Following Your Gut Podcast #23, Unlocking the Power of Movement

In this enlightening episode of the “Following Your Gut” podcast, hosted by Roland Pankewich, Trevor Hash of Strength Side joins the conversation to explore the nuanced relationship between fitness and health. Roland and Trevor dive into a critical discussion about why many fitness programs fail, emphasizing the pitfalls of equating fitness success with punishment and ego-driven goals. Through engaging anecdotes and insightful dialogue, Trevor shares his journey towards redefining fitness as a tool for overall health, arguing for movement practices that prioritize wellness over relentless performance-driven exercises.

Throughout the episode, Trevor highlights the importance of rethinking traditional Western fitness norms, advocating for more accessible, enjoyable, and less intimidating forms of exercise. As Roland and Trevor dismantle the high-intensity, overstimulating gym culture, they introduce listeners to alternative strategies like walking, simple at-home exercises, and mindful movement practices. Trevor’s refreshing perspective encourages audiences to embrace consistency and curiosity in movement, emphasizing holistic wellness, personal fulfillment, and the importance of downregulation in achieving long-term health and happiness.

Trevor Hash is a movement coach and co-founder of the popular YouTube channel Strength Side, which has amassed over 2 million subscribers. With over 12 years of experience in fitness and movement, Trevor, along with his brother Josh, transitioned from strength training to a holistic approach that emphasizes general health, movement, and overall wellness. Trevor specializes in guiding individuals to rediscover joy in movement, focusing on increased range of motion, flexibility, and the development of healthier movement patterns.

Key Takeaways:

Redefine Fitness and Health Goals: Fitness should be a journey towards wellness, not punishment or performance metrics. View fitness as a realistic tool for improving quality of life.

Simplify Exercise Routines: Basic movements like walking, stretching, and bodyweight exercises at home can be more beneficial than complex gym routines.

 Embrace Consistency Over Intensity: Consistent, moderate movement is more sustainable and healthier than intense, sporadic workouts.

Prioritize Mental and Emotional Health: Exercise not only builds physical strength but also supports mental well-being by reducing stress and increasing overall life satisfaction.

Downregulation and Mindful Movement: Practicing movement with awareness and downregulating stress enables better health outcomes and skill acquisition.

“The microbiome of our digestive tract is like the soil of our body." 

Transcript

0:00:02 Roland Pankewich: Welcome back to the following your gut podcast, where health science meets clinical wisdom. Today. I’m your host, Roland, as always. And I’m really excited about this one, guys, because we do get into the weeds with a lot of biochemical stuff. Very much topic focused on health as it relates to addressing a health issue specifically. But health and fitness are interchangeable nowadays. You know, you can’t search one without the other.

0:00:29 Roland Pankewich: And so many people are wanting to get into the fitness craze, and I don’t think half of them have any idea where to start. I mean, it’s not too far after the new year, and most people’s new Year’s resolutions have probably gone out the window with their monthly gym membership. So today I have the absolute pleasure of talking to an incredibly esteemed colleague, a good friend. He’s actually my coach as well when it comes to movement. And I have Trevor Hash of Strengthside. Trevor, it is so awesome to finally get you on the podcast, man. Thank you for being here.

0:01:00 Trevor Hash: Yeah, yeah, thank you. Well, we’ve been trying to do this for a while, so we’re getting it done.

0:01:05 Roland Pankewich: Things come to those who wait, as they say, or we’re just really busy and scheduling is the challenge. Well, both are true.

0:01:13 Trevor Hash: Yeah. Yeah.

0:01:15 Roland Pankewich: So normally in. In these conversations, we’re talking about something more specific as it relates to health, but the conversation you and I had that inspired this podcast was really cool because it was kind of like why your fitness program isn’t working. And I stopped and thought about that for a second. I’m like, well, yeah, that makes so much sense because we’re inundated with information nowadays, first and foremost.

0:01:39 Roland Pankewich: But I don’t think that people think of fitness as a health tool outside of weight loss and body composition. First and foremost. I’m a believer that fitness and moving your body is still the silver bullet, the closest thing to a silver bullet we have. So I want to get into that with you, but I’d like to know a little bit more about your background so everyone can get to know you.

0:02:02 Trevor Hash: Yeah. So I, Josh and I, my brother, started making YouTube videos that were kind of more strength and fitness related now, like, 12 years ago. And we’ve been doing it since then, and it’s gotten really big. We have over 2 million subscribers. And over the time, our evolution can be seen on the channel. We moved more from strength training and fitness related to, I’d say, just more like general health and movement related.

0:02:34 Trevor Hash: And we still talk about strength, but we put it through the lens of like, hey, how does this make you a healthier human being? Not chasing fitness as the end goal? And so, you know, and so we’ve also come to value things like, hey, can you move your body through full ranges of motion? Can you enjoy moving in general? And so that’s kind of been our evolution. And there’ll probably be more evolutions along the way, but I’m really happy with where we’re at right now.

0:03:06 Roland Pankewich: Yeah, it’s inevitable. Nothing stands still in life. Right? It’s all about growth. And that’s what I love about what you guys do. Personally. That’s what attracted me to wanting to follow you guys years ago. Full disclosure. Years ago, I was made aware of Trevor’s podcast, and I just saw this authenticity behind what it is they were teaching everyone. And realizing that I was getting closer to 40, I’m starting to push that. Oh, I want to still feel good. Move well.

0:03:33 Roland Pankewich: And you do realize that exercise, now more than ever, is so nuanced. And if you’re not someone who has a background in it, like I do, I could see why it would be overwhelming. And in saying that, I want to ask you, you know the title of this is, what why your fitness program isn’t working. Why do you think fitness isn’t working for people on a grand scale nowadays?

0:03:55 Trevor Hash: Yeah, I mean, I. I think that the. In so many categories, the world isn’t set up for health. And I’ve just gone through one of these where we just had our first kid, and the idea that at three months, my wife, what’s supposed to be going back to work, is just bizarre to me. Like, it doesn’t seem like that is the healthiest thing for our family and our child, that we would hand our kid off to someone for nine hours a day. And so, like, I think, like, in that, through that lens, the world isn’t set up for the healthiest things.

0:04:32 Trevor Hash: And the way that fitness is viewed as a culture, I think is similar where we’re supposed to go to a gym and be under fluorescent lights and be in this overstimulating environment, and then we go and we do exercises where we move like robots over and over, up and down. And it’s like, yeah, no wonder. Not only do potentially a lot of people who even work out regularly not necessarily feel their best, they’re moving like robots all the time and all that, but also just, like, in general, no wonder so many people don’t end up succeeding and they drop off and they stop going to the gym. Or it’s like, who wants to do that, oh, personally, if I were to be just going to the gym, I think I would be pretty unenthused.

0:05:22 Trevor Hash: So, yeah, I just think our culture, the way we think of fitness, this kind of punishment mentality, it really doesn’t breed a lot of success for a lot of people to just feel well. And that’s kind of how I think of it, is like, I’m after wellness as a general human being. I’m looking at the totality. I don’t really care if you can run a marathon or you could squat 500 pounds. How do you feel when you wake up in the morning? You’re like, that’s more important to me.

0:05:57 Roland Pankewich: I couldn’t agree more because, you know, as a young man, and I’m sure you went through this too, you want to be strong, you want to seem like you’re an imposing figure. It really is an ego driven pursuit in many ways. But there are some positive side effects that come from that. I think fitness can be a very transformative thing for you inside of yourself and your journey of life. But as you start to age, which most people who are listening to this podcast are probably in that category, you realize that things in your mind don’t necessarily always follow a timeline of where the body is.

0:06:31 Roland Pankewich: You know, like, oh, I can do that. And then you do something like, oh my God, that hurt. Or you try to do something that you used to do effortlessly and either it’s incredibly laborious or you just simply can’t do it and you have this moment of like, holy crap, what happened? So I don’t even think people have a really good definition of fitness because, like, what you said, it’s either I can run for a long period of time or I can lift something really heavy.

0:06:54 Roland Pankewich: How would you define fitness in your personal perspective?

0:06:59 Trevor Hash: Great question. I mean, I would say first off, you should be, you should have a capacity to move a lot. That doesn’t necessarily mean you have to run the marathon, but just in general, like, yeah, you should be able to hike and just like be able to move your body for a majority of a day. And you should be able to pick up things that are relatively heavy and move them. And you should be able to have access to a majority of the range of motions in your body that, that to where your ranges of motion don’t hold you back from things that are daily tasks or if you are into a sport, you should be able to move through the range of motion that your sport or hobby needs.

0:07:51 Trevor Hash: And of course, like, yeah, you should, you should be Able to sleep well and eat well and all that stuff. And I think it’s like, it’s funny because it is as simple as that. And it’s like research and all this. It’s pretty well defined at this point what a healthy human being is. And the research is pretty clear. We understand how to get there. It’s. It’s fairly simple. And yet if you look around, most people don’t have all those things.

0:08:27 Trevor Hash: So what are we doing wrong? Like, if the research is there and we understand how to get from point A to point B, what’s breaking down? Like, that’s more what I’m interested in.

0:08:37 Roland Pankewich: Ah, what’s breaking down? So, like, what’s not converting in your activities to improve your overall health and quality of life?

0:08:46 Trevor Hash: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I would even say. I would. I would add to that, I think, you know, okay, like, you and I live in bubbles. We’re generally around people who are actually active. But I think it’s easy. More you than me.

0:09:02 Roland Pankewich: I live in the South.

0:09:06 Trevor Hash: I am in Colorado. But yeah, if you look around at, like, a majority of our population, we’re not even getting to the point where people want to move their body. What’s up with that? Like, that’s kind of what I’m interested in. It’s like, hey, like, if. Yes, if. If someone is already going to the gym, awesome, great, good. Just keep going to the gym. That’s. I. I’m happy for you. You know, as long as you. As long as you are getting some fulfillment out of it, other than just crushing yourself, happy for you. Do it.

0:09:38 Trevor Hash: But it’s the people we’re leaving behind that I get really concerned with this cultural trend towards. To me, it’s. It’s an. It’s an apathy and it’s a. I think we’ve. We’ve pitched movement. Just. Just movement in general, moving your body. I think we’ve proposed it in the wrong way to those people. I think that those people are being left behind because they see what they think, what it would take to get to a level of fitness that would be healthy as something that’s like, oh, I have to punish myself.

0:10:19 Trevor Hash: We see people like David Goggins online who is telling you that when you think you’re done, you’re only 40% of the way there. And I think that is really intimidating for a lot of people. And they’re like, no, I can’t do it. I can’t go to gyms. It’s too hard for me. My schedule doesn’t Fit it. I just think that, like, it’s really sad, you know, it’s like, I think that those people could find a way to be fit in their lives and it’s not going to take what they think it’s going to take and they’ll actually end up enjoying it and feeling better on the other end.

0:10:52 Trevor Hash: But we have, as a, as a fitness culture, I think we’ve let those people down.

0:10:57 Roland Pankewich: You know, you bring up an incredible point. Years ago, before I got into the world of health, I was also in the world of fitness and I had this mentor. He was absolutely insane in the best kind of ways. One of those brilliant mind genius types. And he would blurt out these little sound bites that were so impactful. And I remember him saying, we don’t celebrate anything we achieve in fitness unless it’s about trophies or you hurt yourself in the process.

0:11:21 Roland Pankewich: And I remember him saying that going, yeah, you’re right. We’ll celebrate the football player that tears his hamstring off the bone trying to get the final touchdown, but we won’t celebrate the mom who shed 40 pounds after her baby and is now able to go for a five mile run pushing a stroller because there’s nothing seemingly remarkable about that. So the culture of fitness is kind of unhealthy. If we look at the notion that punishment equals success, I totally see what you’re saying.

0:11:53 Trevor Hash: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you nailed it. You nailed it. Punishment equals success. That’s, I think, where we break down and, and then even on top that it’s, it’s kind of sad to think about. But a lot of those people, the people who take these things to their end, to me, you said it. I think a lot of them are unhealthy and not in the ways of maybe cardiovascular health or in the ways of, you know, just like whatever, any, any, any marker that we would try to, try to put value in as physical health.

0:12:30 Trevor Hash: I’m thinking more along the lines of like, hey, those people, they seem kind of sad.

0:12:36 Roland Pankewich: Yeah. When was the last time, you know?

0:12:39 Trevor Hash: Yeah. And like those, like, to me, oftentimes, not always, but oftentimes those people, they’re training themselves away from something, something bad inside of them. And instead of training their body and mind and soul to, towards something that is healthy, well, whatever you want to ascribe to it. And so for me, like, that’s how I always check in with myself and like kind of getting back to something that’s maybe more practical for people to take away is like how I check in with my Personal fitness, exercise, whatever, is like, hey, is this somehow going to make me a better person?

0:13:17 Trevor Hash: Am I going to be more satisfied in life? Whatever. And oftentimes for me it’s like really moving. Your body is joyous. And I, I love, I have tons of physical hobbies, and so anything I’m doing for exercise is usually leading me towards having more fun doing the things that I like to do. And, and sometimes that can look like really hard work. Sometimes it’s something I don’t necessarily want to do. So it’s not like, oh, man, I just, I’m just happy and I love running and I love, like, no, no, no, like, that’s not who I am.

0:13:52 Trevor Hash: I have to, I have to get myself to like, oh, I got to start this workout. I don’t really want to. Okay. But on the other end of that is, well, if I do these pull ups now, then when I’m climbing and I could climb a little bit harder, oh, I can just imagine that smile on my face, you know, and so that’s, that’s how I try to look for opportunities to move my body, because I know it’s going to lead to more fulfillment in life.

0:14:20 Roland Pankewich: So what I see there as a mechanism, shall we call it, is like, there is a practical outcome from you investing time in this endeavor of getting fitter, to improve your quality of life, to do the thing that you enjoy doing when you’re active. So it’s a healthy association there. What do you think the limitations are besides what you’ve already mentioned about, you know, punishing yourself, the average person, when they think of fitness? It’s either start doing distance aerobic work, go to the gym, as you mentioned, and maybe a yoga class.

0:14:57 Roland Pankewich: Like, what is traditional Western fitness leaving out for people in terms of the benefits that they can get for their body and their health?

0:15:10 Trevor Hash: I think, and this is, this is just my personal opinion, but, yeah, I think we’ve made it too complicated. Okay. Like, I think that a majority of people could, could get 80 to 90% of the benefits without ever leaving their house. Like, I don’t think we need to be going to gyms. I don’t think we need to be going to yoga classes. It’s like, you could do so much for your health in 20 to 30 minutes at home, just, just doing some very, very basic things.

0:15:43 Trevor Hash: And I don’t know. And, and also, and also, I guess on top of that is the intensity in which we think we need to work to get to the outcome of fitness. I think people have like a Very skewed perception of that. You know, on strength side we’ve gone through in the last like three months, we’ve kind of gone through these very basic movements that you could just do every single day. Body weight squats, basic push ups, some sort of like pulling that like, you know, isn’t super hard.

0:16:19 Trevor Hash: And if you just accumulated a lot of consistency with these really basic things, you would be way further beyond someone who tries going to the gym, crushes themselves all the time and then feels sore all the time and then doesn’t like moving and ends up not moving consistently. Right. So I think it’s just, I think it’s just simpler and almost easier than we make it out to be. And we build up in our mind what a workout is supposed to be, how I’m supposed to feel at the end. I’m supposed to feel like, oh, so exhausted and crushed. That’s how I know I got a good workout. Oh, I can’t sit down on the toilet the next day.

0:17:02 Trevor Hash: I must have done something right at the gym. Like, I think that mentality is the thing that holds us back. It’s way simpler. And if you just think about gaining consistency with your movement, I think so many avenues are going to open up for so many people. And we’ve seen it because we’ve started putting out these kind of, we’ve proposed these ideas on strength side and so many people are resonating with them. Which makes me so happy because like, I think there is a huge, there’s a growing population of people in our, in our society who are disaffected by the fitness community and they’re realizing it.

0:17:39 Trevor Hash: They’re like, no, like, I think they’re starting to, it’s starting to dawn on that and they’re like, no, I think it’s just that bodybuilding took over and like marathon Ironman training took over and CrossFit took over and I reject that. But I didn’t know where, I didn’t know that there was another option. And we’re giving them that option. And it’s not like it’s new, it’s not like we came up with it. It’s like, hey, all this stuff is so old actually, you know, like, look at, look at ancient Indian society.

0:18:11 Trevor Hash: They would do Hindu push ups and Hindu squats and they would swing Indian clubs around and they just do it every day. And they were incredibly.

0:18:18 Roland Pankewich: Every day. Yep. You know, you’re, you’re so bang on in that. I remember having an awareness. Two quick stories that you have been a Direct contributor to in my life. But when I used to train young soccer players, the parents would always stay and watch the workouts. And I remember this one dad saying to me, I want them crawling out of the gym on their hands and knees. And I just, I looked at him and I didn’t even have time to think about this. It just came out of me. I went, I’m not into child abuse.

0:18:48 Roland Pankewich: That’s what I sent him as a response. And he just got taken aback because, you know when you have those automated, like, oh, God, I blurted that out. My editor wasn’t here for that moment. I just said what I was actually feeling. And it’s true, because the mentality comes from the ceiling of mass consciousness with what you said. These things that kind of take over as a philosophy predominate what the unconscious reality of how everyone relates to fitness primarily is.

0:19:16 Roland Pankewich: And the second thing that I think, I really want to hit this home for everyone because a lot of people do shy away from exercise because of what you just said. Like, oh, I don’t want to be so sore. I don’t want to feel like I am going to puke afterwards. On the podcast, we talk a lot about mechanisms of inflammation in the body, right? Being so incredibly sore. It’s called dom’s delayed onset muscle soreness.

0:19:38 Roland Pankewich: That’s your body being pissed off at you because you made it really inflamed by excessive physical stress. But in health, we have this. Inflammation equals bad. So you try to get away from inflammation at all costs with gut health, immune function. But with exercise is like, give me all the inflammation.

0:19:57 Trevor Hash: I want more of it.

0:20:00 Roland Pankewich: Because it’s telling me that I am validating my own activities and existence. So what you said about downregulating the intensity and doing less, I remember one time I was walking somewhere, I was in Florida, I was walking around and I was just like on a mission to go to my coffee shop in the morning. And I had this awareness of, my God, I’m walking so fast for no reason. And I heard your voice in my head just say downregulate.

0:20:29 Roland Pankewich: And I can attest to the fact. And I just instantly, like, my reality just glitched. And I just started walking calmly and I reduced my speed by probably 50% and I felt so much more relaxed. And why I’m bringing this up is most people think they have to raise all kinds of stress hormones to get a workout in. They need to push themselves to the max if they don’t lift more than they did the week before. Every time or if they don’t have a perceived better workout, they’re failing.

0:20:57 Roland Pankewich: And the body doesn’t like that long term. That’s why a lot of these high intensity things, crossfit, orange theory, whatever, like, yeah, they’re fun. Yeah, there’s group camaraderie. Yeah, there’s competition. From a physiologic perspective, the body is not meant to be, you know, running at the red line all the time. Whereas if you did lower intensity, more frequent home workouts or even going out to a park, go to a class every so often, maybe visit the gym once, twice a week just to get some variety in there. But what you’re saying is you’ll get more from the health side of it if you just learn not to exhaust yourself every time you think about being

0:21:36 Trevor Hash: fit or moving a hundred percent. Yeah, well, I mean, if you think about it from a nervous system perspective, it’s like if you train your body just through repetition to think that ramping up your nervous system to the point where it’s in fl, fight or flight is the only way to move, then every time you move, your body’s anticipating that and you’re teaching, you’re teaching your nervous system that it should perceive everything as a threat, all movement as a threat. And so we have to ramp up for it.

0:22:12 Trevor Hash: And so a lot of times what I’m doing as a coach, when I’m working with like a majority of people, I actually have to get them to what you said, down, regulate and try to move with ease first. And then, then if that’s the new normal, then when you need that next level, it’s there for you. And you can ramp up into that really sympathetic and use it as a tool. But if that’s the null, then like, yeah, I mean, that’s it, that’s it. And I’d also say going back to what you said too about the walking, you’re also, if you are someone who works out a lot and that is your mechanism for working out. And I’ve gone through this myself over and over again.

0:22:56 Trevor Hash: When I start doing that a lot, how you do anything is how you do everything. So you are just teaching yourself to be in sympathetic more often. So then, and you’re just walking. I mean, I catch myself doing it when I’m washing my dishes. I’m like, oh, gotta get this done, gotta get this done. Then at some point I just realized like, hey, it might take me 30 second seconds longer if I slow down. But also this will be way more enjoyable and I won’t feel overstimulated when I’m done and feel like I need to rush to the next thing.

0:23:24 Trevor Hash: So we’re just kind of training our. Our nervous system to just be calmer throughout the day. So I like to look at if I’m setting a T, if I’m setting aside time to go work on my health, to exercise. It’s also. It’s also time for me to work on me. How. How do I want to be in the world? How do I want to feel? Right. It’s like we don’t have, like. I get it. We’re all super busy. I just had a kid. I understand it’s a very busy life.

0:23:56 Trevor Hash: And so we don’t have time multiple times in the day to try to think about how we can be a better person. But you’ve already set aside this time for yourself to exercise. So how can I also bring some of who I want to be into my movement practice to make me a better person and work on my health, my physical health as well? And I think that is like the culmination of what I try to kind of help people through.

0:24:26 Roland Pankewich: That’s so brilliantly put because there’s a few things that you’re working on there mechanistically, but at the same time, one, there’s this. This, I guess, mentalism aspect of consciously feeding the person that you want to be. So if you are someone who’s super high strung, highly stressed, always on the go, moving a million miles an hour, which is 95 to 99 of people

0:24:52 Trevor Hash: in the Western world, literally just gonna say that, let’s be honest.

0:24:55 Roland Pankewich: And I’m saying this because you helped me with my own awareness under this. Being an athlete. Everything for me was explosive. And I was a. I was a combat sports athlete. It’s really hard to be chill when someone is trying to hit you. So I had to learn to unwire all this stuff and do that. But back to the point I was making. You’re working on the framing of influencing conscious development of the person you want to be.

0:25:25 Roland Pankewich: You’re working with that fight or flight, rest or digest nervous system, which I’ve talked about a ton, because for someone to heal, they need to increase the recruitment of that what’s called parasympathetic side of things. And it’s not the 10 minutes a day you practice breathing. It’s everything that you do is driven by the unconscious. And the third thing is you’re redefining your relationship with something to really make it a health catalyst like movement. I believe As I said at the beginning, is the closest thing we have to the silver bullet of the all beneficial aspects of influencing your own health, regardless of what you’re dealing with.

0:26:04 Roland Pankewich: But yeah, this conversation is making me realize that we never talk about this stuff as a society. So I understand why. When a medical professional says, yeah, just like eat less and get some exercise, what does that mean? This is an example of what that means. So I would love to shift gears then and say to you or ask you rather, in your experience and in your own personal opinion, that’s all we can give nowadays when it comes to perspective.

0:26:30 Roland Pankewich: What do you think the kind of movement that you’re suggesting is doing for people on the health front? Maybe things that you’ve seen, maybe insights or intuition that you have. I’d love to hear what you have to say about this.

0:26:45 Trevor Hash: Let me ask you a question about your question. Do you mean like the, the type of exercise that I, that I maybe prescribe to people?

0:26:57 Roland Pankewich: Yeah, the type of exercise. And also this, this mentality that you’re bringing into exercise, like maybe what are you seeing it do in people’s health? Experiential. Are you seeing they’re losing weight? Are they seeing that they’re less tense and stiff? Are they getting stronger? Like what’s happening to people when.

0:27:15 Trevor Hash: That’s a great question. Yeah. So, okay, so a lot of people come to me, oh, I don’t even think I mentioned this. I do, I do YouTube, but I also coach people and you know, like, I have this interesting experience where because I have a platform, I get people from all over the world that are coming to me for coaching. And so it’s, it’s fascinating because it’s, it’s really cool to see that like I get to work with someone in Hong Kong, in the Netherlands and, and in Texas and they’re all dealing with the same problems, right?

0:27:50 Trevor Hash: And it’s, it’s fascinating and usually when people come to me, they’re, they are wanting to get better at a specific skill of some kind. They want to get into calisthenics, they want to learn handstands, they want to learn how to move their body on the ground. And you know, whatever it is, and oftentimes how I like the trajectory that we, that we move along is we look at where they want to go performance wise and then we say, hey, that’s the goal.

0:28:22 Trevor Hash: But also let’s forget about that goal and like we’re going to set this, we’re going to steer the ship towards that goal. But let’s work on you. And that’s where these conversations come in, is we spend a lot of time talking about, hey, what’s holding you back? Because you could just buy a generic program on how to do handstands and go and learn handstands on your own. You don’t, you don’t necessarily need me.

0:28:48 Trevor Hash: And most people who have coming to me, they’ve probably tried that already. So what’s holding you back? And so what I end up seeing is when we go through these conversations, hey, maybe let’s downregulate a bit. Hey, what, what we end up finding is, oh my gosh, I feel better, I’m sleeping better, my gut is working better, and now my progress is speeding towards that goal. But I didn’t, I thought I was gonna have to work way harder to get to that goal.

0:29:21 Trevor Hash: It’s actually if I just kind of tone things down and make myself healthier, it gives me access to a lot more capacity, skill related learning, all of that that I didn’t know I had access to. Does that answer your question?

0:29:40 Roland Pankewich: It does, yeah. Yeah. So basically what you’re doing on a very like a 30,000 foot view is you’re taking someone out of their automated programming as it’s currently driving their health. Because you’re noticing that most people are driven by chronic fight or flight, like to do, to do list mentality. Right. Just moving things to get things done and then they crash for the day. And you’re, you’re taking them out of that and bringing them more so into the present with the focus of towards a goal.

0:30:09 Roland Pankewich: But it is about the journey and the process. It’s not about the goal. You’re. And in that you’re teaching them about themselves and helping them to unwind. What made them come to you in the first place? Because no one’s coming to you saying, trevor, I feel great. I want, you know, it’s, they’re like, I’m sore, I’m tired, I have everything I need.

0:30:28 Trevor Hash: Yeah, exactly.

0:30:29 Roland Pankewich: I have everything I need. So I don’t need you, but I still want to waste your time. So you’re figuring out from a lifestyle perspective, through the catalyst of movement, how to help someone rewire themselves. And it’s in that that you downregulate their nervous system’s vigilance and they increase their capacity to do things. And as a result of that increased capacity, their health and their fitness levels go up in tandem. Is that a fair way of describing it?

0:30:57 Trevor Hash: 100%, yeah. Let me give you an example. So I had A guy come to me recently who was dealing. He. He knew he was dealing with chronic fatigue, and he was. He was actually working on that, already getting a lot better, but still kind of struggling. And he was very stiff and he. And. And like, dealing with pain in his body because of the stiffness. And he had been doing all kinds of stretching and, you know, things to. To try to work on his flexibility and work through the pain with very little success.

0:31:33 Trevor Hash: And so he came to me and I was like, hey, man, we’re just gonna put in this little daily practice, and I want you to start going for walks. But not like, not like, oh, how fast am I walking? What’s my heart rate? Am I in zone two? Like, what? You know, just like, hey, walk out your door and walk slow and just like, look around. Try to go. Try to walk through parks if you can. And within like a few months, his flexibility, I mean, like, explo. Like, it was like, it was so transformational. It was.

0:32:10 Trevor Hash: I mean, I was surprised with how much progress he was getting. I was like, dang, I’m pretty good at my job. But. But all it. But all it was was like, hey, we just needed to. We needed him to down regulate. And then he. And then he was able to make progress in what he wanted to. And so, you know, it’s. It can be as simple as that. And like, I do think a lot what. What’s holding a lot of people back from their fitness goals is just that they’re overstimulated and they don’t know how to downregulate, they don’t know how to recover, they don’t know how to move easefully.

0:32:47 Trevor Hash: And I don’t know, like, I’ve seen it time and time again. It seems very clear to me that, like, yeah, and it’s. It’s just a cultural thing that’s like, that’s why I’m trying to change the culture.

0:32:57 Roland Pankewich: Yeah, Very, very succinctly put. You know, most people who listen to this podcast are either. I call them health warriors. They’re on their journey of getting healthy. For whatever reason, they’ve come to this. You know, I look at it as an opportunity in life. People may not resonate with this, but there is no problem or no challenge without the upside of what comes along with that. Right? You learn about yourself, you become more well versed in being a human in the third dimension.

0:33:24 Roland Pankewich: You educate yourself, you deal with adversity. You know, the classic hero’s journey. And then the other side are clinicians who are dealing with people who have a host of health challenges and most of them are seeking help outside the traditional medical system. And exercise for a compromised population is always a dicey topic because it comes back to that capacity. If someone is dealing with an autoimmune flare up, they have dramatically reduced capacity because their immune system is taking as much energy as is needed to try to deal with the threat. But it’s also driving the problem.

0:33:59 Roland Pankewich: If someone’s got, you know, chronic gut issues and they’re not digesting their food, they’re not nourishing their body, if they have a host of cardiovascular, neurological challenges, the barrel effect, that is how much capacity is in the barrel before the spillover, which actually pushes them in a worse state. It’s a very high risk aspect of helping them improve all quality of life through fitness.

0:34:26 Roland Pankewich: What are some important starting points that you can share with these people, I. E. The practitioner population, who people are asking, hey, how do I start fitness? Or the people who are wanting to get in better shape, they know they need to do something fitness related, but every time they try, they destroy themselves. Like, what are some. I know it’s, you’re very much personalized in the, in the approach, but what are some foundational things that you can suggest to people to start, I mean,

0:34:53 Trevor Hash: honestly fall in love with walking? That’s one. I think everyone. It’s so funny because we get in these, we get in these debates in the health and fitness and you know, especially evidence.

0:35:04 Roland Pankewich: Evidence based.

0:35:05 Trevor Hash: Evidence based. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Whether 10,000 steps a day is useful

0:35:11 Roland Pankewich: and was it 9,900 are useless? It’s only 10,000.

0:35:15 Trevor Hash: No, exactly. Yeah, yeah. And I think it’s just a silly debate because it’s, we’re trying to isolate and distill a problem that to me is like, if someone isn’t getting 10,000 steps in a day, then it’s not because they, it’s not that they should have for the number, it’s that they should like moving their body enough and listening to their body and understanding that there is an impulse to move. And we’ve deadened that because we’ve been told from the first experience of learning from teachers that you sit down and you do your work and hey, your back, your back feels funny sitting in that chair.

0:36:01 Trevor Hash: Doesn’t matter, you finish your work. Right? Like, so we’ve disconnected ourselves from our body so much that we don’t even listen to the impulse that says, hey, I need to go walk. That’s. That to me is the problem. So like a healthy person Just gets enough movement in their day. So I think that’s, that’s the one is like fall in love with walking. But it doesn’t have to be walking. Fall in love with some sort of movement.

0:36:29 Trevor Hash: I don’t know what it is. Like you’re going to have to figure that out. That’s kind of what going back to what I was saying earlier is like, hey, have a morning practice. And like morning practice is such a loaded term now because sometimes for so many people they’ve seen the go take a cold shower and you have to sit down and meditate and it’s like sure, maybe, yeah. And also like, I don’t know, maybe you’d be more likely to do something that you actually enjoy, you know. And so maybe like for me a morning practice could just look like sitting on the ground, chilling, doing, doing a little bit of stretching, doing some body weight squats, hanging from a bar. I love, like that just sounds so nice to me.

0:37:12 Trevor Hash: And none of it’s hard and that’s why I keep doing it because I can just continually do it over time and I do see a lot of progress. So some sort of movement in the morning moving your lymph fall that like there’s so many physiological reasons, but also just, just getting your body moving. I think that also your mind works better when you’ve been moving. Like, I mean it’s very simple. Like test it out yourself.

0:37:42 Trevor Hash: You feel like you feel like crap sitting on your computer, doing a bunch of work. Get up and go for a five minute walk, Come back, you’ll think clearer. Like you know, it’s just, it’s so simple. So, so the actionable items are find something you like to do in the morning, fall in love with walking. And I would say hang from a bar once in a while. I do think that that seems to be one of those things that like everyone gets payout from.

0:38:06 Roland Pankewich: I agree. After every, if I’m doing one of these or if I’m doing work calls, I always go outside and do something movement related and hanging or even just like sitting in a squat and just kind of hanging out there for a little bit or gently moving my body in different variations and directions. It just feels like it brings everything back together. It gets you out of the rigidity of being so mentally focused and more cohesively in touch with your physical, mental and emotional self.

0:38:35 Roland Pankewich: What about if someone. So I’ll go for it. You have something to add?

0:38:39 Trevor Hash: I was gonna say I, I would add too. A big problem that we see right now. And in just a lot of people’s bodies is stiffness, you know, especially as we age, especially men. So one thing that is, is just this. The simplest thing you can do is sit on the ground. And it’s, it’s, it’s wild to watch. I’ll have people come to me, we’ll meet like this on a zoom call and I’ll feel their stress coming from them and I feel that they are not only like, they are a stiff person, but like in that moment they are stiff.

0:39:15 Trevor Hash: And I’ll just say, hey, let’s keep chatting, but let’s just sit on the ground. And like they don’t know what I’m doing, but really I, I watch them change and they start sitting on the ground, then they start moving and shifting because it’s uncomfortable. You can’t sit in one position still. So you’re sitting, they’re stretching, their voice starts to come down, they speak slower, and then we end up having a, usually a really good conversation. And then at the end I’ll check in and say, hey, how do you feel? Say, oh, I actually feel a lot better.

0:39:45 Trevor Hash: And they got a bunch of stretching in. And so if you just plug that into your life, sit on the ground often enough, you’re gonna, you’re like, your hips are gonna get more mobile, you’re gonna downregulate yourself. Like it’s just one of those, those like, like it’s such a healthy thing. It’s kind of a no brainer for everyone. So actionable item is find things you can sit on that make that comfortable. If you need like a little yoga pillow, like, like have that available to you.

0:40:12 Trevor Hash: You know, I, I have this, I have like a little sitting desk so that I can work while sitting on the, on the ground. And it’s not like I sit there all day, but intermittently throughout the day I try to, to work from that and like, you know, so it’s just like build these things into your life and these will all culminate into a body that is capable of moving and likes moving. And then you’re more likely to go and do more movement for fun throughout the day, you know, or throughout your week.

0:40:42 Roland Pankewich: That’s brilliant. It’s like micro dosing things, right? You’re slowly giving yourself a little bit here and there. And sitting on the ground, if you have not done it in years is humbling because you got to get up again.

0:40:56 Trevor Hash: Yeah, yeah, exactly. No, but I think actually what you just said is really poignant. Micro dosing movement, that’s how we’re supposed to. To live our lives, you know, like, or that’s at least how we are designed to live our lives, is we’re not supposed to sit all day and then go crush ourselves at the gym for an hour. You know, it’s like we’re supposed to kind of just generally move throughout the day. And sometimes that ramps up towards like what a workout would be, but it doesn’t mean that you don’t move the rest of your day.

0:41:29 Trevor Hash: So really it’s like, how can you build in? And really, for, for me, it comes back to environment. For most people, even the simplest things, like what pants are you wearing to work? Do they allow you to sit in a squat? If not, then of course your hips are going to be stiff and you’re not going to move. Right. Just the simplest things with environments. So the example of like the yoga, like a little yoga pad to sit on a bar that you can hang from, that you can like just kind of do throughout the, like little, little things in your environment that can be accused to move your body.

0:42:03 Trevor Hash: That’s how you do this. Like, you have to change the structure of your life, and I guarantee you’re going to feel a lot better.

0:42:11 Roland Pankewich: The answer. When you said what kind of pants you wear to work, I wanted to say, I wear my big boy pants to work. But that might actually be what’s causing a whole bunch of issues with people. That explanation or that, that adage that you just put in so wonderfully, actually preemptively answered the next question. Because the next question from where do you start? Was how do you progress? So it sounds like after you fall in love with walking or whatever that thing that you’re just naturally doing is, you start to microdose little bits of things outside the bounds of what you’re used to, and you watch your body change. So thank you for being psychic and answering the question that was in my head.

0:42:50 Roland Pankewich: The third question I have that I want to leave with people as a value, and I think this is the one that no one asks. If you are in a compromised state or if you’re getting into this after not having been fit for a while, I would say that’s a state of compromise because you can’t just jump into something without potential consequence. What, what should you avoid from a mentality or an action perspective? That might be something that’s. This is a tough question.

0:43:16 Roland Pankewich: Too much too soon, or potentially something that you’ve been told is beneficial to you, but in reality it’s not specified to you if you’re in a compromised state, that’s great.

0:43:30 Trevor Hash: I would say the big trap that a lot of people fall into is, I mean, definitely pushing themselves too hard, but also the types of movement that you’re doing. Like, I guess when people, when people don’t really know what to do, they default to what does everyone else do. And so they go to the gym and they start lifting weights and they start getting on a treadmill. And none of that is inherently bad.

0:44:02 Trevor Hash: I lift weights, I, I like to go for runs and, you know, whatever. But also they can be really hard on the body. And just like how we were talking about earlier, how you do anything is how you do everything. So if you are coming from a place that’s deconditioned, potentially deconditioned, and then you start training your body to move like a robot, and you’re going to move like a robot and you will be stiff and that might even, you know, like some people start gaining muscle and it feels good.

0:44:39 Trevor Hash: But there are inherent risks to that and the big ones are the ones we see in our culture. How many people deal with back pain? It’s something like 70% of Americans deal with back pain intermittently. How many people have knee problems? I think the number is like 50% have dealt with knee problems in the last year. Elbows, shoulders, they all have similar statistics. And so some of that is from sedentarism, but some of that, a lot of that is from how we are moving our bodies, whether it’s lack of moving in certain directions or too much overuse in others.

0:45:16 Trevor Hash: So, you know, I think there’s a, there’s a simple, the simplest way to get started is kind of what I said at the beginning. Find some things that you can do daily that move your joints through big ranges of motion and like, don’t do them so repetitively that you find you’re getting joint pain and stiffness. Move slow, control your body. Feel, understand like what, how it feels inside your body to do something.

0:45:49 Trevor Hash: Don’t think about the output, think about the input. Like all of that is going to breed a practice that you can then scale up towards. If you do get interested in lifting weights and you want to lift more weights, you’ll be coming from a place that is probably going to actually make that healthier for you than just trying to put more weight on the bar all the time.

0:46:11 Roland Pankewich: From the beginning, that’s brilliant that focus on input, not output. Said differently, don’t be focused on what you’re seeing outside of yourself. Become very self aware through the process and learn to speak the language of the body. I don’t, I don’t feel, think and feel that in the Western world we’re taught to listen to our bodies because we just, as you said, we’re doing the thing that we’re told or suggested that we should be doing.

0:46:40 Roland Pankewich: And your body might be telling you either through pain or through just general discomfort, emotional unease, like it doesn’t want to have a bar on its back and do heavy squats. It doesn’t want to go in, you know, a tight porter in the gym under fake lights with other people. Because being watched while you’re doing these things for the first time can be highly stressful. So learn to connect in with yourself and don’t push yourself too hard.

0:47:07 Roland Pankewich: Is that probably the thing that I would say that would be the progression of, be mindful of progressing in this way if you’re not necessarily ready for the capacity?

0:47:20 Trevor Hash: Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I mean, like we said earlier, the, the mistake we see, always see people make too often is just thinking that they have to progressively overload and all that kind of stuff. And it’s like, yeah, that stuff scientifically is true. And also like, hey, you should just get in the habit of maybe picking up something relatively heavy once in a while, like, you know, so that you can continually do it over time.

0:47:46 Trevor Hash: You should be in the habit of moving your body through full ranges of motion so that it gets better and you can do it more. Right. It’s, it’s not, it’s, it’s, it’s just, it’s so cliche, but it’s, it’s far more about consistency. That’s it. And so if you think about it through that lens, then I want to be able to be training my body 10 years from now. Well, that puts a lot of onus on me to keep myself safe right now so that I can continue my practices for hopefully my whole lifetime.

0:48:19 Trevor Hash: Right. The responsibility is on you.

0:48:24 Roland Pankewich: We talk about personal responsibility a lot, you know, like no one’s coming to save you and your health isn’t someone else’s responsibility, it’s yours. But in saying that, and I’m going to assume that you don’t have a callous, like militant do it or else kind of mentality. It’s just more like, hey, look, this is what it takes. And if you can prioritize yourself enough and be patient with the process and committed enough to the process, the long term reward and the outcome is better than you can imagine.

0:48:56 Trevor Hash: Yeah, yeah. It’s funny because I Get a little, I get a little bit frustrated with, I mean I mentioned David Goggins earlier and I appreciate that he exists and I think he’s probably, he’s a great person. So I don’t want to think people think I’m like hating on him. But yeah, I think it’s easy for a lot of people in the moment to push themselves really hard. I think that’s what we see. We see people overdo it and then the problem is it’s actually far harder to do something continuously for 10 years.

0:49:29 Trevor Hash: Like I think that’s, that’s like the, you know, the crush it mentality that people have in the gym. It’s far harder to crush yourself with consistency. That’s the admirable thing.

0:49:42 Roland Pankewich: Oh, that’s the sound bite, that’s that. No, that’s the mic drop right there. Because that’s what delineates, that’s a practice. You know there’s an old saying that says short term motivation leads to failure. Ideally we’re trying to participate in this for life. I remember being in Europe when I was younger and my, my family friend had a place there and when he wasn’t there this old couple would watch his house and this 84 year old guy would be hopping up and down off of like four foot walls and gardening.

0:50:11 Roland Pankewich: Well, he’s never exercised a day in his life in the gym but he tended to his own garden, he built a lot of his own stuff. So at 84 he was mobile enough to go up and down the hill, jump the fence or it was like a little retaining wall. He would be able to climb it and hop down from it. And I remember watching that going, I don’t know an 84 that move. 84 year old that moves like that. And we think in the western world we’re the epicenter of the highest caliber of science and know how. But he just moved every day.

0:50:42 Trevor Hash: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

0:50:44 Roland Pankewich: And he didn’t get too stressed about it.

0:50:47 Trevor Hash: Exactly. That’s, that’s a big one and that’s, that’s what frustrates me a lot actually with kind of the more science based, you know, blah, blah, blah fitness is, I think a lot of times what that ends up doing is, is it actually ends up creating more stress for people in their life and like, I don’t know, I think that is moving away from health. Like I think we should just generally enjoy moving enough that we do you naturally. Like if you enjoy moving enough then you’ll like doing pull ups.

0:51:19 Trevor Hash: You’ll probably just do a Lot of pull ups and you’ll probably get healthier and have a great physique. But like the, like just a mentality of like, well, I have to do this workout that tells me to do this many pull ups and, and then I have to do it two to three times a week. It’s like, yeah, no, yeah. Or you could just kind of do pull ups often enough, but not too much, you know, I don’t know.

0:51:43 Roland Pankewich: Without an outcome specific goal. Yeah, I think that’s wonderful and it’s what society needs to hear right now. Because you’re right. If we fall into the trap of following the external evidence based mentality, then if we’re not measuring up to that, if we’re not getting what we want out of it, you’re absolutely correct. It will create a stress in us which will push us more out of balance, which will make us fall out of love with exercise and the pursuit of self improvement because we’re creating a scenario where we’re not succeeding.

0:52:14 Roland Pankewich: That’s a very, very wise framing that you just gave us.

0:52:17 Trevor Hash: Yeah, you definitely hit on something that is really important to me when, when I go to gyms, I’ve been to commercial gyms enough in the last few years and the culture that I feel like the, the environment is one of judgment. And where that comes from is actually if you are someone who goes to a commercial gym, this is a generalization. But you’re probably be going because you’re trying to fix something that you don’t like about yourself.

0:52:51 Trevor Hash: So when you come from a place like that where you are, you’re there because you judge yourself, that gets projected outwards and you start judging everyone else too. And like whether you know it or not, you’ll look at someone else and say, oh, you know, well, they have the, you know, they have this attribute that like I don’t like and blah, blah, blah. Whereas if you come from a place with your fitness of I love myself enough that I’m gonna do this for myself, that gets projected outwards and then you start to love everyone else and like just, just be kind and accepting and like encouraging of everyone else. You’re like, and then that makes you a better person and it makes the world better.

0:53:38 Trevor Hash: And now we’re changing the world.

0:53:41 Roland Pankewich: I love it. Just a small thing, just a little thing changing the world. But yeah, you know, the, it starts with one, it starts with one person’s intention and, and one person’s intention can be a powerful thing when more and more people catch the vibe. Right? Because that’s I guess, the manifestation of the butterfly effect. Thank you for that. I think people needed to hear that because not only do we sit in judgment, oftentimes we sit in comparison. And there’s no benefit to comparing yourself to anyone but a different version of you.

0:54:12 Roland Pankewich: And if you can do that always in a way of, I guess, you know, loving compassion and acceptance of where you are on your journey, sometimes you’re going to have lower amounts of stress in life and you’ll be able to push it. Sometimes you’re going to be super busy and you’re going to have to regress. It doesn’t mean anything as it defines you. It really doesn’t. It’s just you appropriately responding to the increase or decreasing capacity.

0:54:35 Roland Pankewich: Because we have to remember this is about health.

0:54:38 Trevor Hash: Yeah.

0:54:38 Roland Pankewich: About trophies. The trophy is you get to do this for as long as you can. And if you have great grandkids, you can challenge. Yeah, you can challenge a 40 yard race you might not win, but at least, at least you’re gonna participate.

0:54:52 Trevor Hash: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I’d even, I would even add something to what you said too. So. So comparison. I actually see this a lot because I work with usually people in their 40s. Ish. I can’t tell you how many people say, oh, well, I used to be able to do this and I’d like to get back to being able to do that. And if you always hold that comparison in your mind to yourself when you were like 20 years old, you’re never going to be 20 again.

0:55:24 Trevor Hash: Like, throw that out. Let’s start from where we are right now. You’ll be far happier. Like, and even I think this is, this is maybe more philosophical in that what, what you’re proposing is you want to go backwards. No, no, no. I want to move forwards. What does the future. You look like, it’s different than 20 year old you. Like, where are we going? I think that’s more important than where you came from.

0:55:54 Roland Pankewich: Brilliant. Because it also ties in with someone on a health journey where touching onto your story of what happened to you or all the struggles that you have gone through also limits your capacity to grow, heal and change. Because if you keep telling yourself the same story of the past trauma, you keep it alive every time you speak about it. You don’t want to marginalize anything. But I think it’s a really important perspective that I work with a lot of my clients on. It’s okay, we have to frame the reality that you want to experience, but you also have to be very mindful of what you say to yourself, what you impose upon yourself, and how you unconsciously relate to yourself and the world around you, because that does generate the manifestation of what you experience.

0:56:36 Roland Pankewich: Someone can debate me. I’m unfortunate, I’m unfortunate to say you’re

0:56:40 Trevor Hash: probably gonna be me exactly.

0:56:43 Roland Pankewich: Because you’re just gonna rationalize not getting better. So I think that’s a wonderful, wonderful thing to add into that. I mean, I could do this with you for another three, four hours, but I’m sure I want to respect your time on this. So, Trevor, I know that you have a bunch of places that people can find you. I know you guys have, you and your brother have programs that people can jump onto. You have your coaching program or platform.

0:57:07 Roland Pankewich: Sometimes you have these wicked downloads of these things that people can download for free and kind of get a little flavor or a sense. Where can people find more about you in terms of. Of wanting to change the culture that you’re putting out here? If they want to adopt that.

0:57:22 Trevor Hash: Yeah, yeah. So I’d say first and foremost, like everything we’ve talked about has been a little bit philosophical. If you’re looking for practical, please just go to our YouTube channel, Strength side. Like there, there is a catalog of 12 years of videos on there. Don’t scroll back all the way to 12 years, please, like start maybe three or four years ago at the most. And. But, but there’s so much practical stuff you can do on there. And we like that is our goal is to make things as digestible and practical as we can so that people just have stuff that they can do that we think are.

0:58:03 Trevor Hash: Yeah, we think are better than what you would do if you went to a gym and just started doing everything that people do at gyms. So there’s tons of stuff on there. Follow alongs, you know, different workouts that like find something you resonate with. There’s some weird stuff on there. We like to crawl on the ground, you know, we like to do all kinds of stuff. You don’t. Maybe you would end up liking that. Give it a try, you know, and I think that’s, that’s a big thing is like have a curiosity when you approach your movement and fitness. Like I think that’s like a big thing that we don’t do at all in movement is just be care. A little bit curious.

0:58:37 Trevor Hash: So yeah, I don’t know, be curious. Go on there, try something weird. But you can also find me at. My website isjust trevor hash.com and I have an Instagram I don’t use it that much but I think it’s the Trevor hash if you want to check out some of the stuff I do and yeah, I don’t know, I think that’s it.

0:58:57 Roland Pankewich: I mean I would highly encourage everyone to go watch the videos. Every Thursday is a release if I’m correct. So a new thing I try to. Yeah. You know, circumstances in life. Your brother both have young kids as you said, so capacity can be slightly reduced sometimes. But yeah, the, the follow alongs are great if people want to start just with a basic flavor of what you guys do. There are some 15, 10, 20 minute follow along videos.

0:59:24 Roland Pankewich: Throw it up on, on the TV, grab a mat and just get down on the floor and have fun with what they got, what these guys do. And it’s also very inspirational because they explain the what, the why, the how. So if you are on your fitness journey and you are wanting to do it for your health or you have the inclination that something about going to the gym and doing these basic high intensity things no longer resonate with you, I hope everyone you enjoyed this episode.

0:59:52 Roland Pankewich: I thoroughly did. I’ve been smiling the whole time. My face. But that’s what we do. Trevor, I want to thank you so much for dedicating your time, your wisdom, your expertise. Why Sajor becoming my friend.

1:00:06 Trevor Hash: Thanks so much.

1:00:07 Roland Pankewich: Why? Stage of fitness. Yeah, you make it so accessible and so not intimidating for people. So I know that everyone’s going to resonate with this. And for all you who listen, thank you so much for the continued support of the channel and the process. We couldn’t do this without you. We appreciate it and we will see you next time on the following your gut podcast. Take care everyone.