Workplace Mental Health | Q&A with SADAG (South African Depression and Anxiety Group)

In this powerful episode, clinical psychologist Lauren Davis sits down with representatives from SADAG (South African Depression and Anxiety Group) for an in-depth discussion on workplace mental health. They explore what poor mental health really looks like in the workplace - often masked under high-performing behavior rather than obvious signs. 

The conversation covers the overlap between burnout, anxiety, and depression, early warning signs to watch for, common workplace factors contributing to mental health challenges, and the critical role managers play in creating psychologically safe environments. SADAG shares their comprehensive corporate support services including 24/7 counseling, wellness days, and manager training programs. This episode provides both clinical insights and practical solutions for building mentally healthy workplaces, emphasizing that mental health is everyone's responsibility and support is always available through resources like SADAG's helpline.

You can access SADAG's support portal here:

https://www.sadag.org/#

And reach their support hotline here: 

Crisis helpline: 0800 567

Mental Health help line: 0800 456 789

SMS line: 31393

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Transcript

speaker-1 (01:22)
everyone, please welcome Lauren Davis and thank you so much for joining us today on our Ask the Expert.

speaker-0 (01:27)
Thank you so much, Pumla. It's so lovely to be here. I real I'm really excited and it's a real privilege to be able to share this platform and create more awareness around the Inter Health At Work.

speaker-1 (01:40)
so I'm just gonna dive right into it. so question one, when we talk about poor mental health at work, what does that actually look like in everyday life?

speaker-0 (01:49)
It's a great question. And I think it's an important one because when we think about mental health in general, we think of people that are really sick and not able to function. And so often people say to me, Well, what do you mean about workplace mental health? Because surely people are working, they've got to be mentally healthy. And and I guess therein lies the complexity of it because often the people that are mentally unwell at work, you don't see it. It's it's not

It's not like they've broken their leg and they're limping. and typically it's masked under more high functioning individuals and and behavior. So they might be suffering from a severe anxiety or depression, but it doesn't look like what we would typically expect because they pour it into overfunctioning and overperforming, pushing long hours, saying yes to every single project, you know, being that like

A-type overperformer, star achiever. And unfortunately, what happens is the workplace also endorses it because they love that kind of a person, because that's the person they can give everything to and everything gets done. or the you know, the person that they can trust with with the the difficult tasks. And so those are the people that typically end up burning out. And I think what you hear so much when you talk when we talk about workplace mental health, it we automatically just think of burnout.

But actually I think the term burnout is also just it's like an umbrella term. And I think people are more comfortable saying, I'm burnt out rather than I'm actually depressed. Or I have a I'm suffering from a major depressive episode or I have generalized anxiety disorder. Those things are still not so acceptable in the workplace. But I can say, I'm burnt out. So when we talk about workplace mental health, we're not seeing

You know, somebody that's just sitting there crying all the time or somebody having panic attacks. That's normally happening much more internally.

speaker-1 (03:37)
So it could be a normally functioning person that's just ⁓ okay at work, that shows up at work, that does basically everything but is not doing okay internet.

speaker-0 (03:48)
Okay. Handy well put, yeah.

speaker-1 (03:50)
Okay. But also can I ask, does that mean that now with burnout, anxiety and depression, do they overlap in some in some way as to if you are someone that's depressed, you can feel anxious about a few things, not only pertaining to work, but in your personal life as well.

speaker-0 (04:07)
Yeah. So basically if we look at kind of the symptoms of burnout, they're actually describing depression and anxiety. So burnout for me is just the term. The behavior we see and the experience people have is a combination of depression and anxiety. so it's definitely part of it. And then yes, I always say depression and anxiety are two sides of the same coin. You know, you might have a a more dominant leaning, so you might

tend to be more depressed and then you get anxious or you tend to be more anxious and then you get depressed but but they're very common comorbidities and in the workplace they definitely fuel each other because if i'm feeling very depressed then i get anxious about it because i think how's that going to impact my work and i can't you know what if and what if they discover it or what if i can't carry on working and then if i get very anxious and i feel so

wired and and often the big part of like generalized anxiety disorder, for example, or any anxiety disorder is I'm not good enough and then you know, then we start to feel depressed about that and then that impacts our identity. And so we go vicious cycles.

speaker-1 (05:11)
I get you. I think that makes sense a lot. Yeah. but thank you for that. on to the next question. It says, what are some early warning signs that someone might be struggling mentally in the workplace? What are the early

speaker-0 (05:23)
It's

subtle. I think it's subtle at first. You know, one would tend to wanna go and say, well, it's often sick days and absenteeism and lost productivity, but I think those are ones that's more severe. So I think the the more subtle ones are like a sense of disengagement from the work, just not being as committed, as energized by the work. there can be like a slight reduction in quality of work, in output, missed deadlines.

often it's the person will be complaining of just feeling tired or losing their spark for the work that they have. And then I think you do get to, you know, more sick days, more unexplained physical ailments as well, because often if you're not aware that this is a depression or or an anxiety, it will manifest as back pain or migraines. Also what I've started to notice is often people who are actually suffering from a mental illness at work.

end up getting physically sicker more more regularly with flus, tummy bugs, just because when you're mentally ill it does affect your immune system as well.

and I think the important thing with with any diagnosis of anything is it's gotta be a cluster of behaviors over a period of time. It's not just one thing, you know, if you say to me I'm tired now it doesn't mean again that you've got you know, you've got depression or anxiety. Of course. Yeah.

speaker-1 (06:40)
I was just wanting to say so your your signs that warning signs and things like is very much so like introspective. It's how do I spot it in myself? and which got me thinking is how would a colleague spot that sort of thing? And that led me to the irritability. I find it myself, I know when I'm like playing very dangerous, when I start getting very snappy.

And when somebody will say to me, Why, why are you so upset about this? And it'll be like, Okay, hang on, let me check myself. I just wanted to add that.

speaker-0 (07:06)
Def definitely. Thank you. That's definitely one. And I think often in a way more acceptable in the workplace to get a bit snappy and snarky because that's almost like more tolerated than s than somebody that's a bit more withdrawn and quiet.

speaker-1 (07:20)
It's terrifying how acceptable it is, you know, and encouraged to a certain degree, because if you're snappy and irritable, you're getting things moving. It's it's a real double edged sword. Yeah. Yeah.

speaker-0 (07:30)
Second.

The other sign, which is for oneself, but also as a colleague or or a manager, is listening out for substance use. So I'm not saying it's necessarily substance abuse, but somebody that is kind of on that slippery slope will start drinking more than usual, will start smoking more than usual. you know, might start maybe they smoke the odd joint on the weekend, suddenly it's it's every day.

And so it's noticing that for yourself, because those are obviously numbing techniques, but also as a manager or colleague, you might notice that they're speaking about their use more, or they start missing Mondays often because they've had a binge on the weekend, because they've had to be at home alone. So those kind of behavioral things are quite important to to listen out for, watch out for in yourself and then in your colleagues. Yeah.

speaker-1 (08:17)
I think we need to start paying attention to what people say. sometimes, even if it's if even if it's a joke or it's in passing, just to be able to know what people are going through and what they're experiencing at the time. So thank you so much for that. another question is from your experience, right? What are the most common workplace factors that contribute to poor mental health?

speaker-0 (08:37)
Where do I start? The whole thing that we have to work is bad for our mental health, right? so that's kind of one of the key challenges. And I think it it is quite systemic in organizations and workplaces. I think that the things that keep coming up are workload. So people are expected to do far more than what is practically possible. And it especially now with the introduction of AI.

You know, it's it's you can just do more with less. So you know, teams are getting smaller, but the human labor is still needed to process what the AI is doing. So I think workload is a is a really huge impact. the other one is unrealistic targets and expectations and deadlines. well, mainly the targets. I think the businesses, you know, it's like

They set these high targets each year and then a high performing team meets them and then they're like, wow, well if they could do this this year, well then maybe they can do that next year. And so we double it all the time. So it's this constant like chasing one's one's tail. I think the twenty four seven availability, which you know just got worse over after COVID, but this expectation that you can respond immediately and you must just be on all the time, is is also fueling it.

Poor leadership. I mean it for me, it actually all comes down to leadership, like workplace well-being. It all starts from the top, as we know. And so, you know, a key thing that I focus on is I always say be well so you can lead well. So leaders need to be well themselves because otherwise all they it's just kind of spilling down. So often it's poor leadership, which I mean comes out in not giving clear directions, not giving proper feedback, not holding people accountable.

Not training people properly, not caring about their people, and and the one thing and I'm gonna repeat this over and over again, is people not taking lunch,

just take lunch, take fifteen minutes away from lunch, away from your desk, and just eat, have a break. You're entitled to fuel your body. This thing of people are like, so busy today, I didn't even have time for lunch. That for me doesn't tell me that you're such a dedicated employee. It tells me that actually you're being a bit stupid because you're not fueling your your body.

speaker-1 (10:43)
I think I think a lot of it also comes into fear though. you know, that fear of losing your job, the financial worries, etc., etc., which exactly in well enables you to or helps enable you to do all the wrong things. Yes. Exactly. Because you you don't feel like you're doing something wrong. You feel like you're actually expected to sit there and and eat at your desk.

Or expecting to say and not have much. What are the recognitions if you don't? If you don't need to be the one who can fix it all, do it all, be it all. True. Yeah. True.

speaker-0 (11:14)
And especially in today's climate with the economic uncertainty and lots of retrenchments, people feel like they've got to keep proving and keep showing that they they are the dedicated one and putting in the extra hours.

speaker-1 (11:26)
So what role do managers or leaders and colleagues play in creating a mentally healthy workplace?

speaker-0 (11:33)
As I I think I mentioned it in the previous question, I think, you know, managers and leaders play a massive role. In fact, there was a research paper that came out I think last year or the year before employees said that their managers impact their mental health eighty six percent more than their partners. So the way they are treated while at work impacts their mental health.

far more than their own spouse. Which is very scary. And so so managers, it's in the way that they treat their people and in the way that they communicate. It's in the way that they set targets and workload. And it's often in the way that they set boundaries to their seniors. Because often they're also this they're also an employee. So they're also managers are also feeling as fearful, feeling the need to prove, needing to meet the targets.

speaker-1 (11:55)
that is true.

It is.

speaker-0 (12:19)
To their senior. And so it just goes up the chain. And so, you know, when I work with leaders, one of the key things are often what the the kind of key skill, if you want to say, that we ha that we work on developing is how to be more assertive with you leading up. And how do you set the boundaries to be able to say, actually, my me and my team cannot do this right now. So I'm actually protecting my team by saying

speaker-1 (12:22)
Just keeps on going, okay.

speaker-0 (12:44)
This is this is not gonna happen, or if we have to do this, what else can we deprioritize? And most managers are too afraid to have that conversation. So they just say yes, and then that goes that pressure goes on to their team as well. Yeah.

Because many companies nowadays are speaking a lot more about well being and boundaries and but the reason it's not actually landing is because managers are managers are saying, Yes, you must take lunch, but they never take lunch. Or yes, I get it, you must leave at five to go fetch your kids, but they never do it. Or you are sick, go home, or don't come in, you're sick. So they're saying the right things, but then they come to work sick.

speaker-1 (13:09)
Right.

speaker-0 (13:25)
Or, you know, they are never pushing back or setting boundaries. So no matter how much you say as a leader, if you're not actually doing it for yourself.

speaker-1 (13:32)
They can't follow.

speaker-0 (13:33)
I mean, I've had terrible examples in individual coaching or in workshops with employees where they've told me they will sometimes sit at work till seven o'clock and they literally can't do any more work. They're exhausted. So they're not working, but they're playing solitaire on their computer because they they just want their boss to see that they're still at the office before they don't want to leave before their boss leaves. Or

Even though the boss says, Listen, I'm gonna send emails at all times, but I don't expect you to respond. You know, it's just so that it can get off my chest. I've heard people say they set their alarm for one o'clock in the morning so they can wake up, get onto their emails, answer what their boss has said, so it looks like they've also been online. I mean that is that is bizarre behavior to be.

speaker-1 (14:18)
That was insane. Yeah. Yeah. So I have one last one so that we don't really take Lynn's time. Yes. but this is for your podcast. okay. So can you share more about the podcast you host, the topics you cover, who is it for, and where can people find it?

speaker-0 (14:35)
Yes, sure. So it's it's called Beneath the Busy, Insights into Workplace Mental Health. And it focuses on exactly that. What is underneath all this busyness, this busyness sickness that we are suffering from? what's fueling it from a psychological perspective? Why is it so hard for us to slow down? and it's it's focused for the general kind of workplace person.

But in particular, my target audience is leaders and HR professionals. Cause I believe those are the two main groupings in organizations that if they are well and they truly understand what well-being is, then that'll impact. Obviously, every individual employee has their own personal responsibility to take care of their own well-being. And that's crucial. But from an organizational perspective, I think those two groupings need to be taking care of themselves first. So that's kind of the the

Yeah, the main focus of the podcast. But but the topics I talk about will be relevant to anybody who works, I think.

speaker-1 (15:32)
Okay.

Thank you so much, Lauren, for sharing all of that with us. I think from now on, we'll just be more mindful to the people that we work with, to the people that we work for, just to check what is really happening internally, mentally, so that we can be there for ourselves and we can be there for other people as much as we're there for our clients and the people on the ground.

But thank you so much for taking your time to be with us on ask the expert I'm going to give the session to Lynn to tell us more about what we're covering. So over to you, Lynn. Thank you so much. Beautiful. Thanks. Thank you, Lauren. I'm I'm definitely going to be picking your brain on a whole lot of things. I got very excited about it all.

speaker-0 (16:06)
From that.

speaker-1 (16:13)
But anyway, so good afternoon, everyone, and and thank you so much for giving me the opportunity to share a bit more about the work that we do at SADAG and and specifically how we partner with corporates to support employee mental health in a more meaningful and practical way. you know, you've heard employees are navigating high levels of stress, burnout, anxiety, you know, all those personal challenges and still trying to meet that demanding work expectations.

And this is where SADAG steps in. We provide more accessible, compassionate, and professional support. Our corporate services are designed to meet organizations where they are. So whether you're starting your mental health journey or looking to strengthen an existing mental health program, SADAG can step in and assist. One of our core offerings is our employee assistance programs.

⁓ through this, employees have access to confidential telephonic counseling, emotional support, and of course referrals. these services are available 247, which is crucial. we all know mental health doesn't have a a nine to five work work system schedule. So our our counselors are trained to provide immediate support, helping employees to feel heard, to more karma, more equipped to cope.

And often in those moments when they're feeling most overwhelmed. In addition to this ongoing support, we are also offer wellness days, which takes on many different shapes and forms. One of my favorites is an actual like wellness day. I find them very impactful, where organizations wanting to engage staff more directly. they're mostly they're in person because you actually have counselors on site.

with the table, with the materials. you know, counselors, employees can then go up to the counselors, they can access access brief screenings, they can do one-on-one check-ins, they can psychoeducation, some resources, and it creates that safe, visible space for mental health conversations, which also helps to reduce the stigma and encourages that help-seeking behavior, which I think is so important. Another component, of course, is talks, workshops, webinars.

And these are always tailored to organizations' needs and they can cover a wide range of topics from stress management, burnout, resilience to more specific areas like trauma, grief, substance use, how to support colleagues in distress, which I think is a very important one, especially listening to with with managers and how to managers support. How do you support your every and it's not just about being kinder, although I think the world would be a better place if we were all just a little bit kinder, but that's another conversation.

But anyway, the goal is not just to inform, it's to equip employees and managers with practical tools that they can use in their daily lives. We also place a strong emphasis on the manager and leadership support. And that ties into links into exactly what Lauren was saying. you know, and also managers are often the first one to notice when something isn't quite right. And it isn't just the irritability, it's the maybe as you say, it's it's they're getting sick more often, whatever the story is.

But often managers aren't confident on how to respond. So the the trainings and the talks and all are to help leaders recognize those warning signs. How to respond appropriately, because it's not about turning managers into counselors, and how to create psychologically safe environments within their teams. And what makes SADAG's approach so unique is that it's both human, which is for me the winner, and scalable. We are able to support large national workplaces right the way down to

Your little small handful of people, while still ensuring that every single individual who reaches out receives that compassionate and person-centered care. And that's what I love about SADAG It's about the person, not about the numbers. We also understand that every organization is different. Some might need a dedicated helpline, others might need more targeted campaigns or ongoing engagement strategies, but we work with each organization

To design solutions that are relevant, flexible, and impactful. And the ultimate goal being to make sure that no employee feels alone in their struggle and that support is always within reach. That is the goal. so when organizations we know invest in mental health, the benefits are clear. It's not always as clean and dry as improved well-being or increased productivity and all that. But it's about creating that positive workplace culture.

Beyond that, it's also about the people. It's about showing your employees that they matter. And if anyone wants any more information about how we can support your organization, please feel free to drop me an email. My email address is admin at anxiety.org.za. I'm sure our tech team will post it in the chat. Or phone one of the helpline numbers. They will soon tell you how to get hold of me. Thank you, Pumla. Thank you, Lauren.

thank you so much for that. I'm sure they'll be able to reach out to you with whatever that they would like to know more about SADAG and some of the corporate wellness events that we have in place. so Lauren, again, thank you so much for today.

speaker-0 (20:58)
I'm gonna end with my if you listen to my podcast, you'll hear me saying it at the end of every episode, which is it is okay to not be okay, but it's not okay to stay that way. You are not alone, help is available, and I always quote Sadag. So if all else, if there's nobody else to turn to, phone SADAG, because there's always a warm body at the end of that phone call.

and then lastly, just to be gentle and kind with yourself and each other because I think it's tough out there. And I'm gonna start adding and take lunch away from your desk. That's my final thing. 15 minutes, five minutes. Just stand up, go and eat your lunch and come back.

speaker-1 (21:35)
And

hopefully leave your phone at your desk as well so you actually enjoy and eat it and enjoy it.

speaker-0 (21:41)
Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Thank you. Thanks so much for the opportunity.

speaker-1 (21:45)
Thanks everyone. Bye. Bye. Thank you.