Why You Still Feel Misunderstood (Even When You’re Listening) | Christine Miles | Becoming Series

What if the biggest communication problem in your life isn’t what people are saying… 
but what you think it means?

In this episode, I’m joined by Christine Miles, a pioneer in listening intelligence, to unpack why smart, caring people still miss each other—and how that one miss can quietly turn into conflict, distance, and disconnection.

We talk about the “listening gap”—the space between what’s said and what’s actually understood—and why it shows up everywhere:
in relationships, leadership, emails, and everyday conversations.

Christine breaks down why listening isn’t just about your ears—it’s about your brain.
Your memories, your stories, and your patterns are shaping what you hear… often without you realizing it.

This conversation goes deeper than communication tips.
It’s about awareness in the moment.

Because if you can catch what’s happening underneath…
you can choose differently.

Inside this episode:
• Why we react to meaning, not words 
• The simple shift from “I understand” to “Let me see if I get you…” 
• How interruption can actually help—when it’s done to understand 
• A powerful way to see your own listening patterns in real time 

If you want better relationships, stronger communication, and fewer misunderstandings—this is for you.

You pause. 
You listen. 
You choose. 
You build momentum.

Transcript

The Listening Problem You Miss

SPEAKER_00 0:00

What if the biggest communication problem in your life isn't what people are saying, but what you think you're hearing? This is the Delay the Binge podcast, where we learn how to pause in the moments that matter most. So you can choose differently, build momentum, and finish stronger. I'm your host, Pam Dwyer, and today I'm joined by Christine Miles. Christine is a pioneer in what she calls listening intelligence and the creator of the listening path, a framework that helps people uncover what's actually underneath the conversation. Not just what's said, but what's meant. She's also the author of What Is It Costing You Not to Listen? And when she was on the show before, it was one of those conversations that really shifts how you see communication. Since then, her work has expanded even further into emotional intelligence, leadership, and helping people move from reacting to actually understanding. So bringing her back for this becoming series felt like the perfect next step. Christine, I'm so glad you're here. Welcome back. Thanks for having me. It's good to be here. Christine, I'd love to start here. What have you been most focused on lately? And what's been pulling your attention or even stretching you in a new way?

A TED Talk On Simplicity

SPEAKER_01 1:23

Wow, it's interesting timing. I I just did my first TED talk um a week and a half ago. So yeah, uh, so what's the Einstein phrase? The that if you can't say something simply, you probably don't understand it well enough. And even as many years as I've been in this field, and as long as I've been doing this, and there's always more room for simplifying, understanding, owning the material. And, you know, that really was what that process, it was a process leading up to that. Uh, and it was not easy because you're so close, as we all are, I was very close to the content, and everything feels important, but when you're like, nope, I'd never get it to 10 minutes, then you go, what's what really matters? So that's what I've been that's what I was focused on for for the last few months. And it's amazing when you put that work in how the moment feels. It just the moment feels so special because you it just feels so right. So it was really kind of a it was quite a culmination of both years of work and months of work kind of combined.

SPEAKER_00 2:29

Man, congratulations on the TED Talk. I can't wait to see it. I want to, I want to watch it.

SPEAKER_01 2:34

Thank you. Yes, it'll be out so it'll be out in a few weeks. So I'm excited about that. Yeah. And also, that experience life. Was it surreal? A little bit. I mean, it's interesting. It it it's such, you know, there's it's a privilege that to to even be selected. And I think you know, there's lots of people that have this opportunity and make the most of it. And it's just great to be surrounded with other people that have very unique perspectives and something, an idea we're sharing, because there's a a cohort with each, with each uh, with with each event that happens. So that was really special. But I think I like I said, I think for me it's it's it's all about just refining to the moment where it makes the most sense to the masses and it just matches where I am in terms of wanting to get the scale to serve more people so that more people can learn this vital skill and it not feel complicated and it feel as simple as possible and as attainable as possible. So so that moment felt really special.

SPEAKER_00 3:34

I'm sure. I'm sure. You know, let's I want to stay here for just a moment and just absorb this with you because your work hasn't stayed in one lane, I noticed. When you when you look at where you are now, what what feels like it's expanding or shifting in your thinking, or is it the same as it was when you first started?

SPEAKER_01 3:58

Well, I think it's evolving. I don't think it's really changing. Uh yeah, I've been doing this work in some form for most of my career, but I think I think what's getting better and better is just putting language around what it is that how to do this. So again, that it's simple for other people to do it. But a lot of people have looked at me over the years and said, you know, this is you, you weren't born this way, and you know, so you're intuitive, blah, blah, blah. And I can't deny that I'm intuitive, but I don't know which came first, the chicken or the egg. And what I realized is that what I do looks like a magic trick, like somebody who's an Olympic athlete who's been practicing a sport or a, or a, you know, I thought of the TEDx as a little bit like gymnasts. They have this routine that they have to do, and they want to perfect it in the moment. Uh, and that's what a TEDx felt like versus giving a keynote, which is there's more flexibility, there's more time, there's more, you can use the moments differently. This was more like a, you know, this was it's so honed and tight because of the the moment that you have to share your idea or spreading, then I thought the pressure of that moment is really what's the impact, is that you don't want to, you want to, you want to land, you want to stick the landing. So, but the the the what I what it is is that when you unpack how to do it, which is what I've been doing for other people, is like this isn't a magic trip, this is something anybody can do. I just happen to be an elliptic athlete at it, and that's why it looks like magic. That's why it looks like it's you know not something that people understand how to do. So that's really how things have evolved because, like you said in my intro, listening helps you with your emotional intelligence, it helps you as a parent, it helps you in your relationships, it helps you drive sales. There's so many things it touches because it's to me the oxygen in the relationship, whether that's a business or a personal relationship. And so you want to make sure there's plenty of that supply to keep the organism healthy. And that's what listening is, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:04

Wow, I love that the oxygen. So I want to share something I noticed from our first conversation and just on my research on your work and enjoying your work. And it's less about the conversation itself. It's it's more about what you have chosen to carry, right? There's a way you approach this work that feels uh very intentional. Like you didn't you didn't just develop an idea. You picked something up off the ground and you decided this matters enough to keep going with it. And not everyone does that.

The Legacy Of Not Feeling Heard

SPEAKER_00 6:44

So I'm really curious, what is it about this message about helping people see what's underneath that make them decide I'm going to carry this forward?

SPEAKER_01 6:55

Well, I think it's it's not just one thing. I think, you know, I I consider myself a little bit of a pattern disruptor and breaker in terms of, you know, as I'm sure you're doing the same thing, right? You're you're you're disrupting how people think about a lot of things and just this idea of delaying the binge and what that means. And that could, whatever that binge is, it doesn't have to be food, right? So um, so you know, there was a lot of my mom, just to take people back, suffered a lot of sadness from losing her mom as a as a young person. Like my grandmother was was um died three months after she gave birth to my mom. And so that's kind of where the story, as I knew it, began in terms of the legacy of what it meant not to feel seen, heard, and understood. Because my mom felt very unseen throughout her life because she had this loss that, from her perspective, other people didn't relate to, and people struggled to understand it on the depth that she felt it. And so that carried generationally through. That had an impact on me positively and certainly with my own, you know, stuff that I have to unpack. And I think that that legacy is pervasive in a lot of families and in a lot of areas. And I think because we are not taught to listen, we're just missing so much. And the pain that people feel from not feeling seen, heard, and understood is fixable. But we're not, we're not even tackling the problem because it's a problem that most people don't see. So that's the pattern disruptor. I guess in my own family that matters. But what if I hadn't learned that? How would I have survived and thrived in other ways? And that's what I think about in terms of kids who aren't, you know, I wasn't the smartest in the room, still not, but I'm so I mean, I'm smart enough. But if I hadn't had the ability to listen, especially with some of the challenges learning-wise I faced, how would I have navigated? And I think about those kinds of things and the importance of finally closing the skill gap. So that combined with my stubbornness, I guess, uh helps me want to persist. I think, you know, I think I've been I've really identified an important gap uh in the market isn't in in the world, and that's the gap that I I really want to break that pattern.

SPEAKER_00 9:16

Right. And I think uh about this a lot, even with my message, you know, it's almost like you're being called to the message. Like the message is is dri the driving force. Yeah. You know, because people there's so many people benefiting from your work right now. And and they don't always see the journey behind it, you know, the becoming isn't always a smooth road.

SPEAKER_01 9:40

Oh no, no, no, no, sure.

SPEAKER_00 9:43

I'm sure there are moments where you're figuring it out in real time, you know. So how did you how did you begin to trust your message enough to not just live it, but build something, you know, around it?

SPEAKER_01 9:59

Well, it's interesting just to go back. So, so way back, because when you reminded me of something, so I was a I was a college athlete, and um, and I was I was a division three college athlete. I didn't go to Division I, even though I played at a very high level. And I did exceptionally well athletically in college and then beyond. But people would say to me sometimes, well, you know, you always get or you will, you know, you achieve this, and they looked at the result, and uh, but I had tape on my field hockey stick, um, drippling in and out of cones in August and going to camps. And because I wasn't, again, not the best athlete naturally. I was really willed myself to a level that I wasn't naturally gifted to just to get there. And if you had gifts and you have the work ethic that I had, that combination is really what helps you overachieve. But so I just think about most people don't see it behind the we don't see the story behind how somebody got there a lot of the time. And so becoming is really, and it's really mirrors the work that I do, which is we look at what's on the surface, but we miss the story that's underneath. And so most people don't achieve an overnight success. We see the last part of that overnight success and we think it was easy. When in fact, sacrifice, hard work, a lot of a lot of hard days are what's behind it, and and I'm a perfect example of that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:25

Yes, you are. You so are. Were there moments that you doubted it out there on a on a scaling it? Did you were there moments where you were thinking, maybe this is just what I'm feeling and thinking? Because I find myself doing that.

SPEAKER_01 11:40

Yeah, well, it if you're not, I mean, I still have those feelings because you get to one level and you get then you get to another level, and then you're trying to get to the next level and um to to fulfill the mission. It's it's it's like self-awareness. It's really not quite ever done. It's like, you know, you gotta keep going. Most things that are worthwhile in life are managed, not cured, right? Like eating, like you know, I I you have to manage it. You don't cure it, like being organized, you have to manage it, or it doesn't, you know, we're being in shape. So it's all that's the that's the hard part, isn't it? But I remember this was I'm going back to 2014, and I remember that because it was right, you know, the time my mom passed away. And I was at a company, a large financial tech company, and I was sitting with their top-tier C-suite couple people. And um, the founder of this company, I mean, it's was a it's a multi-million billion dollar company, so it's you know, huge company at this point. But the founder was sitting in Central Park, they told me this story, seven years into her work, pulling her tech gear, you know, on a wheeled suitcase, and realizing that if she didn't make a sale, she was done. And that was the sale that that day after she sat in Central Park ready to fold up everything, that she made a deal that allowed her to keep going that became the success that the company was. And I thought that's such a great metaphor for we're all sitting in Central Park at some point going, What am I doing? Can I make it? Do I have enough to get to the next point? Because it's a heavy, heavy lift as an entrepreneur. And uh so I remind myself of that because it's kind of like that story of um you're in a tunnel and they say, you know, you don't the problem is in a tunnel, sometimes you don't know if you're a mile from the light or when you're chipping away or an inch. And so do I turn around or do I keep going? Right. It's the challenge.

SPEAKER_00 13:41

Yeah. Right. And there's a lot of growth with the whole process of of building it and getting it out there.

Turning Pain Into A Movement

SPEAKER_00 13:49

I know I have evolved, and I want to ask you something a little bigger because your message doesn't feel like just a f like a framework, right? The structure they keep drilling into my head saying that I need structure or framework. It feels more like a a movement. You know, what does a what does a movement mean to you and the the movement you're creating? Did you feel called to it?

SPEAKER_01 14:18

Well, I I think, yeah, as we so both from my backstory with my family of origin, but I was injured in an auto accident when I was 28. And then my life, I had, I had I lived a version of my mom's story. I looked fine on the surface most of the time, but I had major problems and three spinal surgeries. And that that moment and that period of time when I realized I had the invisible pain my mother suffered from. And the universe had just had more to teach me. That's part of the what I realized. Uh and it it it tells you, you know, you're gonna learn this. And and I that's part of the pattern breaker. So over the course since my 30s, I've been on a course that of figuring this out. And with each gate, you know, one I figured out I had my own experience, and I started working in organizations, and I realized the help I was giving most of the time was around misunderstandings. And it wasn't what people said, it's what they didn't hear or understand. So I'm like, well, that's a problem, but why is that a problem? Well, that's a problem because we don't have a common language for how to understand. We we don't have a common language for how to listen. So with each kind of evolution, like you described, of becoming, it's like, oh, another piece of the puzzle fits together. So the more that I've been able to sort out the puzzle pieces, the more I've been clear that I can make the impact. And so that's the movement part. And the solution is the easy part now. How to do this, it's mechanized, it's it's scalable, it's it if people are willing. That that's it is important because you need the how. But now it's a matter of getting people to understand how this can benefit them, not just how they do it.

SPEAKER_00 16:01

And that's what I love about what you're doing so much is that you know, there's a lot of talk about mindset, all kinds of things, about the pause. Listening, not so much. I think that is very unique. But life experiences, the things that are happening to us in life is what fuels the importance of teaching the skill that you've discovered of listening. And it matters to you. I know that that does, it's obvious.

Why The Brain Distorts Meaning

SPEAKER_00 16:29

And what I c hear in all of it is that we're not just reacting to what people say, we're reacting to what uh we think it means. And I think that happens really fast in a conversation.

SPEAKER_01 16:46

Yeah, yeah. So our brains are so much the we think about listening in terms of ears. Like the number of times people have said you have two ears, one mouth, use them in proportion. Love the theory, love the the message and the meaning behind that, which is you use them in proportion. However, the ears aren't the vehicle for sound. That has nothing to do with what we the actual understanding piece of it. It's just the hearing piece of it. The brain is what's interfering with the understanding. And that's because we have our own thoughts, our own feelings, our own impulses, our own memories, our own stories that are living in our subconscious brain, and that's why we're responding, reacting, whether that's listening to ourselves or listening to somebody else. And so the work is around the brain, not the ears. And that's what the tools do is to settle the brain down. And because that's that's why we're missing things, that's why we're misinterpreting things. There's so and that's why we need to figure out how to do this so we can solve the right problems and innovate and and build our communities differently so that we can get things done together.

SPEAKER_00 18:00

Where do you see people miss that them? It's just in conversation or where do you see it?

SPEAKER_01 18:05

Email, social media conversations, you name it. Everywhere. I mean, everywhere. Misunderstandings are everywhere. I mean, and that's because we because we're hearing something, hearing the sounds. Think about your partner, your spouse, they say something and you feel that because you have a story you're telling yourself about what that means or what that reminds you of. Sometimes you're aware of it, sometimes you aren't. So we tend to go with back with more of the same rather than to lean in to ask, tell me more, or seek to understand. It's so counterintuitive to lean towards it rather than away from it. Yeah. Right. I had a conversation with somebody yesterday where they promised me something if it was somebody I'm working with, and and they had told me they were gonna send me a few things. And I I got on the call and I said, I'm I'm disappointed because I haven't gotten what and and I know this person is very good at what they do and very heartfelt. And but the answer was to just provide that for me right away. That's part of the solution, but part of the the conversation is really, wait a second, I just want you to understand how I'm feeling, why I'm feeling that way, and let's take care of the relationship, not just hand me what I asked for, because that that's the you know, because that's what makes you feel better. What'll make me feel better is if we do both, you know, because I want to take care of the relationship and not just the not just the task. But that's hard for people because conflict is tough, um, and hurting people's feelings is a hard thing to live with. But if but if we go, you know what, why don't you tell me more instead of let me fix this, that's the bridge.

SPEAKER_00 19:51

Right. Instead of reacting. I've heard you talk a lot about that, about being proactive. It's it literally is being proactive to listen. To understand and to ask more, you know, ask more crisp questions.

SPEAKER_01 20:04

Yeah, to seek to understand, to go what's beyond what's the surface. Yeah, because what's on the surface is very rarely what the whole issue is. Just like my physical pain on the surface, I looked fine. My body inside was very broken and I was in tremendous pain. And that's some version of our stories on most days. We all have stuff going on beneath the surface. I learned this as a home-based family therapist when I started my career at 22. Knocking on people's doors, I'd walk up to you know the door and I'd hear a lot of things, not always pleasant. But as soon as that knock came, then we put the persona on. Yeah. So we have the persona, that's just human nature. We need to do that. We can't wear all the chaos or all the problems on our sleeves. But it's you, some of it's always there. We just don't know it. We just don't ask about it or see it or yeah. And that's in a business conversation versus and a personal conversation. That's in a classroom, that's everywhere.

SPEAKER_00 21:03

If if you're not if if we're not careful, we can be so disappointed in people that we forget how to connect, you know, and I think there's a lot of stuff going on in the world right now. And if if we all just worked on our listening skills, you know, and then get a little curious about why it makes you feel the way you're feeling. I mean, the more I look into the neuroscience of the brain, I'm just fascinated by it.

SPEAKER_01 21:32

It's amazing. And what we know now that we didn't know 25 years ago is staggering. Staggering.

SPEAKER_00 21:38

Yes, yes, and it helps me in every single relationship, whether it be business or personal.

SPEAKER_01 21:45

Yeah. Just to know. Attachment theory and all the things that all the ways that we uh we what we understand now versus what we understood 20 years ago. It's because of of what they can study live versus. you know, in in postmortem, as they say. Exactly. Yeah. So it is. It's um so I think we serve each other and ourselves better when we seek to understand. And that's the that's what what I mean when I say listen. I don't mean agree. I don't mean do whatever that person I it listen to understand means I'm gonna make sure I understand you before I give you an answer, before I tell you what I think. I'm gonna I'm gonna give you that gift and that's gonna level set everything. So that means we get the story and it means we confirm that we got the story. We communicate what we understand. And that's how what we close what I call the listening gap the gap between what is said and what is understood.

SPEAKER_00 22:47

That's the problem that that I'm seeking to solve. The listening gap is very much like the pause. If we just take a moment to think before we act or speak it would save a lot of trouble, I think.

SPEAKER_01 23:01

Yeah. Yeah. And that and and you know I was out with them to dinner with a friend last night who's going through some some tough things in her marriage. And uh the same thing like how do we I mean we all have to listen to ourselves first. That's part of that pause. So what are you know rather than just reacting or you know and how do we get that pause sometimes we need help to do that right that's part of pausing is ask for help reach out because we're clouded by our own stories too. But um but learning to listen to yourself is a way to pause.

Two Habits That Close The Gap

SPEAKER_00 23:36

Definitely definitely for someone listening right now who's realizing I do that I assume I fill in the gaps what's a small way they can start catching it in real time? Like how can they what's the first step for them to start working on that skill?

SPEAKER_01 23:53

Yeah or learning it first of all I just want to say it's nobody's fault because the brain is a powerful it's powerful. So you just you know we talk neuroscience so this is like it's just autopilot. So it the the blame game doesn't help but the best thing you do is realize it's a problem we all have it's just human nature. So if you're if you're willing to solve that problem you're gonna be so far ahead. So step one is maybe I think I'm a better listener than I actually am and maybe I can start to look at or ask people how do you think I listen to you whether that's your id, your spouse, your parent, a friend, getting some feedback really will help you understand who you need to take better care of. And that can in and of itself can really be amazingly helpful in your life. So that's step one. If you're a leader in a business you ask your employees they may not they may not tell you the truth right away because you're the boss but I guarantee asking that question will open a door that they eventually other things will happen. So first identify a problem because you can't fix a problem you don't know you have. And then the second and this is really I think the biggest miss in listening and it's kind of in the middle of how we solve the problem but I but I think it'll make sense to people is that the real gap is we don't communicate what we understand. Most people say I understand. And that doesn't really help much. So if you start saying let me see if I get you and start summarizing what you understand to the person back doesn't mean you get it right. That is a game changer. People have assigned me to be one of the smartest people in the room more times than I can count simply because I do that because it's such a rare thing that happens so infrequently.

SPEAKER_00 25:52

I agree and you know what I think the best practice in the world is doing a podcast. Oh yeah sure I have to really listen I I have to really work on my listening skills. Yeah because it's important just to to feel what the other person is speaking on and and also to lift them up question right yeah yeah and just to lift you up because you're the guest and this is about you and this is about lifting your message up to the world and it's very important to me and so I've I've just I've worked very hard at trying to listen well. Because I don't think I always did before I think I talked over people.

SPEAKER_01 26:34

Well which is rude well I've been a I'm gonna say that it's actually okay to interrupt which I know people are like what um but it's why you interrupt it's and how you interrupt and so this is a more advanced skill and I wouldn't start with this but if you interrupt somebody to understand that's different than interrupt interrupting to talk. And so that's the that's the game changer. Then you're going wait a minute wait a minute let me see if I get you and now I'm interrupting to share what I about you rather than talk about me.

SPEAKER_00 27:08

That's a very different way to interrupt yes and it's I never thought of it being like a different type of interruption I never thought about that.

SPEAKER_01 27:16

Yeah yeah because sometimes having a podcast myself a guest can go way off into the woods I see the woods behind you for the people that are listening. And that's not always helpful because people are terrible by and large storytellers. We're as much as much experience as we have at talking and speaking and how much education we get around it, people don't tell a narrative in a super helpful way most of the time. And so we they we confuse the listener from the start. So if you let somebody just meander off and go everywhere you're gonna be bored and confused your listeners are going to be bored and confused. So part of it is being a really good guide in the conversation and interrupting is a pretty essential skill uh with your kids with your family with your in meetings it's just how you do it we have it so we have it wrong. It's the timing right it's the how it's it's am I interrupting to tell you what I think or to respond or react versus interrupting to understand.

SPEAKER_00 28:23

Got you I got you wow that's I our first conversation we had I learned so much and now I'm learning more on but we'll just have to keep going on having more and more conversations for sure.

Interrupting To Understand

SPEAKER_00 28:37

Now this is part of our becoming series as I shared with you I I'd love to ask you this not not from the beginning of your story but from the evolution of it. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 28:51

Who have who have you become as your message has grown who have I become while how has it changed you or has it yeah no you're evolving with with well I hope so I I mean I hope so both with age and with understanding you know I think um I think for me it's while we educate people how to do this it's um and that's important it's more about the moments of what it means to people when they start to redefine it and how it impacts their relationship. So I've realized that for me it's while I've always experienced that I'm I'm just taking that in in a different way and allowing that to be part of what I feel and experience uh because it's really profound to hear how people have moments that change their relationships and it's just and and I like that I'm making that difference owning that is like I'm helping people have that difference in their lives and it's very very special and it's a privilege. It's such a privilege like it's such a privilege to witness that and to be part of that you know I was doing a keynote a couple weeks ago and just some of the comments and it's just like wow what what a privilege you know it's a responsibility too it's a responsibility um it reminds me of my days as an athlete and as and and when I became a leader that you know yeah it's it's important you know but it's a responsibility so I just take that very seriously and um but it's a gift but it's a gift. Yeah it's a gift I give and hopefully I'm I'm getting that gift back.

SPEAKER_00 30:36

That is beautiful. I love that so much. And it's kind of it reminds me of kindness right because we always think we should be kind to others for them for others. But when we are kind and we're giving to others it is so it it literally heals your soul. I mean it's it does a lot for you as a person that's becoming and I think that it's important and you know you feel that from your message so well you know I the joke is you know nobody studies psychology well I shouldn't generalize.

SPEAKER_01 31:09

I'll speak to myself but many of us or some of us who go into the field of psychology do so to heal ourselves. We we help others to fix our own childhood dysfunction. And I think that's the other thing that's evolved is that like that's what the work's about it's my own journey of healing as well that you know my mom didn't have the experience that she needed to heal in a way uh and that the healing that I get to do for myself through helping others is really it's it's not a selfless act. This is not selfless. It's there's there's a lot that I get back as a result. But I I was I was listening to something last night on abundance and if you having an abundance mindset means I don't need that. You could I don't I have plenty is like I have plenty you take it and the more you know you take it the more you actually get it's kind of so again counterintuitive to the way we think we want to hold on to what we have but the more we give it away often is when we really find the most abundance and things.

SPEAKER_00 32:14

I agree I agree wholeheartedly you know before we wrap up today I want to make sure we let people know how they can connect with you and learn more about your work and your amazing podcast.

Becoming Through Healing And Giving

SPEAKER_01 32:28

Yeah they can find me at uh Christine miles listens so I do a lot of speaking uh that's also where they'll find the podcast if they want to listen uh you know on Spotify and in the other places as well um or they can find us at the listening path thelisteningpath dot com which is where we have programs for classrooms from elementary classrooms to high school to businesses. My my mission is to globalize listening education make it a privilege not a right or pardon me a right not a privilege that this is something that should just be part of our core standards. So let's start with elementary school let's make people for the future good at this skill but let's catch those up that haven't gotten it when they were younger.

SPEAKER_00 33:11

Right. I think I've heard you say it numerous times um on some of your videos you know which which what age would you rather learn about listening a young age or at 50?

SPEAKER_01 33:22

Yeah like skiing like nobody's was picked up skiing at 40 and went you know what I'm glad I waited because now it's a piece of cake. Why not go when you're low to the ground and you're fearless and you're not afraid of falling and you don't have bad habits. So it's so much easier I mean having I've seen this in motion watching second and fourth graders third graders I had a I had a class of third graders about a month ago on a Zoom call telling me one by one what this did for them and how it helped them the program to learn to listen. And it's like it's their sponges it's so so easy. They don't have to overcome so many obstacles. Yeah they don't have to undo anything right that's right that's right yeah I had a golf I I learned golf in my in my 40s after my accident and I had the golf pro. I said I don't go to the driving range in practice because of mine I have a cervical injury and I I couldn't swing that many swings back in the day. And I said I don't go the driving range and he said look if you go the driving range and do 50 swings wrong you gotta do a hundred swings right to set it back to neutral. And so I'm like that makes a lot of sense so if the sooner we learn this well we're just gonna it won't solve everything but it certainly will dynamically I believe change some real fundamental ways we approach each other.

SPEAKER_00 34:43

And we'll just all keep watching you and learning from you. It's it's incredible.

Teaching Listening Early Plus Resources

SPEAKER_00 34:48

Let me just let me just share what stands out to me. We think becoming is about changing who we are but what you've shown us is that sometimes it's about slowing down enough to actually see what's been there all along and and when we stop reacting to the meaning we create um we start understanding what's really underneath everything shifts. Everything shifts so thank you for that I thank you for that.

SPEAKER_01 35:21

And thank you for coming back and sharing this with us my pleasure my my pleasure I love love what you're doing. It just I mean our stories I mean very different kinds of trauma and background like um you know somebody always has it worse is what I always say you know but I always say like you can turn your trauma into uh some some really meaningful shit if you want to like it doesn't I always thought I was one of few.

SPEAKER_00 35:46

I always thought I was one of few that grew up like that but oh my gosh Christina there's I am one of many.

SPEAKER_01 35:52

Well we all have something may I'm gonna be I'm gonna be graphic here but I we're all fucked up. It's just do we know it or not? I mean whatever that scale is and that continuum is like I again I was talking to somebody last night I'm like she goes I don't want to mess up my kids I go well you're it's inevitable. Like if it's they're gonna have their version of whatever that looks like your your goal isn't you can't protect them from everything. You just want to give them a running start right because so I'm not advocating don't don't care but like it's just inevitable. So but I do I'm you know I'm people say about my accident well you I'm sure you wish it would didn't happen and I'm like absolutely and I don't know what my life would look like if it hadn't I don't know if it would be better or if certain aspects would seemingly be better but I wouldn't be here and that I wouldn't want to trade.

unknown 36:47

Right.

SPEAKER_00 36:47

You wouldn't be here advocating for for listening as a skill. Maybe not not to this extent.

SPEAKER_01 36:53

Right right and it it just drives you and it's because you're using that as fuel turning pain into purpose struggles into stepping stones all that though whatever that looks like look so many people do a much better job day to day helping their neighbor in their communities that we all have some way that we can make a difference in somebody's world and that doesn't have to be at the kind of scale that I'm talking about. Like I said I fall short in other areas I just I think it's so important that we all just realize whatever our special talent is or whatever pattern we can break, that's good that's also enough.

SPEAKER_00 37:36

It's just enough yes it is and and life is unfair and it's hard and we just use the hell out of all that hard stuff and move forward with it and use it. Use it like crazy you know and get curious figure out okay why am I behaving like this you know what's where is this pain coming from you see it and name it. It's hard work.

SPEAKER_01 38:01

It's hard work.

Final Reflection And Weekly Challenge

SPEAKER_00 38:02

But it's worth it yes it is so if this conversation resonated with you pay attention to your next moment not just what's said but listening for what's underneath it. You pause you listen you choose you build momentum take care and I will see you all next week. Thanks Christy thank you