An Eye Doctor's Guide to Dry Eyes, Makeup & Lash Serums

Episode Summary

In this insightful interview, Dr. Kim Riorden, an optometrist and creator of Ev'r Beauty Cosmetics, shares her expertise on eye health, dry eyes, and safe beauty practices. Discover practical tips on makeup application, ingredients to avoid, and how to maintain healthy, youthful eyes while embracing beauty at any age.

Key Topics

- Dry eye signs and symptoms
- Proper makeup application for eye health
- Ingredients to avoid in cosmetics
- Impact of eyelash extensions and lash tints
- Preventing and managing blepharitis
- Safe practices for eyelash extensions and permanent makeup

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Dr. Kim Rearden and Ever Beauty Cosmetics
03:01 The Journey to Becoming a Dry Eye Specialist
05:50 The Birth of Ever Beauty Cosmetics
08:58 Understanding Dry Eyes and Its Symptoms
12:02 Makeup Application Tips for Healthy Eyes
15:12 Ingredients to Avoid in Eye Makeup
17:47 The Pros and Cons of Lash Extensions
20:57 Demodex Mites and Eye Health
23:57 Final Thoughts on Eye Makeup and Health
25:30 Understanding Prostaglandin Analogues in Eye Care
27:45 The Risks of Eyeliner Tattooing
29:27 Daily Habits for Eye Health
34:05 Misconceptions About Aging Eyes
36:07 The Emotional Impact of Aging and Beauty
38:10 The Rise of Cosmetic Procedures
42:21 Navigating Makeup Choices for Younger Generations
48:38 Introducing Ever Beauty Cosmetics

 resources

Ev'r Beauty Cosmetics - https://evrbeautycosmetics.com/
Florida Eye Specialists - https://www.floridaeyespecialists.com/

Disclaimer

Breast Intentions is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content shared on this podcast is not a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Any views or opinions expressed by the hosts and guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of any affiliated organizations. Always consult with a qualified healthcare provider for medical advice or concerns.

Resources & Mentions:

• Find Dr Riordan on Instagram (@florida_eye_specialists @evrbeautycosmetics) 

• Follow us on Instagram and Facebook (@breastintentionspodcast ) 

Connect With Us: Have a topic or guest suggestion? Email us at breastintentionspodcast@gmail.com 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Mascara's probably the most difficult one to come up with. Of course, I have to go with the most difficult first. But it's the number one product, you know, that women ask for. And most women don't want to leave the house without wearing their mascara. So finding, you know, something that is clean yet comfortable. But you can have the the cleanest formula and you think it's great, but if it doesn't wear well, people aren't gonna wear it, right? They're still gonna go back to what they like. So you need performance on top of that. So that's another reason it took so long, you know, almost four years, before four years in July since I started the process. But finding that right formula that wasn't irritating, removed easily, but it wears well.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

Welcome to Bretions, the podcast where we take off the bra of expectations and dive into honest, empowering conversations. We're your hosts, Snadeen and Cynthia, two Canadian girls who swapped snow boots for flip-flups in the Cayman Islands. This is your space to feel seen, supported, and a little less alone. So grab a cup of coffee or a glass of champagne, get ready for your weekly handful of truth, wellness, and empowerment. Welcome back to Breast Intentions. Our next guest is Dr. Kimberly Reardon, an eye care expert who's passionate about helping people not only see their best, but look and feel their best too. As the founder of Dab Cosmetics and creator of Ever Beauty Mascara, she's bringing eye health to the beauty industry in a whole new way.

SPEAKER_03 1:29

So in today's episode, we have Dr. Kim Rearden. Welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. Thanks for coming on. Now, you are an optometrist based in Florida, and you are also the owner and the creator of Ever Beauty Cosmetics.

SPEAKER_02 1:46

Correct.

SPEAKER_03 1:46

Very exciting. Once when we had Dr. Choxie on the podcast a couple weeks ago, he had told us about you, and we were like, okay, we definitely need to talk to her because a lot of people do talk about like the dry eyes, and we'll get into that a little bit more as well. Um, but you've basically created um a cosmetic line, an eye line for people who um suffer with dry eyes and probably a number of other eye issues. So if you wouldn't mind giving our listeners a little bit of an intro on how you became an optometrist and what led you into the Ever Beauty Cosmetics line.

SPEAKER_02 2:28

Yeah, so I've been a practicing optometrist. I finished my residency in 2010. Um, not shortly thereafter in 2013, I started working with Dr. Choxie, and he was doing a lot with dry eyes. And he asked, is this something you're interested in as well? And I was like, Yes. So it was a good partnership because he's a surgeon, so I helped kind of get those patients ready for surgery and then kind of help them take care of the eyes after surgery. So it was a good working relationship. And so that's when I really started really paying attention to dry eyes and really focusing on that. And it kind of organically grew to where now locally I'm kind of the local dry eye specialist because it's it's not all that I do, but it's a lot of what I do, and it dry eyes plays a part in kind of everything that we do in eye care, from you know, making sure you have an accurate glasses prescription to preparing you for surgery. So there's it's it's just in everything that we do, and I just took it and ran with it, and um it's really became my passion.

SPEAKER_03 3:30

All right, and he was saying that you had the um dry eye clinic that's there, yes. Yes, okay.

SPEAKER_02 3:37

Yep, yep. So we've got a dry eye clinic and yep.

SPEAKER_03 3:40

Okay. Out of curiosity, how many um clients are men versus women?

SPEAKER_02 3:47

So when it comes to dry eyes, majority are female. Okay. And statistically, it's about 70%. Okay. But surprisingly, I do see a lot of male patients with dry eyes as well. So it's not just women, but it is it leans more towards us.

SPEAKER_01 4:02

Are the rate age range, is it a wide age range or or is it mostly people kind of in midlife?

SPEAKER_02 4:10

So that's a good question because dry eyes can affect people of all ages. I will say it is more common as we get older. Um, and especially women in menopause, we see a big shift there. Um, but thanks to being on the computers all the time, I'm seeing younger and younger patients. Um, and some because of cosmetics. I had one not too long ago. She was a young tween and you know, not properly wearing eye makeup and and end up having problems. So um it's really all ages, but it is more common the older we get, and again, more common in females.

SPEAKER_01 4:48

Right. And I guess like we weren't wearing the makeup as as much or the products at such a young age as as I think a lot of them are now. So that's interesting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:00

Tell us a little bit about Everbeauty as well. Like, how did that start and how did that come along?

SPEAKER_02 5:07

So um it's been a long process. Actually, opened an LLC back in 2022 after talking with my family because I was telling them all the things that I do at at work, and I get this recurring theme of talking about cosmetics with women. I'm like, I don't have a great option for them. So I was like, you know what? There's not a great option, so why don't I create one? And I just kind of took the idea and ran with it, and I it's I've learned a lot along the way, but that just kind of organically grew because there was a problem and I'm trying to help find a solution for it. Um, and I just took a big old leap of faith and said, I'm just I don't know anything about starting business, but here I go. So I've learned a lot along the process and a lot of research to find that right manufacturer to work with to come up with my products. Um and, you know, mascara is probably the most difficult one to come up with. Of course, I have to go with the most difficult first. Um, but it's the number one product, you know, that women ask for. And most women don't want to leave the house without wearing their mascara. So finding, you know, something that is clean yet comfortable. But you can have the the cleanest formula and you think it's great, but if it doesn't wear well, people aren't gonna wear it, right? They're still gonna go back to what they like. So you need performance on top of that. So that's another reason it took so long, you know, almost four years, before four years in July since I started the process. But finding that right formula that wasn't irritating, removed easily, but it wears well.

SPEAKER_03 6:41

So it was it was difficult, but here we are. Good for you. We're gonna get into many questions around um eyes and beauty and makeup and that kind of thing as we start to go along. But one of the things when you and I were talking earlier was um what prompted you to also get into the beauty line was you had a lot of your patients that were being told, well, just don't wear makeup, right? Yep. Is that how you it kind of prompted?

SPEAKER_02 7:10

Yep, exactly. And uh I've had many women say I've had other asked other doctors what can what brands can I wear? What do you recommend? And a lot of them kind of were dismissive, oh well, just don't wear it, you don't need it, you know. Well, we know we don't need it, but we want it. So, you know, that didn't sit right with me. You know, I want to try to help find a solution for women who they need it, because that is a need, you know, feeling looking beautiful, wanting to feel beautiful, that is a need. And you know, it I think it's important that we understand that as doctors, that we may not think the patient needs it, but they want it, and it's still valid.

SPEAKER_03 7:48

And I think what will end up happening in those situations is even if a doctor does tell a woman um to just not wear makeup, you're gonna wear makeup. Yeah, you're gonna do it and then you're gonna keep on suffering, and then you're probably gonna spend a lot of money going through a number of different products to try and find something that works. So good on you for actually taking it a couple of things.

SPEAKER_02 8:10

You might as well give them a safe option.

SPEAKER_03 8:12

Exactly. Yeah. Um, now one of the things we have talked to Dr. Choxie about this, but we wouldn't mind hearing it from you as well. Is for women who are listening who may not even realize that they have dry eyes, what are some subtle signs or symptoms that they might be overlooking?

SPEAKER_02 8:29

So I'd say one of the most common, you know, we think dry eyes, we think it's a feeling. Sometimes your eyes feel fine and it's a vision problem. I see that quite often where people will say, you know, oh my eyes feel fine. I just can't see. I have to like I'm constantly blinking, and you know, it's clear for a little bit, and then it gets blurry, and some days it's fine, and then some days I really just don't feel like I see well. And that's because they're their tear film constantly in flux and changing, and it can't keep up. And um, so it's manifesting through their vision and not necessarily how they feel. So that's probably the number one that people don't associate. The number two that I hear a lot is um tearing. So people will come in. Well, no, no, no, I don't have dry eyes. My eyes aren't dry, they're tearing, they're there's they're too wet. That they can't possibly be a dry eye problem. When in fact, nine times out of ten, it's a dry eye problem.

SPEAKER_03 9:22

Yeah, and that was something that um we were talking about on the last episode. And I don't think that I would have ever thought that dry eyes was when you had teary eyes. No, wouldn't have known. So let's go into makeup because I think that there's a lot of us that are very interested in learning a little bit more about this. Um, the the right away, sorry, the right way to apply eyeliner that is healthy for your eyes, especially for women over 40. What is the best way to apply eyeliner?

SPEAKER_02 9:56

So your eyeliner for your upper lids should be above your lashes, not below. And for your under eye, it should be under the lashes. You don't want it to be above, right?

SPEAKER_03 10:08

So not in that little um like I did today. Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_02 10:14

We just did it today. I know where this will be the next topic, I'm sure, because it cleans into it, but the tight lining um when you're putting it on what we call the lid margin, so when your eyelids close, yeah, where they open, or oil little oil glands open up right there, right? So when you're taking eyeliner and you're putting it right over, and a lot of them have waxes in it, that's how they keep it to stay in place. Now you're taking that waxy residue and just putting it right over the openings of those glands. Now that's not allowing those oils to reach the surface. So every time you blink, little amounts of oil are getting expressed into your tear film. That oil is important because it keeps the bulk of your tears from just evaporating away from the surface. Well, if you're caking on makeup right there, those oils aren't going to get to the surface. You could be inducing your own dry eye because you're not allowing the natural function to occur. The second thing that's an issue with it, when you block that, now you can block those oils to the point where they just build, build, build. What happens? You get a sty. And if your makeup is contaminated, you can get an infection. So there's multiple reasons. We've really I see tight lining, it's like nails on a chalkboard for me. I know all the damage that it can cause. So do yourself a favor and don't put it over the tops of those oil glands or on that lid margin.

SPEAKER_03 11:39

So is that what tight lining is? I I've never heard that word.

SPEAKER_02 11:43

So yeah, so when women pull down and they take it and they're like penciling right over, and it's so they like that shelf of the eyelid colored, that's right where those oil glands. So you want to go underneath the lashes so you stay away from that, those openings of those oil glands.

unknown 12:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:01

It was like really popular years ago, and then it was like, don't do that. It's like, no, that's so like old school. And then now recently, recently it's become super popular again to Tightline. And I was like, yes, I love it. Finally, I'm back in back in the trends. You're cool. And now Kim's telling me, don't do that.

SPEAKER_03 12:25

Okay. Avoid it if you can. Now, what about for people? I'm just like gonna go out on a limb here. Uh, what about for people who don't suffer with eye issues? Can they continue to keep on doing it?

SPEAKER_02 12:39

So the even if you don't have dry eyes, I don't, I don't like it. Because every time you blink, that stuff gets into your tear film too, and it migrates. So you may not have a problem now, but you keep continuing to do it over time, you're more than likely going to start having problems from it. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 12:59

Okay. So just don't do it.

SPEAKER_01 13:01

Okay. We might we might have to wean ourselves off of it.

unknown 13:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:06

Support group.

SPEAKER_03 13:10

So now with um with age, and actually, no matter if you are like a woman, let's say midlife or not, um, what do we need to look for in ingredients that we like really should be avoiding when it comes to our eye makeup?

SPEAKER_02 13:28

So a lot of the culprits that can cause irritation are different types of preservatives. But we need preservatives. Preserves are important because we don't want to get an infection from our eye makeup, so we have to have them. But there are some if you do have already sensitive eyes, dry eyes, you want to try to avoid. You may have heard of parabens, parabens are something we try to keep out of eye makeup just because they can be more irritating. Um, and not to mention some other issues, but I won't go over those right now. Um, and then there's also ingredients that are formaldehyde-releasing donors. We don't really want that in our cosmetics, but unfortunately, some of them will put them in as a preservative. Um, so looking for healthier, softer preservative systems that are yet still strong enough to keep away uh the microbes. So um paying attention and keeping those out. Another one um or ingredient, but it's not necessarily cosmetic, but as our skincare routine, and talking about retinols. So they're all forms of vitamin A, and in certain forms of vitamin A, we need it. We need it to survive, we need our eyes to be healthy. We can have problems if we don't have enough vitamin A. But there's different forms of it, different strengths and weaknesses, so to speak, um, of those formulas. So very weak retinols may be okay and not pose much issues, but when you have stronger forms like tretinoin or even stronger, you may have heard an old medication, Accutane, that used to get prescribed for um acne, which did a great job. The problem is it destroys the oil glands that we were talking about earlier. And if we're losing oil glands, we can end up with really severe dry eyes. So I would say caution in, especially if you have already have dry eyes, sensitive eyes, I would just kind of avoid any kind of strong retinol. Um, you can ask some specialists, say, oh, as long as you don't use it in this ocular region, it's okay. Um, other people say no, because it can still it's transdormal, it can just kind of still migrate and get to that area where the glands are. So I think if it's a weaker formula or form of retinol, it's probably gonna be okay. I wouldn't put it right on my eyelids, um, but keeping it away. But where are we usually putting that in that crow's feed area, right? That's usually where we're using it. Um that's a that's something that I would caution is looking at the strength of what type of retinol, and if it's a strong one, I would avoid it altogether if you do have dry eyes or sensitive eyes because you just don't want to make it worse.

SPEAKER_01 16:06

Because we're not putting it, we're not putting it directly on our eyes, but we are putting it potentially close enough that it could or it could migrate.

SPEAKER_02 16:16

Or you think you put it on right before bag and you lay on your pillow, and what happens is gonna end up.

SPEAKER_03 16:21

Yeah, and you just you rub your eyes and not really realize what it is that you're doing. Um going back to like mascara eyeliner and that kind of thing, um let's just have you throw someone under the bus, but are there what's like a brand that you just know right off the hop is like a no, hard no?

SPEAKER_02 16:45

Um, that's a good question. I don't know if there's necessarily a brand that I would throw under the bus. Um it's just more you gotta be in tune with looking at ingredients.

SPEAKER_03 16:56

Because um I I don't know if I've even looked, but either. If we bought makeup, would it actually say like paraben free on it?

SPEAKER_02 17:04

Sometimes it'll be it'll be on there, so it'll say, you know, free of parabens. Um and it's usually it usually is. It's it's a way to try to market it as more of a clean formula. So a lot of times it'll say paraben free or free of harsh chemicals, things like that. Um, so yeah, I don't necessarily have a brand I would throw under the bus. I would just say it's really um looking at what you're using. And there's um websites, um the environmental working group has um what's the name of it? Oh, it's probably like that that app Yucca. Yeah, exactly. So you can use these apps um where you can check the it'll tell you if that certain product is good or if it's not or if it has products in it that you should avoid. Right, right. Those are super helpful.

SPEAKER_03 17:54

Yeah, yeah. If you could actually read the writing on I know take a photo of it and write larger, zoom in.

SPEAKER_01 18:04

I might have done that before.

SPEAKER_03 18:06

Yep. Okay, so my last question for you is um eyelash extensions and your thoughts on it.

SPEAKER_02 18:18

Lashes, lashes are all the rage, right? And lash extensions. My professional recommendation would be if you're thinking about getting them, ask your eye doctor. Are my eyes healthy enough to do them? How do my eyelashes look? There's a common condition called blepharitis. Blepharitis is where we get kind of bacterial buildup along the base of the eyelashes. We can have what are called demodex, which are little mites that live in the lids and lashes. So I would want to know are my lids healthy enough? Are they clean? Can I wear them? That's start because you don't want to put lash extensions if you already have bad blephritis. You really want to clean that up and treat it first. Even though we can't cure it, there's a lot of things we can do to get the lids cleaner and in a better state. Um, and then if you are wearing lash extensions, making sure that you're taking care of them properly and cleaning them daily. I that's a big thing that I see is you know, these women spend a lot of money and they they were afraid to touch them, they don't want them to fall out any sooner. You really have to be cleaning them every day. And I've seen women who do a great job of keeping their lashes clean and they look great under the microscope and they do well with them. But if not and you're not taking care of it, you're just increasing your risk of blepyritis or blephyritis flaring up or getting an eye infection or getting sty. So really being mindful of just properly taking care of them like you should.

SPEAKER_03 19:49

Okay. So again, coming from the standpoint of you're not wanting to just come right out of the hop and just say, you know, don't wear lash extensions because you're very much of the can still be a good option.

SPEAKER_02 20:02

Um but if obviously if you get them put on and if you have any, you they can cause allergic reactions or contact dermatitis and things like that. So obviously, if you get them put on and your eyes are red or irritated or having symptoms, just have them removed and then know that you probably can't do them because you may be sensitive to the glues that they use. But the normal bacteria along the lids and those Demodex mites that I mentioned, they love foreign objects like glue. And so just being mindful that can that can escalate if you don't already have it under control.

SPEAKER_01 20:33

So we might have just the blepharitis or the mites on our eye on our eyelashes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:42

Can the optometrist tell us if they saw that?

SPEAKER_02 20:46

You well, they should. Hopefully, they'll tell you if they see them. Um, I know I treat blepheritis on a daily basis and those Demodex mites. There was a new FDA-approved medication that came out for it, and it works beautifully. Um, and it can help clear it up. But yeah, I mean, people get a little freaked out when I tell them that they have Demidex mites, um, but they're very common. Really? Um we don't know why some people have them and some people don't. Very common when you have rosacea, demidex and rosacea kind of go hand in hand as well. So um it we can tell if you have them, we can see signs of it on the slit lamp exam. How would we see like little creepy crawlies? I know, right?

SPEAKER_00 21:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:29

Well, you may have them and not know. Okay, because you may be asymptomatic and have them.

SPEAKER_01 21:33

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_02 21:34

But typically when they start to cause symptoms, it's usually itchy eyelids. And then so people will come into me and say, My eyes itchy. My first question will be Well, is it your whole eye that feels itching? You're kind of doing that number, or you're rubbing the eyes, or are you kind of going right along your lashes or kind of pulling at your lashes? And it's the pulling at the lashes or rubbing the lash line that's usually the demodex blepharitis. Uh huh. Usually you get wake up. A little bit of crusting in the mornings. Um, it's overall irritation. So you get some crusting in the mornings, you got the itchy eyelids, you more than likely have demodex. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 22:11

Well, that's interesting.

SPEAKER_02 22:13

I use the analogy. I tell my patients, you know, it's just like our gut health, you know, we've got microbes all over us and inside of us, and it's we all live together in harmony, but sometimes things get a little out of back balance. So that sounds like it's nothing that you've caught, or like it's not like you're hygienic. It can be normal. We just need to get it back into normal balance. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 22:33

All right.

unknown 22:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

Uh so back to the the lash extensions and the la uh fake lashes. How can the glue and the adhesives affect eye health and tear glands and all of that over time, I'm assuming? Like a one-off wouldn't probably matter, but if you continue, if you did that every day.

SPEAKER_02 22:53

Yeah, if you're wearing them just here and there, I think it's probably fine as long as you're you know removing them and washing the lids and all of that. And that's a good question. As far as over time, the biggest thing I see of women that just don't want to get rid of them is usually that buildup of that bluffaritis. And and it's if eventually they'll have to break down and have them removed so we can clean it back up and get them back under control.

SPEAKER_03 23:17

Yeah. I'm gonna guess the glue like plugs up all of those little oil glands.

SPEAKER_02 23:23

Yeah, well the glue is usually above, so it's not usually where the oil glands are at. It's usually at the base of the eyelashes. Yeah, I guess so. Yeah, yeah. So usually hopefully it isn't migrating and going over the mybomian glands, because that wouldn't be good.

SPEAKER_03 23:36

So what's your thoughts on strips versus lash extensions then?

SPEAKER_02 23:41

For like the magnetic strips?

SPEAKER_03 23:44

Or the ones that you would actually in and do them individually. Um so the eyelash extensions where they'll like glue them on individually, but then like the strip that you can just like put the glue on and then just stick it above like the eyelashes. Do you think one's better than the other?

SPEAKER_02 24:03

I don't know. They're both using glue. I think the again that proper thing is maintaining that you know the maintenance and the cleaning more than anything. I don't know if one glue may be better than the other, but in principle, I feel like they're pretty similar.

SPEAKER_03 24:17

And and then the magnetic, obviously, no glue with those. I don't I I think. Um, but I think that I've seen like videos where the magnetic goes under the lashes instead of over the top. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:32

And it has to be wherever you're applying that, you know, some have that magnetic pencil and you draw it on. Um as long as you're above, I would say what that is. I've also seen ones where they sandwich, so you have magnet on each and just note that probably the best option, as long as it's not too heavy and pulling on your lashes and pulling them out and causing damage from that way.

SPEAKER_00 24:53

Right.

SPEAKER_02 24:55

Okay, okay. Along with the lashes, I don't know if you guys have been hearing people talk about lash tints and perms and lips, lash lips. I'm not a fan of either of those either. The chemicals that you have to use to perform it, I just don't think are safe to be that close to the eye. So I would avoid it. I could imagine. Yeah, I could imagine it just burns. I know you think of like I remember when I was younger, my mom gave me a perm, and I think of those chemicals, my eyes are on my head, you know, it's on my eyelids. So I'd avoid that. Yeah. I agree. Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_01 25:29

Would that be a similar thought for lash growth serums? So that because I've seen a lot of people using those as well.

SPEAKER_02 25:37

So lash growth serums, you really got to pay attention to what is in them. Um, years ago, a product came out called Latisse. Um, and basically, that company just rebranded a glaucoma medication. We use that active ingredient, and we still use it to this day because it works really great as a glaucoma agent to help lower the eye pressures. But that active ingredient is it's what's called a prostaglandin analog. Prostiglandin analogs are known to be very pro-inflammatory, so they're going to bring more inflammation to the surface of the eyes and to the eyelids. So when you're using something with a prostaglandin, the risks are getting your eyelids can become red, your eyes can become red. Um, you can also have increased risk of mybomial gland dysfunction, which can lead to more styles and overall dry eye symptoms. The other thing that people don't realize too is it can have an effect with the orbital fat around the eyes. So people get this that sunken eye appearance because the prostaglandin can cause that fat to atrophy. Um, and so those are some of the side effects of prostaglandins that aren't talked about. And over-the-counter products, they don't have to tell you that that's in there. Um and so make sure it doesn't have an ingredient with a prosta, it'll be it'd be somewhere in the name, but P-R-O-S T, it's probably a prostaglandin. I would avoid that. There are other ones on the market that are free of prostaglandins and have other ingredients that are helpful with lash growth and overall health of the lashes. Um, that those are the ones I would use and I would avoid latisse or anything with a prostaglandin in it. And if you aren't sure, you know, get on ChatGPT or Google it to see if it has a prostaglandin in it and just avoid those because those are the ones that will cause a lot of problems.

SPEAKER_01 27:27

All right, so now permanent makeup, like eyeliner tattooing, uh, has become more and more popular uh lately. What should we know? Are there things that we should know or consider before doing a procedure like this?

SPEAKER_02 27:43

Yes, so eyeliner tattoo or tattoo eyeliner, it's you know, some people will say, well, it's better than someone putting cosmetics on every day and introducing that, those irritants on a daily basis. So it may be better for dry eyes, but on the flip side of that coin, you're taking a needle onto very, very thin skin. And what is just beneath there are those oil glands we keep talking about and referencing, and they're so vitally important for the health a healthy tear film. And so if you are someone who already maybe has some dry eyes or sensitive eyes or any irritation, I would avoid it completely and I would not get tattoo eyeliner because you don't want to risk scarring or um worse mybomial gland dysfunctioning, um, worse dry eyes. Uh, and two, you know, just make sure you don't have a reaction to it because you know, some people can have a reaction to the dyes and the tattoo, and that now you have it right on your eyelid. So difficult place to try to remove it if you needed to. Oh, I can't imagine. But personal opinion, I don't know, I don't recommend it.

SPEAKER_01 28:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:56

Get a good pencil eyeliner that you remove daily and safer.

SPEAKER_03 29:01

Right. Yeah. Just take that.

SPEAKER_01 29:03

No, it's right, your face is right there. And also, I can't imagine how much that would hurt. I have tattoos, so I know how much that hurts.

SPEAKER_00 29:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:11

So I don't think I would want to be putting that anywhere near my eye. Um, and then risking all of these other things on top of it. All right. What daily habits can women adopt to protect their eye health while still enjoying makeup and beauty routines?

SPEAKER_02 29:26

So making sure you're removing your makeup daily. I think that's a big one. Um, some people just kind of, oh, I'm tired, they just go to sleep and don't remove it. But making sure it is a daily routine to take off all makeup. Doing lid scrubs daily. Um, lid scrubs isn't really scrubbing, it's just making sure we're cleaning the lids and lashes. And there's a lot of good products over the counter. I like ones that contain hypochlorous acid, so there's a number of products like that, and it's a spray cleanser. So after you finish, you know, removing your eye makeup, you can spray that on a cotton pad or just directly on the eyelids. I I use it myself. I spray it on a cotton pad clothing, just kind of gently wipe and clean the lids and lashes and do that one once or twice a day just to keep the lids clean.

SPEAKER_01 30:08

That's great. I've seen those are becoming more and more popular as well, the hypochlorous acid sprays. Um I'm that's good to know. Never heard of it. I yeah, I've heard of it, but I was like, I don't know if I need that. But maybe it's something that that I will be incorporating after today. Can you use it over lash extensions?

SPEAKER_02 30:29

Yeah, yeah. Oh, you can't do it.

SPEAKER_01 30:31

It's good for other things too, right?

SPEAKER_02 30:33

It's not, I mean it's used in I've heard.

SPEAKER_01 30:36

Yeah, that it's just good for all over.

SPEAKER_02 30:39

Yes. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 30:40

Yeah, but that's great.

SPEAKER_02 30:42

And then also to that point, just reminders of you know, don't share cosmetics. You know, we don't want to share our mascara with anybody, including family. And my daughter's 12, and mom, can I wear your mascara? No, absolutely not. We'll get you your own bottle of mascara and you will use it and you don't share it. Um, so simple tips like that. And then another thing that I think gets overlooked, and we're probably all guilty, even us three sitting here, but is are we throwing out our cosmetics when we should? So, what is recommended, and I'll go over that real quick. Yes, mascara. Well, yes, first of all, all products will have that PAO label. The the period after opening looks like a little jar open and may have 6M, 12M, 24M. That's telling you, okay, this is this was tested and the preservative system will hold up, and after you open it, you should throw it out by that point, right? Well, when we're talking about things we're using near the eyes, we're more strict, um, especially if you already have dry eyes or sensitive eyes. So for mascara, for instance, my mascara um has where it's good up to six months after you open it, because that's what the testing shows. However, we don't tell you to throw it out in six months, we tell you to throw it out in three months. So once you start using that mascara and it's touched the lashes, you really should throw it out after 90 days or three months. Um, when it comes to eyeliners, you know, we're talking about eyeliners, depending on the type of eyeliner. If it's a liquid or a gel, typically three to six months you should throw it out. But if you have dry eyes, closer to three months. If it's a pencil eyeliner, because you can sharpen it, so I love pencil eyeliners for that reason, can sharpen away that bacteria, that you can use for 12 to 24 months. Again, if you have dry eyes, you should throw it out in 12. Um, eyeshadow, if you have powdered eyeshadows, it's 12 to 24 months. But if it's a liquid, um liquids are more uh I wrote it down so I wouldn't forget. Uh cream base and liquid are six to twelve months. But again, if you have dry eyes, it would more be more towards the six months. So making sure that you're throwing them out when you should and not holding on to those cosmetics um longer than they're they're meant to be.

SPEAKER_01 33:05

It's so you forget, right? Like, oh, when did I open this? Oh, I think it was only a couple months ago. Well, it's like six months ago. You forget. But also on that topic, makeup brushes. Yes. Making and sponges and stuff that we're reusing.

SPEAKER_02 33:20

Yes, making sure you're washing those or changing them out, right? If you got good brushes, wash them on a regular basis. Don't wait and let that accumulate. So rule thumb with any of those cosmetics. If it's a liquid base or has water in it, you gotta be more mindful than if you have something that's like a powder base.

SPEAKER_01 33:38

I got some homework to do. As an eye doctor, what's the biggest misconception women have about aging eyes and beauty?

SPEAKER_02 33:50

Um, I've got a few. Uh one that kind of looking younger is only about like the skin, your face and and the texture of the skin. It's your eyes as well. So when your eyes are white and your tear film is the way it should be, and your eyelids are comfortable and everything's working, your eyes look brighter and you look more alert. When your eyes get dry and irritated, and there, you know, things are flaring up, you look more the eyes get red, you just look more tired and run down. So, you know, having healthy eyes can be a step to make you look younger and more vibrant, right? Um, another thing would would be you know, beauty products can't affect eye health. And I think we've done a good job of talking about that today, that it absolutely can. And so if you're having eye irritation, that should be one of the first things that you you look at is you know, kind of what's in my what's in my cosmetics, could I be making this problem worse? Um and then lastly, is that you know, eye irritation is just a part of getting older. That is not the case. You know, our eyes should be comfortable the whole time. So not everybody ends up with dry eyes or irritated eyes. So if you're having redness, irritation, you can't wear your contacts as long, you've got end of the day fatigue, you probably have an issue, and you should really should speak up and talk to your eye care provider about what could be going on and how they can help you uh look and feel better.

SPEAKER_01 35:19

There is such an emotional component to all of this, to beauty, to confidence, to aging. How important do you find it for women that come to see you? How important is it that they still feel feminine, polished, and like themselves while navigating, you know, the health changes when when we're going through menopause or perimenopause?

SPEAKER_02 35:40

I think it's it's extreme extremely important, you know, when how we feel about ourselves affects our mental health, and our mental health is just as important as our physical health. So absolutely it's extremely important.

SPEAKER_01 35:54

Which I guess is what led you to to come up with ever beauty.

SPEAKER_02 35:59

Absolutely. You know, I want to be able to not only help women see their best and and look their best, I want them to feel their best all the way around.

SPEAKER_03 36:09

I think as well now, let's just say like COVID times really put people in the spot of like constantly being on Zoom. And you know, obviously we were talking to our phones and stuff like that before that, but I think that there was things really amped up during COVID, um, where we were constantly seeing ourselves on a screen. And I do think that it made a really big impact on women where um from a confident side, where you would see yourself on a daily basis and you'd pick yourself apart, right? And you'd see your eyes. And I remember there is even times where I would be on a call and it's like this, and then I would like kind of raise my eyebrows a little bit just because I could see myself and I'm like, oh my God. Like just trying to think, okay, well, how can I say like this? And it'll flat flatten things out, it'll lift the eyebrows and stuff. And um, it does take a toll on us for sure. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 37:14

Yeah, for sure. And with the messaging in the media, like, you know, you don't want to grow old, growing old is bad, you look ugly, get rid of your wrinkles, get rid of all the things, and blah, blah, blah, more, more, more, less, less, less, whatever it is. So there is huge pressure on women to want to look a certain way.

SPEAKER_03 37:33

Yeah. This wasn't um one of our questions, but um the when you were talking about blepharitis or um but there's uh also a really big uptick right now, or maybe it's just our age, I don't really know. But um, everyone's getting like the upper blef and stuff like that done. It's very, very common. Um and there has been eye doctors that I have talked to where they do also truly believe like that the eyelash extensions are what's kind of causing a bit of the issue because they're so heavy. Um, what are your thoughts around like just the that whole side of things?

SPEAKER_02 38:08

Yeah, I mean that like we were talking about earlier with the magnetic weighting it down, the same thing. Like if they've got those really big long lashes and they're heavy, and they yeah, they can't pull down, change that lid anatomy over time if you're constantly wearing them and never giving the eyes a break. Um, but there's it's funny that you bring that up too. There was actually a study done looking at the length of the eyelashes and how that affects the ocular surface. So when you have really long lashes, it kind of creates this wind tunnel effect and pushes the air back into the eye, and then it actually creates more dry eyes, too. So you also want to be mindful of how you don't want super long lashes that could be just basically fanning the ocular surface and causing more dryness. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:51

Like wearing a fan on your face all the time.

SPEAKER_03 38:58

Too funny.

SPEAKER_02 38:59

But bluff rocks are very common. Yeah, and that that's another thing I just wanted to touch base real quick. Um if you are to think about getting an upper bluff, just make sure your eyes are in good condition as well. And if you do suffer from dry eyes, talking to the surgeon so that they know usually they can be pretty good. You want one that doesn't take too much, you can they can always go back and take a little bit more skin off, but they can't put it back and take it too much. So if you are thinking about having a bluffroplasty and you do already have dry eyes, just to make sure, again, that they're aware of that and that they don't take too much skin that so that your eyes can still be properly closed and function afterwards.

SPEAKER_03 39:37

Who was it that I just saw?

SPEAKER_01 39:40

There's been a few men who recently do not look like they've had an upper bluff and maybe it took a little too much. Like famous men, like Jen X. Oh really? Oh yeah. There's been a few, and I'm like, oh because I was I was like, oh, that's what I need. I need this upper bluff. My like my eyebrow, my eyelid, my what is it called? Eyelids are way, way too heavy. I've noticed they keep just getting heavier and heavier and heavier. And like was recently talking to a friend of mine, and I was like, uh, I don't know anymore. Oh like because if it goes wrong, like it's right there. And like you said, you can't go back and put it back. So I don't know anymore.

SPEAKER_03 40:25

And if they do take, um, like you were saying, if they do take too much skin, your eyes won't fully close. And then it's gonna create more dry eyes. Like when you sleep and stuff like that. Someone just won't. Create more problems. Oh, did they? That's what happened. Yeah, it's happening.

SPEAKER_01 40:40

Oh, like a real person?

SPEAKER_03 40:40

I can't remember.

SPEAKER_01 40:41

Mm-hmm. Yeah. No, I'm thinking like Bradley Cooper. Yeah. Did he get it done? Yeah, well, people are saying he's denying it, I think. But people are like in the people, the gossip people out there are saying that that's what it looks like he got done, and it's it's not looking great. Also Adam Levine, I think.

SPEAKER_03 41:02

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_01 41:02

Anyway, I don't want to spread any more rumors or anything about these. Allegedly, famous people. Allegedly, allegedly. There you go. But yeah, made me made me second have some second thoughts about it.

SPEAKER_02 41:13

But if you're in the hands of a good surgeon and you know they're mindful, it can be a great thing, and they you get really beautiful results. Uh that's usually why I reckon recommend an oculoplastic surgeon. Um, because they're they're trained in both. They they're gonna do the plastic surgery around the eyes, but the ophthalmologists as well, so they're gonna be in tune with the surface of the eye. Oh, that's good to know.

SPEAKER_01 41:37

That's smart, yeah. Because yeah, I've definitely seen some great ones too, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 41:42

Yeah, they can do beautiful work and it looks great and not even look like anything was done and no after effects.

SPEAKER_01 41:49

Yeah. Cool. Okay. All right, we'll put a pin in that. Maybe down the road. All right, so it's safe to say that your mission is to help women to see their best, feel their best, look their best. What would you say to the woman who feels like aging or health changes means she has to give up on things like makeup, say, that that make her feel confident?

SPEAKER_02 42:13

I say don't give up. You know, there's there's hope and there's options out there, and hopefully more and more to come in the future. So, and have those open conversations with your providers. Um you know, not every doctor is gonna ask you about, you know, those things, your cosmetics, or how your eyes feel, or how you feel about yourself. So open up those conversations because if they don't realize it's a problem for you, they're not gonna necessarily bring it up. So have the conversations and don't give up.

SPEAKER_01 42:41

That's good advice.

SPEAKER_02 42:42

And then hop onto your website and or go to Everbeauty.

SPEAKER_01 42:46

Everbeautycosmetics.com. Can you can you tell us about the what products do you have, Kim?

SPEAKER_02 42:52

And what uh so first I guess tell us a little bit about Yeah, Taloncha's just my a mascara as far as the cosmetics. Um, it's a clean formula, it re it's basically like a tubing formula, so it removes really easily with warm water. But I'd say it's kind of more like a hybrid because when I wear it, if I feel like it wears more like a traditional mascara, but it removes super easy with warm water and just gently you even just wipe them with your fingers or uh warm water in a microfiber cloth. And also have some ingredients in there that are healthy for the lashes to try to help support you know lash health. Um, and it performs really well. And it's you know, you can put on as little or as much as you want to get the effect. I'm one of those, I like just a coat or two to just a little bit for me goes a long way. Um, but it is buildable, so if you wanted that more dramatic effect, um and the I do have one other product as well, it's just a moisturizing cream. Um, it's more of a balm, I would say, because it's really thick. Because that was the other thing that women would ask for is what can I use uh just to kind of moisturize the skin? Especially in that crow's feet area, that they don't want any retinol or anything in it that would be, you know, kind of working against them. So that's another thing that I have as well is uh a hydrating moisturizing balm eyelid cream.

SPEAKER_01 44:16

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 44:17

What else do you have down the road? So next up are I would like to get we know we talked a lot about eyeliners, that's another one I want to get in the pipeline, and then also a cream-based um shadow uh because I feel like those are better uh versus uh powder, less migration of things getting in and getting trapped in your tear film and causing more irritation. So those are the other things that I'm looking at bringing on in the future.

SPEAKER_03 44:44

And I have another question as well, because you did mention that you have a 12-year-old daughter. Um, and we had mentioned a little bit earlier in the conversation that you know girls are starting to wear makeup a lot younger, and um, Sephora is doing a really good job of um emptying our bank accounts. Um maybe for a mom or an aunt or anything that um has some younger girls in their in their family, what are some things that you would tell them to like encourage them to do with like the younger generation of girls that are putting on makeup?

SPEAKER_02 45:27

And you know, for instance, my mascara marketing towards, you know, women that have dry eyes or older. However, it can be we don't have why do we have to wait until there's a problem? You know, clean beauty should start, you know, when they start wearing cosmetics, kind of educating them about clean beauty and really kind of steering away from things that could be harmful over time. So just because they're young and don't have any problems yet, kind of treating it like we would now, you know, how how however you're wearing your cosmetics, really teaching your kids, okay, when you start wearing, you gotta make sure you're removing it, you gotta make sure you're throwing it out, like feeling that at a young age, so it's already just second nature. They already know, oh, I've already had this, I gotta toss this, it's been three months. Oh, my mom told me I can't sleep in my mascara, I've got to take it off. So, really, the rules that we're following, we really should be passing down to them.

SPEAKER_03 46:17

Yeah, I guess I remember my mom harping on me and making sure that I washed my face every night, which I don't know if I did, but I do think that there's just so much that there's a lot more out there, obviously. Um, but like how we were talking at the beginning too, that yucca app. And I don't really know if there's um other, I'm sure that there are other apps where you know they could probably even walk into Sephora and just like scan some of their products or go into their bathroom and scan some of their products and or as a a parent, maybe scan some of it and just take a quick look. Because I've even heard of like the the younger girls too, where they're using products that like women 40 or 40 plus are yes, I know.

SPEAKER_02 47:04

My my daughter's pulled things off the shelf and is wants to purchase stuff when we're at Ulta or Sephora. And I look up, I'm like, no, absolutely not. This has retinals, and you don't need any of that. You know, you're 12 years old. That no, put that back. So being mindful and looking over uh what your children are using, um, and just making sure that exactly they're not using things that are meant for you know, 30, 40, 50, you know, things that are safer and don't have those chemicals in it.

SPEAKER_01 47:35

Because they're not looking at what's in it, they're either probably looking at the packaging or looking at they saw something on TikTok and exactly.

SPEAKER_03 47:43

So for any of our listeners um that want to learn a little bit more about your uh cosmetic line, how can they find out a little bit more? Where can they go?

SPEAKER_02 47:55

Um, I've got a website. Um it's uh Ever Beauty, so E V R beautycosmetics.com. Um and that's mainly where I'll be selling it. There'll be a couple of other outlets uh as well, but that'll be the main place.

SPEAKER_03 48:11

Great. Okay. And it's launched. It's launching this month, I believe. Next month, sorry.

SPEAKER_02 48:17

Yes. So mid-June and I should have all the products and ready to go. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 48:22

Oh, perfect. Oh, okay. And for anyone who does have questions for you or does want to come and see you, where can they find you?

SPEAKER_02 48:32

So I am in Jacksonville, Florida. So I practice with a group called Florida iSpecialists. Um, and that's where I see patients. And um yeah. Perfect.

SPEAKER_01 48:44

Okay. Well, Cynthia, any questions? I don't know. I think that's I think we've we've hit everything.

SPEAKER_03 48:52

Yeah, yeah. This has been very good. Very informative.

SPEAKER_01 48:56

Very informative.

SPEAKER_03 48:57

Yes. I need to go and make some changes. I know.

SPEAKER_01 48:59

Got some homework to do both of us.

SPEAKER_02 49:01

Yeah. It's a good talk because there's a lot to talk about when it comes to this.

unknown 49:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:07

And I think a lot that we either, you know, we maybe know, yeah, yeah, I know I need to clean my brushes this often, or I know I need to throw out the but if it's not sort of something I'm actively thinking about, then you know, the day goes on, the day goes, the next day, the next day, and then it's like, oh yeah, yeah, I forgot about that.

SPEAKER_00 49:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:24

Because it's not something that, you know, is in the forefront, in the center of our mind all day, every day. It's just that, you know, in the morning when I put my makeup on, or in the evening when I take my makeup off. But I'm not thinking about it as as clearly as I probably should be. No. And how it can affect a lot, a lot, especially my eyes.

SPEAKER_03 49:44

And how it might actually be linked to some of the eye issues that you have right now. Yeah, exactly. As well. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you, Kim.

SPEAKER_01 49:53

We really appreciate it. Thank you. Thanks for joining us on Best Intentions. We hope you felt seen, supported, and maybe had a few laughs along the way. Don't forget to share, subscribe, rate, and review us. Your support keeps the conversation alive. Follow us on social media for more insights, behind the scenes fun, and updates on future episodes. Got a topic you want us to dive into? We'd love to hear from you. Remember, life's too short for bad bras, toxic relationships, and kale you don't actually like. So until next time, stay bold and keep your best intentions exactly where they belong. Front and center. Now go crush midlife, or at least today's to do list. Cheers!