the wisdom of LANGUAGE (feat. Mikhl Yashinsky)

Yiddishist Mikhl Yashinsky joins us to dissect the psychology of language...what if we all spoke every language (or at least tried?) Would we have global peace? And what if we approaching learning new languages through the lens of curiosity rather than the lens of conquest? PLUS: how wise is it to "read" Audiobooks?

www.yashinsky.com

- music by blanket forts -

Transcript

Welcome And John Sits Out

SPEAKER_03 0:05

Welcome to the Wise Mind Happy Hour. I'm Kelly.

SPEAKER_02 0:09

And I'm John. Judge. Judge. They rhyme.

SPEAKER_03 0:15

They rhyme. They don't rhyme. Do they rhyme?

SPEAKER_02 0:18

John.

SPEAKER_03 0:19

No, they don't rhyme. I can't believe I'm even asking that.

SPEAKER_02 0:22

Oh, I thought you were kidding. Because I was.

SPEAKER_03 0:24

I I'm extremely tired today. Like, and I know everybody says that all the time, like every day, if you're an adult. But like, I'm very tired of a blanket on, too, for those who aren't watching the video, but I'm just I'm tired. Um Dragon Dose Cobwebs. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, um, we have Josh with us today, instead of our lovely co-host John. And tell tell us, tell everyone why it's you today and not John.

SPEAKER_02 0:56

So John can't come. And there's a reason. We have a guest with special guest. Yeah. And we're not gonna say who it is, but he's gonna be coming along. And we had to redo our day. We had to do a different day because John can only do Tuesdays.

SPEAKER_03 1:16

Yeah, we're recording on an unusual night for us, and John is busy on Wednesday nights. So in order to accommodate our guest, we had to jettison John. Just kidding. No, we just ended up scheduling it this way, and it's gonna be great. We're gonna talk to our guest. Um enjoy our guests, enjoy our guest, and John will get to listen, and then he'll be back next week. Miss John.

SPEAKER_02 1:41

We lit a candle for John.

SPEAKER_03 1:43

Yeah, we did exactly.

SPEAKER_02 1:44

Love you.

SPEAKER_03 1:45

Exactly. Well, tell

Moving Boxes And Daily Clip Habit

SPEAKER_03 1:46

us, Josh, what's going on with you lately?

SPEAKER_02 1:49

Just like moving, you know, doing my clips. Um yeah, talk about moving. Yeah, moving is like so crazy. Yeah, we got boxes all over the place.

SPEAKER_03 2:01

Yeah, it's if you are watching the video, you'll see boxes all in the background.

SPEAKER_02 2:06

And the irony is well, should I say who our guest is now? Oh, you could. Because his nickname is literally box. So we'll have an extra box in the house.

SPEAKER_03 2:16

Yeah, you'll have we'll have to tell you about the nickname when he comes.

SPEAKER_02 2:20

Um more on that.

SPEAKER_03 2:21

More on that. But yeah, moving, you know, it's funny. My experience of moving is like everyone's like, oh my god, moving's terrible. And it's like to me, the worst part is just like the feeling like I should be packing a box when I don't want to be, and I end up like relaxing and doing something else after work.

SPEAKER_02 2:40

Like relaxing and doing a podcast.

SPEAKER_03 2:42

Yeah. Well, I'm not feeling it in this moment, but like a lot of the time, you know, when I'm not working and I'm just like kind of chilling out. I I there's a lot of guilt. Like, yeah, probably should be mid packing a box right now.

SPEAKER_02 2:57

Yeah, well, that's okay. I'm probably working on my eclipse. I've been making a lot of eclipsies. Should I talk about this?

SPEAKER_03 3:03

Yeah, tell us about your clients.

SPEAKER_02 3:04

It's short form content. I have a YouTube channel.

SPEAKER_03 3:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:07

I think I'm like at josh bear films.com. I don't fucking know. I actually don't know. I think I'm at Josh, I'm at Josh Bear Films. Josh B-A-Y-E-R. Because I changed it.

SPEAKER_03 3:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 3:19

I I'm not even gonna say what I used to be because I'm gonna confuse people.

SPEAKER_03 3:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 3:23

I can I changed it to conform with my image. Okay. My public image.

SPEAKER_03 3:28

Your public image image.

SPEAKER_02 3:30

But I've been making these short little eclipsies. I'll I'll make like supercuts of, you know, lots of goosebumps episodes, a lot of like I'll take a whole video game and cut it down to less than one minute.

SPEAKER_03 3:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:39

Sometimes documentaries I've edited, I'll cut it down to to like a supercut. It has to be a minute or less, is my thing. So it's just been a really fun exercise. I've been posting one clip a day.

SPEAKER_03 3:50

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 3:51

In addition to my pod clips, and I just love making clips.

SPEAKER_03 3:54

Yeah, it's so fun.

SPEAKER_02 3:55

Check those out. Short form vertical content. If you need anything edited, yeah. I'm too busy making my clips.

SPEAKER_03 4:02

So I mean, I'm sure you'd make time.

SPEAKER_02 4:05

Of course I would make time. I'm really good.

SPEAKER_03 4:08

Yeah, you are.

SPEAKER_02 4:09

Fast.

SPEAKER_03 4:09

It is fun to like kind of have the like little blink of nostalgia for like an old if someone was a goosebumps fan or you know, whatever it is you're making the clip of to just get like a quick under a minute like shots of all the kind of best scenes or nostalgia blasts. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:26

I'm doing some like 90s commercials, like super cuts of like like 10 different craft macaroni and cheese commercials. Yeah, but people really liked the honeycomb one. Oh, I always have one, and I'm like honeycomb. I'm like, I'm so excited to post this and we'll get like like 90 views, and then like the honeycomb one, I was like, whatever, and it got like 800 views and like two new subscribers. Wow. And four comments there. People were like, What is this? A fever dream? I love it. That's you never know, you never know.

SPEAKER_03 4:55

And how are you feeling about moving?

SPEAKER_02 4:57

Um, I'm honestly pretty excited. I think it's hectic. Yeah, I think it feels chaotic. I keep bumping into boxes.

SPEAKER_03 5:05

Yeah, it's hard to live amongst boxes, yeah. With the boxes, yeah, sleeping in the bed with the boxes, sleeping with boxes.

SPEAKER_02 5:15

That could be like an Apple TV show.

SPEAKER_03 5:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:17

And we packed, we I feel like we accidentally packed our um little mini food processor with the kind of pole string. Oh where I like diced the blade. So I had to make the curry tonight just with regular chopping.

SPEAKER_03 5:30

Wow. Was it much longer?

SPEAKER_02 5:32

I'm so sore. Really? No, I it actually took around the same amount of time. I had to clean it up. We knew you were gonna say I had to clean one less thing. There was no difference in the curry. You were gonna say so. It's like, why am I even using it?

SPEAKER_03 5:45

I think that's the reality. So many of those gadgets, like pound for pound, it's no more convenient.

SPEAKER_02 5:52

Yeah, I probably spent like one and a half more minutes chopping, and I'll probably end up spending like two less minutes cleaning.

unknown 5:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:58

So I might have saved time.

SPEAKER_03 6:00

Yeah. I was recently having a thought about something just like that, where it's like, oh, oh, that this chicken dish I make where I chop everything so little so that it doesn't have to cook as long. And I'm like, why don't I just like chop them in bigger chunks and leave it in the oven longer? I'd rather be in the oven longer than maybe like laboring over it longer.

SPEAKER_02 6:20

Yeah, because you hate labor.

SPEAKER_03 6:22

Yeah, I famously I hate labor. Anti-labour. No, I'm not. You should start a union. Yeah. Oh my god, I can't even think about the state of labor unions at this moment.

SPEAKER_02 6:32

I can't take that on at this moment. I was hoping you make like a cool joke.

SPEAKER_03 6:36

I make a cool joke, something cool.

SPEAKER_02 6:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:39

Um, I I really didn't have one in the chamber. Okay. Sorry.

SPEAKER_02 6:43

Like labor, because like you could go into labor if you have a baby. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:47

I'm hoping to one day go into labor. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 6:49

You could start, and then we'll be in a civil union. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:53

No, we're married.

SPEAKER_02 6:54

Right. I'm just trying to like reuse parts of the conversation. I'm making a little clipsy right now. Making a super cut of our previous like conversation.

SPEAKER_03 7:04

I'm almost like not following all the way, but that's okay.

Anniversary Expectations Under Stress

SPEAKER_02 7:07

We had our one-year anniversary.

SPEAKER_03 7:09

Yeah, we had our anniversary. We had, you know, in some ways, I think we are figuring out like how we want to celebrate anniversaries and stuff like that as a married couple. This is our one-year wedding anniversary, really an exciting anniversary. And I think because we're so like busy and we have so much going on, truly, we have so chaotic. Yeah. I think both of us like plan to make it more low-key because we we both were genuinely feeling so overwhelmed.

SPEAKER_02 7:42

Yeah, I think our plan was to just enjoy each other's company and go out and just splurge on a couple like pretty nice dinners. Yeah. Yeah. But maybe when it came that didn't feel so nice.

SPEAKER_03 7:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:54

I think you wanted diamonds and pearls. No, I mean Which I'm happy to provide.

SPEAKER_03 7:58

No, I think I just like when the time came and we like there wasn't like a gift, or you know, like the our both of us like wrote the cards kind of late.

SPEAKER_02 8:11

I was delinquent on my card, which is unusual.

SPEAKER_03 8:14

Which is very unusual for you. I think we've been busy. We've been, I mean, not think.

SPEAKER_02 8:18

We've been I think I thought I'd have like 15 minutes to myself over the weekend, and that kind of just never happened. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:25

Yeah, we've had so much going on. So, like at this point, we understand the mindset we had going into it. And then yeah, like I I had a lot of feelings like during it, wanting it to be more special and even maybe some like, and I felt embarrassed about this, but some desire for like some gender role traditional heterosexual, like gender role things of like man gives woman anniversary gift, like and and part of that was related to the process, the pregnancy, like you know, fertility journey we're on, and like how much more legwork that is involved for me and emotional work that's involved for me. And and I had like a pretty intense week of all that stuff, you know, which I can get into a little bit, but um yeah, like maybe wanting to feel like I was being seen in that experience. And yeah, I get that. Yeah, totally, and you do see me in that experience all the time.

SPEAKER_02 9:34

But then I'm just like sitting on my ass making my clips.

SPEAKER_03 9:36

No, well, I think you're so good at like being there for me and being loving, you know, you're endlessly loving and accepting of me and like the different emotions of this, but I probably just like weirdly on that day was sort of like it might be nice to get a gift that recognizes like whatever, and also like it's it is okay. It was more like wanting a gesture, I know, and I didn't provide, and that's okay, like really for some reason, like the delinquency on the card kind of like triggered that. That makes sense, yeah. And I also was I I was really emotionally raw. I know,

Finding Your Voice In Healthcare

SPEAKER_03 10:19

I had like an appointment a doctor's appointment this week where I kind of had to do something I don't really do and like listen to like a provider's recommendation and push back a little bit and like talk trying to talk about that in a coherent way, like going into this like pregnancy journey. All of my own like you know, wounds come up from my life and my traumatic memories are involved in that and core beliefs about myself, and I really had to try to like coherently and as like wise-mindedly as possible ask for for a different kind of consideration and like use my voice. And I was like, frankly, just terrified to do it, and just I mean, I was so anxious doing it, and I think it's really uncommon, you know, in like the allopathic medical world to push back against your provider and and and I don't want to say like disagree because that doesn't even sound like the right term because like I didn't go to medical school. How can I really like agree or disagree about a medical recommendation? It's more like prioritize different pieces of something or present a different perspective from from the view of the patient, which is me. Yeah, and help a doctor like see me more holistically almost like, or at least like make significant things that they may not even be aware of or thinking of as significant. And sometimes too, like as the patient, you have to be the one. In this case, I felt like I was, and I talked about this with my therapist, like you have to be the one holding the faith sometimes in something, or like that something isn't gonna go wrong, or you know, not add a medication that might like make it certain things feel safe but present some risks. You know, like it's it's a lot uh, you know, to be the patient sometimes, like going into pregnancy, unless you're a person who goes into pregnancy with like zero health concerns or issues. Lucky is really easy, yeah, or whatever. I mean it it was really challenging and I felt so raw ever since I knew I would have to have that conversation. Yeah, it was a build-up, yeah. And it went okay. I'd say. Yeah. Hats off. Yeah, thank you. Hats off Kelly. Thank you. And yeah, it felt you know, even though I like we have the doctor and I, she and I have not decided exactly like what couple medications we're gonna like land on. I feel like a a tectonic shift has happened in my showing up with my voice in that space. And and I I'll admit I didn't do it unemotionally, I was emotional.

SPEAKER_02 13:27

Even better.

SPEAKER_03 13:28

Totally, and I I was instead of trying to be strong, I just was like letting myself be totally raw and honest. That's strong, yeah, and it ended up feeling strong, and I felt very like whole and I felt like myself. And I think often in a doctor's office, I do not feel like myself. I feel kind of frozen and hoping to get out of there with no bad news.

SPEAKER_02 13:54

And you'll leave your body.

SPEAKER_03 13:57

Yeah, I I do kind of have a dissociative like strategy sometimes that comes up. One of my parts can be a dissociative part and try to pull me out of like my consciousness in that room, and I needed to be more conscious. And yeah, I was like pretty happy with how that went. But that but that being said, that went into my emotions, like you know, a couple of days before on our anniversary, like feeling like I am so overwhelmed with like all the things I'm facing. And you know, in the fertility pregnancy process, like women do way more, and and that's the only way it's possible, you know. Like it's my body that carries the baby.

SPEAKER_02 14:42

It's like I could carry it for a while.

SPEAKER_03 14:45

And I know you would.

SPEAKER_02 14:46

I would. I'd love to. I'd like finally feel I'd finally feel clean.

SPEAKER_03 14:51

I know you would. So yeah, yeah, I think um like that's that's a reality that like I I don't need to like uh lament too much, but I think sometimes it's nice for like someone without your prompting to really notice like the heaviness of that weight and and maybe give you a gift or some gesture, you know, that says like I see you, I I appreciate you, like this is a lot.

SPEAKER_02 15:20

Here's this note taken. Totally, totally. It's probably easier than like being present.

SPEAKER_03 15:28

Well, I want that too.

SPEAKER_02 15:30

Sure, I'm not gonna stop doing that, yeah, yeah. Sometimes when the dust settles after, you know, a skirmish of ours. I feel like the takeaway will be pretty simple. Yeah, but in the moment it's surrounded by all this gunk of like I'm bad.

SPEAKER_01 15:47

And I'm never good.

unknown 15:49

Totally totally.

SPEAKER_01 15:50

And even if you know what to do, you don't deserve it. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:54

I like that little like pitch that your you know negative self-talk has. Or like it's almost like a little Cartman voice.

SPEAKER_02 16:01

I wrote a little negative self-talk poem, but I'm not gonna read it. It

Poetry As A Mental Reset

SPEAKER_02 16:05

would make everyone feel really sad for me. But I felt so much better after I wrote it.

SPEAKER_03 16:09

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 16:09

Shout out my therapist. Yeah, love. She was like, You should be writing.

SPEAKER_03 16:14

That's great. Oh, I love that. I love I love that for you.

SPEAKER_02 16:18

I know. I'm a writer at the end of the day. I mostly write with my editing lately, but yeah. Writing, writing. I don't like screenwriting, but I do like writing, writing, like writing poetry or yeah, they call my negative stuff.

SPEAKER_03 16:30

Speaking of poetry, I don't even know if I told you this, but I was listening to another podcast I love. It's an EMDR podcast called Notice That. They had a guest on um Marshall something. I'm I can't remember his last name right now. No. Okay. Um, a really great therapist in Austin, Texas, who does like art therapy and like expression and um sand tray therapy, um, which I have to like learn more about, but expressive arts, like um, and he was saying on this podcast, he's like, I've never said this out loud before, but I know I believe it as I'm about to say it. He's like, I think therapists should read poetry every day. And his thought was like, it engages like the nonverbal like part of the mind, like the right brain, which like so much of actually like being present with someone and understanding them is like not focusing too hard on the content, but being able to be deep in the implicit and the nonverbal processing. Yeah. And I was like, oh, I love that. So I've kind of tried to start reading poetry.

SPEAKER_02 17:38

Oh, that's fun.

SPEAKER_03 17:39

Yeah. The hard thing is I'm such an emotional person. Like, I'll it'll often make me tear up. Poetry often like moves me to tears. And then I'm like, look like I'm crying as I'm going in to help a client. So it's like I'll have to do it like in the morning with a little time between reading it and and sessions. But but the times I've done it, I think it's really helped. Like, you know, me not be too in the left brain, left hemisphere, you know, content and what they say and the verbal, and you know, to be more like flowy and connect through the body, the rhythm and melody of a session versus like what's being said. Right.

SPEAKER_02 18:21

It's like my boyfriend is a caterpillar in my day, but it could become a moth or it could become a butterfly.

SPEAKER_03 18:29

Yeah, that's a poem. Love Josh. Yeah. No, but I I I've been finding it really nice.

SPEAKER_02 18:36

And yeah, I think you should be writing, and that's it's funny because sometimes when I'm like really in a dark place, I'll have this thought of like, well, I feel like writing could help. And it's like, but if you've got like five minutes less stunt of work, like that's not very productive, and like almost like you don't deserve to write, like you're too busy.

SPEAKER_03 18:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:52

And then I kind of just like really forced myself. I almost felt like I was like moving like a steel bar. I was like, just do it. It was last night before bed.

SPEAKER_01 19:02

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 19:03

And then I like got into bed, I felt clear-headed. I was like listening to my jazz music and like enjoying it, and I was like, wow, that really I always feel like it's like maybe not gonna work. Yeah, and I was like, this is so pointless. Like, I feel like I've felt this way so many times. Like, yeah, nothing feels new, right? Like it feels like I'm gonna like bore everyone, but yeah, it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_03 19:25

Doesn't matter, bore everyone, bore everyone. Do it if it's honest, it's worth it. If it's honest, it's boring. You know, it's interesting. This is maybe a great segue for our guest because he's gonna talk a lot about language. Um, we're gonna talk about the wisdom of studying language, learning different languages, and what it can bring to one's life.

Lifelong Friends Meet The Guest

SPEAKER_03 19:48

So, welcome to the pod, Michal Yashinsky. Welcome. Thank you, thank you. Okay, good to be here. Yes, so great to have you. Thank you for joining us. And first, tell us how you know us and specifically how you know Josh over here.

SPEAKER_00 20:05

Yes. Uh well, Josh, as I call him, or Josh, uh, we've been friends for a very long time, since before kindergarten.

SPEAKER_01 20:15

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 20:16

I think we were living next door to each other, and I remember my first memory of Josh is that you were playing hoops maybe with your little brother and nanny outdoors, and maybe you had just moved in the family, and I sort of was creeping around seeing who are these new people playing and met you there on your driveway. Crazy. And yeah, I think since then we've been friends. We went to kindergarten together, yeah. And um yeah, very happy, lifelong friendship, pretty much.

SPEAKER_02 20:52

Yeah, lots of sleepovers, yeah. Look forward, look forward to that.

SPEAKER_00 20:58

Lots of creating together, yeah. Movies, poetry.

SPEAKER_02 21:02

We would do like detective uh case files. Yeah. I remember one time we were taking all this evidence of like why the real world was actually a goosebumps episode.

SPEAKER_00 21:12

Oh my god. Yeah, I remember I was as Detective Shink, which is what my family sometimes called me Shink because I couldn't say my name at one point, Yeshinski. I said my name is Michael Harry, Shinky Shinky. And then they started calling me Shink, so I had a notebook as Detective Shink where I'd be writing case notes and things.

SPEAKER_03 21:33

I love that. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 21:35

But yeah, I remember we used to write poetry in up in my room about things that happened to us or world events, even. I remember there was there was one about like the war in Afghanistan. There's one about the burka. Yeah, the burqa.

SPEAKER_01 21:51

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 21:52

There was one called the quarrels. Yeah, about a family of squirrels. Yeah. That was a good one. The quarrels. Yeah. We did breakfast, lunch. And dinner. Yeah, we did one about our playing tennis. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:04

A poem about that.

SPEAKER_00 22:05

Yeah, about it being a very hot day and playing tennis and being thirsty. So good. And I remember, yeah, I remember like that to us was normal, sitting and writing poetry together.

SPEAKER_02 22:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:18

But I remember my brother Sam had a friend over whom I won't name. And he I think we all came down for lunch or snack, and we said we had been writing poetry in my room, and he really made fun of us for it.

SPEAKER_02 22:32

Yeah, I I forgot about that. Yeah. And now I remember about it.

SPEAKER_00 22:36

But we wouldn't have thought that weird at all.

SPEAKER_02 22:40

No, I think it was I think I like knew that people were doing other things, but I didn't necessarily feel bashful about it.

SPEAKER_00 22:47

No. Yeah, only when and even when this person made fun of us, I think I I didn't feel bad about it. I just felt that he was a silly Billy.

SPEAKER_03 22:56

Yeah, like what would he be doing?

SPEAKER_00 22:58

I mean, I guess they were, I don't know. What what is the other hand? Playing football. Yeah. Playing playing table tennis. Yeah. Which we did also.

SPEAKER_02 23:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:07

Yeah. It's like if I think about having a son, it's like, would I prefer they play football or write poetry with their friend? Like I can tell you I would absolutely want them to write poetry.

SPEAKER_04 23:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:17

I I really don't want a sports child, but that's another thing. Do you remember like your first meeting similarly?

SPEAKER_02 23:24

I I feel like I don't remember the I don't I I can picture it. It's hard to say if it's an actual memory or if I like so remember just that general era and like the exact scene you're describing that I could imagine it as if it's happening. Yeah. I can even picture like our basketball we probably had. Totally. It's the bad boys, the pistons bad boys ball. Oh it was a black basketball and it was always kind of deflated.

SPEAKER_00 23:48

You also had a piston's bad boys poster, didn't you? Or maybe we did in my basement. I think you did in your basement. Yeah, you had some nice posters.

SPEAKER_03 23:58

Nice.

SPEAKER_00 23:59

Yeah, some of them are still down there. Wow. Wow.

SPEAKER_03 24:03

Because you, your parents still live in your childhood home.

SPEAKER_00 24:05

Yes. So that's where I go when I come and visit home.

SPEAKER_03 24:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:09

Still in my old bedroom. And um yeah, Yash's family's house next door. Um so I always think about I've never really known that well the families that have come since you moved away. So to me, it's still sort of your house. Oh that's fine. It's been decades. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:29

I come sometimes. Yeah. Go troll the basement looking for new boys.

SPEAKER_00 24:37

Yeah new books. New books. New boys. New books. New playmates, you mean? Is that the idea? Sure. People to scare and boys to scare.

SPEAKER_02 24:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:51

Well, I love that you guys would write poetry. It kind of segues us a little bit into what we're gonna talk about today and what you do now with language. So yeah, tell us a little bit about your work today.

What It Means To Be Yiddishist

SPEAKER_00 25:03

Yeah. So uh sometimes I say I'm a professional Yiddishist. Basically, these days, for the past few years, I've a lot of my work has been around the language and culture of Yiddish.

SPEAKER_01 25:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:16

Uh, which is sort of ancestral language, um, in a way. Yeah. Um my grandparents spoke it. Um and I've been doing a lot in that field, performing in Yiddish, writing new Yiddish plays, translating, teaching, writing for newspapers, doing oral history interviews with people who speak Yiddish. So a lot around that and around um sort of keeping it a vital language and spreading knowledge of it and disseminating some of the treasures of Yiddish literature and theater.

SPEAKER_04 25:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:53

So yeah, that's a lot of my work.

SPEAKER_04 25:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:55

It's hard to say in one word other than Yiddishist. Yeah. Sort of everything that goes into that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:03

Yeah, totally. You know, it's funny, like as a non-Jew myself, my like first exposure to Yiddish. Like, I I remember in high school I worked at Starbucks, and there was a girl who like her, she would always just say Yiddish, like words like mixed with English, like you do. And I was I remember like not being sure it was like a whole own language. Maybe that's embarrassing for me to say, but like growing up like Catholic, I didn't really know if it was its own like discrete language or what it was. I know people were saying the words like, you know, schlep and you know, all those words.

SPEAKER_00 26:43

I think that's very common that too. Yeah, uh, like I think people are surprised that Yiddish has a grammar, that there are textbooks to teach Yiddish, one of which I was a co-author on a recent textbook. It's called In Anim. It means all together. Anyway, um, but yeah, people are surprised to learn that it's a language like any other language. But I think that's the fate of a lot of languages that don't necessarily have a sort of national apparatus behind them. Yeah. Yiddish isn't the language of any state or anything. Yeah. Um yes, it was uh commonly attributed to Max Weinreich, who is a Yiddish linguist, this quotation that says Asprach is a dialect mit an armeuna flot, which means a language is a dialect with an army and a navy. Oh wow so basically, like unless you have those sorts of things behind you and borders and military and courts, people aren't necessarily gonna recognize what you speak as a language and be considered a dialect, but really they're the same thing.

SPEAKER_03 27:52

Wow. Oh, that's so interesting. That makes sense. And what drew you to Yiddish as opposed to Hebrew or anything else?

SPEAKER_00 27:59

Yes. Well, Hebrew I grew up studying. Yeah. I went to Jewish day school, and we had Hebrew every day, and we learned the Bible and Hebrew, and um I love Hebrew as well, but uh I think I was always sort of longing to know this language of Yiddish that my grandparents spoke, my great-grandparents spoke. It was their daily language in a way that Hebrew was not Hebrew.

SPEAKER_01 28:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:26

Until more recent years, and there's a state of Israel that Hebrew is its official language, Yiddish was really the vernacular of a lot of Jews and are Jews, say. And uh like Ashkenazi. Yeah, exactly. So I wanted access to that. I didn't want that to sort of fade, and I wanted to be able to speak it and use it. So that's I think was the initial draw. And then as I became more and more deep into it, discovered how beautiful a lot of the literature is and how nice this sort of international community of Yiddishists is. Yeah. So it's just pulled me in further and deeper, and um, now I'm sort of contributing to it myself. Yeah. So yeah, I I think about uh my grandma Liz a lot who spoke Yiddish and she was really into Yiddish. She led a Yiddish group for retirees, and she visited this place, the Yiddish Book Center, long before I started working there. So I think about her inspiration, how this has led me on this path.

SPEAKER_01 29:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:30

Yeah. And what do you notice like with the literature? Like, how does it, you know, it's hard I'm sure it's impossible to encapsulate this in like a sentence or two, but it's different from like English lit and like stories, you know, in English. What do you notice?

SPEAKER_00 29:49

So it's the language of this minority, this persecuted minority in Eastern Europe, is a lot sort of a lot of the modern literature comes from that milieu. And so it has this quality of people who have been conditioned into having to sort of struggle and fight and hold on to what they have, be creative. So I think it has that quality, this sort of bristling quality of people who don't have everything. So they have to often live through the mind and through a culture that they can create.

Yiddish As A Portable Homeland

SPEAKER_00 30:37

In that way, sort of Yiddish is um it sort of became like a portable homeland to them. Where as long as they had Yiddish language and literature, they could go wherever and be at home, even if they didn't really have a home, as they were being forced out of every place that they lived, as basically the Jews were from every European country.

SPEAKER_03 30:58

Yeah, I love thinking of the language itself as like a home. Yeah. Especially because it's I don't want to say like niche, but like almost a little bit, you know, not like speaking English and going somewhere and meeting someone else who speaks English in a non-English speaking country. It's different. There's there's like a texture to it that's different.

SPEAKER_00 31:18

I think so. And in a way. I don't know. What what's your relationship to sort of English as the language of your identity of your country? Like whatever. What do you how do you feel about that? Yeah, how do you feel take for granted? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:35

Yeah, I don't consciously think about it that much. It's even weird that it's called English.

SPEAKER_02 31:42

Yeah, England.

SPEAKER_03 31:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:43

I don't, I'm not from England. Exactly. And people will talk about, I don't know, sort of American nativists, sort of anti-immigrant kind of people will have this line of, you know, you're in America, speak English.

SPEAKER_01 31:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:59

But like, why what is the connection? America and English. Right. You know, where this is not, as you said, England. And to me, America is a place of many different languages. Yeah. That's sort of what the linguistic fabric of this country is, more than it being this one language. So to me, that's like a false premise. People promoting English as a language of this country or the official language, which it's never been until I think under the current administration.

SPEAKER_03 32:28

Yeah, totally. Because like right now, there's a lot a push for a lot of therapists to offer, you know, free therapy to people affected by ICE. And and they're, of course, as they should be, looking for Spanish-speaking um therapists. And I was thinking about it, I'm like, oh, I I don't fluently speak Spanish. I I couldn't confidently like conduct a session in Spanish, unfortunately. And I was like, you know, should I offer my services anyway? And I ended up offering them and then thought to myself, like, how ridiculous. Like that someone in a therapy room trying to be really open and honest and process how they feel, like, how could they speak in anything but their native language? Like, it would be so unfair to expect that of someone. So I was kind of like, I'll throw my name in there if someone is a more native English speaker, but it made me think about that. Like, wow, you know, that that is so important to be able to, whatever that language is, like, be able to speak from that place.

SPEAKER_00 33:28

Yeah. To express the sort of fullness of yourself.

SPEAKER_03 33:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:32

And I've started writing things in Yiddish, plays and articles and poems, and that's an interesting experience because it's not like I can express everything as naturally and as freely as I can in my mother tongue, which is English. Yeah. But sometimes in artistic creation, that sort of difficulty can engender interesting results and challenges that lead you to be creative in certain ways. Yeah. But yeah, in the therapy session, I feel like you'd want to speak what's just easiest.

SPEAKER_03 34:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:06

And what like trips off the tongue.

SPEAKER_03 34:08

Well, to that point, it almost makes me as the therapist like feel okay with like you know, it's like almost like writing with your left hand, you know, like it could almost unblock you in some ways. Yeah, maybe it can. Yeah. And I think that's easier for a therapist to try than like the person who's trying to like be raw and open. Do you ever like dream in Yiddish or like any of that kind of stuff? Where it just comes.

SPEAKER_00 34:30

I don't know if I dream necessarily in Yiddish. I don't know if I dream in English either. I feel like mostly images. I don't know. Images and actions.

SPEAKER_03 34:40

Movement, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:42

I don't know. And talking with friends in Yiddish, who's other Yiddish speaking friends, there can be this, as you said, unblocking. I think that you can maybe sometimes express yourself more freely because there's this distance. I don't know. Sort of like if you go to opera and you hear them singing in Italian or German, it all sounds so lovely and wonderful. And no matter what it is they're saying, but if they're singing those Italian and German operas in English, suddenly to us it sounds sort of very awkward. Yeah. Why are they saying these stupid things and this bad poetry? And we don't notice it when it's in another language. Yeah. Yeah. So that distance, I think, is sometimes helpful in a way. Yeah, to appreciate like the sound.

SPEAKER_03 35:31

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:32

Without being hung up on every word.

SPEAKER_03 35:36

Yeah. Well, we're something we're wanting to talk about in this conversation is like the wisdom of studying language, like considering language, even how we language things.

Why Learning Languages Changes You

SPEAKER_03 35:49

So yeah, let's let's get into it. What are what are either of your first thoughts on like an idea like that?

SPEAKER_02 35:57

Oh man. I mean, I just speak so much English. It's a problem. Do you studied, I forget in I I I tested out of Spanish in college because I'm a very good test taker. And for that reason, I didn't. Absolutely. Como está? We got those.

SPEAKER_03 36:16

It is funny the concept of testing out of it. And you don't speak a word about it. But you might have been.

SPEAKER_02 36:22

Oh, I I was certainly better then, but I remembered thinking like they got that wrong. I because I think I almost feel like I remember getting like maybe this is wrong. I feel like I remember getting some printout and it was like, you're fluent. Or and you know, I think that was the the what they say without saying.

SPEAKER_00 36:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:40

That if you test out of it, it should be that you're fluent. Then I never went abroad and it's deteriorated a bit. Right. Sometimes I'll be in an Uber and I'll start to speak Spanish and I realize I've signed the contract, and then they'll be like all excited. And then for the rest of the conversation, I'm also like, see, see.

SPEAKER_00 36:57

Aur Aurora. Aurra. They see you as very positive then. Just see. Agreeing with everything they say.

SPEAKER_02 37:04

No, no. Which is no. Um así, I see. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:11

Maso menos.

SPEAKER_00 37:12

Muy bien.

SPEAKER_02 37:13

More or less. Muy bien. But yeah, I think I I think I really have the privilege of not having to go outside of my language comfort zone really ever. And I haven't done as much traveling as I'd like to do. And I haven't been in a foreign country really for an extended period of time. And when I do go, I feel like enough people tend to speak English. Like when I've been to Israel and um, you know, Mexico, yeah. Paris, people can be mean about it, but yeah, I feel like I've never been immersed in a situation where I need to learn another language. And I feel like it's a challenge I like would like to do, but at the same time, it sounds scary.

SPEAKER_00 37:54

That's sort of the other aspect of English being our language, not only that it's you know used for many purposes in our country, but also throughout the world that English has become the lingua franca. So it it allows us to be sort of um to not have to try too hard to be understood. Whereas people in countries that speak other languages, they do have to try, they have to study and uh learn so that they can communicate globally, whereas we don't, so that allows us to be kind of complacent in a way, I guess, and to not necessarily enjoy all that comes of studying other languages and speaking other languages. I don't know. It's sort of just uh how things are, but yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:42

Well, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:43

One has to go sort of out of one coun one's comfort zone and do things that don't seem necessarily the most natural or easy thing, and then um enjoy the benefits of multilingualism. I don't know. Yeah, I feel like it's waiting there for all of us. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:59

Well, yeah, what do you think those benefits are?

SPEAKER_00 39:02

What have you noticed? To me, it's just exciting to participate in other cultures in their languages. I feel like that's always just been something that's excited me. I remember my f one of my favorite books growing up was there were two. One was children, it was called something children like me, and then it was holidays. They were both put out by, I think, UNICEF, sort of children's fund of the UN. And each two-page spread was a different child from around the world talking about their native culture or their holiday. I always loved learning about all these people's different customs and what they called their mother and father, and their rituals and food. And I think uh language is such an important part of all that. It's tied in with culture. So it allows you to learn and take part in people's cultures and communicate with them. I think that's something like that, that sort of cultural sharing and learning about each other, ultimately can, I feel like if everyone has that attitude, it can lead to global peace. Oh wow, I feel like you're right. I think you're right. Yeah. If people are curious about each other and learning about each other, not forcing their own way of thinking on the other, but yeah, embracing the other person's thinking. I don't know. Totally. If we learn to speak each other's languages, how close that dream might be. I don't know. That's that's that's that's something, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 40:38

Yeah, yes. It is so interesting. Like, even the way I think about it, it's like, oh, I only speak English, so I have less accolades. Accolades, meaning like, oh, like it would be like a notch on my belt, or like some like like I'm like checking them off the list.

SPEAKER_03 40:52

Like But you're talking about something way more experiential, like Yeah, I guess I've I like that that's sometimes people will ask how many languages do I speak?

SPEAKER_00 41:00

And I'm almost hesitant to say because uh it doesn't feel like it should just be there. Are people who are polyglots and they're just racking up languages, just sort of for the sake of it.

SPEAKER_03 41:10

Right.

SPEAKER_00 41:10

It feels like sometimes. But um yeah, unless the languages also involve getting to know people who speak that language or participating in that culture, reading great works in that language, I don't know how much worth it is. Um unless you're a linguist and you're just studying sort of the science of languages and how they work. Yeah. That's a different matter.

SPEAKER_03 41:33

I'm thinking about like, let's say you're interested in other cultures, you know, one person might just kind of like study the culture and read and but it's like to learn uh the language is like there's almost like a vulnerability and a humility to it of like I'm gonna enter someone else's native space and like be open and like converse in this live format. Like I I'm I'm moved by the idea that like you're you're putting yourself in it and letting go a little bit of some of your identity, obviously not all of it, but like as opposed to the you know, when I hear someone speaks like six languages, that works on me where I'm like, oh, they're better than me. Right cool, right? But like I think there is something so much more happening there, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 42:24

Yeah, that idea of giving up of some of your own identity or even some of your own sense of how smart you are, yeah, right that it takes to learn a little different language where you are in as you're beginning, sort of like a kindergartner, right? Learning the colors and the numbers, and yeah, and that sort of can make people feel very vulnerable, maybe, not being able to access every part of their smarts, and yeah, but it's something there's something very nice about that, about letting go of some of that and being a vessel and allowing yourself to be a little bit dumb, yeah, right, not have all the answers, not be able to say everything you want to. There's something I think that's nice about that, and it's also something I think that makes language learning uh pleasure. Like, because it is like we're kindergarteners again for a time. That can be nice, uh totally, yeah, without having to wrestle with abstract concepts and just sort of learning how to say stuff and how to communicate. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:37

Say stuff, come on, talk, say stuff. That's so true. It's funny that you mentioned that book, because like I I probably didn't have the same book, but like it was bringing up a sense

Dinner Rules And Cultural Shock

SPEAKER_03 43:47

memory. Like when I was little, it's like learning like how a family over here celebrated their holiday or whatever. Like there was something that would like light up inside me. I even as an adult, like I remember, like, maybe I even told you this. And a friend repeated it back to me because she did this practice. But like I read a book about a woman who married a French guy, and she was talking about all the differences, like little differences in like French culture and American culture. And she was saying how, like, at a dinner, if you have a dinner party in France, like you make basically exactly enough food for everyone there, and really no more than that. And like, for it's such a small thing, but like it it meant a lot to me where I'm like, well, this is what they do in France. And like there's something about that that makes me feel like alive to like know that and see the difference and like enter a space where I'm doing something or thinking about something different than the way I would do it. I don't know if everybody feels that. Yeah. Do you feel that?

SPEAKER_02 44:43

I mean, as you're talking, it's like lighting up something in me.

SPEAKER_03 44:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:46

I think just like taking something that seems so mundane and like flipping it on its head a little bit, where it's like, oh, here's this mirror version or this fun house mirror version of something that I do every day. Yeah. And it's different. And it's like, oh, I'm in this like rut of doing things the certain way. Yeah. And to me, it's like the way. But really, there's I was gonna say hundred hundreds of different ways to do it, but totally more than that.

SPEAKER_00 45:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:11

Maybe a thousand. Even as something as simple as how much food to make for dinner. What the I remember that was sort of a Twitter debate a few years ago, or it became somehow known on Twitter that Swedish people don't invite their kids' friends for dinner. If the if the kids' friends are hanging out and it's getting to be dinner time, the the friend has to be sent home before dinner is served, or go in a separate room in the house while the family eats dinner and then rejoin. Yeah. Um, because I think the idea is you have dinner with your family. Oh family. So you can't be at this other family's house eating dinner and then having eaten.

SPEAKER_03 45:58

Have you guys ever been sent home from a family's house for dinner? No. That's happened to me once. Were they Swedish? Honestly, I'm like, were they Swedish on some level? I don't think so.

SPEAKER_00 46:09

Was that the reason? Just it wasn't their custom to have.

SPEAKER_03 46:12

Well, I don't even really know the reason. I just remember my friend saying, Mom, can Kelly save for dinner? And her mom just saying, No. And I was I remember the look on her face. I remember where I was standing. Like it was impactful emotionally. Yeah. It felt very like rejecting. Yeah. But I wonder if you if I lived in Sweden and that was the custom. Yeah, I'd probably be like leaving before dinner anyway.

SPEAKER_00 46:36

Yeah. It would be shocking, I think, in our homes. Yes. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:41

Especially in.

SPEAKER_00 46:42

Yeah, I feel like the Jewish approach as I know it is to definitely make too much food. Yes. God forbid someone shouldn't be able to have everything they want to have. Um and definitely, yeah, a feeling of abundance and inviting people, sort of open tent like Abraham.

SPEAKER_02 47:03

Maybe spooning people food onto people's plates even when they don't want it necessarily.

SPEAKER_00 47:07

Keeping on offering your food. Yeah. As my mom does just like hundreds of times. We've had to make sometimes make a rule. Like mom can only offer what's on her plate once. Yeah. Yeah. Then people can feel free to take if they want. But she never she says, that's your rule. I don't have to.

SPEAKER_03 47:27

I make the rules. Yeah. I love that. That's very you. Josh Josh will offer me his food. I mean it's OCD. Yeah. It's a it's probably a bit.

SPEAKER_02 47:37

Is it a Jewish OCD?

SPEAKER_03 47:38

Probably a little bit. Or Jewish meats and I will be done with something and I'll say, Do you want the rest of this? I'll give it to Josh. The very thing I just gave to him. He'll be like, Do you want some? I'm like, are you okay?

SPEAKER_02 47:50

Because I'll be so excited about it. So I'll be like, I can't.

SPEAKER_03 47:53

But I think it's like a compulsion a little bit. Of course it's a compulsion. Before you bite, you have to make sure I don't want it. Which is sweet. Sure, but it's also annoying. It's like get a life. And I do think language, it's such a profound like portal into that other world. And

Silence And Sound As Language

SPEAKER_03 48:11

even like I think about how how one languages something. I I more and more like in my own work, like think about that a lot. Like the specifics of how something is worded and even said sometimes. Like the the tone and the the body language with speaking and communicating is so important. Totally. And and learning different languages almost sometimes can like separate you from being like locked in like one meaning of something. Sure. Right? Like there's a flexibility to like even your spirit a little bit. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:49

Well, it can almost prevent you from overthinking. Like it's like sometimes we have too many options. Or I'll be like, what's that word I can't think of that I knew like 10 years ago? And then I'll be like Googling synonyms, and it's almost like if you have a more limited palette, you can just kind of flow with it.

SPEAKER_00 49:06

Body language and even silence. I think silence can say a lot. Oh, yeah. It was something I was thinking about as I saw this play tonight, uh, which was a new theatrical adaptation of Brokebeck Mountain.

SPEAKER_01 49:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:20

Between the scenes, there were songs, sort of an off-stage group singing songs and commenting on the action in a way. And I've and and and there was a note in the program that said, because Ennis Del Mar, who is the Heath Ledger character, is sort of not a very loquacious, verbose person. Yes. We need the music to sort of fill in the gaps of things he can't say.

SPEAKER_04 49:52

Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_00 49:53

I I sort of felt like I didn't need that. Because his lack of volubleness and his silences spoke volume. Yeah, I see. And we didn't need the band coming in after every sort of tense, um, maybe largely silent scene to then sing a song about it. Yeah, because so much was being communicated by the silence. Um, and I think silence is a part of language too, just like in music, the rests are just as important as the notes. Yeah, totally. Um, in establishing a song.

SPEAKER_03 50:29

Yeah. That's so true. I feel like lately in media, I've had that experience a lot where I'm like, heaven forbid they didn't spell this out.

SPEAKER_02 50:38

You just said that the other day. You were like, well, that's a Netflix scene.

SPEAKER_03 50:41

But they'll even sometimes fake you out. Like they're gonna give you the chance to be with the silence, and then a second later they explain it, and you're like, God damn it.

SPEAKER_02 50:48

Let's explain some of these core themes. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:51

Let's just say and it and it takes away your ability to like a maybe not need to like language it in that moment, or like have your own relationship to it that's a little less packaged and like contained. Yeah, because I remember that in that movie, it was a long time ago that I saw that movie, but he was a very silent character.

SPEAKER_00 51:14

And even his speech was kind of like a little Yeah, yeah. And that way I was thinking about that too. The accent matters so much. Yes, the ways speaking, the words, not just the words he uses, which are I mean, they all speak in this interesting kind of Western dialect of the ranches and the mountains, but also uh just the accent and the color that that puts on every word communicate so much as well.

SPEAKER_04 51:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:45

Whether you're drawing out a word or clipping it. Yes, the vocalics of it all.

SPEAKER_03 51:50

When you meet people that like fluently speak Yiddish or speak it like in their everyday even now, is like what do you notice about silence? Are there like patterns there, or is it just totally unique to each person?

SPEAKER_00 52:03

Interesting. What comes to mind first is just the word to be quiet, which is sha. And you probably know sha. Sha. Yeah. Do you know sha? No. Shek it bavaka sha. Well, that too, shek it bavaka sha, quiet please, in Hebrew. But if you just say sha, sha sha.

SPEAKER_02 52:26

Yeah, what does that mean to you? I I feel like it's in this song by Fontaine's DC, who's an Irish fan, so they have a song, Sha Sha Sha.

SPEAKER_00 52:36

But have you heard family saying Sha Shah? I maybe I haven't. That's just be quiet.

SPEAKER_02 52:40

Did you say yesterday during your speech?

SPEAKER_00 52:43

Possibly. I think it's ringing a bell.

SPEAKER_03 52:45

To the audience of the Newberry Library.

SPEAKER_00 52:47

Um Shah is the way to say be quiet. Like hush.

SPEAKER_01 52:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:53

Um, and that's a word that I remember hearing growing up. I remember sort of if the kids were doing something interesting, the grandkids, my grandma would say it to my grandpa, sha sha. Like just watch and see what's happening. Or if someone was doing something, singing something, or doing something interesting, a child. Um like let them. Yeah, exactly. Don't interrupt. Yeah. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Yeah. Um, that's a nice word.

SPEAKER_03 53:22

And that's nice because it is like quick.

SPEAKER_00 53:25

Yeah. It accomplishes its goal. Yeah. Yes. Efficiently. Yeah. And uh even just calling that a word, I wonder if it is a word. I mean it's an interjection.

SPEAKER_03 53:35

So yeah, or those words.

SPEAKER_00 53:38

Yes. Shh. Is that a word? It's a collection of phonemes that has a sort of meaning. Yeah. So I guess it is a word, but yeah. I guess it goes into our discussion of language encapsulating so much, not just what we think necessarily of words, but also sort of sounds.

SPEAKER_03 53:56

Totally. Yeah. Well, it's like if I have a client who's explaining something like and they like make a noise, if I were to say, like, tell me about that frustration and like interpret it, I really wouldn't do that now. I would kind of say, tell me about like, you know, and mimic it exactly. Because there might be all of this material there that by me like labeling it, I would close off.

SPEAKER_04 54:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:23

And and yeah, it's like almost words that are non-words or sounds, like there's a whole universe of like meaning that could be there and like utility and you know, or like we make up words all the time. We have like so many fake words. I mean, that's pretty much a why on the end of just about anything.

SPEAKER_00 54:45

But like you heard that growing up, no? Yeah, no, that's not that's not like a good example, but that's one it seems familiar to me. Coldie? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:57

I'm cold. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we used to say when we were little too. Yeah. But yeah, it's like it's so interesting when people who speak multiple languages switch in and out of them. It's so interesting that too. Like a lot of times wanting privacy sometimes if you're around people that don't speak the language. Yeah. And that's kind of an interesting choice. Yeah. That can be jarring. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:24

You're being shut out.

SPEAKER_03 55:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:26

If people are speaking a language you don't know in front of you. Yeah.

When Switching Languages Feels Private

SPEAKER_00 55:30

It's just clear that they don't want me to hear. That's the sort of classic story that gets told about what role Yiddish played in people's growing up.

SPEAKER_04 55:40

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 55:40

People of our sort of parents' generation. They I hear it from so many people, and they all kind of I don't know if they all think, but a lot of them think it's maybe a unique or uh particularly interesting story that their parents spoke Yiddish when they didn't want their children to understand. And I think although all of these people are convinced that that's why their parents spoke Yiddish, I don't think it's quite right. Yeah, what do you think? Why did they have why did all of these people have so many secrets? I feel like were they nuclear scientists that they had to speak in Yiddish so as to tell secrets? Yeah. Like everyone says Yiddish was the language of secrets. Like, why did all of these people have so many? I don't think it's that they had so many secrets.

SPEAKER_01 56:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:26

I think it's that Yiddish was their language that they shared and they wanted to express themselves to each other in Yiddish because it was an intimate language to them. Um it wasn't about keeping other people out.

unknown 56:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:41

And I think, yeah, I think like just like you said, Yash, that that's people's experience of it when they hear other people speaking a different language in front of them. Like, oh, they must be speaking about me. Yeah. They must be sharing stuff they don't want me to hear, whatever. But very often it's just no, they want to speak in that language.

SPEAKER_03 56:59

Yeah, yes. Or like, it's like when you're learning like Spanish or whatever in high school, like some American student learning Spanish in high school or French or whatever, the like three things that were offered at my school. I would always have that moment where, like, especially if like you got to the place where you were in an advanced class, which I don't even think I got to like that advanced of a level with my own Spanish. But the teacher, I remember senior year, the teacher would really only speak Spanish. And I'd have moments where I would just be like, Can we just start about this in English? Because I'm confused on the assignment for a second. Or like a moment where you're like, Can I just break and just like there's like I need comfort in this moment? I need something that feels like just uh uneffortful, you know, because I've just been putting so much effort out in this way. And I wonder if like couples sometimes it's like, can we just like let our hair down a little bit? Maybe.

SPEAKER_00 57:53

I think so. Like you two were saying, you have your own sort of language that's do. And they speak in their native language. That's it's like letting their hair down. They can be free and intimate with each other in that language.

SPEAKER_03 58:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:08

Um, they're not always hiding things by speaking in that language. Yeah. I it's amazing how many people say this about their families. I don't contradict them.

SPEAKER_03 58:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:20

But I feel that it's the it's not quite right.

SPEAKER_03 58:23

Yeah, if you feel that there's something there. Like privacy doesn't have to be like secrets always. It can be I want this adult like cadence with my partner that feels like special and between us, even if like what we're saying is like about the laundry plan. Yeah, but it could be intimate. But it could be, yeah. Yeah. Laundry talk. Well, yeah, it's like like our little nicknames for each other or whatever. It's like an intimacy experience. That's true. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:52

People say that about Yiddish that and also don't know if that's true, but it's something people like to say about Yiddish, that Yiddish Retzichalein, that Yiddish speaks itself. You don't have to speak Yiddish, it just speaks itself. Yeah, it's just like water flowing.

SPEAKER_03 59:09

Yeah, almost like the way it sounds.

SPEAKER_00 59:12

Yeah, I think the way it sounds, I think basically people were expressing how natural, how hamish, that is homey it feels to them. Yeah. It just speaks itself. You don't even have to learn it. And I did sort of crazily actually kind of feel that when I learned Yiddish.

SPEAKER_03 59:29

Oh wow. Like you already knew it or something. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:33

And I think it's because I did have exposure to it, and also I had studied Hebrew and German, which are important source languages for Yiddish. Yeah. Okay. And a bit of Russian. But also, I think maybe magically it being a part of my ancestry made it all feel very familiar.

SPEAKER_04 59:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:51

Such that when I was learning it, I really didn't feel like I was breaking my teeth over it, which is also a Yiddish expression.

SPEAKER_02 59:59

Yeah, breaking my teeth.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:00

I like but it's funny, like, because obviously I don't have that ancestry. But to me, there is something about Yiddish that's special in that like it really has broken through, at least like in the circles I'm in. Like those little words are there. I mean, I'm Irish, I'm 100% Irish. Like, you know, there are like Gaelic words, but like I've never used one. Like, I have relatives that speak it a little bit. None of that's like trickled in at all. And like with Yiddish, it's like there are these like I'm gonna schlep this, or we we kind of collected them one day, I think, when we were sitting together. I'm schwitzing, I'm schwitzing. Yes. There, and where it's like people who wouldn't even gnashing. There's lots. Yeah. Some people wouldn't even know where that comes from, and yet it's there. And it it is kind of intuitive. Like schlepping, it's like when you say the word, you almost picture the action, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:06

Yeah. I'm just schlepping my backpack around. Dragging slumped over like a schlepper.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:14

That is the quality of a lot of Yiddish words, uh, as some people see them, that they have this how do you say it, another poetic. Yeah, yes. Totally. Things sound like what they mean. I mean, and I think a lot of them do, but I think in a lot of languages you have that. For instance, to whisper is shushkin. Oh. Shushkin. That's intuitive. Yeah. And the shushkin sounds very shh short and kin, family.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:43

Totally. Yeah. Yeah. I'm shushing my family. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:47

Well, I wonder if you combine like that like intuitive, like on a poetic nature to you having the ancestry of it, it could just like flow through you. I think so. Because I could imagine if I actually learned the language, I might be like, okay, this is hard. I haven't studied German or whatever or Hebrew. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:05

Yeah, there's a whole different alphabet. There's a grammar that's different in a lot of ways from what we know, these sort of as they're called, grammatical cases.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:15

Anyway, but uh yeah, there are there are challenges to the language, but a lot of rewards. Yeah.

Teaching Yiddish And Finding Purpose

SPEAKER_00 1:02:23

Yeah, I'll be teaching it all every day this summer as part of this summer program in New York, the Evo Yiddish Summer Program.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:30

And how old are the students?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:31

They're this program admits students of any age. Of any age. So they're from I think there are even some high school students that do it, mostly college, to elderly people.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:43

And a nice intergenerational mix.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:45

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:46

That's just um in Australia doing various Yiddish programs, and there in Melbourne, there's this vibrant Yiddishist community.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:55

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:56

With actually a Jewish day school that teaches Yiddish, which really there's that's maybe the only one in the world. Most teach Hebrew, of course. And there's a youth movement that's or sort of oriented around Yiddish and socialism called Skiff. And coming from that place, I feel like now going to teach in this summer program, I feel newly inspired by the role Yiddish can have in people's lives and bringing that to people. So I'm looking forward to that.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:24

So, like coming to that idea of like the wisdom of languages and Yiddish, especially what like when you're talking to your students, like would you impart some idea of like, here's what it's given me, or here's what I think learning this could give you?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:40

Yeah. Um, it's really up to every student to figure out what it will mean to them.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:50

Um, for me, it's become a very important language of my own creativity. Yeah. And that's something I'm really appreciating lately. Some people come to it for political reasons, for a tradition of sort of leftism among Yiddish-speaking Jews, um, sort of Yiddish-speaking revolutionaries. Other people because it's in their family, other people because they've heard that there is this interesting new young movement of Yiddish speakers connecting to each other and they want to be a part of that. Um, so everyone finds their own ways into it. And I try not to determine, but give them all the options, sort of, I guess. Yeah. Because for some people it's the language of secularism, socialism, and for other people it is the language of their religiosity.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:36

Um so it's for each person to figure out, kind of. Yeah. And um yeah, that's a nice journey of discovery.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:46

The process, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:47

Yeah. Not only learning a language, but also what that language will mean to you and what you'll do with it.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:53

Yiddish, it's not always so intuitive. I mean, if you learn Spanish, oh, I'll go and speak Spanish with people in my community or in a Spanish-speaking country. Yiddish, there's not really a place you can go to a Yiddish land where you can immerse yourself in it so much.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:10

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:11

Would you ever start a Yiddish land?

SPEAKER_03 1:05:12

And that is your own community.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:14

I mean, that is, I feel the dream of a lot of young Yiddishists is to maybe live in community with each other and speak Yiddish to each other. I don't know. I feel like most utopian projects fail.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:29

So they kind of become the opposite. Right. Yeah. Somehow.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:34

Yeah. Like we were saying before, the language is itself its own homeland. Yeah. So maybe we don't need a homeland. Yeah. Um, where we can be at home in and through the language on the internet. I love that. Yeah. Or wherever you may find yourself among people who speak it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:55

Well, and you know what's funny, it's like one appreciates home kind of most when they're not. There in a way. Like, I think at least like it's like if I think of like meeting another American, if I'm like in Africa, it's like, oh my god. And it's like if I see another American here, it's like, who cares? Yeah. You know, or like the concept of that, like it almost like it. I don't know that it needs the physical location as much.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:23

I think. I think so. I think that's where maybe a lot of people err in thinking that they need necessarily um a physical location, borders, uh state apparatus. I don't know. That can be more trouble than it's worth, maybe. Totally. Yeah, totally. Um but yeah, I mean, maybe there should just be no borders, you know? Yeah, that's the real dream. That's the real dream. Absolutely. We're all at home everywhere with each other. Now that's utopian. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:01

But you can't sanction it. Yeah. It's something yeah, you can't regulate, yeah, plan necessarily. But we can throw out the vibes. Yeah. Prayer. Let this be our prayer. Yeah. Let us pray.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:14

What do you think? Like in terms of like the wisdom of languages, like after hearing this conversation or being in it, what do you think?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:21

I think the most interesting thing was kind of the curiosity of like kind of being intimate and exploring other people's languages. And if we were all doing that, things would just feel different. I think, I think, and I think America especially is so kind of like career-driven and capitalism and like accolade-driven, as I was saying. Like, how many languages do you know? How like do you have like a doctorate in this language?

SPEAKER_03 1:07:45

Yeah, it's like accumulation.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:47

Yeah, you're like, it's like something to show off versus like let's just all be open, let's all be at least like open to learning every language. None of us know any of them perfectly. We're all kind of gonna stumble, but it's okay. And I I probably weirdly being an English speaker and having that be, you know, the most universally, I guess, accepted language. Um, I probably have a little bit of a chip on my shoulder of feeling like I don't know that many languages. I feel self-conscious. I'm like uncultured. Yeah, hardly.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:20

And I'm like, yeah. No, you're not. I don't mean you are.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:25

Or maybe in terms of language specific. I listen to so much, I listen to so much Spanish music.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:30

Yeah, you do. You love your music in other languages.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:34

And I'll look up the lyrics.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:36

And yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:37

And if I knew all the languages, I wouldn't have to look up the lyrics. But I think Yeah, I I'm now rambling, but I think my I think that I think that's an I love that takeaway in terms of language and just everything. It's like approaching it through a lens of kind of curiosity and openness and vulnerability rather than kind of needing to know or to be right or to one-up the person next to you.

Learning Beyond Accolades And Grades

SPEAKER_00 1:09:00

That's very interesting how you connected the idea of sort of notching up languages to capitalism. Yeah, it is kind of if it's like that, it's like acquiring more and more wealth for like safety.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:15

So you're not out on the streets, you'll learn Yiddish.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:19

When really it's about something a little bit deeper, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I was uh interviewing a guy in Sydney recently. It was a linguist, a Yiddish linguist, and there's this oral history project of the Yiddish Book Centre that I conduct oral history interviews with them. And this guy, he is um uh proudly anti-American, is American, grew up in the US, but now lives in Australia after living in Israel for many years. And he actually, he and his wife, they're a cute elderly couple, they go out in Australia with Canadian flag pins on their hats or their lapels so that they don't get beat up for being American. Oh my god. I don't think they will be. Um they they don't want to be seen as Americans in today's climate. Anyway, he in the interview he said he would advise anyone who grows up in the US in a monolingual home to go running from that home.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:23

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:24

Like immediately. Yeah, children shouldn't be raised in a home with one language. He was raised in a home that had Yiddish, English, Hebrew, Polish. He says that's very nurturing for a person's development. Yeah, yeah. Um so he said you should go running screaming from a home where only one language is spoken. You know, that's a an extreme take. Yeah. But there is something I think, yeah, so beautiful in multilingualism. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:55

Yeah, I get his take. I I love a strong take. I don't quite agree because that would mean both of us have to run from our homes.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:01

Well, now, yeah, now I have to run from my home with you because we both speak English. I'm going running. I've got to run. So I can grow. Yeah. Yeah. But I I hear it. So I can finally grow.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:13

Yeah. And I do think it's like, if you think about like homes where it's like math is like a getting a good grade in math is like such a big thing. It is a bit of this, like, you've got to kind of accumulate this like accolade and this very like concrete sort of like, like you said, notch on your belt that's very measurable. As opposed to like allowing your child to like have an experience of self and other, you know, it's not something we do as much in this country, and it's tragic. Yeah, we're always measuring. Yeah, instead of letting go. Because I do think, like, especially this climate, none of us are experiencing each other enough. You know, it's just like I know everything about you, and it's bad, you know, like whatever other side you're on, instead of like the actual just lived experience of just like enjoy someone's presence, enter a space with them and communicate. And like anytime people do that, there's like more connection. You know, I I personally think like the human spirit is like able to get there everyone, you know, if they get that opportunity to connect. But I think that like our structure doesn't allow for that as much or encourage that.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:32

No, it doesn't. This this culture doesn't necessarily encourage that. I mean, learning another language in school is compulsory, but but are the kids taught why it's important at home also? Not necessarily. Yeah. And then it's sort of what is the point ultimately of their language learning? Um to get a good grade. Yeah, that I mean that's how a lot of people see it, I think this is dragging other people from my high school. But in our high school in our high school, we had to take Hebrew. Uh-huh. And some of us by the end of high school had done 12 years of Hebrew. We were all Hebrew speakers and could read and write. But when some of these uh kids went to college and they had to do a language requirement, they did beginner's Hebrew.

unknown 1:13:22

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:22

Because it was a guaranteed A easy.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:25

There are those people.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:27

Yeah. So if that's what you if that's what it is for you, yeah, the safety, the A, the material success in a way. Yeah. But it's gotta be about more than that. I kept hopping between languages in college. I before I really settled on one I wanted to learn. But every semester I took a language. It was just to me, it was fun. Yeah. And people should, yeah, also discover the fun in it.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:54

Totally. I'm like thinking if I were working with one of those people, that would be such a rich area to start like that choice. There's so much in that choice of like, you know, this language already, and you're gonna take the beginner's version. Yeah. Like, oh man, I would want to know everything about that. You know, like because it says so much about like not even necessarily what's important, but it's like your belief in self, your view of the world, your family expectations.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:22

Sure. Yeah. I mean, what are you thinking? So maybe you'll spend less time on that class in order to spend more time doing what?

SPEAKER_03 1:14:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:31

Learning German.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:32

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then there could be there probably, I'm sure there's a version of it that's valid where it's like certain other pressures on someone feel so heavy or whatever. But yeah, it's like, well, why should I take these?

SPEAKER_00 1:14:44

Yeah, we're not communicating really the the value of it. Yeah. Higher potential of it and the importance, I think. Yeah. So maybe this podcast will help.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:56

Yeah. Hopefully it will help. Well, this has been so interesting. Thank you so much for joining us.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:02

Thank you so much, Kellyanne Yash. It's been a real pleasure.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:05

So we'll move into our how wise is it segment. And

Are Audiobooks Real Reading?

SPEAKER_03 1:15:09

today we're asking how wise is it to listen to audiobooks. Our little yeah, our little harp sound. So yeah, okay, I'm curious. I am an audiobook girly, but I do read real books too.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:26

Am I? Audiobook girly? Ooh, I'm a girly. Okay. I'm not an audiobook though. Okay. Just a girly. We'll get there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:33

Yeah. Yeah. Josh. I just don't listen to any audiobooks.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:36

No, I'll either. Lately, I've just been um listening to so much music.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:40

Yeah. And what about you?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:42

And I'll read. I'm not an audiobook girly. I am a reading girly and a literature girly. But um I've I've enjoyed a couple audiobooks, and I would enjoy them if I did it. I just somehow I always have a book with me and reading it on the train in New York on a plane. You know, it's always um that's the companion I rely upon, and it's my first thought. But I could get into them. I've enjoyed on a road trip listening to Frankenstein. Ooh. And uh one point when the Harper Lee, you know, the sort of they released uh sequel to Mockingbird called Go Set a Watchman.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:30

Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:31

And Reese Witherspoon was narrating it. And I enjoy her and thought, okay, I'll I'll get the audiobook of that and listen to Reese do it. And she did a good job. Oh, I love that.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:41

So Yeah, they should have an actress do it.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:44

Yeah. Yeah. It should definitely be someone who and also very importantly, someone who can pronounce all of the foreign words or names that happen to be in the book.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:54

That I know is a problem with some Yiddish literature and translation and things about, and I'm sure every culture, but if the person is just kind of random person who's not enmeshed in that culture, they'll say half the words wrong.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:08

And it seems infuriating. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:10

And no one's fact-checking that.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:11

No. Yeah. Yeah, no one's out there fact-checking audiobooks. I'll tell you, as an audiobook early, I'm like, they need someone to give this a once over, and nobody's doing it.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:20

Yeah. Well kind of issue.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:22

Because I'll even notice like they'll pronounce a name in chapter one this way, and in chapter five this way. And I'm like, well, who didn't catch that? Like, I I sometimes I'm like, okay, this is like obsessive of me, but it bothers me. It's like I want to be immersed in the world. And I don't really want to like realize that this reader doesn't know really what they're talking about. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:46

So is it wise?

SPEAKER_03 1:17:48

So is it wise? Well, okay. And here's another this is something that complicates the narrative too. You know, like I I think people will, some people will have a problem with someone saying, Oh, I read five books this summer. And what they really did was listen to five books.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:08

There are people who get upset about it. We need to have, I think, maybe a new word. Yeah. Because reading to me is reading. Totally. But there's no word for ingesting a book. That's whether reading or audio. Consumed. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:24

I will say I listened to it on audiobook. Yeah. Which I don't even think that's a correct grammatical sentence. But I will say that I listened to it on audiobook.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:33

As an audiobook, girly. As an audiobook. I listen to an audiobook.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:38

There might need to be a new word, although we've had audiobooks for decades and we seem not to have come up with that as a culture. So maybe we don't need it. I don't know. But I feel like there's not a solution.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:48

Yeah. There should be a word that really because then you know you don't have to worry too much about people making claims or whatever. But you know, like you're going to ingest the material differently than if you're sitting with it reading it. Of course. Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:05

Yeah. And you'll, I remember, I mean, we shouldn't talk about Harry Potter. Um we can. But but we'll be here all night. I mean, I don't, I didn't I don't enjoy the creator of the Potter books anymore. But yeah, they were very important to us in our youth. Oh, yeah. I remember. And until the movies came out, we were saying characters' names wrong. We were saying them in our own way. Perme. Permione, whatever it was. Right. Until the movies came out, and we were like, ah, that's how you say that for me. Seamus Finnegan, is it Seamus? Seamus, I think. Oh my god. Yeah, you guys needed an Irish friend. So there's something special about that, about experiencing it in your own way. Yes. In your own voice, sort of. Yeah. That maybe you don't get from an audiobook, but there's other virtues of audiobook. You're experiencing the pleasure of someone's performance in addition to the author. Sure, yeah. So that's fun. That's another thing to appreciate.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:02

Yeah. The pleasure of saving your retinal power for um maximal brain uh power. Yeah. Other activities. I think I used to be so concerned that I would miss too much of the book. And I really haven't had any experience listening to audiobooks of books that I'm reading. I'll hear you listening to them secondhand.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:24

And based on how much I can follow while I'm not even trying to listen to them, I think I would be able to follow it.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:29

Totally. Well, I'm also not reading Warren Peace. No, you're not an audiobook. I'm like reading stupid shit.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:36

Which we could get into or not. Yeah, let's not. Is any literature stupid shit?

SPEAKER_02 1:20:41

Stupid is any literature stupid shit? That could also be a hot topic. Yeah. How wise is it to be stupid shit?

SPEAKER_00 1:20:47

I mean, how wise is it to mark some literature as high art and some as trash? Yeah. Not wise. That's another show.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:57

I don't like that distinction, but I almost do want a distinction. Right. I don't need no that it needs to be a judgmental one, but it's like No, it shouldn't be judgmental. Yeah. I'm proud of my trash. You can and I feel this about TV too. It's like I look there's so many shows we watch that are like truly like groundbreaking and really interesting. And then there's some that I watch where I'm like, am I getting number watching this? Or like I'm almost numbing out a little bit watching it. And that I actually talked about this in therapy today, um, my own therapy, that like I'm a person who doesn't numb out a lot and almost could stand to numb out a little bit more. And then I said to Josh, I was like, but she doesn't know about my books, which like I do numb out a little bit there. But you know, sometimes when you let yourself like feel the emotional weight of like everything in a day and everything going on, that's too much. And and like war and peace is not going to give me much comfort. And I do think yeah, and I think it's great to read something that's not so complex and still be reading, engaging with language on the page.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:12

Like War of the Worlds.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:14

Yeah, yeah. Not War in Peace, but War of the Worlds.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:18

Is that a book?

SPEAKER_02 1:22:19

Isn't it? Orson Wells.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:21

Oh, is it?

SPEAKER_02 1:22:22

No.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:22

Wait, or the H. G. Wells. H. G. Wells. Oh. It was a book, right? I mean, I remember it was also done as a radio drama, speaking of audiobooks, that had the whole country deathly afraid that there was an alien invasion. Like they were listening to it on their radios and it was presented almost as a news broadcast and they thought it was real.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:46

Didn't you just say you saw something on Fox News?

SPEAKER_03 1:22:50

Oh my god. It was like I swiped, I don't watch Fox News. I like when you know when your finger like swipes on your iPhone to like the news like headlines that are like Apple news. This one had a little Fox News tag and it said six people were or no people camping in Canada were chased by six Sasquatches. And I'm reading that, I'm like, wait, is this fake? That can't be right.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:16

It could be. It could be on Fox News.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:18

No, what's wrong with me that I didn't even click it? Well, also because I saw Fox News, I was like, this has gotta be the wrong story.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:25

Are they peddling?

SPEAKER_03 1:23:26

Yeah, right. It can make it sound like I'm watching and reading Fox News. No, I'm not. No. It just like popped up and I was like, what the hell? And then I haven't seen or heard anything about it since. But yeah, that is so interesting to present it like it's real. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. So do we think it's wise? I mean, I think it's wise. I'm just gonna say I don't think it's like the most meaningful activity I do. But I also don't think every activity I do has to be so like deeply meaningful and like emotionally moving for me. Sometimes it's like fun. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:07

I think it's wise for those who want that. Now that's from uh a book that I like, The Prime of Miss Jean Brody by Muriel Spark. But in that, Miss Jean Brody says, for those who like that sort of thing, that is the sort of thing that they like.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:20

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:20

Yeah. No judgment. No judgment. No judgment, exactly. So I think it's wise. Yeah. And I think uh if you don't like it, it's wise to try it because perhaps you will like it. Like most things, like many things. Right. Um I'll just do a plug.

Books To Check Out And Closing

SPEAKER_00 1:24:37

Yeah. Yeah. Because we were talking about trash literature. So I've uh you were at this talk I gave yesterday on these Yiddish detective stories from 1908 that I translated that are now out as a book. And they those are considered schund or trash literature in their day. But they're very fun, suspenseful detective stories um of Max Spitzkopf. So um, and apparently we'll we we will be recording an audiobook of it for those who like audiobooks.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:07

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:07

That I would be narrating.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:09

Oh my god, you're gonna narrate.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:12

Hopefully, that happening.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:13

And where can people get the translation now?

SPEAKER_00 1:25:15

They can get it anywhere. They sort of buy books online. Um the Yiddish Book Center is selling it on their website, but they can also get it from any other website. It's in some stores as well. Um so cool.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:27

I love that you're gonna get to record it and you get to experience Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:32

Get to have all the fun of telling these stories in the language I chose for them, bringing them to life, um, and also getting all of the Yiddish words right. Yes. Um so that's a virtue of hiring the writer, the translator to do it is they know what they're they know of which they speak.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:54

You know what's so funny? I'm just realizing in us talking about this, and it's funny that they would consider like a detective story trash. I guess, I guess some people do think of that. But you know, it's almost like what's really interesting are the people who get really bent out of shape about someone saying, I listened to an or I read and they listened to an audiobook. It's almost back to what we were saying with like accumulating books and having read books rather than like experiencing the stories one way or another.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:24

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:25

You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 1:26:25

Like experiencing the book could be a nice way of seeing my experience.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:30

I experienced that book recently. So I'm probably like, okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:34

And I experienced my wife experiencing a book.

unknown 1:26:37

Yeah, overheard.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:38

Overheard.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:39

Overheard from the bathroom.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:41

Oh my god, this is great. This has been a great experience.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:44

Yes, yes. We've experienced you. We've experienced each other.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:48

Yeah, we've experienced language. Yes, amazing. Okay, so you plugged the translation. Anything else you want to plug before we let you go?

SPEAKER_00 1:26:57

I'll plug that and my other translation, which they both came out in the past year, but um, that's the memoirs of a Yiddish actress, a pioneering Yiddish theater actress. She wrote it in the 20s, and the book is called The Mother of Yiddish Theatre: Memoirs of Esther Rochel Kaminska. Um so people can go out and find that too and experience this wonderful trailblazing woman's journey and her career and what she learned from it. That's a cool book.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:29

Nice. I love it. Okay. And Josh, where can people find you?

SPEAKER_02 1:27:34

People can find me at joshbayerfilms.com, Bayer is in the aspirin, and I'll edit your latest audiobook or even a real book.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:43

Edit an audiobook. Or a DOCO.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:45

Or a DACO. As they say in Australia, which I experienced last month. Now I can't stop saying experienced. But um, they all call docks docos. Daco. I love that.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:55

Daco is modern life. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Also, shout out the new Ice Age album. Woohoo! And the Boards of Canada. You know, if you know, if you don't know, you don't.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:04

The Boards of Canada is a band.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:06

Boards of Canada is electronic music. It's kind of like spacey NASA transmissions through a granular synth and creepy, but kind of slowed-down hip-hop beats. And then Ice Age, they're like these Danish vampires that make music that kind of sounds like the replacements. I was thinking about this on my run of like, how am I gonna do this fast?

SPEAKER_03 1:28:23

But you're always explaining the the music, like almost like a throwaway comment, yet it's incredibly like specific and like well articulated. It's just funny the way you're doing it.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:35

Anyway, I don't it's very nice to use your plug on other people's art.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:41

Yeah, I love I chose to do.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:43

Well, that's okay. I I have no art to promote.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:46

You do, though. You're always having easy worked on everything.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:49

Yeah, Rod Serling.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:51

Rod Serling. Check that out. Gotta sell it. But um, Kelly?

SPEAKER_03 1:28:56

Yeah, if you want to reach me, um, you can find me at kkpsychotherapy.com. And you can um, if you want to work with me, you can re out reach out to me there if you want to be on the pod, if you want to ask questions about the pod, give audiobook recommendations. Any thoughts on anything? Yeah, kkpsychotherapy.com. And thanks, shout out to blanketforks.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:19

Always for our music. He's he's probably influenced by Boards of Canada. Is he? Uh yeah, he likes them. Do you know blanket forks? That's Mike Esposito, who you met at my bachelor. Yeah, I remember Mike, of course. I did not realize he's playing the music over as we're talking right now.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:35

Yeah, so shout out to him and thanks everyone. We will see you next time.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:40

Next time. Thank you, Papa. Zeitgesund, be well.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:43

The Wisemind Happy Hour podcast is for entertainment purposes only, not to be treated as medical advice. If you are struggling with your mental health, please seek medical attention or counseling.