Breaking Free From Pain

What if the key to reducing knee pain wasn't found in another injection, medication, or surgery...but in the way you move?

In this episode of the Dual Coast Podcast, we sit down with Renee Moten, who shares her personal journey battling debilitating knee osteoarthritis and chronic pain. Faced with limitations that impacted her quality of life, Renee refused to accept pain as her future. Through years of research, movement analysis, and innovation, she developed a unique device focused on improving ankle mobility and restoring proper movement patterns.

Today, Renee is living pain-free and helping others do the same. She now works with individuals suffering from osteoarthritis and chronic joint pain, using a combination of ankle mobility training, gait analysis, movement assessments, and corrective strategies to help people move better and reclaim their lives.

In this episode, we discuss:

✅ Renee's personal battle with knee osteoarthritis
✅ Why ankle mobility may be the missing link in knee pain relief
✅ The connection between gait mechanics and joint health
✅ How movement dysfunction contributes to osteoarthritis symptoms
✅ The device she developed to improve mobility and reduce pain
✅ Alternative approaches to managing osteoarthritis without relying solely on surgery
✅ Practical strategies to improve movement, function, and quality of life

Whether you're struggling with knee pain, osteoarthritis, mobility limitations, or you're simply interested in innovative approaches to health and movement, this conversation offers valuable insights that could change the way you think about pain and recovery.

🎧 Listen now and discover how better movement can lead to a better life.

#DualCoastPodcast #Osteoarthritis #KneePain #MobilityTraining #GaitAnalysis #PainFreeMovement #JointHealth #FunctionalMovement #AnkleMobility #PhysicalTherapy #MovementMatters #HealthyAging #WellnessPodcast #PainRelief #Rehabilitation

@Dualcoastpodcast @Russellrogersofficial @Danscoca

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:02

Good morning, Dual Coast fans. Welcome back to another exciting episode of Dual Coast Podcast. I'm your host, Dan Skoka on the East Coast, joined by my West Coast co-host Russ Rogers, as well. Joined by very special guest this morning, Renee Moten out of Maryland. Renee, thank you so much for being with us.

SPEAKER_03 0:24

I'll tell you, man, Renee has got the the the laugh that will just energize this room today. Yes, it's beautiful. Yes, happy, smiling, east coaster. She's wide awake.

SPEAKER_04 0:38

You know, today, Russ, 2v1 today.

SPEAKER_03 0:41

Yeah, I know. I'm feeling it. I'm feeling it. Feeling out of balance today. Oh, that's great. So, what is happening, Renee? It's it's just a a blessing to to have you on Dual Coast, uh, introduced through Dana Grant. You know, we connected, we met immediately had, you know, this really good connection. We've had a couple of calls. Uh, it's it's just uh so great to meet you and understand a little bit about what you do, but you know, invited you on because you, you know, you are the knee stopper. And uh, you know, it it is awesome. We can't wait to see the the mechanism that you created. You're gonna show us not how it works, but how you show us. Although, you know, I'm kind of I'm kind of bummed because last week we had Bridget Morris, and you know, she's into uh martial arts and she's got this leg kick that's like vertical. So, you know, you should be able to lift that leg up, strap that thing on, you know, show us the vertical move, you know. I don't know. Anyway, anyway, it it really is. It's great to have you. Thanks for coming on. Um, tell us a little bit about your your background, tell us a little bit about your history of how you got to this point without going into the actual knee doctor part. Knee stopper, knee stopper.

SPEAKER_00 2:01

Why didn't you call me the knee keeper?

SPEAKER_03 2:03

Knee keeper. Oh, like a beekeeper. She's the knee keeper. I've got some friends. I have by before you answer, I've got some friends that have had their knees replaced. Uh, in fact, when I flew to Portland last week on Tuesday, I had lunch with my friend Jim Bush. The next morning, he was going in for knee replacement.

SPEAKER_00 2:23

Yeah. Yeah, it's it's rampant, it's quite rampant. Absolutely. Okay, well, as for me, um, I have lived in Merlin all my life. I have I played sports until I couldn't. Well, you know, you play sports until you and then you have to coach them. So you play it first and you second. Um, I I was married for 45 years. Uh, I have one daughter and one granddaughter. And I started my personal training business around 1998. Uh, I've been an entrepreneur since 2007, and I've been on somewhere around about 26,000 one-on-one appointments with clients.

SPEAKER_03 3:04

Oh man.

SPEAKER_00 3:05

I know.

SPEAKER_03 3:06

Out of that, out of that time, right there. Yeah. 26,000 clients.

SPEAKER_00 3:12

Holy 26,000 appointments with all clients. So that's what I've been doing over the past all my career. But um, I had a a soccer injury. I twisted my ankle playing soccer, and I didn't know it at the time that that was going to change my whole life. That one injury. So that one injury went into right knee hurting and then the left knee hurting, and then eventually both hips were hurting. So I have osteoarthritis in both knees and in both hips. Uh, in 2014, well, being in pain for 20 years, in 2014, I finally figured out how to get myself out of pain. And from that point on, I've been on a tear of a mission of taking this knee OA, osteoarthritis, and stopping the disability of it. And that is my mission in life is to stop the disability of knee OA.

SPEAKER_03 4:03

So that's so do knee doctors, do knee doctors dislike you? Well, they don't really come on, come on, let's get real.

SPEAKER_00 4:12

I don't think they don't like me. I think they just kind of the ones that I have talked to, they're kind of like, you know, okay, so what, yeah, thank you for sharing that information with me. You know, that's about it.

SPEAKER_03 4:26

Because they they want you, they want you under the knife, right? That you know, making money, right? Sure.

SPEAKER_00 4:32

So yeah, I try not to think of it that way, but it seemed like it comes up that comes up quite often.

SPEAKER_03 4:37

Yeah, yeah. But here comes the knee keeper. We got to create a song for you.

SPEAKER_00 4:42

I love it. I'll take it.

SPEAKER_03 4:46

The kneek keeper, the kneek keeper. Oh my gosh. So, you know, uh, just going off of the surgery side of things, um, because I have several friends that have had the knee replacement, and they said the tur the first two weeks after knee surgery is brutal. Yeah. And uh, and then, you know, I I've actually been with a buddy who I saw about two weeks after, and and he just said it was it was awful. And, you know, just hobbling out of the garage, and you know, they want you moving, right? So um, yeah, it's uh it's no fun. And uh, so here comes preventative Renee Motant that comes in, and she is basically uh telling people this is a mechanism that I have created that I have designed and I can help you, you know, with your pain, with maybe not going to surgery. And so, you know, how many do you have any idea how many people you have kept from going under the knife?

SPEAKER_00 5:52

Oh gosh. Uh doing the during the COVID years, those COVID years, I would have something like eight and nine hundred people on my Zoom calls, you know, and yeah, I know that I have showed them a way now, whether all of them took my advice, but I know I showed them a way of looking at it a little bit differently. Before you go into surgery, let's try this, this, or this first.

SPEAKER_02 6:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:14

And that's where the strap came from because people couldn't get the motion. So that's how I developed it because nobody could figure out how to move their ankles the way I needed them to move their ankles. So okay.

SPEAKER_03 6:25

Well, I know I know Dan is just uh as a physician's assistant is just itching to you know ask him some deep questions. But can you just show us what it looks like? What show us the mechanism that you have designed and created because uh and then you can describe you know how it how it how it works, and then I I'm gonna let the physician's assistant dive into the interrogative questions.

SPEAKER_00 6:55

Uh as you know, I said I've been in uh I was in pain for 20 years, and uh I went to one class in 2010 that said the reason that most people have knee problems is because of their ankles. And that's what I never hurt my knee. I never hurt my knee, and that's the first time I figured out like, oh, that's why I have knee problems. So, anyway, that's when my my focus changed to towards ankles. And this device here is called a knee pain reduction strap.

SPEAKER_03 7:23

All right, all right.

SPEAKER_00 7:25

Um, it goes around your foot, it goes around the arch of your foot. It goes around, you take this and you put it around the arch of your foot. And because this plate is on here, it pulls the foot into eversion and inversion, eversion and inversion. No other strap does it to this level of it doesn't have any give in it. So it can stretch the ankle, full range of motion, eversion, stretch it in the other direction. But also, what it does is it can also help to strengthen the ankle because it doesn't have any give, pull on one side of this handle and you can push back against that resistance. So not only is it going to stretch it full range, it's going to also strengthen it, which maybe Dave can go into that. It's more of collagen is supposed to come out and start to strengthen those tendons, which is supposed to help to help to control that, you know, that ankle rolling that people have. Those athletes have ankle rolling, and it's supposed to really help with that.

SPEAKER_03 8:28

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 8:29

I had this is patented and it's uh ready to go.

SPEAKER_03 8:32

Awesome. How how how long do you leave that on whenever you're using it?

SPEAKER_00 8:37

No, it's more of I'm looking to somewhere do about 15 reps on it because you have to be careful with it because those particular muscles are not that strong because no one can really pull the ankle into that. So you just gotta be very gentle in first when you first do it until you get used to it. And so I look 15 reps back and forth just to get the full range of motion, and then you go into the strengthening very slowly. Okay, it really does pull pretty hard. Ask me how I know that interesting.

SPEAKER_04 9:12

Yeah, I like that. Yeah, Renee, when you when you first started this whole process and you were having this pain, how did you know to start focusing on the other joints a little bit? And were you focusing on more like the ligamentous support in the knee, or were you focusing on strengthening structures? Or was it a little bit of both? I know you just kind of got into it has it has stability standpoint and strength and uh stretching standpoint. What was your main focus to start? Was it strengthening?

SPEAKER_00 9:38

Well, the first doctor I went to, he said, this is what they always say. They say, um, go strengthen your leg muscles and lose weight. And so that's why I did a hired a personal trainer and I started to doing lunges, squats, because I could still do them back then, lunges and squats. And probably after five years after working with my trainer, my other knee started to hurt.

SPEAKER_02 9:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 10:00

Okay. So they said, This is not working, and that's when I became a personal trainer to figure this thing out. Why is my knee still hurting? Why is both of them hurting now, even though I was doing all those strengthening exercises?

SPEAKER_02 10:11

Right.

SPEAKER_00 10:12

But um, the main thing that I learned out from the strengthening was my personal trainer kept making me stretch. And because he kept making me do that, it saved my knees from bowing because they do bow after a while. Um, and then it didn't start until um I started to notice um people would say, Renee, why are you limping? Like, I don't limp. But the bottoms of my shoes, I actually wore holes in the bottom of my shoes because I was limping so much. And that's when I said, Okay, this is not working. I gotta start from the ankles and work my way up and start to work on all of these particular, all these joints, because all of them would be ineffective.

SPEAKER_04 10:53

Yeah, no, that's that's super interesting because I feel like the knee from a standpoint of being a hinge joint is neglected by the other joints, like the hip being a ball and socket, ankle being a little bit different. People don't really focus on the joints above and below so much, they always focus on like the quad strengthening, the hamstring strengthening. Yes, it's kind of interesting though, how you're saying it that it's working in kinetic chain, so to speak. So you're starting with the lowest portion working your way up, and that's something you kind of focus on. It sounds like it's right, you went right to the ankle, and I'm assuming you you noticed gait issues, right? You were having gait issues, like you said. Your ankles were probably turning inward, outward, whatever it may be. Sounds like they were turning inward, actually. Um, do you agree with that?

SPEAKER_00 11:33

Well, my ankles for me, mine was rolling out.

SPEAKER_04 11:36

You were you were rolling, okay. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 11:38

Yeah, it was rolling out all the time. I didn't realize it because it didn't hurt. I never realized, but the first exercise that I learned back in 2010 was ankle rotations like this. It's like and I cried because mine wouldn't rotate, they were so stiff, and because they were stiff, they were putting tension on my knee for years, but I didn't know it until one day I did a squat, bam, pain.

SPEAKER_03 12:05

Oh interesting. Yes, now it it now it doesn't stop there, right? I mean, it can it it can go right up the leg into the hip. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:15

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 12:16

You could get I have probably interviewed over what's that?

SPEAKER_04 12:21

No, I was gonna say, like you could get from the knee being a standpoint of stability, it could kind of transfer pain down to the ankle or up the quad into the hip, and you know, kind of work upwards in a chain or downwards simultaneously. What were you gonna say though? I don't want to cut you off.

SPEAKER_00 12:35

Well, I have probably interviewed over 3,000 people before they did any of my programs. I had to find out why I go to a root cause. No one, I mean, I'll take that back. Maybe one, no one has ever had only knee problems.

SPEAKER_04 12:50

Right.

SPEAKER_00 12:50

No one. Okay. Anytime somebody comes and sits and talks with me, depends on how long they say they had pain. I know immediately they're gonna have something going on with their hips, their back, and you can go all the way up to the shoulder.

SPEAKER_03 13:02

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Amazing. Yeah, because I I I just I I wonder because my buddy, one of my friends who lives here locally, he's had both knees replaced, and but I think that he dealt with the first knee for such a long period of time, then his hips started hurting. Yeah, right. I mean, we're talking years, yeah. So and he always walked with the you know, this limp, he's now 70. Uh, but he's it he's in uh physically, you know, I wouldn't call him in shape, but I would call him uh still an athlete of some, you know, we play smash ball on the beach. He doesn't limp anymore because you know he's had all these surgeries and everything, and it did him well. And six months after everything, he was back on you know, skiing on the slopes, you know. Um, and uh, but you know, for for 70 years old, I mean he's doing fabulous. Like we always say, you know, man, if we've been like Jay, you know, it'd be great, you know, because at 70, he's you know going double black diamond skiing, you know, and uh, you know, plays, you know, smash ball here, and it's like, yeah, it's it's amazing. But you know, he I I just you know question, does it keep on going up the hip? You know, and it sounds like the answer is yes, if you don't deal if you don't deal with it.

SPEAKER_00 14:21

Yeah, I would be interested to find out if you take an ibuprofen, because that's what most of them do. They take all this ibuprofen before they do their sports. Be interesting to know.

SPEAKER_03 14:29

Yeah, I guarantee, I guarantee that they're taking ibuprofen.

SPEAKER_00 14:35

So I'm just wondering, okay.

SPEAKER_03 14:37

Guarantee. I mean, I play volleyball, you know, beach volleyball, and I hear you know, guys talking, you know, oh, today's gonna be a three, a three popping, you know, ibuprofen day, you know.

SPEAKER_02 14:47

I'm just wondering. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 14:51

Yeah. So are you anti-medication when uh, you know, I mean, are is that what you believe in?

SPEAKER_00 14:58

Oh no, no. I um I I never took any drugs when I was in pain because I kept telling myself if I'm if I'm taking drugs, then I'm not gonna be able to find a solution because then I won't be able to feel it. So but I know we all have to take them for whatever reason, you know. I don't think it's just that to depend on them. That's where I kind of draw the line with it. I I do everything I can not to have to take any drugs.

SPEAKER_04 15:22

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 15:23

Yeah, but I know they are needed.

SPEAKER_04 15:25

Yeah. It's interesting because uh a lot of people definitely live on the you know the NSAIDs and stuff like that when they have OA for long periods of time before they, you know, start to go for injections, you know, hyaluronic acid injections, and then uh ultimately surgery at some point. Renee, at what point during your journey would you say that you had to stop normalizing the pain? You were like, this is just becoming too much. I have to change my mindset, I have to restructure this. What point during your journey would you say that happened? Was there like a breaking point for you or like I gotta make this change now?

SPEAKER_00 15:58

Uh I had when I first had my pain, I mean, of course I could still exercise at the time, so I was still able to exercise. I think it's somewhere around about 2000, um, when I used to have to literally wear ice packs on my knees to go to work. I mean, I ain't gonna tell you how I did it, but I used to put two ice packs on my knees to go to work. Um, because I was a personal trainer. How are you gonna be a personal trainer when you can't even get on the floor with clients? But I did what I did. But um I can't say that the pain, the pain would get so bad, I think um, because I kept listening to the doctors. Gotta exercise, you gotta move, you have to strengthen. So I remember being on a treadmill, and my right knee would start to hurt, and then my left knee would start to hurt, and I'm on the treadmill crying because I keep telling myself I have to exercise, I have to exercise. Yeah, and I said, that does not, this is not, this makes no sense. This makes no sense. But it wasn't until I went to uh I got a pedicure, believe it or not. I got a pedicure.

SPEAKER_03 16:58

Oh, that ends all pain, right?

SPEAKER_00 17:00

Exactly. My clients were tired of me lifting around all the time. So she told me to go to to get a pedicure, and uh when I got there, this woman she started to massage. I told her my knees were hurting, so she started to massage my knees, and I wanted to scream because they were always, always so sore. So she finished massaging them, and I said to myself, I'm never I'm not gonna be able to walk the next day. But gentlemen, when I got up the next day, after being in pain for 12 years, all my pain was gone, just like that. It was gone. And I called her up and she did what they call a lymphatic drainage massage. Yeah, okay. I went back to her a couple more times and it did not, it didn't work all the time, but it did work for about two months or something like that. And I think, okay. And I kept telling myself, I like, you know what? I said, if she can get me out of pain, then so can I. That's when my journey started into the holistic. That was like 2002, and that's when my journey started to know that there is a way because she did it too quickly. And when she did that, that's when it was on then. So that's how my journey became a holistic practitioner after that. Wow, wow, yeah. And each part there's a the program that I have actually put together. It's called a knee pain recipe. It's like six steps, and it took me about 10 years to put the right steps together because that's you got knee OA, you can't, there is not just one fix. There's a you have to do things in a proper order in order for it to really heal. See, I can get on, I can run, I can do anything now, even after being in you know, with osteoarthritis in both knees. I have figured this thing out, and that's why I'm bringing it to the world because I figured it out.

SPEAKER_03 18:48

It's amazing. Wow, we're well, we're we're gonna try to do our part to help you continue to expand to bring it to the world, you know. Thank you. This is awesome. What let me ask you a question. What do you what do you um what do you think about GLP ones? Um, and in terms of those helping any type of injury or strengthening or muscle tissue. What it do you have any insight about that? GLP ones with being a knee stopper, knee book, you know.

SPEAKER_00 19:20

GLP ones. What do you like that the peptides?

SPEAKER_03 19:23

Peptides.

SPEAKER_04 19:24

Okay, yeah. So you have like uh either peptides, that would be more like for weight loss, too.

SPEAKER_02 19:31

Yeah, it's not what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_04 19:33

Biomechanically, like, you know, the number one thing surgeons usually tell patients is you have to lose weight because there's too much strength, too much strain on the joints, too much strain on your lumbar, spine, your knees, stuff like that. So, I mean, from a standpoint of weight loss, it probably would help biomechanically. I I would say, I mean, that's one of the number one things we usually recommend for initial standpoint. But you know, it's not ultimately the ultimate fix because weight loss doesn't always just reverse away. You know what I mean? It may take some strength, or it may take some strain off the joint, but at the same time, it doesn't just reverse osteoarthritis or you know, if you have RA or anything like that. What's your take on though the weight loss idea?

SPEAKER_00 20:13

I'll just say that I was one of those. I said, okay, let me lose this weight, and I'm gonna feel better. My knees are gonna feel better. They didn't. Yeah, they didn't. Strengthening exercises, losing weight, putting salves on your knees are not oh, changing your diet, taking supplements are not going to stop away. Yeah, the key is the problem is is there is a misalignment going on in there. Yeah, so I don't it doesn't matter what, and I've tried everything. Doesn't matter what you do, if you don't get that person back into alignment and get them to walk correctly, yeah, they're always going to keep having that deterioration. And I've had I've had I have a uh woman, she just had to get a knee replacement, but she's like 300 pounds, but she was with me for three years with her OA and all this exercise and doing everything else, but she had meniscus tears, bone on bone, all that kind of stuff. She needed the surgery, but she I got her out of pain and she was like 300 pounds.

SPEAKER_03 21:14

Wow, interesting.

SPEAKER_00 21:17

And I, you know, I actually documented it too, and you know, she but uh it's it's not the the weight. I mean, I know that it it doesn't help, but you can get a person in alignment, get them back into balance, and that pain will subside.

SPEAKER_04 21:35

Yeah. Out of sheer curiosity, Renee, have you had any like radiographic studies throughout this whole process, like recent x-rays or anything like that that show improvement in any way?

SPEAKER_00 21:47

I have an x-ray from 2001, 2008, 2011, 2021, and I have MRIs too. Which one do you want to see?

SPEAKER_03 21:57

She's snapping her fingers, she's snapping her fingers. On that answer right there, Dan.

SPEAKER_00 22:03

Every time I would go get an x-ray, I could say, Okay, that bone on bone is gonna be there. And I'm like, Yeah, no, it didn't. And I said, Oh my gosh, I've stopped the deterioration.

SPEAKER_04 22:14

That's so you so you actually have improved x-rays, you have improved x-rays throughout this whole process.

SPEAKER_00 22:19

That shows I don't, I just know that the the gap between the female and the tibia didn't get smaller.

SPEAKER_04 22:27

Gotcha, gotcha. Okay, so we didn't break down any further, definitely not.

SPEAKER_00 22:31

So exactly.

SPEAKER_04 22:33

Interesting, interesting. So technically, you prevented any more any further breakdown with with everything you've been doing, which is huge because there's nothing that really does that.

SPEAKER_00 22:44

Exactly, Dan. Nothing that does that. Because it has to be incrementally put in order, and that's where the problem is. Some people, you know, they we do need to strengthen. Yeah, but after you do all these other things first, and then you lock it in. That's what I do with my client. We get rid of the inflammation, we get rid of the swelling, we make sure that you are functional, that you're totally no restrictions anywhere else, and then we lock it in there because they're already functional. Then we lock it in. We don't lock it in when they're not functional. To me, what we do is we strengthen in dysfunction.

SPEAKER_04 23:22

Yeah, yeah, it makes sense. Do you taper your regimen per client, or do you kind of go with the same regimen for everybody? Do you do you do like you know certain things if somebody has like unicompartmental arthritis versus you know both compartments? Did you do things like that, or is it mostly a step-by-step process for everybody?

SPEAKER_00 23:41

The first four steps are standard because that's getting rid of the inflammation, get rid of the swelling, that part's from okay. And then you start to okay, what do you have going on here? Because usually not I ain't gonna say 90%, but quite a few of my clients, once I get done with them after the first four steps, okay, now let's see what the real issue is here, and surely not even their knee, it's like their hip, you know, their back or something like that, or yeah, with sciatica or something like that. But most of the time, it's not even their dad knee. I can get you out of pick knee pain pretty quickly. It's really the other stuff that causes the problems.

SPEAKER_03 24:17

Yes. Oh, definitely. So I was up in Portland last week, and one of our guest speakers was Dr. Will, who I just met a month and a half ago. Dr. Will's a chiropractor, but he does this. Um, uh, well, first he he had me come up to his office because he goes, I want you to experience what I do. And then when we get on stage and we start talking about it, then you have a better understanding, you know, helps us in our conversation. So sure. So I went to the office, sat down in a chair. So he's doing, you know, this spinal, you know, feeling and everything. And then I lay down and he comes up underneath here and he's feeling all around in here, right? A little cranial checkup, you know, and does this is some pain, blah, blah, blah. So then he starts pressing on different parts of the body. Does this hurt? Does this hurt? And and most didn't, but then there was one like, oh yeah, I felt I feel that. So then he started working that and he goes, You're out of alignment. And he was talking about your rib cage, and he's just doing this soft press right here, and then he's pulling the ribs to, you know, so when you're talking about your body being out of alignment, after that, I I I mean, I felt great. Now, I mean, we're just just this is just one time, right? So, you know, if you get your body in alignment, and I'm I'm agreeing with what you're saying, you know, as we age, you know, different things happen. We're working, we're we're moving, we're you know, gaining weight, we're putting on muscle, whatever it may be. Our body is out of alignment, so one thing connects to the other, connects to the other. And he's like, So, right here, that's connecting all the way down, you know, to you know, your calf or whatever, right?

SPEAKER_02 25:53

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 25:54

So, I you know, I agree with that. So, you know, one area takes care of of the other. So everything that you're saying makes perfect sense to me because I just experienced that last week.

SPEAKER_00 26:06

Yeah, well, I have my clients, they have to build themselves a holistic team, and part of that holistic team is having a uh kinesiology, got to be a kinesiology chiropractor to be able to work on them. But you don't go to a chiropractor unless you talk to me first, because I'm sorry to say I love chiropractors, but they have to do certain things for people with knee problems, and they don't do them because I went to seven of them, so I know, and I took my clients to them. But there's certain types of adjustments they need to do for people with knee problems, you know, and then you have to give my clients instructions after that. Let's get that adjustment to hold. Yeah, so we have to go into that part. So there is a whole new, you know, when I when they leave me, you gotta have your team and let me show you what your team needs to do for you. Yeah, and that's how we get you to that other side of pain.

SPEAKER_03 26:54

Fantastic. Well, I'm running a marathon next week, so I'm I'm feeling great.

SPEAKER_04 27:01

That's a one mile marathon. Oh man. It's a one mile walking marathon.

SPEAKER_03 27:14

Yeah, I'm building up right now. I'm walking, you know, I'm walking a quarter mile every day. That's it.

SPEAKER_00 27:18

He's warming up that's what I I had to do. Um, and back in 2014, when I finally found I put the recipe together, I went to I did a marathon. I walked a marathon. Matter of fact, I walked 40 40 miles to test to test it out to see if I could. And I did, and I had absolutely no knee pain after being in pain for 20 years. I said, I got it, I figured this thing out. So fantastic.

SPEAKER_04 27:44

Are you today? Are you today almost pain free?

SPEAKER_00 27:47

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 27:48

Wow. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 27:50

Yeah, and the thing is, I have to work at it. I have to tell my clients we have to work at it now. We have to stay in alignment, and I show them how to stay in alignment. I show them what we need to do, yeah, to always be able to check it.

SPEAKER_03 28:02

It's not like a one and done, yeah. No, right. Yeah, it's consistent.

SPEAKER_04 28:07

Yeah, that makes sense. But you went from debilitating pain into pain free. So, I mean, that's that's huge because and you're running, and running and exercising and strengthening simultaneously. Because some people, I would say most people give up on something, they give up on the squatting, they give up on the running, they give up on something to try to take that pain away. And then they stretch and things like that and try to relieve it, but at the same time, they have to sacrifice something because they're like, oh, that that kills my knees if I do that, that kills my knees if I do that. But you pretty much are you know pain-free in most regards. You still strengthen, you still run, you still exercise, you still stretch.

SPEAKER_00 28:42

So, I mean well, I actually I actually teach. I have um when I came off of uh out of COVID, I started teaching classes, exercise classes for people with bone on bone, meniscus tears, telephemoral syndrome, running in, you name it, they have it, they have back problem, knee problem, hip problem, they have everything because it all comes in there. And these women are fantastic, they can get down on the floor, get up, they can do anything. You know, now do we do high intensity? There is a certain way you need to do high intensity when you have our child type of challenges, but it can be done. And the thing is, they know and they understand that they have to stay in alignment when they're exercising. Yeah, and it I teach classes eight well, eight times a week. I teach two classes a day.

SPEAKER_03 29:30

And that's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 29:32

Absolutely. I mean, it can be done, it's just that we have to do certain types of exercises with people with osteoarthritis. We can't do everything, we can't keep doing lunges, and I don't do no lunges and I don't do all these squats. I mean, I can, but why?

unknown 29:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:49

What what happens to somebody when they get bone on bone? Like uh, with if if you're trying to help them and they're feeling that that grind, because I know all my friends that have had knee replacement surgery, they felt that bone on bone in their knee. So you come in, how how can you help them when you get to that point?

SPEAKER_00 30:08

Well, Dan, this is just particularly this is I'm just saying this. First thing I do is look at their x-ray. Sure.

SPEAKER_01 30:14

Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 30:14

Because I always say, because some doctors see that there's a you know, there's a gap, a little, you know, it's a little small in there, and they'll say that's bone on bone. I've seen them say it, I've seen so too many x-rays. But I always ask the people say, Do you have a meniscus? And they say, I don't know. Well, if you have a meniscus, how are you gonna have bone on bone? That's my first question to them. Okay. I understand one thing about bone on bone, it's just like inflammation. It's inflammation that is being created. I get rid of your inflammation, I get rid of your swelling, and you can exercise just fine. I've had most people in my class got bone on bone, and they can exercise just fine. Just where they have to put their feet at when they're exercising, they have to twist a certain way, and it can be done. Now, eventually I tell them also, you're gonna need surgery, you know, if I see that the bone has hit each other. You are gonna need surgery, but however, I can stabilize you enough so when you get ready to go to surgery, you come through it with flying colors. My clients go through that surgery pretty easy. They finish their rehab very quickly, but they had to get to surgery because I'll say this, um Dan, I'll just be nice here, because they stayed with the shots, the drugs and stuff a little bit too long. It didn't stop their pain, it just they just was living with that pain until it got bad enough to need surgery.

SPEAKER_02 31:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:31

And the key is we need to take these people from, you know, the doctor needs to do the diagnosis, but the doctors just cannot do what I do. And we need somebody on my side that is willing to show these people that have all this osteoarthritis in their knees, you can get rid of the pain and we can get you to exercise, but you can't stay in there in that space until the bones start to hit each other because or your knee starts to bone. I got three people in my class right now, their knees abode.

SPEAKER_01 32:01

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 32:02

But I'm stopping, but they still can exercise, and when they get ready to go to surgery, they'll be ready to go to surgery without the inflammation without all that pain, and they'll go through the surgery a lot better. Interesting.

SPEAKER_04 32:13

Yeah, I feel like that's something that's definitely overlooked is people going into surgery, they don't really start the process beforehand. They go into surgery and then start the process afterwards. That's a very common theme because nobody really rehabs their knee or does strengthening or stretching before going in. Yeah, automatically, you're at, in my opinion, you're at a disadvantage because you have surgery, you're admitted for you know five, three, four days, typically scenario, possibly go to rehab for a week. Some people who get bilateral knees done go to rehab, you know, automatically. But then you start the process of rehab right after that. And now it's like, okay, I'm already a little bit behind the eight-ball because my quads are weak, my hamstrings are weak, my ankles are probably unstable. I've been favoring one side for X amount of years. That's right. And now you're going, you know, and now you're starting from scratch, technically, in my opinion. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:01

And the thing is, if they can just get this one word, just this one word can just change the whole dynamic. These people have been limping. Their other side is already messed up. So you're gonna go and do the knee, but as soon as they come out, they're still gonna be messed up, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Still, their other side is still messed up. That's why they're gonna end up with two knee replacements, then two hip replacements. Yeah, you gotta get the people before they go into that surgery, get them back into alignment, get rid of the inflammation, get rid of the swelling, get them back, get them strong. Yeah, and get them used to exercising. My clients are so used to exercising, the physical therapist like saying, slow down because they're already used to exercising. So that's why I say for people that are ready to go into surgery, come to the Motin method. That's the name of my method. Come to the Moton method, let me get you ready for your surgery if you need it.

SPEAKER_02 33:52

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 33:53

Well, I I gotta believe that you know, people that are listening to this podcast, whether live or later on the replay, are are going to be definitely hitting up Renee Motin because you know, this this is really good information, you know, and especially if you're you know, if you're dealing with ankle pain or you know, you got tendonitis, you got, you know, some tendon problems, or what where you got knee problems, hip problems, you know, this is this is fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 34:20

I think the thing that that I want people to really get, and that's what I put in my book, my new book that I put out, is to know when it's happening. See, for me, I hurt my ankle. My ankle turned into my bottoms of my feet started to hurt. So that's the first indication something is wrong. And then I went, then I had plantar fasciitis. That's another indication something is wrong. Okay, and then next thing no, my knee was hurting. But here's some other precursors. You can if you have um bunions, if you have corns, if you have calluses, if you were orthotics, they're all telling you you're gonna have knee problems in the future. Why? Because you're not walking correctly. There's something about how you're walking, it's not right. And so it's every time you walk, you put stress on a knee. One day you're gonna do a twist or a turn, niskus tear. Yeah, I've seen that quite often.

SPEAKER_04 35:12

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 35:13

For sure.

SPEAKER_04 35:14

It's funny you say that actually. I it takes me back to this. Uh, I went to go buy sneakers one time. This is a number of years ago, and I went to this like specialty store, you know, and I didn't really know much about the the whole wellness of sneakers at that time, if that makes sense. I was always wearing like the Nikes and the Adidas and whatever else was popular at the time. So I walk in, and there's this guy there who's looking to help me, and he's wearing these shoes that are like have nothing, they're like his bare feet pretty much off the ground. And I was like, I gotta ask you, like, what are you wearing? He's like, Well, I'm teaching myself how to walk. This guy's like 50. He's like, I'm teaching myself how to walk. And I was like, I'm sure you know how to walk, you know, like, and he's like, He's like, Yeah, but I don't know how to walk correctly. And I was like, and and that always stuck in my mind, and like this guy started testing my gait, checking my inversion on my ankles, my knees, the whole chain of command, pretty much. Like, and I'm like, all right, and then he puts me on like this whole gate stability thing, checking my balance between left and right, and I'm just like, buy sneakers, man.

SPEAKER_03 36:19

You know, like and uh and after that, you said specialty, you said specialty store.

SPEAKER_04 36:26

I was like, I'm just gonna buy sneakers, man. And then after that, but now I go in with that mindset when I actually do look for sneakers and things like that, like the gate and uh you know the abnormality and what's left greater than right, what my stride, everything like that. This guy looked at all that stuff and he showed me. He's like, he's like, I'm learning how to walk again. This is my he said you want to be closest to the ground to start, it was the way he described things. Like he wants to be grounded, so to speak, with almost his bare feet on the ground, and then a platform under him. So that's like he had like build up the chain a little bit. Yeah, it's interesting because I feel like that's something that's overlooked is like the or the whole thing of gait and what people wear on their feet and their ergonomics and how they do things for a living, and they're you know, sitting for prolonged periods, standing for prolonged periods, lifting, things like that. The whole the form, the ergonomics or everything is just way overlooked, in my opinion. Nobody really teaches that.

SPEAKER_00 37:18

Oh you know, you uh I used to I gotta round up. You don't you can't even start with me until I get a gate analysis from you.

SPEAKER_02 37:32

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:33

Because if you're not walking, I already know if you're not walking correctly. We that's and that way you'd also know it too. But a gate analysis is the most important thing. But when I've taken my clients, you know, well, I'm gonna go, but anyway, gate analysis, people shouldn't even be walking, they shouldn't be running because until they get a gate analysis. Because I've seen people take they walking for three miles a day, and then all of a sudden they can't because their knee will start hurting or their foot will start to hurt. Yeah, that's because they're just they're just not walking correctly.

SPEAKER_03 38:03

Yep, yeah. So you know, Barefoot is the name of a of a shoe company. Um, and so you know, Hoka came into play and really changed the direction of other shoe companies because all of a sudden they started going with these big foam, you know, platforms for you know for Cush. And I bought a pair at one point and I didn't like them. Uh and it was, you know, I go with a lower profile, you know, foam shoe, and because I I and it's a little bit wider, you know, than the foot, and I just and it kind of goes back to what you're talking about, Dan, as far as grounding, right? Um, it just the hoka with the cush just didn't work for me because what it was doing, it was it was just like you were talking earlier, forcing everything to a roll.

SPEAKER_00 38:55

Yeah, yeah. In my classes, that was the first thing everybody wants to talk about. Renee, what shoes should I wear? Don't buy any shoes. Why? Because your ankles aren't working right, your feet aren't working right. We got to get you first, we got to get your foundation. That's what I do. I build your foundation. Make sure your ankles are working, calves, shins, make sure everything is functional down there first. Now, let's go find some shoes to wear. But get shoes when you're dysfunctional, is that's not gonna help you.

SPEAKER_04 39:25

Sure. Right. No, absolutely true, absolutely true. It's funny because you know, the the word and James Rupert, who was just at uh, you know, in Portland with Russ over the weekend, he would be interested in this conversation because he's a functional PT. And he kind of brings a lot of things up that are overlooked in the realm of physical therapy these days. He's more focused on neurophysiological connections, you know, mind-muscle connection, things like that. And he's always on the standpoint of like it may not be that area that's truly the issue, being that maybe you have knee pain, but it may not be your knee, it could be something else, it could be malalignment, your ankles, your hips, and things like that. Something that he always kind of preached a little bit as we you know, we've had a couple of conversations with him. I think he'd be truly intrigued by this conversation right here. But it's true though, because a lot of times, like you know, we touched on a little bit before, it's alignment most of the time. And like you're saying here, the walking, the gate analysis. When you I just a quick question for you as we're doing this, do you have people like video chat you and things like that, and you show them they show you how to walk, they how they walk, and you kind of like you work on the process, or is it always in person with you?

SPEAKER_00 40:33

No, they send them from I got class from all over the world, so yeah. They send them to me and uh I check them out.

SPEAKER_02 40:40

Yeah, yeah. So interesting. Yes, yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:47

You know, I have when um people come to me and they say, Um, you know, Renee, I have hip problems or I have back problems, or I have neck problems. I said, I'm not worried about your neck, you have I'm not worried about any of that yet. Because I have to go through my step by steps. I go through step one, step two, step three, step four, step five. Now let's see what the real problem is. Because we got to get them back into a lot, get some, get them balanced back into them, and then we can find out what the problem is. To go after your if somebody has has their neck problem has a neck problem, you shouldn't just go after the neck. You got to find out how they're walking, if they got a hip problem, a back problem. It's just you just that's why well, chiropractors. Why do you always wonder why people's adjustment would keep going off? Yeah, you know, because of that, you know, because they they're adjusting, which is fantastic, they feel good, but then when they go out and walk again, then they it throws the adjustment off.

SPEAKER_03 41:39

Yeah, yeah. So one month ago you launched a book, and I'd love for you to share about your book with our audience.

SPEAKER_00 41:49

Okay, yes, yes. I um it's called uh knee pain relief, and I'm sorry, Dan, again, but I put why standard care fails.

SPEAKER_03 42:02

I was so looking forward to this conversation today.

SPEAKER_00 42:05

Why standard care fails. I was trying to do it, I was trying to say it, I was gonna say something, you know, but put it this way. What I all my research, even though my book is about why standard care fails, is because when I started really look at what doctors actually do, you know, they they diagnose and they treat, they don't have all this time to investigate. And they wasn't really taught to do all this investigating and find out deep down what's the root cause of people's problems, you know, when especially when it comes to orthopedic doctor, orthopedic doctors in the sense of need. Now, about the other stuff I don't know, but I know my I've talked to enough clients to figure that out. But I just only thing I put in this book about it was that you can have your doctors, but you need other people to help you. You know, they're just not you just can't go to your orthopedic doctor and think they're gonna be there and be all. There's other options that you can go to, and that's what I was sharing with them. You have two doors, you can go get yourself healed, or you can go get your your pain managed because that's what the doctors do, they manage the pain because that's what they were trained to do. I'm I know how to heal your knees, which is a little bit which is different. And I just say, which door do you want? You want to get healed, or you want to be managed.

SPEAKER_04 43:20

Yeah, so yeah, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 43:21

That's what my book is all about.

SPEAKER_04 43:23

Where can people find that book, Renee?

SPEAKER_00 43:26

Um, I am on Amazon at the moment. Um I'll be doing, I'm gonna be sending out some more stuff. I'm gonna be doing some um book signings coming up pretty soon. So I'll be sending that out to the world too to let them know so they can meet me in person, have their book signed by me. So it's gonna be that's awesome. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 43:43

Awesome. That's super exciting. Love it. Wow.

SPEAKER_04 43:46

Love it. And Renee, can people buy the the knee device that you created to help work on the ankle?

SPEAKER_00 43:55

Absolutely. This is um on my website. Me and um Amazon are having a problem. It's on Amazon, but we have no problem. But you can go right on uh right on uh healmynees.com and you see the word strap and you'll be there and I'll have the book is gonna be on that same page. So you can get the book and the strap at the same time. So the uh inside of the book it has you can um it has a place uh uh a QR code in the book that you can get the strap also, so it's in here. But the the book will talk about that you're gonna need the strap in order to be able to do the whole process.

SPEAKER_03 44:36

So they all do me a do me a favor, uh hold up that QR code to the screen and hold it there for uh a few seconds. Somebody can be able to do it right now, right? Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna try it.

SPEAKER_00 44:53

Okay, let me see if I can find the oh here.

SPEAKER_03 44:57

Hold it right up there. Let's see what happens. See if that works. Hold steady.

SPEAKER_00 45:01

Well, can you see? Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 45:04

Hold steady. Oh, a little there is it working. Uh uh, I can't get it to work. Well, let me see. Can you get it to work down?

SPEAKER_04 45:15

No, I'm uh oh yeah, it works.

SPEAKER_03 45:19

Yep, I got it. I did, yeah, I did. Look right there. Boom. Nice, perfect.

SPEAKER_00 45:25

That's crazy.

SPEAKER_03 45:26

Okay, so you know, if anybody, you know, if anybody was doing what I was doing, it does work. The knee pain reduction strap, yeah, the moton method system.

SPEAKER_00 45:36

Nice, yeah, and it has the uh uh the instructions on there. They all I have it all uh videotaped, the instructions on there how to do that. There you go. See, there's me.

SPEAKER_04 45:49

Renee, you don't really have to have knee pain though to use it, right? Like using this just preventatively and things like that, right?

SPEAKER_00 45:55

The most excited part is I'm going into high schools. Ah yes, excellent. I'm going into high schools, colleges, and I'm gonna start to teach this before they can start to learn that they need to pay attention to the right side of their bodies compared to the left. They're gonna learn about ankle rotation, they're gonna learn about all this stuff. Um, so many ACL tears and meniscus tears. I'm gonna be really just educating them on how they can work on preventing those types of injuries.

SPEAKER_04 46:27

Interesting. Very interesting. Love it.

SPEAKER_00 46:30

I changed my that just saying.

SPEAKER_03 46:35

Yeah, amazing. I was affirming that.

SPEAKER_00 46:37

I I think that what I was finding when I was most of my clients were over 50, mostly, and they were mostly women, but they have gotten to the place where they kind of accepted some to a to a degree, and plus they've heard so many different ways of how they, you know, use this cream, use that, use the oil, use this, and they they're not easy for me to say, you know, there's another way, they're not that open to it. But now you have these younger kids never heard of anything except for what I'm gonna be teaching them about about your ankles, their feet, their toes, their calves, their shins. They're gonna learn all that stuff in high school. So that's exciting.

SPEAKER_03 47:20

Wow, that is exciting. Yes, wow, yes, preventative business. Good for you. Yeah, that's great. Amazing. Well, I got one more question for you. Closing line is this, and I want you to I want you to give us some feedback on your thoughts. Wellness is not about perfection, but it's about progress. Tell us your thoughts about that statement.

SPEAKER_00 47:42

Oh gosh, wellness.

SPEAKER_03 47:44

Uh oh, I got her. I got her. I got her. That was the Dr. Will question. There is Dr. Will.

unknown 47:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 47:52

I I just I um I have this the word wellness. Um, this is just a complete package of how you, you know, I I wake up every day happy, you know. You know, I don't have pain and I don't have I just wake up every day happy and to get to that level of being in pain for so long and to come to this place right now where I can do whatever I want to, all because of wellness, all because I went that route of learning so much about wellness. I mean, 20 years of just studying wellness and to get to this place where I can share that to the world. I'm blessed.

SPEAKER_03 48:35

You are blessed. And we're blessed to have you on our show today. Thank you, thank you, Renee, for coming on today, sharing you know, um, your method, your book, your happiness, because you are definitely infectious when it comes to what you exude in your presence. So thank you for sharing that with us and blessing us and all of our viewers today, and for those that are going to see us in the future. So, um, what what is the best way? If somebody is uh to look to communicate to you, how how can they reach out? If they're struggling today with some pain and their ankles, their knees, their hips, what how can people communicate to you?

SPEAKER_00 49:13

Um, the best way is go to healmynees.com.

SPEAKER_03 49:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 49:17

A chat box will jump up, and I see that you know, I get messages, notifications that somebody put a message in there, so I'll know immediately that you put a message in there.

SPEAKER_03 49:27

Are you gonna answer or is your AI assistant gonna answer?

unknown 49:30

I will.

SPEAKER_00 49:32

Because people leave, like they'll talk about their their knees or whatever, so AI doesn't know that they'll go. Okay. I'm not that sophisticated yet.

SPEAKER_03 49:43

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_04 49:44

Uh this was a great conversation, Renee. Thank you so much for being here this morning. This was really informational. I hope a lot of people got a lot out of this. Please reach out to Renee on social media. Please reach out to her at healmynees.com. Check out her book on Amazon, and hopefully the strap gets to Amazon soon. Pending uh converse future conversations. Please check us out on all social media handles at Dual Codes Podcast. Give us a listen on Spotify, Amazon Music, and Apple Podcasts. Thank you, everybody, so much for listening. We'll see you guys.

SPEAKER_03 50:13

Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 50:14

Renee, thank you so much again.

SPEAKER_03 50:15

Thank you, Renee. Thank you so much for having me awesome.