Seafood, Science and Nutrition

In this exciting episode of Dual Coast Podcast, hosts Dan Scoca and Russell Rogers sit down with Dan Jenkin and Melissa Mahoney for a fascinating conversation about the connection between fishing, nutrition, and overall health.

Dan and Melissa share their experiences on the West Coast fishing scene, the journey of bringing fresh seafood from ocean to plate, and why seafood remains one of the most nutrient-dense foods available. Together, they discuss the health benefits of incorporating seafood into your diet, including its role in heart health, brain function, recovery, longevity, and overall wellness.

Whether you’re an avid fisherman, health enthusiast, athlete, or simply looking to improve your nutrition, this episode offers valuable insights into the importance of sustainable seafood and how making smarter food choices can positively impact your life.

🔥 In this episode, we discuss:
●The West Coast fishing lifestyle and culture
●The nutritional benefits of seafood
●Omega-3 fatty acids and overall health
●Sustainable fishing practices
●Seafood’s role in athletic performance and recovery
●Common misconceptions about seafood consumption
●How to incorporate more seafood into your diet
●The connection between food quality and long-term wellness

If you’re passionate about health, nutrition, outdoor living, and optimizing your performance, this is an episode you won’t want to miss.

🎙️ Dual Coast Podcast brings together inspiring guests from across the country to discuss health, wellness, entrepreneurship, mindset, fitness, and personal growth.

👍 Like, Subscribe, and Share to support the show and help us continue bringing you meaningful conversations every week.


#DualCoastPodcast #SeafoodNutrition #FishingLife #WestCoastFishing #HealthyEating #Omega3 #Nutrition #Wellness #FunctionalHealth #Seafood #HealthyLifestyle #Podcast #FitnessNutrition #Longevity #HealthAndWellness #SustainableFishing #CoastalLiving 

@Dualcoastpodcast @Russellrogersofficial @Danscoca

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

You can switch.

SPEAKER_04 0:02

Only have a t-shirt on underneath. Is that bad?

SPEAKER_02 0:04

You're good. We're live. Welcome back to another exciting episode of Dual Ghost Podcast. I'm your host, Dan Skoga. Jump on my West Coast co-host Russ Rogers, and we are joined by two very special guests this morning, Melissa Mahoney and Dan Jenkin. Uh, both of you guys for being here. No West and Jenkins. So much for being here this morning. We really appreciate it. Yeah, thanks for having us.

SPEAKER_03 0:28

Absolutely. And these are my West, these are my West Coast homies right here, man. I know. Right here in Santa Cruz. This is awesome to have you both here. Um, these two are two brilliant minds in the fish industry. And I am excited about today because not only do I play volleyball with Dan, but uh these guys, uh Marine Scientist, uh Melissa Mahoney. Dan works for a company over uh just south of here and works in the UC system and expanding greatly into the schools, the universities, um, just about healthy eating, healthy diets, eating more fish. You know, it's um uh what's what's Chick-fil-A, you know, eat eat more cows, eat more chicken. You know, the cows say eat more chicken. When with Dan is saying eat more fish. So uh we're glad to have you guys on Dual Coast this morning. And tell us what's going on in your life lately. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:28

Oh gosh. Well, yes. Um personally, yeah. Uh I have a 17-year-old son, and um, if any if any parents out there of teenagers are out there, my heart goes out to you in in both the all of the amazing things that they get up to and all of the scary things that they have access to and the world that they're in, and um just the the struggles of uh teenagers. It's uh we're we're in it and uh Dan and I live together, and so he is a a kind of friend and mentor to my son. And uh yeah, we're we're we're on that roller coaster right now. So personally, that's taking up a lot of space in my life. And um I have kind of doubled down on uh learning about what it what parenting really looks like from a uh a wellness perspective, really a healthy perspective. Um, how do I keep the focus on myself? And and I know that I'm the only person that I can control out here in the world. So I've really been doubling down lately on uh that that mantra and uh working on my own accountability and how I show up, and then expecting that my son and other people in in my life do the same. And I think that's that's kind of a that's sort of a number a number one mantra that uh we can all think about as we move through our our days that that might end up helping us get through it a little easier to know that that we have to be responsible for ourselves and we can let everybody else be responsible for themselves.

SPEAKER_03 3:14

That's awesome. That's right. Well, one I know one of the things that you deal with for yourself that you know, from a healthy perspective, that both of you love to do is when you go to Mexic, you love to surf. And that is your opportunity to basically unwind, get out in the water, catch some incredible waves, and enjoy a healthy lifestyle. Dan, tell us about the the latest wave that you've caught, whether it be here or down in Max.

SPEAKER_00 3:42

Yeah, I haven't been surfing enough lately, but uh I went on a trip to Taiwan a few weeks back and was not on my radar at all, but it is an amazing surf destination and subtropical, the water was almost 80 degrees. And uh friend of mine told me the east coast of Taiwan is the big sur of Asia. So I was intrigued right away, and um, so into culinary arts right now, and uh seafood is my jam, and I was super excited just to expand my own perception of uh you know how how to live healthily in a totally different culture. Uh, I've traveled in Asia a little, not a lot, but uh it just opened my mind, and we got some great little waves. It was small but wonderful people, and um that feeling of tribe always exists anywhere you go in the world. Same with volleyball. I I get in games in the middle of Paris and Savannah, Georgia, and anywhere I am, I've I've entered the water, entered the court, and made friends. So that's been a wonderful thing. Um, but I just want to kind of touch on what Melissa said and bring it back to what we're talking about today because we're both in our 50s, and the the theme of for me slow living has become really important because number one, my body hurts a lot. You know, I still go hard. Um, we're doing outrigger paddling, surfing, and beach volleyball. For me, that's like the triple crown of growing old in a healthy way and a really positive lifestyle with great communities all around each of those sports. And it hurts uh my soul, my ego, my heart to admit that I am getting a little bit older. But um, it's okay to forgive yourself for not being the top performer, perhaps that you used to be, and work on the inside stuff. Uh, the heart, the mind, the the ability to control your emotions and your reactions in the midst of a storm and really challenging situations lately. So um, yeah, slow living and really kind of dialing in the essence of the source of happiness, which is different than contentment. We're learning that nuance as well.

SPEAKER_04 6:03

We had that discussion recently of the difference between being content and being happy, and how in I think, especially in the states, we're on this endless search for well, if I can just have this job or get this car or be in this spot, I'll be happy. And um I think in our relationship, we have come to know that just being content, being able to be content with the mess, the joy, the sorrow, the all the stuff is is actually such a beautiful. Um I mean, because it's reality, you know, sometimes there's a real high, and that's great, but what goes up must come down. And so I'm kind of I'm kind of enjoying the the middle path.

SPEAKER_00 6:52

That's exactly right. Well, it it brings you, it it drops you right into the moment every time for me. Uh obviously I reminisce, I've had some great times with good friends, and I look forward to a lot of great things in life, but I love my moment right now with you two. You three. It's it's um it's a practice that we lose sight of. So that's been a really a really good rooting and um kind of a grounding uh experience that's new to me because yeah, trying to use trying to use this mind a little bit better now.

SPEAKER_03 7:29

Oh, that's awesome. That's good, that's great.

SPEAKER_02 7:33

Melissa and then tell us a little bit about what you both specialize in over there in California. What do you what do you both do? Give us a little background real quick. You first.

SPEAKER_04 7:42

Um, okay, what do I do? Well, I um I am a trained uh marine scientist, so I I came to California from I grew up in Colorado, so I was a landlocked kid who loved the ocean. So I eventually made my way out here and studied marine science and then have kind of made my career path uh surprisingly from the marine sciences into conservation work, into policy work, into uh really getting at the getting at the solution of sustainable fisheries and sustainable seafood by realizing that it's it's as much about understanding the marine system as it is about understanding the human system. And that uh, you know, some some conservation efforts try and uh remove or protect or you know, keep people out of a certain area. Um, I think what I've learned is that people need to eat and they need to feed their families. And if us there's a situation where they don't have any other choice or they're not engaged in the management of the resource, they're just gonna do whatever they want or need to do. Uh, and so I took a kind of a surprising uh turn, an unexpected turn in my career path about 15 years ago to become more of a social scientist. And um, I now uh run a nonprofit. I work with fishermen and policy leaders and fishery managers and all kinds of folks to help get at this question of how can we have a thriving seafood economy here in Monterey Bay? How can we have a viable commercial fishery, which a lot in a lot of people's minds, when I say commercial fishery, they think of like, I don't know, big industrial fishing vessel or something like that. But what I'm talking about are many, many small boat individual, you know, fishermen and their families, small operations, which we still have here on the California coast, just a little bit left. And uh what I want to see happen is, you know, that seafood access is tied to that commercial fleet. If we are uh, you know, not everybody has a boat or a fishing pole or the the the ability to go catch their own seafood. And that is our last wild fish. That is a public resource that all Americans uh own, have access to out to 200 miles. And our commercial fishermen are, I believe, the the best stewards of that resource. And so I'm working with them, you know, every day, every week to try and figure out how do we balance conservation with commerce so that we can, you know, have our fish landed here and have less food miles on our seafood protein and nourish our community. So that's what I do.

SPEAKER_03 10:54

Wow, wow, that is amazing.

SPEAKER_00 10:56

Yeah, yeah. Seafood royalty right here.

SPEAKER_04 11:03

I don't know about that. I don't know about that. I've I've never worked on a fishing boat. I um I tried when I was out of college, I tried to get on a fishing boat as an observer, a scientific observer. And um, it was that was back in the early 90s. And um, I don't think they really liked to let women on boats in Alaska. It was kind of rough. And anyway, I just I don't have that, but I've spent a lot of time around the docks and talking with fishermen. And I so I have some understanding, but I really lean on them to understand the complexities of what's happening out there. And I I have a ton of respect as a scientist um hearing what they have to say about the system because they they might not have all the language that fancy science has, but they they know what's going on out there and they're they are needed in the management conversation. So that's a lot of what we do too is try and engage them, help them be able to go to meetings, to know when meetings are, to do trainings if they can, and to just to help reimburse their costs for going to meetings because nobody's paying for them to go to a meeting like they're paying an ocean a conservation group to go to a meeting. Sure.

SPEAKER_00 12:18

Yep, sure. Wow. Yeah, and you know, the thing that connects us is this experience. And I learned everything I know about the fishing industry from Melissa, and then of course was introduced to all the right people that got me into my my position now at Real Good Fish based in Moss Landing. And what we experience is hey, it's one thing to catch a fish, which is hard, life-threatening, really challenging to find the fish. It's not like you go to a shelf and pull something off there, it's swimming away from you all the time. Yeah, once you get it in, it's a whole set of other problems, and that has to do with processing it, getting it to the back door of a kitchen. There are so many steps in between where that can fall apart. Logistically speaking, then for me, I'm trying to get this last wild protein, this amazing source of nutrition in so many so many other ways, um, onto the trays of of children's lunch plates. And you know, that uh that's a whole different challenge just to get it on the tray. Then they have to look at it, smell it, want to eat it, then they have to eat it and enjoy it so much they want it again. Right. So, you know, we're we're competing with nuggets and burgers and pizza, and uh, I've I feel like I'm I'm cracking the code right now as to how to appeal to that uh very very uh complex landscape. But you know, Melissa does this work that ties it all together from fishermen to chefs to policymakers, uh, and everything in between. And that is a very delicate alchemy, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:04

Yeah, yeah, you know, going back for the last um and and you can fill in the detail on this, but I believe for the last two years, maybe three, there has been a limit limited time on fishing for salmon here on the Pacific Coast, right? Yes, what how does that impact your business and what you guys are doing? And I I believe they've opened it up this year. I don't know if there's parameters that they've set on it for this year, but you know, yeah, give us give us uh an idea on the impact that that makes on what you're doing here up and down the coast.

SPEAKER_04 14:41

Yeah, I'll I'll talk about the big picture and then Dan can talk about just from a business perspective. But yeah, the the this the commercial king salmon fishery has been closed since 2023. So um, yeah, the fleet, it's a it's a four to five million dollar industry here. So it is uh huge when it's when it's closed. Not only do the the fishermen can't get paid, but all of the services that they need, all of that landing and receiving the the harbor, the ports that they're landing the fish in, they they pay warfage and there's activities and fuel being bought and and all of those things not happening for three years. There it was declared a disaster, federal disaster. And that's that's always to unleash funding to help the folks who are affected get through it. But I will say that um that process takes so long. So the so the 2023 season, so six almost six years ago, they just got paid. Uh over, I think they just got paid like maybe four months ago for that season. They still haven't gotten paid anything for uh 2024. And last year is just a joke, like that they're not gonna probably not gonna get anything. So the protection around, you know, sort of like farmers, you know, farmers have bad crop years. And in the farm bill, they've had lots of representation. They they get help when that sort of stuff happens. The fishermen generally don't. Um, and so they have gone into um, you know, other fisheries. Like there was a when when they can't catch salmon, they catch a lot of halibut. And then you, you know, we halibut's great, California halibut's great, but you can only bring in so much, and then you have a supply glut glut, and they they're not making money on that either. Some of them hung it up for a while and went and did, you know, trade jobs on land. Some of them sold their boats and got out. Um, I'm working on a report right now um where we're looking at um trends in our commercial fisheries in Monterey Bay, and you can just watch the, you know, just this and many other things, just the the downward slide of of the people involved in fishing here. It's just it's really hard. So um there's the on the harvest side, there's that. And then on the you know, shore side, when those fish aren't coming in, what's happening in the market is the restaurants and the markets, and they're they still need to to offer seafood to people. So they're sourcing it from Alaska, they're sourcing it from Chile, where there's a ton of farmed salmon that isn't that great environmentally, but people want their fish. And unfortunately, it's it's it's really hard for the consumer to be like sort of up and educated and knowing all these things. Um, and so I don't, you know, I don't blame the consumer for you know buying whatever it is, but it's sort of once King Salmon kind of loses its place in the market, it's it's often a little hard to get that, to get that back. And that's um another reason why the the Monterey Bay Fisheries Trust is the organization that I run. I forgot to mention that. Um, but we are promoting uh fresh local seafood. And so when salmon returns, we are doing a lot of effort to help the consumer remember and recognize that it's super special for us to have local salmon. And we're not uh out of the water yet, we're not out of the woods yet with salmon. It's still there's still a lot of struggles. And it's um I I want to make sure your listeners know that it's not about overfishing for salmon. Salmon um start their lives in the rivers and then they come out to the ocean to become adults and feed, and then they go back up the river to spawn. And in California and in our um Sacramento Valley watershed, especially the rivers have been damaged by dams. The flows have been diverted to the Central Valley for agriculture. There's just all kinds of uh river policies that have hurt the salmon's population in the rivers. And so we need the state and that that there's just sort of this idea that now in drought years, there's kind of not enough water for the fish and the farmers, and that is really tricky for California politics. Um, but um, those of us who care about salmon, we're you know, we're making our voices heard in Sacramento and making sure that river policies reflect the need to protect salmon. Because can you imagine California without salmon? Yeah, it's you know, it's possible. There's there's strain. So um that is that is a side of it, and that's the conservation side. So it's all these different dynamics, uh, you know, the economics of it, the disaster funding, the um consumer choices, and recognizing when it comes back, and then how do we make sure that we have good river policies to keep salmon coming down the rivers and going back up the rivers?

SPEAKER_03 20:11

Wow, very well explained. Yeah, very well explained.

SPEAKER_00 20:14

Yeah, and this is the first time in so many years, and people are out there just so excited catching fish. Um, you know, part of the problem is that, you know, we're dealing with uh a competitive market, and so I hear a lot of the things that she's working on, inner the inner workings of it, and I kind of translate that into my own world, which is well, how do I get people to understand it? How do I get them to really make this um this balance between land and sea more salient? And you know, the what she's talking about is the the term blue economy or the working waterfront. You know, when when you inject, when you stay local and sustainable, you're putting money back into the community, into our working economy on the water. And really, for us in Monterey Bay, this is our identity. This is this maritime tradition, this family fishing generational experience is one of the most important things that draws people here. You know, cannery row, Chapino, the seafood experience is one of those very unique uh flavors that we have. And it's that's what I love about seafood. It's a little bit different on the East Coast. Every town you go to, every region has their own thing, right? And that's based on what's found in their waters there. And so um, it is our identity. I feel really, really strongly about that. So, one of the things that I'm trying to do uh is plant the seed with the next generation. I want the kids to meet a producer who puts the food on the table and tie that experience to the source of their. nutrients of their daily food. Once you do that, you have this passion, this connection to the source of your food. And what does that do? Just like fishermen, it makes you want to protect it and look after it. And we talk about this word sustainability a lot, but not a lot of people know exactly what it means. It is about five faceted to uh to explain um you know how how this protects the environment and uh the ecosystems that are being fished, but also pass it on, sustain the industry, the experience down to the next generation. And that's really tough for fishermen. They're up against every challenge in the books. They want to fish but they're meant to be marketers, salespeople, lawyers. They have to understand all this policy landscape.

SPEAKER_04 22:50

Mechanics.

SPEAKER_00 22:51

Mechanics yeah and you're out there risking your life I mean yeah yeah this is one of the most noble uh experiences and jobs I think that exists on the planet. My dad was a commercial shell fisherman doing muscles. So I grew up with bloody knuckles, you know, in the intertidal zone. I learned how to forage from a very young age because he'd take us out to a remote island and bring no food and just say hey you boys get down there and find food snails.

SPEAKER_04 23:22

Child abuse child abuse I don't know anything I can see it now.

SPEAKER_00 23:27

I can see it Hog Island the mouth the mouth of Tamales Bay going out to Hog Island where the great whites breed and feed uh you know we didn't we didn't care we didn't know I didn't know but um you know it's it's that connection to the source not just of your food but I mean we're 70% water salt water there's something that comes you know surfers will all tell you the same sort of story that uh it's a calming feeling it's like a zen experience you you have to block out everything just to focus on what's happening in the water because there's current there's wind there's sharks there's big waves there's rocks there's other people and um it becomes uh just just such an essential life experience to to have this connection to the water and it has to be the deep canyon don't forget the deep canyon that's right yeah good point yeah yeah so anyway um together she teaches me and I do my little simple computations in my mind and like oh that would taste good and you know experimenting a lot in the kitchen but working with kids getting their hands on the food and understanding that this you know you can meet a farmer at the farmer's market but fishermen are a little bit more elusive you don't meet a lot of fishermen and when you have that direct experience the land and sea experience um in particular that's one of the things that I'm I'm working on she's working on it more than I am but um we have a partner called Sea Harvest down in Moss Landing and um the Dyerley family third generation is already on the water at eight years old 10 years old you know getting salty but they're they're grinding up the fish carcasses and the waste and turning it into a fertilizer that's an incredibly nutrient dense uh product that goes back into the ground to our nearby farms here and guess what we love it because that water that runoff comes right into the bay and they're not using a lot of chemicals and nasty products that pollutes our waters we have this last link this regenerative link that creates a beautiful cycle and it feeds each other so that land and sea connection is one of the stories that that is most prominent on the tip of my tongue these days wow wow interesting great education man yeah great education yeah let's eat you brought up an interesting point before when you go to these schools and you try to instill in these kids you know the nutritional benefits of fish and what it does for you and you know and I know it's probably hard to convey that message to children because they probably look at fish as kind of like you know all right I really not used to this or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 26:24

Most people look at it and they say okay it's full of protein what would you say are some of the other underrated nutritional benefits of fish that probably people overlook well I'll start with omega 3s yep I mean that breaks the blood brain barrier instantly you get that in your body and your mind comes alive.

SPEAKER_00 26:44

It's very good to combat ADHD uh you know really helps students focus after lunch I get tired I want to take a nap kids are probably similar um you know there's trace minerals there's uh anti-inflammatory properties for the joints um we're we're putting a uh black cod jerky out there it's not on the menus yet but it's like a smoked fish jerky needs little work but we got a pineapple uh tamari flavor that's out of this world and it is higher in omega 3s than salmon wow so uh it also promotes serotonin in the brain so you're talking about high energy focus happiness pain free i want to get it in the in the bodies of uh of athletes like a grab and go they have what's called a supper pack it's like a four o'clock three four o'clock sometimes in the end of the day sometimes that's the last meal that people get before they go home so you know that's that's one thing omega 3s is easy but there's trace minerals of all sorts yeah the trace minerals um like selenium is one that has been linked to uh helping with depression and anxiety so um that's you know um I'm I'm actually referencing a website um of a a group that did a nutritional study on several species of west coast uh rockfish and flatfish that are commonly found up and down the coast um and so yeah uh her website has just a lot of a lot of great information but yeah like Dan said it's the omega-3 fatty acids the DHA and EPA it's selenium it's all the trace minerals and the protein to fat ratio I'm trying to I'm trying to grab it for a couple species but I can't seem to find it but um she did a they did a comparison across um like chicken beef pork spinach which is one of the highest um protein um leafy greens that you can have and and seafood and so for the when uh a couple of these species of seafood are um analyzed for their protein to fat ratio against beef pork and chicken the seafood is leaner leaner protein with the fat and the fat is good fat so it it just um I want to encourage any of your readers who are are really health conscious and looking at um you know diet hacks um seafood is just it's such a powerhouse and um the website that um if you're on the West Coast um there are similar species on the east coast but for the west coast um you can look up the nutrition facts for this at Positively groundfish um they did a really great they did a full nutritional analysis a few years ago and they have um you know good data on the nutritional content of something like 12 12 of our main species um groundfish simply meant means the fish that are caught on or near the bottom that's just what that that term references and you also have a groundfish fishery out in New England you have your your cod and your haddock and your flounders and all of that and I would assume that there's a similar nutritional profile going on out there.

SPEAKER_04 30:24

But I I don't know where the data are for that. But Positively groundfish is an organization that's been working for a few years now to try and you know revitalize and raise back up these species that were lost due to another federal fishery disaster that happened 25 years ago when that was a fishery that they they were fishing the stocks too hard and there was some habitat damage and it was completely transformed and it's now one of the most sustainable fisheries we have. But again they they lost market share and they're trying to get that back and they're they're up against cheap white fish like tilapia and pollock from Alaska and and and things that are um you know again without the nutritional content and the consumer education people generally look for price um so so yeah those are some of the nutritional benefits and yeah encourage folks to go to Positively groundfish and um check it out for themselves.

SPEAKER_00 31:30

That's awesome yeah and and when you think about the fact that seafood is the most traded commodity on the planet and think about why everybody has water not everybody so much waterfront you're gonna extract your food from what's right in front of you if you can that is a huge benefit to our industry it also is a challenge because you know what she's talking about is important but you can you can easily get super bogged down in the details in the issues I understand that and I'm talking to younger people who may not want to hear all that so what I do is I try to cut through it with an experience and that experience is touching it making making something delicious to go on top of it. I'm working a lot with sauces right now and trying to trying to get this experience happening in a way that becomes more vital more more direct and more immediate in that way so you know what what we're up against is a market awareness and um for me it's just simple I'm implanting an idea an experience because I had this when I was a young kid and you become your parents at some point and you know I waited 50 years to become my father but this is the work that I bet he was dreaming that uh that I would take on someday. And um it's just so gratifying I think to have this continuation process where we're you know we're we're empowering a next generation to eat well to protect our our tradition our maritime history here to have a direct relationship with the ocean or the land you know I don't want to exclude farmers and and agricultural producers. It's sort of ironic because when when I go into these situations there's a lot of talk about organic sustainable regenerative but wild protein sustainable seafood is not in the conversation very often. So for example Melissa's meeting with the representative's assistant uh Alex Padilla one of our two California senators today she is having big conversations with policymakers at the highest levels we happen the the founder owner of real good fish alan lovell if you're listening alan what up love you bro uh total genius in so many ways um has a master's in environmental policy he was commercial fisherman alan uh and his beautiful wife jen they uh they run real good fish and alan happens to know the person who helped co-author uh the appropriation funds for the brand new department of seafood that was just created a few weeks ago under the USDA so they're only uh I think one person in that department because they only have $5000 budget right now but he took them out fishing three people from the USDA we're talking to the people who run this brand new department of seafood and asking questions you know what do you need do you need data do you need stories do you need interviews of directors of nutrition who I'm working with that run the super co-op 249 school districts in California that collectively have more purchasing power than any restaurant chain in America and I think de facto the world probably but this this is power purchasing procurement as we call it in the industry is power and influencing uh people to make these types of choices that again honor the tradition the the management of these fisheries uh the balance this delicate balance that Melissa is really helping to maintain and and push forward that's really what we're up against and and that affects our diet our health our wellness um in so many ways very directly yeah so you're you're going out and working with uh some some great chefs at the universities right you're going up and down the coast what what are some of the things that that you're learning from these chefs who have been doing this stuff what are you learning from them and what are they learning from you as you're going in to really kind of uh impact uh these universities what the what the students are going to be you know eating more of on a regular basis yeah that's a great question um well universities hospitals k through twelve this is our program that we call bait to tray Trey being the scaled up cafeteria level um you know so we're talking about big numbers thousands and thousands of meals a day and that's difficult number one to do in a way that's tasty number two that is sustainable because you know when you get up to that level uh you're you're dealing with competitive marketing landscapes that drive the cost down and the questionable practices come into play there because you're talking about farmed salmon from Chile which is high density antibiotics pumped in to keep disease out so many things we won't go down that rabbit hole but I'm lucky that uh a lot of these chefs are well trained they're from Cordon Bleu from the CIA uh the other CIA the Culinary Institute of America which is um you know the most respected culinary institute uh that we have domestically here and uh highly trained you know couple Michelin star chefs I work with a guy named Darryl Valore from Hayward who has worked in three Michelin star restaurants uh in San Francisco he runs the Hayward Unified School District uh culinary and uh nutritional experience for 50 000 meals a day I think it's huge so I learned from them how to scale up to that volume level they learn from me a little bit more of the story where it comes from uh how to connect that to a an experience that they tell to their students I get there and they ask me questions sometimes um at the university level they get involved uh they they have classes that are working with uh with the chefs with us directly gathering data feedback telling this um this story about culture and you know Dan I think you you mentioned something uh that was it sparked the idea in my head you know how do how do we actually get people to like seafood kids in particular I think it's a myth that kids don't like seafood because they're used to fish sticks who likes a fish stick bro I mean I I don't want a fish fillet uh you know a fillet whatever it's called um what what the lucky thing is that we have here is we're a we're a soup baby we're we're multicultural we're california i i think uh the example of this melting pot and honoring all of our backgrounds all of our stories all of our traditions who doesn't love a good taco i mean you go to ceviche you then you talk about curries now we're talking about vietnamese rice bowls i i'm speaking the language of their grandparents what feels good at home what feels comfortable what are you used to i'm not going in there saying you need to try this dish i ask what do you like what do you feel comfortable with and then we kind of we riff on it we work together i i go into these kitchens and i look at what equipment they have which tells me how fast how much how what's the method of cooking and we adapt and and that's kind of what the game is here is um this sort of custom solution almost where we go into Santa Cruz or San Diego or Lodi i'm I'm at these different places that have different components of cultures and languages and ethnic experiences but guess what it's the white kids who tell me that's not spicy enough I want more jalapeno in my ceviche and I'm like damn because that's me growing on the heat growing up in Berkeley you know um in the 70s and 80s I I heard a lot of languages because of the university uh you know the civil rights freedom of speech cultural revolution was in the air and to me that's what makes this a magical experience is to uplift these stories and these these real vital experiences because I think it was mark twin he said travel is fatal to bigotry and racism so you know we're we're uh I think empowering uh community by by serving food that speaks to everybody I'll be right back okay she'll be right back anyway that's uh that's the connection to um you know to answer your question what did I what have I learned um I'm I'm a sponge you know I'm I grew up working at Chayanice restaurant with Alice Waters in the 80s because my dad sold seafood to the restaurant and she kind of there was a bunch of us little boys you know little ruffians skateboarders and stoners and you know she turned us into gentlemen in a lot of ways and taught us how to eat properly um by by introducing the concept of farm to table you know from her years living in Provence in the south of France and Mediterranean culture you think about it we're on that same latitude with France Italy Spain Portugal all the way across to the Middle East Iran you know Turkey and then you go further east you're talking about Taiwan uh you know these are areas that have the same climate as we do and you find olive trees in Taiwan and you're like well that seems a little out of place that's not Mediterranean but it's actually correct because this weather strip is very similar so uh I think it ties us all together. I think food brings us together. Yes I play this I play this game with my students that I I'm working with sometimes like food is dot dot dot what is food to you and I've heard some crazy stuff and it's exciting so let's play it real quick Dan and Russ.

SPEAKER_02 42:40

Dan first yeah so where's my hat so I mean I grew up in a very hardcore Italian culture so to me food means family. So it brings everything together we have certain dishes that we always make for specific holidays certain you know group gatherings things like that. So to me food is family.

SPEAKER_00 43:03

Yeah well the Italians have an expression and I've I've lived there so I know a tavola non sinvecchia which means at the table one never grows old yep that's why they stay at the table for like three four hours three four hours is very common in Italy that's correct and where it happens yeah what about you Russ?

SPEAKER_03 43:23

I would so mine and mine would be food is life slash energy. Yeah because when you think about food it's what kind of food are we putting on our bodies uh I I went away from years ago I went away from eating heavy lunches because when you eat a heavy lunch what is the immediate impact of your body in the next hour? Nap time you know so finding something that I can eat at lunchtime that's going to energize me. So I kind of went to a grazing lifestyle About 13 years ago and eating eating light. So when I'm you know, in the past, if I'm out working with the guys, you know, and they're eating all of these tacos and they're eating hamburgers or whatever, big sandwiches, and I'm just snacking, I have energy. I have life at one o'clock in the afternoon for those last three hours on the job that I'm just going, going, going, where these guys are like for that first hour dragging. So food is life, food is energy.

SPEAKER_00 44:29

What about you, babe?

SPEAKER_04 44:32

Uh, I I like what you said, Russ, is you know, food is energy, food is medicine. I I I've really been appreciating um for myself over the last many years of of what I put in my body. And it's interesting what you just said about don't have a big meal in the middle of the day, because I've I've been uh increasingly studying the science of Ayurveda. Um it's an Indian, it it comes from India and from the Vedic texts where yoga comes from. Um and Ayurveda is essentially the art, the art and science of living well. Um, but in um in the study of Ayurveda, the we each of us has um a type of constitution that can get out of balance. And so foods are directly associated with helping helping each of us in our own constitution be in balance. And interestingly, when you said don't eat a big meal in the middle of the day, um in the Ayurvedic tradition, it you're you're meant to eat your biggest meal when the sun is highest in the sky because it's about digestive fire and solar fire and heat and energy, like help helps us to move versus in a lot of our cultures, people eat late at night or they have a huge meal at dinner and our bodies have trouble digesting all that stuff. Um, there's also the idea of intermittent fasting, which I'm sure you guys have talked about, but the idea that if we give our bodies a good, like at least 10, 12, sometimes 16 hours, if you're really into it, to not be digesting anything and to give itself a rest. And so anyway, it's it's interesting because we we can learn all these different cultural and scientific nutritional strategies, but in at the end of the day, it sounds like you found something that totally works for you, regardless of whatever, and and not truly, you know, listening to our own bodies of what we put in there and having the patience and the awareness to to listen. Because I I think um, I mean, I'm I'm guilty of this. Like I will sit at my desk and eat my lunch while I'm working. And um, our bodies, our minds, if if we're doing something else while we're eating, our mind doesn't really get that we're eating. So um that's this is another Ayurvedic uh principle is that one thing at a time, slow it down, like take a break, like get the get the food in front of me and smell it and be grateful for all the hands that went into preparing it and and how the sun and the rain, just you know, all like taking that moment of gratitude so that my mind and my body can be like, oh, yeah, gonna, we're about to eat, like, let's get those digestive juices flowing, let's get ready. And then there is actually greater assimilation of the energy, the life force that is in the foods that we have when we when we do that. So um, yeah, just to riff on what you said, you know, to me, food is medicine. Yes, and it's also about how we consume it. If we consume it with um intention, with gratitude, um, I it it helps to get in there better.

SPEAKER_03 48:09

Yeah, and don't get me wrong, there are times that I'm just downright hungry at lunchtime, yeah, and I will eat.

SPEAKER_00 48:20

Yeah, I know. Um, I I I really love this. I think one of the things we're talking about here is it hasn't been spoken for you know in the mainstream very much lately for some reason, but slow food as opposed to fast food, taking your time. And to me, I don't do it often enough, but I really try to teach kids this, and it reminds me use every sense. You know, one of the things that we're struggling against in the in the school cafeterias is number one, they don't even see the food yet and they can smell it, it's gotta smell good. Yes, number two, gotta look good. I'm working a lot with sauces and garnishes, and you know, one of the things kids told me is food is fancy. Yeah, they like fancy food. If you if you serve them something that looks like a dish they might get in a restaurant, and I'm not saying school lunch people can produce restaurant food at scale, it's very difficult. Um, we do what we can, and then all of a sudden we're doing the impossible, but uh gotta look good, gotta smell good. And then I actually close my eyes sometimes and listen, you know, and like the crunch, um, how it hits the tooth, you know, how it feels in your mouth. Really take the time to use all of your senses because then it becomes a more multidimensional experience that I think is profound. Um, food is medicine is absolutely true too. In fact, at the CIA at the Culinary Institute of America in Napa uh last week, they had the uh three-day University of California-wide um experience called Food is Medicine, Food is Health. And all the leaders of all the top California universities are there, sponsored by Stanford School of Sustainability and the Harvard School of Public Health. And we're working in hospitals in the Santa Clara County right now, and we are trying to get in more because guess what? You're in a hospital trying to feel better and recover from something, and they're feeding you crap. Yeah, yeah, you know, prisons, hospitals, and schools get the worst food right now. Why? Because it's at scale, it has to be affordable, it has to be dependably delivered by Cisco or Eramark or any of these big trucks you see run around. They don't have the time and energy to get the best quality food. It's more expensive, it's harder to deal with, you have to know how to cook it properly. And so these are the gaps that we're trying to bridge. Come in there and work, roll up my sleeves, make an easy dish like ceviche or fish tacos or a curry rice bowl, and all of a sudden you're curing sick people and the families that are visiting them and the staff that is curing them and serving them. So food is all of those things.

SPEAKER_03 51:22

Yeah, yeah. Well, I was accidentally uh I was making, I wasn't accidentally cooking fish, but I was cooking fish one day, and I was a knock at my door, and one of my friends came up, and we were yapping away, and all of a sudden it was one of those moments. Oh no, the fish, you know, run back into the kitchen, you know. Well, it had crusted the outer layer of the fish. I gotta tell you, that was probably one of the best fish I've ever done. So now I accidentally crisp that outer layer because that crutch that you talk about, yeah. Oh, you know, and lingod, we don't we haven't talked about ling cod. Love me some lingod, it doesn't smell, but the flavor is just and it doesn't take much, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:04

You know, well, that's that's part of the problem, Russ, is that every fish species is different, they perform differently, they cook better in certain ways. It takes a little bit of time to figure that out, and don't overcook your halibut, bro. You don't want to be serving that dry halibut, you know, and and yet on the other hand, black cod or sable fish as it's known, gets buttery and caramelizes and gets juicier the longer you cook it sometimes. So, you know, it takes a little bit of experience.

SPEAKER_04 52:36

Thank goodness that we have this thing called the internet where you can look this stuff up or in our house, Dan.

SPEAKER_00 52:44

We we get thanks to real good fish and her fishing buddies, we eat a lot of fish, yeah, and um we get a chance to experiment and get better at it, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 52:53

Yeah, and he he does not um do anything with recipes, he just plays with stuff, and then he asks me, like, Well, what do you think about this? How should we do this Misa Black Cod? And I'm thinking this, this, and I'm like, Well, should we look at a recipe first, maybe before we and he so he like feels his way, and then I like to look at a recipe and then kind of do you know, do it my way. So we we have the we have uh fun adventures in the kitchen a lot.

SPEAKER_03 53:20

Yeah, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 53:22

Well, I mean, it's born out of necessity. I'm used to pulling something in and camping and you know, having a limited amount of of tools and spices or whatever, not anymore. My my traveling kitchen is pretty dialed in, it's it's sweet now, but I bet it is you do what you can with what you have, and then Saint Francis of Assisi said this um, do what you can, do what needs to be done, and then all of a sudden you're doing the impossible, and that's what we're trying to do. We're trying to inject the last wild protein. Think about that. The last wild protein on the menu, it's it's most schools, the last wild food, period, is seafood, is is our fish. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you're not out there hunting down a uh wayward traveling cow. You know, they're they're not. I mean, we do get some some pigs wild, maybe, but uh it's it's a unique experience and a story that we hope the the new Department of Seafood is gonna tell this story in our favor and you know really um share experiences that get people understanding our local bounty. This is what we have right here.

SPEAKER_03 54:37

Well, as you have quoted the great Saint Francis of Assisi, I'm gonna quote the great comedian Bill Burr. And uh, you know, he talks about how we got to do away with the uh the internet, we just waste so much time and we're just scrolling. And he said, you know, one night I wasted six hours trying to figure out how to trap a beaver. Oh man. Anyway, I know Dan's got one last question for you.

SPEAKER_02 55:13

Yeah, so this one's for the both of you, actually. So we finish up every show pretty much with a quote or a saying that we like to ask our guests what it means to them. And that saying or that quote is that wellness is not about perfection, it's about progress. What would you say that quote means to both of you?

SPEAKER_00 55:32

I'm gonna have to get my hat on. Stop twinning. You want to go first?

SPEAKER_04 55:41

Go ahead. Uh if you have something.

SPEAKER_00 55:44

Yeah, I mean, it relates to that to that St. Francis of Assisi quote. Gotta start somewhere. Just get amongst it, as the Australians would say. Just get in there. There's no wrong move. Get started. Yeah. That's right.

SPEAKER_04 56:03

Yeah. Um, yeah, I would say that with each new day, there's a new chance. We uh many of us struggle with various forms of you know, habitual patterns, or maybe even a little addiction addictive, whether it's food or that glass of wine at night, or not drinking enough water, or um, there are little there are little things that that we can eat, put into our day. Like I um I always drink a glass of warm lemon water in the morning. And now he does too, because he lives with me and that's what happens. But um I just like to, you know, it's not it's not perfection. And the I think the worst thing we can do is go through our day and not, you know, do the healthy thing that we said we were gonna do and then beat ourselves up for it. Um, so yeah, I would say just every day is a new day to make healthier choices. And um uh to use like a sailing analogy, if if a boat is trying to sail uh across the Pacific and hit Hawaii, if just one degree of change changes that entire trajectory. So just one little thing, one little change each day changes a person's life um towards health. So love it.

SPEAKER_03 57:34

Amen. Very well said, very well said. Lemon water with honey in here. There you go.

SPEAKER_00 57:41

Nice.

SPEAKER_03 57:41

So yeah, love that. Love that. You know, I I gotta say in closing here, and and Dan will wrap it up, but uh, this has been a very, very good conversation because we haven't in the last almost year and a half that since we started this podcast, we haven't had anything uh on a subject matter like this, and with two professionals that are in the same industry like yourselves. So uh I want to say thank you uh from the bottom of my heart for coming on today and sharing uh you know about the importance of eating healthy, eating right, eating fish, trying different ways, cooking it different ways, tying different ingredients to it, because fish is fish is fun. And um, and it is it is delicious, delicious food. So thank you both for coming on today and sharing your heart. Yeah, thanks for sharing your passion.

SPEAKER_04 58:33

Yeah, and if you if you want to learn more what we do, uh we're at MB Fish Trust. That's our our handle. Perfect. And if you want to order fish from Real Good Fish, you can look up Real Good Fish.

SPEAKER_03 58:45

Dan the man.

SPEAKER_00 58:47

Thanks for calling me professional.

SPEAKER_03 58:49

Absolutely, man. It's been a while. Well, wait, turn your hat back around.

SPEAKER_02 58:54

It looks like thank you both so much for being on today. This was super informational. I hope people got a lot out of this. I'm sure they did. Thank you again, both of you. Please check us out at Dual Coast Podcast on all our social media handles. Check us out on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music. Please check out the Dual Coast store on our website with all our merchandise. We'll see everybody next week. Thank you both so much.

SPEAKER_00 59:22

We'll see you Saturday in Santa Cruz for the summit. SC.

SPEAKER_02 59:28

Let's go. 4 30. Thank you again so much for listening. We'll see everybody next week. Bye, you guys.

SPEAKER_01 59:33

Bye. Bye.