From Mom to Mother-in-Law | Roles, Relationships, & Change

In episode 3, we are getting into the TEA of a subject that's near and dear to us both - the transition from mom to mother-in-law and navigating those sometimes tricky relationships that come with the title "in-law." We'll take about the emotional journey of becoming a mother-in-law, how daughters-in-law can manage their new familial relationships, as well as tools to use when things get difficult. We share personal experiences, research insights, and general advice to help you navigate these complexities. Tune in as we unravel the dynamics and find out how to turn potential friction into a loving and supportive bond. 

• Intro music by Cymatix
• Graphic by @makariann
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Transcript

0:13

Two. One.. Well, how's your morning going? It's going well. Yeah, I can tell because I live with you right now. Yes, yes, there's that part too. it's, it's so fun. I'm glad we live together again. Yeah, I think it's really gonna help a lot. Yes, in terms of the podcast for sure. And it's nice because it's like I'm living with My friend and with my husband. So it's like the best of both worlds. When I'm tired of my husband, I can just go hang out with Ronnie. Yes. Yes. Same, same, same, same, same. When you need to escape your husband, you just come upstairs to me. Exactly. And the kittens, that's what I love. Yep. Well, no more snow. Didn't last very long. Nope. No sledding. Very sad. No sledding. Melted immediately. Mhmm. It's tough. But, I am very excited about our episode today. How about you? I am. I feel like I might have a little bit of knowledge about this. Yeah. Definitely experience. Oh, for sure. Well, I have experience on the flip side. Oh, yeah. Bye. Bye. I guess. Yeah. Yeah. So today we're going to be talking about the transition from being a mom to being a mother in law and also everything that comes along with that. I can share my insights on being a daughter in law and we're going to go over some research as well. Which is very enlightening as to how mother in laws are viewed in our culture. Spoiler alert, it's not very good. I'm sure you know that already because there's so many jokes. Yes, yes, it is. It's probably I would guess if not the most strained relationship, I don't know anything else that would be as strained as the mother in law, daughter in law piece. we have a history with this now and we, might not have been pretty when we started, but it was cautious and we just want to take you through that. And, if you're out there and your mother in law and if you're struggling. Hope you'll tune in and stay to the end. Yes. I think we're gonna be talking about a lot of good stuff today. I want to just early talk about a study. So it's by Terry Apter, who was a psychologist at Cambridge University. And he has over two decades of research under his belt. So he knows what he's talking about. Or she. I actually don't know if it's a man or a woman, but they're smart. Well, um, They did a study that revealed 60 percent of women admitted the relationship with their female in law caused them long term unhappiness and stress. And two thirds of daughter in laws believed their husband's mother frequently exhibited jealous maternal love towards their son. 75 percent of couples reported having problems with an in law, but only 15 percent of mother in law son in law relationships were described as tense. And I think that raises a question relating to what you just said. Why is the female female relationship much harder We're going to get into it today and we're going to talk about a lot of different aspects of this transition, both sides of it. So I'm excited to get into it. Let's do it. If you're listening, welcome to the generational tea podcast, where we give you the tea from many generations and us being the prime example. I'm Gen Z and you're what, Oh my goodness, you don't even know. No. You're not a boomer, are you? No. No. I'm sorry. I don't think I'm a boomer. I don't know what that next one. Hold on. We're gonna find out. Okay. Let's see. Boomers are like the old senile people. Mm. I think your father-in-law may be a boomer and I'm pretty sure he is within earshot of what we're talking about right now. Uh oh. Sorry. he's not a typical. No, he's not a typical boomer. There's boomers I'm thinking of are like me, mom's age. Okay. Can we talk about really quick? I thought it was so funny when I moved to the South and you guys have like Meemaw and Peepaw because in Colorado I feel like myself and most everyone I knew would just say Grandma and Grandpa. But there's so many names for grandparents down here I was unaware of previously. Oh yeah. You got to get in on the floor level with that. If you're a mama or mother in law so that you can, or the grandmother. So you're not a boomer. You're a Gen X. You're safe. Now we continue on. What year was Jim born? 63. Is he a boomer? We got a boomer. Boom in the house, but he's definitely atypical. No, he's a cool one. I'll give him that. Yeah, for sure. For sure.

Kaina G: 4:58

All right. Well, like we said today, we're discussing the transition from mom, to a mother in law and how to navigate this relationship on either side of it. And we're going to talk about also what to do when it's causing stress. We actually met. someone last weekend and they were talking about their friend and just going on and on about how for lack of better words, crazy their mother in law. I don't want to, you know, there's a stigma about calling women crazy and I don't like it, but sometimes the boot fits. If it does. If it fits, wear it. That's right. That's right. And if it fits well. Buy it in a few colors and try to get it on sale. Make sure that you try that boot on and, you know, walk around. Send a message, send a picture to 15 of your friends. Yes. Yes. Yes. I don't know how we got here. Anyways. this topic is obviously something close to my heart because I'm very aware I've been blessed and I'm lucky enough to have a mother in law, Miss Ronnie, who is amazing, inspiring and treats me amazing. And she's also my best friend and not many people get to call their mother in law one of their best friends. So I'm very aware that I'm lucky and I think she is the perfect example of how to be a great mother in law and there's a lot people could learn from her. And so I thought it would be great to do one of our first episodes about this so we can really dive deeper into our relationship and hopefully you can be a role model for mother in laws and Yeah, we'll see where it goes. Okay, sounds good. Well, we wanted to open with some questions, maybe prompt you guys to think about it and just so we can think it out and talk it out right here. So why do you think there is such a negative association around mother in laws and why is this such a hard transition for moms to make as their children age? I feel like you could probably give more insight to that as I can, seeing as I'm childless. Yeah. Yeah. I think The big thing with in law relationships is deciphering and dealing with any preconceived idea you might have because if you are a mother, you have a mother in law. I think a lot of the negative connotation could come from southern women, because in the south. Most families stay together in a unit. They stay in the same town. If they're not in the same town, they're one town over, and so back in the day, it was very important to keep your family together. I think a lot of people, especially my mother's generation, they looked to their family to be everything. That was their source of happiness. It was their source of fun. It was their source of grief, depression, all the stuff, but it was just, it's your family and you have to do this. So taking aside, first of all, just some of that, some of those variables, if you can mentally like just put that to the side, I think there is a lot of positive examples out there that just don't get caught. Because the squeaky wheel gets the all and so we want to highlight positive things that we've done and goals that we have in order to continue to bring light to a situation and hopefully bring you hope. It doesn't stop with that. So, um, I don't necessarily have to have a bad relationship. Well, I definitely think there's a cycle and it kind of feeds itself because there is such an association in society and in pop culture and just so many things. People talk about having a mother in law that's judgmental or jealous or You know, some variation of something. And I think that stereotype is always in the back of our minds. And if we take that into our relationships and into meeting a mother in law or meeting a father in law, whatever, I think that can put seeds of negativity before the relationship even has a chance to develop and not to say that that's the reason, but that I'm sure is a factor in it, but man, I tend to think that There's something there in the research I mentioned, the female relationships within laws are always more difficult and more turbulent. And I think that may have something to do with maybe the pressure society puts on women. And I think maybe also the fact that women carry the child, so they're more emotionally attached because they physically carried their child. Do you think that could be a reason that people have a hard time, letting go? I think that's a probably a big reason some mother in laws are so controlling is because they're having a hard time letting go of their children and letting them build their own family and grow up. Right. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's that for sure. Is an issue. I think society also tends to pit women against each other and we're so Pushed into comparing each other women are just always constantly comparing, and I think society has reinforced that. And I also think that could come into play when you're talking about a mother in law and daughter in law in a relationship that's difficult. Yeah. Do you think so? Yeah. And I think one thing that can, He's that transition is the fact that If there is a strong family unit with healthy parents that Is already being modeled, and I think if a son is guided, if they're respected, if they've been poured into in a practical way, that they can be the catalyst to stop the teacup from going round and round. I love the tea reference. Yes, yes. Yes. Thinking about those little tea cups at Disney and how they always get you very sick. You throw up everywhere? Yes. Exactly. It's a core memory. Everyone's got to do it. All right., So last opening question before we dig into the meat of it, what is your biggest pet peeve when it comes to your mother in law? Well, probably the biggest pet peeve for me. Is control. My, husband comes from a family of four boys and, it's very different raising boys than it is girls. I can only assume I have two boys, but I think the control part and the jealousy part, I think those two go hand in hand. I think usually there's insecurities. As we grow older and you'll get there one day, you guys will get there one day if you're not already, there's a lot that happens in your personal life, in your physical body during a time when you could be gaining an in law of some sort. So for that part, it's the negativity or just, never being satisfied or pleased. and I know that a lot of that I brought into the relationship as well. I was looking for somebody to nurture me and we live next door and I thought maybe that would happen. and it's not like it's been a full blown disaster. But I had to realize Early on, and we'll talk more about this in later episodes, but I had to realize that I had to refocus and reset my expectations. To me, that was a big key, but yeah, I would say control and jealousy. And I think the jealousy is the root of the control and the negativity. It all comes. Well, the fact that you were able to live next to her for so many years and not lose your sanity and not just be a total disaster, I think that's also a testament to, like you said, managing our expectations, but also you've told me a lot about setting and maintaining boundaries. Yes. Yes. We're going to, we're also going to get into that as well. Yes. Obviously a big part of any relationship, especially one like this, especially if it's Not going as well as you want it to yeah, yeah, God if I had well, I guess I do have to answer this question Yes, you do. Tell me my biggest pet peeve about you, Ronnie I'm ready. I'm ready Really scraping the bottom of the barrel trying to think of an answer. Yeah, you're two a DHD to read the books. I recommend you Yeah, I stand. I am guilty. Well, you did read the 100 page book you Yes. Yes. And that we're actually gonna talk about, that's. Now that's part of our release batch that we've prepared to you. What's a book that has changed both of our lives. I think we can both agree, But yeah, I wanted her to read my 500 pages. Fantasy novels and two days. No doubt. No, I gave you months. Well, it was much Books on could tape. It's the best thing that ever happened to a girl like me Yeah, yeah, yeah Now that you've said that you can listen to audiobooks, you're not getting out of this one, sister. Okay. Okay. Y'all help me out there. Give me some suggestions of books that would be good to read that don't dragons and women slaying dragons and swords. I think you're at a loss. Those aren't the best books. You're missing it. I am so sorry. We'll talk about those later. Yes. So the next section we're going to talk about is becoming a mother in law and the challenges that come along with that. So I'll let you definitely take the lead on that, Ronnie. Okay. Well, for me personally, the day I had my children is the day I began to think about their spouse. And. Having a strained relationship really, you know, amped that up pretty significantly. because I had things that I knew I didn't want to happen. The challenge for me has been not having a daughter and while research. Again, the daughter in law and mother in law is the most strange relationship. First of all, I have two sons, so I was. More than likely gonna have at least one woman in my life. I grew up with two brothers. My husband's one of four boys. my mother on that side of the family has six nephews. There are no females. No, I also have four nephews. Zero nieces. So it's uncharted territory, but while that can be considered a negative, It can also be very positive because the slate is clean. I didn't have a daughter that I had connected with in a way. That I wanted somehow for that relationship to somehow be this relationship. Yeah. that part, definitely, was a challenge. I love it. Well, I love that you're turning a negative into a positive. Well, not even a negative, but it's just unpaved ground. And I feel like when there's a void or you don't know what to expect, a lot of times. Negativity just fills that or in this case, perceptions of society can color your perceptions, but being aware of that and then changing your perception to looking at this as a clean slate and doing it how you want. That's amazing. And I also, I'm really proud that because you had a strained mother in law relationship so early you started to focus on how you were not going to do that because I feel like a lot of times and a lot of cases I've heard and even I mean movies I've seen. Bad mother in laws usually come from having a bad mother in law relationship with their mother in law. Yeah. And they just repeat the cycle because that's what they know and it's what society not expects, but in a way they kind of do. But I love that you just flipped that switch. Well, I knew what obstacles that I had. So I had to find out counteractions of those. So instead of approaching it like I will not do this, I will not do that. You know, this is definitely something that I won't do. Those things I had to get out of my mind because that was just going to pull me down. If I was constantly thinking about what I could not do, then what can I do to change it? So, so kind of switching that a little bit in, in a subject where my personal, personal Experience has not been great, or sometimes even good. I knew what not to do, but instead of focusing on that, changing that to, okay, what did I wish? And so I had a long time to think about future, in laws with my boys. The challenges and what I saw was a little bit the control part. And so that had such a profound negative impact on me. Like the control, the, jealousy. The control part of the whole family can really, there can be one person that steers that ship. it causes so much damage, even if it's just one person. It really does because everybody falls in line and it's really difficult to try to pit yourself and your husband against his mother. when I've done that in the past, it's not been good. Well, I can imagine. Yeah. Yeah. So, so I'm sure that's tough because there's probably times when you need to Disrupt and set boundaries and be firm, but it obviously has shock waves that go into not just that group of three, your husband and your mother in law, it goes into the whole family because everyone hears about it and then there's all this drama and there's all this conflict happening and it's so, it's so tough. Yes. But you've managed it. Well, still managing. For sure, still managing. Another thing that can be, a challenge in becoming, A mother in law, it may be, especially if you're a mother of just boys, that's what I can speak to as a mother of just boys. I had to resonate with the fact, once my kids found their life partner, and I knew that the day of being a good mother in law started the first day that I met. And I knew that, you know, that was the day that I had a lot invested in it because these are boys that I love and I'm so connected with, I also let them have their own. space and that can be difficult, especially if you've got a lot going on. Yeah. So let's say your mom, you're working, you're PTA president or trying to be team mom on some kind of sports. You're overscheduled. Your kids are overscheduled. You can easily get into a pattern of no, you're going to wear this and this, and here's why. as our kids are younger, we have an easier time controlling the schedule. Yeah. But I think in controlling the schedule, if that's what we're controlling, let your children be them. In the off times, let them find their own voice. Yes, that's very important. and honestly, activity is one of the biggest stealers of our voice because we're constantly, you know, going from this to the next, to the next, to the next. and so I think really starting that. On day one and allowing your children to become adults. Yeah. one of the things I probably did and my husband obviously supported it is I wanted my kids to be men that could stand on their own feet. I love that. I also wanted them to be men that can relate to women. Thank you. You are welcome. You did that. Yeah. Probably the Thing that Jim and I did as a family with our kids at home, we didn't really realize the impact that it was going to have on everybody was just the fact, that. Jim and I still had date nights. There were certainly times and periods of times where we were not on the same plane, but in the times that we were, and as life goes on, you might be sitting there thinking, well, all my interactions right now with my husband is terrible. Find something you can have a common ground on. And the big thing for us was our goal in life was to raise our boys and see them move out and be independent., Members of society who can communicate. I think raising them that way, which you did a great job of, I already told you this, but I'm just letting the people know she did an amazing job. I think having that focus and raising your kids and doing everything you did probably makes it easier to let them go. Would you say that's what I would go with. Guess. And maybe you can trust that they've got a good picker as well. Yes. If you're raising them like you said you were, then you're confident they can go out in the world and have relationships and communicate and just be a good person. And obviously there's crazy people out there, but I feel like is that make it easier for you to trust their pick? Definitely. And I feel like there's, Trust in yourself too. Like you have to have trust in how you parented them as well. Exactly. Well, I'm just guessing. So I'm glad you're confirming. Yes, because you have to trust that how you've parented them for the 18 years or 20 years, 22 still in college. it has, that has to be on a continuum too. So it's like making age appropriate. setting age appropriate boundaries, setting age appropriate goals of this is how you communicate. One thing that, Jim and I were able to do probably because I had a lot of, controversy in my life early on, or just some hard knocks is just Being able to communicate and say, I'm sorry, in front of your children. I know we'll get more into that. And I'm sure I'm like, Yes. So yes, One thing that has been something probably the most recent. That I have been, cognizant of and have been implementing. And when I say recent, I'm saying within like the last five or six years, I had to realize that. My boys, their partner, their spouses, can love them and do love them more than I could. I feel like some mother in laws, particularly the bad ones, would never think or say that or agree with it. Yeah, I just feel like that in the times that I might be really anxious or nervous, based on what you and Weston may be going through or Garrett and also maybe going through, I just have to come back. That recenters me to say, you know what you worry. About this, but they're in the best hands because they got somebody in their life that loves them the way I love my husband. And so that again, having a healthy relationship yourself as a woman, as a potential mother in law, you can come into the relationship without a lot of baggage. You're coming to it because it's healthy. You have this relationship with your husband that is still good and it's still vibrant and it's still exciting. And that doesn't just happen. You got to make that work it, work it, work it. But yeah, the fact, and I'm just going to repeat it again because I don't know that it was something that I conscientiously, thought about until I just said it out loud in my head was, your children's spouses love them in a way that as mothers, we cannot love our kids. we don't have the capacity to do that. We shouldn't even desire that. But if you can trust the process and put your trust in That you have raised kids the way you think they should go, and they've already proven themselves in different parts of society. forcing communication is huge. forcing communication with everybody in the household. And that is not the communication that I tell everybody what to do, or that Jim tells everybody what to do. It's more of, you know, yesterday we had a little hiccup. Can we go back and talk about that? That kind of stuff, open communication and. Allowing it to be on that other person's timeline, that part. The timing is everything for sure. You taught me that. Yes. Okay, I have a hypothetical for you. Okay. And you don't have to do a super long answer because I think we will touch on it a little bit later when we talk about dealing with a bad mother in law or bad daughter in law. Uh huh. hypothetical, Weston comes home with an alternate version of me, who's a total witch. Not at all what you wanted for Weston. Maybe she, me, has some bad flaws, whatever. just not at all what you pictured for Weston and you don't think that she would be good for him, but. Anyways, how do you think you would approach that if Weston was as serious about this other version of me as he is about the real me? How would you approach that given the way you approach becoming a mother in law well, again, I have to trust the process. I have to trust my child because I know only my child in this situation. I also need to think about, Oh, this is something that she said. I'm wondering if that comes from a place of hurt. a place of lack. I kind of think you would just, do you think you would talk to Weston about it privately? Would you talk to him at all? Would you just let the thing develop on its own and see where it goes? I think I would give it time to develop. again, if I stepped in earlier or sooner rather than later, then I was telling Weston that he's not capable of choosing a mate. So I would let it go. I would, Find common ground. That's a good one. We're going to talk about that later too. Yeah, yeah. So I would do that and um, have patience with you. Get to know you more. Ask more questions. That way I can understand when you respond in a certain way. Where that's coming from. Well, look at that. Perfect. Alright, ready to move on to the next one? Okay, next, I'll take the lead on this one. Getting a mother in law, but you also relate, so feel free to hop in whenever. I will say, I was very nervous. I've always been nervous. I mean, everyone's nervous when they meet the parents of whoever they're seeing. I was particularly nervous to meet you guys because I just had a feeling about Weston. And I was like, these could probably be my future in laws. And they were, but I was very nervous and I was definitely worried about my in law relationships in the future just because there is such a, stereotype behind it. And like I said earlier, I think it's a mix of a lot of things, media tropes, pop culture. And there's also a grain of truth in there that reinforces the notion that mother in law relationships are. toxic at worst, tense at best, and these are relationships, and I think if we acknowledge that, they do have a tendency to be fraught with issues, but it's how you handle them and communicate with them that is the kicker, so, obviously, all these things in society are feeding the assumption that this in law conflict and having tense relationships is normal. It's pretty normal, but it doesn't have to be this way. And I think we're the proof of that. And I think even when I was so nervous to meet you, I still, I tried to approach all my relationships and things like that with zero expectations and just let the, let the The relationship developed. Obviously I did still have some worries and fears and all that stuff, but I tried not to let that color my perception of you guys at all. And I think it worked. honestly the biggest thing was how amazing you guys are and the time that I spent with you guys while we were dating made me really fall in love with your family. But I think for, Anyone else don't approach it with any expectations at all. an example for me, I am a pretty liberal person and I'm from the Midwest and I was always nervous about dating Southern men because them or their parents were probably going to be too conservative for my taste. Just being honest. I was nervous in that sense. Not that our political views wouldn't align, not just that, but I was worried that I wouldn't be accepted because of things like that, which I think is a very real worry, but obviously you guys are amazing and we don't talk about politics in this family. It's just not something, it's not something we do. There's nothing good that can come from that. But that was a fear that I had going inside my head that I think was prompted by a lot of the stereotypes and perceptions that I had just about. and everything like that. But I made sure to, especially in the early stages of our relationship, I made sure to be aware of that and just table that fear until I really got to know them. And as I got to know you guys, that fear obviously just melted away. Like never thought about it again., And I also use Weston's opinion of you guys to help structure my relationships and just listen very closely to how he would talk about you guys that also helps get the stereotypes and the negative perceptions out of my head, I think, definitely. Just observing your relationship with Jim as well, like seeing the example that Weston had for you guys as far as marriage and healthy communication. I know, I've noticed very quickly that this is a very healthy family who was very accepting and very kind and I'm glad I didn't let those stereotypes and anxieties I had. Yeah, yeah, for sure. yeah, I was wondering if you have any suggestions, some of you may be in love with a guy. You've not yet met the parents. Would you, do you have anything or any advice that you could give, those that are waiting for that first meet? as far as, is there something that Weston did that made it easier or that he communicated that made it easy? What did? What happened on the ride home or pre meeting, you know what I'm saying? do you have like some questions that you should ask your spouse, your boyfriend, girlfriend about? Well, I think definitely just asking your partner about their family will help you get a feel for it. I think Weston was just very reassuring to me about our relationship and he told me, Like they're going to love you, like it's okay. And I mean, that's definitely good to get reassurance if it's going to be true. I think just talking to your partner about their family. So you have an idea of what you're walking into is very important, but also not letting all this information that you have create these expectations. So just check your biases, your expectations and your fears right at the door. And. Just show up as your authentic self and let the relationships develop the way they're going to. And if they're not developing the way you want, we're going to talk about in a little bit how to manage that. Well, actually next we're going to talk about next. We're going to talk about it, but what would you say to the same question? Advice you have for someone about to meet their in laws or potential in laws. Well, I think definitely do your research prior to that. And that is. Not surface level. You want to get to know your boyfriend in a way to find out spiritually where they are. And I I think also you can ask tell me three things you respect about your mom Tell me three things you respect about your dad. tell me your fondest memory. Opening it up to that, not where do they work? Where do they live? Did they go to college? What degree? Those things come, and you will find those out, but you need to get to the heart of the matter. Earlier rather than later, because we as parents or mother in laws, we may have something that's very important to us, but it's not important to you. So, Ask a lot of questions, your boyfriend, girlfriend, whomever you want to bring home, they have a wealth of knowledge and a lot of times men don't want to talk. Some people don't want to talk a lot about that kind of thing. So you have to get creative in how you do it. It's just, can't be like a rapid fire. Okay. We're going to sit down at dinner and we're talking to your parents tonight. Yeah. Yeah. So definitely. I think to sum up both of our answers, it's gotta be a balance of being prepared, asking the right questions and also showing up. No expectations. Yep. Yes. I love that. So, let's talk about the elephant in the conversation. How do you manage a difficult mother in law? Well. Glad you guys asked, because we got an expert right here. But before I let Ronnie take it away, I do want to talk about some research again. I'm a big fan of researching a lot of the conversations that we talk about on this podcast, and trust me, I get them from good sources. Very good sources. Usually I'm going to pull from university studies or, scientific journals, a lot of stuff like that so you guys know where my research is coming from. And I can also put the research links in the show notes if you guys are interested to read more about the study or learn more. just generally, the majority of research shows a significant portion of people report conflict with their mother in law. Now to talk about a specific study, from the University of Maryland of Social Work researched six variables that are good predictors for the quality of the relationship between a mother in law, daughter in law. And these variables are shared interest, daughter in law feeling close to the father in law. Daughter in law's perception that her husband is close with his mother. The daughter in law feeling caught between her husband and her mother in law. The daughter in law believing the mother in law is closer to another child in law. And the amount of time the daughter in law and mother in law spend together. So if we were to review these for in terms of our relationship, I think we would see why we have such a positive relationship because we have shared interests. I'm close with my father in law. I know, and I have known since before I met you, that Weston is close with you. To an extent. To the extent. He's a difficult person. He's not difficult, he just loves to go against anything that may be perceived as tradition or expected. So I'm still maybe getting a negative. Well, I think you guys are close, but you're so alike that you just, you know, you, you rub in the wrong way. I rub myself the wrong way. I put myself in timeout now. My mind's in the gutter. I have to go now. Let's just, err, get back to the podcast. Alright, the daughter in law believing the mother in law is closer to another child in law. Well, since we're like best friends, that's not really something I think about. Sorry, Dawson! and the amount of time we spend together, which is a lot. A lot. So, all of these variables, definitely, I think, these make sense for predicting the quality of the relationship, or how much conflict there's going to be, because it makes a whole lot of sense why we're so close. Yes. Based on all these variables in the study. Well, now that we've gone through that study, I want to talk about some things to be aware of when you're dealing with a difficult relationship well, this particular familial relationship. Okay. Yeah. I think one big thing Is study the family, study the rest of the people in the family, the other children, the relationship that you see with their other children, what the relationship you see the mother in law has with your husband, your spouse, everybody has a place and trying to figure out where. You can fit in to that and I'm not meaning it like fit in to be popular and to be liked But how can I enhance? Yeah, the function in this home. Mm hmm. Well, I think it's important studying the family So if you have a difficult relationship with your mother in law study the family and maybe you can see is it just me? Or does she treat everyone this way? That could probably help you at least take a step in the direction of solutions. Yes, yes. Because if she treats everyone the same way she treats you, then, I don't know. This might be a whole different situation. Yes, yes. And then you can also see the differing ways that the sons, in my case, all four boys related back to the mom. So I was able to kind of pick up on, Oh, this brother gives her a lot of comfort. He's the one that. She calls when she's down. This brother over here is very practical in the way he cares for his mom by being there doing things. and then also, learning more about your mother in law, where, how was she raised? Try to learn almost like going backwards. If they're already retired, what did you do before retirement? Getting some of those things on the back. Why, you know, what are your interests? And a lot of times you can just watch somebody and get a lot out of just watching them. So I think that definitely. Has to go with the studying of the family. For sure. Question. How important was it to have your husband support you in terms of important place you over his mother after you got married, how key was that to dealing with a strained relationship with your mother in law? Key, key, key. Key, key, key. and I would say that wasn't done well initially, you know. Well, at least it's being done well now. That's what's important. Yes, yes. But, you know, my husband's a quiet, reserved person. So, he doesn't give a lot of accolades. He doesn't hug people other than his immediate family. So like his mother and brothers and all that. That's just he's not one that over communicates his feelings. So I think that element of not over communicating his feelings, was something that lacked. I needed to know more about his feelings. Yeah, it was fine. I will tell you this. Right now, I don't think I've ever forced him to choose between me and his mother. Do you feel like that's important? I think it's the way you communicate it. Mm hmm. I think we have a whole lot of power as women, and persuasion. It's just a persuasive kind, but the only thing that I could do was be 100 percent transparent when we walked down there, you know, after a lunch or whatever. That's a must. and he can sympathize with me. Do you feel like for maybe someone listening that is dealing with a difficult mother in law as well, but it's, To an extreme, like even worse than what you've had to deal with. Do you think it's fair for a woman to ask her husband to choose ever? I think one of the major reasons maybe that I didn't push that I didn't have to push that was communication with Jim about how I was feeling and how he was able to validate my own feelings and say, Oh, I can see Where that would have hurt your feelings. Yeah, it may not hurt his feelings He's lived with his mother for a whole lot longer and he knows and So I think if he had not Had respect the compassion for me. That part was big enough for me. Like I knew that he knew how I was feeling. He had validated my feelings. We had talked about what are some future ways that we can communicate. You want to have your spouse. In on the action, in on the planning, never expect them to sit in a situation at a dinner table. They're there, you're there, others, other kids are there, other spouses are there. We can never assume that they've seen and felt and heard exactly what you saw and felt and heard. Because a lot of that stuff is just family dynamics and people look over things. And, I do think there's probably times where you have to disconnect for a season if you need to, if you're not on the same page, if you feel stuck in the middle, or if your son or your husband feels stuck in the middle, or your spouse feels stuck in the middle, I think that you're right. Disconnecting for a time. And that's something you did with your own family. We don't have to get into that now, but I think maybe if you are in a situation where you have a total horror story of a mother in law. That you do have the right to ask your husband to disconnect from his family for a while, but it shouldn't be a question that you're posing to him, like an ultimatum that would last forever, right? I mean, depending on the situation, I guess, but I think it would have to be very, very, very extreme to cut someone off permanently. Yeah, for sure. But I also, I just think if we will approach things in an authentic manner, With our, husbands, like be fully transparent, don't expect them to read your mind or know that when she said this, that it was going to trigger this in your own mind, based on your past experiences. So you come in with a lot of baggage. I would just say, try to leave as much of it at the door. Or even in the car and walk in and take a deep breath. But yeah, I definitely, believe that Jim supports me a hundred percent in that. That's great. For sure. let's talk about some factors that can block a positive relationship between a mother in law and daughter in law. And Whichever side of the relationship you're on, how you can maybe flip them on their head to make some progress towards a better direction. Yes. So let's talk first about jealousy. So something you experienced, something you dealt with from your mother in law. Really any jealousy that I experienced or that I sensed from my mother in law was more of The commitment that my husband had to me emotionally. Mm hmm. That's where the jealousy comes through. I don't think she was ever jealous of The way I looked or how much time I spent with him because he spent a lot of time in the shop with his dad So I don't know I think it was the emotional, of the jealousy. It's probably what it is for most moms. I would venture to guess, but I mean, it could be, it could be also a lot of other things. Yes. Yes. I think it's so critical to make a mental note of where. your in laws or your significant other's family, what they've been through. If they've been through a death or they just lost a job or they're just now retiring, grant grace. Definitely. But also don't forget it. So when that happens, do you think the best solution is for the son to approach some other and have a conversation about that or a conversation between the daughter in law and mother in law. I don't feel like that would go well depending on your relationship, but I don't know. I guess it all depends on how you communicate. But that can be tricky waters. Yes. and for the most part, I honestly, I want to deal with it. If it's a personal thing between me and somebody else, I kind of probably tried to keep Jim out maybe at a fall. I didn't want him to feel the tuck because his relationship with his mom was already strained. So I knew that any advice that he could give me or anything that he would go and talk about me too, would be coming from that place. So I thought if I have these conversations, then I know that my point has been put across. Yeah. That's a great point. Yeah. I think if you feel capable and able to do that, then that's probably the best way to go. Yeah. But for sure, it's very varied. So it really depends on the family and situation. And it's a continuum. Yeah. It's a continuum. This is definitely not a step by step how to guide. We're just working these things out and hoping you guys glean some information from us. Working it out in our brain. Do you think mother in laws that are jealous are doing it unconsciously? I think a lot are. I would venture to guess maybe all of them. Yeah, their goal in life is not to make their child, single or in a strained relationship. The emotion jealousy is something that's almost embarrassing when you recognize that you're feeling it. And something negative. So I would venture to guess the most don't realize it. So if you are going to be a mother in law or you are a mother in law, maybe just be aware that that's something that can happen because I think awareness is the first step in changing anything. And if you're aware that jealousy is an emotion that can come up, then you're probably not gonna experience it if you're right. Right. Yeah. there's been times in my life where I have felt pity for an in law because I could see what they so desperately wanted and needed, especially a mom of all boys. But she wouldn't let me help. At least you tried to help. I did try to help. Some people don't want to accept help when that's the most frustrating thing, but there's nothing you can do to change it for the most part. Exactly. Okay. Let's talk about one of our favorite things. Expectations. Right, right. Ronnie is the queen. Uh, managing your expectations. Yes, that is, top five that I want to go down. helping my family, my friends, children, grandchildren, all to understand that we have to manage our own expectations. So something, just through years of, studying my fate, of dealing with all kinds of conflict, whether it be in my own personal family or with friends or with co workers, and especially when you're dealing with a difficult in law or parents. Because all the things I feel like that we're talking about could go even if you have a strained relationship and your direct parent is the one that's causing it. When we come up to something and we realize that is not meeting my need. When that thing is not meeting your need and you keep going back and back and back again, but you come up empty every time and you're sad and you're disappointed, you have only two ways that we can respond, I feel like, and what I've seen in my own life, and my friends lives. One is, we change the situation. We change the circumstance. we do something different. A lot of times, we don't have that privilege, because we can't control what somebody else's response is. We can't control, them putting everything to the side and coming to the conversation in a way. So either one of two things happen. You either have to change your situation or you change how you think about it and feel about it. Ain't that the truth. Yeah, managing expectations is definitely key. If you're struggling with a mother in law, or maybe you're struggling with a daughter in law, I don't know. Yeah, yeah. But I think that is important as the relationship goes on over time, and making sure you don't have unrealistic or negative expectations when you're first meeting them or developing the relationship. And I already talked about that, so I don't have that much more to say. But it is very, very important. I love this too. just reminded me here, unrealistic expectations regarding your own role. That's a kicker. I forgot I wrote that. So how does that look? How can you manage the expectations? of where you're going to fit in to that family. Something I do a lot is I daydream and I like to think of future hypothetical scenarios either bad ones or good ones, depending on my mood usually. But I think At least for me, that's where expectations into my role in things, whether it's relationships or jobs or whatever it is that I'm daydreaming about. That, I was imagining my own role in the family as someone that is not super close because I was worried I wasn't going to connect or be accepted with you guys because of you guys being people that are from the South and conservative. That affected how I saw my own role developing within the family. And I should have never had those expectations because, I didn't need to and they weren't going to help me get to a positive place. And right. And to begin with. So we cannot be, Ricky rescues in every family. Ricky rescues. Yeah. That's something people used to say. I ain't Gen X girl. What does that mean? I said, I ain't Gen X, girl. I ain't from your generation. Oh. Is that a Southern saying? Probably. There's a lot of Southern sayings out there. I have never heard of that one. Let's talk about boundaries. I would venture out and say this is probably one of the most important variables, that if you take the care to set boundaries and maintain them, it'll probably be one of the most helpful things in terms of managing a difficult relationship. Would you agree? Absolutely. Yeah. So what did setting boundaries look like for you? And do you have advice on anyone that needs to set boundaries with a difficult family member? Yeah. Well, I think you set boundaries early on if you can, it could be something so simple again in the South. Like it's just kind of one of those things you go to church on Sunday, you go to somebody's house in the family and you have your soup. Or your stew or your casserole kind of thing. And I think setting boundaries for that would be, one way you could do that is you could say, you know what, we're going to come the first Sunday of the month you know, we want to be involved in that. What you're doing is you're not just cutting somebody off. You're limiting your access. You are limiting the access, which you can not. You cannot draw realistic boundaries and stick to them unless you're limiting your access. I think boundaries and limiting your access go very close together. Yeah, I would agree. And it's not just physical access too, as far as boundaries go. in the research I was doing, a lot of the things that people set boundaries with your in laws about are decision making, child rearing, finances, time, personal space, all those things, but definitely those go hand in hand. What do you do if someone has a poor reaction to setting boundaries or they continually disrespect the boundaries that you set? Is that when you maybe disconnect from them for a little bit? You may have to. Yeah. The great thing is you are, if you're married, you're, you are a couple now, you are one. So those boundaries need to be discussed in private. Yeah. With your spouse. Come up with a plan together, and also some action items that you could do to get this started. it's really going to be difficult to set boundaries in an in law relationship if you don't have the support of their child. Yeah, if you're not on the same page, that's Yeah, That's maybe a reason that boundaries aren't respected is if they're not being upheld consistently by both members Yeah, because you the great thing about being a couple is when you're feeling super frustrated It tends to turn out that your spouse is not as frustrated as you are and vice versa So if someone's not respecting boundaries, do you just reaffirm reaffirm reaffirm? And then disconnect if they're not respecting them? I think reaffirm if they're not getting it in a subtle way. The last thing you want to do is go up to a relationship Whoever it is parents in laws, whatever the last thing you should do is come up and say we are establishing boundaries and Here they are. You cannot do da da da da. Hopefully, you can establish those boundaries with your spouse, with your kids, and saying, You know, after school, no, you're not going up to Nana's right off the school bus to get your snack. You need to do your homework first and then you can go up there. Little things like that. It cannot be an all or nothing thing, but the success of boundaries, I believe starts with communication and being a good communicator. Unified couple because I know if I forced Jim or He has to make a decision between me or and his mom or me and any other relationship Then I have put a lot on him And not only have I put it on him, but nine times out of ten i'm gonna be critical about how he does it Let's just say it. I mean, yeah So that's where getting on the same page with your spouse as your kids get older not ever sharing with your Children, making sure that is an age appropriate time. And you can instead of just saying these are the boundaries that you can say, Okay, all right, guys. This is what's happening. I feel like I live in a fishbowl. We need to pull back. We need to, have some time here at the house. Let me help you get through your homework, and then you can go up to Nana's for a snack, or then you can go, whatever it is, You have to be unified because our natural response, anybody's natural response to push back is to push back. Yeah. It's human nature. And so many times. I have to rehearse it in my own head. Like, Oh, same, same, same, same, same, same. well, I was talking about daydreaming. I also rehearse conversations with my brain. And then when they don't go, like, I thought they would. I'm like, what I do is I like. And I think about all the things, man, I should have said this and I could have said that. And, so with boundaries, sometimes it's a time limit. Other times it's a emotion. If you have, you know, if my mother called and cried to me every day, and it was three years after my father passed, and we still weren't past that, I would need help in establishing boundaries. We would have to talk about it and say, okay, mom, I am no good to you right now because I'm stressed out. I feel like I don't have enough time to get what I need to be done during the day. And I'm conflicted and torn between the part of me being your emotional support and also maintaining a great relationship with my spouse and my children. Yeah. Time is the best thing that you can give each other. Time with them, and then also time apart. They each have their own value that works towards something good for the relationship, for sure. Yes, yes. For sure. another one, that kind of struck me was over involvement. Yeah. A mother in law, might be seen as overly involved in her son's potentially creating tension with the daughter in law. And that's just years of Not having boundaries. Yeah. wanting to be involved in every detail, and this is something that I have to, probably correct on Kena is I have time on my hands. And so there's a lot of things that I could do to help, but it doesn't mean I always should. And I always need to come back and say, I think you're fine. You think I'm fine? Well, I think we have a relationship where if we felt that you were over involved, we could tell you. Yeah. And you wouldn't take it personally or negatively. But I also feel like you do a good job of setting boundaries for yourself regarding our relationship. So I feel like I didn't even have to set boundaries with you for anything because you already kind of have an understanding of the boundaries so that you're not over involved. And so that me and Weston can have our own relationship yeah, okay, you're good Critical comments Well, yes the critical comments And this is something on both sides I would say when you're approaching a relationship that is difficult the first thing you have to do is is come to a point where you're not expecting anything. If you go into the relationship and you're like, this is the last time if she didn't do it this way. And I understand there are times for that and trust me. I have had so many blowouts with that, but I just think that, we on both sides can be critical. And that's where if we have good friend relationships and you have mentors and things that you can look up to, there's going to be times when they're going to say, okay, well, you went in guarded, or ask you, did you approach this scenario already? Feeling like she was going to be critical of you because we manifest what we think. It's very true. Well, if you are thinking that she's going to be critical of you and you go into that conversation, chances are your responses are going to reflect what you're feeling, whether you mean them to or not. And yeah, cause you're just going to put out the vibe that it's going to attract critical. Yeah, definitely. While we're talking about this, communication issues is definitely another factor that can make or break an in law relationship, especially if it's already difficult. So, like you said, going to conversations, especially difficult ones, trying to have zero expectations so that you can be your most authentic and honest self. Cause that is the way to go. Even if it's a difficult relationship and if you feel like the other person is being manipulative or critical. Anything like that. The only thing you can control is your reaction and your responses and authentic and honest all the way to go. I think is you have to be comfortable enough with yourself to be honest and respectful, but also understand that you can do those things and you can also disagree. Even with your mother in law, because I think some woman, including myself, I think me a couple years ago, probably would have agreed with most of everything you said, which I agree with most everything you say anyways, but I wasn't very confident in myself and you're, almost like an authority figure to me in my family, and you're like another set of parents, and so I feel like a lot of women, especially if they're not close with their mother in law, they're probably going to agree instead of being honest because they're afraid of conflict, or they're afraid of their mother in law judging them, or looking at them differently, whatever. But knowing that you can be honest and be yourself, and you can still be respectful even if you're disagreeing. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Allow easier said than done, but well, and then sometimes it's not about being right. You just want to be happy. Yeah, I mean, there's been times where things were off putting things were not said that were true or things that I would disagree with I have to count the cost. What is it going to cost me to be right in this situation? Sometimes it's better to just cut your losses. Yeah. Cut your losses in the fact that you don't have to be right. Find different ways to connect, and here's the thing. If you don't like the way your in laws care for your children, Limit the access, but what can't happen and what can happen a lot or does happen, especially nowadays that both parents usually are working, daycare is expensive after school care and all that is expensive. You want to go on a date night. You cannot have it both ways. You cannot be the superstar. of your family unit outside of your home you have to decide when you go into a relationship like that, or you go into an agreement of, okay, you're going to watch the kids after school on Tuesdays and Thursdays. You have to understand that if that doesn't work out. It's not on your in laws. It's on you. You have to figure it out. I have to figure out. It was, something specifically that we'll get into later, but there was a time that I had to do some drastic things within my own family. Unfortunately, For everybody involved, I had allowed a lot of access to my kids and I worked night shift, my parents would pick them up from school, or my in laws would pick them up from school, but I can't try to be the queen. Of that world and set boundaries at the same time. Yeah. You got to be the queen of whatever you can control, well, I think we sure covered a lot about this specific relationship. I think we, we got a lot of good things. I hope you guys feel the same. But, best of luck to anyone out there that is managing a difficult relationship. And if you don't have a mother in law yet, or you haven't gained one yet, I hope that you can take things that You heard in this episode and apply it to make that relationship as positive at as it can be. Yes, for sure. For sure. All right. What she say, what did she say? What she said? Yes. it's a quote from Daniel Carson. And I couldn't find out who this woman was cause there's a lot of Daniel Carson's in the world. And, uh, I did probably 15 minutes of extensive research before I gave up on finding out who this lady is. So hopefully she's not cancelled. Quote, once blessed with a wonderful mother, twice blessed with a mother in law. That's me. I am very blessed. But like you said earlier, I think taking a negative and turning it into a positive, even if you aren't as lucky as I am to have a mother in law that's also a best friend, is focusing on the positives of this relationship, even if it's not where you want it to be yet. Yeah. And if you're right in the middle of this, sit down and write out three things that you need from that relationship. You think you need from that relationship, write down three things that you admire about her. did she do something in how she raised her kids to, I mean, Hey, all, of my brother in laws, including my husband can cook better than I can or any of the wives. Those guys know how to get into that pantry and you would be surprised what kind of meals they can come up with. And that is huge because if I had a husband that was dependent on me to make all those things happen, we'll get into that later, but fill in the blanks. Is that our challenge for the week? Yeah. Yeah. I think for one week for our release batch, I guess we'll have several challenges Yes, you got you got some work to do What was the challenge again? so for the next coming few days we'd love for you to sit down think about a difficult relationship. It may not be your difficult relationship could be your sister in law, but you can approach these in the very same way for sure. So I want you to find three things that are positive. About the other person you're having the difficult relationship with and Also write down three things that you feel like you need out of this relationship Because we cannot go into a relationship needing to be whole So if you've got things that you need to do if you write down three things https: otter. ai That shifting of focus that turning negatives into a positive, but yeah, just this week, write down a couple areas where somebody is doing it right. Somebody is doing it wrong. Things that hurt your feelings. Why does it hurt your feelings? Dig a little bit deeper into kind of the backstory and why you might need a certain thing. from somebody and you're not getting it. at that point, the goal is not to manipulate that person into getting what you want is to look, is there somebody else in my life, in my circle of influence, that's already contributing to me in that way. I like that. Yes. So, get the wheel turning, get the wheel turning. And then we also want you to make some comments. We'd love to hear from you if you've got burning questions or if you have a comment about something that we said or, anything like that, we would love to hear from you. We want these types of, podcasts to be relevant and personal. And so we want to hear from you. Yeah, reach out to us, whether you leave a comment on here or not. I know Spotify has option to leave a comment. I don't know if the other podcast apps do. YouTube obviously does, but you can always find our social media. TikTok doesn't get banned. We'll be there and we'll be on Instagram at generational tea pod. So you can message us, leave comments on our posts. We would love to hear from you guys about anything you got. Yes. Yes. Thank y'all so much for tuning in this week. Yeah. Thank you guys so much. We're so glad you joined us and we can't wait to see you on our next episode. That's right. So look us up. Generational T pod, subscribe. Yes, I'm teaching Ronnie how to close a podcast. Yeah. Listen, I am in such uncharted territories, y'all. You're doing great thank you. You're welcome. so Kena, show me how to close out a podcast. Bam! Give us reviews. Pretty please follow, subscribe, go to our social media, go check out our next episode. I feel like I'm forgetting something, but yeah, that's how you do it. But in on a real note, those are things that you can do for us, to help us build our podcast so we can reach more people. And also just any feedback from you guys will help us shape this podcast because it's a, it's a little baby podcast and we want it to be very collaborative and community focused the direction it goes, we want it to be shaped, not only by us, but by our listeners. Yes. Yes. Let's get it. Let's get this communication flowing. But yeah. Good job. We'll see you next episode. See you later. Bye. Bye.