, but yeah, third grade. I don't know why we decided that, but that was like magic.

SPEAKER_06 9:23

Well, maybe did you notice Wes was like seemed to be ready at that point?

SPEAKER_05 9:27

I think other kids were having them. Oh, yeah. And then we just were like, yeah, well, maybe that's something he would want to do. Yeah. And we I we had a few false starts where we got some calls, you know, yeah, late at night. I don't know, I think I want to come home. That kind of worked itself out. But yeah, we because I remember having sleepovers when I was in first grade.

SPEAKER_06 9:48

Really?

SPEAKER_05 9:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 9:49

Did I definitely first or second grade, I think. I don't know how old. Maybe second grade. Yeah. But I wouldn't even know. Yeah, when did you let your kids?

SPEAKER_01 9:56

I have my kid. Are you when did you have sleepovers? I was thinking I have no idea for myself, but I probably had sleepovers for the kids. I don't know, Josh might know. How old were you? Young.

SPEAKER_03 10:09

Six, seven.

SPEAKER_01 10:10

I feel like six seven.

SPEAKER_03 10:15

That's the first time I like did it innocently.

SPEAKER_00 10:18

He truly just surprised me.

SPEAKER_03 10:19

Oh my god. Six seven. Six, seven is out to get me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:24

I think that you I think you guys were pretty young.

SPEAKER_03 10:27

Yeah. Yeah, like just probably six, seven.

SPEAKER_00 10:29

Probably when they expressed interest. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 10:32

Now, were you like making the breakfast in the morning? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Eggs in a basket. My um go-to uh breakfast. I love making I love making the breakfast. What do you make? Uh, this past time we did bacon and pancakes per their request, but I also went to the store and got them donuts.

SPEAKER_01 10:53

So oh my god, you did it all.

SPEAKER_05 10:55

Yeah, it was great. We have food out too.

SPEAKER_01 10:57

So are you having more than one kid's sleep over?

SPEAKER_05 11:00

This was just one this time. For Wes's birthday last year, we had five over. Whoa, which was a lot for his 10th birthday. It was it was a blast. They barely got any sleep though. Right. We had them over, we had dinner, but they were up and they were up early, so it was a lot of bodies. Wow. It's a lot of bodies, and you've seen our place. I mean, it's not that big, but they were all downstairs in that main area. So wow.

unknown 11:28

Oh my god.

Apartment Hunting And Gut Feelings

SPEAKER_05 11:29

Yeah, but anyway, so I digress. What about you?

SPEAKER_06 11:33

So the big thing going on with Josh and I is we have been looking for a new apartment and we found one. Whoa. I know, so exciting. We spent like it's next door to me, right? Yeah, it's in your basement. It's in your community. Talk about sleepovers. That would be so fun if we moved in next door, truly. I mean, we would love it. The kids meal, yeah. That would be so fun. So we looked at a bunch. Did we look at any Friday? No, it was mostly the weekend. Saturday. Saturday, really. I think we saw five places. Wow. And it's funny how it's like the one we were like, maybe it'll be this one. We walked in, and the second we were in there, we were like, Nope. Like it just didn't feel right. Although there was this cute little boy in the one, and the whole time we're touring the place, he just kept like asking us questions and like talking to us. He was like, Excuse me, I have one more question. He's like, What does Pikachu say? Like, as he was watching Pokemon. He lives there, yeah. A bunch of people were in the units when we toured. Which was interesting.

SPEAKER_05 12:38

I guess because it's Saturday, it's a little harder. Did somebody ask if that child comes with the I basically was like, I don't want this place, I do want this.

SPEAKER_06 12:47

She's a fixture that comes with. And he was like, She she showed us the back area. She's like, This is like the back door. He looks at me and tells he goes, I love to take walks. He's selling the place. He was adorable. It was crazy how cute he was. Yeah. But yeah, so that one we didn't like as much. And then we saw a few others, and this one had an open house, and right the one we ended up getting, we walked in there, and it was like we could feel it right away. Like, this feels like it. It's interesting how you get that feeling.

SPEAKER_05 13:19

Yeah. Whether it's one way or the other. It's like, no, definitely not. Or yeah.

SPEAKER_06 13:24

Yeah, you can kind of like picture your life there, and you're like, yeah. And you start to like kind of fantasize about your life there a bit. There's like a second floor with this cute little like staircase, and it's like a really fun upstairs. It's a lot more space, which is amazing. So we're so excited, and like we're in the process of signing the lease. But of course, like it's like an older building. Is your house an older building?

SPEAKER_05 13:51

Uh, our place was built in '99.

Lead Paint Fear And Real Risk

SPEAKER_06 13:54

You're so lucky because you get to avoid all this. So we got one of those like disclosures for that they have to do for houses. Right. I already told Lisa this houses built after night or before 1978 for like lead radon. And radon, yes. So I'm like reading through the lead paint and like, of course, kind of freaking out. Like, oh no, you know, like they warn you especially about pregnant women, and I'm hoping to be pregnant in this place, and like young kids and lead or whatever. So now I I mean, I I could teach at like lead university, I feel like basically because I've gone down such a spiral with like I for I went to Josh and was kind of like, I don't know if we can get this place. Like, and we both like kind of instantly started to grieve it a little bit, and then we like slowed down. We're like, we're gonna ask some people. And my dad always is a lawyer and he always looks at my leases. So I was like, maybe I'll talk to him and my friend who's a lawyer. I was like, I'll talk to her too and see, like, based on like how standard this is, how worried to be about it. My dad was pretty much like, don't worry about it. He's like, that's more for people in these like slums where they don't keep up the property and there's chipped lead paint and kids lay around and it needed and whatever. They're not super supervised, which is really sad that it affects that community so much more. And then my mom was kind of like, I think it's probably fine, but she was like, I would call your brother, who is a doctor and and has young kids and an old house that he lives in. So she's like, I know he's tested for lead in the house. Did you guys, you know, you don't have to because you're 99. We didn't have to. Okay. So it's funny because yeah, yeah, well, we but that uh yeah, we didn't have to. You didn't have to. So I call my brother and he's like at work, and I'm like, do you have a second talk? We like talked for so much longer than either of us had time for. But I was like asking him about lead, and he was saying I was telling Lisa this. He's like, I'm I'm just gonna preface this with, I'm way too worried about lead. I think about it all the time. I am like obsessed with this issue.

SPEAKER_04 16:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 16:13

So and he was like, I've never gotten a place where I had any of this testing done beforehand. I've just like got in the place and tried to figure it out on the back end. So they got their home. And he was saying in Cleveland, like people waive these like rights to test because it's like nobody wants anyone to know there's lead. And you kind of he said, if a house is built before 1978, assume there is lead paint. There just is, probably. Most, most likely. So it's kind of more a matter of like how risky is this? Like, is it decrepit? Okay, is it deteriorating?

SPEAKER_05 16:49

It's like dust particles and chips, chimps, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 16:53

And like kids playing and getting into it. He was like, I wouldn't worry more about a pregnant woman. He's like, it's dangerous for everybody. So, like, just keep that in mind. Kids more likely to get in because they put their hands in their mouth and they play around. And a bunch of kids are at high risk, like if there's lead paint chipping on the outside of a house and they're playing like in the soil, probably. That's actually where like a lot of kids get lead poisoning, according to the guy. He hired a guy who just went around with him and tested and showed him like where there were high levels of lead, like what to do in those areas, which is like keep it neat and tidy, like vacuum, wash your hands a lot if you're over there. You know, basically like just be careful in that way. And so it's like we were talking about all these different things, like where I was like, should I ask him if the guy had checked on the form and it waves the right to test? So then I was like, oh dear, should I not sign this? Like I think what we decided, which we feel pretty good about, is we're gonna go forward with it and in the month before, because we have it a month early, have someone come and just tell us like where it is and if it's okay. And if it's like catastrophic, we'll just try to get out of the lease, which my dad said should be pretty easy. He's like, I don't think there'll be catastrophic lead in there, but if there is, yeah, you could break the lease. Because I don't think you can really ask them to let you test it because they actually don't want to test it because then they have to disclose it to every subsequent renter. So it's tricky. Yeah, but like, and then I said to my brother, I was like, and the mental toll of thinking about the lead, he's like, Yeah, it's the biggest part of it. It's like pure help. Yeah, he's like, I think about it too much, I probably think about it more than I need to. Right. And his kids have been tested for lead because all kids at like two get tested. Yeah, they do, yeah. I guess now it's standard because Leah was telling me that her little girl is about to turn to and she's like, How did they get tested? They go with the doctor, but is it a blood test? The blood test, yeah, it's a blood test. And Kevin said none of the girls had any lead issues. But so I feel oh, and then I finally at the end of the call, I said to my brother, I was like, And do you think about mold? And he was just goes, sometimes. But he's like, I don't worry about it as much. I'm like, God, it's so many worries, like yeah, with especially with kids, and like this is the first time we're thinking about a child, right? And now I'm we're going crazy. Like, I think I'm more going crazy, but it's like worrisome, you know. You're like, I don't wanna, I don't know. I don't want to like do neurological damage, right?

SPEAKER_05 19:42

Yeah, yeah, that's fair, and then part of me, of course, was I mean that is a fairer worry to uh among all the other worries of having children. It's just like there's so much to worry about. There's so much to worry about.

SPEAKER_06 19:55

Yeah. So I'm so excited about the place. We love it, yeah. But then I was like, what a new build, just like be peace of mind. You know, like of course you think like that, you know.

SPEAKER_05 20:06

Well, you're gonna do what you can control, which is if you get the place, you'll do the testing in the month and then you'll problem solve from there.

SPEAKER_06 20:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 20:14

If you need to problem solve or if it feels like you need to get out of it, right, right.

SPEAKER_06 20:18

And it's a 13-month lease, so it's not like we're buying it and we're stuck. Yeah. So there's that.

SPEAKER_03 20:24

Right.

SPEAKER_06 20:25

So I think I mean, we're still excited about it, right?

SPEAKER_03 20:29

I'm gonna make a documentary called My 13 Months of Lead. That's good.

SPEAKER_06 20:35

I know. I know, like, I'm like between my brother and me, it's like we could have a CEU on lead.

SPEAKER_05 20:41

Yeah. Like, I feel like I feel like this is also a big reveal because I didn't know your brother worried about stuff.

SPEAKER_06 20:47

He doesn't. That's why this is so alarming.

SPEAKER_05 20:50

I've never heard you mention one.

SPEAKER_06 20:52

It's not a worry.

SPEAKER_05 20:52

Uh every story involving your brother is you calling him about a worry and him saying don't worry about it. It's fine.

SPEAKER_06 20:59

It's yeah, I kind of half expected.

SPEAKER_05 21:01

So this is like an interesting twist twist to the story that uh he's saying that's all I think about.

SPEAKER_06 21:08

Yeah. Exactly. It was definitely unexpected, right?

SPEAKER_05 21:11

Yeah, but nobody would live anywhere. Not everything is new built construction. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 21:18

Well, exactly. You know, so yes, and further, there is a he was saying there's a little bit of lead on like basically every piece of fruit you eat. There's like lead and protein powder. There's like lead out there.

SPEAKER_05 21:30

I'm sure it's like plastic. It's like plastics, microplastics, and we're we're eating it.

SPEAKER_06 21:36

Totally. So it's sort of like what's your dosage? Like what like his girls clearly live in an old house. Are you microdosing lead or are you just like taking a gummy of lead? Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 21:48

So it's like I'm not trying to minimize it, it's just there there's gotta be a way people just wouldn't be able to live like in a home or building or anything like that.

SPEAKER_06 21:59

Right. Right. So I know.

SPEAKER_05 22:02

Not to say it's not the worry, it's not worrisome. It is.

SPEAKER_06 22:04

Right. It's like you could lose your mind thinking about this stuff. I'm sure some people truly do. It's everywhere. It's everywhere. Yeah. I remember I had a social psych professor in college who like thought all the world's like evil was like doodle lead poisoning. He thought like all ADHD was lead poisoning, like all this stuff. And I was like, this guy needs a therapist. Like, this can't be real. Who is this? It was a social psych professor at Washi when I was in college.

SPEAKER_05 22:29

And he somehow held his position? Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 22:31

I mean, he was ancient.

SPEAKER_05 22:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 22:32

He definitely had tenure. So it was like, I just kind of do his thing here.

SPEAKER_05 22:36

He can be a wing nut all he wants. Yeah. Because there were a lot of conspiracy theory.

SPEAKER_06 22:41

That's right. And I'm sure there's plenty of other people who are like not even talking about lead in social psych classes. But anyway.

SPEAKER_05 22:47

Wow. We're all getting it. Yeah. So wait, when would the lease start? June 1st. Oh, coming up.

SPEAKER_06 22:54

Yeah. And then um here isn't it up until July 1st.

SPEAKER_05 22:59

Yeah. So you wouldn't actually move if we if you're going forward with this until July.

SPEAKER_06 23:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 23:04

I think. All right.

SPEAKER_06 23:05

Well, we might like slowly move in June a bit. Got it. And pick some day. But like get it. Give you a nice transition time. Yeah, which is nice. And maybe if someone deep clean it, which I think helps with lead too. Like it. I'm in like every building I'm going to go into, I'm going to be like, you guys let a bubble.

Phone Bricks And Anxiety Spirals

SPEAKER_05 23:24

I'm wondering too. I want to bring in, I want to pull a thread from another episode. So you found out about the lead. It did you brick the phone so you wouldn't go searching for lead? For lead stuff.

SPEAKER_06 23:36

That's so funny. I didn't have to break the phone because I was on my laptop reading a lead disclosure. So then I immediately Googled. Immediately went to that down. So I did go down a bit of a rabbit hole. That's all right. I would have seen that. But that I honestly wouldn't even. I haven't even told you about the brick. I I brick my phone during the day, which is this app that blocks a bunch of apps. Really? During the day.

SPEAKER_01 23:58

I was gonna ask what you I didn't even understand what language is the brick. It's a little bit. When you said that, I'm I said, Oh, I I think I'm in young, but I don't know what that means.

SPEAKER_02 24:09

No, no.

SPEAKER_01 24:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 24:11

We talked about it in the previous episode of doing the black.

SPEAKER_06 24:15

Yeah, it's like I really need to brick, I mean, it's Instagram, TikTok, the social medias, and it's shopping sites. Shopping. I brick all of that. And I didn't brick like Zillow when we were looking for a place because I wanted to like know places that you could.

SPEAKER_05 24:32

Well, and you want to get updates and you want to, it's it goes up quick and it people take stuff quick. People take it, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 24:37

So that I left open. I will be so excited to brick that next. Brick it when we when we fully like sign beliefs. But yeah, like reading about lead, it's like it wouldn't be tempting. Well, I guess it is, but I was more like, so lead's an issue, obviously, in the world. But I need to figure out like what to what level I need to be concerned about in this place. So yeah, but yeah, the brick has been going well.

SPEAKER_05 25:05

I'm glad you're still with it and you still are on board with it. I love it. Great.

SPEAKER_06 25:09

I'm like thinking of more things to brick. And it will catch me with stuff that like you wouldn't even think. Like there was like a New York Times cooking thing, and I clicked on it. It's like, you cannot visit this website. Oh, rejected. I was like, I forgot that's part of my brick. That's great. Yeah. So it really would get me. And then I'll be like, oops. I even I opened it on the weekend. I unbricked my phone all weekend, and I was like, I'm gonna brick on the weekends. Like, I don't need to be scrolling my Instagram for an hour and a half straight. Like who needs to do that?

SPEAKER_04 25:40

Nice.

SPEAKER_06 25:41

I don't even think I told you that that I think I'm gonna brick on the weekend. You told me. Oh, I did, yeah. Because I tell you every thought that passes through my mind. Okay, good. Um, but anyway, enough about me. Um, but yeah, Lisa, tell us what's going on with you.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

I'm just hoping you get the place.

SPEAKER_06 26:00

Yeah, I know. I know. It sounds great. I think we're going through it.

SPEAKER_01 26:05

Yeah, yeah. I also think that I'll just say this in general. I I often question to what extent is we want to be educated, we want to know about things, you don't want to be naive. Yeah. But then there's a level at which it can become overstimulating and too much data and not helpful and increase anxiety. And it's a fine line of striking that balance.

SPEAKER_06 26:27

Yeah, it's not a perfect not at all.

SPEAKER_01 26:29

Yeah, yeah. But we're going to a concert tomorrow night. Uh sing Haley Williams.

SPEAKER_05 26:35

Oh. Yeah. Where is it? Aragon ballroom. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 26:38

Yeah. Aragon.

SPEAKER_05 26:39

Yeah. Is that an uptown?

SPEAKER_06 26:41

Yeah.

unknown 26:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 26:42

It's just down the street there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 26:43

I think I saw Death Cab there.

SPEAKER_06 26:44

Oh, really? Long time ago. Yeah. I will say, I think they kind of oversell that venue and it gets really hot in there, but we'll keep that in mind tomorrow for when we were. Nice. But yeah, it is a cool, very old, like classic Chicago venue.

SPEAKER_05 26:58

Is it like very steep kind of seating in the back?

SPEAKER_06 27:01

Or there it's not really seat. Well, is there seating in the balcony? Because it's a giant ballroom that's just like blank. Are you thinking of Riviera? Maybe I'm thinking of Riviera. Yeah, you're thinking of the rim. There's like, yeah, there's stuff. That's what I'm thinking of. The Riviera. Which is literally right next door, basically. Got it. Kitty Corner or whatever. Yeah. I prefer Aragon to the Riviera. How about you?

SPEAKER_03 27:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 27:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:24

They're my two least favorite venues. I remember.

SPEAKER_06 27:26

What we know you use are salt shed people. The salt shed. Every menu should be the salt shed. It is so perfectly like spaced out. It's like in the summer. It's like breezy, but like sunny. Is it outside? Outside during the summer, and then they have a really nice indoor venue too. Really good food. It's like the way they do the lines, the way they do the bathroom. It's heaven. But the Aragon's from when? From the 60s? Probably a lot of lead there. It's probably full of lead because the paint is chipping. No. There you go. I'm gonna look at all the chip paint and just go cross. I'm gonna be like how'd you like the show? I don't know. I was exploring every nook and cranny in this place. Oh my god. That's funny. It's so fun. We're so excited. Very excited.

Why Adult Birthdays Feel Complicated

SPEAKER_01 28:15

And and it's Josh's birthday on April 24th. So that was another birthday, which sort of leads us to the topic of night. It was a part of my impetus for thinking about it. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 28:32

Tell us the topic because it's kind of your brainchild.

SPEAKER_01 28:35

Well, the topic is about what our adult relationship is to our birthday and all the inner conflict it causes for people. And sometimes when a theme is presenting itself in my therapy sessions, which happens, you know, it kind of things go in waves, but there were a lot of people using our session to process their feelings around their birthday. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 29:01

So let's give our first thoughts.

SPEAKER_01 29:03

So I'll just start with this part of it. The idea that you want your birthday in some capacity to be special and celebratory, but I think there's this juxtaposition of it's just another day. And so when people will say, Well, it's just another day, and I heard myself saying, Well, yes, but is that how you feel? Is that really how you feel? Yeah. And the answer really for most people is that's what they think partially they should feel because they want to lower their expectations and feel like they're not disappointed, which maybe they chronically are on their birthday.

SPEAKER_06 29:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:43

People have a lot of strong attitudes about birthdays. You know, I love my birthday, I hate my birthday. I can't wait till it's the day after my birthday. Yeah. I'm disappointed. I was upset with my spouse and how they handled my birthday. So many people called on my birthday. Do I have to call them all back or text them all back? I didn't feel that anybody reached out and they forgot it's my birthday. So it's this desire to be visible and acknowledged in your on your birthday in a way that sort of hits the right note, but very difficulty in articulating to the people around you what that note is.

SPEAKER_02 30:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:17

Because I think sometimes people don't even know what their own ability to express their needs on their birthday, what that even is.

SPEAKER_06 30:27

Right.

SPEAKER_01 30:27

They haven't come to the conclusion. So people around them are always inadvertently disappointing them.

SPEAKER_06 30:33

Yeah. And then there's even too the aging piece. Sure. Like, sure, which is a whole nother layer. Yeah, I have definitely noticed a lot of the same in my practice. And even with myself, like this complex relationship with a birthday. And, you know, I remember like a client saying, you know, is it okay that this is what I did on my birthday? Sort of checking with me.

SPEAKER_04 31:02

Seeing if it's okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 31:04

Or is it okay that this is how my partner showed up on my birthday? I I don't get a ton in my practice of people who are like, whoa, about my birthday. Yeah. I don't get a lot of that. Maybe that personality type is less often in therapy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:21

Maybe. Maybe and maybe probably. Yeah, probably. And also I think, you know, when you're a child and it's your birthday.

unknown 31:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:30

And you're in school and it's your birthday. And so you get to maybe have cupcakes and everybody sings happy birthday to you, and you're the line leader.

SPEAKER_02 31:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:39

And all these things that happen that make that day feel special.

SPEAKER_02 31:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:43

I think it gets increasingly more complicated as we go through life and as we go through adulthood.

SPEAKER_04 31:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:49

Because people have a hard time figuring out in what way they want to be acknowledged.

SPEAKER_04 31:55

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:57

And then also saying, I don't care. But they all care. Everybody cares. Right. I think everybody who says they don't care really cares.

SPEAKER_06 32:04

I know.

SPEAKER_01 32:05

Oh, totally.

SPEAKER_06 32:06

I think that too. I think it's like totally one of those where it's like the opposite.

SPEAKER_05 32:12

I'm curious too if maybe some resistance to it is, and who knows, maybe I'm projecting this, but there's almost like a childlike. Like, let's celebrate my birthday.

SPEAKER_01 32:23

Like that it seems immature to want to celebrate your birthday.

SPEAKER_05 32:26

Not even immature, but just maybe, yeah, maybe there's some flavor of like I don't want to make a big deal out of it. Birthdays are for kids, or you know, that's kind of like more of a younger thing. I don't I have very warm feelings towards my birthday. I always have. I was never in school. My birthday was in the summer. July. And I loved not being in school. It's interesting too because some kids that I know, my kids' friends who have summer birthdays, really wish they would be in school because they want to be able to bring a treat.

SPEAKER_06 32:55

I liked that. Get their name announced.

SPEAKER_05 32:58

Get their name announced and things like that. And and that was never me. I was like, I get the good weather, we get to do like a slip and slide. Like I was so happy to have my birthday in the summer and always know I had a day off. Yeah. I was like, this is like the life. That is kind of nice. My my relationship with my birthday is really interesting because my oldest son is born on my birthday. And so we share a birthday now. And so it's it's great because all the attention which I want is paid towards him. It's like I got 30, however many years when he was born, I was 33. It's like great. It is like now it's like, you know, people obviously come up to me and still say happy birthday, but it's like we get to share that together, but it's all about him.

SPEAKER_01 33:42

And there's no, and there's no, I'm just curious.

SPEAKER_05 33:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:46

No part of you at all in that sharing. Because I know sometimes people say if they're born on Christmas, for example, they feel like um that they have a hard time with that. There's not not okay.

SPEAKER_05 34:00

I love that it's like all the attention on him. It's great. It's like a gift every year. That is the gift every year, right? That's beautiful. Yeah, it's like really cool.

SPEAKER_06 34:07

So I'd be so curious if I would feel that. Like, well, because it's like I I have a very mixed, like, you know, look at me, don't look at me, kind of on my birthday a little bit. And you know, like poor Josh really, really gets the brunt of it, and you handle it so well. I mean that. Don't brag. No, I I yeah, but I really do like even for my our first birthday of mine together. I felt like, oh wow, you did such a good job with my like psychosis around my birthday. And yeah, feeling like I like to be celebrated, but not too much. Yes, no. And I was saying, like, when I was young before my parents were divorced, like my my parents really did kind of go all out for my birthday. I would often have like a swimming birthday, but it was like an indoor pool somewhere and a swimming baby. Just kidding, my niece uses that term, swimming baby.

SPEAKER_03 35:10

She's a swimming baby, I know.

SPEAKER_06 35:12

Um, or like we, I remember like my friends and I all went to this cool, like sushi place and got this little like private room when my parents were like in the room next door while we were like doing that, and like stuff like that that was so fun, or like a dress up party or whatever. And I remember feeling like it felt really special. And then when my parents got divorced, that kind of like, and I already was getting older, but it's like it just changed a lot. Um I mean, honestly, maybe I'm misremembering it. Maybe it kind of changed before then, but it definitely felt different. I mean, obviously, because my parents weren't together like celebrating something for me together. Yeah, so that felt so different.

SPEAKER_01 35:57

Well, that's already different because now they're celebrating within two different like days.

Expectations, Disappointment, And Visibility

SPEAKER_06 36:03

Yeah. So you already get into the right. You have like two birthdays with parents. Yeah. So even that, like it's funny because a lot of times you'll think like, oh, to kind of like double the fun. And it's like it doesn't totally feel like that. It sort of feels like it's nothing when you kind of split it in half. Yeah. I hate to say that, but it's sort of I think when it's one day that feels really marked. Yeah. There's something to that. Yeah. But that's also can create the pain for so many people where it's like there's so much expectation for how to do it.

SPEAKER_05 36:40

That's part of it. That's gotta be part of it. Yeah. It's like I really gotta make this one day special somehow. It's like, why don't you make any day special? Yeah. You also didn't really have any part in being born. So it's like people are celebrating you for doing nothing. Yeah. Like you didn't do anything, right? You know, so there's also a level of wonderful.

SPEAKER_06 37:04

It's just you. It's just you, right. Yeah, you as you are.

SPEAKER_05 37:08

Sure. Absolutely. Yeah, but you could do that on any day. Right, right. You know, that's why that's my point, is you're you're you're choosing a day, yeah. Which certainly something happened on that day. You were born, but you could do what you wanted on any day.

SPEAKER_06 37:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 37:24

You know?

SPEAKER_06 37:24

I remember having a client who said, like, not a bunch of friends couldn't make it to the party. And it wasn't like a milestone birthday necessarily, but it was like, what does that say about who I am? Like that they didn't drop everything to show up.

SPEAKER_02 37:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 37:41

Yeah. It was interesting to process and look at, like, I'm not good enough, or I'm kind of like an auxiliary person in their life, not like a main friend. And you know, like that got into all these other areas and yeah, like shadows kind of yeah.

SPEAKER_05 37:59

Well, and I think birthday is also much like maybe New Year's. New Year's. People just start to reflect on the uh-huh year. It's a reflection period, too, where it's like, well, maybe taking some inventory on what did this last year look like. And not only am I getting a year older, but are there regrets, or are there things that I didn't do that I I told myself maybe I was gonna do?

SPEAKER_01 38:22

Yeah. Not where I want to be. Not where I want to be. Oh, yes. Not where I want to be.

SPEAKER_05 38:27

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 38:27

For whatever reason, right? And then it is a time of reflection. That's another factor that I think makes all these this tundra of emotion around birthdays.

SPEAKER_02 38:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:38

And then there's the whole difference between how you receive people doing things for you on your birthday and how you handle or feel about celebrating other people's birthdays.

SPEAKER_02 38:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:50

Which for some people they love both, and there's such a mixture of that. I know for me, for my kids' birthdays, I felt very passionately and strongly of making the day feel magical. That's the word I would use.

SPEAKER_02 39:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:08

And what did they do to deserve that besides be born? That's it. They were born. They were born. And they are precious to me and to a lot of people around them. So I feel like it's uh it's an opportunity to really express love and nurturing and creativity. And um I think I feel that not just about my kids, but birthdays in general. It's a love like for me, it's part of my love language. But I think when a person has their own journey where they don't have an easy time with that experience of the nurturing or the love, or they're not quite sure. There's there's a whole lot of people who I think are kind of inadvertently birthday sabotagers.

SPEAKER_06 39:54

Yeah. Totally.

SPEAKER_01 39:56

Every year it's the same, you know, story. Kind of creating this narrative around the birthday that you're it's not important, you're gonna be disappointed. And then whatever anybody does, you're seeking that out. I'm not saying that's everybody. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 40:12

But I think you I mean it's valid to also think about. I mean, it sounds like you're talking about like love languages a little bit, like how people receive.

SPEAKER_04 40:19

And yeah.

SPEAKER_05 40:21

Birthdays are generally typically a gift-giving type of event. And some people that doesn't really, you know, do it. That doesn't really do it for them. No, that's not their language. And so maybe there could also be a version of like, yeah, I that's what's expected, and I tell people no, and maybe they don't really know how to express what they want or what would be more meaningful or loving.

SPEAKER_02 40:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 40:41

In in the realm of a birthday. Yeah. Or at least that's something to explore, right? Maybe something else would be a bigger deal. Like that part of it's not the big deal, or and the gift, the gift given. It could be quality time.

SPEAKER_01 40:56

It could be, you know, we're talking novel loveliness. Or an experience, or an experience, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 41:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 41:02

You know, that's like that doesn't have to be with a lot of people, right? It could be a personal experience.

Childhood Roots And Birthday Scripts

SPEAKER_01 41:08

But I think that's part of the way in which you can have a successful experience on your birthday, is part of what sets you up to have it be successful is knowing what you want.

SPEAKER_02 41:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:21

Which a lot of people I think think they know, but aren't quite sure.

SPEAKER_06 41:25

Your birthday has so much pressure. It's so you're so vulnerable to not really knowing what you want.

SPEAKER_05 41:30

Yeah. I my 40th, you know, Sarah's like, Do you want to do anything? And I was like, the only thing I want to do on my 40th birthday is not make a decision.

SPEAKER_06 41:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 41:40

I was like, that would mean so much to me if people didn't have to ask me, like, what do you want to eat? Or what just everybody decide. Yeah. You all know me, you know what I like, and I just don't even like have to think about like making a decision. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 41:54

Like what was a process versus content? It was flawless.

SPEAKER_05 41:58

Like Sarah did she took the reins on it and it was a blast because it was like I didn't have to think about anything. Yeah. It was like they you're blindfolded. Pretty much. It was like they they came up with a menu, they could and it was all things that it was like, yeah, of course I love these things, right? You didn't need me to say like that's what I and it just was like it was great. It was so stress-free and just like I could just be in the day, yes, and just be there. It was really nice. Yeah, that's great. Which that was like the best gift of all. It was like, I don't have to think too hard, I don't have to like say, like, no, I don't I don't want it this way, or I don't want it's just like just do it.

SPEAKER_01 42:34

But you said something, John. You said I have very warm feelings about my birthday growing up, yeah, right. So I think that sets up Sarah and for tuning into you and being obviously tuned into what your needs are, and yeah, I could see that same storyline of someone saying exactly what you said, which is I don't want to make a decision, you make the decisions, and then every decision the person makes, the person says, Well, I didn't want that, right?

SPEAKER_06 43:03

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 43:04

100% you know, so you were a really good receiver, but I I can tell you it goes the other way an awful lot.

SPEAKER_06 43:14

Totally. I've seen that too, right? Yeah, I've done that. Just surprise me. Just surprise me. I've seen it like it was in the mirror. Oh my god. It's like I but I wouldn't.

SPEAKER_05 43:35

Do whatever you want, I'm gonna be happy with it. And then I'm like, why did you do that?

SPEAKER_06 43:39

Criticizing everything. But I think like my nieces will be talking about their birthday for you know months ahead of time. So excited. It's gonna be uh, you know, K pop demon hunters, it's gonna be blah blah blah. Theme. Yeah, theme. And then when it does come to pass, they are pretty happy with it. Like, you know, like they don't they have. Tons of expectation on it, and they're thrilled by the thrilled, which is kind of fun. Like, I guess they just don't have a lot of complexes yet and stuff. Like, right, you know, they haven't lived a ton of life, but yeah, it's like they'll be talking about it so much after, and this was the cake, and these were the balloons, and there was face paint, and like it's like the greatest day of their lives.

SPEAKER_05 44:23

Kids, kids have a great ability, not all kids, but like to focus on what happened versus what didn't happen.

SPEAKER_02 44:32

Correct.

SPEAKER_05 44:33

And and I think that somewhere along the line, myself included, we we lose that a little bit. There's always gonna be things that don't happen. They didn't get a certain gift, or s somebody didn't show up because their friend had a baseball game or whatever. Yeah. But you're right. Uh, in retrospect, at least with my kids and their friends and your nieces, like they do just kind of focus on what happened.

SPEAKER_01 44:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 44:55

And they and they're still the roof.

SPEAKER_01 44:57

Yeah. Children have that innocence that makes the birthday more likely to be appreciated. Yeah. There's just so many themes that I think are themes that come up in therapy that get acted out around potentially your whole birthday issue. Totally. It's like everything comes up there. A lot comes up, and it's every year.

unknown 45:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 45:18

It's every year. Whether you like it or not.

SPEAKER_06 45:22

I think there are other parts of the year sometimes someone might like suffer over that stuff, but like bury it a little. And I do find some of those clients, the birthday will finally bring it up for us to process. Right. Sorry, I'm like losing my voice a little.

SPEAKER_01 45:36

But I'm gonna just say I don't think that it is selfish at all to have the self-love to express how you might want to acknowledge anything in your life, not just your birthday, but I think it's part of loving yourself. And I think we have clearly we have trouble doing that. Yeah, we have a lot but much easier time loving other people than expressing and allowing ourselves to feel that.

SPEAKER_05 46:01

And I would have problems depending on the person hearing it and depending on what the request was. Like I'm even just thinking of like as my kids get older, if I have an idea of what I would like to do with them for their birthday, and they said I don't really want to do that, or or even if they're adults and they're like, you know what? Yeah, I'm just gonna celebrate alone this year. Like I'd be like, okay, can I still call you? Or you know, like so, even it's it's one thing to be able to say I send a card, can I do something? Yeah. Um, so I think it's definitely, yeah, like how do we express it, but also how do we receive it? And respect that maybe that is meaningful to right. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_06 46:38

This just brings up how like I told Josh sometimes going to my niece's birthdays is hard because they kind of are like get lost and they just want to hang with their friends when we're visiting, and I like one every second with them. And it's like painful. Like, I'm like, I'm with them for 48 hours, they don't care. Yeah, they're just with their cousins and their friends, which of course they should be. Definitely, but it's hard.

SPEAKER_05 46:59

I can't imagine your own kids, yeah, being like well, and I reflect on that a lot too when as I was becoming a teenager or whatever, and yeah, celebrate my birthday with my family, and then be like, all right, sweet, I'm gonna go hang out with my friends. I mean, I'm sure that was hurtful. Going to the real party where it was like, Well, can't we spend the day, you know, like together? Um, so that's gonna be tough for me to hear as a parent, you know. Totally. I was also, as we were talking about this, it didn't it's I think people's relationship with their birthday also like the day you were born, also is interesting, like the actual date, because you had mentioned Christmas, right? Or something like that, like being born. Sarah's birthday is November 4th, so it's always an election. Oh, and if you know anything, if you know anything about my wife, she takes politics very seriously. That's a stressful birthday time, super stressful, and one of her favorite birthdays was when Obama was elected. She was like one of the best, if not the best birthday. So her birthday is very tumultuous. There's a lot where it's like her birthday is coming up, but there's also always this feeling of what's coming, especially now.

SPEAKER_06 48:08

Yeah, with everything.

SPEAKER_05 48:10

So it's just an interesting date to be born on.

SPEAKER_06 48:13

Oh my god. I can't imagine having Trump elected on my birthday. Twice? Twice. Twice. It's horrendous. I remember thinking that was like a funeral. I remember feeling that the first time. But that's your birthday.

SPEAKER_05 48:25

So it's like there's that's complicated.

SPEAKER_01 48:27

It's really good for Sarah.

SPEAKER_05 48:29

Yeah, 100%. Wow. 100%. Good God. Yeah. And Shane was almost born on born on her birthday too. My youngest was almost six days apart from her. Wow. What was some rhythm there? October 29th. October 29th, okay. Yeah. So very we thought it was gonna happen. Wes was born of mine, and we were like, this is gonna be wild. Like he's gonna be Oh my gosh. I know it was crazy.

SPEAKER_06 48:52

Wow. My brother, my uncle, and my cousin-law have the same birthday. Wild. What day? Yeah, September 27th.

SPEAKER_05 48:57

Oh, that's close to my dad's birthday.

SPEAKER_06 49:00

September 27th. Yeah, it is funny to like you text all three of them. Everybody always, you know, kind of groups them all together.

SPEAKER_05 49:05

My uncle and my brother have the same birthday too. Wow. Right around.

SPEAKER_06 49:09

Yeah, there's like people have the same birthday. There's like some weird algorithm.

SPEAKER_05 49:12

And my brother used to always say growing up that he got less presents than me because his birthday was December 18th.

SPEAKER_06 49:18

Oh, I mean Christmas birthday.

SPEAKER_05 49:20

So he was always like, you know, because you're like literally the furthest away in July from Christmas, he was like, You get more presents.

SPEAKER_01 49:29

Yes, that that comes up a lot.

SPEAKER_05 49:31

And I was like, whatever. Don't blink. I didn't have anything to do with it. As I already mentioned, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 49:37

Josh and I have had so many discussions about what's actually like coming up. But since your birthday's coming up, now I'm realizing tell us how you feel about your birthday coming. Do you feel okay saying?

SPEAKER_03 49:50

Yeah, yeah. I I I don't have strong feelings about it this year. They might come up and surprise me, sneak attack.

SPEAKER_04 49:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 49:57

So we may have to do a debrief. But I think I'm looking forward to the weekend. I think we've planned a weekend. I'm looking forward to.

SPEAKER_04 50:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:04

It's gonna be busy.

SPEAKER_06 50:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:06

It's gonna be pretty social.

SPEAKER_06 50:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:09

I've been like taking my downtime in the lead up to the birthday, you know, making my clips.

SPEAKER_06 50:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:14

And I think we got a lot of we're going out Friday night. My mom's in town. Shout out.

SPEAKER_06 50:19

Thursday we're going out with your mom. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:20

Sleepover with my mom.

SPEAKER_06 50:22

Sleep over three nights ago.

SPEAKER_03 50:23

Seeing Haley Williams, getting dinner, getting lit up. And Saturday night we're seeing a concert with my friend Alex Morelli.

SPEAKER_06 50:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:33

What better way to spend my birthday? That's the day after my birthday. Yeah. But that's this year, Josh. Sunday night we're going out with your mom. Yeah, we're going to my mom's. Oh, you want me to like be more reflective?

SPEAKER_01 50:44

No, I'm just saying that's this year, and I'm so happy as your mom to hear that you're in a good headspace about your birthday. But you've also said to me, pre-Kelly, if I may share.

SPEAKER_02 50:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:54

That um I kind of ruined your birthday for you indefinitely. Do you remember saying that to me?

SPEAKER_03 51:00

Because you used to make it so special. Exactly. Oh.

SPEAKER_01 51:04

And right. So this is like really making my heart happy. Yeah. Because you said, um, I mean, you do you remember this conversation? It wasn't that long ago. Okay. Do you want to share?

SPEAKER_03 51:18

Yeah, I think I said you ruined my birthday for me. Next question. It was so special. Because I think I think you used to make it so overwhelming. Like, like, like you do, like, oh, I'm five years old. It's a jungle birthday. It's a jungle out here. And you'd put up, I remember you'd put up like a streamer with like what do you call it? Like blue um waterfall. Leslie made a water.

SPEAKER_01 51:46

We had like that school. We had very elaborate declarations. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 51:51

What do you call that?

SPEAKER_01 51:52

And a streamer. Cellophane. Streamers. Cellophane. No, we we met Leslie made like a waterfall. Yeah. My my what my sister. But your birthdays were very um they we transformed. Yeah. We transformed the house to match the theme. That's great.

SPEAKER_05 52:12

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 52:13

And this stems from my birthday when I would wake up, and my dad would you'd wake up and you'd go down in the morning, and he would hand draw a mural of like let's say I was having Peter Pan, and it would be a hand-draw mural across the whole basement with balloons, and you'd walk in and and he would be up like all night working on the project.

SPEAKER_06 52:35

And you'd go to your dad up all night.

SPEAKER_01 52:38

All night. Can you imagine? And you'd walk in and it was transformed. So I mean, some of the roots of how we feel about our birthday or how we feel about our children's birthday or others' birthdays do like everything stem from what's our roots of how it was established for us in childhood. So then Josh, so I have struggled with that when you've said that to me because clearly the goal was to make it magical. And then he said, You kind of ruined it for me as an adult, and you're an adult well much longer than a child and adolescent. So I'm really happy or excited about your birthday with Kelly this year.

SPEAKER_03 53:19

Yeah. No, it's and it's like not even I wouldn't Shout out Kelly. Shout out Kelly. I'm like, oh God. I think I think I'm content in my life, and I'm trying to enter my birthday as a blank, as an empty vessel. It's a great way to do it. Not with too many expectations, but not like, oh, I'm gonna hate the day. Yeah. And we'll just see what it brings. And I think, I think, I feel like this happened maybe my last birthday, or I could see this happening, even though I'm saying like I'm gonna try not to envision it. Is like, I don't know, people will send me like birthday playlists because I always send someone a birthday playlist, and I'm like, oh, that's nice. Like, anyway. Is that what you're doing?

SPEAKER_06 53:57

Are you manifesting that?

SPEAKER_03 53:58

Do you want to? It's like my whole point was like, I feel like I don't want to talk about it, and then I'm like starting to talk about the ways it could surprise me, which is defeating the purpose.

SPEAKER_06 54:06

Oh, of being surprised.

SPEAKER_03 54:08

So I should just leave it hanging, like, and we'll see what happens.

SPEAKER_06 54:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:11

And I'm like, and we'll see what happens. Maybe it could be this. And then I'm like, but then I'm like setting this expectation. It's like if anyone wants to make me a birthday playlist, this episode will air after my birthday. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:22

Last year we toured your wedding venue on your birthday.

SPEAKER_03 54:25

Oh, that's fun. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:26

And and that was that the same night we went to dinner and you guys got lost in the underworld.

SPEAKER_05 54:32

Oh man, I remember that.

SPEAKER_01 54:33

Wasn't that Kelly?

SPEAKER_06 54:34

Oh my god, it was your birthday. We got lost at Lower Whacker.

SPEAKER_01 54:38

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 54:39

That was a dream. That was you're going you're going nowhere but up from there.

SPEAKER_01 54:44

Oh my goodness. I think that was last year on his birthday. We toured the facility. Yes. Bridgeport.

SPEAKER_06 54:50

Bridgeport.

SPEAKER_01 54:51

And then we had dinner, and you guys, like Alex and Andre, had to come rescue you. And and oh my god, yes. You were trapped.

SPEAKER_06 54:59

That was nuts. Yeah. And it was your birthday. I think we did remark on like it's your birthday. Yeah. Stuck down here. But it's so special. And then a guy came up with these like whole foods bags. He's like, How the hell do you get out of here? We were like, we're stuck. And he was like, What? And then I don't know what he did.

SPEAKER_05 55:16

He's probably still there. But that story's gonna live forever.

SPEAKER_06 55:20

Forever. It's true.

SPEAKER_05 55:20

Which is memorable. Not to say that's how you wanted it. Again, the organic piece of it. Yeah. Where in retrospect, not that it was enjoyable in the moment, but but yeah, it's like epic in a way. There's almost like an yeah, there's something about that birthday that's oh my god, to be stuck.

Aging, Gratitude, And Milestone Feelings

SPEAKER_06 55:36

Yeah. Yeah. Remember when that happened. Remember that crazy thing. Well, I mean, I this year on my birthday, we went to dinner. And I got it up pentectomy, yeah. Right. So, yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_01 55:49

And I and my response was on her birthday. Yeah. Not as crazy. But I because I have a bit of birthday. What's the word I have? I think it's it's it's probably a little too hyped for me.

SPEAKER_06 56:03

Yeah, like it should be. Yeah, and to me, it's like we actually did have such a lovely day that was only just like capped off by the appendicitis. But it was funny, like you know, at the hospital, they're looking at your birthday, they're feeling stuff out, and like everyone was like, It's your birthday. I was like, Yeah, they're like, Happy birthday. I'm like, yeah, been in this hospital for like five hours now. But yeah, whatever. We got through it. And honestly, it was so nice to be in that environment with you. Like you were so calming and comforting to me. Josh was just like, you know, making me laugh the entire time. Like I was laughing sore. And it kind of hurts to laugh a little bit when you have that going on. But got it. I was loving it. I was like, this is so different to be in like an environment, a scary situation like this with you. You know, because we'd never done that. And it was so it was so comforting in a weird way. Yeah, it was an unexpected, like warm feeling on my birthday to have you there. It freaked me out a little.

SPEAKER_03 57:06

The aftermath was kind of hard, but when I abandoned you to go to South by Southwest. But that was after your birthday.

SPEAKER_06 57:12

And even just the recovery, the physical recovery, the physical recovery, the physical and physical recovery. The physical recovery. We don't even know.

SPEAKER_05 57:19

I haven't even gotten that bill yet, but whatever. But what a like, you know, we've already talked about it, how people show up for you on your birthday. And so it's it's like, man, yeah, you couldn't ask for somebody showing up for you more than your partner in it.

SPEAKER_06 57:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 57:37

In the hospital.

SPEAKER_06 57:38

And yeah, yeah. And that's exactly what I need is someone there, but not someone like freaking out of making it. Yeah. Just someone with me. Just there with you. I'm not alone.

SPEAKER_01 57:49

Yeah. Well, I think that's really what isn't that what most people to a large extent as human beings go, you know, attachment theory. We all at some level just want to be connected to someone and not feel alone. And I think that whole want to be connected and not feel alone is an issue for all of us in life on New Year's or all these things we're talking about. I just think it really comes up heavily on the birthday. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 58:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:22

And you could be in a relationship and feel alone.

SPEAKER_04 58:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:25

Yep.

SPEAKER_06 58:26

Or you could be in like a room full of people celebrating your birthday and feel alone, or like we said, be noticing who isn't there. Yeah. Which usually, like a lot of times, I'll take some version of a kind of trauma lens with that, where it's like, where's sort of the part that really still feels pretty traumatized by something in the past? Where like you're in this room full of people who love you and you can't feel it. Like there's there's a reason. You know, like that's okay. Like, first of all, that's okay. You know, you don't have to feel comfortable in this, or something wrong with you. And looking at like maybe where there is some like rejection or some, yeah, like attachment rupture.

SPEAKER_01 59:13

I think the secret sauce in general is really to lean into what is as opposed to what isn't, right? With gratitude. So when I because this year I turned a big number, 65. Woo-hoo! Okay, now I don't feel 65. Yeah. Snaps. Shout out shout out. Yeah. I don't feel 65, whatever that means, yeah, at all. Um, but the reality is it's a big number. I I I was getting all these things in the mail for like Medicare. Oh, right. Like Medicare, that's for old people. Right. Yeah. I mean, that's my association. And it's very, it was it's sobering. Yeah. And I have a lot of friends that are plus or minus, you know, my age, and they were all wanting to process with me. You know, well, are you depressed? How I'm having a hard time. How are you, you know? And I said, listen, this is what I'm choosing to do. I just want to be grateful. I said there's a lot of people who aren't lucky enough to be living on this planet for 65 years. Yeah. But it's very easy to get caught up in your mortality. It's very easy to get caught up in the passage of time. I'm not saying that I didn't have any of those feelings.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:30

But it's a lot of mindfulness around what is what is happening right here.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:38

That is good and makes your life feel fulfilled. Yeah. Even in the absence of things that aren't exactly where you'd want the alignment to be.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:47

Or the person who's not there.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:49

Right. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:50

That's a wise mind. Definitely a wise mind.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:52

And I think about this with aging a lot because like I'm 37 in the pregnancy fertility conversations, like already at 37, they say words like perimenopause. Like they say stuff like that. And you're like, me? You know, you're like, I'm a child. Like, what are you talking about? No, they say advanced maternal age now, usually. Okay. I was like, Yeah, which they've said.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:14

I think when we were having kids, that's what I think.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:17

What is the age that they say now? 35, over 35. Yeah. Which these days, a lot of women are having kids over 35.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:24

But it's just a wild term.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:25

I'm glad they prevamped it. Yeah, they now say, but yeah, and my gynecologist liberally uses, you know, your advanced maternal age. And I'm like, yeah, I guess so. But, or like how I went to the eye doctor and I had these little floaters, and I was like, you know, should we be worried about these? And she's like, nope, normal aging. And I was like, aging? Like she was like, it's kind of like how your skin wrinkles. I was like, my eyes wrinkle essentially, like, you know, they like fold over. I was like, and you know, like I have a bunch of doctors who like don't sugarcoat anything. Like the eye doctor is just like, yeah, you're aging. You're old. Congrats. You know, it's like well, welcome to bifocals. Okay, yeah, totally. But yeah, so it is, it's interesting. Like, if I really like the gratitude for me comes from like, look at your actual everyday life experience. Like, do you feel a lot of like joy? Are there things where you genuinely appreciate? It's like endlessly, you know. I what do you think? Like, did you prefer your 20s to your 30s?

SPEAKER_03 1:02:31

No, absolutely not.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:33

But when I was seven, big deal.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:38

You preferred your sevens.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:40

My childhood was nice.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:42

That's why I'm doing all these goosebumps clips.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:44

Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:46

Trying to like seep.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:47

The nostalgia.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:48

Yeah, but with my new wife.

unknown 1:02:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:52

Totally. Because then you got rid of that old one.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:55

Yeah. She was our L star.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:57

Yeah, she's in the attic.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:58

Yeah. She's under the bed. Yeah. That's well, that's where you are, John. Yeah, that's true. Good point. Good point. You're canoodling with my old wife. Which you don't know.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:10

Yeah, this is so interesting. So yeah, I wonder like if anyone listening like has a complex relationship with their birthday. I mean, it can be a nice like on-ramp, I you know, to some self-reflection. Like, what's really coming up? How do I feel about myself? What do I believe about myself in this experience? Like, what's really coming up? Being non-judgmental about that. I mean, if you have therapists getting in there, exploring.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:39

I think there's these societal expectations that set us up to feel like it's less than it hits below the mark.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:49

And you know, it's really it can be simple, but society does give us a lot of expectations around ideas.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:58

Yeah, and definitely scripts. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:00

Yeah. Yeah. And Josh, you're doing great, not expecting too much this week.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:06

Just be open and love it. I'm open to nothing.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:10

I did have like when you did such a great job with my birthday. Of course, there is a little part of me that's like, well, we better step it up. Better make sure he has a great time. Like, I hate that I go there, but a part of me does go there. That's okay. I probably even confess that to you.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:27

Just now.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:28

Like, well, now, but I think even on my birthday.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:31

Oh.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:32

I was like, what if it's not as good?

SPEAKER_03 1:04:34

It's okay. It can be disappointing.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:38

Well, because here's the thing with that playlist. I made you a playlist the first birthday we were together, and I feel like it wasn't that good.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:45

I feel like there are songs off of it I'm still playing. Really? Well, that's reinforcement count.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:51

Wasn't there?

SPEAKER_03 1:04:52

I feel like it got me into the 1975.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:55

Okay. Well, there you go.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:56

I'm trying to think of what else was on it. I there was a Mariah Carey song I was like.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:00

It was like a pretty eclectic mix.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:02

Mariah Carey.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:03

Yeah, there was a Mariah Mariah Carey. Maybe Shake It Off. Taylor Swift?

SPEAKER_05 1:05:08

No, Mariah Carey has before Taylor Swift. I didn't know she was. Life existed before Taylor Swift. Right, right. Yes. Right.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:15

Um, I think fantasy.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:17

Oh, fantasy.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:18

Wayback machine. Yeah, yeah. Like that.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:20

Yeah, it was an old one. Um, but yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:23

I was so tickled that you made me one though. Right.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:26

You know, I I'm gonna be honest, I I didn't make you one this year.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:30

That's fine. I don't I don't need I don't need people to make me one. I think I enjoy making people birthday playlists so much, and it's not necessarily what I want in return. I just love making playlists so much. And I love making playlists and curating for the people.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:45

Yeah, you're gonna do it.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:46

Well, it's your thing. It's your thing. It's my thing. I don't it's not it doesn't mean it's everyone's thing, right? I mean, that's cool, that's fair.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:55

Yeah, yeah. People do stuff for me, I don't do for them. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:03

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:04

Check. I love.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:06

You're gonna have a great birthday.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:07

Like if someone bakes me a cake, I'm like, oh, I would never bake someone a cake. I'm a bad friend. Any sleep. You're gonna have a great birthday.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:13

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:14

You're gonna lose sleep because I'm gonna keep you up all night. We're gonna be on the phone all day. We're gonna be talking on the phone. We're both gonna be in the bath. It's 11:59. It's almost your birthday.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:23

I can't wait.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:24

I'll be watching. It's gonna be great. Oh my god.

unknown 1:06:26

I love it.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:27

Okay, well, maybe we'll move into our how wise is it segment.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:31

Yes. Today we're gonna discuss how wise is it to stray from your go-to order.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:38

Or maybe just like try other things on a menu when you know something that you like is right there, and you're like, you know what, that's the sure thing. I'm just gonna go for the sure thing.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:49

I don't know. What do you all think? How wise is it to stray?

SPEAKER_06 1:06:55

I'm a I'm a go-to order. Are you a little bit? Coffee, food, all definitely for coffee for sure.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:03

Yeah, I can't stray off the path for coffee.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:06

I mean, people get a different coffee every single time. I mean, that's wild.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:11

I would never do that.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:12

It's two every day, right? I think that's very experimental of them.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:17

Yeah, maybe like once a month, try something new off the coffee.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:21

Or it's like if you have two things you rotate or three things even. Something new every time. I mean, Josh, you change it up sometimes, but you get a lot of cold brew.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:31

Yeah, I get a lot of cold brew. Nice. Yeah. I I'll che I think it's a dialectic, right? Change it up sometimes, get the same thing sometimes. Yeah. That's like a boring answer, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:45

That's but that's probably the most that's the that's a very moderate answer.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:51

But when we do yes, we do yes no, you gotta do a yes-no. I'd say yes, it's wise to mix it up. And then after having mixed it up, it's like, well, maybe I'm gonna go back to my thing. But you but but mix it up. Try mix it up.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:06

You gotta try new things. But I think there's certain things though, you just stay in your lane. Coffee for me is when I stay in my lane. Pizza is another thing where which my game's off now because of the celiac, but it was like, no, I I know what I like on a pizza. I'm not gonna veer off the beaten path, you know. Well, it was usually like mushroom onions sausage or mushroom onions pepperoni. Um wow, delicious. Right. So it's like buy beer from this.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:35

It's like mushroom onion pepperoni sounds incredible, right?

SPEAKER_05 1:08:38

And then people are like, well, pineapple, it's like don't talk to me. Like, we're not putting and I love pineapple, we're not putting that on a pizza. Yeah, so I think there's certain things where I won't stray from where it's like that's kind of yeah, that's what I'm looking for. Kind of want that.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:51

Right.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:51

And then maybe there's other things that I'm a little bit more open to.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:54

Yeah. At like a trendier point.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:57

But maybe that's too rigid. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:59

Yeah, Lisa, what do you think? I like wannabe experiment. I'm a wannabe. Mix it up, but I'm a go to the same old, same old. Yeah. I do think it's wise to expand our horizons theoretically, but then I don't like having buyer's remorse, so to speak. You know, so I could get today. We're at sweet, this is why it came up, but we were at sweet greens, and I said, Oh, I always get the harvest bowl. I know I love the harvest bowl, but there's the Asian chicken bowl. It sounds really good. Yeah. And I sat and debated because it really did look good, but that I said, But the dressing could be too spicy for me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:38

You talked yourself out of it?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:39

I did.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:39

So you got the harvest bowl.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:41

Yeah, I went with the same old, same old. That harvest bowl. So classic.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:44

I know it's a but you know it's comfort, you know what you're gonna get. It's yeah, that there is a huge pull to go with what you know.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:52

Yeah, there is a huge pull to go with the harvest bowl because I used to get it when we worked together. Yeah, people would get it. The order would be like six harvest bowls and one other thing. It was like everybody got the harvest. You probably did, probably, because you told me to. It's a great item, but I hear what you're saying. Like, I feel that too, where it's like if I know, especially if it's a dish at a place that's really good, to go to that place and in the spirit of like variety, not order the thing I know is so good.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:22

But sometimes the thing you try that's new can become the thing that you go to.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:28

Of course. Absolutely. So if you don't try it, you don't know it could be or it could be horrendous and you're kicking yourself and not getting that harvest.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:36

That's the problem. I think I'm too risk averse. Yeah, so I go for this. I like to go for the sure thing.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:42

Yeah. Well, you gotta build it in then, maybe it's gotta be not you, but maybe that's no, I think I do a challenge. Every once in a while, you gotta challenge yourself to be to be.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:53

I think I do, especially when I dine with you guys.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:55

Yeah, yeah, we'll try a lot of different stuff when it comes to like small plates and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:00

It's a lot easier when it's also you could take a bite because it's an appetizer, as opposed to your whole thing, and then you're hungry.

unknown 1:11:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:09

100%.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:11

And you want to make sure you're full before the podcast, you know? Yeah, yeah. Yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:16

Yeah, because you don't want to what, like order something new and then you're you're like, oh man, I'm stuck with this, and I can't pull off other people's plates.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:23

Oh my god, I just did that somewhere. Because right as you described it like that, like, I'm stuck with this. What what did I have where I was like, This is it? What did I do? What did I do? I ordered something horrible.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:34

And Josh is like, that's your problem.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:36

That sounds like a you problem because I think I ate it. Did you?

SPEAKER_03 1:11:42

Wait, what was it the crisp witch? That's very oh you ate her, you took her whole dish from her, and that was really and plus mine did.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:53

Now the crisp witch was a long time ago, but I didn't like it. And I wanted you to trade with me, and you didn't, which is good for you. I mean, I'll just think that's good for you. No, you got that Ruben-esque, and I was like Wait, a Ruben sandwich? It's like a take on a Ruben. Oh, I love a Ruben side. It was so good for you. You definitely can't go wrong with a Ruben.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:13

Don't stray from that.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:14

You know, though, it's like, this is the issue with this sandwich. Josh goes, what does it taste like? I was like, pizza. It kind of tastes like pizza, but it's like some places do this with sandwiches where it's like too acidic. It's like there's a bunch of tomatoes, a little bit of cheese, and then like mustard, where you're like, this should have been mayo. It would have softened the acidity a little bit. Instead, you're like, whoa, this really intense grainy mustard, and all these tomatoes that were like roasted, so they were even more acidic. It was like hurting my mouth to eat it.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:48

You know what the strongest flavor in that whole equation, there's a bunch of crumpled up uh sour cream and cheddar ruffles in the sandwich.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:57

That's what you're taking. It's kind of hidden.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:59

Yeah. Hidden in the sandwich. Oh, yeah. I'm saying that's what turned you off.

unknown 1:13:06

Right.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:06

So it's like, but there was something else recently where we ate out, and I was like, what did I do? Here's the other thing. This is this is a bit of a tangent. Josh and I on Friday night, we were gonna make something that we had like not made during the week, kind of like a healthy weeknight meal. And both of us were like, We're not eating that. Like it's Friday, it's like we can't do it. So we went down to Hop Leaf, and I was like, here's what I'm gonna do. I'll get a burger, but I'm getting it with the salad, not with the fries, because whatever. I was having a day where I just was like, I we had had fries maybe earlier in the week. It's totally fine to have fries, obviously. But I was sort of like, whatever, I'm just gonna like go a little later on this. So Josh ordered that for me. Bring me, they bring me a burger and fries. I'm like, I tried, like, you know, like I and I felt bad. They were so busy, it's like you don't really want to send it back. And you know, it's about it was about 4,000 fries as well. It was like that. If you've been hop leaving, I have.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:09

They used to have a good Ruben there. I mean, I haven't been there in a long time.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:11

Oh, they do still have it, yes. And delish. Their food is great, but yeah, I was like, oh boy, you know, that is a dilemma too. Do you send it back if if you don't get what you wanted? I usually do.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:23

I usually say something if it's kindly what you wanted. Yeah, kind, definitely kindly. I should have just said something. Definitely kindly.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:30

I really get uncomfortable when people send it back unkindly.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:33

Yes, oh yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:36

Totally. Yeah, I also did yell at someone in there accidentally. This guy was like, are these two seats next to you free? And I was like, I don't know. Those two ladies were sitting here and they're like up at the bar. I don't know. Then he turns around and we were leaving. So I was gonna tell him that we were leaving, and I go, Hey, hey, he turns around. He's like, like I screamed at him essentially to help him out and tell him these are gonna be open. I was like, Why are you but I like yelled in this way where I was like, What came over me? Like, why did I do that? His face was so horrified. He was like, and I'm like, why I looked at Josh and I was like, Why did I do that?

SPEAKER_03 1:15:13

Maybe it was because the two women yelled at us when we sat down. Yeah. So it was like a pay and forward.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:17

Oh, it was a loud, crazy place.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:19

So yeah. I think they said the same thing to us when we were sitting down.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:22

Yeah, kind of like, hey, hey. Isn't it funny? And when someone like yells like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:29

That's and I bet then those two men did it to the people who came after them. Yeah. And to each generation.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:35

It was a chain. But yeah. But yeah, I okay, so is it wise? No. So to always order the same thing is not wise.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:48

No. No. I think we're all saying it's wise. I think we're saying it's wise to give yourself opportunities for change.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:56

Yeah. So hard. Flexibility.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:59

But we tend to do what's familiar. Oh, yeah. That's like a metaphor for so many things, not just food. Yeah, like sage.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:07

I just feel like I'm not gonna be open to my coffee drink. That's just an idea. Yeah, coffee really is on another plane.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:14

Coffee and even breakfast. A little bit.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:18

I'm going to be rich.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:20

We don't have to do it.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:21

We have it on record. I'm not doing it.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:23

Well, I don't think it's I think we're all allowed to have our staples. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:29

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:30

Yeah, staples and some flexibility around with some flexibility around some aspects of eating experiences.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:38

Yes. Would you ever have like a weekend coffee that's different? Maybe. Maybe.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:44

Yeah, with your after my original or after my like morning. My second drink of the day. Yes, probably. Yeah. So I'll be open to that, maybe. Pizza! I can I can change it up with pizza pizza. I can definitely change it up with pizza because pizza is like even bad pizza I'll enjoy, probably.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:02

Actually, I mean bad pizza can be pretty bad. Like people have that saying where they're like, oh, pizza, it's pizza or fried chicken, it's always good. And I'm like, I don't know that that's true.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:11

Yeah, I mean, I think the idea there is of course, not every single piece of pizza you're gonna eat is good, but yeah, like it's St. Louis pizza is you can probably find a decent slice somewhere.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:21

Yeah. You know, a lot of pizzas.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:23

Oh, you bring up St. Louis. I know more about St. Louis pizza from you than you ever had St.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:28

Louis pizza.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:30

This is gonna open up a you know, put a brick on this conversation. I'm gonna lose a little bit. We'll bring it up later.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:36

Yeah. Um they have a place there that serves deep dish, and they're they take pride in this type of cheese that they put on St. Louis pizza. They have shirts that have like a circle and a line through it. Like, we do not use that cheese because it's so bad. The first time I tried this cheese, I thought someone had baked tin foil into the lasagna I was having. I was like, this is wrong. This is wrong. And they're like, no, that's Pro Val cheese. That's how that tastes. Something's wrong. I was like, what is going on? Like, where's the hidden camera? Like, I can't eat this. Yeah. And then people were like, This is your first time having St. Louis cheese. And it's not really anywhere else. I'll pass. Yeah. And they have a cracker crust.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:15

I don't mind it. I like a cracker crust. I like a really thin crust pizza. I don't know if you'll like this. It's like I'm not gonna like that because we've described the other components of it.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:24

Yeah, because I've had really thin pizza and loved that. That's great. This is different.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:29

Yeah. Anyway, I just let us know. They're gonna veer off, they're gonna challenge themselves, yeah, try something and let us know what happens.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:37

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:39

That we'll aspire to all do that this this week. Yeah, be flexible. Try something new, be flexible.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:46

I'm gonna do it.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:47

I'll do it too. I'll do it too.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:50

I'll also do it. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:54

Okay, thank you so much, everyone, for joining us.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:56

Thanks for having me, guys. Yes, thank you so much. It was great.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:01

It was so fun. It was so fun. It was a great topic. You're in the Wiseman Hall of Fame.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:05

Oh, yeah. So if people want to reach out to you, Lisa, where can they find you?

SPEAKER_00 1:19:13

They can't.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:15

I'm hidden. Give us your home address.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:19

I really have no, it's like they can, um I really can't. I don't, I don't even have my right address on this. Do you have a website for your practice? I don't have a website. I really have I'm a little bit of a dinosaur. I it's the truth. I when I said they can. I know I was laughing, but um, they can feel free to call my my my office phone number. Yeah. 2489324325.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:46

Okay, perfect.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:47

And but I don't have uh uh website, and I luckily have survived all these years without it.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:53

So that's a testament to the work you do. Totally. Totally.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:58

And where can people find you, John?

SPEAKER_05 1:19:59

People can find me at butzbutz.jonathan at gmail.com.

SPEAKER_06 1:20:04

And if you want to contact me, you can find me at kkpsychsotherapy.com. Um, yeah, if you have questions about the pod, want to work with me.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:16

Comments, comments, criticisms, criticisms. Maybe not criticisms, but gentle criticism. Gentle Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:20:22

Um gentleness. You could reach me, you can send an agree there. And Josh, I'll be.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:27

You can find me at joshbayerfilms.com. Bayer is in the aspirin. Uh, I will edit things for you, and also I have my mom's contact info. So if you want to get in touch with me, I can get you in touch with her.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:42

Perfect. Perfect. Thank you, blanket forts for the music. Yeah, I love it.

SPEAKER_06 1:20:48

Yeah, thank you so much, everyone. We will talk to you next time. Next time bye.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:53

Bye.

SPEAKER_06 1:20:54

The Wisemind Happy Hour podcast is for entertainment purposes only, not to be treated as medical advice. If you are struggling with your mental health, please seek medical attention or counseling.