MANIFESTATION w/ Megan Fojo

Can I get that "woo woo?" Special guest Megan Fojo joins us for a deep dive into the wise world of manifestation. 

Transcript

Welcome And Personal Catch Up

SPEAKER_02 0:05

Welcome to the Wise Mind Happy Hour. I'm Katley.

SPEAKER_03 0:08

And I'm John.

SPEAKER_02 0:09

Welcome everyone.

SPEAKER_03 0:11

We're back. We have a guest today, so very exciting.

SPEAKER_02 0:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 0:14

We're slaying it with guests.

SPEAKER_02 0:16

We're slaying it with guests.

SPEAKER_03 0:17

It's great.

SPEAKER_02 0:18

Yes, we have a guest today, which we'll get to after our intro. We're so excited. Very excited. We're on the edge of our seat. But tell us before that, tell us what's new with you. What's going on?

SPEAKER_03 0:30

Well, what's new is is it really what's new, or you just want to know about Miss Congenia? We just want to know about Miss Congeniality. I went to I purchased tickets. I think I mentioned this. Uh whether it was on air or not, I don't remember. Uh, this was definitely something I manifested for myself because it was solely for me.

SPEAKER_02 0:48

Wow, I love that.

SPEAKER_03 0:49

And I brought my family. So I guess it wasn't solely for me.

SPEAKER_02 0:52

Nice.

SPEAKER_03 0:52

Alamo Draft House had a uh watch party for Miss Congeniality. It's still waiting for the show. It's a one time showing of the movie.

SPEAKER_02 1:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:04

And it was on specifically April 25th, which, if you know the movie, you know that one of the contestants, when asked what is your idea of a perfect date. Yeah. Her answer is April 25th. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:18

Not too warm.

SPEAKER_03 1:19

Yeah, too warm. Um, so they specifically had an April 25th fellow on a weekend. So we get there, and there's a table that has like glow necklaces, glow bracelets. A woman is in a crown with a dress on, with a sash. You could fill out the state of Illinois, you could pin it on yourself. There was a self-defense keychain toy that we all got, which was great. And then um, yeah, we we went in there and the woman came in and introed the movie, and she was saying how you know it's one of her favorites. Um, so feel free if you know any of the any of the lines, shout them out. Oh my gosh. And then she uh she gave the crown to somebody. So she kind of asked the crowd for what do you think is the best way to like defend yourself against somebody? Oh wow, and so people kind of went around and and said it. And the woman the woman who won said, throw acid on them. Oh my god, which was the everybody was like, What kind of intense, but that ended up winning.

SPEAKER_02 2:30

So you get the crown and yeah, I guess you'd call that, I guess that's self-defense. I guess, yeah, I guess where are you getting that?

SPEAKER_03 2:37

But there was a lot of I don't know, but there was a lot of groin punches, ball punches, which that's what they say, yeah, for sure. Yeah, those sensitive areas. Yeah, so we brought the blankets, it was me and the boys in between, Sarah. You know, so it was great.

SPEAKER_02 2:52

We ordered and the comfy chairs. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:54

They ordered chocolate shakes. Um, I got some pizza. Sarah got some wings. Oh, fun. And we just enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_02 3:02

It was wait, you got pizza.

SPEAKER_03 3:03

Yeah, they have gluten-free crust.

SPEAKER_02 3:05

Oh my god, incredible. Alamo coming through on the gluten-free because they're like Austin.

SPEAKER_03 3:12

There was a woman sitting next to me who came in. I always feel like this is somebody who it's like, I see you. She came in to the party by herself. Like nobody sat next to her that she knew. Okay. I mean, the theater was sold out, but I could tell she was just there for herself and enjoying the party. It's like going to literally a party by yourself. And I was like, I see you. I love going to movies by myself as well. Um, but it was it was hilarious. People were clapping at parts, and I just love the movie. I love Sandra Bullock. Yeah. Uh I had a great time. It's great to see. I never saw it on a big screen, so it was great.

SPEAKER_02 3:52

Yeah, I love it. Oh my god, that's so fun. I didn't realize it had like such a cult following.

SPEAKER_03 3:59

Yeah, I don't know if it is a cult following. That's a good point. People weren't into it though. Nobody really dressed up. I was expecting maybe a few pageant type outfits. The only person who was dressed up was the person from the Alamo. She made a joke about it too. She's like, This is my prom drama. Um, but it was just a it was a blast. It was a lot of fun. That is so fun. It was cool. Yeah. They had dentist appointments in the morning, so the day ended much better than it started.

SPEAKER_02 4:31

Oh my god. I have to go to the dentist tomorrow, actually.

SPEAKER_03 4:34

Yeah, they went, and it was fine, no cavities. Just take so long to clean the braces for Shane. Oh, so she has braces. Yeah. Did you know that?

SPEAKER_02 4:46

Oh my god, how did I not know that?

SPEAKER_03 4:49

I don't have you ever do it.

SPEAKER_02 4:50

Does he maybe kind of like talking about it? Do you look at it? I mean, I do like when we're talking. But maybe he kind of has that where he hides them a little.

SPEAKER_03 4:59

Well, he's got long hair, that probably hides it a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 5:02

Oh, he has, and Wes doesn't.

SPEAKER_03 5:05

Not yet. Not yet. He'll be getting them. Interesting. For sure. Wow. I know. And I spent some of the, you know, last week preparing a playlist for Josh.

SPEAKER_02 5:17

Yes, John made Josh a birthday playlist. Which I was really excited about. Oh my god, Josh was so excited to get it. Titled Bright Beige.

SPEAKER_03 5:27

Bright Beige. With a picture of Danny DeVito leaning on Arnold Schwarzenegger in beige suits from the movie Twins, which is a movie that I used to watch as a kid all the time, thinking it was so funny. Um because they're brothers. So I love it. What's not to be funny about that? We've never seen twins, or I've never seen twins. I've never seen it either. I initially somehow thought that it was a thumbnail of Steely Dan. That's funny.

SPEAKER_01 5:55

Well, you do love Steely Dan.

SPEAKER_03 5:56

I do love Steely Dan. Um they're kind of dressed in a Steely Dan way with like sunglasses and suits. And beige. And beige, yeah. Steely Dan loves beige. Bright beige. Um yeah, loved loved the song, the like national, not national song. Yeah, so that was a little side project. Yeah. Uh Elvi, I I think. Yeah. Yeah. Not to be confused with Elvis. Not to be confused with Elvis.

SPEAKER_01 6:23

Elvi.

SPEAKER_03 6:23

Love that Q-tip album. I actually reviewed it for the Michigan Daily. Did you really? It was one of the few four out of fives that I gave.

SPEAKER_01 6:30

Yeah, Josh did the music reviews of the Michigan Daily.

SPEAKER_03 6:33

Yeah, I like to trash stuff. Yeah. Trash the cure, trash Oasis.

SPEAKER_02 6:37

Well, you know I he trashed stuff that he now loves.

SPEAKER_03 6:40

L C D. Well, I didn't trash L C D, I gave them a three. They just shows. I mean mature. You know, I love Tribe Called Quest. So it I was debating whether to put a Tribe Called Quest song on there or just straight up Q-tip. The badly drawn boy song was one I didn't know. That's a banger. That I enjoyed. From way back. That's like circa, I don't even know what, 2003, maybe or something like that. Once around the block. That used to get played at like house parties probably for me post-college, maybe like 2005, actually. Uh that was that's a great song. Hot Wax by Beck is um an underrated Beck song. Odolet. Love that album. Rated album, but that song? I mean, come on. Get it into your live rotation, Beck. I didn't know whether to put a Beck song on there. Well, you did. And you like Hot Wax? When it came on, I got very excited and thought. I feel like that's like one of the songs that I think of as like my Beck songs. You like it too? Like it's like I'll put it on a playlist, I'll be like, Bet you don't know this one. Bet you don't bet you don't remember. Yeah, you were you were thinking Loser, weren't you? Or Where Alito? Wait, what's the other one? Uh Beer Can? That one? Or uh Debbie or Deborah? Is Deborah he that's in his live rotation? Isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 8:03

Yeah, I'll tell you, he plays the hits when you see him live.

SPEAKER_03 8:06

When you see him live, he doesn't go deep one way. He doesn't oh he doesn't go like deep trolls. He goes a little deep.

SPEAKER_02 8:10

Maybe a little. I mean, his band is the tightest man I've ever seen live in my entire life. They are insane how good they are. And he's he's up there moving and grooving like a freak show in the best way. Wasn't that show incredible? Yeah, it's it's one of the best shows. All three times I've seen him. He is like losing his mind up there. He's a prophetic voice. He's a prophetic voice.

SPEAKER_03 8:33

I do like Sea Change. I think that's my favorite album.

SPEAKER_02 8:36

Lame!

SPEAKER_03 8:38

I'm just kidding, I love Sea Change.

SPEAKER_02 8:39

Wait, what else is on Sea Change?

SPEAKER_03 8:41

The big one. Uh Paper Tiger, something like that. Um Golden Age. Golden Age.

SPEAKER_02 8:48

Let the Golden Age begin. Yep. Wait, what's the one with the woman's name? The song?

SPEAKER_01 8:56

Baby I'm alust. Baby I'm a lost cause.

unknown 9:02

No.

SPEAKER_03 9:03

He played that live. He just sang it better than it's a good thing. Is that Deborah?

SPEAKER_01 9:07

Is it Deborah?

SPEAKER_03 9:08

That's the one with someone's name in it. It's Deborah.

SPEAKER_01 9:13

Lost cause. Baby Am Sebastian.

SPEAKER_03 9:17

I'm glad that scratched an itch for you. Yeah. Obviously, the Bell and Sebastian song. I love Bell and Sebastian. They have a two-night run at Salt Chad coming up in May. Oh, wow. We saw them at Salt Chad. Drumroll, please. Salt Chad. Yeah. And well, they're back two nights. One night's out of the road. I don't know. I heard it on the radio actually coming over here. I just caught the tail end of it. But one of the nights is sold out already. Uh, I think there's still tickets available. I saw them at the Chicago Theater a long, long time ago.

SPEAKER_02 9:48

They're more like Ernest.

Music Playlists And Birthday Weekend

SPEAKER_03 9:49

And that's my that's my favorite album, The Life Pursuit. Fair enough. I feel like that is their last one that I would consider amongst my favorites. Yeah. Real nice and poppy. Yeah. Love it. They go blues are still blue. I love that song. I love that song. Sookie. Sookie in the graveyard. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:10

Well, this actually really is a perfect segue into what we did with the weekend because it was really all about Josh's birthday.

SPEAKER_03 10:16

Oh, I was gonna say just listen to my playlist. Yeah, just listen to her playlist.

SPEAKER_02 10:20

Yes, tell us about the birthday. Celebrate Josh. I mean, it was a lot of like going out to dinner. Sure. We went to Trivilly Tavern, which was really fun with Josh's mom. And they they have a sticky date cake there that was like dates. Oh yeah, you don't like dates.

SPEAKER_03 10:37

We're back on the date shakes.

SPEAKER_02 10:38

Wait, do you like I know Palm? Oh my god, I forgot about the date shake.

SPEAKER_03 10:43

Rewind the tape on that.

SPEAKER_02 10:44

I truly that just hit me. I am constantly talking about dates. Well, okay, it's it's kind of a derivative of like sticky toffee pudding. Have you ever had that? No. It's like a famous like British dessert. It's really good. I I think it might be my favorite dessert. Some sticky something. Whether it's the day cake or toffee but so it's a cake. This was a cake, and it's really big. They give you like that big of a piece, and they make a brown butter ice cream. I mean, it's like knock your socks off good. And they have it at all those, like I think all those hog salt restaurants. So like Trivoli Tavern, Armada Gel House. Armageel House, they might have it at O'Chaval.

SPEAKER_03 11:29

We're always so not wanting dessert there.

SPEAKER_02 11:31

Honestly, I think it might be gluten-free. Didn't she say something was gluten-free that we were just she said something is gluten-free? She's like, it's completely gluten-free. Maybe that wasn't what she was talking about.

SPEAKER_03 11:43

You're like, we won't have that, Jonathan's not with us. Thanks. Yeah. Get us the delicious.

SPEAKER_02 11:46

Give us all the gluten that's good.

SPEAKER_03 11:48

Give us any bread you have with brown butter.

SPEAKER_02 11:52

More brown butter and put some gluten in that.

SPEAKER_03 11:54

Brown butter ice cream.

SPEAKER_02 11:56

Yeah. Um, so that was really good. And then Josh and I did our dinner, just the two of us, which we like to do. And we went to a place called Table Donkey and Stick. Have you heard of it?

SPEAKER_03 12:06

Table Donkey and Stick? No.

SPEAKER_02 12:08

It's so I think later. Yeah, it's a bit named after like a brother's grim fairy tale.

SPEAKER_03 12:14

Never heard of it.

SPEAKER_02 12:15

And he said it's like Alpine.

SPEAKER_03 12:17

They couldn't have named it one of the better ones, one of the good ones.

SPEAKER_02 12:20

Right. Like, well, Hanson Gradle is a brother's tank, right? Yeah. Wait, let me look up what Alpine Cuisine is really quick because I'm Table, Donkey, and Stick.

SPEAKER_03 12:30

Is that the name of a brother's grim, or is it just like kind of a compilation? Well, either way, nobody knows anything about it. I love the title because I can picture all three things. I remember eating for my birthday years ago at a place in Seattle, and I think it was called How to Cook a Wolf or something like that. Uh-huh. Or how to kill a wolf, or I don't know. But it was, I was like, this is a great name for a restaurant. Yeah. Like a how-to. Like a how-to. Or just how to have a table, a donkey, and a stick.

SPEAKER_02 13:02

Wait, okay, so Alpine cuisine is the regional cuisine of different regions of the Alps. Despite clear regional differences, this cuisine has been characterized throughout the entire Alpine region for centuries by the isolated rural life and the Alpine huts and mountain villages.

SPEAKER_03 13:16

Like Elsace Lorraine, like German, French, Italian type of stuff.

SPEAKER_02 13:22

Yeah, maybe German, Austrian, Austrian.

SPEAKER_03 13:27

Yeah, maybe.

SPEAKER_02 13:30

Well, because we got Schnitzel, which is like so German, right?

SPEAKER_03 13:34

Very German.

SPEAKER_02 13:35

It was 10 out of 10. It was pork schnitzel. And we got then um gnocchi.

SPEAKER_03 13:42

And the server was like Was it gnocchi or Spetzel?

SPEAKER_02 13:46

Uh it was actually gnocchi, but why didn't they call it Spetzel?

SPEAKER_03 13:50

Well, because if it's fusion or if it's multiple regions, then sure, the Italian.

SPEAKER_02 13:55

Oh right, because there are the Italian Alps.

SPEAKER_03 13:57

Aren't there?

SPEAKER_02 13:58

Yeah, it's in the like dolomites or whatever. Yeah, I think so. So he was like, Noodles and Schnitzel. He's like, like the sound of music. And this was a blank that that's like a uh blind spot for Josh and I, the sound of music. Which have you seen it? Yeah. Okay, so isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 14:16

On stage and uh the movie, sure.

SPEAKER_02 14:20

Are noodles and schnitzel like a thing?

SPEAKER_03 14:22

Not that I remember.

SPEAKER_02 14:23

Not that you remember. Okay, he said he watches it every year, so he's like in the world. Okay, that's fair. He's like a big fan. Then it must be. And I and is it set in the Alps? The sound of music? Like it's like mountaintops, right?

SPEAKER_03 14:35

Well, yeah, I mean it's set, yeah. Um, I mean, not the whole movie, but I think yeah, some of it, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:43

So it's almost like, and then okay, let's see if I can figure out table donkey and stick. I know this is going too long, but now I'm curious.

SPEAKER_03 14:48

Now we're going too long. We're on a tight what's the symbol, Josh, for tight?

SPEAKER_01 14:54

Um we're on a tight time less. What do you got?

SPEAKER_03 14:57

Tighten it up.

SPEAKER_02 14:58

Oh! Okay, table donkey and stick refers to a brother's grim tale in which three brothers leave home to apprentice for a carpenter, a miller, and a turner. The carpenter pays the brother with a table that magically sets itself with rustic delicacies, which is promptly stolen by a wicked innkeeper. The miller gives the second brother a donkey that shits gold coins at the word brickle brit.

SPEAKER_03 15:21

Table, donkey, and stick.

SPEAKER_02 15:23

Ten out of ten.

SPEAKER_03 15:24

Eleven out of ten.

SPEAKER_02 15:25

It was really a fun birthday. And then we saw Freakal on Saturday. Do you know Freaka? The band? They're pretty good. They're like really young, but they're they're like indie. I think they're yeah, they're like indie. I do like them.

SPEAKER_03 15:39

Indie. Their genre is generic indie.

SPEAKER_02 15:42

It kind of his voice is a little like Josh or something, like Modest Mouse.

SPEAKER_03 15:46

Oh, okay, interesting.

SPEAKER_02 15:47

And mixed with kind of like Connor Oberst a little.

SPEAKER_03 15:51

Never was into him as much as other as other people were, but you'll like this guy more, I think. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:57

And there's a little like what else isn't there?

SPEAKER_03 15:59

They've got a bit more testosterone.

SPEAKER_02 16:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:02

They can be pretty well. They're not low, they're not low T. They're medium T, they're middle T. They're middle T. Middle T. Quite low T. You could kind of dance to a lot of their stuff. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:14

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:14

I like it. Especially live. Yeah, what is it? Freakout?

SPEAKER_02 16:18

Freako. So R-I-K-O.

SPEAKER_03 16:21

Okay. They're explosive live. They're from Evanston. Which is kind of cool.

SPEAKER_02 16:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:27

Local.

SPEAKER_02 16:28

They're local.

SPEAKER_03 16:29

Local band makes good.

SPEAKER_02 16:30

Local band.

SPEAKER_03 16:34

Freako makes good. Headline. Local band makes good. Yeah. On Josh's birthday.

SPEAKER_01 16:41

For Josh's birthday.

SPEAKER_02 16:43

Yeah. So that was good. Awesome. We were definitely feeling our age standing at that show. Like my lower back was singing by the end of that. It only gets worse. It's like it's tough to stand. And like I never picked the right shoes for like long standing. Do you wear gym shoes to a concert?

SPEAKER_03 16:59

To a concert. I mean, I haven't been to one in a long time, but yes, that would definitely be the move.

Meet Megan Hovius And Her Path

SPEAKER_02 17:04

I should do that. I need to wear gym shoes and stuff like that. I wore or toms. Those can be okay. But they don't have a lot of like support at the bottom. Not at all. And you're just kind of like flat as flat can be. Yeah. So anyway, that's what's been going on. Um, we have we finally have the manifestation episode with guest Megan Hovius. Welcome to the pod, Megan! Hello, thank you for having me. Oh my God, we are thrilled to have you. Thank you for joining us. Um, and yeah, so Megan and I, spoiler alert, Megan and I are dear friends. We met in grad school. And Megan, obviously, I went to social work grad school, as did Megan. And Megan has gone on to become a lawyer at this point. And she also in the interim was a CPA. So Megan has Megan is a jack of all trades, has a lot of different areas of expertise. We love it. So, yeah, tell us a little bit, Megan, about yourself and kind of like where you are now. We know you're a former social worker. What's your life like now?

SPEAKER_00 18:16

So I am now, as you said, working as an attorney. I uh do commercial litigation. I practice in DC. I live in Maryland, but I practice in DC. Um, and I work at a law firm. So my life is like pretty busy. Like I I work a lot, but um, I love it. I feel like I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing. Um yeah, it's great. And I live here with my husband and our cats.

SPEAKER_02 18:39

Oh my God, that makes me so happy to hear you say you're loving it. What do you feel like you love most about it?

SPEAKER_00 18:45

Um, I think I'm somebody who, at their core, wanted to become an attorney because I love to gossip. Like it that's a 100% real answer. And I love getting the tea. I love just like a messy scenario. Like tomorrow I'm getting an assignment that involves floofing. I don't know what it is, but I'm like psyched for it. And then like far below that in terms of why I love it, is that there's always something new to learn. Like, I think one of the reasons I've lived so many lives career-wise, is because I get bored kind of easily and I always like to be learning something new. And attorney is definitely a job where you're never mastering it.

unknown 19:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:23

And if you're someone like me who also feels like a really powerful need to be right, it's a really good outlet.

SPEAKER_02 19:30

I never really thought about the gossip angle.

SPEAKER_00 19:33

You get tea, like people have to tell you, or you can't help them.

SPEAKER_02 19:37

And you're like learning all the stuff that's like everybody else, you're almost like hiding from everybody else.

SPEAKER_00 19:44

Yeah, and a lot of times it's not salacious, like at all. You probably guys probably hear way more salacious things in your work than I do. For me, it's just like the funny things that the stupid things people say to their coworkers that they think no one will ever read.

SPEAKER_02 19:57

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 19:58

So it's like low-stakes gossip a lot of the time. Sometimes it's high-stakes gossip, but a lot of the time it's just like really regular stuff that is just entertaining.

SPEAKER_02 20:06

I think about that sometimes as a therapist. I'm like, some some part of me is doing this because I'm nosy, also. Yeah. You know, I just simply And that's okay. Yeah, I know that's in there. Yeah. What about you?

SPEAKER_03 20:22

Uh yeah. It's hard not to think that there's some motivation there to want to know.

SPEAKER_04 20:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:29

Like some deep like things that aren't revealed.

SPEAKER_02 20:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:35

Um Yeah. What so you could have gone into social work and maybe fulfilled that need if that's truly the need. What made you go? What made you go into then the CPA law route?

SPEAKER_00 20:51

So I went to college for accounting and I worked in corporate accounting in Indianapolis for a couple years after I graduated. And I think that job was probably like I had outgrown it, like it was an entry-level job. I was super bored, kind of doing the same thing every day, and was ready to basically like leave the small city that I had lived in and just kind of do something different. And like at that point in my life, most people that I had met were exactly like me, and I was just really looking for a change. And I think that feeling kind of lost and dissatisfied drew me to the idea of social work, like because I just wanted to expand my horizon so much, and like kind of just wanted to change my entire life. Um, and I had always been interested in like kind of criminal issues, like criminology, criminal justice, and things like that. But my my family was very practical, so they really wanted me to get like a super practical degree that I could use for like good career stability, good job prospects pretty much right away. And accounting is amazing for that. There's a lot of things that I like about it, but um I ended up going to Photoshop school, I think, to kind of fulfill that need, and it did fulfill that need for sure, like it opened my. Eyes up so much and really changed my perspective on the world. And of course, that's where I met Kelly. Um, and then I was a social worker for about three months in a like a like a mental health court. It's like a diversion program for people who commit non nonviolent crime. And it was the most stressful thing I had ever done in my entire life. Like I couldn't pay my bills. I got to the point by the end of the three months, I was like throwing up every morning because I was so stressed about the job. And there were just a lot of issues with like the supervision. They really discouraged people having boundaries with their clients, and we I it was just burnout, really. Just a really bad environment. So I quit with nothing lined up and got a chance job doing like grant accounting work. And I did grant accounting for several years, but one of the downsides of accounting is that it does get pretty repetitive, and some people really love that. Like if you're someone who wants to focus on other aspects of your life, corporate accounting can be like a chill way to make a living without a lot of stress. Um but I eventually got bored and was ready to move on. So I really give kudos. Like I know from talking to Kelly about kind of being in the first few years after you graduate social work school, and our friends Kathleen and Jesse, too, I think would probably agree to this is that those are some of the toughest years.

SPEAKER_02 23:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:22

Like those boot camp years, and I just like could not get past them. And I felt like it was an uphill battle all the time. Like I was just doing something that wasn't meant for me.

SPEAKER_03 23:32

Well, good for you for you know, noticing that and not and staying open to other possibilities. Yeah. Because I think that some people really try to grind it out. Um and and they're even more burnt out and unhappy, and maybe not, you know, doing the clinical work that they could be doing and or or just work elsewhere. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:58

Yeah, like who are you helping at that point when you're so burnt out? Like I remember one of the days I knew that this was not right for me was that somebody called me like after work hours on my work phone and they were feeling suicidal. And the first thing, and I was working two jobs to pay bills, so I was like at my other job. And I didn't say this, but what I thought to myself was do it or don't, but I don't have time for this phone call. And I was like, okay, this is not a situation where I'm able to help anyone.

SPEAKER_04 24:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:28

Well, yeah, that's exactly what it is, right? It's like that compassion fatigue. I I've I've been at jobs where you get overworked, and it's exactly like you're saying, it's kind of the like uh company culture, a bit of stretch yourself beyond your limits. Like they actually do sometimes these social work jobs that are also have other institutional elements than just like the mission of social work. Yeah, they will like encourage you to go way beyond your boundaries. And then I I've totally had situations like that where someone's in a ton of pain and I'm just like, get away from me. You know, like I I and it's really like a sign of like I'm actually drowning and we're just gonna drown together. So it's like this doesn't, and then you really need something, right? Something in the immediate and something in the long term that's like a shift. Yeah, it's so hard, definitely, in those first years, and you're not being paid a lot. I remember, I remember like a check coming through at the last minute for like rent and being like, oh my God, thank God this is enough. You know, which is crazy, you know, to live like that. It's so nuts.

SPEAKER_00 25:42

But I do feel like going through those really difficult years like led me to that manifestation journey. And there were so many manifestations along the way that got me to where I am now. So I am grateful for it at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_02 25:55

Totally. Yes. Oh my God, this is kind of the perfect segue. Cause I think we you and I are talking about like before we found manifestation, those years, you know, where like struggles like that are for me in my life, I don't know about you, were so much harder before I had the framework.

SPEAKER_00 26:13

Everything was an uphill battle.

SPEAKER_02 26:15

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:16

Or a lot of things were. Not everything, but a lot of things.

SPEAKER_02 26:20

A lot of things. Okay, so let's get into the manifestation of it all.

SPEAKER_03 26:25

Let us get into it.

What Manifestation Means To Us

SPEAKER_02 26:27

Let's get into it. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 26:28

Buckle up. Well, okay, I'll start with this.

SPEAKER_02 26:30

Buckle up kids. I was, yeah, buckle up kids. I was two like licensed therapists talking about what what the internet mostly calls a pseudoscience. Well, I don't care what anyone says.

SPEAKER_03 26:46

Are you saying it's a science? Well, no, but I the term is it's funny though that you throw it out there like, I mean, the goal of T.

SPEAKER_02 26:53

But it's like you wouldn't call like Judaism a pseudoscience. You know what I mean? Like there is a spiritual element to it. Yeah. And I love how Megan says, I don't care what anyone says. That's exactly how I feel. So, okay, manifestation. I was looking into it. I'm like, okay, let me first look a little at like the history of this. And actually, I realized that I somewhere in this bookshelf have what they said on, at least on Wikipedia, was the first book on manifestation. It's by this guy, Wallace Waddles, and it's called like how to be rich or something. And I did, in fact, read it, and it's very strange. It reads like so strange. And I remember thinking, like, okay, am I gonna be able to adopt these principles? I mean, it's obviously it morphed since then. But a big like boom of manifestation happened with The Secret, which Megan, have you read The Secret?

SPEAKER_00 27:53

I think I had a copy at some point, but I don't know that I ever read it.

SPEAKER_02 27:56

Okay, I've never read it. Are you familiar with it?

SPEAKER_03 28:00

I've heard of it, I've never read.

SPEAKER_02 28:01

Okay. I the idea with The Secret is basically, and this is manifestation in general, that your mindset, particularly with the secret, it would be your thoughts, can will your desires into reality. Or manifestation in general is the idea that you can will your desires into reality. The secret talks about your thoughts and like thinking positive. And that's a big there's a lot of movements of manifestation where it's like the more positively you think, the more you manifest what you want. And they call it sometimes, they call it like staying in the vortex. You know, it's like staying in positivity and you stay in that positive energy and things come your way. I I know like the first times I heard that, it didn't really resonate for me. Yeah. Yeah. What do you think, Megan?

SPEAKER_00 28:58

I think like it's kind of like a form of toxic positivity where you have to stay positive all the time. And I feel like I grew up with that a lot of that. Like, that's kind of the Midwestern way, is people want to be like very pleasant. Yeah, I feel a lot of the times. Like nobody wants to stop being polite and start getting real, so to speak. Um, and so I always found that way of being like very inauthentic. Like I just have to be fake all the time. Like I want to complain, I wanna be in a bad mood sometimes, I want to feel negative emotions, I want to panic. And the the secret process doesn't really leave room for any of that, even though it's very authentic to the human experience.

SPEAKER_02 29:40

Well, yeah, what do you think of that idea of like positivity bringing about change?

SPEAKER_03 29:46

Well, I mean, I you know, what about behaviors? I guess would be like you can't just think positive and everything happens for you. Right. Yeah. So I think that there's I I I'm curious about more of like the behavioral component to it. I mean, there's certainly something to be said about thinking in more neutral or positive ways.

SPEAKER_02 30:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:10

I think I would need to know more.

SPEAKER_02 30:11

Yeah. One thing I remember there was a period where this was probably like deep COVID, where I was kind of like, you know what? I wonder if there's any part of these more positive thinking methodologies that like would resonate with me. And there was like this podcast, which like since I like can't find it. I feel like there's like no trace of it. But it was um like the Abraham Maslow idea of like positivity and be in the vortex, meaning like be in this positive space. And they talked a lot about gratitude being a big thing, which like the gratitude piece yeah, the guy Megan's Megan's vomit like uh yeah, that was uh vomit in the mouth, or okay, I'm obsessed.

SPEAKER_00 30:59

The vomit in the mouth, I roll combo.

SPEAKER_02 31:02

Yeah, yes, because gratitude can be so like insulting at times where it's like so insulting.

SPEAKER_00 31:08

I mean here's what sticks in my craw about gratitude is that like it's fine to be grateful for the things that you have. Yeah, if that makes you feel good, that's totally fine. But it's often marketed to women as a way to get what you want in a way that it is never marketed to men. That's so so it's almost like you should actually just be so grateful that you have like a job and friends and anyone even likes you.

SPEAKER_02 31:32

Yeah, you should be grateful for that. You're so right. It's almost like waving a watch in front of someone's face. Like, actually, you like this suppressed position you've been put into and you're grateful for it.

SPEAKER_03 31:44

It's like you're you're making as much as a man now. Be grateful for that. Yeah, when you're not so insulting when you're not, yeah, exactly. Uh you have the WNBA, things are really moving up. This is the same thing, you know. They're making seven part, they're making seven grand a year. Yeah. It's it's huge. Yeah. Yeah. No. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:04

I hate it. There's a lot of there's a big influencer culture out there around gratitude with people doing their gratitude journals in the morning, which I'm like, I just don't think you're waking up at 5 a.m. and doing a gratitude journal. Yeah. I just don't think you are. And if you are, that's fine, but it's not the reason why you have anything that you want.

SPEAKER_02 32:22

Right, right.

SPEAKER_03 32:23

But manifesting is the reason you have what you want. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So then maybe our listeners would want, and I would be curious as not that I thought those two things were similar, uh, but there is a lot of positivity that goes along with gratitude. So I'm curious to tease apart the differences here.

SPEAKER_02 32:41

Yeah. Well, this brings us to us talking about the the type of manifestation we found, which Megan and I kind of came to this together. We're like manifestation accountability buddies, basically. So yeah, tell me from your perspective, Megan, how you came to the to be magnetic style of manifestation.

SPEAKER_00 33:01

It was definitely in those years where I was struggling financially. And I was getting like a decent salary, but I was still struggling financially. Like, and I was like, I don't know why. Like, I made enough money. I have a budget, like I know a lot about personal finance. Why am I struggling so much? And then you one day had heard Lacey on the Goop podcast, and you were telling me about it. And I looked into it and they had like a financial workshop. Oh yes. And I was like, it was like 60 bucks or something. I was like, maybe it's worth 60 bucks. And then like everything changed within a few months of that. And I was like, oh my god, I think this like works.

unknown 33:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:42

And so then after that, I signed up for the full membership and I was like all in. Like I had seen enough evidence. Yeah. This is evidence-based. This is an it wasn't double blind, but this was evidence-based science.

SPEAKER_02 33:54

Yeah, participant of one, and it's me. Yeah. Yeah. So okay, exactly. That's totally how I remember it. I remember.

SPEAKER_03 34:03

Well, I'm sorry, timeout. Can we slow down here? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the program taught you what?

TBM Steps Unblocking Expanding Tests

SPEAKER_02 34:08

Well, that's what we're gonna get into. Oh, okay. It's it's a it's a complicated curriculum. And it's it's a lot more complicated than positive thinking, right? Yeah. But I remember, so Megan mentioned I was listening to that goop podcast. It's gonna seem like this episode is like an advertisement for this manifestation platform. You can be into it if you're not. I'll we'll talk about our relationship to it. But I was listening to it, and this goop podcast at the beginning used to be so good. Like they used to have really interesting people on. I was listening to them interview, and it was almost like they interviewed her like outside somewhere. I remember there were like birds chirping in the background, this Lacey Phillips woman who started this program. And she said, Everybody uses this method of positive thinking. And she's like, What I really have noticed in my own life is that self-worth is the law of attraction. When I'm in my self-worth, connected to my worthiness, I manifest whatever I want. And I remembered hearing that and feeling like that boom of like insight, like, oh, that that resonates like in the center of my bones. Like that is, I know I believe that. It was like a memory coming forward. And she, it's like basically this like four-step thing. And you tell me, Megan, if you would add something to this. But it's basically like you write a list, and it's important that it's written. So you write a list of the things that you want. And there's some parameters, it has to be something you could believably have in like three to six months. So it can't be like I'm living in an apartment and I want a mansion. It has to be something like a small step. And you write it down pen and paper. And then the minute you do that, you're kind of like opening your energy by doing that. And then there's these two steps in the middle where you expand and you unblock. And unblocking is really a lot of what we do in therapy. So you kind of like unblock your self-worth basically. Like, what are the blocks? What are the parts inside of you? Or like the shadows that are kind of trapped away that you need to unblock and integrate into yourself. A lot of like parts work, really, that I do now with clients, and EMDR work, which I do now as well. Um, and then expanding is like the things you want going out in the world and finding people that you can relate to that have accomplished what you want to accomplish, to kind of like show your psyche that you can have this thing you want, that it's possible in the world. And then the final step is like passing what she calls tests, which are like tests of your self-worth essentially. So I remember coming coming. We were at Maud's Liquor Bar, which is no longer in service. Sadly, I love that cute little place. Um, and I sat down with you and I told you I'd used it on a date, and it like instantly worked. And like for the first time in a long time, I manifested like a date that was great. And I had such a great experience. So I was hooked from that point on. And I told you about it. And I remember Kathleen was kind of meh on it, and you were like, okay, I'm on board with this. And then like off we went. So that okay, now what are tell us your questions, John, on that like step by step.

SPEAKER_03 37:32

And the last part was what? What was the last step again?

SPEAKER_02 37:35

Passing tests. Oh, I didn't even explain this. Tests are like you're getting close to the thing you want, and someone or something kind of offers you the opportunity to settle for something less, or it can be like a trigger, can be a test to like I'm manifesting a pay raise, and you know, someone at work criticizes my performance or something. That can be a test. And your job in that is to show up like fully yourself vulnerably, to not like shrink and move away from your self-worth in that experience, in either experience.

SPEAKER_03 38:14

Yeah. I mean, I think it sounds just like a lot of things that we talk about.

SPEAKER_02 38:18

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:19

Committed action.

SPEAKER_00 38:20

Very alive. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:22

Like do the things you fear because they're meaningful to you.

SPEAKER_02 38:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:27

And uh.

SPEAKER_02 38:31

Yeah, it's very therapy.

SPEAKER_03 38:32

It's also okay, we'll have a have a smarter goal for the next three to six months and find people that have done it, you know?

SPEAKER_02 38:38

And kind of like get them into your psyche by just like talking to them.

SPEAKER_03 38:42

Maybe it's the word manifesting that I don't know about that word.

SPEAKER_01 38:47

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:49

Yeah. It feels like a manifest. Like I we just grabbed it out of the vortex. I just thought about it, it happened. You know, yeah. That's that's what I always like. That's my initial reaction when I hear that word. Um yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:08

Well, yeah. What do you think with the word, Megan? Do you like the word?

SPEAKER_00 39:13

It feels a little woo-woo. Like, I know what you mean. It sounds kind of ridiculous, but I think what most people picture when you say I manifested it is that you just thought it and it appeared. Which I feel like that happened to me the other day. I just thought something and then it appeared. But those are they can be coincidences. Like, you know, there's no, or it can be it's you notice something because it was on your brain already. Like, it really doesn't mean that. Like, for me, when I talked about that money workshop making a big difference, it was like multiple days sitting down and journaling about my childhood, like reflecting on sitting there with my mom while she clipped coupons, like a lot of really reflecting on things that had created limiting beliefs for me.

SPEAKER_04 39:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:56

So it's it's like so much unpacking that brings you to, oh, it just appeared.

SPEAKER_02 40:01

When you do it, it does not feel like it just appeared. It does feel like therapy going through some inner child stuff, going through shadow, you know, parts of you, and really reckoning with yourself.

SPEAKER_03 40:15

Yeah. Well, then I mean, who cares what I think? I do think, though, that word does a disservice to the process.

SPEAKER_01 40:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:26

At first block.

SPEAKER_01 40:27

It probably does.

SPEAKER_03 40:28

It makes me think manifest it. You know, that's just my first reaction to it, which probably isn't fair. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:40

Well, okay. I that word to me well, especially in the TikTok of it. Yeah. Definitely. I'll say something that I like about the word. It and this is a big concept. There's all these like little subconcepts if you actually get into this TBM.

SPEAKER_03 40:58

You like the word because it has man in it?

SPEAKER_02 41:00

I like, yeah. I probably don't like the word.

SPEAKER_03 41:04

You're I couldn't think of a better word. It has man in it.

SPEAKER_02 41:08

I like it because, and Lacey talks a lot about this. A huge piece of the like getting into your self-worth is like non-striving, like non-dog paddling, as Lacey will call it, toward the things you want. It's more like when you name what it is you want, then you kind of sit back and look at like, what do I need to let go of to allow this to show up in my life?

SPEAKER_00 41:36

At the same time, I think having that word manifest gives a sense of like taking your power back. Like oftentimes we feel like we're a victim of our circumstances. This is just the way things are, even if it's not the way I want them to be. The idea that you could manifest something, like I could think it and it could just appear, kind of can remind you that if I want to change my life, I do have the power to do it. I am that powerful, I can create the life that I want.

SPEAKER_02 42:04

And nowhere is it ever like I have the power to live like pain-free. She's very like your feelings, you will experience pain, you will experience struggle. And almost like those are gateways to your growth.

SPEAKER_00 42:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:18

Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_00 42:19

I I had an experience with that very recently where like I was actually looking at my manifestation lists from the last few years, and I have at this point manifested everything that's on them. So now this work to me is more about like, I don't know, self-actualization or something. But I had been I told you I didn't want to talk about career today because I was full of doom and gloom. Because I have been so triggered by like the current economic situations, like probably in an outsized way. Like I had just been talking to people at work who have the same job as me, like live in the same area and make the same amount of money as me. And I'm like, why are none of them panicked about the economy? Like, we all need to be panicked. I'm panicked. And I was talking to my husband, and I was like, you know, like what if we lose our jobs? Like, there's there's no one here, like there's no safety net. Um, like we're just gonna like be homeless, like something bad's gonna happen. And he's like, What are you talking about? Like, you have me, you have your dad, you have my parents, like we have all these people who would be there for us if we really needed it.

SPEAKER_04 43:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:25

And as Kelly knows, I lost my mom last year. And I realized while I was talking to him that like my basic sense of security in the world has changed. And so now, like, these manifestation concepts, they're not about being pain free. Like, I can't get rid of all of the anxiety about the economy. There's always gonna be some of that. We're always gonna have financial responsibilities, and I can't get rid of the pain of experiencing grief either. And in fact, what I realized I had to do was like I have to actually stop and feel some of the sadness that has been coming out. Just being like triggered and being really anxious when in reality there is a lot of sadness underneath that. So you can still be really unblocked and taking a line action, and you're still gonna have loss in your life, and it's still gonna be really painful, unavoidable, unfortunately. Totally.

SPEAKER_02 44:17

Yeah. I feel like you are such a guiding light for me in that. Like I at times where you'll, if we're talking about something, you'll share a story where you're like, I was coming up with this like work issue, and then I finally slowed down and thought, like, what's really going on inside? I remember you told me a story of like someone at work who was like bothering you and bothering you, and like their personality was grating on you. And you kind of realized that they were sort of like an expressing a trait that you had kind of put in shadow yourself and sort of like not let yourself be. And and the the you know, move there is to like embrace that part of yourself and allow it and kind of integrate it. And I was like, I was thought that was so powerful. Like, oh, you're so right. Like, I'm so irritated by this because I've shut it off. And I'm seeing someone else express it, and there's a feeling there.

SPEAKER_00 45:12

I kind of think I remember which coworker you're talking about. Um, but shows that it wasn't that big of a deal in the long run that I'm not really sure if I or it could be this part of me is bad. Nobody can be like this, nobody can have this characteristic.

SPEAKER_01 45:28

Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_00 45:29

We can kind of let go of those things and feel like a little bit more peace in our lives.

SPEAKER_02 45:33

Totally. I'm realizing as we say this, like my fantasy is that by the end of this podcast, John will make a manifestation list.

SPEAKER_03 45:40

Let's do it.

SPEAKER_02 45:41

Okay, amazing. Yeah, and we'll see where it's like.

SPEAKER_03 45:43

Let's make a list.

SPEAKER_02 45:45

Yeah. Well, tell us, Megan, what are some of the big things you've manifested?

SPEAKER_00 45:50

So I reflected a lot on the money messages that I got when I was a kid. My parents both grew up really poor. They're very practical Midwestern people, and they had gotten themselves into like a pretty like solidly middle class situation, which was a huge development for them. But we lived in a town where a lot of people had way more than us, and my parents were constantly living above their means to try to look like they too were at that level, and they really weren't. But like there was nothing wrong with where they were at, and it they had both made huge strides, yeah, um, considering where they had come from. Like there was nothing to be ashamed of, you know. But I think because of that, I developed some limiting beliefs about like, well, I'm never gonna be able to get ahead, I'm never gonna build wealth, I'm never going to be able to really think long term about the future, and that kind of translated into not really having a vision of myself as financially stable. And so I was just always scraping to get by, like always making up for yesterday, always, you know, trying to pay off debts or get my checking account into a positive balance, even though I had enough income for what I needed.

unknown 47:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:06

So after thinking about that, I found a lot of expanders. Um, so all day long I'm just consuming content of people who had paid off debts, and it really did start to eventually make me feel like I can do this too. And one day I got a ping, which was that, hey, you just passed the CPA exam. What if you tutored people on how to do this? Um, so I just Googled like some tutoring jobs and I started tutoring people remotely and started putting that money towards my credit cards.

unknown 47:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:36

I like finally was able to get myself like up to today and could like start a real budget going forward.

SPEAKER_02 47:43

Yeah. Yes. Oh my God, that's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 47:47

It's it there's like so many little manifestations in there, like being able to pay off debt, being able to refinance student loans, being able to save for the future.

SPEAKER_02 47:57

It's not with every client that I'm like, well, what were the thoughts and beliefs and meaning you made out of money? And money is such a central thing in our lives. It is so powerful to think like, I wonder what I learned about money. And like currency, and thus my own sense of like power in this realm specifically. And even it's like your parents' relationship to money is relevant, your grandparents, like it's intergenerational.

SPEAKER_00 48:26

That depression is probably relevant if you're American.

SPEAKER_02 48:29

Totally. I even think about like my ancestors were immigrants from Ireland, which is like famously like you think of like famine. Yeah. You know, like that stuff does kind of trickle. IRA, probably. Totally. All these things, and it is really, it can really unblock you to even just start to notice those narratives. But then, like tangible things come about in your life, which both of us have noticed. And really, for you, would you say law school, you know, was a big part of that?

SPEAKER_00 49:03

A hundred percent. Yeah. When I was getting kind of bored with my accounting job, I was thinking about what was next and considering a few different things. And and I was just like, no, I'm just not jazzed about this. And I just one day just kind of had a ping. Like, what if I went to law school? Um, and I was like, you know what? I'm just gonna take the LSAT and we'll see what happens. Like, I definitely can't go without a good amount of scholarship money. So if I get some scholarship money to a school I like, then I'll go. And if not, I'll just keep doing accounting and that'll be fine. Like, I was not attached to the outcome at all. Like, yeah, um, and then yeah, I ended up getting pretty much almost a full ride to law school. Incredible. And listen, I did not go to Harvard Law, like the law firm from Suits would not have hired me.

SPEAKER_02 49:48

But still, that's incr any law school getting into a getting into it is incredible, and getting nearly a full ride. I mean, I'm calling that a manifestation.

SPEAKER_00 49:59

Well, well, should I tell you how I manifested my husband? Yes, yes, do probably the biggest manifestation on a day-to-day level in my life. Oh, yeah. Um, so when we first started to be magnetic, I didn't even want to think about dating because I was in an on and off long distance situation with this guy who was like always hooking up with other girls, and I was like so delusional about it, but I knew I wasn't ready to leave.

SPEAKER_04 50:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:25

And I had been in like just a series of terrible situationships that I'm so grateful for now and I can laugh about them now.

SPEAKER_04 50:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:33

Um, they're just they're silly little stories, like they're so far away that they don't even matter to me. But I was stuck in this cycle, and I had not learned my lesson that when you're seeking out a partner and someone is giving you the red flags, that they're not what you need. You need to listen to the red flags and leave when you see them. And this person had shown me time and time again that he was not able to give me the commitment or the respect that I want.

SPEAKER_04 51:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:03

But I hadn't quite learned my lesson. Like something Lacey talks about is sometimes you have to learn the hard way by running into the fire. Yeah. And I feel like that's so true with dating. Like, you if you're someone who's kind of attracted to the toxic person, that's sort of what you're drawn to. Like sometimes you just have to date that person many, many times. Like not literally the same person, like different people, but the same type.

SPEAKER_04 51:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:27

And for me, I just hadn't learned my lesson in that scenario. So I went back, the same thing happened. And it wasn't until that second time around that I knew I was done. I was like, okay, be because like what I realized, I was expanded. Like I had initially blamed myself. Like this person cheated because I put too much pressure on him. So that's my fault. And I if you had asked me consciously, like, Megan, do you deserve to be cheated on? Of course I would have said no. But like there I was blaming myself. Like he cheated because of me. If I hadn't put so much pressure on him, this never would have happened.

unknown 52:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:03

But after reflecting on like the number of other women involved in this scenario, I realized he was actually being really disrespectful to them too. And I didn't need to know them to know that they didn't deserve to be treated that way.

SPEAKER_04 52:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:17

And that was a huge expander for me to be like, wow, if I know zero, nothing, I don't even know this girl's name, and I know she doesn't deserve this. Then I can confidently say that I don't deserve this either, and I no longer need to take responsibility for this person's bad behavior. And after that, I was able to really let it go. And I stopped being attracted to the red flags after that because I had just got burned. Like so bad, just charge you with Chris. And then I got expanded like really big time. I was talking to a friend whose partner was a little concerned about the commitment of marriage and having kids. And what she was telling me about his upbringing really resonated with me. Like he was talking about how his parents had a really messy divorce later in life and that he felt like they had just stayed together for the kids and that ultimately getting married and having kids ruined their relationship. So he was kind of afraid of that. And I was like, wait, I think that's how I feel, like deep down. Like consciously I didn't feel that way. Consciously I would have said, Oh, of course I want to get married and have a kids. But I had this limiting belief looping in the background that, like, if I actually get married and have kids with someone, I'm gonna be stuck with them. I'll never be able to leave, I'll be miserable, and I won't be able to be happy again until they go to college. Because that was my parents' story.

SPEAKER_04 53:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:43

They were unhappy for a long time, but they had kids at home and they got divorced as soon as I went to college, and it was like it's kind of obvious, guys. It could have been a little more subtle with that one. But like hearing that from somebody else's perspective just just kind of made me realize that like I don't have to repeat that story if I don't want to. Yeah. And then at the same time, I was watching either keeping up with the Kardashians or the Kardashians, whichever one they were filming when Kim and Kanye got divorced.

SPEAKER_02 54:11

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:13

Kim was talking about how embarrassed she was to be getting divorced for a third time. She was like, Yeah, this is really embarrassing for me. Like, I've had three public divorces now. Like, do you think this is fun? No. But like I didn't come this way just to be unhappy. I'm not staying with this guy that I'm not happy with just because it's embarrassing to get divorced. And I was like, if Kim Kardashian can get divorced, then if I ever need to get divorced, I can just do that. I don't have to be miserable. And that like took this huge weight off my shoulders that, like, actually, when you get married to someone, you still have a choice. You're never ever stuck. And I think like a month later, I met my husband. Oh, amazing. And I never I've never had any other problems since then.

SPEAKER_02 54:58

My life has been surfing with this.

SPEAKER_03 55:03

That's incredible.

SPEAKER_02 55:04

Not one fight, not a single conflict.

SPEAKER_01 55:07

Yeah, it's so funny.

SPEAKER_00 55:09

Um no, in reality, I realized that um being in even a healthy relationship with someone you really love does not solve all of your problems. And, you know, all kinds of things have triggered me in the last five years.

SPEAKER_02 55:23

Oh, we've talked a ton about that, you and I. Like, because we really worked so hard at manifesting our partners and then, you know, realizing, oh wow, there's a whole new landscape of like struggle, you know, and like a whole new, also like landscape of like finding yourself worth through partnership and being like a good partner, receiving well as a partner. Yeah, that is like ongoing terrain. Oh, Megan's cat.

SPEAKER_00 55:54

Yeah, there's like two doors to this room, and one of them is wide open, and she was scratching at the other open.

SPEAKER_02 55:59

I love it. I will dump a short with Winnie on it from Megan's Bachelor Party. I love her, which is amazing. Okay, this is amazing. Well, John, okay, as our skeptic, feel free to be.

SPEAKER_03 56:11

Yeah. No, I mean, I think these limited beliefs that a lot of us have, if we can view that programming from outside of ourselves and see that we can be larger than our programming, that's where you can make a more, you know, meaningful, value-aligned, self-worth type of choice. And it's not, as you've mentioned, it's not really about the outcome. It's yeah, it's more about committing to the things that are meaningful to you and you being resilient in whatever the outcome is. And there's a lot of fear and trepidation that comes along with all of that. So it's not trying to get rid of it, it's saying these things are there because that's just the human experience, and we still want to move in a more meaningful direction or vital direction in our life. So I I'm not um thinking it's you know, woo-woo. It sounds like there's a lot of therapeutic parts to it, whether you're doing therapy or not.

unknown 57:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:16

100%. Yeah, totally. And yeah, like those, it's funny, like those limiting beliefs. I think there are a lot of people walking around who are kind of being run by beliefs they're completely unaware of on the conscious level. And what's so nice is sometimes just the identifying of that thing, there's a growing larger than it.

SPEAKER_03 57:38

Well, last week when we had Monica on, Monica Tanner, we talked through a lot of from this perspective, manifesting probably limiting beliefs in a a marriage. Yeah. That make marriage maybe not the healthiest. And one of them, it's interesting because you brought up the idea of divorce.

SPEAKER_00 57:56

And that was Yeah, that divorce isn't an option. It's not an option. Um I hate when people say it.

SPEAKER_03 58:01

She was laughing about it because she was like, it's always an option. But you know, it's it's consciously you could say that, or logically, you could be like, well, of course, I could always get divorced. If you don't truly believe that though, uh, it's either going to be limiting you in so many different ways, whether you even want to engage with people or open yourself up to the possibility of marriage, or you stay in a miserable, toxic situation. Um, this theme that we've been talking about of whether it be beliefs or programming or core beliefs, it's been on our minds lately on the podcast. Totally.

SPEAKER_00 58:36

I think if you're someone walking around out there and your life doesn't look the way you want it to, and you can't figure out why you think you're doing all the right things and you just don't know what the problem is, there's probably a good chance that there's a limiting belief that is looping subconsciously that you are just not aware of.

SPEAKER_02 58:55

Yeah, and like that looping underneath everything. Yeah. Oh my God, I feel like we could talk about this forever. Is there anything you think, Megan, we've left out that we need to mention in terms of like the program and like parts of it that have been so useful?

SPEAKER_00 59:11

The only thing I will say is you and I differ on the meditations. I cannot get into them. I either cannot focus or I fall asleep. So I do a lot of journaling instead. Yes. For me, that's more useful for getting into that kind of like state of flow where you're just kind of letting your thoughts and your feelings be free.

SPEAKER_02 59:31

Yes, totally. Oh, I love that. So you'll turn it on and the questions that come up in the meditation, you'll journal.

SPEAKER_00 59:37

I don't even I don't even turn it on. I just do the journal prompt. Well, I guess I should say I've done them all so many times now, like with not a lot of success, that I do know what she's gonna talk about. Yeah. So I am like kind of journaling with that in mind.

SPEAKER_02 59:52

With that in mind.

SPEAKER_00 59:53

Maybe give it a try if you're gonna try out the don't just take my word for it. Plenty of people like them. I'm just yeah, like, I think too high strung.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:00

I feel like I do hear so many people that do this program talking about how they're like, I just can't get into the meditation, like I can't drop it.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:08

It's not for everyone, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:09

But I I will say this, I also think like the meditations we've led in group therapy and stuff, like I think there's a little finessing you can do, or like more time she could do to get you into like get really relaxed, yeah, totally, to really kind of let go. Um, and I love it, and I still struggle to do it all the time. I didn't meditate today. But yeah, so yeah, that's a really good point. There's different ways to come to her little like meditations. And yeah, if you're into this program and you want to try it out, it's called to be magnetic. They call it neural manifestation because they do have a neuroscientist that they work with um who kind of like connects the neuroscience piece to it.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:56

And who is Lacey?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:58

Lacey, well, great question.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:01

Twitter.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:03

We are end dropping Lacey's name left and right, and we have no idea who Lacey is.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:08

She's really just this woman.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:13

Manifested out of nowhere from an AI woman.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:17

Well, she basically said she was almost like a student of manifestation, and she read books on it and tried things. And more in her life, what she noticed was like when I connect myself worth, that's when I manifest the things that I want. And yeah, she's definitely the most woo-woo part of all of it. For sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:35

We're making it sound like she's a cult leader, but it's not like that. It's not like that. It's she's right there with that.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:42

That's I know.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:43

It's exactly what a cult member would be.

Manifestation Meets Systemic Reality

SPEAKER_03 1:01:45

One thing I was curious about, I know we're almost at time here, though, is um is is the program sensitive to the idea? You know, one of the criticisms with a lot of the way mindfulness is packaged to people is if you're just more mindful, your life is going to look different. And it takes the onus off of more systemic things and problems that are in and going on around us. Um, so I'm I'm all about the empowerment and is the program sensitive to it's not just about making the list and following through with these things. We also have to be aware of hurdles that are also outside of our control that aren't that don't really have to do with limiting beliefs. Um yeah, I don't know. I was just curious about that because that's often a criticism of mindfulness practices and and the way that especially mindfulness is packaged in corporate America, which is it takes the spotlight off of real toxic systemic structures and saying, well, if you're just a more mindful employee, then you won't have burnout and you won't have so many problems in your life. So I was just curious if they spoke to that. Yeah, what do you think, Megan?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:00

Yeah, so I think it's I mean, it's kind of a disclaimer on all of her programs, which is that if you are someone who's been a victim of abuse or racism, sexism, prejudice, anything like that, you did nothing to attract that in with your limiting beliefs. I think the takeaway for people who have experienced that is whatever that systemic abuse or prejudice has taught you negatively about yourself is not true. And you can unlearn that. I mean, there's only so much these types of programs I think can do. Sure, totally with that sort of thing. But you know what I think like every time I read the news and hear about like a gilded ballroom being built is that like if we all collectively had higher self-worth and lived in our authenticity, the world would be so much better. Like you can just see people acting out their low self-worth all the time. Yeah. Or people acting inauthentically at the expense of others all the time. I mean, that's what labor unions are about, like collective high self-worth. Yes, totally. Oh, I love that. Yeah, rising tide lifts all boats.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:10

Yeah, you're so right. That is what labor unions are.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:13

It's like this collective self-if you take nothing else away from this, dear listener, you should join a union.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:19

Totally. I love that. I think you're so right. It's like there, it is more of like a disclaimer. And you know, I even think, I don't know about you in the therapy space, sometimes that comes up where truly it's like very unfair systems have affected someone with multiple systems. And you have to sit in front of them and help them through that when you're like, yeah, these systems exist and they're terrible and abusive, and you're in them. Of course you're gonna feel pain or have dysfunction. And given that reality, how do we work with it?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:53

Yeah, like with many things, it's an individual solution to what are often systemic problems, an unfortunate reality.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:01

Yeah. And I love the idea of like the collective self-worth then can move the system. I'm gonna, I'm gonna take that. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my god. Okay, any other thoughts from any of us? This has been amazing.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:15

No, very informative.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:16

Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:17

Now, John, will you conversation list?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:21

Will you make a manifest? Yeah. Uh it has to be something in the next three to six months.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:28

Okay, three to six months.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:33

And it's gotta be for you. It can't be for someone else.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:36

It's gotta be for me.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:37

Yeah, it can't be like before Wes.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:38

Like a a genie wish.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:40

I would never manifest for Wes. He manifests his own fortune. Um three to six months just for me.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:52

Yeah. And it could be like an object, you could be like, Oh, I want the perfect fitting sweater.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:58

That does sound nice. Yeah. Although it will be hot.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:02

We're all gonna make a perfect cloud.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:04

Summer sweater.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:04

Summer sweater. It's a very Kelly thing to say.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:07

I feel like I I'm under the microscope now and I can't think of anything.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:10

Um Okay, well you can reflect on it and come back.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:13

Let me think about it.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:15

Three to six months. Yeah. I'm gonna think about this.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:18

Yeah. Okay. I love it. I love it. Okay. Well, Megan, if anyone has like manifestation questions for you, is it okay if they reach out to you?

SPEAKER_03 1:06:28

Where do you live? Yeah, what's your social security?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:32

I guess they can reach me on Instagram at the OtherHova. Okay, yes, love it.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:37

Yeah. Or they can um purchase my legal services from my law firm.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:42

Yes, okay. I love it. I honestly feel like your guidance for me and this has been so helpful. I feel like people may reach out to you and ask questions. So that's amazing. I hope they do. Okay, so we'll thank you guys so much for having me. Oh my god, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:58

Thanks for sharing so much for showing.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:00

Oh, it was so fun. We're gonna have you back. I'm gonna force you back at some point.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:05

Now that I realized why I was so doom and gloomy about career, we can talk about career sometime. Yeah, I it would be great. Now that I've unblocked.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:13

Yes, totally. And to talk about like career switching and like the wisdom in that is it wise to start a new career? Start a new career. I love it. Okay, not my god, amazing. Well, thank you so much, Megan. Thank you guys. Okay, and take care.

unknown 1:07:29

Bye.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:30

You guys too. Talk you later. Well, let's get into our how.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:34

Wait, we have to talk about my Josh Star. Oh you're what? I made myself a little birthday present. You did?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:41

Okay, so on Josh's birthday morning, I go to take a shower. Did you manifest this or my god?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:49

And I see a text from him, and it just says, I made myself a little birthday treat. Wait, let me go to it. Hold on. Hey, this is what he wrote. I made myself a little birthday surprise.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:03

Oh, that's great. I he came out, he could not stop laughing.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:10

I was doing dishes at the sink, and my mom was actually sleeping in our guest room. Oh, that's the photo on the bio page.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:18

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:19

Yeah, that's my only photo of myself. That's a great one. So cute. But in case for for those who aren't watching along on YouTube, I just made a little photo of myself with um stars across my face, and it's just a little marquee that says Josh Starr. I mean, it's incredible. Oh my god. And I said this is gonna be my birthday persona. And I'm now Josh Starr. I'm now Josh Star. It's almost like a galaxy around you.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:47

Yeah, it really is. It's like a Milky Way. It's like a halo but a necklace halo. Yeah. Yeah, like a milky wave.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:53

It's good stuff. Yeah, welcome to Josh Galaxy. Josh Star. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:57

I love how I was gonna go past it and you're like, wait, wait, wait. Wait, we gotta mention Josh Starr.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:02

If you have any questions about Josh Starr, feel free to email me at Josh Star at Josh Starry. You have to come out with uh like a concept album. Yeah. Like this is your alter ego.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:14

It's your Sasha Fierce. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:16

Oh yeah. It's your fearless Josh Star Fierce. Ziggy Stardust.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:21

Yeah. It would be funny if like that was like a stage name someone just chose. Like just Kelly Star.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:27

You know, like Kelly Star. What about Martin Starr? Martin Star, but he has two R's. Do you think that's real? Well then it's gotta add an R. Well, yeah, it feels real.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:39

It is real, I think.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:41

Ringo Star.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:44

Josh is running on feed. Ringo?

Parasocial Relationships And Real Connection

SPEAKER_03 1:09:48

Ringo? Anybody? Um and it's fun. I'm not in my highest mode. So how wise is it.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:55

Two. Basically, how wise is it colon parasocial relationships.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:00

Parasocial relationships. Now you had to explain what that meant to me because I didn't know what a parasocial relationship is.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:06

Yeah, it's like the idea is almost like a parallel social relationship. So instead of someone you are like connected to and there's like a reciprocal relationship, it it comes up often with podcasts where someone will like listen every week to us or some other podcast and feel like they're bonding with us, feel like a relationship is developing there when really it's just parallel, like they're parallel to our life instead of like connected by engaging with the body.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:36

So how wise is it to engage in?

SPEAKER_02 1:10:40

Yeah, maybe to like allow yourself to because really the main places this comes up is like media. It's like social media podcasts, TV shows sometimes, like reality shows, you can feel like the real housewives are like in your life. Or I heard someone say it about Gilmore Girls, they're like, I feel like I like live in Star's Hollow, kind of thing. And it's like, how wise is it to let yourself?

SPEAKER_03 1:11:05

Yeah. I mean, I think there's some wisdom in maybe media matters. I feel like it's less concern concerning to me if you're doing it with maybe a podcast and you put it on and you get that sense of being with people you like or people you're friends with.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:27

Like-minded.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:28

Yeah, like-minded, or just I think that's different than maybe viewing a TV show and relating to that too much.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:37

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:37

That seems like that to like fictional characters. Yeah, that seems a little more um I can't think of the right word. It just seems more concerning to me. Yeah. If you over-identify or reality testing.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:53

But I listen to podcasts and I'm like, this is yeah, totally hanging out with these people. Totally.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:58

And it really does feel like that. There's like a funny meme where like a little boy is like sitting cross-legged with a bowl of cereal next to like a billboard with other people eating cereal, and they're like, this is what it's like to listen to a podcast. Yeah. And I'm like, that is truly how I feel with all my podcasts. Like, we're cracking jokes together, or like even my clinical podcast, it's like we're just talking therapy, the four of us, you know, or whatever. And it's like, I'm not in the room. But I do that doesn't feel unhealthy to me. It does give me a sense of like connection in the world. I think it's connection.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:33

Yeah. I don't think it's weird. I think we we want connection, and sometimes it's not the people that are in our lives, yeah, right, maybe aren't always accessible like a podcast could be. So if we're feeling lonely, or if we're feeling like we want that connection, or even just a laugh or get a reprieve from something, I think it's I I don't know. I find it useful. I will throw on old episodes of how did this get made? Yeah. I because I love just hearing the banter. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:04

Yeah, it does feel like you're there and it's fun. Yeah, comedy podcasts do great for that. Yeah. Yeah. I will say, like, maybe there have been times in my life where like a parasocial relationship where I'll be like, I'm enjoying this so much, it's like, oh, am I avoiding going out with friends or something?

SPEAKER_03 1:13:24

Well, yeah, sure. There's that.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:26

That's probably worth sometimes me wondering. Like, I think the wisdom lies in like, can you try not to use this as a replacement for live connection? Yeah. I mean, maybe that's part of why I started a podcast, you know, like get in there, do the real thing. And I love that. But yeah, sometimes, or like I definitely, even when I'm was younger, I think there were times where like TV took the place of like going out and dating if I didn't really want to be vulnerable, or or even just socializing. Like it's easier to like be in Star's Hollow than like push myself at times, but never have I ever really like isolated in a serious way. So yeah, for me, it's really mostly by and large been wise. I think it's connecting. I think it can be wise. Yeah, totally. What do you think, Josh?

SPEAKER_03 1:14:20

I think it can be wise, yeah. I think like anything, it's like maybe not wise to become addicted to it to the point that it's like impinging on all your other needs, but yeah, I could be like, how wise is it for me to like have all my social needs filled by my wife? Yeah, and then I'm like very wise that I'm not going out. Yeah, I'm only going out with my wife.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:44

How wise is it to have all my social needs fulfilled by John Butts?

SPEAKER_01 1:14:48

Well, that's a wise decision, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:14:50

There are I fulfill so many needs. Talking in the tub, Bright Beige. I think it is interesting to think about when we consume more specifically, maybe podcasts, and is that limiting our opportunity to have real interaction? Like you're saying, like if we're always outside listening to a podcast walking around, yeah, does that limit you from more organic interaction? Or even if you listen to a podcast at work, are you limiting opportunities to uh again? We're all gonna do those things. Of course, we're gonna go for a walk and listen to a podcast, right? There's you know, fewer things that are as enjoyable as that. But yeah, I just if that's our always our go-to, we might be limiting possibilities for connection in a more organic uh holistic and also back and forth way because the podcast, there's no, you know, listening to it, you there's no back and forth.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:50

Yeah, yeah, and there's kind of no vulnerability, none.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:53

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:54

Yeah, that's a really good point. Like being conscious. You know, it almost aligns with that thing I've been talking about the past couple weeks. Like, do I like some of the things I like? Like, I do love listening to podcasts, but it's like if I do that for hours on end, sometimes maybe I would feel underfulfilled. Not unfulfilled, but like underfulfilled. So almost like, okay, maybe I do the hard thing of like being more vulnerable instead of listening. Actually, I'm doing this this week, instead of listening to a podcast about therapy and like other practitioners and what they do, I am Sunday going to a networking event by myself. So I think I I feel nervous about it for sure. I'm trying to like go to more of these. So I like it. Yeah. So it's like, okay, I'm gonna, I it would it be more enjoyable for me to spend like two hours vacuuming and listening to a podcast, or even like strolling if it's nice out. Of course, that would be more like pleasant and easy. But maybe I'll like make a friend or like get some referrals, or you're gonna be glad you went. I think I'm gonna be glad.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:09

I don't even need to know what happens. You're gonna be glad you went. Totally.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:14

So, yeah, I think it's like being aware of like not using it to replace other forms of predicting.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:21

Or even my commute's pretty short, and in that time, could I reach out and make a phone call instead of to somebody instead of just immediately my phone automatically, like our phones do, will just hook up and pick up right where I left off on whatever I was listening to. Yeah. And I don't even think about it, and then I'm driving and I'm back in the episode that I'm listening to. So I think I could be more mindful. Maybe it's not always wise to just that's my default, to maybe think about, oh, maybe is there somebody I could like call in this next 15 minutes or say hello to, or and and that could be a different type of connection that who knows what that would give me. So I think being more intentional for me about it. Again, I think it is useful to times we need that where we don't have to put a lot of energy in and just kind of feel like we're there, but yeah, I love that.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:15

That's a genius, like pushing yourself. Like, maybe even it's like, can I engage socially before I hit play on the podcast? Right, right.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:23

Call one person if they're available.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:26

I love that. There's like a celebrity trainer. Now, this is a little more like like a physical diet culture or whatever. Yeah, like a his name's Harley Pasternak. He's like trained a bunch of like celebrities. I forget who he likes trains now, but I heard him on a podcast. And he's very like, get if you get home from work, put your shoes on, your running shoes on, or whatever, start walking and call a friend and have social connection. Like, you don't have to like go in a dark room and do a spin class, like you know, get movement in also with like a sense of connection. I'm like, oh, I really love that. There was a period where I was doing that after I heard him say that, but I love that. Like on a ride, it's like do one, try one thing that's more vulnerable socially, and then if no one picks up, pop on the podcast, you know, there's gonna be plenty of times that happens, but yeah, I love that. I think that's really wise. Yeah, okay. So it's wise if you do it with awareness, intentionality, yeah. And you don't only have parasocial relationships, you also have social relationships, or have a listening party, yeah, totally like listen to a podcast with other people, take the yeah, take the earbuds out and share it together.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:42

Yeah, listen with people.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:44

Totally. Josh and I do that with our pod when we're texting. It's a party our mistakes. It's a party, yeah. It's a party, it's a listening party, it's a pod party, totally, or you could even like tell a friend about a podcast and then like debrief about the app, make a social connection out of it.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:00

That's true.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:01

Like people did for me with like some of those manifestation pods.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:04

Manifestation, great, yeah, great manifestation. Great top. I'm really hot right now. Are you hot? It's hot in here.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:11

Okay, it is quite hot. It's probably like some of these.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:14

I'm like sweating. You have a sweatshirt. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:17

Well, that's maybe a perfect to close it out.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:20

I can put more deodorant on.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:22

Okay. Well, where can people find you, Josh?

SPEAKER_03 1:20:24

Uh, butts. Jonathan. So B U T Z. Jonathan at gmail.com. What about you?

SPEAKER_02 1:20:29

Okay, amazing. You can find me at kkpsychsotherapy.com. If you want to work with me, you want to talk about the pod, give suggestions, anything, reach me there. And Joshy. Josh Starr.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:40

You can find me at joshbayerfilms.com. B-A-Y-E-R as in the aspirin. Um, JoshStar.com will be coming soon. Soon. And that'll be my vehicle for parasocial fun.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:57

A platform of parasocial fun. I love it. Okay, thanks everyone. We'll catch you next week. Yes. Bye.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:04

Thank you, blanket for it. Thank you, blanket forts.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:07

The Wisemind Happy Hour Podcast is for entertainment purposes only, not to be treated as medical advice. If you are struggling with your mental health, please seek medical attention or counseling.