Generational Tea

Therapy Isn't Weakness | A Generational Discussion on Mental Health Stigmas Over Time

• Kaina Gillespie

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We’re getting generationally juicy in today’s episode, diving into the emotional battleground of "just tough it out" versus "just go to therapy." For so many women—especially from older generations—resilience meant silence, and strength looked like pushing pain down and powering through. But as the tides shift, younger generations are raising eyebrows at the whole “grin and bear it” model, asking instead: what if healing is the real strength. We explore how each of us was raised to (or not to) process hard emotions, the mental health stigmas we’ve had to unravel, and the difference between emotional suppression and emotional endurance. From stoicism and stress to burnout and breakthroughs, this episode takes a compassionate, honest look at how generational mindsets around therapy, self-awareness, and vulnerability are changing—and why that matters. Whether you’ve ever asked yourself “Am I just being dramatic?” or “Why is it so hard to ask for help?”—this one’s for you. Bring your tissues and your inner child, because we’re not toughing it out anymore. We’re talking it out.

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Who's in the Criminal minds thing? Matt Sarason, the guy from Friday Night Lights, the actor, I don't know his name, but he's in it. Oh my goodness. That's another one too. If anybody has, I could too Over and over and over. Love that show for one reason in particular. Oh, for sure. The eye candy is on point. Oh my God. It's just the head coach. No one else I'm attracted to. I know is him. He is the man. Yeah. That's what we'd be doing on our days off. Just like we were talking about serial killers and different things like that, I think true crime, we are gonna talk about, therapy and whether or not we're gonna tough it out or go to therapy and what some of the stigmas are around therapy, especially maybe in the Bible belt. Yeah, yeah, definitely. I think this is a great generational topic, and I think my generation has shifted more towards being open to therapy and emotional self-growth more so than yours because mm-hmm. Have you ever heard of. Back in my day, we didn't have time to feel we were too busy. But yeah, this, this topic might ruffle some feathers, just like our last one, but I guess mm-hmm. That's how every generational topic is gonna be. Oh yeah. But yeah, like Ronnie said, we're just gonna talk about the generational gap between the idea of like pushing through it versus girl go to therapy, please. Yes, yes, yes. And this brings front and center this question. Am I weak for needing help versus is this just life being hard? Which is a question I've asked myself many, many times. Yeah. Yeah. So what we're gonna do, we're gonna kind of get into some of the coping skills and, cultural conditioning, like we said before, generational differences, of course. Therapy and healing middle ground. So. Really, really a lot out there. So let's just dig in. Well, before we dive in. Oh, welcome to Generational tea. We all, we just get too ahead of ourselves. Yes, we do. Too. Excited? Yes. Well, I am Cana and this is Ronnie and we are so glad you guys have tuned in to us today. Um, yeah, so the Tough It Out era, it's very, much what I lived in. Mm-hmm. It's not as much what I did, but it's how I saw my mom's generation deal with stuff. And I feel like your generation was almost like the bridge to my generation getting worse. It. Yeah, I, I do. So You're welcome. You're welcome. Thanks. Setting us up for success. I appreciate Exactly. Well, yeah. Can you share any like perspective or maybe experiences you have, regarding this?'cause you did kind of grow up in the grin and Barrett generation. Yeah. And that was kind of your parents' mentality, if you agree with that. Yes, yes. So how do you think that affected you growing up? Oh my gosh. Knocked in. It was in the most incredibly dysfunctional way. It was, very hard because you had hurt people who were hurting people. You had generations passing down before them to my parents' generation. So it was just kind of like each time it almost got a little bit worse. Like this is in your head. Especially being in the Bible belt, this is something that I have recognized in a lot of people my mom's age and such is, toughing it out was especially like in a husband and wife team, toughing it out. The women that toughed it out really and truly have the thinking of, I'm gonna be rewarded in heaven because I've toughed this out. Almost like a rite of passage and almost like, it almost elevated the trauma because they saw it as, I'm gonna stay with this and I'm gonna tough it out because. That's what God wants me to do. That's what my church says to do. Women are supposed to be silent, so I can't imagine their generation and what they had to do. And I really do feel like they, in my case, people did the best they had with what they knew. Yeah. But the problem was, eventually in order to grow and change and change the generation that you pass down, you have to go through, some realizations that maybe what you've been taught is not, and so that's a crisis of belief right there. Mm-hmm. And, I feel like that the generations, like I said right before us, it, it was really, really like, oh, I'm gonna stick this out because there'll be crams in heaven for this. That's how people stayed. I believe, like, especially in my. Bible belt area. That's why people stayed together. Yeah. It wasn't, I was gonna say, like, I, I think maybe you suffered this worse than maybe anywhere else in just the United States because Yes, I think, uh, there's a theme with people of a, like really any faith, but especially Christianity in the South, like even my mom, who is very devout, doesn't really, I guess, believe in therapy and she kind of thinks a lot of the same things. And I do think that's based off of what the older generation taught her and she clings to her faith and says like, this has to be enough for me. And it's like the same thing you said, like, I'll get a crown in heaven for being so strong and handling this by myself. Right. But I hate that for her. Yes. Because I think she could be in a better place mentally than she is. But that's very, very insightful to all the things you just said. Yeah, so, um, we'll we can talk a little bit more specifics later, but I do believe, and here's the thing, as much as I want that generation to change for the better at this point, it's not going to, unless there is a major something that happens. So I think, you know, it's just generation layered after generation of people who have not dealt with issues, who have continued to stuff them down and, you know, kind of step out of the game in some senses. Like, yeah, I can't do anything about that, so I'm just gonna ignore it. And that's another big thing that I grew up with. If you don't talk about it, it does not exist. That is huge. Yeah. That is. Yes. That's definitely common theme with the tough out era. Yes, yes, yes. I know it was very lonely for these ladies. Mm-hmm. It was lonely because they felt the pressure to keep some persona around other family, around church friends, you know? And it was almost like, yeah, it was like the big, dirty secret. And I feel like every family had one of those. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Whether, whether it was addiction, whether it was abuse, whether it was neglect, whatever. I feel like every family, every household, just like we know everyone is dealing with their own stuff, I feel like every household that I know of, people. There was dysfunction. Mm-hmm. But it was never talked about. And if you don't talk about it, then you don't have to deal with it. And then also the, the secret it, you know, we know that there's, there's no power in secrecy. Yeah. Until you're able to walk it out and take off the blinders and be real with yourself. There's no growth. You can't have growth if you're hiding things. Yeah. And also secrecy breeds shame, which Oh, has a lot of detrimental effects over time. Right, right. And I do believe that these women, were like, well, if I just did better, he'd be happy. Or if I just did better, you know, maybe he won't do this again. Or every time it's like, it's the last time, this is the last time it's gonna happen. So then you have children of that family that have no idea what to do with whatever, and are terrified to talk about it. At all. And then you have, you may have two or three siblings, or your case three. So then you have all of those people in this household that are all trying to deal by not dealing. So, you know, it's kind of like if your parents don't talk about certain things as a child, Children have an amazing way to make everything their fault. Yeah. And it's it, and, and, and I, and I believe that its, you have to be talked out of that. You have to have therapy to get out of that. Yeah. So you've got this just dysfunction and, the secrecy and the shame. And then you had almost like the double standard, what happened at home never happened in public. So as children, you're still trying to figure out, well, how to blame yourself. How to blame yourself. Like, I didn't clean up well enough or, you know, maybe I stayed out too late I may not have gotten punished for it. And this is just an example, not, not a personal thing, but if I stayed out late, the person that was, that dealt with that the next morning was not the man, it was the woman. Because again, she feels like she's gotta somehow manage the, the expectation and the influx of ideas and coping skills and stuff like that. So it, no one does this, no one does this because they want to. Yeah. Yeah. It just, it just happens. And you know, I know a lot of people that have in that generation that have kind of, moved past that, and had great conversations with their children. And really, that's a huge thing. So if you're listening to this and maybe you didn't handle certain things, it, you know, we as children, we know you're not a hundred percent responsible, because we felt a part of that responsibility and just a, a, a talk of saying, this was not your fault. You did not cause this. I was not strong the, you know, or I, I didn't have the power. I didn't have the means to try for a separation or get help. So on and on it goes. This is really interesting. Like I've, I've always known that was a theme in older generations, but I've never really had a conversation with like my parents or like anyone older than a millennial about this. So hearing your insights, especially as someone that grows up in the south, is. Really enlightening and also as someone that grew up in the technological era and also the era of therapy and all that stuff and having access to these types of tools and it being more normalized than it was for you guys. Yeah, like I know the benefits that it's had on me and I honestly can't imagine where I would be without like therapy, without honestly like social media.'cause I tend to consume a lot of stuff that's more like therapy talk or whatever it is, self-help stuff on social media and like hearing people share their stories on social media and like what helps them and like their emotional growth. Like I've learned from that. And so I'm just thinking about generations before me that never had that. And then they were also fighting this stigma of you have to be strong. You don't need you. Like if you ask for help, you're weak. Whatever it is, it's right. It makes me really sad. So definitely shout out to everyone that didn't grow up like I did because. I can't imagine how hard that must have been and how conflicting it must have felt to feel like you were maybe losing your mind or you're just lost or whatever it is. And you were afraid to ask for help because there's a stigma around it. Yeah. Just shout out to all you women who powered through that and wherever you got to today, you did the best with what you had. Yeah. Yeah. Like you were just saying, did this really happen or am I, did I make this up? If you see things and you internalize them, but no one else appears to have seen them or it happened to them because the shame also it, it breaks communication within the family. Mm-hmm. So you have siblings that live in the same house, but never talk about the issue. Never. Yeah. Never brought up, never. I'm talking never. Yeah. So that part about what you said about, I kind of second guessing yourself all the time. I, I still deal with that. Mm-hmm. I still, that whole imposter syndrome thing I still deal with, you know, I still deal with that. Yeah. Because, you know, you, talk yourself out of what's really going on in order to make it, pretty and to make it nice and neat. Yeah. Yeah. But, well, you got this girl. You've come so far. You have been to therapy. You're doing it so many times. Well, it's, it's definitely, it's not a onetime use kind of situation. Right, right, right. But yes. Well, if anyone that's probably like older than a millennial, do any of these phrases sound familiar? Don't air your dirty laundry. What happens in this house stays in this house. So, like you were talking about mm-hmm. Silencing and secrecy. Yeah. And crying won't solve anything. Um, no, sir. Crying is actually a great release for your parasympathetic nervous system. Yes. You, you should do it because it'll a hundred percent make you feel better. Yeah. Crying and it makes your skin feel good. If you ever had like a really good cry, it just cleanses your skin. Or you just take like a three hour bomb nap after. Yes. I know. You're so exhausted after it. Yes, it's true. It's true. So let's talk about where some of these things come from and where they spill into. So, like we said earlier, there is a cultural theme to this idea of toughing it out and mm-hmm. A lot of these things we still see today. So I'm not gonna spend a ton of time on this, this first one because I am not a black woman, so I cannot give my. Personal expertise on it. But I have heard, and I do have a lot of African American friends that have shared how this trope has negatively affected them, and that's the strong black woman trope. I'm sure a lot of people have heard of it. A lot of other things, and maybe this will sound familiar to you, Ronnie, is that idea of southern stoicism. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Sound familiar? Mm-hmm. I think that relates to a lot of what you just talked about. Yeah. And also gendered expectations of silence and strength. And I do think this is very pervasive to men in particular. I think especially like in my generations, it's become a lot easier for women to talk about things and not be afraid to speak out and know what strength really is. But I do think this is an issue that men still struggled with. And I think a lot of this comes from like this idea of toxic masculinity and this idea that they need to be X, Y, and Z. And if they do any of these things, they're like feminine or they're not strong or whatever. Right. They're a real man, which is right bs, but it's a thing that happens. Yeah. I mean, you can, you can be a, quote unquote real man and be miserable because you're not really dealing with the stuff. Now, my kids, I didn't do a lot right. But this is one thing I did, I, I opened up like discussion for emotional things. Jim and I were, we were not people that saved things until a later date or like shut down arguments and handle them outside. There are some arguments that you should never have in front of your kids, but there's other things that are everyday stuff that happens that if you see the argument, but you never see the makeup everything is catastrophized. Mm-hmm. They, they're having an argument, they're gonna get a divorce, I'm gonna be, you know, split up. I mean, it just plays in your head so well as someone that, overheard a lot of arguments and never saw the making up. Yeah. It messed me up. So, yeah, you definitely did that. Right? And you also, I mean, you definitely did like. I think you guys raised Weston and Garrett on the right idea of being a man because my husband is not ashamed to communicate with me. Mm-hmm. He's not ashamed to share how he's feeling. He's not ashamed to cry. Mm-hmm. And so that's a testament to how you raised him, which is Yeah. The right way. Yeah, so we would, I mean, like we might have a discussion and then if it's something that it can't be handled right, then I, we would come back to them and say, Hey guys, I, I messed up. This is what I own in the argument. This is how we came to, an agreement and these are the next steps in order to hopefully not allow that to happen. Those things mean so much to a kid. The comfort and the security of just that you can have nothing. You could live in a cabin deep in the woods. you know, completely off the grid be dirt poor. But if you have somebody in your life, if you have that role model, you can overcome anything. I feel like if you know how to resolve tensions, how to communicate what those tensions were, maybe where they came from, what you own about it as the parent and both parents can't just be one always doing it. And then how to move forward, past it. Yeah, definitely. Well, let's talk a little bit briefly about the positives about this type of era. Yes. Because we can't just rag on it completely because Yes. One thing I think it does promote is resilience, AKA grit, and this idea of like staying calm in the chaos, which are all great virtues to have, but I think the ultimate idea is that we're building these things, but we're also seeking help when we need it. Mm-hmm. I think that's the general theme. But I do think that this idea of having grit and resilience through Yes, all of life's craziness and what it can throw at you, it did help promote that, which is great. But also on the negative side, a lot of things you talked about emotional suppression, health issues. Because when we're suppressing our emotions, guess what happens over years and years and years? They get stored in our body and that causes you to have health issues. Mm-hmm. And they start to manifest physically instead of emotionally. Mm-hmm. And that is not good. Mm-hmm. And we also have that sneaky little friend called repressed trauma because if you're just silent and you never talk about it, it's just gonna stay there. Yeah. It's not gonna get outta your body. And that's what we want. Yeah. So yeah. Toughing it out is great moral of the story until you're crying into a Costco rotisserie chicken and calling it girl, girl dinner. That's true. That is so true. So Cana, let's talk about therapy being not weakness, but a strategy. Yeah. Well, I, I did already kind of say like I am very appreciative of the generation that I grew up in and how it was just more open to talk about things. I will say I kind of did get a little bit of the former because like I said, my mom is not a believer in therapy and I think she definitely internalized the tough it out era in some of the worst ways and mm-hmm. I mean, I do think my, my parents did the best job with what they could, and yeah, from my understanding they did a heck of a lot better than their parents did. So I'm very thankful to them. But I also think that some of my mom's beliefs and my parents never really seeking therapy. I just remember growing up and I didn't really think that they were happy and. Just watching them like suffer through it, I guess, instead of seeking help, kind of made me internalized to do the same. Mm-hmm. So I didn't actually go to therapy until I was in college and I felt like I was desperate at that point. Mm-hmm. Which is not what you want. Therapy is like preventative maintenance. It's not go when you're like hanging on. Yeah. Yeah. What happened? And I, I felt weak for going to therapy. Like, I didn't like the way it made me feel just like thinking about going. I think that's'cause of the beliefs that I internalized, but I am still glad I did because it was a great experience for me. I realized how helpful it was and I feel like that was finally the shift I had into, okay, I need help. I'm not okay. And then here I am a few, few years later, I am nowhere near emotionally whole, I'm working towards it and I'm very thankful to have the resources and things that are normalized that I need. Yeah. Yeah. I'm very, very thankful that there's open conversations about mental health now, about having boundaries, about healing your inner child and getting your trauma out. Yeah. All of that is so great and I'm thankful that we're here and I hope we can build on that because I do think that like for in the, in the South, I think it's moving a little bit slower because of a lot of the things you talked about and we both kind of agreed. It's the tough it out mindset tends to be a little bit worse there, so mm-hmm. I hope we can build on that for all generations, wherever you live, all that. I think the idea of like breaking generational curses became really prevalent and like the millennial, gen Z, my generation, and I think that's great and I just, I love where this is heading, but I think that, like I said earlier, it's a balance of both, like focusing on being resilient and having gr, but also knowing when you need help, recognizing we need help and being able to seek it without feeling shame or feeling like you're weak. All that stuff. Right. Yeah. Love that. So let's talk about some signs that toughing it out just isn't working. So if you're experiencing a lot of these frequently, that may be a sign that you do need to seek help, so, mm-hmm. Chronic anxiety, guilty sleep issues, also guilty, irritability, guilty. Applying currently in therapy with an awesome other signs, feeling stuck, disinterested, emotionally numb. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Guilty. Yeah. Or maybe you can't stop doom scrolling on social media or every relationship you just spiral and it never works out. So, yeah. Yeah. Those are signs that maybe you need to heal something within you and you need to grow. And it's okay if you don't think you can handle it by yourself and. Honestly, you might not be able to if it's a theme you've had your whole life. Right. And you need to seek help. Um, that's interesting about the, doom scrolling because, through social media, people use that as an escape to not deal with reality. Yeah. So we're not saying that social media is bad for you, but if you are finding yourself, like checking out a little bit and just scrolling and, you know, while the TV's on, maybe every other people are there, but you're just scrolling'cause you don't want to, you know, it's just a coping me mechanism. It is, for sure. Yeah. It's definitely a good indicator for myself on like, when I need to look inwards. If I'm always like doom scrolling on social media. Mm-hmm. Or whenever I like, feel a tough emotion or whatever I like, tend to dissociate from my body and just like go emotionally numb. So that's been a good indicator for me too. Mm-hmm. That it's not working. I need help. Right, right. So let's talk about what therapy actually is. Well, what it's not is laying on a couch talking about your mom unless you have mommy issues or whatever. It's definitely not that. Um, if you do, it's okay because I It's okay. Yeah, exactly. It's totally okay. It helps you develop things like tools, patterns, boundaries, self-regulation, healing, old wounds to go forward. yeah. I think, well in my therapy experience, yeah. Just like saying things out loud has helped me make realizations. Even it's something that like, I know intrinsically, but like I've never said out loud, where I've never like really confronted it verbally with like another person. Mm-hmm. Just saying them out loud has been like. Like a switch goes on in my mind, and then I'm just like, wow. Right. Silence does not work. You have to say things and that'll jumpstart you to go on your healing journey. Right, right. And that's why women need, I mean, community men do too. That's why we all need community. Mm-hmm. Because I, I mean, I feel like this podcast has been a therapist to me because saying things out loud is like, oh, I haven't really dealt with that. And we'll get into it a little bit later, but some of, some of your issues are gonna be fluid. They're gonna wax and wane and different things may come up based on what your experience is at that time. Mm. So don't be so hard on yourself. Yeah. And don't think that, you know, well, I tried therapy. It didn't work. You tried it once, maybe twice. Give it another. Thought. Yeah, because, yeah, I, my first therapist that I worked with, I don't think it was a good fit, so I never really got into deep issues because I wasn't comfortable. Yeah. But I had another therapist a little bit later and it was like a game changer. Mm-hmm. I just felt like we clicked. It was so much easier for me to just like spill my guts to her. Yeah. So it's definitely a matter of finding the right therapist. Right. Also, let's talk about some different kinds of therapies because it's not all just one-on-one. So if that makes you uncomfortable, like there's so many options, whether that is just traditional talk therapy one-on-one. Mm-hmm. You can do group therapy. Life coaching in some instances can also serve as a form of therapy. CBT, which is cognitive behavioral therapy, I know is a really popular one. I have been hearing a lot about somatic therapy. So for people like me that tend to like intellectualize their emotions, somatic therapy is focused on like. Understanding and feeling versus intellectualizing and talking about it. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So I've seen that one a lot. Another therapy that's been popular for people that have trauma or really distressing experiences they had process is EMDR. So it's eye movement, desensitization and reprocessing therapy. So it's a mouthful. I don't know that much about it, but if it sounds like something you could benefit from, you can definitely look it up and find out more. And there's therapists with, I think, specific certifications to do. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Like these specialized forms of therapy. Mm-hmm. another thing I did in the past, it's kind of a different form of therapy. Well, I mean it's still therapy, but different options. Is this app called Better Help? And it was like really cheap for me. Uh huh And you can, you can do like a phone call with a therapist. You can chat with them. So if you don't feel comfortable, like talking on the phone to a therapist or you can do a video call. So if you're not comfortable with like traditional therapy face-to-face, there's other options for you to still be able to access all the benefits with therapy, but within a space that you're comfortable in. Yeah, that's the key. Finding something that you're comfortable in and if you need to switch therapists, don't worry. It's not personal and I do believe that they don't take it personally either, so No, I don't think so. You're right. If they do, they're probably not a good therapist. Yeah. Oh my gosh. So one of the biggest myths is you don't have to be falling apart to go to therapy. So you may be in a good space right now. But maybe you look back in the past and you're like, Hmm, I wish I'd handled that differently. You know, I got through it. Or just to release negative emotions, things that you probably haven't even thought about in years sometimes can happen. And they are truly educated and have been trained on how to ask the right questions to get to, you know, the other layers of the onion to go deeper mm-hmm. Into it. So, yeah. All right. Well now that we've talked about kind of both sides and both generations and both outlooks, let's kind of talk about the nuance of the InBetween. So being strong and also seeking support. We're gonna say it louder for the people in the back journal. And you can have a therapist, you can cry and still be a boss. Yes. Yes. You can do both. It's not. I'm weak and I need therapy. You can do both, right? You can be strong and you can go to therapy and seek help, and you can be strong in so many areas. And then what we tend to do as humans is if we are strong in those areas, we tend to maximize on those. Especially like if you're a boss and you, you can kind of talk yourself out of a weakness. Or, I mean, there's times where you don't need to focus on your weakness. There's also times where you need to, you know, reflect and see how did I handle that? Yeah. Um, yeah. And busyness is probably your biggest stiller, like overscheduling being too busy, not taking time to do that. So if you do have a stigma of therapy for whatever reason, doesn't matter what it is. I think. This is a kind of great point. Yeah. And it's also something that like made me, reconsider me, toughing it out and suffering through the pain and just thinking, I'll figure it out someday. I won't always be like this. I'll just have to suffer through it. Right. So think about emotional fitness versus physical fitness. our brain is arguably a bigger part of our lives than our physical body. Like the physical body is just a vessel. Mm-hmm. We are essentially our brains. Everything happens up here. Mm-hmm. So why are we not training and obsessing over our emotional fitness like we do with our physical attributes, especially women? Yeah. We tend to be very focused on our physical appearance, which mm-hmm. Is an issue, but we're not gonna talk about that today. Yes. So therapy is like hiring a personal trainer for your brain. It's hiring someone that is an expert about. What happens up in here so that you can better understand yourself and look at yourself objectively and process things and whatever it's mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That's great. So, some co coping tools for the middle ground where, maybe there are certain, roadblocks to therapy at this time, or you're, you're still tough and get out journaling. you can rage write, I'll tell you, and, and earlier in our marriage, I still have journals and, oh God, I just, I told God on Jim so badly if he finds one of those journals, I am in deep trouble. But it was my therapy, those lines on that paper, me just getting that out. And, so it, it did definitely help. But, like saying it out loud, writing it can help. Mm-hmm. And then I would suggest once you write it, read it out loud to yourself. Mm-hmm. So then you're getting a two-pronged effect. Yes. Um, I love journaling. Like I've never not felt better after I journal. Mm-hmm. And I think if you do it consistently, which I've been trying to do more, it's, it's been helpful for me to like, reflect on myself and like, look how much I've grown. And also like mm-hmm. Identify patterns within myself if I'm like going back and reading previous journals. Mm-hmm. So I did this like a month ago and it was insane because I wrote something that I needed to hear like two weeks ago when I read it. And I like literally just cried because. I like, forgot that I wrote that and I forgot that it was important to me. And then I read it and I was like, oh my gosh. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Journaling is the best. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Another way that you can cope during the middle ground, is practicing boundaries. Setting the boundaries. To me, this is, this is the bottom line. If we can get this. I feel like so many things fall in line after, you know, establishing the boundaries, communicating the boundaries. Mm-hmm. I believe is a huge thing too, because I feel like you can set a boundary. But when you've said to that person, I can no longer drink the poison, or, you know what I'm saying? Like, I wouldn't say that. Yeah. But, but you can say, you know, you're not, the access is, is denied now. Or, you know, I have some, personal stories about all that, but that would get me in big, big, big trouble. So put that away. Yes, yes, yes, yes. You can DM us if you need a little one-on-one. Yes. Oh my gosh. Also just checking in with trusted people like we were talking about earlier. I feel, I definitely feel like women, we do this pretty well. Somebody explained to me one time that men do things side by side hunting, fishing. Playing sports, all those things are things that they're doing with somebody. Women, when we are with our friend girlfriends, we do things face to face. Mm-hmm. We're yapping. Yeah. Yeah. But, but you know, we're eating, we're having a drink where, you know, so also, you know, when we're talking about men and our husbands and such, maybe keep that in mind that they tend, we tend to like go a certain way. Um, and, and maybe you can help encourage if they do need. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think an important note on that as far as like checking in with your friends as far as like healing in the middle ground, I think it's important, and again, we've talked about the importance of your inner, inner circle is to have friends that are not going to enable you. They're gonna be honest with you. So that like when you do check in with them and you maybe say something you're struggling with, or. They've noticed something about you that you're self-harming or whatever it is. Like yeah. You need to have friends that are gonna want the best for you, even if it means saying something uncomfortable to your face or whatever it might look like. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think in order to be a good friend, you have to be willing to lose the relationship. If you see that there's something happening and you need to say it. Mm-hmm. Just being willing to say it without being afraid to lose that friend. Yeah. And say it with love and compassion, but sometimes you have to address something that could potentially Yeah. Dissolve that friendship. This book that maybe we could do one day on the podcast called All About Love by Bell Hooks. It kind of like talks about. We throw this word love around so much, but like what does it actually mean when you love a person in the right way? Right. Right. And it means, essentially from that book, their definition of love was wanting the best for someone mentally, physically, spiritually, all of that. And I think at some point, like you might have a situation with a friend where the best for them might be something that cost you the friendship. Mm-hmm. Because you might be the only person who's observed that they're doing some like form of emotional self harm and you have to tell them, or whatever it is, they're an abusive relationship and you tell them that, you know, you sit them down and tell them what you're observing and it might cost you the friendship, but maybe that will be the journey for that person to get to that better place. Emotionally. Yeah. Spiritually. Physically. Right, right. You can think about that as just like really throwing out a lifeline. You're throwing out a lifeline to a friend, you see the destruction or whatever, and you're willing to risk, and that kind of thing. Yeah. I don't know if I explain, explained that right, but I know what you're saying. Yeah. For you, what shifted your view of therapy or emotional openness? What was the turning point from you growing up? Growing up in the tough at out era and as someone who is very emotionally intelligent and has sought therapy, what was the changing point for that? Okay. It's gonna be life changing. Tune in, lean in, desperation. Desperation. I was married, had two little kids, was continuing to deal with some generational stuff. And I was desperate. I had, just toughed it out for so long. And not really knowing that that's what I was doing. Not knowing that therapy would help if you're not ever introduced to therapy and nobody in your circle of friends or, you know, really talks about it. Um mm-hmm. It wasn't a stigma for me because I, I needed something. I didn't care. I didn't care who knew, I didn't care how much it would cost. I was willing to do whatever it took. And so we, Jim and I together, we probably had our first therapy session around. Around maybe two to three years in the marriage. Mm-hmm. Uh, because I didn't have anything else to lean on. I had my faith, but I brought all this trauma into a relationship and then started having kids and just needed to break some generational things. And so, we went to therapy to learn how to do that, which was huge. If you're having a major, sometimes you go to therapy not just for yourself, but you go to them in order to learn how to take next steps. Mm-hmm. Yeah. If everybody was a therapist, we wouldn't need therapy. We understand there are certain people that are therapists and they are trained in a way specifically to help with some of those. And so, the therapist at that time was like. Here's some things that you need to do, you know, and, and wrote out some things. And then just throughout our marriage, in and out of therapy, and sometimes it was desperation after that, but the initial thought of saying, I've got to have something different. I've seen generation after generation of this not working. What I'm doing is not working. And I started to see patterns that I was repeating, and I still deal with that. It's like sometimes different things come up, cope with things, different things like that change. And sometimes you need a tuneup so that was my big thing with therapy. And I guess the reason why I continued with therapy, was because, I realized that I was self-sabotaging. Hmm. My marriage, you know, thinking like, well, he's gonna do this, so I'm just gonna give him another reason to do it. You know, like he's tightening in on me. Do not back me into a corner. I will bite you. And I knew that, that I, I, I'm like a bulldog back me into the corner and I'll, but, uh, but, but honestly, you know, like I knew that I wasn't gonna be able to hold this together. I had no, I was totally out of my league. And, Jim as well. Uh, you know, so when you have two broken people that come together, they continued to not only break each other, but everything else within that path. So we just continued on here and there. When different issues came up and such. So probably am getting ready to get back into therapy.'cause I feel like I've, I've had some things that, you think you've dealt with something. And honestly, don't be so hard on yourself. You've dealt with something. If it comes back up, it doesn't mean that you didn't deal right the first time. It can mean you needed more sessions. Or maybe you realize that there's another facet to, you know, I, I, I, I tell you, I refuse to be managed. I refuse. Mm-hmm. And that's a problem. And I have to watch it, you know, because I'll be like, you will not manage me. I refuse to be managed. I am my old person. I am a bulldog. Um, and, and not in a great way. Some of that, that's for you being a bulldog that. Go to therapy. Yes. Yes. But I will tell you, don't, don't expect if you're in my generation or perhaps you're in, another generation, don't expect everybody that's never talked about therapy to understand what you're doing and be happy for you. You do it for yourself. You may not ever talk about it. I know. I, I feel like it was years before I, I ever talked about some of the stuff that I had learned with other parts of my family. Jim and I had this, but yeah. So, KA, tell us about this. Well, I have a question based on a lot of things I've said already. I definitely did internalize the belief that I didn't need therapy, I just needed to figure it out myself, which I had to unlearn that for sure. Mm-hmm. That I cannot self sustain on just my. Pure will, right. Or emotional strength. I do need help and I have struggled with mental health issues ever since I was probably 15, 16 years old. And I think just from the things I observed, I internalized these beliefs. But also I do remember when I was probably around 16 and I asked someone I trusted and I told them, I think I need to go to therapy. And they essentially told me that that's not the answer and to look elsewhere. Mm-hmm. And as a 16-year-old, I was just like, okay. I guess like if that's how they do it, then I guess that's how I have to do it. I'll figure it out. Mm-hmm. And then it took me kind of becoming my own person and moving to college and expanding my worldview, and also just meeting different people that had different experiences growing up and they didn't have those limiting beliefs. And so that's what led me to give therapy a try. Mm-hmm. And. Here I am today. I think I have learned a lot about what it means to be strong, and that doesn't mean that I never seek help, because I definitely need it. Right. And I think on the side note of therapy, I also wanna mention medication because that was another thing I struggled even after I not gave in, but I admitted that I needed therapy and I wasn't able to deal with these issues myself. I still, for the longest time, did not want to try medication for anxiety or depression because that was like another thing that I thought I was being weak if I tried it. Mm-hmm. And, which is crazy for me to say, but absolutely is the belief that I was telling myself in my head. And when I finally did try an antidepressant, my life was never the same in the best way possible. Right, right, right. Yeah. So, yeah, I, I probably was put on. Anti, well, it was right after Weston was born. I had terrible postpartum depression and talked, I mean, Jim knows everything, but almost, almost had an affair. It was just a bad scene all the way around. So started on, um, medication and have never gotten off. I've gotten switched to a different medication, but honestly, that is the least of my worries. If I have to take that every day for the rest of my life in order to, to keep some sanity within myself and within my family, I will. Yes. I used to tell Jim, I'd be like, I'm taking the medicines because you won't. So if you're not gonna help with the medicines, I'm gonna take something so I can cope with you. Which he should have been telling me that.'cause I had the mess, I was the messy one in the relationship. But yeah, I'm glad you brought, I, I'm glad you brought up the thing about up medication and yeah, some people need it for a time period and then they go off. Other people need it because there's a chemical imbalance. But you know, I'm just thinking, I don't know anybody that personally that could benefit from therapy and maybe a little antidepressants. Sure. There's a lot going on in our world. Oh man. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Another great point, Ken, that you, found was, healing is not linear, so there's no shame in figuring it out as you go. And I, that was something that I dealt with like a lot of absolutes, you know, so it was kind of like, I need to figure this out so it never happens again. Mm-hmm. And always, and never shouldn't really be in our personal vocabulary when we're talking about situations.'cause they do change. So if, if, if something rears its head back up, it could be 10, 15 years later. Don't be mad at yourself. You dealt with it at that time. But like you said, I. Uh, other things happen, different stressors come different stages of life. And so just understanding it's okay. You can figure it out as you go. And you know, as parents it is okay to say to our children, I don't know, but let me get back to you on that. Yeah. Sometimes that's the best thing you can say. Yes, it is. It is. Other than, tell me more. Like, tell me more about that. I'll, I'll, I try to remember, you know, if I'm in an awkward situation or it's somebody, that I sense there's some tension or whatever people love to talk about themselves, ask them questions, not personal questions to start out with, but like, open the dialogue and then don't feel like you have to have all the answers. Mm-hmm. Don't we have amazing tools now to find those? Yeah. So use them and also, you know. I still feel like there's a lot of the dressing things up and putting them in a nice lit little neat box, especially in the area that, that I live in. Mm-hmm. Still, I feel like there are still people my age and younger that are still in that mindset of toughing it out and it being like a crown. You know, you're gonna get in heaven because you, because you toughed it out, because you sacrificed yourself. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And I, I do wanna say since, well, we're both religious and we both seen the effects of, you know, how this tough it out manifests within religion. So I do wanna say, and this is something that struck a chord with me while I was earlier on earlier on in my healing journey, is therapy is not a weakness, it's a strategy. Prayer can be great, but therapy is another strategy to put in your tool belt. And yeah, I don't think like, whatever religion mm-hmm. You serve, I don't think that whatever deity you serve is gonna be angry or disappointed if you're seeking help so that you can feel happier. Well, yeah. And, and just, yeah. Yeah. It is a combination of several things, you know, that you, that you need to do. Some people are just like, well, God's got this and just kind of lets it go. And maybe, yeah, God has this, you may believe that within yourself, but he's put people around you to help you. He's given people knowledge and abilities. You know, even you, if you wanted to look in the Bible, that's one. Christianity is one religion, but he, you know, it's even talked about that we all make up a body of that religion and one person's the head, another person's the foot, another person's the leg or whatever. And so just realizing that a lot of things can be done in tandem. You don't have to do just one thing. It's not one or the other. Right. Right. Not black and white. Right, right, right. For sure. Yeah. Well, Ronnie, you tell us what she's saved. Golly, I've been feel like I've said a lot. Um, okay. This is our, what she said for the day. You can't stop the waves, but you can learn to surf. Hmm. Yeah. Good one. And yes, this is actually a guy. So what he said, John Cabot Zen. He is a professor of medicine and a creator of mindfulness based stress, reduction. And I love what this, you can't stop the waves, but you can learn to surf so good. Because there's so much that's out of our control that just comes and goes. So we just, we have to back up and punt, redirect, you know, redo things like that. Yeah, I really like that one.'cause like, gosh, man, life is hard. It is, it is. Even if you're not dealing with like trauma or dysfunction or whatever it is, that doesn't mean you don't need therapy. And that doesn't mean that you can't learn how to go through life better and make things better right. Yourself by using. Strategies or coping mechanisms or tools or learning about yourself, it'll all go to make things easier. Yeah. So I think that's another great point as well, since we're talking about therapy, is you don't need to have a terrible backstory to Right. Go to therapy. Like if you've had the perfect life and nothing bad has ever happened to you, maybe you struggle with things like body image. Maybe you struggle with things like emotional self-regulation. Maybe you struggle with things like discipline. Mm-hmm. It could be even tiny little things, but there's experts in therapy who can help you with just like, I don't wanna say little, because those are big things, but very important things. Yeah. That I think are undervalued. Yes. Yes. In terms of how we can handle the stresses and life in general. Right, right. That's good. Well, for our challenge this week, we wanna invite you to try one emotional health habit this week. So whatever Fit best in your schedule or what it might look like. We wanna invite you to try one emotional health habit. So whether that's journaling, getting together with a good friend and sharing, maybe if you've been struggling with something and you haven't felt brave enough to voice it to yourself or to a friend, try that. Or resting self care, that's also mm-hmm. A, a health habit you can do or booking a session with a therapist. Yeah. Yeah. So one of those things, let us know, DM us, whatever it is, comment on one of our posts, let us know what emotional health habit you're starting this week, and let us know how it's going for you. And we can all learn and grow together. And that's the goal of this podcast. I have something really important that I wanna make sure that we get across. I've talked a lot about generations and, you know, my parents' generation and stuff like that. We definitely have to handle that with care. You can't go in and blast somebody. And so I just wanted to make sure that you heard me say, you can get all the therapy in the world. It doesn't mean that that person is gonna change. So you're doing this therapy for yourself. So when things are tough or you, you find something in therapy and you're like, oh, this, this has been handed down to me. Just be careful in how you approach family members that Yeah. After therapy. I hope that makes sense. I think speaking for myself, this deeper understanding of your generation's insights into this has. Made me more appreciative of you guys because you don't have the tools that I have. And it also, like, in terms of my parents who definitely grew up in that generation, like I have a better understanding of why they are the way they are. And that doesn't make me think of them differently, but it helps me understand them more. Right. And I can look at them and say this is their first time going through life too. Yep. And they had way worse parents than I had. Yeah, that's true. So approach older generations with compassion, especially older, from a younger generation. Yes. And seek to understand. Not to always give input. We are so glad you guys joined us today. We, if you like this podcast, we invite you to please like, and respond, follow us, so that we can get the word out. Word of mouth is huge. So if you like this episode or you think this is a really interesting topic you wanna share with a friend, please do. Yeah, just send them this episode and see what they think. And while you're here before you go, we would also love if you would leave us a review and give us some feedback for our show to not only make us better, but the more feedback and interaction we get as far as reviews and all the social media engagements that just helps to continue building this platform and this dream that we have to reach more people and have generational discussions and learn and grow together. Yeah. Yeah. So we hope you make it a great day, and as we close every episode, and that's the tea, that's, yay.