THE INNER CRITIC

Criticism can be hard to hear...but what about the criticism coming from inside our own brains? We all have our own unique form of "inner critic." And while a hateful internal monologue can be a tough beast to tame, perhaps the first step is understanding why it exists. Maybe it wants to help us more than we think.

- music by blanket forts -

Transcript

Cold Open: Nick Cage And Ointment

SPEAKER_03 0:04

Welcome to Wise Mind Happy Hour. I'm John. And you are back for another episode.

SPEAKER_02 0:11

Yeah, you are back and we are back.

SPEAKER_03 0:13

We are back. We were just talking about ointments.

SPEAKER_02 0:16

Well, we also were talking about I'm thinking we should turn the mics on almost the second you get here.

SPEAKER_03 0:20

Oh, that's a good idea.

SPEAKER_02 0:22

Because we really do like, as you do catch up with the person that's your friend that you haven't seen in a week. And then suddenly Josh is like, should we be recording this? That's gonna be Josh's new middle name. Should we be recording this?

SPEAKER_03 0:35

You should just attach, just attach a mic to me the second I enter a space. Across the threshold.

SPEAKER_01 0:43

No get up.

SPEAKER_03 0:44

Just mic. Get in there. Just be up. Be up. No, the the be up on John. The icebreaker I shared that I encountered recently was favorite Nick Cage movie. Yeah. And it was interesting because some people said they couldn't think of a Nick Cage movie, which that even and of itself.

SPEAKER_02 1:02

Are they young?

SPEAKER_03 1:06

No.

SPEAKER_02 1:08

I like that match stickman movie. Match Sickman is great. Whoa. We could watch it for the pod because it's a demonstration of OCD.

SPEAKER_03 1:14

Severe OCD. Severe.

SPEAKER_02 1:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:17

Uh contamination, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:19

Extreme contamination OCD.

SPEAKER_03 1:21

That was in my top three. Do you like Sam Rockwell?

SPEAKER_02 1:24

If someone doesn't like Sam Rockwell, that's worrisome.

SPEAKER_03 1:27

I also really enjoy it's probably because I saw it in the theater. And there was swearing in it, a lot of violence. The Rock. I was a teenager, probably, when I saw that.

SPEAKER_02 1:39

Wait, The Rock was in it?

SPEAKER_03 1:41

No, it's called The Rock.

SPEAKER_02 1:42

Oh, oh.

SPEAKER_03 1:45

The Rock.

SPEAKER_02 1:46

Oh, The Rock with Sean Connery?

SPEAKER_03 1:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:48

And Nick Cage, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 1:49

Oh, yeah. He's the main character.

SPEAKER_02 1:53

Really? Why did I only remember Sean Connery?

SPEAKER_01 1:57

Yeah, I honestly am the same.

SPEAKER_02 1:59

Sean Connery, he's so memorable, isn't he?

SPEAKER_03 2:02

Uh for sure. He's iconic. He's James Bond. Yeah. And then what was my third one? We only did one, but I had to do a top three.

SPEAKER_02 2:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:10

Oh, and face off. It's just so over the top. Oh, yeah. Oh, totally. It's maximalist. Yeah. At its fine. John Moo, I think. Right. Directed that.

SPEAKER_02 2:23

Maybe Match Sigmund, but like what else is he in that I like? Moonstruck. Oh my god, I can't believe I didn't say Moonstruck. Obviously, it's Moonstruck. I've never seen Raising Arizona. Moonstruck is beyond. I guess.

SPEAKER_03 2:36

You should see Raising Arizona.

SPEAKER_02 2:37

And I'll see it, see that. That's great. Moonstruck and Match Sigma.

SPEAKER_03 2:40

That's a Cohen Brothers film, right? Yeah. Somebody also said National Treasure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:47

National. I was gonna call it like MapQuest. National Treasure.

SPEAKER_03 2:52

It was MapQuest on a garment.

SPEAKER_01 2:54

The movie. He's on a map. He literally goes on a map quest.

SPEAKER_03 2:58

And then somebody said gone in 60 seconds. You remember that one?

SPEAKER_02 3:01

Oh, of course. That that is a good one.

SPEAKER_03 3:03

Steals all the cars. Angelina Jolie.

SPEAKER_02 3:05

Angelina Jolie, yeah. We're all so tired. Why are we so tired? It's like spring.

SPEAKER_03 3:14

But it isn't. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know either. I don't really know. The weather's been kind of weird. And now it's getting cold again. It's gonna be like cool again tomorrow. Oh, really? Well, like 50s. Anyway. It's annoying. Welcome to the Wise My Dabby R. The Quiet Storm.

SPEAKER_02 3:33

Yeah, we do the whole ASMR.

SPEAKER_03 3:36

We're doing an ASMR episode of the Wise My Dabby R.

SPEAKER_02 3:41

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 3:43

You wanna you wanna maybe get some ointment?

SPEAKER_01 3:47

Take care of it?

SPEAKER_03 3:48

Fly in the ointment.

SPEAKER_01 3:50

Oh my god. I don't want to be the fly in the ointment. What's that? It's just a funny thing to say.

SPEAKER_02 3:57

Ointment? No, no, no. It's crazy that people like don't like the word moist and then nobody's talking about the word ointment. Ointment's funny. I I don't cringe at the word moist, do you?

SPEAKER_03 4:06

I don't have the reaction that people do to it either.

SPEAKER_02 4:09

I'm trying to think what word. I mean, ointment, maybe, but not even because it's like when I'm saying I can't like the you're like ointment. Ointment. It's like, well, it sounds like it's like onomonopoeia almost.

SPEAKER_03 4:23

Yeah, a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 4:24

Ointment. It's like making the noise that it makes on your fingers.

SPEAKER_03 4:27

Ointment.

SPEAKER_02 4:28

But it's like if I'm talking about ointment with someone, there's something serious. What are those words? The more you say it, the more it's ridiculous. Yeah. But yeah, it's like the dermatologist is like uh I talked with him about it on Friday.

SPEAKER_03 4:43

You talked about ointment?

SPEAKER_02 4:44

Yeah, he gave me ointment. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:46

And he said ointment?

SPEAKER_02 4:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:48

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 4:49

Well, because there's different versions of like a steroid cream, some are an ointment, and some are like more of a serum-y kind of consistency.

SPEAKER_03 4:58

There's serum, there's cream, there's ointment.

SPEAKER_02 5:00

Yeah, and there's lotion.

SPEAKER_03 5:05

Have we covered all of our bases?

SPEAKER_02 5:07

I can't believe we said that simultaneously, as Josh would say.

SPEAKER_03 5:12

Paste.

SPEAKER_02 5:13

Paste, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:14

Paste, though, is there is a thing, there is such a thing called butt paste for diaper rash.

SPEAKER_02 5:19

You're right. There is paste for diaper rash. Totally. And people put diaper rash on their face, too.

SPEAKER_03 5:25

Some people, that's a thing with like they put diaper rash on their face, or they put their please. People let's say don't put diaper rash on their face.

SPEAKER_02 5:33

I meant diaper cream. They put diaper cream in their face? For like contact or not contact, for like perioral dermatitis or whatever, people do that. Oh. It's like really de-inflammatory. It's zinc or whatever.

SPEAKER_03 5:46

It is zinc. Yeah, you're right. It is like that. Yeah. Somebody once said, I think, therefore I have no, somebody said, uh, is this true if you you can use in a pinch like toothpaste for if you have a blemish or something like that? Yeah. Because it dries it out. Is that what it is?

SPEAKER_02 6:05

It's like that can happen, but I think it's like almost like it causes more problems than it solves. Like it's there's like sugar in toothpaste. Or it's like artificial sugar.

SPEAKER_03 6:14

I just remember hearing that one time. Somebody said that, and I was like, really? That works.

SPEAKER_02 6:19

I it's like I think that's one of those old school like home remedies that like really isn't that good. There's too many good things out there for blemishes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:27

And toothpaste has evolved now.

SPEAKER_02 6:29

And if you're the kind of person who's getting a blemish so rarely, you don't even have anything in the cabinet to deal with it, it's like we probably could just let it be. Do you think they still make clericil? Yeah, well, they definitely do.

SPEAKER_03 6:40

They do?

SPEAKER_02 6:41

Yeah. Well, I shouldn't say definitely. I think. When I was young, they had it.

SPEAKER_03 6:45

Of course. When I was young, maybe it's one of the things you don't even register unless you're in puberty, basically, or your awkward high school years.

SPEAKER_02 6:54

Well, I mean, I'm still dealing with zits.

SPEAKER_03 6:57

I'm just saying we're all dealing with zits, but how much how much are you like pining over clerosol?

SPEAKER_02 7:02

No, I'm not thinking about clerosol very much at all.

SPEAKER_03 7:05

Noxema wipes.

SPEAKER_02 7:06

Yeah. Noxema was like when our parents were young, was the big thing.

SPEAKER_03 7:10

Yeah. We I remember my skin reacting really harshly to some form of noxema like face wash where I was like, what is in this? I got like all red.

SPEAKER_02 7:20

Yeah. It was probably um benzoyl peroxide. They make benzoyl peroxide washes, and I had like a 10% one once. Nobody really guided me on this. I was like red for like three days.

SPEAKER_03 7:31

I was red, it felt so dry.

SPEAKER_02 7:33

Yeah. So dry. I I mean that's how you deal with it.

SPEAKER_03 7:41

For me, I was allergic to it, basically. I don't think that was the intended purpose to look like a you put you like a fire out with your face.

SPEAKER_02 7:50

Right. Like it's literally like we will get rid of these zits by replacing them with burns.

SPEAKER_03 7:55

Yeah. Nobody's commenting on your zits anymore, just your cherry red face. Running from you altogether. You think you get the worst sunburn of your life.

SPEAKER_02 8:04

You're a lobster. Yeah, there are so many remedies where you're like, this is creating more problems than it is solving. And I mean, plastic surgery in general, I think these days for a lot of people is doing that. You know? It's like you don't have a wrinkle. Oint. Yeah, stick to ointments, stick to the topicals. Oint mint. Oint mint. The OI must be a because it's moisturizer ointment. It's like that must be like a root word.

SPEAKER_03 8:32

Yeah, I figured you would know the root of it.

SPEAKER_02 8:34

Let's see. Let's look it up because it's it's Kelly's a wordsmith. She's like, I'm into stuff like that.

SPEAKER_03 8:40

The genesis of an ointment.

SPEAKER_02 8:42

Okay, wait.

SPEAKER_03 8:43

It also just sounds old timey.

SPEAKER_02 8:45

I know. It I mean it, I think it is what they would. Oh, wait.

SPEAKER_03 8:50

Somebody coming into town with a a bunch of tonics that would help you, you know? To anoint.

SPEAKER_02 8:58

Oh, to anoint. To smear with oil.

SPEAKER_03 9:01

Oh, right. That's a part of Catholicism. You were I was raised Catholic. Yeah. Anointing of the sick. That's one of the seven sacraments, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 9:10

Yes, the anointing of the sick. Get on board. Did you guys do any of that?

SPEAKER_01 9:16

Anointing. No, we we just we just we just put our sick to bed. What are we doing with your time? Yeah. I was just hanging out with my mom. We were anointing sick people.

SPEAKER_02 9:24

We were anointing sick people.

SPEAKER_01 9:26

I was anointing my younger brother. We were embracing lepers.

SPEAKER_02 9:32

Oh Josh is like, we had moved on to ointment by then. We had moved on.

SPEAKER_03 9:37

Ointments. Um you know another thing that can't. Are you still looking up the no.

unknown 9:43

Great.

Tap Dance Joy And Weekend Catch-Up

SPEAKER_03 9:44

Another thing that we need to catch up on is it I had a great experience this weekend. Sarah had her tap dance recital this weekend.

SPEAKER_02 9:54

I didn't know she did tap dance.

SPEAKER_03 9:56

She does tap dance. That's so funny. She's been doing it for basically a year. And to see somebody you love so much do something that was it, it's totally her. She has been practicing but loves it. And it's so outside of just our day-to-day. It was like it was like such a I know. And she was up there and we uh got video of it, and I was sitting there with the boys, and it was just like a magical moment to see somebody outside of our just normal.

SPEAKER_02 10:37

Yeah, like performing and just performing. That's wonderful. I mean, dance is so amazing. It's amazing, it's just like joyful expression.

SPEAKER_03 10:45

Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 10:46

And has she made friends permit?

SPEAKER_03 10:48

Yeah, she on a text chain with all the community, all the tappers. All the tappers.

SPEAKER_02 10:54

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 10:55

I know.

SPEAKER_02 10:56

So that was looking for community. That is great. That's so fun. We we didn't do that much over

Moving, Packing, And Learning To Say No

SPEAKER_02 11:03

the weekend. Oh, snooze. I'm not sure. No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. What are you talking about? You I mean, we packed. We definitely packed it. My mom, shout out to my mom. She helped us with packing. You're getting going. She got us a lot of boxes.

SPEAKER_03 11:15

You have a for real tape dispenser thing.

SPEAKER_02 11:19

There are so many little like nicks in our floor from that thing.

SPEAKER_03 11:22

That thing is intense.

SPEAKER_02 11:24

Once you get the hang of it, it's good.

SPEAKER_03 11:26

It's like you put it on the edge, and then for those who aren't watching the video, we have this like almost like tape gun.

SPEAKER_02 11:32

Oh. And uh I like it. Yeah, we like it. It's my mom's. It's on Lend from my mom and Peter, my mom's partner Peter. Yeah, so we won't lose it. Um, but yeah, we've been packing up. They've been showing this apartment so much. It's really kind of cutting into our lives.

SPEAKER_03 11:53

Do they give you how much of a notice?

SPEAKER_02 11:56

Well, I think they're supposed to give at least 24 hours.

SPEAKER_03 11:59

I thought that was that's not what they do. Sometimes they do, but I mean so somebody could come in right now, they could call you and be like 10 minutes.

SPEAKER_02 12:07

Well, here's the deal. I've been saying no more than I've been saying yes. You know, the power of no.

SPEAKER_03 12:14

You you you have the ability to just say nope.

SPEAKER_02 12:18

I mean, I'm just like, and this is a thing for me where like when it comes to my clients and protecting their like confidentiality and the like sacredness of the session, like I feel all this empowerment to be like, no, that's not gonna work for me. Yeah, but it's like I I need to do that more in my own life with myself, you know. And there's probably people out there thinking, I don't think you have a problem with that who know me. But it's like there's areas I'm good at that, or even like saying no too much or something. But I think I need more of that really sense of just like, no, that that actually does not work. So yeah, that's I guess that's an interesting discovery that's happening from all this. But yeah, like today, she's like, Well, what about if we come at 115? And what time did they actually show up? Because I was out of the house.

SPEAKER_01 13:03

Oh, I can't remember at all.

SPEAKER_02 13:05

Okay. Just ejecting. We have to like kick Josh's bed, he's like falling asleep over there.

SPEAKER_03 13:17

So I have no idea when these people are walking through our home.

SPEAKER_02 13:20

Yeah. Well, because I when I was I was going to get blood work today, and the um person I like said if they said they were coming at 1 15, and I'm sitting in the waiting room for the blood work, and it's like 1 36, and she's like, I'm so sorry, we're on our way. And I'm like, Whoa, 20 minutes late. 20 minutes late, and this is how I responded. I'm curious what you think. I said, like, you know, luckily today that's okay, and my husband is home to let you guys in. Kind of suggesting like there would be a day this would not be okay, and I would turn you away at the door. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:52

I think that's a fair response.

SPEAKER_02 13:54

Seem like reassurance seeking now.

SPEAKER_03 13:56

I I don't need to do that, but I think that's a totally fair response.

SPEAKER_02 14:00

Because it was true. It was like you can come today at two.

SPEAKER_03 14:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:04

And I did tell her that I didn't have someone again until 3:30.

SPEAKER_03 14:07

I think it's totally valid to say I work from home. So the times I give you are the times I give you. Right.

SPEAKER_02 14:13

And I'm not like looking at spreadsheets, I'm on confidential calls with patients.

SPEAKER_03 14:18

And even if you were just looking at spreadsheets.

SPEAKER_02 14:20

Yeah, I can have that boundary. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:23

If you're if you're looking at or not, it's yeah, I think that's a fair response. Yeah, totally. So see you later, prospective home dwellers.

SPEAKER_02 14:34

Well, then it's also like, I I don't know if they can't rent this place. They're struggling, maybe.

SPEAKER_03 14:40

You know, maybe they see all of our podcast stuff, and they're like, we can't possibly live up to the the standard of the podcast.

SPEAKER_02 14:49

Yeah. Dwelling. So we gotta go.

SPEAKER_03 14:53

We gotta go.

SPEAKER_02 14:55

Yeah, I don't know what's going on there. Like, I I mean, if it really keeps going on for much longer, maybe I'll just be like, What's the story?

SPEAKER_03 15:02

Morning glory.

SPEAKER_02 15:03

Yeah, yeah. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 15:07

I'll be here next time. I'll sell it.

SPEAKER_02 15:11

Well, then I had to have the mind where I'm like, what do I have to do to get this place sold so I don't have to do this anymore?

SPEAKER_01 15:16

And let me show you over here.

SPEAKER_02 15:18

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:19

We could like pass out shrimp, or we could have your kids do it.

SPEAKER_02 15:23

Remember when they went in our bathroom? They're like, This is the best bathroom I've ever been in.

SPEAKER_03 15:26

They would sell anything. Yeah, they're excited about most things. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:30

Or my niece, I think we told you this, or maybe we set it on the pod. My niece, like when she came, was looking all around, and I was like, Here's the bathroom. She's like, We have a bathroom. Like, we we have a kitchen. I have a kitchen at my house. I have one of these. It's so cute. I can't take it.

SPEAKER_03 15:48

They would sell it. Yeah. Oh, totally.

SPEAKER_02 15:51

But yeah, so I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 15:53

I think it's just low energy right now in in Chicago. Yeah. I'm feeling it, you're feeling it. Yeah, I'm definitely feeling it.

SPEAKER_02 16:02

It's like, it's not even like depressed energy, it's like tired.

SPEAKER_03 16:06

It's low energy. Yeah. I don't know.

Movie Talk: Odyssey Rumors And Nolan Love

SPEAKER_03 16:09

Have you guys seen The Odyssey yet?

SPEAKER_02 16:11

No. Is it out?

SPEAKER_03 16:13

Neither have I. I just want to, I just want our listeners to know that.

SPEAKER_02 16:18

We have not seen the Odyssey.

SPEAKER_03 16:19

Nobody's seen it in this room.

SPEAKER_02 16:21

No.

SPEAKER_03 16:21

But there are articles about it, surprisingly. And you can read that. You can read those articles and have an opinion about an article you read. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:31

That doesn't mean you have comments.

SPEAKER_03 16:32

That doesn't mean you're reviewing the movie, though.

SPEAKER_02 16:34

Right. Some comments that we're reviewing a movie we haven't seen, but we weren't reviewing the movie. We were reviewing the article.

SPEAKER_03 16:40

Wink wink. About the Odyssey.

SPEAKER_02 16:42

Yeah. I do want to see it. I imagine it comes out in the I can't wait to see it. Like high summer, like July.

SPEAKER_03 16:48

I'm excited to see it.

SPEAKER_02 16:49

Do you know when it comes out?

SPEAKER_03 16:50

Let me look. IMAX probably. I mean, of course. Wasn't the whole movie filmed in IMAX? Or some sort of like 3D cameras thing? Something. The whole movie was I didn't see it. So Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:04

Yeah, you must not be talking about what it was.

SPEAKER_03 17:07

Watch out. Wanna guess?

SPEAKER_00 17:09

May May. No. June 21st. Kelly's closer. July 6th. Cl closer? 10th? Closer. Colder? 17th.

SPEAKER_01 17:26

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 17:28

Why did I knew July? I just knew it.

SPEAKER_01 17:30

You were like the that's like exactly the middle of summer. That was kind of what you said initially.

SPEAKER_03 17:34

I'm gonna go for my birthday then. That's gonna be my birthday gift to myself, maybe.

SPEAKER_01 17:39

Happy birthday.

SPEAKER_03 17:39

You're gonna go by yourself. Probably. My family's not gonna want to go to that. I mean, my it's not gonna be appropriate for my kids, and Sarah definitely won't want to see that.

SPEAKER_02 17:47

She won't, she doesn't like a Christopher Nolan movie?

SPEAKER_03 17:49

Like we saw in we saw Inception in the theater. Yeah. Liked that. Okay. I think it's a little serious and dark and yeah. Not a fan. Not a fan. She did watch with me The Dark Knight.

SPEAKER_02 18:04

Yeah, great, great movie.

SPEAKER_03 18:07

It's just not her type of movie.

SPEAKER_02 18:08

Okay, fair enough. I um really love those Christopher Nolan movies. I think he's really I never saw um Interstellar, and I also never saw Interstellar's really good.

SPEAKER_03 18:18

Tenant.

SPEAKER_02 18:19

Tenant.

SPEAKER_03 18:20

That's tenant? I don't think I really understood what was going on in that movie.

SPEAKER_02 18:24

I don't think anyone did.

SPEAKER_01 18:26

Isn't that the trailer is just like tenant?

SPEAKER_03 18:30

It's really tough.

SPEAKER_02 18:33

Yeah. Yeah, I've heard it's like pretty hard to find.

SPEAKER_03 18:36

I remember watching that during the pandemic, and then I watched it again. And I think I sent a text to my uncle and was like, Do you see this movie? And he was he said, Yeah. And then I said, I'm I'm just missing whatever is going on.

SPEAKER_04 18:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:54

I don't know what it is. I was like, what am I missing? That and he was just like, Don't think too much about it. It's confusing, it's long.

SPEAKER_04 19:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:02

Tried to do a little bit too much in certain ways. Yeah. Visually, his movies were amazing.

SPEAKER_02 19:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:08

Denzel Washington's son is in that.

SPEAKER_02 19:10

Yes. And he is so handsome.

SPEAKER_03 19:14

He's really good looking. He's in a movie. What uh what I think it's a Spike Lee movie. What's the one where he infiltrates the vis-a-vis the phone, the Ku Klux Klan?

SPEAKER_02 19:31

Sorry about that.

SPEAKER_03 19:33

No. What is it like Black Klansman or something?

SPEAKER_02 19:36

Oh yes, Adam Wisover is in it.

SPEAKER_03 19:38

Yeah, wasn't it the Washington? I think he's in it. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:41

I never saw that.

SPEAKER_03 19:43

Topher Grace, I think, is is the David Koresh, right? Yeah, he's like the KKK guy.

SPEAKER_02 19:48

Yeah. Wait, did I get that right? David Kresh.

SPEAKER_01 19:51

David Duke?

SPEAKER_03 19:52

David Duke. It's not David Koresh. David Koresh was the guy.

SPEAKER_02 19:58

David Duke, that's right.

SPEAKER_03 20:00

Right. Jeez. Anyway.

SPEAKER_02 20:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 20:03

What are we talking about? Christopher Nolan. Oddyssey.

SPEAKER_02 20:07

Christopher Nolan, yeah. Yes. You know, he's not like a Yorgo Slanthemos who's like really taken into crazy ideas, like who did um poor things in uh Begonia? Begonia. You know, he's a little more of like a movie movie guy, but but he's doing it the best of the movie movies.

SPEAKER_01 20:30

Byron Venture?

SPEAKER_02 20:32

I don't think Venture's doing movie movies. I think he's doing his own thing. That's probably why I like him more.

SPEAKER_01 20:38

Byron Spielberg?

SPEAKER_02 20:39

I would put him with Spielberg. Like I would categorize them where they're like, they're not doing anything that's gonna make you like clutch your pearls. You know? Venture, it's like you can't like eat while you're watching one of his movies. You know, it's like it's gonna make your skin crawl a little. Yeah, because of all the maggots. Was that in one of them?

SPEAKER_01 21:01

I feel like seven might have maggots.

SPEAKER_02 21:03

Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_01 21:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:05

Yeah, like stuff where you're like, oh, this like my there's a curdling in my stomach as I watch this. Like Christopher Nolan, it's more just like that's what you're doing, the whole movie.

SPEAKER_03 21:15

I think for years I thought the movie seven took place in New York.

SPEAKER_02 21:18

Where does it take place?

SPEAKER_03 21:20

LA.

SPEAKER_02 21:21

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 21:22

It feels like New York. I think that was kind of his thing, was there's this whole part of LA, this underbelly type of LA that he wanted to this idea that it's seedy and yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:38

There's like I just thought it was New York the whole time. Yeah, yeah, you really do associate that like kind of like dark seedy stuff with New York, especially New York of a certain time, right?

SPEAKER_03 21:48

A certain era. Right. Yeah, like the nineties. Like you don't think of an LA cop movie Yeah, like seven. That's not what you're thinking.

SPEAKER_02 21:56

Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:58

That's not what I'm thinking.

SPEAKER_02 22:00

No. Well, there was the whole like Hollywood sheen to it all, you know. Whereas like there's a whole other portion of LA that is a little kind of like grimy, grimy, yeah. Yeah, not even in a bad way, like more of an ointment.

SPEAKER_03 22:15

More of a grimy ointment. Yeah. Oh man, we could talk about film for

What The Inner Critic Sounds Like

SPEAKER_03 22:21

for days.

SPEAKER_02 22:21

We could. We could, and we will.

SPEAKER_03 22:23

Well, speaking of film and critics, let's talk about the inner critic.

SPEAKER_02 22:27

Yeah, film criticism. What a segue.

SPEAKER_03 22:30

What a segue.

SPEAKER_02 22:31

What a segue. Yeah, we're gonna talk today about the inner critic. Or I recently heard someone refer to it as the persecutor protector. Wow. You know, which is an interesting thought or way to label it. Yeah, do you like inner critic as a label? Or sorry, I cut you out.

SPEAKER_03 22:49

No, no, no. I was just gonna say, yeah, what how would we define inner critic?

SPEAKER_02 22:53

Yeah, it's like I'm even thinking about when I talk about this with clients, do I use that term? I uh there was probably a time where I used it more. I think I say I think I say critical part because language. I say like there's like a critical part or judgmental part.

SPEAKER_03 23:12

Would we conceptualize it as the inner monologue that goes on? Yeah. That is self-evaluative, self-critical, very negative.

SPEAKER_02 23:27

Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's a good point. That it can really vary how hostile and like negative it is. Because for some people it is, I imagine, and in my experience, like it can be a part that judges to an extent. And for some people, it is so harsh.

SPEAKER_03 23:47

And I think that some people do use it as fuel and motivation to maybe change or excel, or yeah. We've talked about self-compassion before in people's hang ups with self-compassion, which is fair. I think a lot of times people will say, well, if I'm nice to myself, I'll let myself get away with anything. And so I need to be critical of myself. I don't know if that's completely separate from the inner critic or if we need to make that separation. Maybe it's just all the same, that kind of negative lens that we look at ourselves through. Um, but it can be very shaming, damaging.

SPEAKER_02 24:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:29

This could be the voice of the programming that we've received, right? The messages that we've received growing up and internalized as our core beliefs.

SPEAKER_02 24:40

I think this part when it shows up in me, and uh I have a lot of clients like this too, where it it doesn't actually use like words. Like, I don't really notice myself having like an inner monologue that's negative. Really not that, but the critic is there, but it's like it's more really like for the felt sense of like shame. Okay. This like almost like wave of energy that comes up. I mean, I have definitely said the words like, oh, you're such an idiot. But honestly, if I'm getting to the point where there's words, I'm sort of like loose with it, and like I feel like there might be even a humor component.

SPEAKER_03 25:19

And you don't take it as seriously, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:20

But I think there is a serious version that is it goes past words, and there's like this twisting in the gut of like I'm bad. Of course, this is so related to perfectionism for a lot of people. Do better, be perfect. I don't really have a be perfect voice.

SPEAKER_03 25:39

Yeah, I don't either.

SPEAKER_02 25:40

Mine almost sometimes is like a hateful part. It can go that big and like intense. But yeah, I don't have the everyday like, well, you need to be perfect at this thing. Like that's never really been my thing. But what as I'm thinking about it, you know, what's interesting is like my older brother very much growing up had that. I associated like that perfectionism with him, and like I was so different, sure, that it maybe just didn't develop. But it'll come up more in like sometimes in like my looks or like beauty practices, like you're not good enough.

SPEAKER_03 26:19

Yeah, I mean, there might be an interesting layer too of birth order if people you know, and just family systems, right? The pressure of being a first, yes, um, and having younger siblings, so that might be imposed by parents, self, both of having to whether you're knowingly thinking this or not, but having to model, setting an example, yeah, you know, overachieving, overperforming.

Birth Order And Eldest Daughter Plight

SPEAKER_03 26:46

Totally a lot of firstborns, quote unquote, will report that experience.

SPEAKER_02 26:51

Yeah. Have you heard people talking about this? Is kind of like an internet thing, like this like eldest daughter plight.

SPEAKER_03 26:58

I haven't heard that. No.

SPEAKER_02 27:00

I've been hearing it a lot. It's funny because like I'm not as dialed into the discourse on it, which shows how narcissistic I can be because I'm not an eldest daughter. You're not an oldest daughter's daughter. You don't like beans soup. I'm like, it's not really a thing. Yeah. No, but it is a thing. But like I have more than one client who is an eldest daughter and has brought this up. Cause there's like this unique pressure, and this is related to the inner critic, of an eldest and of women. Okay. You know, in the combination, I think can be a really heavy burden. You know, like the the pressure on a daughter or any female identifying person to care for those around them and to self-sacrifice, and then the eldest child to be this model, this like a virtuous action and achievement to like guide the way for everyone.

SPEAKER_03 27:53

And by eldest daughter, you're saying you're meaning firstborn.

SPEAKER_02 27:56

Firstborn child that's a daughter, right?

SPEAKER_03 27:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 27:59

Yeah. I think it has to be a firstborn child who is a daughter who identifies as a female.

SPEAKER_03 28:04

Not like you have five siblings, you were secondborn, but you're the eldest daughter of.

SPEAKER_02 28:11

I don't think so. I think the birth order itself is.

SPEAKER_03 28:14

If you have to be first, right. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 28:16

Yeah, because I really, when I hear about the discussion around it, I'm I I don't relate to it. I I am just a middle child. Like, even though I'm the only daughter, I'm definitely a middle child. Which, like middle daughters, we have our own, our own. Oh, yeah. Because no one expected much out of us and except to care for everybody else. You know, you can't really shine too much, and you know, but you also have to like fill in all the gaps and mediate all the things.

SPEAKER_03 28:44

Well, and you're in the middle, right? You're not the baby, yeah. A lot of attention, and you're not the oldest, the overachiever, yeah, exceller, the one who's doing and who's doing everything first.

SPEAKER_02 28:54

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:56

So there's a lot of lostness probably to that experience. Okay. I wouldn't know, but I know my mother had two brothers like you, and she was in the middle. She was in the middle.

SPEAKER_04 29:07

Her mom and I should get called.

SPEAKER_03 29:09

Yeah. And so was Sarah's mom, actually, as well. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 29:12

I mean, I I I'm learning more and more like in as I explore my self in life and therapy. Like, it is a it's a tough role to be in the middle. Of course, now I'm making this about me. But the eldest child. Let's do it. Like the inner critic. The inner critic, like, I think is there's a big critical part that says, like, be perfect and also like don't kind of give it all away. You know, be perfect so that others around you can benefit from your perfectness. Like, you're less celebrated than an eldest son for sure.

SPEAKER_03 29:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:47

My therapist for a long time, I think I told you this when I was seeing Melissa. She told this story where, like, there was a mom whose daughter, it's like a famous like joke or whatever, where the mom whose daughter was like gonna be uh inaugurated as the first female president, and the daughter's friend was standing next to the mom off to the side of the stage and saying, like, you know, to the mom, can you believe this? Like it's something so exciting. And the mom turns to the friend and says, Have you heard about my son, the doctor? Oh, and I was like, Oh my god. So also I have a brother that's a doctor. Shots of the heart. But it's like, you know, like kind of this idea that like in in our society, like obviously the patriarchy is alive. Well, of course, more than ever. So that pressure. And I think the inner critical voice is like, be perfect and don't even like you don't get to even relev revel in um your achievements.

SPEAKER_03 30:41

The achievement, you know, what you what you've done and your you what you the space you've taken up. Yeah. It's an afterthought.

SPEAKER_02 30:47

Yeah. Be perfect and disappear.

SPEAKER_03 30:49

Like, yeah, be perfect and and don't yeah, make noise. Don't yeah, yeah, man.

SPEAKER_02 30:56

Yeah, and of course, an inner critic can be so like so loud and also complex in that case.

SPEAKER_03 31:01

Yeah, well, I was wondering if I feel like my inner critic isn't necessarily super negative. I feel like my inner critic almost acts sometimes as like my reason-giving friend that's looking out for me. Like, no, no, no, like don't do that thing. You know you're not gonna be good at it, but that's okay. What we got going on here is great. Like, don't so interesting.

SPEAKER_02 31:26

It's like connected to another part.

SPEAKER_03 31:28

Is that yeah? So is that an inner critic? Because it doesn't, I mean, of course, I'm discouraging voice. Of course, I'm human, and there are things where I think about it and I'm like, God, why did I do that? That was like the dumbest thing. I can't believe I made that mistake. Or and it comes up a lot with parenting. I feel like I've gotten tougher skin with the parenting and and being able to like know I got, you know, I can make it right. I can, you know, I've done a lot of work there, but I feel like looking forward, especially like looking forward in my life of like things I want to do, or I feel like it's a little bit softer and more excuse-making type of critic.

SPEAKER_02 32:05

Interesting. Well, it's like the parts can become so clever.

SPEAKER_03 32:10

Right. Like, you know, but is that a critic, or is that just a part of me that's just trying to make excuses and give reasons why I shouldn't do something that's uncomfortable or tell me again, what does it sound like? It's usually it usually starts as a thought of a deficiency almost, like, oh well, that's too much work, or you're you wouldn't be prepared enough to do that. And then it's like the trailer to that is usually, but it's but that's fine. Like you don't have to, you know, to soothe the burn. It's the ointment.

SPEAKER_02 32:43

And honestly, I I it's the ointment. I'm gonna go ahead and say that this is a clever part that you know, you've evolved so much, you're a therapist. You would not be listening to a concrete black and white harsh inner critic.

SPEAKER_03 33:00

Right.

SPEAKER_02 33:00

You're too evolved for that. I'm I'm like this too, where mine doesn't even have a voice, it's like waves of energy in the body. I think it's like this part is it's like almost holding a dialectic a little bit. You know, you can't do this, and that's okay.

SPEAKER_03 33:16

And that's fine because what we got going's great.

SPEAKER_02 33:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:19

Enjoy what you're doing now.

SPEAKER_02 33:21

And what do you notice? Do you kind of agree sometimes?

SPEAKER_03 33:24

Well, yeah, but yeah, I don't think that agreement means that it's right. I think the agreement is an a control or escape. It's just a way to not have to put more effort into thinking about, well, hold on a second.

SPEAKER_02 33:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:38

I can put in effort or I can. It's it usually starts with something that I'm my critics telling me I'm not capable of.

SPEAKER_02 33:47

Yeah. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 33:48

But then it's like, again, it it comes back to, but it's okay.

SPEAKER_02 33:52

Yeah. Yeah, mine sounds like that sometimes too.

SPEAKER_03 33:56

You don't want to, you're not into that anyway. Or here's all the reasons why you wouldn't want to do that.

SPEAKER_02 34:01

Yeah, it's not authentic.

SPEAKER_03 34:03

It's not really, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:04

Or well, and it sounds like you're saying like your inner critic is pretty attached to a dismissive part.

SPEAKER_03 34:12

That's not to say that there aren't moments or days or weeks where I do have the experience of the thoughts being very judgmental of myself and and negative and self-evaluative. It's not a constant, though. A lot of people that I see, and probably that you see, it's it's like a constant hum of just berating themselves.

SPEAKER_02 34:36

Totally.

SPEAKER_03 34:37

This isn't like a break or anything. I just don't experience it like that as a constant. It is a little bit harder for me to identify at times. Yeah. There are seasons where it's constant, but then when it's not, I have to be really aware of because I think it's just more, it's just different. Yeah. It's not super harsh, it's not super critical, it's moving me in ways that maybe if I'm not thinking about it, it's not allowing me to grow or push myself.

SPEAKER_02 35:07

A little more of a go-to for me is avoidance to feel regulated rather than criticism. But those can go together too. But yeah, it's this like part of us that kind of attacks and persecutes as a form of protection. So let's think about I'm pointing to my notebook. Let's think about I like the notes. What like that protection and kind of like the benefits of it, or even sort of like utility?

Why The Critic Feels Protective

SPEAKER_02 35:37

Utility of it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:39

I think people do report that it it will at times, I guess if you wanted to put it this way, keep people on the straight and narrow. Like it is a way to remind you of the mistakes you've made. Yeah. It is a way, I'm not saying it's a healthy way, yeah, to berade yourself. It is a way, though, if people are shaming themselves to, and these are the people that push back on a lot of the Brene Brown stuff of shame doesn't have any utility to it. And it's like shame though, when people experience it, and I'm not saying we want to like cultivate shame, but when people experience it, it does maybe allow you to say, I don't want to do that thing again.

SPEAKER_02 36:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:15

Right. Or so I think that critic can help people maybe make choices that are different than choices they've had or they've made in the past. Yeah. And I think it does act as a motivator for some people.

SPEAKER_02 36:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:30

Get up, get moving, do the thing. Yeah. At least I'm doing the thing.

SPEAKER_02 36:34

Yeah, like it's a motivating force. I hear people, or even the part itself, like fearing that someone might do nothing without an inner critical voice.

SPEAKER_03 36:47

Yeah, that we just rot away or totally. Or the the other thing is the indulgent piece. We talk about that a lot. If they were so kind to themselves all the time, it would lead to this indulgent, hedonistic, yeah, only pleasure seeking, which that never really always sounds a little bit ridiculous to me. Yeah. Um, I mean, it's valid. I'm not, I don't like, it's not ridiculous in the way where I'm like, what are you talking about? But I just don't think people would really allow themselves to go there more often than not.

SPEAKER_02 37:18

I often sense if someone is fearful of that, that if I'm not critical, if this part softens, then I'll just indulge. I look a little bit for like where have you been criticized for indulging, or where have you been maybe given messaging that you're not allowed to relax or you're not allowed to enjoy yourself. There was always like a sense of get up and do things and be productive, and you know, I'm breaking my neck over here, and you're playing in the backyard or whatever. And yeah, like I because I think that the opposite of that criticism isn't really indulgence. Right. You know, I don't think it is, but no, yeah. I almost think they're like separate, you know, things and the opposite, which we'll get into, of that criticism is like a different tone and energy towards self in communication.

SPEAKER_03 38:19

Do you think the benefit of it is it's just messaging that people are familiar with and that they know?

SPEAKER_02 38:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:28

Like criticism. Yeah, like the criticism. And sometimes people, I'm curious your take on this when they personify it to get some distance from it, like give it a name or their inner critic, or I remember one CEU I went to where a social worker had actually named her inner critic and thought of her inner critic as her grandmother. Interesting. And she was saying how some of the messages that her critic would tell her were literally messages she received from her grandmother. And at the same time, she wanted to hold this ability to have compassion for her critic and that it's there for a reason, and that the critic, much like her grandmother, went through a lot and was only capable of certain things. And some of the messaging was not because she was trying to be mean, but that was just her way of communicating things. And so I think it was her take on it that if I could have some compassion for this critic, if I could, if I wasn't just always fighting with it, yeah, that I might be able to kind of change and personify, change my relationship to it.

SPEAKER_02 39:37

And her grandmother had passed, obviously, but that is so what do you think about?

SPEAKER_03 39:43

I love the idea of not being so combative with your inner critic. Totally.

SPEAKER_02 39:48

I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 39:49

And really, really being curious about the purpose. And I'm glad we're talking about you know, what is the benefit of having it? I think that's really hard for people to even consider. Yeah, I think that's important though, that it's not just like our brain, it's not there to make us miserable.

SPEAKER_02 40:05

Right.

SPEAKER_03 40:06

It's not giving us the thoughts to make us so to suffer all the time. Yeah. This might be information if we can sit in that a little bit longer. I think personifying it though to somebody that you've you know or that you had experiences with, I don't know how I feel about that.

SPEAKER_02 40:24

I know. Same. Like, I'm I'm a little bit unsure. Well, not that I I really don't know. Because like, if she I guess I would ask if that person were my client, I would really explore the effect of that they're noticing in their own like somatic system. Because I I've been reading and hearing about this kind of idea of like forgiving a perpetrator being a pretty complicated, sometimes problematic thing to forgive a perpetrator, because the pain and trauma you're left with, like to heal that, to to really contain that and and grow beyond it. You you do kind of have to notice like if someone did something that was not okay to separate yourself from it. Like that's an essential part of it. And now if if there's actual repair with her and grandmother, that's a different, but yeah, I don't know enough.

SPEAKER_03 41:23

I didn't know enough about it.

SPEAKER_02 41:25

I think it's and I think so much of like what's left is like the way our internal system has adapted to what happened to us. So I almost think like making the part someone else, I would wonder if someone finds that helpful, I would go with it. And I don't, I don't think for me that would yeah, usually people personify by just giving it a name.

SPEAKER_03 41:47

Yeah, totally just a benign kind of name. Yeah. But anyway, I I that I kind of went on a tangent there, but I think for the benefit of buying into more critical thoughts, just a byproduct of these are the thoughts I've always had, or these are the thoughts that I've been programmed to think about the world. And so having uh thoughts outside of that would be really uncomfortable for us. Yeah, totally. Which I guess isn't a benefit necessarily. I mean, I guess it kind of is, but you know, if we just have these thoughts on loop and it's constant, it's it's a lot of work to challenge them or to change them. And so definitely um we can't get rid of them. Yeah, at least it's what I know. Yeah. So maybe the benefit is it let's less effortful to change that relationship with the critic.

SPEAKER_02 42:31

And you know, it's protecting a real pain.

SPEAKER_03 42:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:35

I can actually get really critical around like things I totally don't control, like stuff I've dealt with with my health. Like I can be really not kind to myself around that and feel like I'm not good enough if I'm struggling in that way. And if I really like let that part go and that part steps back, I have to like in a moment like be vulnerable. Like in a literal, I that word is so overused, I know, but like truly be in a moment be sick, be struggling with my fertility, be whatever. Like, I actually have to be going through that thing that I really truly don't control. And the vulnerability of that is so scary that the inner critic's like, I'll take care of that for you. I will make this your fault and thus in your control. And you you can battle yourself instead of like look out at the vast ocean of the universe and like realize like I don't have power in so many spaces here. And I have to like grieve something or let go of something and I totally get it. I totally get the moments I or anyone else like let the inner critic interrupt that pain and give you, you know, award you some control back. The mirage of control. You know, like I'll I'll interject grandma and then we'll battle each other and that'll be more contained. She's this big other who's an adult and scary. It's a tricky thing.

How Self-Criticism Shrinks Your Life

SPEAKER_02 44:13

But maybe this is actually a good segue into the cons of the inner criticism, which maybe to some people seem obvious.

SPEAKER_03 44:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:20

But what do you notice?

SPEAKER_03 44:22

Certainly the idea that we're attacking ourselves. I mean, we're we're inadvertently sending ourselves into more distress by attacking ourselves. And so, you know, and that makes us just shut down, isolate, kind of shrinks, right? It closes us versus makes it more expansive experience.

SPEAKER_02 44:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:41

And limits us.

SPEAKER_02 44:43

And limits us.

SPEAKER_03 44:44

From growth potential opportunities.

SPEAKER_02 44:48

Because you know, it's like you may avoid the pain or the like openness and risk of running into like a grandma voice in the world. But like then that becomes all you're doing is avoiding a pain.

SPEAKER_03 45:02

And then and then people hedge their bets where then they don't even Yeah. You don't even have any evidence of having tried that thing or know what that thing is. You might immediately just kind of hedge your bets and be like, I mean, I can't do that, right? Totally. Almost the learned helplessness.

SPEAKER_02 45:18

Totally. Well, yeah, that this actually, this woman whose book is right next to me, who is a psychoanalyst, she talks a lot about that living out those old frames prevents us from having a creative life. You know, like trying to avoid that pain with the inner critic and find perfection so that you're not vulnerable. It makes your world so small and not creative. Yeah. And it's like reduced to nothing. And what that quote, I forget who it is attributed to of like the more you try to control your life, the less and less life there is to control. It becomes so small and mundane, and there is a protection there, and there's a a shrinking of like the soul, I would say. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:07

Which maybe seems like an exaggeration, but no, I think you've and then you've, you know, if we're bringing in fusion, you you're viewing the whole world through that, then.

SPEAKER_02 46:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:17

It doesn't even need to be a constant hum if you kind of get used to it so much or acting from those thoughts, they're your critical thoughts, then that's that starts to become muscle memory.

SPEAKER_02 46:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:30

So it doesn't even need to be that harsh or loud anymore. That's just how that's your reaction. That turns into a little bit of your reality. Yeah. So I mean, I think the cons far are, you know, we're never going to get rid of our critics, but yeah, just continuing the same relationship with it really can be detrimental to certainly our mental health, but also physical health.

SPEAKER_02 46:53

Yeah. Yes. Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_03 46:55

You know, intellectual, you know, opportunities, just financial opportunity. I mean, you name it. Totally. Right.

SPEAKER_02 47:02

Well,

Skills To Unhook From The Critic

SPEAKER_02 47:03

okay. So now let's look at like when we come across this like with clients or even in our own lives, like, how does one deal with this when you're aware, which I really think everybody has an inner critic somewhere?

SPEAKER_03 47:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:17

A persecuting part is part of the human experience. So yeah, like in the group space, even or anywhere.

SPEAKER_03 47:25

Yes. I like certainly to have people notice it, so diffuse from it. Yes. That mindful not even quick to challenge the critic. Um, so that mindful ability to say, okay, I'm noticing, I'm having this thought, or I'm noticing my critic saying this.

SPEAKER_02 47:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:48

And then putting whatever thought you're having out there as a way to, if you can notice that you're having that thought, you can have other thoughts. You're not treating it as fact or wise, or even anything you need to pay that much attention to, or even important. So I really try to slow people down when it comes up.

SPEAKER_02 48:08

That can be so much of the work.

SPEAKER_03 48:10

Just no, it is because it's in real time, a constant us noticing, saying, okay, I was just gonna, you know, interrupting somebody, pausing them.

SPEAKER_02 48:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:22

Did you notice, you know, when you said that, what were you what was coming up?

SPEAKER_02 48:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:26

And that can get tedious at times. So useful though, because even the more times you do it, that in and of itself is an experiential exercise for the patient to see how often they're criticizing themselves.

SPEAKER_00 48:37

Totally.

SPEAKER_03 48:38

So that's like even a lived, God, this is annoying. And it's like, well, your critic is annoying too, because it's interrupting you every single yeah, it's there, right?

SPEAKER_02 48:48

So and it's so much more adaptive for the client to be annoyed with you.

SPEAKER_03 48:53

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, and that's okay. That's what's coming up, right? And totally.

SPEAKER_02 48:58

Um the second you get that space and observe the part, the inner critic, the wise mind is online. So, like that is like almost 90% of the way to really notice and without judgment, look at that part. You know, so many people like their inner critic will say it is because you are not good enough. You are lazy or whatever. And that belief will be there. And like, I think more often I'll notice in my clients, like that is an unhappiness that needs to be witnessed and honored and responded to compassionately to self rather than well, you would like this if you were better. It's more like this job isn't enough for you. You know, and like there's a pain there that's really vulnerable, but like this thing has failed me, this parent has failed me, this whatever. You know, like it can be more tolerable to put it on self. Yeah. But once they're in that noticing place, I will like see if we can find that like appreciation and compassion for the part. If they don't have it, I'll I'll honor that with them and and give that some space. And then look at like, is there any part of this you appreciate? And I think sometimes a key can be, and I do this a lot in my own therapy or with myself, you know, like if this part wasn't there, what about that might be scary? You know, like if you didn't criticize yourself after you leave, you know, lunch with your grandparents, you know, what might be painful about that? And you know, it might be like realizing like I have these pretty toxic grandparents that say really awful things, you know, or like I can't control what people think of me. You know, there's usually like a reality there that is genuinely scary and painful, and that can help a person really feel appreciation for the critic. Yeah, and the appreciation isn't condoning, it isn't like we're definitely gonna just whatever. It's more like let's be together with this part. And can you ask it to relax? And if it doesn't, it's a lot of work of like learning what it needs in order to do that, if it can tell you you know, like being humble to like listening and kind of meditatively to your system. But what might the part need from you? And a lot of times the part needs to know like that you can handle this. And you, your literal wise mind can say that if you feel that sense, right? And if you don't, that can be work, that could be like resource building like, what would you need to handle? Like a really hostile grandmother, you know. Like, what do you need? What what like trait or quality that you don't have, or what would you need a friend with you? What what would you need? And you can, you know, what kind of words would you need?

SPEAKER_03 52:00

Yeah. Even very base level, having that unconditional positive regard for the people we work with, yeah, that is hopefully a part of that non-judgmental state space we're providing is also modeling for them.

SPEAKER_02 52:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 52:19

We can be effective and not judge, or not, we can notice the critic and I'm not criticizing you.

SPEAKER_02 52:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 52:26

So even just providing that safe space and modeling, I'm I don't look at you any different, right? Like I appreciate your sharing these things with me, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:38

And sometimes the first place they really get it is in the therapy room. Is in the therapy room. Yeah. You know, and then of course they're not gonna regularly all always be ready. You know, that takes some time of like realizing this exists and yeah, you're safe in this space. Building that.

SPEAKER_03 52:55

I mean, I I even in my own therapy work, uh, my therapist Sean, I remember sharing some stuff, and because I was so in it and just snotty and teary.

SPEAKER_02 53:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 53:08

And the only thing I remember him saying was, I just want you to know I don't view you any differently. I don't yeah, you know, like I appreciate you sharing. Like it was just that genuine kindness of you know, but I'm sure in retrospect, there was a part of me that was like, what is he gonna think of me?

SPEAKER_02 53:28

Yeah, totally. Well, it's also vulnerable being a therapist in therapy, like so.

SPEAKER_03 53:32

It's like, oh my god, what is he gonna think of me? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:35

So yeah, just like being like, uh this is okay.

SPEAKER_03 53:39

Yeah, you're human. This is okay.

SPEAKER_02 53:42

Yeah. So I mean, there's a lot of techniques with this, but I I think a hu if you remember nothing else, that noticing it. The noticing, the non-judgmental stance of noticing, observing. Yeah. And it it is more of like an easing that part of you that we want than like a trying to wall it off.

SPEAKER_03 54:04

Or get rid of it. Get rid of it.

SPEAKER_02 54:06

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:07

Because the more we can notice it and act outside of it, right? Or not let it feel like it's an order or it's dictating what we're doing, then it might not actually be as omnipresent. Yeah. As sometimes we experience it. Not that it will ever go away, but sometimes there is an easing of oh, you're not doing what I'm telling you. Yeah. Uh yeah. Call it a day then.

SPEAKER_02 54:33

Yeah. The inner critic is tired. Tired in a lot of cases, tired and ready to trust you, wanting to trust you, but maybe not feeling safe enough to do so.

SPEAKER_03 54:43

So be kind to yourself. Be kind to yourself.

SPEAKER_02 54:46

Yeah. Okay, well, maybe that's a good pausing of our main topic. Yeah.

Location Or Dwelling When You Move

SPEAKER_02 54:52

Okay, well, moving to our how wise is it, we have kind of an either or how wise is it today?

SPEAKER_03 54:59

Mix it up.

SPEAKER_02 55:00

We're mixing it up. So the question is, is it wise?

SPEAKER_00 55:06

Or wait.

SPEAKER_03 55:09

Is it wise or not wise? Or dumb. Or dumb. Unwise.

SPEAKER_02 55:17

Yeah. Is it more wise? Is it more wise? When moving to focus more on location when picking a place to move, or to focus more on dwelling. First thoughts.

SPEAKER_03 55:31

My initial thought would be location is more wise. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 55:36

Location, location, location. Yeah, tell us the reason.

SPEAKER_03 55:41

I think that in my lived experience, I think that if I live in a location that I feel kind of fits more of what I want, the dwelling kind of falls into place in the sense of Yeah. I'm so excited to be living in the location I'm living at, that everything kind of flows from there.

SPEAKER_02 56:07

Yeah. I like that.

SPEAKER_03 56:09

If that makes sense. Um and the caveat to that is for me, when you have a family that is expanding, yeah, then it's like location's great, but you really, you really do need that next like three-bedroom versus a two, you know, you you really do need the dwelling to fit. Yeah. Not that it needs to be huge, but that kind of takes priority.

SPEAKER_02 56:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 56:37

At least in my lived experience. Yes. And if you can get it close to a location you're looking for, great. Yeah. Um, but you might have to make some sacrifices there. Yeah. But I think if I I the places I've lived, even in Chicago, I've picked places that were much more location-based. I lived in a, I mean, I lived in a basement apartment because I wanted to live in the neighborhood that I lived in. And it was fine. The basement apartment was fine. There were a lot of things I didn't like about it. It just I was so much more excited to be living in the location. You know?

SPEAKER_02 57:13

Well, yeah, age kind of plays into it.

SPEAKER_03 57:16

Yeah. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 57:17

That was that's maybe a long-winded way of saying that, but no, I I I like what you're saying where it's like kind of start with the location. Start with the location. And like trust that like in that location you're gonna find something that fits. Yes. And like, well, okay, what's funny that I'm thinking about is Josh and I like because of a hopefully expanding family, we are looking for a three-bedroom with two bathrooms. And we were really most focused on that because we also like we love this neighborhood and we like this apartment. And it was really like the necessity of space that was like motivating the move. So that became our focus. And for that reason, I love Ravenswood, Andersonville. I I we looked a bunch here, but there really weren't that many three-bed, two baths. So I kind of was like, you know what? I'm gonna look around a little bit. I'm gonna expand this a little bit. And we wound up getting a place in a neighborhood I used to live in and did love. It's definitely a lit, it's still got family vibes, but like Ravenswood is like hi, family vibes. You know, it's like family. Everyone's our age and older, which is really nice. Yeah, Logan is a little younger, a little more. It's like alt in a different way. Like Ravenswood and Andersonville are alt in the queer way, which we love. Logan is alt in the like hipster way, which is cool. It'll be really interesting. I I can't wait to go back. I loved when I lived there before. But, you know, it like we did not expect to wind up there. But I can't say that I prioritized dwelling so much that we wound up in a neighborhood I don't like because I like that neighborhood. Right. I wouldn't have looked in a neighborhood I actively disliked, even if it was like the coolest place ever.

SPEAKER_03 59:20

Because it's e it's probably like 1A, 1B. I mean, it's like because even if you found a three-bedroom, but it was in a location that was you're like, this is just not gonna work for us. Yeah, you wouldn't take it. No.

SPEAKER_02 59:32

And you know, we saw a three-bedroom that was like on Irving Park Road, and I was sort of like on the busy street again. We're on the busy street. Yeah, a lot of traffic that much square footage, yeah. A lot of traffic, even though there were three bedrooms, there just wasn't a lot of square footage. But yeah, it's like we ended up like the main thing was like we need this space. But you know, we pulled up to that street and we were like, I'm into this, you know. So we liked the location too, and we do like the location so much. I think we're gonna wind up just absolutely loving it. But yeah, would you what would you say?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:10

Location. You would think wisdom equals location. Location.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:14

Okay, start there at least.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:17

Well, like it's interesting because it's almost like that you could think of it in the way of like, what won't I accept? Like, yeah. Like I could live in like an awful neighborhood with no restaurants and so much crime and zero culture, or I could live in like a hut in like a wonderful neighborhood with delicious foods and beautiful romance. Yeah. So, like, obviously, you gotta think of both. I mean, right? Yeah, like everyone thinks of both. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:50

And you gotta think of your lifestyle. Yeah. I think some people are true homebodies.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:54

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:55

And if they want their dollar to go as far as they can, maybe it's more wise for that type of person to put it into the home. Put it into the home and the neighborhood. If I I really stay at home a lot, yeah. I have people, uh, you know, I entertain, I don't go out to restaurants that much, or you know, like that might be the person who or the profile of somebody who's like dwelling, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:23

But then in a way, in a way, you could argue that's location too, because then that person maybe should find like low property tax kind of place or low process.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:32

Don't live don't live in Chicago. Don't live in Chicago.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:35

But yeah, yeah, it's like find like a reasonably priced suburb and yeah, then you could just live anywhere that's cheap to find a huge, a huge home. A huge home that's like not crazy expensive.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:49

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:49

Yeah. Now when you two say location, I know we're like we're gonna wrap up after this, but do you like location? Obviously, like neighborhood. Or location, like I want to live in Chicago.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:00

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:01

But like, do you think about location like the way like the street looks and like like curb appeal and stuff like that? Yeah, curb appeal, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:14

No, I don't think so. I think that's I think that's further down on the list. I think once I'm excited about the neighborhood, I see a place and this and that, that's further in the thought process. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:30

I think curb appeal is like rising on my list as of like this place. Like I'm thinking about the street, is more of like a tree-lined street that's like a little secluded because of the that's great. Yeah, I I hadn't really prioritized that, and I'm like, man, it sounds nice.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:47

It's great. I love living on a side street. Yeah. Um we're and we're far enough off. I mean, luckily, Belmont is, you know, just two lanes. It's not oh yeah, yeah, like a boulevard like Irving Park is where you got four lanes, right? Two going one way, oh my god, two going the other.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:08

And we're we're far enough off Belmont where we don't really hear that much of the traffic. So I love being on a side street, and it's a one-way street, which is nice too.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:16

Incredible. There's like no one on it.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:19

I mean, I think it's side street all the way.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:23

Yeah. All the way. Side street.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:25

I mean, you all hear on this podcast how many sirens go by here.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:28

Yeah. True.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:30

Sirens. It's been just two this time.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:34

But I think you would overlook that.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:36

If you had, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:37

If it was really like the location was totally dynamite. Yeah, you would. Or you would maybe be and and finding a place, renting a place, buying a place is always a give and take. It's always it's never gonna be perfect. So there's always things you gotta let go of. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:56

Okay, location.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:57

Location start there. Resale value.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:01

Yeah. Okay.

Contacts, Music Pick, And Goodbye

SPEAKER_02 1:04:04

Well an episode. What an episode. Where can people reach you, John?

SPEAKER_03 1:04:08

Butz. Jonathan at gmail.com. Please email me your favorite Nicholas Cage movies.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:14

What about you?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:15

Um, if you want to reach me, you can um visit my website at kkpsychotherapy.com. And yeah, you can request to work with me or ask questions about the pod, give suggestions, anything at all. I would love to hear from you. And how about you, Joshie?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:33

You can reach me at joshbayerfilms.com. Bayer as in the aspirin. I am an editor. I edit movies, I edit films, I edit this podcast. I could edit other podcasts. I did once edit someone's podcast. They didn't end up publishing it, but it was a really great episode.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:54

It's a great episode, though. It's still in the can. We might be releasing it. Josh myself released it.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:58

Yeah, I'd also love to shout out the new Genesis Awusu album.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:04

Yeah, I've been saying this was good.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:06

Um, it is called a long title that my Spotify is loading slowly. I think. I think because I got went over my 10,000 songs. And we never talked about how bad the Spotify icon looks now. The disco ball.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:23

The disco ball, not a fan. It's horrible.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:26

I'm like okay with it, but I don't think it really needed a change.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:30

It didn't need a change. Hopefully, it goes back soon.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:34

It's illegible. But the album is Red Star Woo in the worldwide Scourge. It's kind of like Cyberpunk. Cool. Like uh like TV on the radio, I'm thinking. Love TV on the radio. Like almost even a little gorilla z or like if block party were more silly. Cool.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:54

I like it. First song, first song Pirate Radio. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:58

I think you'll dig this, John.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:59

I'm gonna. Dig it. I'm gonna listen to it on the way home.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:01

Okay, cool. All right. And hopefully you do too. And thank you to Blanket Forts. Blank it Forts. Thank you as always. Always. And we'll catch you next week.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:09

Catch you next week. Bye. Gator Gator. Bye.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:14

The Wisemind Happy Hour podcast is for entertainment purposes only, not to be treated as medical advice. If you are struggling with your mental health, please seek medical attention or counseling.