Heart Versus Head
A podcast that helps couples fight better and connect again.
Heart Versus Head
Divorce After 50
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Have you heard about "gray divorce" or "silver splits"? These are the terms that social scientists, therapists and divorce attorneys are using to describe the growing trend of older couples getting divorced after 50. In this episode, Randy and Beverly explore the reasons why divorces are rising among older people . They'll also offer some tips to keep your relationship on track, especially when it feels like you'll never be able to make your partner happy. #SilverSplits #GrayDivorce #HeartVersusHead
Heart Versus Head is a podcast about relationship styles and how those relationship styles influence communication in the most important relationships. The hosts - Randy Hampton and Beverly Craddock - are a married couple who are sought-after relationship coaches, award-winning authors and regular people who (like everyone in relationships) are just trying to stay connected through all the noise of life in the modern world. You can learn more about the couple and their work at HeartAndHeadCoaching.com, where you'll learn to fight better and connect again.
Welcome to Heart vs. Head, a podcast that helps couples communicate and fight better. Here are your hosts, Randy Hampton and Beverly Krabbick.
SPEAKER_02:Hey everybody, it's Randy and Beverly. Welcome to the Heart vs. Head podcast. This time around, we're going to be talking about something that actually came to our attention through another podcast. Oprah's got a podcast out there, and she was talking about gray divorce. This is divorce after 50. And it's kind of an increasing trend, if you will. Now, there's lots of reasons for it. We're going to talk about that on the podcast, but we want to give you kind of the heart versus head perspective on all of these things, as we always do on the program. Hey, Beverly. Good morning. How are you? Great. Excellent. Me too. So just so everybody knows, we talk about things from the heart versus head perspective. We believe that in relationships, you are either a heart or a head. If you are the heart partner, and most relationships end up as a heart and a head partner, creates great balance. And so we naturally end up there. If you are the heart partner, you're generally making decisions based on how everybody feels. Everybody else in a relationship, how you feel, how everybody else feels. Hearts make decisions based on how people feel. Heads make decisions based on logic and fact and are more likely to weigh things, debate them in their mind, and then make a decision that they consider to be right. So if you want to learn more about heart and head, you can listen to all uh I don't know, 8,492, other episodes of the podcast. Actually, there's not that many. I I think we're at that at like 48, 49 episodes. Um, so and we just started on Valentine's Day 2025. So I we've we've done one a week and we we've kind of hit that target. So I think we're we're doing okay, right, Beverly.
SPEAKER_01:I think we're at 50.
SPEAKER_02:Are we at 50? Today, I think. Oh, holy cow. Welcome to episode 50. That's why we're talking about divorce over 50. Divorce after 50, right? Um, is there pie or cake or something? I was just wondering. All right. So uh we're we're talking about divorce after 50, gray divorce, as Oprah said on her podcast, and she had the person that coined that phrase, a social scientist that studies marriage. But there was a lot about this trend. And one of the things that that came up was divorce over 50 has doubled in recent years, and divorce over the age of 65 has actually tripled. Meanwhile, overall, divorce has actually decreased in the United States. So the question that came up, and and what we're going to be talking about today, is why the heck has that happened? Beverly, let's talk about divorce and hearts and heads.
SPEAKER_01:I think the reason we wanted to weigh in on this topic, other than it being very trending right now, and I actually like the word silver splits better, but I'm not sure who coined that. So silver splits.
SPEAKER_02:Sounds like I'd pull a muscle.
SPEAKER_01:We wanted to weigh in because we see this as a definite heart and head issue. A lot of relationship issues come up around joint decisions. That's what happens. If you have listened to us for a while, all 50 episodes, you're starting to understand that it really all comes down to decision making. We don't think of that. It's not romantic, it's not maybe even interesting, might be boring. But let's face it, it's all about the decisions. Choices we make in life define everything about who we are, where we are, and if we reach our goals. So far, if you've stayed with us, then if marriage is this lifelong series of decisions, what happens with heart and head is we're two different people. Of course, all people are, go listen to Space Aliens episode whatever. But you'll find that hearts and heads make decisions differently. As Randy said earlier, the the head is more that logic. What's the smartest choice, the most efficient choice? Does it solve problems? Hearts are much more into how does this make us feel? Does it create closeness or connection, or will someone get hurt? And these two different ways of looking at things are super important because it's how we make the decision, but it's all how we make the meaning of things in our life, things that are shared. So one of the things that Randy and I have done over the years is understand and respect each other's style, relationship style, how we make choices, and to be more curious about it, to ask questions about it, to have compassion for it. And then at the end of the day, if he wants an electric car and I want to keep the car I have, which is another podcast reference, then we can just agree to disagree. We can put off the decision, perhaps. Or maybe one of us says, okay, you know, let's let's go your way for a while. Those decisions are now made from a team effort because we're no longer feeling as though we're not being heard, or our person is overreacting, or that uh one of us doesn't look at the facts, or we doesn't feel like criticism or blame.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, head head and heart in balance is a great, great decision-making tool when you can sit down with your partner and kind of get it from their standpoint. It is a much better way to make decisions in your relationship. It also reminds you, as Beverly has said, we're on the same team. We're married, we want the same thing. We want a calm, peaceful, enjoyable life where we feel loved and safe and and all of these things that probably every couple out there wants, adventures and all the things. It's probably why you're together, you wanted the same things. The challenge is when we end up in conflict, if you're not able to understand where your partner's coming from, the conflict is with your partner. When you're able to understand where your partner is coming from, when you understand the heart's perspective as a head or the head's perspective as a heart, now you're taking a look and going, okay, the problem is the problem. What should we do about the car is the decision that needs to be made, not how do I make my case to this other person because the other person is the problem. The car's the problem, Beverly's not the problem. And so when we can make decisions together, the better. And that's really where a lot of these couples end up in challenges and end up in divorce. And one of the things we were talking about earlier before we before we turned the microphones on is why hearts and heads get divorced in the first place. There's some nuance there. Getting a divorce is a decision, and you make decisions differently. So let's talk about why hearts and heads get divorced. Um, I can only explain it from a head standpoint as someone who has gone through a divorce in the past, first wife, 19 years, got divorced, and I will tell you why. I gave up on believing that I could make my first wife happy. All I felt was not good enough, and I'd felt that enough in my life. And so when I decided that I couldn't make my first wife happy, no matter what I did, I gave up, heads give up, and heads are out. And that's kind of the way that heads end up if the head is making the decision to get the divorce. We just give up. We can't make that person happy. We stop trying. What about hearts?
SPEAKER_01:Well, before we move on to hearts, I want to add to that. So then what happened is Randy made that choice, got that divorce. He also looked around. He also was looking for someone in his life that he could make happy. And that was where we met. We'd known each other from before, but this time it was like a new meeting because we were we were different. We were two individuals that two single single and had a lot of shared values, a lot of shared connection. So it was very easy to go have dinner and have that spark ignite.
SPEAKER_02:And to see that I could, with my stupid jokes and my my ridiculous stories and all of the things that come as part of the Randy package, I could make Beverly happy, or at least that was the belief. And so I go, Oh, okay, I can be successful with this person, I can be a successful man, I can be a successful partner with this person because I can make her happy. And it's a trap that heads fall into, uh, heads out there pay attention to it because you cannot make somebody else happy. It is not, it is not your function, it is not your job, doesn't mean you shouldn't try, doesn't mean you shouldn't do things to bring them joy, but you cannot make them happy. Anyways, hearts. Why do why do hearts get divorced, Beverly?
SPEAKER_01:Well, and I also want to add that Randy's jokes and all of the things that he was pointing out are very charming to me. And it was easy to and still is easy to be with the person across the table from me because he's amazing.
SPEAKER_02:Why thank you so much.
SPEAKER_01:That makes me happy. As the listeners know, I am also divorced. My first husband, we were two hearts, I guess, if you want to look back at it. And uh life was good, other than uh once the kids came along, there was a drinking problem on his part. That ended up in a lot of problems, a lot of consequences. I definitely wasn't happy. A lot of needs and wants weren't being met. Eventually, I had to get to the place of making a decision. So for Hearts, a lot of it is around how we're feeling in the relationship. I wasn't feeling connected. He was passed out or drunk or white knuckling that he wanted to drink. After a lot of time going through that, then put the ultimatum out there, and unfortunately, he was not able to quit. And so we did separate divorce, and I lived many years as a single mom. The thing about relationships is, as we just said about heads, is that it is not the partner's job to make a person happy. However, it is something that we need to meet their needs and wants or desires if possible. Now, this isn't a list of 20 things, and I've I've found a lot of hearts sometimes have a list of 20 things. But if we have like two or three, seems reasonable that we can get from our partner.
SPEAKER_02:If you could have two or three things that you want and need from me, that would be fabulous. I think there are 20 things. In fact, in the in the mind of a head, I think there's 10,000 different things that we're supposed to be doing. Because over the course of a relationship, we start making that list. Oh, if I do this, I do this, I do this, I do this, she's happy. And and that's not a real winning game because you can never really make that list. We'll we'll we'll probably branch off and talk a lot more about that in a different podcast. But you can see where it where it kind of falls apart in these relationships. Now, why is it that the people over the age of 50, why are we seeing gray divorce more than in the past? And as a sociologist, there are sociological reasons for that. Lots of them. We're living longer, and so people go, I don't want to be miserable any longer. And you know, when we live to 80, 85, getting a divorce at 50 or 60, there's still a long time that you have to find a relationship that does give you some joy and make you happy. So I think people are living longer. We are also living in a world where financially both partners tend to be working and have an income and can survive on their own, they're not as dependent as maybe couples were in the 1950s when he worked and she was potentially a prisoner to the financial situation. So there have been sociologically these changes. Now, throw in the fact that when we are in a relationship, if Beverly and I were first married in our 20s, had kids together, well, now we'd be seeing this time in life where kids go off to college, kids don't need us anymore. And I think a lot of times in relationships when you are not happy, when you are struggling as a heart to find connection, or are you looking for something that makes you feel successful as a head, you often look to your kids. They they begin to fill that role. Beverly certainly found connection through her kids. I certainly was able to find the things that I could do to be successful outside of a relationship through my kid. And so we we look at these ways to to find what we need, and we get that from our kids. And then the kids go off to college and suddenly we're stuck with this person, and maybe retirement comes along, and that person and uh and we are all together all the time, and we go, wait a second, this this person's making me miserable. All we do is argue, all we do is disagree, we don't have anything in common anymore, and it's time to go.
SPEAKER_01:Especially when we live in a time where everything is replaceable very quickly. We live where everything is disposable these days. You constantly can find information about appliances that used to last 20 years, now we're lucky if we can get two years out of them. When you look at social media, there are alternatives right and left. There's always someone that you could swipe here, swipe there, people that we're so connected to that we wouldn't even know exist. It just seems like it's so much easier to just move on rather than take the effort and energy to look at what you have.
SPEAKER_02:Because the effort and the energy to look at what we have so often seems impossible. And I as I said, when heads go, oh, okay, well, I can't make this person happy. It wasn't that I couldn't make that person happy that led to the divorce. It was the fact that I believed it didn't matter what I did, I would never be able to make that person happy. So it was this belief that it wasn't going to change in the future. And the belief is wrong, which is why I guess nowadays in my life I look at relationships and I go, man, it is way better to save what you got. It is way easier than to go out there and crapshoot your way into the next relationship and hope that that person is different somehow when we've seen enough relationships to know that that really you're just gonna end up with another heart. You are going to disappoint them at some point, you're going to make the wrong decision in their mind and end up back where you are. It is an unwinnable game because that person is a human and they're not always happy. Sometimes they're angry, sometimes they're short, sometimes they're hungry.
SPEAKER_01:That's also why there ends up being second, third, fourth divorces before someone finally stops a moment and says, hmm, gee, maybe the common denominator is me. Maybe this is something that I need to work on. Maybe, maybe I'm the one that sucks.
SPEAKER_02:So how do we how do we solve this, Beverly, from the head and the heart perspective? What is it that if you're a couple out there in your 20s, 30s, maybe 40s, and you're trying to prevent this from happening, and then there's those couples that are out there that are on the brink of this happening, what are some things that we can recommend that the couples can do?
SPEAKER_01:From my perspective, I think do what we did. That is how we ended up as relationship coaches and put our own relationship under the microscope, written a book and second on the way, uh, very successful in what we do. First, knowing that every person has a different relationship style, a decision-making style. Once you understand that, once you understand your own decision-making style, name it, be curious about it, and understand it. When I realize that Randy can't read my mind, Randy is not me, Randy looks at things completely differently, Randy is a space alien. Then I let go of trying to have him match or mirror everything that I'm thinking or doing. I realize that when we both head out the door and he's going left and I'm I'm going right, and we both turn around and look at each other like what just happened, I can laugh because it's just two different ways of looking at it. One's not better than the other, just different. And if we can accept that and enjoy that, it takes a lot of pressure out of that conflict and misunderstanding.
SPEAKER_02:Certainly, understanding it is valuable. I would say that uh whether you are a young couple trying to prevent this in the future or you are a couple that is dealing with the struggle right now, for the head partner, the thing you have to realize is you cannot make your partner happy. It is not your job in the relationship. Now, listen very carefully. You should still be doing things that bring your partner joy. That's a cool thing, and it's a really, really, really important thing. But that is different than being responsible for their happiness. Heads, give up this need to make your partner happy and and let them be responsible for what they need to be happy and focus on the things that you do, focus on the great things that you bring to the relationship, focus on the benefits and all of those things. Hearts, I would as a head give you this advice. If you want to protect your relationship and you understand that your head partner is out there desperately trying to make you happy, therefore, they're looking for respect and appreciation. One of the easiest ways to repair your relationship is to let your head partner feel respected and appreciated. Say something, tell them, and it will change the dynamic of that relationship and get them to a place where they can begin to feel successful in the relationship because they're doing the things and you're there saying, Hey, thank you for that. I appreciate that you you you picked up your sock. Or you you did the dishes or or whatever.
SPEAKER_01:And I think the last component would be communication. We all know that communication is really important in relationships. So even though Randy and I fully understand that we are two different people, different decision-making styles, we also understand that when perhaps something gets misinterpreted or miscommunicated, or maybe an expectation that wasn't even talked about, we can take a step back and we can say, okay, wait a minute. I I was trying to do this, this was my intent, I didn't intend to do that. And the other person can then say, Oh, okay, I I I see, I see how we saw it differently. And we can forgive and have grace for most of those, I think almost all of those issues in communication, that we don't have to always see eye to eye, and we can talk our way through it because we know that we are two different people. It's funny because we do that with people who don't speak our language. You know, if we travel, go to other countries and we're we're trying to communicate and there is a breakdown in the different languages, we'll be so patient and kind and try again and and not assume that the person has ill will toward us. But yet if that's our partner and there's a breakdown in communication, then we're all about, oh, that person, you know, a lot of times hearts will call heads as narcissists or or selfish and controlling. But none of those things are are really true. They're really not a narcissist, they're just different from you. And if you would just take a moment and be curious about that, then you would understand more about yourself and your partner, and you would see that this isn't insurmountable, that you really don't have to be headed for divorce, that you really could take a step back and with your partner start to figure this out.
SPEAKER_02:And wouldn't that be cool? Wouldn't that be that would that be awesome when you can both feel like you are good enough? I know even in the the conflicts and the the decision-making style differences that Beverly and I still have in our marriage, I don't walk away from the arguments going, I suck. Uh, I walk away from the arguments going, man, life is hard, and I'm glad I have somebody on my team to deal with that with me. It does change things when you understand it. That's the podcast for today. Thanks for tuning in to Heart vs. Head. Beverly mentioned the Couples Rule Book. It is on sale on Amazon. If you have not checked it out, also, if you're enjoying the podcast, you've learned something, you've gotten something that you you think about differently, or you talk to your partner about, or you hear topics on here, please like, follow, comment, uh, whatever. Tell your friends. Tell your friends, uh, subscribe, whatever it is on your your particular podcast listening application that you're using. Um, do those things, those help us out. And we want to continue to provide great content to help your relationships forward because you all deserve an amazing relationship in your life. That's what we're all looking for, anyways. Beverly, thanks for uh sitting down with me and chatting across the microphone.
SPEAKER_01:Happy 50. Aloha.
SPEAKER_00:Thanks for listening to Heart vs. Head. You can learn more at Heartandhead Coaching.com and check out new podcast episodes every Wednesday. If you have a question for Randy and Beverly, send an email to info at Heart and Head Coaching.com.
