The DBT Consultation Agreement - Pt. 01

The Dialectical Behavior Therapy (DBT) consultation team agreements are the backbone of effective DBT consultation groups. Today we delve into 3 of these key agreements: 1) "no absolute truth, look for what’s left out," 2) "don't fragilize your clients" and 3) "leave room for multiple modalities."

- music by blanket forts -

Transcript

World Cup Loss And Reality Check

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Welcome to the Wise Mind Happy Hour. I'm Kelly. I'm John. Welcome, everyone. We're back. We took a week off.

SPEAKER_03 0:13

There's been a lot uh happening in the world.

SPEAKER_01 0:16

Uh yeah, the World Cup. Is that what you're thinking? Oh, the World Cup, yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 0:21

United States. Yikes.

SPEAKER_01 0:23

Yeah, what's going on with the United States? I'm not following. Oh, they lost.

SPEAKER_03 0:26

In epic fashion, really well.

SPEAKER_01 0:27

Who'd they play?

SPEAKER_03 0:28

Belgium.

unknown 0:30

Man.

SPEAKER_01 0:31

They were doing well, weren't they?

SPEAKER_03 0:32

They were doing well. And this is a now I'm not a soccer expert in any, you know, form. I did play growing up, and I will follow the World Cup. One thing that is consistent though is the men's team consistently not able to perform under the bright lights. Right. So they did do well in group play. Um, and then they beat Bosnia on the next stage after group play. And then yesterday they lost four to one to Belgium.

SPEAKER_01 1:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:02

And it was bad. A lot of mistakes. They didn't look good.

SPEAKER_01 1:06

Man.

SPEAKER_03 1:07

I know.

SPEAKER_01 1:07

Is Belgium typically good?

SPEAKER_03 1:09

So again, not somebody who follows it religiously by any means. They had a kind of like a golden generation of players that are a little bit on the older end of the spectrum now. They're ranked number nine in the world. Okay. Um something. Yeah, the FIFA ranking uh put them at nine. So they're top ten, and I think maybe four years ago was maybe their window where they really thought they were gonna like do it. Um that's my understanding. And most European teams just, you know, even the South American teams, they just dominate the United States. They're just not pretty good.

SPEAKER_01 1:48

Yeah, and it seems like that European teams like play more soccer.

SPEAKER_03 1:53

Well, they do, and they're playing year-round. Yeah, and the leagues are much more competitive than the MLS.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

Yeah, that's probably what it is. Like right, I imagine a professional soccer player in the US is still playing a lot of soccer, but they're not playing as competitive.

SPEAKER_03 2:05

They're not playing elite soccer, like the, you know, there's different leagues in different countries. So, you know, the Premier League in England is top-notch. Yeah, there's also a top German league, there's a um top league in in Spain, and you know, like all these yeah, I think it's La Liga in Spain. So there's all of these different teams that all these great players play on. And if you're lucky and you're an American, you can get on those teams. Like you have to be really good though.

SPEAKER_01 2:32

Right.

SPEAKER_03 2:32

But a lot of Americans play here, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:34

So and if you're in the World Cup, you've got to play for the country you naturalize.

SPEAKER_03 2:40

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 2:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 2:42

Anyway, it's just the the ongoing saga of disappointment for the American soccer fan. And the World Cup is still very exciting.

SPEAKER_01 2:50

Totally.

SPEAKER_03 2:51

I know.

SPEAKER_01 2:52

Would we even want the Americans to win that? Like, we don't really deserve to win anything.

SPEAKER_03 2:57

How was your fourth? Because mine felt very lackluster, and I'm not disappointed in that at all.

SPEAKER_01 3:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:04

Celebrating the fourth

Fourth Of July Without The Flag

SPEAKER_03 3:05

is kind of weird.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

Yeah, it's weird. You know what's funny is like I don't mind doing fourth, like going through the motions of like a barbecue. I like that too. And like a parade, we went with my nieces to a parade like in the neighborhood I grew up in. Where I noticed like an actual feeling of hesitation was the waving of the flag.

SPEAKER_03 3:25

Right.

SPEAKER_01 3:25

Like my mom was like, Do you want a little American flag for the parade?

SPEAKER_03 3:28

Right.

SPEAKER_01 3:29

And I was like, No, I think no. I'm good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:33

Yeah. I love a barbecue. Who doesn't? Yeah. We don't have to wait for the fourth, though. Right. And granted, I get it. I'm very privileged to live in this country, and there's so many things that this country uh has afforded me, and I am very aware of those things. It just in the current landscape feels weird to me.

SPEAKER_01 3:54

Even like the concept of like patriotism in general. It just like are you prone mode of being American? No.

SPEAKER_03 4:03

Look at the leadership. Like, look at the people piloting the plane right now. Sorry. Okay, so we're done. Uh thanks for tuning in. Blanketforts was the music and Josh Bear Films.com.

SPEAKER_01 4:17

Oh my god. Um, wait, what were we doing?

SPEAKER_03 4:20

No, I what I was saying is like the leadership is just so unbelievably inept. It just feels terrible.

SPEAKER_01 4:30

Yeah, it's almost like it's not even worth us. Like it's so obvious how horrendous it is. And it's like like you said, I feel lucky to live here and like enjoy the some of the perks of being American, especially if you're not, you know, an immigrant to this country. Well, right. But that's the other thing about it.

SPEAKER_03 4:54

I am gonna be a white man waving a flag in the streets of like, yeah, this country's so great. And I, not me personally, but white people, men specifically, have been the cruelest people in this country to everyone. Yeah. It just feels icky to me.

SPEAKER_01 5:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:17

To even, I don't that doesn't feel right.

SPEAKER_01 5:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:21

You know, I know it's not that simple, and that's just the way it feels.

SPEAKER_01 5:24

Yeah. It's like the actual Fourth of July. It's like it doesn't feel right to like really make it a celebration of the country, especially it was like 250.

SPEAKER_03 5:34

Oh, right. Yeah. Which like whatever the state fair or whatever flop that he had in Washington, DC. It's like, okay, come on.

SPEAKER_01 5:43

And you know, even if you like think about like 250 years ago, like I think even when we were young, we were fed a narrative about like the glory of those people in that time. And it's like, if you take a closer lens to that, there's atrocities left and right. Horrific. I mean, horrific human rights violations, galore, galore. So yeah, it's it is a tricky holiday.

SPEAKER_03 6:05

And those things are still going on, human rights violations. Yeah, we're not that far removed from a lot of horrendous things in this country. Um anyway, yeah, not to be hopeless.

SPEAKER_01 6:16

No, I don't even feel hopeless. Like, I actually felt like you did like totally fine about like not taking a flag and not.

SPEAKER_03 6:24

But be with family, do the barbecue. Yeah, that felt good. Enjoy the weather. Yeah, if you can.

SPEAKER_01 6:30

Yeah, totally. Yeah. Well, what else did you get up to over the week?

Grief And Saying Goodbye

SPEAKER_03 6:35

Uh, nothing much. Um, yeah. So we were scheduled to go to Minneapolis.

SPEAKER_00 6:43

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:44

That was like two weeks ago.

SPEAKER_00 6:45

Right.

SPEAKER_03 6:45

Yeah. Well, that trip ended up not happening actually because my my grandmother ended up going into hospice and she actually passed away.

SPEAKER_01 6:53

I did. Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. Yeah. So thank you.

SPEAKER_03 6:57

No, I appreciate it. Yeah, we we ended up recording. That was Tuesday, and then Wednesday, we were supposed to leave to go to Minneapolis. And I talked to my uncle and aunt, um, which is my grandmother's youngest son. And we were both like, we can't do this trip. You know, we gotta be in Milwaukee. So we all went to Milwaukee um to be with my family, and I was able to see my grandmother on Thursday um during the day in the hospital, and then she was moved to another facility, which was much more comfortable for her.

SPEAKER_04 7:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 7:32

Um yeah, and we were able to see her again um Saturday. I think it was Saturday, and and the boys both wanted to go. Um, and so you know, we took the boys, Sarah and I took the boys, their cousins were there, so everybody was able to say goodbye. Everybody was able to see her, and then Sunday mid-morning, I got a call from my mom. She had passed on Sunday. So um, so yeah, the funeral will be this this coming weekend. So wow. So yeah, it's been uh she's been in very good health. She was 91, very, you know, pretty much good health like most of her life, and then uh the past year, especially since my grandfather passed away last summer, is a year of kind of uh, you know, I think a part of you when you're partnered for that long, right? I can imagine that that is just devastating, devastating. Yeah. But she was a wonderful woman and a strong woman. She was a business owner, she was a trailblazer, very liberal, um, still involved in politics and volunteering, and and she was a wonderful grandmother. So I'm glad that my boys were able to have a great grandmother experience and great grandparent experience. They've had a lot of great grandparents, they have one left. So this was my last grandparent to pass away, and I'm gonna be 44. That's pretty good. It's really good. And my paternal grandfather died when I was 20. So I was like a sophomore in college. Yeah, my other grandparents lived, I mean, into their 90s. So and Sarah's grandfather's 101.

SPEAKER_01 9:14

Oh my god, God bless.

SPEAKER_03 9:17

Yes. So it's been a time certainly of reflecting and grieving and also appreciation for my kids being able to have a great grandparent experience and knowing them and and them still being cognizant and and well aware of who they are as individuals.

SPEAKER_01 9:34

That's like incredible. I mean, my last grandparent died when I was 17. Yeah. So it's like I haven't had grandparents in front forever. You know, like Josh always spends a lot of time with his grandparents, like calling them a lot. Like it's like I can't relate to even the sense of like, oh, gotta make sure I check in with the grandparents' grandparents. It's like I can't relate to that.

SPEAKER_03 9:56

It's I mean, amazing that they lived that long, and also just the cognition, just being present along with the the physical health and being able to be mobile and and go to events and uh you know, be at people's houses, and but also just engage in a conversation and still be following current events and you know, it's great. It's great.

SPEAKER_00 10:22

Be sharp, so you're so lucky if you definitely.

SPEAKER_03 10:25

So it's been a rough, you know, two-week uh span. Oh, well, I'm sorry. That's okay. Yeah, I didn't know if I was gonna bring it up, and it was like, that's all you've been doing the past two weeks. What else are you gonna say? Well, that's so not that I was gonna lie about it, I just was thinking on my way over, am I gonna say it? What else would I say? That's really what's going on. Yeah, do you want to break from it and just not talk about it? Yeah, it was kind of like tossing back and forth. So totally.

SPEAKER_01 10:52

Well, I'm glad you did. Yeah, but also if you didn't, that would have been okay too.

SPEAKER_03 10:56

Yeah, no. Oh

Niece Energy And Uncle Boundaries

SPEAKER_03 10:57

man. But you had visitors this past we did.

SPEAKER_01 10:59

We yeah, they didn't actually stay at our house. My nieces, it's so funny. My nieces like it feels like they run my life, and that I like that, but yeah, that when they come, that's like why we did part of why we didn't record, you know, and they uh yeah, like when they're in town, we really try to see them a lot. For sure. And it was nice. This visit was nice. I mean, they are at this point, they are fully obsessed with Josh. Perfect, like to the point where I've had to kind of put up some boundaries around like how much they want him to like carry them and do physical labor.

SPEAKER_03 11:37

Oh, the physical, yeah. You're like a jungle gym to them. A jungle Josh, a jungle Josh.

SPEAKER_01 11:42

You you really are. So would go up to you and just say, like, down, and she would want him to like get down on his knees so she could go on his shoulders. She would literally like it was a dog.

SPEAKER_03 11:51

It's a young man's game, Josh. She kind of cucked me in front of the phone.

SPEAKER_01 11:55

She kind of domed you.

SPEAKER_03 11:57

Oh, that's hilarious. Now wait, how old is she?

SPEAKER_01 12:01

She is about to be six.

SPEAKER_03 12:02

Oh man.

SPEAKER_01 12:03

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:04

They are and don't don't do something cool once. Because if you do it cool once, you're gonna be doing it a thousand times ad nauseum.

SPEAKER_01 12:13

Yeah. I've done multiple cool things.

SPEAKER_03 12:15

That's why it's a young person's game.

SPEAKER_01 12:18

Yeah, totally being an uncle.

SPEAKER_03 12:20

Being an uncle.

SPEAKER_01 12:21

Yeah. They came in here, they loved our new place. And the second they came in, they were like, you know, all over. And they ran up to get Josh. Where are you? Are you hiding? Like, ran up there while he was like finishing a little bit of work. And then they all come down, and my niece Need, the middle one, she goes, I just need a screwdriver for Fia. Fia's the three-year-old. I was like, A screwdriver for Fia.

SPEAKER_03 12:47

Was she gonna hang some of this art?

SPEAKER_01 12:48

That's I don't know what they wanted to they wanted to help Josh fix something.

SPEAKER_02 12:53

Well, they wanted to help me build the dresser. Yes. Because you told them that's what you were doing.

SPEAKER_03 12:58

Did you take them up on that often?

SPEAKER_02 13:00

I told them it would take many hours, and they said, Well, we could at least just get a start. So cute I like the energy.

SPEAKER_01 13:05

Yeah, totally. They do like to be helpful. I just want to help. Yeah. So they each got a screwdriver, and now there are some scratches around the place. Why not? It's fine. And we took them down to the farmer's market here at the Logan Square Farmers, which was great. And it's funny, like my cousin's daughter, Grace, I hadn't seen in a while, and she so I was like interacting with her and like chatting with her, and and that was fun. But like they were not loving like my kind of closeness with her. I think they were a little like like she showed me some awards she got. It was like the Smarty Pants Award. And you know, immediately Cersei was like, Well, I won an award at school, you know, which is cute. But yeah, it's like an interesting, I'm like, it's gonna be so interesting. God bless we have a kid, like what the vibe will be, you know. Because your your nephews are older than your sons. Yes, yeah. What was that like to become like fun uncle with no kids to like uncle with his own kids?

SPEAKER_03 14:02

Fun uncle with no kids is a joy. Yeah. In a lot of ways, because you really are just that fun all the time. They want to interact with you, they want to do stuff with you. And then when you have a kid, I feel like the nephews were a little bit just obsessed with the babies. The kid, yeah. You know, they become obsessed with the new addition to the family, so they always want to be around and they want to hold the baby, which is cute and fun, and depending on age, like you can do that. Yeah, I think though they do kind of understand in a way, like once you're a parent, you're just not as available. Yeah, there's like some it's never really explicitly said, I think they just kind of get it. Yeah, they sense it's like, oh, a baby takes a lot of attention. I get that.

SPEAKER_01 14:49

Yeah, it was really fun. It is so fun this this phase of life and getting to like really be present with them. I love that.

SPEAKER_02 14:57

Being a Zunkle?

SPEAKER_01 14:58

Being a Zunkle, yeah. No, a Funkel. A Funkel.

SPEAKER_03 15:01

You're the Funkal.

SPEAKER_01 15:02

He was going the Zaddy route.

SPEAKER_02 15:03

Welcome to Funkaland.

SPEAKER_03 15:04

Funkal.

SPEAKER_01 15:05

Trying to think. I mean, we got some oh, we got new nightstands for upstairs, which was kind of a nightmare getting there.

SPEAKER_03 15:13

Are they cool? Remember, we talked about cool, they're pretty damn cool.

SPEAKER_01 15:18

Yeah, I really I'm happy with them, but I am still thinking about

Buying Cool Stuff Versus Creating

SPEAKER_01 15:24

that concept. Like, I'm aware of like I don't want to confuse like buying shit for being creative in my life, you know, like just purchasing things that are uh cool or what I think is tasteful versus like having creative practices, like creation, you know, because it's like I think sometimes people think that like buying stuff like clothes or decor or whatever is like what we trick ourselves into thinking it's not just like consumption, which is like the opposite of creation.

SPEAKER_03 15:59

You package it as something else, yeah. Like I'm a creative spender, right?

SPEAKER_01 16:04

And it's like, oh, I have a I've curated all this cool stuff on my Instagram. It's like it's not the same as like contributing creativity to the world. It's like definitely not in the age of the 2D image on social media, everyone's like looking at like a lifestyle they want. You know, they almost want to look like I'm I fall into this. Like, I want to look like I'm an artist, like living in Paris instead of like making art, just make art, you know, like it's like I need to be in the scenery and there's no art being made, which is much cooler than looking like an artist. Yes, totally.

SPEAKER_03 16:45

Being an artist, being creative in your life, being creative is much cooler than trying to appear it.

SPEAKER_01 16:53

Even like as a therapist, like, and I know you know this, it's like there are all these opportunities like to be creative with a client. Like if you come up with some idea, like they click into a concept, right? Even like we're gonna talk about DBT concepts today. You know, they click in and it starts to really resonate. Then you two can creatively come up with like ways to practice that will help like tighten the concept and and make it more lived in and embodied. Like, there's all these opportunities to actually be creative in life. And I'm like, I I think that I want to like look like I'm a creative person and I'm not I'm doing more of the looking like than the being. And I notice if I actually engage in creative activity, it makes me happier. There you go, it makes me more vital in my body. I feel that, and it doesn't mean I'm suddenly gonna like not care about home decor. I'm like still gonna care about it, but I don't want to overvalue it and obsess about it. Don't obsess about it, yeah. And I brought this up now for like 17 podcasts, so I don't need to keep working on this.

SPEAKER_03 18:02

It's not worthwhile to obsess about it.

SPEAKER_01 18:05

Yeah, no, it isn't, and it's like I want more creativity. I keep still thinking about this, like with the sub stack, I have not yet started. Like, I do want there to be a creative practice in that when I do finally start that, whether it's a sub stack or a newsletter of some kind. Yeah, I really value it. I guess creativity is a value, a big value of mine. It sounds like it. A top value.

SPEAKER_03 18:29

It sounds like it. Yeah, so at least right now, yeah.

Nightstands And The Home Aesthetic Spiral

SPEAKER_01 18:33

But the but the the nightstands are cool, they're mirrored, so they're all mirrored, which is kind of cool. Kind of a metallic-y art deco vibe in there, which is cool. So, yeah, do you like them even though it was a pain in the ass?

SPEAKER_02 18:48

They're so huge, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:49

They're big. It's nice to have big nightstands. Whoa. Have you ever had you ever lived that kind of life? Yeah, they have two drawers each. Nice. It's it feels pretty official. Well, especially because like mid-century stuff on like our deco stuff or other styles is so small by nature. You know, it's like minimal and kind of like miniature, yes, right? Would you say the king of mid-century over there making the null documentary?

SPEAKER_02 19:15

Oh, um, does it need to be small?

SPEAKER_01 19:18

Not all of it is, but it's like low boy to the ground, you know, a couch that's like even though like sunken in floor, you know, in Madden.

SPEAKER_02 19:28

I know, no, it's an interesting question. I haven't really thought about size.

SPEAKER_01 19:33

Well, if you think of like if you look up mid-century tables, or like West Elm is all mid-century, their tables are a lot smaller than like pottery barn tables, even though it's the same company. It's the two styles, like there's like a smaller plank of wood, you know, for West Elm. Right. Mid-century is this like minimal miniature clean line. And these are our deco, which is a little more like va va-voom, you know, like kind of like the metallic-y, like loud thing. So there's a lot of space in those dressers, and man, it feels good.

SPEAKER_02 20:09

You reach your arm across, you can barely get to the the other side.

SPEAKER_01 20:13

Yeah, you can put a lamp on there and you barely even know it's there. Or it's not your way, at least.

SPEAKER_03 20:18

I feel like mine's maybe mid in my nightstand in terms of size. Yeah. It's I don't know how I'm sure there's a name for this uh style. Yeah, what does it look like? The tabletop or whatever you would call it, has a drawer, and then on the bottom it comes out a little bit further, just a little bit, and that has a drawer. And so you can almost put things underneath and hide it. I found it at a thrift store. Um, so I can stack a lot of books on that, which opens up the top for like my charger, my lamp, yeah, you know, like that type of stuff. So I don't know what it's called. Um, but it's it's not like huge, but it definitely has enough space for it. And I like how it's it comes out a little bit further in the bottom.

SPEAKER_01 21:02

Almost like, okay, maybe this is wrong, but almost like a staircase. Yeah. Okay, yes. Now I do believe that is some kind of mid-century. Is it but it's like almost like Italian mid-century, which is different.

SPEAKER_03 21:16

When I saw it, I was like, there's gotta be something broken on it. Why hasn't somebody bought this already? Yeah, and then when I looked it over, the back, you know that little piece, it's almost it's like particle board on the back. It was just coming out a little, so I took a carpenter nail when I got it home and I fixed it. Yeah, it was fine. Wow, it was a fine, it was a gem.

SPEAKER_01 21:37

I mean, if you ever felt motivated to snap a picture of it. I'll take a picture of it. I would love to see it. Yeah, I'll take a picture of it. Oh, that because I've been actually looking at some of those and they're pretty expensive online.

SPEAKER_03 21:46

It was very affordable. I probably paid 60 to 80 if I remember correctly. Wow, not bad. It wasn't bad.

SPEAKER_01 21:54

Um not bad for something that might truly be like an Italian antique.

SPEAKER_03 21:58

I don't need another one now. It's not going anywhere. I like it.

SPEAKER_01 22:02

Does Sarah have a different one?

SPEAKER_03 22:03

She has a almost like a mini dresser. It's three very small drawers. It's an old three drawers with the top of it holds it's big enough to hold enough stuff. Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:19

Some people go that route where you really just put a dresser next to the bed. What thoughts on that? I think that's great. You're not getting that much table.

SPEAKER_03 22:31

We're not living what you're living, which it sounds like you have a lot of space on yourself.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

Well, honestly, we might be rocking what Sarah has. Like it Josh.

SPEAKER_03 22:38

Hers is long though. It's not like super long, it's more narrow than it is. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:43

So yeah, she probably has a little more space. Ours is like a square.

SPEAKER_03 22:46

Is it a square? Yeah. I think I would prefer prefer a square, actually. Yeah. It's kind of nice. Because then it's if it's too long, you don't want to be like reaching and then knocking stuff over. Right.

SPEAKER_01 22:56

Which Josh said it was happening for him.

SPEAKER_03 22:59

Oh, you're getting used to it.

SPEAKER_02 23:01

I put my book on there. I can't find the book.

SPEAKER_03 23:03

Yeah. I'm knocking stuff over all the time on my nightstand. I'm tripping over stuff.

SPEAKER_01 23:08

Oh my god. I used to use that circular thing.

SPEAKER_03 23:11

As your nightstand?

SPEAKER_01 23:12

That thing is a goddamn piece of shit. Like it just nothing fits on it.

SPEAKER_03 23:17

Yeah, that's the problem with circles.

SPEAKER_01 23:18

Oh, and it's heavy. Remember, I I had it delivered to our old workplace. And it was like a thousand pounds. You have to carry it. I hoped you carry it. Yeah. Oh my god, what a nightmare. Manual labor.

SPEAKER_03 23:29

Speaking of that. Okay. Wait, keep going on your nightstands.

SPEAKER_01 23:33

I don't actually think I had anything else.

SPEAKER_03 23:34

Wes' birthday is coming

The Strong Neighbor Who Saved The Day

SPEAKER_03 23:36

up. And one thing we really wanted was we wanted to get him a new his bed frame is completely shot. It was a bed frame that Sarah and I used when we first met. It's just like old. Yeah, it's nice. It served its purpose. Yeah. And we were, we were like, okay, it's time to get him a new bed frame. So we bought it and it actually got delivered today in a box. It's so heavy. The box is so heavy. I don't know how we're going to move this. And they dropped it off at the bottom. You've been to our place. So at the bottom of the those concrete stairs.

SPEAKER_01 24:06

Oh my god. And I'm like, we that's been our life.

SPEAKER_03 24:08

I'm like, damn, I don't know how we're gonna do this.

SPEAKER_01 24:11

Well, what we didn't see opened it.

SPEAKER_03 24:12

And I'm looking at the box. I I am like moving it around. It's so heavy. And it's one box. So you can imagine it's a whole bed frame in one box. And I'm like, ugh. As I'm looking at it, this guy pulls up in a car and is parallel parking in the front of my house. And I look inside the car and I'm thinking to myself, this guy looks pretty big. I'm gonna ask him. So he gets out of his car and uh and I said, Hey, I was like, You look pretty strong. I was like, Can you help me with something? And he he looks over at me. He's got the man bun up, the shirt cut off. Like he looks like he just was done working out.

SPEAKER_01 24:50

Oh my god, I love it.

SPEAKER_03 24:52

And he's like, What do you need help with? And he walks over. I'm like, I'm John.

SPEAKER_01 24:56

He's got a man button, he's willing to help.

SPEAKER_03 24:58

He's got the sunglasses on, he's got the water bottle, the backpack, got his workout clothes on. I said, I'm John, I'm Jason. What do you need? I said, This box, they dropped it off here. Can you help me move it up?

SPEAKER_01 25:11

So heavy.

SPEAKER_03 25:12

Just you don't have to just put it by my door so I can slide it in. I was like, sure. He's like, let's see what we're working with. He bends down and picks it up by himself.

SPEAKER_01 25:21

Oh my god, this guy's he's single.

SPEAKER_03 25:23

And he goes, he goes, I think I could do it by myself. I said, I'm more than willing. I'm more than willing to help you. You're doing me such a solid.

SPEAKER_01 25:33

I'll help you.

SPEAKER_03 25:35

You're doing me a solid here. He's like, I got it. He bends down like he's literally one of those Olympians.

SPEAKER_00 25:44

Good God.

SPEAKER_03 25:45

Picks up the box, carries it up those six concrete stairs, puts it right by my door.

SPEAKER_01 25:50

Wow. And I would have offered to pay him to put it together. Do you think he would eat it?

SPEAKER_03 25:55

I was like, thank you so much for doing that. And we shook hands again. He's like, always happy to help a neighbor. I was like, thanks.

SPEAKER_00 26:01

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 26:02

I have no idea where he lives. He walked down the street.

SPEAKER_00 26:04

He like went down the steps and disappeared.

SPEAKER_03 26:06

Yeah. Incredible timing that I'm looking at this and he's parallel parking right in front. Wow. And I did that one other time when I was trying to move a TV and some guy was walking down the street and I just said, Hey, I know this is a weird question. Could you help me with this? I'm really struggling. Guy was like, sure. And help me.

SPEAKER_01 26:23

Wow. That is really nice.

SPEAKER_03 26:26

Jason, if you're listening. Jason, you're you're prince among men. You are a hero. A hero. Did it by himself. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 26:35

I mean, that is the start of like a porno.

SPEAKER_03 26:39

What are we working with here? That's what he said.

SPEAKER_01 26:41

What are we working with? What are we working with here? And he likes puts it on his turkey.

SPEAKER_03 26:45

What you're working with is a scrawny guy that can't lift anything. Can you do this for me? Yeah. It was great. So anyway, talking about furniture. But that was our next move is probably take it out of the box.

SPEAKER_01 26:57

Well, good for you for asking.

SPEAKER_03 26:59

What do we got to lose? He would say no.

SPEAKER_01 27:01

You're right. There's really not much to lose. Or just like F off weirdo. Yeah. Or give the wrong message, you know.

SPEAKER_03 27:10

I mean, I guess I came across pretty strong by saying you look pretty strong.

SPEAKER_01 27:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:14

I could have just said I need help.

SPEAKER_01 27:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:16

I wanted to give him the compliment. I wanted to give him the compliment first. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:21

He looked incredibly strong and really personally. Obviously, fit the build.

SPEAKER_03 27:25

He looked really strong and he was really strong. He did it by himself. Yeah. Those types of moments sometimes restore my faith in humanity. Absolutely. That this guy could have easily been like, go fuck yourself.

SPEAKER_01 27:38

That wouldn't even dash my hopes for humanity. I'd be like, fair enough. Fair enough. Would you have ever, like on any level, wanted to like take it further and like become friends? No. Well, actually, this kind of segues us a bit into what we're going to talk about. I don't think it does, but it does actually. Because it's like common humanity. It's like agreements between social groups. Oh, okay. Okay. I mean, I'm going to find a way to like gymnastic it together. You gotta for our audience. Yeah.

Why DBT Consultation Agreements Matter

SPEAKER_01 28:06

And today we're talking about something called the DBT consultation team agreements. So we can explain what this is. Now, I haven't like directly engaged with these since we worked together and had a consultation, a DBT-specific consultation.

SPEAKER_03 28:23

A specific DBT one.

SPEAKER_01 28:24

Right. Which is, you know, a therapy consultation is a group space, group like meeting where you consult on cases that you feel stuck with, right? Or struggling with. Sometimes it can be like cases you just present, but it's usually in the spirit of trying to get help from your fellow clinicians. Yes. And a DBT consultation is unique because there's all these kind of like DBT coded rules that you follow in it.

SPEAKER_03 28:58

A consultation group that at least has agreements is the most useful one where everyone is on the same page. I think it when it's too informal or people come in and it's a little bit okay, we're just going to talk about cases. What do you have? I not that that's can't be useful. I think though, if you're really getting a team of clinicians together, for me, I think it's most effective to have some sort of agreements that everybody reads over and you can refer back to is, I think, a really big way to contain it, but also use the time the most effectively.

SPEAKER_01 29:32

I will say, too, especially because I'm in private practice, like I'm kind of a bit of a whore for like any consultation. Any consultation. Because it's in it's part networking, it's part getting help. I don't work with a team, I work on my own. So it is really nice to have a bunch of different ones, and I've participated in a bunch, and some are regular. But a lot of times, even though we're all like pretty seasoned professionals who like are seasoned enough to have our own practices, how often one person just like dominates the whole thing? Yeah. And like, yeah, there isn't really agreements that help structure it and steer you out of unhelpful stuff.

SPEAKER_03 30:14

And it's also something where if people truly adhere to the agreements, when somebody call not call, I don't want to say calls the person out. When it does get off track, though, it's something to come back to where everybody can hold each other accountable for it, right? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 30:30

And as a group, you do that.

SPEAKER_03 30:31

Yeah. So that can make, if it is uncomfortable for people to give maybe more direct feedback, it is a way to come back to the agreements and say, Here's what we agreed on. Yeah, I think that sounds like a judgment. We're we're maybe using judgmental language here, or let's hold the dialectic and maybe view this from that there could be truth in this other way.

SPEAKER_01 30:51

So maybe what we can do is read these agreements. Meaning what we often did was we would pick one to focus on each week that we did it and kind of really keep that in mind. But you always keep all of them in mind because they're all the agreements. But we'll kind of go through them and talk about because I think these agreements, it's like in the consultation setting, are so important, but there's so many spaces where this is a great thing to commit to in almost any like social interaction. And DBT, of course, like is dialectical behavior therapy.

SPEAKER_03 31:23

And these were the six consultation team agreements sent forth by Marshall Linahan and cognitive behavioral therapy for personality disorders, which came out in '93.

SPEAKER_01 31:32

Yeah, before she even called it DBT.

SPEAKER_03 31:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:35

Do you want me to read the

Agreement One Dialectics And The And

SPEAKER_03 31:36

first one?

SPEAKER_01 31:36

Yeah, you read the first one.

SPEAKER_03 31:37

Okay, so number one, dialectical agreement. We agree to accept a dialectical philosophy. There is no absolute truth. When caught between two conflicting opinions, we agree to look for the truth in both positions as what's being left out.

SPEAKER_01 31:54

You know, this is number one for a reason. For a reason. And I do like the way that's language of there's no absolute truth. When one person speaks or gives like a perspective in a consultation, we want to hold it as lightly as anyone else's offering and not treat any one thing as the absolute truth. Right. There is no absolute truth. There's different ways to look, and there's like a kernel of truth in basically everything.

SPEAKER_03 32:25

But also the patient or the client that we're speaking of or consulting on, can we look at whatever they're experiencing with those and statements as well?

SPEAKER_01 32:35

Yes. Right. Yeah, talk about the and statement.

SPEAKER_03 32:37

Well, this person is anxious and they're always going to be anxious. Yeah. And, right, so we're using a dialectic. Yeah. And maybe the way they've been relating to their anxiety by avoiding or whatever the behavior is might have been serving them, right? There might have been gains to that. So we can hold that, yes, this person seems like they're terminally anxious, maybe. That's what it feels like in the session. Yeah. As an example. And let's look at some of the behaviors they've been engaging in. Maybe they've really been getting something out of that. Yeah. Right. So there is truth to maybe they've been functioning the best they could, yeah, given their life circumstances. Yeah. So I think it also holds it's almost like that. Uh, what's that? I know you hate this. Um, but what's that improv game where everybody says a sentence and then you say and and then you add on to it, right? And and it's supposed to open things up instead of closing things off. Right. So that exercise of you don't want to leave something like kind of unturned, right? You you always want to put an and there to keep the conversation going. And so holding these dialectics is also a way for us to say, yes, that's valid. And there might be another way of viewing this.

SPEAKER_01 33:51

Sometimes I my brain snags a little on, like we look for the truth in both both positions and consider what's being left out. What does that part mean to you?

SPEAKER_03 34:02

What's being left out?

SPEAKER_01 34:03

Yeah. Like the truth. I almost want an example with that. Because I wonder if my thinking of it might not be totally correct. But if I think of like in consultation, right, if you're discussing a case and two people have two different like conceptualizations of it, you look for the truth in both, like, or basically the validity in both.

SPEAKER_03 34:27

And there could be truth in both.

SPEAKER_01 34:29

Almost like there is somewhere. And when is it then what's the what's being left out? Is it what's left out of this one, what's left out of this one? And that will lead us to something.

SPEAKER_03 34:42

I don't read it like that. Yeah, how do you I kind of read it as even when we're holding a dialectic and holding that two truths can coexist in the same space, there could also be a third alternative.

SPEAKER_00 34:54

Totally.

SPEAKER_03 34:54

At least that's the way that I read it. Fourth, fourth, fifth, like, yeah. Even when everyone is okay, you have your conceptualization, you have yours, or even in the consultation, if everybody's on the same page, there's always more to maybe explore.

SPEAKER_00 35:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:11

Not in like, I don't know. I always think of what's being left out as just something to keep on the periphery, not like you have to grind it out.

SPEAKER_01 35:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:19

Just always be curious.

SPEAKER_01 35:20

Or like something's always going to be something is always going to be left out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:25

Stay curious.

SPEAKER_01 35:26

And maybe even if we think outside of consultation, it almost makes sense too. And like, let's say it's like a like, well, you're a parent, like a dad and a son.

SPEAKER_03 35:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:35

And you're like, you need to go to bed at this time for your health. And your kid's like, I need to go to bed at this time for fun and to feel good and my well-being in that way. Yeah. It's sort of like there's truth in both of those positions. For sure. What's being left out? Yeah. Well, maybe almost like the harm in both positions is worth looking at too dialectically.

SPEAKER_03 35:59

Well, that's the thing. Like, really adhering to there's only two.

SPEAKER_01 36:03

Yeah. There's many.

SPEAKER_03 36:05

There's many.

SPEAKER_01 36:06

Many truths. And like accepting a dialectical philosophy is really allowing things to contradict. Contradict. Like making contradiction itself a truth.

SPEAKER_03 36:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:16

That's really it's not only in DBT like important, it's essential to healing to hold dialectics and live in the tension of them.

SPEAKER_03 36:26

Because when we think about the dialectic, right, the main kind of dialectic between acceptance and change, but there's also just wise mind at large as an example of that, right? The emotion and the rational are in the same or you know, occupying the same space. So are we in a wise-minded place in our position with this? Or is something else leaning us in a different direction? I think there's a lot of ways to interpret this.

SPEAKER_01 36:50

And the core being that agreement to hold the dialectical philosophy.

SPEAKER_03 36:55

For sure. Okay. But other clinicians should chat us.

SPEAKER_01 36:59

I mean, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:00

Contact us, let us know what they feel like, what's being left out. Yeah. Did you want me to read the next one?

SPEAKER_01 37:04

And if you come for us, just know that that will be you not holding a dialectical philosophy on this agreement. Oh. So be warned. Be warned. Just kidding. We I mean, I welcome the tension. I welcome someone to contradict me on this. I do too. Because it will it will help us. I like to be. I heard this once a long time ago from someone who was like touring a church or something and like giving facts about it. The tour guy gave all these facts, and then they said, you know, but I might not be right about that. So if you've heard something else, please let me know. They said, I love to be wrong. It sets me free. But let's, in the interest of time, we'll go to number two.

Agreement Two Stop Treating People Fragile

SPEAKER_01 37:41

The second agreement. I'll read this one. The consultation to the patient agreement. We agree that the primary goal of this group is to improve our own skills as DBT therapists and not to serve as a go-between for patients to each other. We agree to not treat patients or each other as fragile. This is a big one. We agree to treat other group members with the belief that others can speak on their own behalf. It can come up, you know, fragilizing patients or other clinicians. We can feel, I mean, I feel like this comes up in my life so much. Like couching what I'm gonna say, couching my truth out of this like assumption of what the other person's gonna that the other person's not gonna be able to handle the truth that I feel or be or like be so upset that I can't handle it in their reaction.

SPEAKER_03 38:33

Right. Yeah. When we're speaking with other clinicians, what what's keeping us back from being honest or giving feedback? It's probably those private events that are uncomfortable. The anxiety of saying to somebody, Well, I actually think this, right? Or I might disagree because, oh, that might create conflict between me and this other clinician. Or so even to not fragilize, certainly be respectful and kind. And this person might really appreciate that feedback, right? They're able to hear that probably. Let's not make assumptions that they can't hear that, right? Right.

SPEAKER_00 39:09

Right.

SPEAKER_03 39:09

And we see this all the time in training clinicians. I don't want to redirect a patient.

SPEAKER_01 39:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:15

I don't want to notice a behavior with them that's uncomfortable. I feel like I'm calling them out. They're gonna be mad at me, right? We all, I mean, myself included, I think that's always a growth edge for us. But I think then, right, we treat the patient as fragile or we assume they're gonna respond in a certain way.

SPEAKER_01 39:37

And this is like a commitment in this agreement to directness and honesty. And there is right, like it's like you're trading that like I'm gonna be gentle and nice with like I'm gonna respect the other person in the space. Right. And trust them rather than fragilize them, trust them to handle this, to speak on their own behalf and too.

SPEAKER_03 40:01

And you've probably been a part of this too. A lot of case consultations that don't have these types of agreements or tenants or whatever you want to call it, pillars, it ends up being somebody presenting a case and then everybody saying how great they are. Yeah. And that's great. Oh, like that's that's a nightmare. It's great in like let's make everybody feel good. Yeah. But that's not a consultation, right? It's it's really a book report. Yeah, it's a book report. Yeah. Or is or a case study. It's not even really a case conceptualization. Right. And so I think that this is a much more vulnerable space of you're already coming in being vulnerable by saying we're gonna talk about this case because I'm struggling with it. And at the same time, this isn't a moment for us to just be like, oh, you're doing great, and just keep doing what you're doing. And yeah, we again we can treat people with kindness in these consultations and and certainly point out the areas where we feel like there's a lot of strength. And the the whole point of it is to get that help and that total act. Totally. Therapists just a lot of times just want to be nice all the time.

SPEAKER_01 41:02

Or there could be fear of being vulnerable. Right. Yeah, yeah, because they're therapists. They're therapists, they just want to be nice to be able to do that. They want to be nice, yeah. That's what is so interesting about the DBT agreements. They're a little bit provocative, which is really healthy for the stereotypical therapy personality, which is pretty empathic and pretty gentle and maybe sometimes a little people pleasing.

SPEAKER_00 41:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:27

And you know, to to have these really strong agreements that you commit to with a sense of integrity, yeah, is huge. And I always I I will say this, like maybe this is this is maybe kind of a judgment, or I think it's an observation. Like when I've worked with people who really embrace stuff like this, like you, like me, there was so much like integrity in the room where I would consult this way. And it felt really good to talk about cases from a place of like real respect for the act of consulting clinical practice itself. And yeah, a lot of courage came out of that like conviction, this is important, even if it requires me when I agree to these, I might have to like call out my boss for being judgmental, you know, in the space. But the space has room for that, yeah. You know, because it's this like egalitarian set of agreements that we're all gonna commit to.

SPEAKER_03 42:21

The consultation feels like I'm learning much more about myself as a clinician as well. Yes. Whereas if it's just like I'm just gonna talk about this case and it's a little bit like that book report, I don't feel like I really learn anything about myself or yeah. All right, the third one.

SPEAKER_01 42:37

Okay. Or should we number three? No, let's keep going.

Agreement Three Make Room For Differences

SPEAKER_03 42:39

Consistency agreement. Number three, because change is a natural life occurrence. We agree to accept diversity and change as they naturally come about. This means that we do not have to agree with each other's positions about how to respond to specific patients, nor do we have to tailor our own behavior to be consistent with everyone else's.

SPEAKER_01 43:00

It's almost like this could be called the inconsistency agreement.

SPEAKER_03 43:03

Oh, well played.

SPEAKER_01 43:05

I mean, really, it's like you don't have to conform.

SPEAKER_03 43:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:10

Again, this is getting at that like agree to your truth and honor that.

SPEAKER_03 43:15

We all have different areas of expertise. We don't always have to respond with a DBT lens in these consultations. Yes. If you're bringing in other EMDR, if you're bringing in other things, that's more than welcome and that should be respected.

SPEAKER_01 43:29

All these different methods offer a perspective that's worth considering. Yes. And like again, with the concept of wise mind, it's like when you don't require everyone to be consistent and there isn't this vibe in the space of like there's a right way and a wrong way to view ex client. There really is so much room to to be curious about every perspective. And when you when you simply hold and make space for all those perspectives, that's where the wise mind comes up. Finds the method of the moment that's right for you with that client. Right. You almost find each other when you let all the possibilities be in the room.

SPEAKER_03 44:10

How can we be open and integrate and support different modalities with the same patient? I'm not even consistent.

SPEAKER_01 44:19

Like and I I stand by that because I I really do believe, like, like I'll get a new client who's you know doing a call with me, wondering if they want to work with me, and they'll ask about my process. And it's annoying for me to say like it really depends on you and what I notice when we spend a lot of time on an intake. What I notice, like what you actually respond to, what actually resonates for you. And luckily, I have a few different ways to guide you. And they are based on you.

SPEAKER_03 44:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:57

And like what and even not even just them, but our relationship with what I notice flowing and what isn't flowing.

SPEAKER_03 45:04

100%.

SPEAKER_01 45:05

I don't use EMDR with everyone. I don't use DBT skills with everyone. But I will say I'm never gonna wash off my DBT training. No, no, never gonna wash off my EMDR training or any of that.

SPEAKER_03 45:17

The more years of experience we have, the more we're able to identify what people need in the moment and then kind of like transition to it. Yeah. Like playing jazz with it, which I think is a huge skill. It's something I'm continuing to develop. Yeah. I think people that are so cut and dry, a certain modality sometimes miss out.

SPEAKER_00 45:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:38

Which also kind of gets into some stuff that we'll talk about in a later episode, some of the other ones where it's like also just knowing our own limits when it comes to therapies.

SPEAKER_01 45:47

Yeah. Yeah, that's a little teaser for me. A little teaser. Okay, well, maybe. Those are the first three. Those are the first three. We're gonna do the next three next week. Yes. But yeah, right in with any questions, any thoughts, any disagreements.

SPEAKER_03 45:59

Any disagreements? We'd love to hear inconsistencies. It all lines up.

Reusing Takeout Containers And Microplastics

SPEAKER_03 46:06

So now is time to move into our how wise is a question. Today we're gonna be exploring how wise is it to reuse takeout Tupperware or takeout containers.

SPEAKER_01 46:17

So over the years, I think I've changed my opinion on this.

SPEAKER_03 46:20

Oh, pre-tell.

SPEAKER_01 46:21

Well, I feel like, you know, more than ever, we're all thinking about this, these microplastics. Plastics. Yeah, plastics, exactly. And it's a little different than in the graduate. We're really thinking about like buzzing them into your food with a blender. Or like, you know, I I don't know if this is true, but have you ever heard that ad? And this might be an ad that more goes around on podcasts, but there's an ad that's like you eat like a credit card's worth of plastic like a month with like the way food storage is, and single use. You've never heard that.

SPEAKER_03 46:59

I don't heard that my credit card is made of metal. I don't doubt that, and I've never heard it.

SPEAKER_01 47:05

Right. And the question is like, could we control that? The way production is like we we think we have more control than we do, right? It's in the way food's stored before you even see it go on to the it's everywhere, it's everywhere, but you know, like the pieces we do control, like if you get like Chinese takeout and just like keep the stuff in there. Oh you know, I do it. I sometimes I do it. You but but I don't stand behind it. What you do what though? What do you think?

SPEAKER_03 47:33

You keep the Tupperware and reuse it?

SPEAKER_01 47:36

Oh, like wash it and reuse it.

SPEAKER_03 47:38

Isn't that what we're talking about?

SPEAKER_01 47:39

Oh my god, I was confused. I thought like is that what we're talking about? You eat a little bit of it and then the rest of it you keep in that container in the fridge.

SPEAKER_03 47:46

That's definitely reusing it, but then I'm talking about- I've been known to do that. I'm talking about you wash it and you reuse it.

SPEAKER_01 47:52

Okay, in 2026, I'm not doing that. We're not doing that.

SPEAKER_03 47:55

You're not doing it.

SPEAKER_01 47:56

Not doing it, not doing it because of microplastics, microplastics, and like trying to eliminate that load of toxicity.

SPEAKER_03 48:03

Don't do it. What about you? Well, I'm never gonna say it's bad to be thrifty or trying to reuse something. I I don't want to go as far as to say that's unwise to do. Certainly reuse it. I feel like I'm leaning more towards recycling it and not reusing it nowadays. Um, I think there was a time and a place where I was doing it much more. Some containers are really nice though, that I like to save. Like Sarah gets feta cheese in these tall containers that fit a lot of, they can just fit a lot of stuff in it.

SPEAKER_01 48:40

When she's done with it, I just did she put that in her salads?

SPEAKER_03 48:43

Feta, yeah. Yeah.

unknown 48:44

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 48:45

So then when it's done, we wash it and use it. I'll put cut-up fruit in there, and you know. So, but the other thing is then you just end up with a drawer of mismatched shit.

SPEAKER_01 48:56

And it's all a cabinet come in that credit card that you're eating. Everything's cracked.

SPEAKER_03 49:01

And there's one day where your shit falls all in your backpack, or it just it's not made that well.

SPEAKER_01 49:07

Yeah, get a few really nice ones.

SPEAKER_03 49:11

Class containers.

SPEAKER_01 49:13

And be done with it. And if the glass is too heavy to bring to work, you can get silicone.

SPEAKER_03 49:18

Well, can't you get the um what were the ones I ordered? Sarah, I ordered Sarah some for because I was like, you know what? Some of these are just they're just not working for me.

SPEAKER_01 49:28

Yeah. Yeah, what's what's the brand you like?

SPEAKER_03 49:30

I'm I'm looking right now, but this isn't sponsored. What?

SPEAKER_01 49:34

This isn't sponsored, so these are real wrecks.

SPEAKER_03 49:36

These are gonna be authentic. Uh, but that's the thing that really grinds my gears is when you can't find a top. Like you're saving all of this to reuse it, and then you can't find it. Yeah. And then you're like rushing in the morning.

SPEAKER_00 49:50

And it's just I know. Where do the tops go?

SPEAKER_03 49:52

And then some of the tops get really warped in your dishwasher if you put them in your dishwasher. It's like, I don't have time to get it.

SPEAKER_01 49:58

Well, then also it's like, oh, you're taking that single-use plastic, you're running it through the dishwasher. You might as well just grab a credit card and eat it. At least one. At least one credit card. Really? The heat of that thing is the length of time it's in there, it's melting it. Yeah, and it's contaminating all the other dishes that aren't even plastic. Oh man. How much are you thinking about this? I mean, I've cleansed my life of a lot of that stuff. So luckily I don't have to think. But I did today actually, I got this mini hydro flask, which is like it's stainless steel and silicone. Yeah. And it has a silicone straw. So I thought the top is silicone. If you open the thing and look at the bottom part of the straw, it's fucking plastic.

SPEAKER_03 50:43

Really?

SPEAKER_01 50:43

It's like you're tricking us into this is all silicone. It's not all silicone. That new one I got has a plastic bottom of the straw.

SPEAKER_02 50:52

We have entered the gilded age.

SPEAKER_01 50:54

Like, I gotta send someone an email about this.

SPEAKER_03 50:56

These are stainless steel.

SPEAKER_01 50:58

Oh, wow. Are they light? They're steel. Black and blum lunchbox set. So take that with a green. But they're great. Look at them. Take it with a green and top plastic.

SPEAKER_03 51:10

The top is there is a plastic top. There is plastic on the top. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 51:14

Oh, but you can put it in the microwave.

SPEAKER_03 51:16

You can. And it has a little like thing you can move over to let the air, the hot air out.

SPEAKER_01 51:20

Whoa.

SPEAKER_03 51:21

Um so I got these for Sarah for Mother's Day along with a few other items. But we were uh struggling with finding tops for things. Yeah. So I mean, I say just recycle it at this point. I think it's wise to you get the takeout, recycle it. Yeah. Don't wash and reuse. Move on. Yeah. I hate to say it though.

SPEAKER_01 51:40

Recycle it, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 51:41

I feel like I've been taught to recycle it or to reuse it.

SPEAKER_01 51:45

Well, but if you have reusable ones like these stainless steel ones where you're using all the time, yeah. You're not tossing the one you got at the Chinese place to do another single-use one. You're using Yeah, that's true. It's probably net the same with the sustainability piece. And then for your health, it's better.

SPEAKER_03 52:06

Does it even matter that we're recycling at this point?

SPEAKER_01 52:08

I mean, that is probably a really big, complex question.

Is Recycling Real And What To Do

SPEAKER_01 52:12

I think in the city of Chicago. I'm like looking for it as if there's one answer to. Yeah. In the city of Chicago, it's anyone's guess where the recycling is. Where does it even go? I don't know. Some recycling plant.

SPEAKER_03 52:26

I read a story that somebody put an air tag in something recyclable. Yeah. And they noticed that it just went to the landfill. They did it.

SPEAKER_01 52:35

The Guardian did a story on this same thing. Okay. Okay. Maybe that's where I read it then. They tracked recycling and a lot of it was in a landfill. But then it's hard to know if it was in a landfill because it got contaminated. Okay. There's more rules with recycling than we're really educated on. Oh, yeah, for sure. Especially in this country.

SPEAKER_02 52:53

Every batch gets contaminated and thus every batch ends up in the landfill. Yeah. There is no recycling.

SPEAKER_01 53:00

You think that?

SPEAKER_02 53:01

Is that the reality? To some extent, I'm correct.

SPEAKER_01 53:04

You're saying that, but I notice the love and care with which you rinse out all the recycling stuff. Yeah. Josh will take it out of the garbage if I've inappropriately put it in the recycling.

SPEAKER_03 53:14

I just typed in, is recycling real? This is like our birds real.

SPEAKER_01 53:18

Yeah. Conspiracy.

SPEAKER_03 53:20

Or birds aren't real. That's what it is.

SPEAKER_01 53:21

I think there are countries that have it like on lockdown. Like when I went to Germany, there they were militant about recycling. And you get money back if you bring stuff back to where you bought it, your single use things and recycle them. And yeah, yeah, yeah. In this country. I mean, maybe in like Portland or in San Francisco, they're better about it. Yeah. Really progressive.

SPEAKER_03 53:44

This just makes me want to do more research on recycling now.

SPEAKER_01 53:47

Yeah. So yeah, it's not wise to reuse. Well, in general, reusing things, sure, but like reusing single-use plastic.

SPEAKER_03 54:02

Is takeout. Are takeout containers single use?

SPEAKER_01 54:05

Well, yeah, if you're getting rid of them after one year.

SPEAKER_03 54:08

But who did who but I guess what I'm saying is you said it as if it's those are designed to just be single use.

SPEAKER_01 54:14

Well, yeah, I think it's like you can reuse single-use plastic, but it's not designed for that. Like a water bottle. Like if you get a Poland Spring water bottle, like that's a single-use plastic. Got it. I guess a takeout container, maybe, because sometimes they're thicker. Someone might categorize it differently, but I would call that single-use plastic.

SPEAKER_03 54:31

No, if it was a Fiji water bottle, I'd reuse that puppy.

SPEAKER_01 54:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:34

Those things are thick. Yeah, that Fiji water is tasty. Well, and even some of those footprint on that thing if it really is coming. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:43

I know. I'm sure the company's so not sustainable.

SPEAKER_03 54:47

No, I'm sure. And probably Americans are taking advantage of it. So wow, this went dark. Any ideas on reusing, reducing, or recycling?

SPEAKER_02 54:58

Don't get the container to begin with. Carry around a Trader Joe's mini tote and just have them dump it in your dumpling. The fried rice. The mini tote. Bring it home, put it in the frig. You got your next few meals. The frig.

SPEAKER_01 55:11

Just pour it along the bottom of the bottom.

SPEAKER_02 55:13

That would be a restaurant idea.

SPEAKER_03 55:15

We won't give you a take-home container. Container unless you bring it. You don't get your leftovers unless you bring it.

SPEAKER_01 55:21

I love that.

SPEAKER_03 55:22

That'd be a hot take.

SPEAKER_01 55:23

There's honestly a coffee shop near our old place called the Spoken Cafe. Have you ever been there?

SPEAKER_03 55:28

No.

SPEAKER_01 55:28

They have a weird thing with coffee there where they won't give you single-use plastic for your coffee.

SPEAKER_03 55:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 55:35

Which their heart's in the right place. It's an it's a mess the way they do it because you'll be like, everybody's like getting their coffee and leaving, you know, like that's kind of how coffee is. So they're like, oh, yeah. So if you want coffee here, basically you have to drink it here, or if you want to take it, you have to like almost like rent a thermos. Oh, that's I mean, right away you're like, I'd rather gouge my eyes out than rent a thermos. And then they're like, and if you bring it back, then we'll give you the 10 cents back or the whatever or the 50 cents back.

SPEAKER_03 56:10

It's like a growling.

SPEAKER_01 56:10

And you're kind of like it's like, what can I say to get out of this conversation? That's the feeling, right?

SPEAKER_03 56:17

You're an ugly American. So the heart's in the right place if everybody knew what they were getting into.

SPEAKER_00 56:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 56:23

But when you know when you notice a coffee shop, you go in there because you're thinking, I'm just gonna get my coffee real quick. Right. But if you don't know the setup, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:31

It's just not scalable, that setup. Yeah. You know, it's like you can't change society into not wanting to go coffee. Totally. And there's like four tablespoon there. There's like a thousand people going in and not.

SPEAKER_03 56:42

Sounds like their business model's a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 56:44

It's like they they need to just I think maybe they even did introduce a little bit sus. It's or like get some that are like made of recycled material. I don't know. Right. Do your best. But like this whole thermos thing was crazy.

SPEAKER_03 56:58

Rent a thermos.

SPEAKER_01 56:59

The guy was talking for like 10 minutes about it, telling us all the rules. And I'm like, this is horrible. Like, I already feel like I should have my coffee in my hand.

SPEAKER_04 57:08

Man.

SPEAKER_01 57:09

And we had one of the cups for a while because we never returned it because we never went back.

SPEAKER_03 57:12

The thermos?

SPEAKER_01 57:13

Yeah, we did one.

SPEAKER_03 57:15

I can't believe you never returned it.

SPEAKER_01 57:16

Well, they say if you don't return it, you just bought a thermos, is all that was. But it's not like a cute thermos, it's like metal.

SPEAKER_03 57:23

Well, they probably don't want people to keep them. They're gonna make them cute so people they're just giving them away at that point. They want them to not be cute so people look at them and say, Oh, yeah, we gotta, I'm really don't want to keep this one.

SPEAKER_01 57:37

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_03 57:38

Yeah, we didn't like it, but we did keep it anyway. It all comes out in the wash, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_00 57:42

Oh, it does, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:43

Okay, it actually doesn't. It doesn't. It really doesn't.

SPEAKER_03 57:46

Oh man.

SPEAKER_01 57:47

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 57:48

That's a long we we we've covered a lot of ground.

SPEAKER_01 57:51

Yeah, we've covered a lot of ground.

Where To Find Us And A Madonna Detour

SPEAKER_01 57:53

As usual. So thank you for going along on this journey with us. And we'll continue the next three agreements next session.

SPEAKER_03 58:00

But catch old episodes, YouTube.

SPEAKER_01 58:02

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, Josh and I'll put something out. For the next two weeks, we're not recording with John here, but we'll put something out.

unknown 58:10

Oh god.

SPEAKER_01 58:11

We'll put out a picture of John just on the RSS feed.

SPEAKER_00 58:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 58:16

Just have a stick here and have my face in between you two. Just a picture of him. Let's do it. Yeah. Or maybe I'll call in remotely from somewhere.

SPEAKER_00 58:24

Yeah, totally. We could do that.

SPEAKER_01 58:26

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 58:26

A little remote episode, a little virtual action.

SPEAKER_03 58:29

A virtual. I have a computer.

SPEAKER_00 58:31

Yeah, we could totally do that.

unknown 58:32

Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_03 58:33

Um, well, you can find me at buttsbutz.jonathan at gmail.com. Email me any questions, uh, specifically to what we were talking about today, but about anything we talk about, catch all of our old episodes on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube. Yeah. Where can people find you?

SPEAKER_01 58:50

Yeah, you can find me at kkpsychotherapy.com. Um, yeah, if you want to reach out about the pod, you want to work with me, anything at all, you can find me there and send me an inquiry there. And yeah, please rate and review the pod if you're enjoying it. It really helps people discover us so we can keep making these episodes. You know, keep it going. Keep it going. So yeah, please rate and review. And check us out on YouTube too. We have full videos posted. Yeah, full episodes and clips on YouTube Shorts. Josh?

SPEAKER_02 59:24

Well, I'm gonna legally change my name to Madonna because I can't stop listening to her album.

SPEAKER_01 59:30

Oh my god, I I totally promised that we would talk about that in the intro, and then I forgot.

SPEAKER_02 59:34

Confessions too, you heard it, John?

SPEAKER_01 59:36

No, you heard it, it's great. Madonna puts out new music? She's 67 and she put out a great album.

SPEAKER_02 59:41

Really? 6'7.

SPEAKER_01 59:44

I genuinely like it. Really? Yeah. I mean, it's a dance, it's dance.

SPEAKER_03 59:49

I'm gonna have to give it a whirl.

SPEAKER_01 59:51

It's not like the lyrics are like the most thought-provoking lyrics ever.

SPEAKER_03 59:55

What was her last album? Like Ray of Light or something like that?

SPEAKER_01 59:58

Yeah. Yeah, wasn't it? I think it was Madam X. Who knows? Madam X.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:03

And I think it came out. I'm not even gonna purport to say. This is the first Madonna album that has come out contemporaneously that I really dug my teeth into.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:12

Yeah. I mean, I hope you like it.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:14

I can't wait to listen.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:15

I've probably listened to it about 15 times, so I must like it. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:18

Oh yeah. It gets in your blood. I'm gonna have to give it a spin.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:21

It's weirdly relaxing.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:22

Yeah, it's kind of trance-like.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:24

I'm gonna listen.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:25

Okay. Well, thanks for joining us, everyone. Thank you, blanket forts as well. Yeah, thank you, blanket forts for the music. And we'll catch you next time.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:33

See you there.

Disclaimer And Closing

SPEAKER_01 1:00:35

The Wise Mind Happy Hour podcast is for entertainment purposes only, not to be treated as medical advice. If you are struggling with your mental health, please seek medical attention or counseling.