Money Money Money $$$

Let's fight about money. Doesn't everyone? Probably - at some level and some point. In this episode, Randy and Beverly explore the deeper issues that need to be part of your relationship's money arguments. When it's just about the money, then you're missing the point. When you dig a little deeper, this is all about values and trust. If you're ready to have more useful talks about money with your partner, this episode is for you. #HeartVersusHead #MoneyMoneyMoney #MoneyFights

Heart Versus Head is a podcast about relationship styles and how those relationship styles influence communication in the most important relationships. The hosts - Randy Hampton and Beverly Craddock - are a married couple who are sought-after relationship coaches, award-winning authors and regular people who (like everyone in relationships) are just trying to stay connected through all the noise of life in the modern world. You can learn more about the couple and their work at HeartAndHeadCoaching.com, where you'll learn to fight better and connect again.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:06

Welcome to Heart vs. Head, a podcast that helps couples communicate and fight better. Here are your hosts, Randy Hampton and Beverly Craddock.

SPEAKER_02 0:20

Hey everybody, it's Randy and Beverly. Welcome to the podcast Heart vs. Head. Today, we're going to talk about money.

SPEAKER_01 0:29

Money. Money. Money. Money. That's like everybody's favorite topic, money. It's what, like, I think it's easily top three on what couples argue about money.

SPEAKER_02 0:49

For sure. And for good reason. I guess the reason I thought about money today or this month is tax time and collecting all those documents to send in to gathering up from everyone's massively lucrative 2025.

SPEAKER_01 1:04

Good for all of you. We talk about things a little bit differently on the on the podcast. We talk about heart and head. Money is certainly one of those situations where heart relationship styles play a role. Money is certainly one of those things where head relationship styles play a role. Heads and hearts see it differently. Hearts are typically the partner in the relationship that is more feeler-based and is always kind of monitoring how everybody feels about everything. And they use that to make decisions, making decisions to make sure everybody feels okay. Head partners, meanwhile, make decisions based on fact and logic, debate, right, wrong, black, white, very boxed in, kind of compartmentalized thinkers. And that's how they make decisions in their relationship. What Beverly and I have discovered is that in every relationship, one partner takes on that heart role, one partner takes on that head role. And what you end up with is two people that communicate differently, think differently, feel differently, and kind of navigate decision making in relationships very differently. It's all explained in our book, The Couple's Rule Book, and we'll dive even deeper into it in our forthcoming book. Be out a little bit later on this year. We'll be talking about that quite a bit. However, let's dive into money and heart versus head when it comes to money.

SPEAKER_02 2:28

We see this a lot with couples. Obviously, the differences between heart and head, or between really any couple, would be maybe different spending styles, maybe one's a spender, one's a saver. Could also be imbalance of power. Maybe one partner makes significantly more than the other and feels that therefore they can spend more. It's also possible that couples are just avoiding the whole issue and they just find that it's a place where there's constant conflict. In fact, we had a couple like this recently where the couple had financial issues, not because there wasn't enough money, but because they weren't communicating about spending. It was that flight kind of pattern where they're just avoiding the conversation, running away from it, didn't have a budget. So just some very basic systems that were being left out. A lot of it had to do with underlying issues, even childhood values, the things that we see growing up in our parents. If your parents are freaked out about money or struggling, that can be something that carries into your relationship. And then I'd say lastly, the the general category of financial issues would just be overall stress and anxiety in the relationship, where money is something that needs to be discussed and worked through, but it's just one of the elements on the a whole pile of elements that need to be worked through.

SPEAKER_01 4:01

Money's interesting because there are also so many societal, cultural, uh even religious connotations for money and what that means in people's lives. You know, there's the the old saying money is the root of all evil, which is not exactly what the Bible says. The Bible says love of money is the root of all evil. So from a Christian perspective, you may grow up with a belief that you know to like money, to desire money is uh is an evil thing, and that'll even set you up to have a bad relationship with money in a lot of cases because you aren't really sure how to deal with it if you have it, or if you're even supposed to have it, and there's you know internal brain stuff that goes on, a lot of dialogues. The reality is money is a social construct. You know, we come up with this idea of money because people have goods and services and somebody else needs the goods and services. And in a society, you're trying to figure out how do we trade for these things, and so money in and of itself is a practical thing to allow society to kind of exchange goods and services.

SPEAKER_02 5:08

Yeah, I wouldn't want to bring a pig in to trade for my massage, for example. I don't have a pig.

SPEAKER_01 5:14

Right. So money's easier, everybody gets money, you livestock lives. You sell your pig and then you take the money to the massage person. The massage person may decide to go out and buy ham and bacon from from that pig, from the butcher, from whatever. Um, but money tends to be this this way we we transact our lives. Now, there's there's certainly also um a lot of philosophies out there that say that whole system and structure is somehow uh inherently unfair. Um there are certainly a plethora of of times in history where you can you can really show that that money is used in an unfair way to oppress, etc. Um, you know, Karl Marx had some thoughts on that, uh not particularly myself a Marxist, uh, but I I I've read a whole lot of philosophy, and um certainly there there can be a criticism of money as a system, but why is it so hard for couples? And and Beverly kind of mentioned it, and I I think this is what's important about it. Money's not the problem.

SPEAKER_02 6:20

So, usually underlying the issue of money is these deeper issues that nobody really talks about. Couples tend to stay on the surface when there's a problem, and then of course we get triggered, and once we're triggered, then it becomes very emotionally charged. But really, the argument, the disagreement about finances, deeper issues around safety, freedom, control, worth, and trust.

SPEAKER_01 6:51

Those are the main underlying values. That's exactly right. I it's not a money issue, it's these bigger issues of things like Beverly mentioned trust or or value or all of these things that people kind of attach to the money and attach to their ability to spend it, save it, have it, express it, show the money, all of these different things that kind of go into how we how we deal with wealth or poorness or or any of these things related to money.

SPEAKER_02 7:21

Such as like, do I deserve to be paid at the value that I provide? What is my value? You know, think about people who are self-employed or run businesses. We get that uh question all the time. You know, people say, How do I charge what I'm worth? And and that's really a a difficult conversation when someone maybe has self-esteem issues or confidence issues.

SPEAKER_01 7:45

Absolutely. And it is a it is a situation, especially if you're in a in a service business of helping other people, it's often very difficult to say, what is that that worth? It may be a passion for you to help other people. That's how Beverly is. She's like, Yeah, I love helping people, which is great. That's that's awesome. You're you're a nurture, Beverly, and you you like helping people, but at the same time, you know, in a in a relationship, in a business, you gotta pay bills, you gotta take care of all those things, so you have to charge something. But how do you decide what distinguishes between uh a service you offer for five dollars and a service you offer for five thousand dollars? And oftentimes we're humans are afraid to even ask for the five thousand dollars because we're not sure we're worth that if if that value exists. So, yeah, money's a complicated thing, but it generally does tie into our own personal values, our own personal beliefs. And the problem that couples have is they want to argue about the surface issue of money and not get beyond that into what are these other core values, what are these other beliefs that are the the real source of conflict?

SPEAKER_02 8:55

Perfect segue. So I wanted to touch on two things. Uh, one is uh a little bit of background on Randy and I in our personal situation where we struggled with finances. Uh, we've been married 15 years, and then there was uh some money tension in those early years. And then secondly, if you keep listening, we always have our tips and solutions at the end. The personal story would be I grew up on a farm, and when when you're in the farming industry, and this was in Colorado, you got paid once a year. You basically had certain crops or or we had cattle and you make those sales once a year. And so basically that that money is the money you live on for the entire year. Being farmers wasn't a lot of money. Back then, farmers weren't weren't making much money.

SPEAKER_01 9:43

I don't I believe they're making a little more now. No, farmers have never historically made a lot of money, which is tough because they supply our food anyway. So you grew up in a tight economy.

SPEAKER_02 9:52

Right. And it was the situation where just to kind of paint the picture, you know, being this kid in elementary school, my my clothes are homemade. Uh I I didn't get the hand-me-downs because I was the oops baby, and so they didn't hang on to the clothes from my sister eight years earlier. However, a handmade was so much uh cheaper to buy the material. My mom would make it. She was a great seamstress. But the problem was I would go to public school and everybody else had store-bought clothes, which were more trendy and cute, and and it was this kind of issue that I noticed. I also felt like we were poor just because we would save money. Going to the store was maybe once a month, and my mom would only buy a few staples that the farm didn't produce. We produced our own vegetables. She did a lot of canning. And if we went to the store, it was for a very specific need of one or two things, sugar, for example, or so forth, that we didn't produce. And I was the kid that would always go and find a record. I was really into the little 45s, and I would always beg to get a record, and it was like a dollar, and it was a big deal if my mom would say yes, I would get so excited. So this was kind of my upbringing. And so the way that it influenced my life is that I was always very conservative with money. I would save. And if I bought something, I would save the money first and then purchase it. So even though I had credit cards and and they were convenient, I always paid them off, and I always had this saving mentality. So, Randy, do you want to tell your story?

SPEAKER_01 11:30

Sure, you know, came along maybe a little bit different. Grew up uh like Beverly, grew up poor. Um, I don't know about poor. I mean, we we we we struggled. I don't think when you're in it, you notice it, especially as a kid. You know, you're just you're doing what your life is, but but grew up knowing that there were things that you just weren't gonna get, weren't gonna have, and you you learned to kind of deal with that. Uh, went into my first marriage, always had jobs where I was not paid top dollar. Fun jobs, great jobs. Worked in radio for a while, loved it, made nothing. Great radio voice, though. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. That's how I ended up in the darn business. People are like, you should be on the radio. And I'm like, okay, I'll go be on the radio. And then I got broke. Did that, loved it, loved every minute of it. But the retirement plan in radio is when you die at the microphone, we will wheel your dead body outside so somebody can pick it up. That's that's that's a radio retirement plan, or at least was when I was in the industry. I didn't have a lot of money. Uh, and I I had a wife who maybe had a different mentality and came out of a much financially stable life. And so she liked to spend money. Uh credit cards. That's right. And so there was a lot of credit. And I think I got onto that lifestyle and kind of enjoyed it. So when Beverly and I first got together after my divorce, I ended up with all this credit card debt and all of these things. So coming into the relationship, Randy's the broke guy who can't manage money well. And that was kind of where it began for Beverly and I.

SPEAKER_02 13:10

We had to work through that, just giving this example because we're showing the different values, the different ways that our childhood can affect the way that we view money. And what we had to come to an agreement on was what was our our team, our partnership, what was our marriage values going to be around money? And we decided the the values I had of of conserving, saving, spending, not using the credit cards uh as much, at least not up front for that stuff, was was a better approach. And so that was what we did. And it's it's worked very well for us. We really have no money arguments. We have certain guidelines around if you spend you know more than$200, give me a heads up, those kinds of things.

SPEAKER_01 13:58

Well, sort of. I mean, that's kind of that's kind of flexible, more flexible for Beverly sometimes than for Randy. But I I agree we have a certain value and rules set up about when to spend money. And I only make this comment because there have been times I've been surprised by something that Beverly bought. Never, never angry, though. I I trust Beverly implicitly and my approach to money and Beverly knows this. The tendency is to go, oh, heads are always the ones that have a very tight budget and are going to be very on the on the numbers because they're logical. And hearts are the ones that are gonna be willy-nilly out there spending money. This would be exactly opposite in Beverly's and my relationship.

SPEAKER_02 14:39

Wait, am I willy-nilly?

SPEAKER_01 14:41

In that scenario. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I am. I am. I'm saying it's opposite. I'm saying I'm the one that's willy-nilly. Oh, you right? Yeah. You are occasionally willy-nilly. You're not willy-nilly with most things unless we talk about health. Right. Then you're a little willy-nilly. But, anyways, the point is Beverly's kind of the one that's more structured in it in the in the savings because of the values that we grew up in. So don't think that money, as far as head and heart, has to be that that structured side is the head side. A lot of the values you grew up with are what may drive your values around money. What head and heart rule is how we communicate about it and how we are able to maybe talk about it.

SPEAKER_02 15:31

True. But I also want to point out that one of the things that hearts are known for is we have a need for security. Uh, a lot of people say women will marry for security. It is something that we we put in high value. What money does for us is it a lot of times makes us feel safe and supported and able to enjoy a life. And so savings can sometimes provide that safety. So for me, I think the savings does that. However, there are some hearts where the savings don't necessarily create that safety. It's a little deeper issue. There's also between head and heart, there is some money systems. Sometimes one partner might feel the constraint of having a budget or the rules, and that can kind of go either either side. As Randy said, the the willy-nilly is a little opposite on our side. There's also connection to be found in money. Money allows a heart to splurge on loved ones, to have experiences and adventures, to find those meaningful moments, quality of life moments. And so that can be something that hearts are doing with their money. It also can relieve stress and help us to regulate that anxiety that we feel with that security. So it is nice to have money and have peace over it, knowing that we have access to it. And sometimes heads just don't understand these underlying heart issues. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_01 17:18

Surely. And you know, security is a thing that we both want in a relationship. Everybody does. You want to want a nice and secure relationship. One of the things that I think Beverly and I have been able to do is Beverly kind of runs the money. Financially, she has a better approach to kind of how that works. She talked about, you know, dealing with credit cards and things like that, which we just don't do that much, at least don't carry balances on. That said, I have a bit more of a laid back, it's gonna be fine, it's gonna be okay, not stressed out about money approach. And I think that's been beneficial for the relationship because Beverly's been able to integrate that. The trick of being a team is to look for the strengths in your teammate and use those strengths to make yourself better as a team. Not to argue over those differences, but to see where those differences provide strength and opportunity. And so, from solution perspective, that's what I recommend to to the heads is really look at it structurally. How would you build it and how would you make it, you know, so financially is your relationship is as good as possible, what kind of things would each of you have that are that are benefits, that are strengths that you can bring to the table and really being aware of those things? Beverly tips for people to stay out of trouble?

SPEAKER_02 18:42

Some of the conversations we talked about this being communication is one of the best ways to deal with the issues, would be instead of saying to your partner, Oh, we need to save more money, what you should say instead would be something around what would help you feel more safe and secure long term when it comes to finances. So when you figure out where those safety and security issues are, then you can work around that. You can build a system for that. You can say, oh, okay, uh, for for me example, I need to have a certain amount in my checking account because that lets me know tomorrow if I had an emergency, I've got the money right there. And then I also need a savings account so I know big picture. And then there's also obviously retirements and things that are really far out there. I like to see all three of those buckets at a certain level.

SPEAKER_01 19:36

She says retirement things that are really far out there, and I'm ready.

SPEAKER_02 19:43

There's also uh discussions that you can have around that emergency funds are there, you know, providing that security. It it it is a reminder that we we don't need to to freak out. Randy mentioned how he always had that underlying Belief that things work out, we're going to be okay. And that is where that's been very helpful in our relationship. So that's something that you can explain to your partner and offer as a buffer. It also gives that freedom to then maybe spend a certain amount on certain things. So if someone wants that home that they've always dreamed of, or that boat or or a trip or something, we can spend money. We can certainly budget for that. We can certainly do those things. We just need to talk about the specifics and address it as a team.

SPEAKER_01 20:37

Yeah, teamwork makes the dream work. Um do these things together, and I think you have a lot more uh a lot more success relationally, and that leads to success financially as well. Um and when you know they say money doesn't buy happiness, I don't disagree. Money doesn't buy happiness, but it can buy you a snowmobile, and snowmobiles make you smile. No, um money doesn't buy happiness. Snowmobile in a way, wow couldn't avoid the joke. Sorry. Um but you can buy a boat. Um it's not gonna buy you happiness, but it sure does make relationships a lot more stable when everybody feels secure. And maybe in that way that's what people see as that happiness is your relationship is more secure, so you argue about less when you have it, but when you're trying to get there, the the secret is to come up with that team plan, recognize each other's strengths, and utilize those.

SPEAKER_02 21:39

So another heart and head difference would be looking at the time frame, short, short range, long range. Heads tend to look out toward the future. Randy's always talking about that lake house in retirement. So ready for the lake house. He's probably looking farther out, and sometimes a heart will look just this week, this month, this year. So make sure you talk about timeframes because you're each probably going about it and looking at it naturally differently, and you want to check in with them and make sure that you're talking about the same time frame. Main thing is don't come at your partner, blame your partner, don't assume that they're just being careless, they don't, they're not a planner, they're being naive. Really recognize that your partner is that space alien. That's just a reference to an earlier podcast. And so you want to understand them, be curious, ask questions, poke a little in a kind but uh curious manner. And I think the conversations will go a whole lot easier.

SPEAKER_01 22:40

Yeah, I think be curious ought to be the theme for our season two here for 2026. Be curious is gonna solve a lot of problems in your relationship when you're asking questions instead of coming to what may be premature conclusions in your own mind. That is the podcast for today, everybody. Randy and Beverly on Heart vs. Head. Having a lot of fun doing this. Please remember to like, subscribe, comment, tell your friends, whatever that is, that always helps us out. And we will talk to you next time on the podcast.

SPEAKER_02 23:13

Hello, huh?

SPEAKER_00 23:17

Thanks for listening to Heart versus Head. You can learn more at Heart and Head Coaching.com and check out new podcast episodes every Wednesday. If you have a question for Randy and Beverly, send an email to info at Heart and Head Coaching dot com.