The Gift of Pain | Investing in Our Pain Insurance

Welcome back to Generational Tea! Today, we’re diving into a topic that affects all of us at some point—pain. Whether chronic or temporary, pain is often seen as the enemy, but what if we could shift our mindset and see it as a friend instead? This episode is inspired by When We Hurt by Philip Yancey, which explores the life and work of Dr. Paul Brand, a world-renowned surgeon and leprosy specialist. His groundbreaking research revealed that life without pain can be far worse than we imagine.

• Join the conversation: What is your attitude toward pain -- could you improve your pain insurance? How did your weekly challenge go? Share your reflections in the comments or via our social media.
• What He Said:  "Pain is a priceless essential gift—of that I have no doubt. And yet only by learning to master pain can we keep it from mastering us." – Dr. Paul Brand 
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• Microphone flags by Impact PBS: https://impactpbs.com/ 
• Intro music by Cymatix
• Logo by @makariann 
• Business email: generationalteapod@gmail.com

Transcript

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Welcome to another episode of the generational tea podcast. I'm your host Kena and I'm Ronnie and today We are going to be talking about pain. Yes We know if you do not personally experience some type of chronic pain you are related to someone you have a loved one That's struggling or friends. They're struggling because pain is a real thing. It's universal and it is universal. So, we are going to just talk a little bit about some of the ways that you can deal with chronic pain. I'll share a little bit about my story and how I was able to get through some very painful situations. But for now, we're going to talk a little bit about And the book is entitled, Why We Hurt. The author of this book is Philip Yancey. but the book follows a late Dr. Brand. And what Dr. Brand did is, he worked with leprosy patients. He was a hand surgeon who ended up going and working in, leprosy hospitals, trying to prevent any kind of, amputations. He also worked closely with, folks who are suffering from diabetic retinopathy, not retinopathy, shoot, diabetic neuropathy. There you go. Diabetic neuropathy. That is a hard word to say. Um, and so, I came across this book probably eight years ago. Yeah. And you've told me, even before we started this podcast, how much of an impact this book made on you, and after reading it, I can see why. And, for me, someone who hasn't dealt with chronic pain, or, like, I don't have a ton of people in my life that have dealt with it, I think it's so important that we reframe pain in our minds, so that when we get to a later stage in our life where we're having to deal with some kind of pain, whether it's chronic or severe, like, pain is a part of life. All of our lives, whether it's happening all the time or if it's every once in a while, but I think we do have an interesting culture and approach to pain in America that can make it harder to deal with when we actually do get to a point where we have to deal with that. So this book really made an impact on me and as someone that doesn't struggle with chronic pain. So I can imagine how much of an impact it made for you as someone who has dealt with that. And I think it's something that's really eye opening to a lot of people or will be. Yeah, absolutely. So for sure. Hold on. And we're going to just kind of take you through some of the Concepts of this book and then intertwine some personal stories as well. All right, so Ronnie first since this book made such an impact on you Can you tell me a little bit about your experience with chronic pain? Well less for me more for our listeners. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah well, I just, have suffered, from some chronic pain, started around 2010 to 11 and, what happened was I had some kind of injury or, actually there really ended up, it looks like it was a congenital defect in my right hip where my sciatic nerve runs through. The muscle in my hip and, sitting, standing, everything was excruciating and, that led to one pain medicine after another and now a muscle relaxer and something for neuropathy that I had, nerve pain medicine. It just kind of became a slippery slope. I'll tell you that what happened was I was so desperate, I was so desperate at the time to find someone, anyone that could help me not just deal with pain, but how to live differently while realizing that this was a life sentence that I, you know, there's no surgical treatment. I tried the one and it didn't go well. So I had a lot of time on my hands and I started doing a lot of research about chronic pain and especially chronic sciatic pain. And there were a couple of pain centers, One in particular was, in Texas. and there were also a pain center in, D. C. They had one. Nothing around in the southeast at all. Really, there wasn't even pain clinics back then, but I knew that I was desperate for a change. so this time fast forward, it was probably 2015, 2016. when I moved, uh, Weston off to college as well, I had some time and I needed the time to focus. On how to get better and not just get through yeah, but how to get better and one thing that I found in these, teaching hospitals that had pain clinics or pain centers that were treating this chronic sciatica is they all had Doctors, social workers, nurse practitioners, pharmacists helping out with dosing medication. They had that. But one in particular thing that these few that I found that had some success was they all had a chronic pain psychiatrist on the team. So that led me down a road of. I need to see someone because if it's working in these, teaching hospitals and they're using this to do research, there's something to this, chronic pain, management and psychiatry that led me to, my. I am now still a psychiatrist here in Greenville, Dr. David Moore, and, I went to Dr. Moore desperate. I did not want another pain medicine. I did not want to add anything. I wanted to get off of the couch, out of my house, and live again. And so, I just sat down with him, and there was a few things that he said immediately that turned the tide for me. And it is still, it just absolutely took me to a different mode and a way to live with this pain. I think a lot of people, when you have something like a chronic pain, there is the initial of seeing everybody, getting the diagnosis, now get the treatment, the surgery. And then, you know, that thing prolongs five or six years. And you've done all that, what's next? And so I was severely depressed, anxious about everything, couldn't get out of my car to go into the grocery store. I remember sitting many times in the bilo parking lot and I just could not get out of the car because I had paralyzing anxiety and the anxiety, I knew there was a physical reason why I was anxious. It was because doing something wasn't like a Quick trip to the grocery store, having to stand in line, having to be up. I knew that it was going to cost me a lot of comfort. And so my anxiety was really on a runaway train. My anxiety now was not just the fact that I might be cooped in the house for a few days. My anxiety now was, okay, if I go to dinner. How long am I going to be able to sit there? I remember calling around and asking like, what's your seating situation? Do you have booths? I carried around, a pad, like a, memory foam pad to pretty much everywhere, all football games, and all that. But what resounded with me with Dr. Moore is he said, That pain medicines are depressants. So he was not at all surprised when he looked at my med list that I would be depressed and anxious. The second thing that he said, Was he said the more pain medicines like opioids that you take, the more you take, the more pain you have, I mean, wow, that's I've heard it from you before, but every time I just can't imagine what it must have been like to live with that and I hate that you had to go through all that, but you did persevere and you're a stronger person for it today. Absolutely. I am curious, do you think if you would have read this book before this onset in your life, do you think you would have been better prepared to deal with everything? Absolutely. I feel like that there's definitely a focus on being completely pain free. Mm hmm. In America. And, I was looking for that to be pain free, and I was on a ton of medicine. one of the medicines was called Opana. It's been pulled by the FDA. It is the precursor or the thing that has driven opioid crisis in the United States of America. And what we thought was a one to one pain medicine to morphine, this was three times. Could be three to eight times the amount. Wow. So, I was in a stupor, but still having pain., Yeah, I do think, I think there are so many things that I would change. Now going back through, I don't think I had to lose my job. I think if I'd had better coping skills and, really took the time to care for instead of just seeking this thing of how I'm going to get through this, but. Realizing I had to go around it, you know, the the shortest distance was not the least resistance So, yeah. Yeah Well, I mean like you're kind of getting into it and I kind of mentioned it earlier we have a culture around pain here and I think a lot of that comes from is the society, and especially in America, I'm sure other places as well. We kind of have the illusion that all discomfort can be controlled, like you take this drug, you do this, you do X, Y, and Z, and you can control or get rid of your discomfort. Right. And then when we do end up experiencing involuntary pain or a pain that can't be controlled because that's like what you went through couldn't have been controlled. You needed the right coping skills, like our perceptions and our attitudes can stall our preparedness and dealing with that if we're not getting ahead of it mentally. that's why we're covering this book is because we want to give you the skills that you need in case you do deal with great pain or chronic pain in the future, which, you know, Almost all of us will face severe pain in the future, so it's a good thing for us to reframe it. So in terms of reframing it, this book is kind of going into how pain can actually be a beautiful thing. Albeit uncomfortable, but it can be a beautiful thing, which sounds like almost like a wild statement. Yeah. But it's true. I mean, think about it. Our body has this magical system to alert us to danger. And if we didn't have it, where would that leave us? And what's so interesting about this book is he's working with leprosy patients who, in severe cases, they don't have the pain warning signals. Like, they're completely painless, and it's the worst thing ever. Right, right. I'm not gonna get into, like, everything that goes into it. I think a lot of you guys should read this book, but, I mean, when you don't have this natural warning system your body self destructs. Yeah, basically. Yeah. So pain can be a beautiful thing. I know early on in dr. Brands practice, he was trying to make a bionic hand that would mimic pain sensation because of the leprosy folks. And I don't know what you guys know about leprosy. I, I know that, you know, it was mentioned a lot in scripture in the Bible and, didn't even realize it's still very Very alive and well, especially in Asia and I think South America, but yeah, so no pain signals, they don't feel when they get burnt, you know, they touch something. If it's hot, they can't see it. And so before they know it, they've. You know cook their hand or stepped on something with their feet and then they have an infection and it just goes so yes I was surprised to like how many things pain alerts you to so without pain like in these severe leprosy patients Your body has no way to alert you to a variety of things like a heart attack Strep appendicitis stroke like some some stuff that's everyday things or like illnesses or colds or whatever like your body will have No idea because they don't have the capacity to Produce pain signals, I guess. So that makes you look at pain in a different perspective. And in this book, he's kind of phrasing it as like the scout of the real enemy. It's the gift that nobody wants. And it's also an instructor if you let it be. Yeah. So like you were talking about painkillers and how they kind of send you into a super and they can create more pain and more. They're not really solving the problem. It's just like a temporary fix. Painkillers can also help you like they can make you lose the power of your inner doctor. Which is, and your pain signals are a part of that. human bodies are designed incredibly beyond any, no one can fathom how amazing the human body is, and pain is just another aspect of that. And, I found it really interesting, like,, breaking down the science of it. In the book he really gets into the pain responses that we physically feel are just transducers sifting through many varieties of traumatic constant and repetitive stress signals that report into the spinal column. So that's the way the pain responses actually work, which I didn't know that before, so I found it interesting. But I just really find it intriguing like that this design was built into our bodies and how amazing it is. Like we may not like the result it gives us because it's an uncomfortable and Severe feeling but it has its uses and I think acknowledging its uses and reframing it will Just completely change your life. Yeah, maybe not like now but in the future when you do have to deal with pain I think you will your life would be changed because you're prepared to cope with it Yeah, and one thing that he mentioned, that was probably one of the saddest things about these folks that have leprosy or diabetic retinopathy, but specifically those who do not experience pain, they also can't experience touch. They don't know what it's like for somebody to comfort them because they would not feel that at all. And so while we have pain, that is a result of how we feel. It's also the reason how we can feel it's why we can feel so we know if I get sunburnt, I know to get out of the Sun. Yeah, and and so on and so forth So yeah, that's really cool. Well, not cool, but Parts of it are cool. Yes This is so inserious, but the first time I ever heard about leprosy I think I was watching the movie Ice Age and said the sloth was like leprosy Really? Anyways. Crazy. I was raised on TV. It's fine. Doubtful. Oh my gosh. Okay, so we're going to break down into A little sections here. And before we really dive into how we can cope with pain and understanding a little better, we're going to talk about the three stages of pain so we can understand that. So first is the pain signal and this is the alarm that goes off when nerve endings and the periphery sense danger. So danger, danger, danger. Yes, yes. And then secondly, that signal then sends a message and the message is the second stage. What happens with that, the spinal cord and the base of the brain act as a spinal gate to sort out which of the many millions of signals deserve to be forwarded as a message to the brain. So this is what happens when you have a lot going on. Should our bodies, if they work right, they will send the loudest message to the most crucial part of that pain. I'm just so fascinated by how that works. It is. So the third stage is response. So this actually takes place in the higher brain, especially your cerebral cortex, which is going to sort through the pre screened messages and will decide on which response to give based on the Messages it is receiving. Pain does not exist in your body or your mind until the entire cycle completes and the thing to note about the severity of the pain. It's going to depend on a variety of things. Pain is universal, but it's also subjective in a sense. So it's going to depend on your personality. What's going on like externally and what's going on in your brain at the time. And also, of course, the severity of the injury is going to affect the pain. The pain, but a lot of this focus on the book is your emotional preparedness and the power of your brain in the mix of your cultural expectations, which you can shift is going to actually alter the chemistry of your brain, which in turn will alter your response to pain. So it's very scientific, but it's also very, I don't want to say intangible, but because it deals with your mind so much, there's all like a science to it, but then again, there's not, it's almost like a whole metaphysical level of dealing with pain. Yeah. Do you agree? Yeah. Yeah. I and we'll get into, cause there's certain things that heighten pain and realizing what that is and they're not, everything can't be controlled, but there are certain things that we can look at and observe and make small changes to, to change that whole pathway. Yeah. So while we're on that note, we're going to next talk about the power of your mind with pain. And. What I heard in your story is you went to a psychiatrist and he helped you kind of shift your mind with pain and that helped you cope better. Would you say that's right? Yeah, I mean he hit, he helped me. Obviously he helped you in a myriad of ways, but. Right, but those two were the key. If those hadn't, if he hadn't have said those two things. in the first visit, I probably wouldn't have went back because I needed answers and he had them. So that started, me down the pathway of trying to get off as much pain medicine as possible. and gradually it settled back in where, you know, I could bump my elbow. And when I was on a lot of, Opiates or pain medicine it would feel like Lightning is going through it. You could do the same thing and it not even face you. Yeah, so yeah Definitely. So in adults who will have a larger pool of experience and emotions to draw on it makes the mind play an even bigger role in converting our perception of pain whereas Children, definitely not the same thing, but your perception of pain can be the difference between coping versus suffering. It's just a very big difference. what takes place in your mind is definitely the most important aspect and. Like we've been saying, we feel like this is so important because to prepare us and our listeners and anyone who will hear us out and maybe think about this, is creating your own pain insurance. So preparing yourself for future pain, which I think is really important and I feel like we tend to procrastinate a lot of things and this is probably one of them. Oh yeah. But investing in these things early is going to set you up for success later in your life. If you're waiting to craft out this pain insurance and changing your perception towards pain until you're actually experiencing it, it's gonna be really difficult to do that in the moment because pain when you feel it, it tends to demolish your objectivity and it makes it difficult to alter your perceptions and your brain chemistry that has been solidified at the time of your injury. And now you're trying to deal with the pain and you're trying to unwork your brain chemistry and change your perceptions. So I feel like that gives you an idea of the importance of it. Being proactive when it comes to pain. Here's some tips of how to train your brain and your body's response to pain. One of the major tips is the sense of gratitude. And I remember exactly where I was when I started to not feel numb again. It was along the same lines of the time frame where I was trying to back off of pain medicine and also feel because I just wanted to be numb and I did. I numbed myself. For years, because the pain was so bad. I remember specifically, we were doing, we were painting our house. We were putting hardy board siding on the concrete siding of the house that had, like, some, pine siding. And I needed to run and get some more paint. And on my way back from getting the paint. I am pulling up to my house and it's still in the distance. But what I see is my family and community all coming together and putting the siding on my house. And for the first time in a long time, I had gratitude. I was grateful. And that It's so crucial because you do get hung up with inside and what's going on and eventually people are going to stop asking questions unless they, have a really, really close connection with you. So the gratitude that I felt pulling down my driveway seeing. My husband, brothers, brother in laws, my dad, everyone working together to improve our house. And they were doing all that for me and Jim. And so gratitude is a big, big part. And it's not just a thing of like be more grateful and Your pain will get better. There's actually like a science behind this. So in this book they talk about Dr. Hans Selle Selle? Selle? Yeah. Pretty cool doctor, I'm sure, but anyways, he is a pioneer in the science of emotions and how they impact your health. And his research pretty much summed up that vengeance and bitterness as emotional responses are the most likely to produce high stress in human beings, and high stress is linked to poor health. So there's that. And conversely, gratitude is the single most nourishing response to health. And this is after decades of his research. Wow. So there is science behind how being grateful can impact your health. And it's not just like physical health. I think that's also, it also goes. It's a long ways in terms of mental health, mental health, family health, all of it. Grateful people. Yes. Yes. So he also found that factors such as anxiety and depression, which we've already talked about, can trigger attacks of pain or intensify pain already present. people, it's interesting when you talk about how pain is or painkillers are depressants. I know. Cool. So, no wonder we have a bunch of numb people walking around. Yeah, there's a crisis with painkillers on our streets. Yes, it is a real issue. So sad. Yeah. Yeah, so,, in that note, he also found that people that view pain as the enemy and tend to adopt a victim complex when they're experiencing pain or they respond with bitterness, that can make the pain even worse, kind of just like what you were saying, so. I think when we do experience pain, we have to maybe just take a moment and try to respond with gratitude because your body is using this language of pain because that is how it is designed to get your attention. So try to think about it in a gratitude sense, befriend the pain, disarm and welcome it. And it will pass and you'll be able to cope with it better. Yeah. Yeah. Gratitude is, the opposite of victim and, bitterness. So they can't coexist at the same time. You can't be bitter and grateful at the same time, and it can be hard to, just shift into a thing of, into a mindset of gratitude. Some things I like to do, and I know I'm struggling with being grateful for things around me is to either journal about it, or I'll just write a list of, like, things I can be immediately grateful for in that moment. And I think even if you are filled with bitterness or you're having trouble with what's going on around here, whatever the heck is going on, you can look at that list and just immediately. It makes me feel better. Yeah. And. Yeah, it's just great. And we should, uh, maybe do an episode on in future just on gratitude. Yeah. I like that. Yes. All right. So another tip is to listen to your pain. So don't silence it. Don't try to ignore it. Strain your ears to hear it because your body is trying to tell you something. And the majority of the medical profession, especially in America, views pain as an illness and not a symptom because your body does have a built in doctor and listening to your Your pain can help you hear it, so listen to the pain and ask yourself questions like is there a pattern to my pain? Does it tend to occur at certain times? Does it seem to relate to my job, to a relationship? Does eating affect it? I think the more we tend to tune into our pain and try and figure it out or ask questions about it, that can help us get to a solution, possibly more than that. Medical professionals be able to of course, like medical professionals have their place and sometimes you're not going to be able to just figure it out by listening to your pain. That's not really what I'm saying. But I think it has valuable insights that the medical profession tends to overlook. Yeah. Yeah. As an ER nurse for many years, my favorite patient has always been a kidney stone patient. Because I know exactly what to do to make them feel better and I would make like a little clock in my head when I would go to pull somebody back who had A kidney stone. It was like I had in my mind within three minutes. This pain will go away and I knew exactly what I needed to do to make that happen and and and that is When you look at the most painful experiences that people address, kidney stone is right up there with birthing a baby. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. a lot of people nowadays also specifically women, migraines are a big issue too. And those are the ones that you can really, if you start looking at hormonally and where you are in your cycle, a lot of those are driven by. Hormones. Dude, we could do a whole episode on like understanding the stages of your cycle and how it's impacted. Oh, that is like eye opening, mind blowing. Oh, yeah. But anyways, let's go back to pain. Yes, let's go back here. So, spiritual practices are actually a tip for this pain insurance. And even if you're not like necessarily a religious person, there are Quote unquote spiritual practices you can adopt and meditation is a big one that people from all religions or no religions use Because it's a great way to train your relaxation response in your body So meditation is an act of the mind and it triggers physiological changes in your body, which would include like a gradual lowering of your respiratory rates changes in your brave weight Brave brain wave patterns and a general decrease in your sympathetic, sympathetic. Wow. And sympathetic nervous system activities. So in other words, meditation is a great way to train your mind and your body from going to a state of inner stress, inner stress to calmness. And that's a great tool to add to your pain insurance. Yes. Yes. Because if you've only felt anxiety, it's hard to even conceptualize that there's any peace. Yeah. so yeah. Yeah. I need to get back into meditating. I had been doing it in college and. It was amazing. I felt so calm after and that calmness would persist for so long and I think it's a thing where you have to do it consistently to reap the benefits and I just need to work it back into my schedule, but it definitely is great when you do it consistently and I think it can be a great tool in this pain insurance bag for sure. Yes, yes. one of the best things you can do to prepare your pain insurance is to surround yourself with a loving community. One that will stand by you when tragedy strikes. But it goes both ways. you'll be that for them. So you have like a back and forth relationship, but then also your friends that love you, they'll celebrate when you're doing well, and they'll console you when you're not. I have Still great friend of mine. Her name is Helen and I tell her so much Not recently. I need to just retell her this but she probably got tired of hearing it because I was like I owe my life to you because She would not let me not answer my phone. If she texts me, call me, she gave me space. Cause she knew I was in a space that required a lot of me and she just did it in a perfect way. As far as, not Putting stress on me because the last thing I needed was another thing to do when you're sleeping all the time. Yeah, she did not overwhelm me. I never felt guilty But and she would give me time so she'd wait, you know, five days, seven, still absent, heard from me. The next thing I know she's pulling in my driveway. She would come over and just like Come in the house, and how are you doing? she went in this community of folks that are gonna help, you're gonna walk with. My husband needed help. He was dealing with all of this. I just I'm sorry, I just smelled a rancid dog fart. I know you can't smell, but It is atrocious. Is it Josie? No, it's definitely a Sawyer fart. Be lucky. You got a bad sniffer. I am very grateful for that. So yeah, this community, just one thing that I would challenge you to do if you're going through something heavy is even if you don't think you need That friend at that moment or you think you have nothing to give allow that person to help you because They're also helping your community And you know, both of our kids were in college We didn't want them to be bothered by this and it ended up, you know, Jim My husband, he was carrying a lot of that. My parents were worried and would check on me, and stuff. But as far as like, come and get in my face and, you know, bring me a milkshake or whatever, Helen, really was, uh, that sense of community with me. So thank you, Helen. Helen. We love you, Helen. Yes, I love that idea, and I feel like a lot of things we talk about, the importance of community is just paramount. It is. In so many different things. I think we talked about that in transitions, too. It's just having the right circle, and then also realizing it's a two way street. And that, you know, when you have needs, they'll help you, and when they have needs, you'll help them. Because we are part of a collective, and we have to help each other out. So, the last tip, as far as pain insurance goes, is the power of distraction. So, knowing how to distract yourself. Because we all carry On our necks is amazing capacity for pain management, distracting us with activities, whatever, so activities divert your mind from pain. So, whether that's hobbies, work, reading, humor, hobbies, pets, sports, etc, etc. They can be great distractors from pain, which can help you cope with it. And another thing that he talks about in this book is that coping with chronic pain. Does depend on a patient's willingness to exercise and increase productive activity despite the feeling of pain. So distraction can maybe be a way for you to help increase that productivity so that you're not feeling, I guess, useless. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Is that how you felt? Yes. You know, eventually you're just existing. You're not living. Yeah. And, and you're not even existing well. So, and this was something, this part of coping and, getting that men are fixers. So, and then Jim also as an exercise physiologist, so he, of course, was just trying to fix me, fix me, fix me all the time. and wouldn't really let me go and do a lot, but our relationship evolved. We understood once I was not numb anymore, because let me tell you, you cannot communicate with your community, your loved ones, if you're numb, that is existing, it is not living. that's another, like, I feel like existing versus living is. It's a lot like coping versus suffering. Yeah. Which is what they talk about in this book. Yeah. And the difference between it, like, no matter how severe your pain is, you can always move from a state of coping versus remaining in suffering. Right. I did some research on pain and this distraction part, they're using this a lot in dental care. And so they are allowing patients now, encouraging them, bring in your headphones, you know, listen to a book or listen to music and it works. It works. And so they, they've looked at this and, been able to like severely decrease the amount of analgesic that they need to use because of this distracting mechanism. So I'm here for it. All right. Next we're going to move on to intensifiers of pain. So being aware of this can maybe mitigate the effects of this and make sure that You're moving out of these states in order to not make your pain worse when you're dealing with it. And the first one is fear and it is by far the biggest intensifier of pain in measurable physiological ways. So the most pain I have ever been in was when I was getting an IUD put in and I've had that done twice and my anxiety and my fear going into my second time getting one put in was Paralyzing. And I felt like my second time was by far more painful, but when I look back on it, I think it probably was the fear that was Amping it up. Yeah, they're finally putting it. I was like Well, and so if you if you see that you're like, if you can experience pain for instance Weston your husband he was not somebody that I could say don't touch that. It's hot He had to he's looking at me the whole time and he's just sliding his hand over to touch it Well, if it creates pain, you know a negative response Chances are you're not going to want to do that again. So I think the fear part is what keeps us in that pain cycle it's the fear of the impending pain. Yeah, definitely And I think that's what it was for me. Yes Yes, and it's not that you know Fear is a bad thing because they talk about also knowing the difference between good versus bad fear and how to know when a bad Fear might be holding you back or Amplifying the problem or creating other problems But The thing to acknowledge is that pain is unavoidable, but misery in that living in fear state. Is optional if we can train our brains to overcome it life Changing words right there Ain't that the truth? Yes All right. The next one is anger I'm, sorry. I have a bb our friend. Her little daughter is obsessed with the characters from inside out and she's like joy and anger Oh, so adorable So I think in the United States with how much we have going on, even not today, but. There's always something going on, and I think a lot of external things and societal things are making this country, and really, I mean, anywhere, I'm sure, is a fertile ground for feelings like anger and resentment and frustration, and those are all cards from the same deck, and they're, I feel like they're very easy emotions to just slip into. Oh, yeah. For sure, if you're not being aware of it. but in terms of physiologically, if anger is not dealt with in your mind or if you're constantly angry and unable to get past that, it will actually release the poison into the body and it'll affect your health. And I'm sure if you're dealing with chronic pain and you're really angry about it, you're like, why is this happening to me? It's so unfair. I'm so angry. That's just going to make it worse. Yeah. And it sucks. Like, yeah, I'm just, it's easy to fall into the victim complex, but when we can move past that and we can move past our anger and let go of it, then we can move into more of a gratitude state because I don't think anger and gratitude go together at all. Like it's either one or the other. Yeah, for sure. The other intense fire of pain and this is probably one of the biggest ones for me when I was going through this was guilt. I felt guilty about everything. you know, I felt guilty that my, my kids, I feel like they grew up, had to grow up too fast. I felt guilty because our whole family was very active and all of a sudden, um, Vacation stopped, you know, the hiking, the biking, all that, it just stopped. And, while I would encourage them to go and do, and occasionally they would, the guys in my home were, they wanted to be with me. More than doing the activity and I knew that was coming from a place of genuine love. I was not able to receive that as genuine love because of anger and then that guilt of not being able to do what I used to do. Yeah, I can't imagine. I think that's a very normal response. Yeah, I was guilty. I felt guilty because I couldn't go to the grocery store. I felt guilty because I hate cooking. I still hate cooking, but I don't feel guilty about it anymore. Um, see, there's freedom. I'm free! I'm free! so I just felt guilty about everything and what ends up happening or what ended up happening with me is the very things that I felt guilty about. I ended up resenting. So now I'm at the point, you know, I've come through this. I'm still guilty. I still feel a lot of guilt. Well, if that is not channeled and turned around. Then it's not that you feel guilty because you couldn't do the activity. Now you feel guilty because you don't treat the person that asks you to do the activity the same. You start to resent them. Mm. It's just like the whole fear thing. Yeah. The fear of pain. If you've, if you experienced it one time, like with you in the IUD, you are, you had no idea what to expect the first time. Yeah. But the second time you did. Yeah. That made it so much worse. and, and it made it worse. and same thing, I feel like with this, this guilt. Yeah. it is a slippery slope. Mm-hmm Guilt. does not produce anything worthwhile. I think as women, it's so hard for us to forgive ourselves and it's so much easier for us to forgive others. And this may not just be a woman thing. I'm sure it's probably a human thing, but I think maybe especially for women. But anyways, self forgiveness is necessary self care, especially when you're feeling guilty about something that's out of your control. I think you still have to forgive yourself for like feeling guilty and anything else that comes along with that and be able to move past it, obviously, you know, harder, harder done than said. Yeah, yeah. But definitely, and what's interesting about this book when they're talking about Gil is they, they bring in a lot of stories about, Other doctors and chronic pain centers and they kind of connect all that to the message they're sending and they say that many counselors at chronic pain centers Report that their most challenging most pain ridden Patients are the ones with the most deep rooted feelings of guilt So that really shows you that guilt can't be an intensifier of pain right and that we have to let go of it Somehow it may not be easy and it may not be fast, but we gotta do it And the forgiveness is, first you have to forgive yourself. So, most times the hardest forgiveness to give. Yes, yes. Which is terrible, but it's true. Yeah. so the next one is loneliness. And this kind of comes in the same package of pain as it's something that. You know, it's universal. It's also very subjective and they're both things that we all experience, but they can't really be shared necessarily So I think the big message behind this is you know loneliness is an obvious intensifier of pain if you're feeling very isolated then I think it can be easier to experience other intensifiers of pain and you know, It just shows the how important it is for us to come together and pain and loneliness are central of what it means to be a human being and there's others that understand it so deeply. So if we're really trying to come together and build our community and have our village and all that, I think that just requires an understanding of loneliness. And, you know, Understanding that we have the capacity to prevent loneliness. Yes, and I did not explain that at all. Well When I think about loneliness and pain I think about you Sleep a lot because you're taking pain medicine. When you're awake, you feel guilty, anger, lonely. So those are feelings that you don't want. So let's just take more pain medicine. Yeah, or let's add a couple of drinks to that and you know, somebody on the other side of this is dealing, I know, with with some kind of addiction issue and it is a physiological This is the no one goes to bed at night. And says, tomorrow, I want to be an alcoholic. Tomorrow, I'm going to be homeless. No one intends for that to happen. But it does happen. And this part about the loneliness can really keep you numb. you will search to quiet that in your mind because however that looks like, there's a lot of people that are in a group of a lot of people, but they're still lonely. Other people are lonely because there's no one around. it looks different. It looks very different, but the side effect. It's the same. Yeah, that makes sense. Yes, absolutely So helplessness is our last intensifier of pain And I think any person any human being wants to feel like they have a place and that they're needed And that's just a very natural human thing Human desire and then suffering people and I'm sure you can relate to this from when you went through a chronic pain period is You wanted to feel like you were needed you didn't want to feel useless like you're talking about like you didn't want to just exist yeah stuff like that and they talk about for someone that experiences chronic pain or you know is limited by pain is to seek the balance of Offering help and offering too much help. So being realistic about what you're capable of And then seeking ways that you can, you know, make your way and find your place in the in between. Yeah. With that helplessness, if you are, if you're dealing with something, you know, it is so traumatic for everybody involved. I would just challenge you, find something that that friend or sister or cousin or co worker, find something that you know they're good at and ask them to help you with it. And, and it does need to be small. Yeah, it just depends. Like if you, if you have somebody that you're still going to work, they're working eight hours a day. That's a, that's a different, of course you can ask more work related stuff. the person that's been at home who's lost their job and you know, the pleasures of life or, or whatever. It wasn't like I lost them. I bent my knee to it. I did dream job, best job ever. Would still love to be doing it, but um It does change who you are. So finding something really simple So if you were thinking right now, my mom has chronic migraines For instance mine doesn't but I'm just saying if you're saying my mom has chronic migraines How can I help her? Well one way would be to support her in this phase of helplessness by saying, you know, she could maybe read a book to the, the kids, the grandchildren, just simple things that we take for granted, but it's like, if somebody asked you to do it, it does. It creates a positive, like refreshing. Yes. Yeah. And it just takes that momentum and shifts it in a way where now, You're outside of yourselves. Yeah. I think one of the best things that we can do when we are, depressed is to go serve somebody, go to the food. It's the hardest thing to do, but it will be very effective. Yes. and you will come home with a different outlook and a different attitude. I would say nine times out of 10. Yeah, for sure. I agree. And then the book they talk about again, the chronic pain centers or clinics, the ones that, assign and encourage tasks to their patients actually see reduced need for pain medication and sleeping pills? Oh, yeah. So, there you go. Yeah. Alright, we're gonna do what she said, or in this case, what he said, because we're just gonna do a quote from the man himself. The doctor that inspired this book, Dr. Paul Brand. So, I'm going to have Ronnie read this quote. His quote is, Pain is a priceless essential gift, of that I have no doubt, and yet only by learning to master pain can we keep it from mastering us. So, pain can be seen as a gift, in the fact that it does send signals. That say this is danger ahead and it'll take work to get your brain to view it that way Yes, so practice now if you aren't someone that experiences chronic pain create that pain insurance Try it out. Yes, at least see how it goes for you I I definitely think there's some valuable insights from this book, which is obviously why we're covering it Yeah, and I recommend anyone that was interested by this or wants to learn more definitely read this book Yeah, really good and it is a religious book to preface that we didn't include all the religious stuff in it Because we don't really want to center our podcast on that. So just be aware. If that's something you want to read, you don't have to. But there is some very valuable scientific evidence in there. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. for this week's challenge We are going to for a week straight seven days. We're gonna end the day So we and Ronnie are gonna do it where we tell each other Yeah, every day at the end of the day five things that we're grateful for And we're gonna see how that makes us feel at the end of the week. I'm sure it'll make us feel great And and with very little repeats so you can't say the same five things I'm thankful for free dogs and my husband and my best friend. Yes. Yeah. Yeah Um, really, you know the first couple of days is probably going to be easy. Yeah, but then As you really drill down in there, you're, I know that you're going to discover something that you've taken for granted for a very long time and just reframing that in your mind is a part of a healing process to pay insurance. So yeah, whether you want to write it down, tell your partner. Do it with a friend, text each other about it. We want to challenge you guys to do that with us. So write down, tell somebody five things you're grateful for at the end of every day for seven days straight. And we want to hear from you guys. So if you do that and you thought it really had amazing benefits just in a week, let us know and you can let us know the things you're grateful for. Cause we want to share positivity. We want to hear positivity from you guys. Yeah. Well. Well, that's the end of this episode. Thank you guys so much for joining us again. We have some, fun things coming up in the next couple of weeks. thank you so much for listening. We're so happy you joined us and we'd really love it while you're here. Take the time to leave us a review, you know. If you're watching on YouTube, you know, do your part. Leave a heart. Leave us a comment. We love it. It makes us so, so happy and it also helps us build this business so we can reach more people. So, thank you, thank you. We really appreciate every one of you. Thank you and goodbye!