Burnout Warning Signs Business Leaders Miss (Until They Crash)

You’re hitting your goals. Business is growing. But you’re running on fumes—and no one’s asking if you’re okay.
If that feels familiar, this episode is for you.

In this honest and relatable conversation, Chrissy and Josh break down what burnout really looks like for business owners and managers. Josh shares how ignoring the signs landed him in the hospital. Chrissy explains why “rest is a leadership skill” and how she learned (the hard way) to protect her energy and her team.

 Chrissy and Josh unpack the subtle burnout symptoms high achievers tend to ignore like emotional numbness, over-scheduling, and detachment from wins. They reveal how even your best employees may be silently burning out, why hustle culture kills productivity, and how to spot the early warning signs in both yourself and your team. You’ll also learn the difference between supporting your team and enabling poor performance, plus the exact systems Chrissy uses to model sustainable, resilient leadership. 

Whether you’re a business owner, team leader, or burned-out manager trying to keep it together, this episode gives you the tools to create a healthier business without losing your mind (or your best people).

💡 Rest isn’t weakness, it’s your competitive edge.

If you're looking to get help with your culture, or to help out an entire group, reach out to Josh and Chrissy today!  We would love to see how we can help you, your business, or your event. Contact us!

ClarityHR is your fractional HR team, giving you real people, real support, and real solutions. Whether it’s compliance headaches, hiring struggles, or just needing someone to take the people stuff off your plate — we’ve got your back. So if you’re ready to stop using duct-tape and hope as your HR strategy and finally get some peace of mind, head over to ClarityHR.com

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Transcript

Josh Troche: We may have missed a week in terms of an episode. Yes. There was a good reason for that. I happened to get sick. Chris is just over here nodding. And I think a big part of that is because she's seeing me also in a bow tie for the first time for you this year. Right. She's I missed time. I show up wearing a bow tie.

So what are we going to talk about this week?

Chrissy Myers: Burnout.

Josh Troche: Yeah. Because that that that that may have been an issue. Stay tuned. I mean, she's the CEO.

Chrissy Myers: He's the marketing and operations guy.

Josh Troche: If it's broken, you need.

Chrissy Myers: The business fix.

Josh Troche: I think this is going to be a different piece for you than it is for me.

Chrissy Myers: Maybe.

Josh Troche: So let's talk about, like, my life, obviously. We're going to dive a little bit into the what the hell happened with my life and why we missed a week. Yeah. Yes. We are. We are not invincible. We're not infallible. No. What's been going on with your life?

Chrissy Myers: I mean, we're done with travel season, so I'm happy with that. Yay! Now it's time to buckle up. Go through the holidays. Have a good time. Watch our daughter apply to 22 colleges. Great.

Josh Troche: Well, you're watching that. At least watching out for what?

Chrissy Myers: We're watching. We're watching her get our acceptances, watching her get different award letters. The ups and the downs of this is good. This is bad. You know, it's.

Josh Troche: It is. So she's almost getting that piece of business ownership right now. She had like the highs and lows of like you got accepted but not to the program you wanted.

Chrissy Myers: Exactly. Or this is what we're going to offer you. It's not even close to what you probably want. So you don't have to get loans or deal with a bank, a mom and dad, all those things.

Josh Troche: So, yeah. Yikes, yikes.

Chrissy Myers: Yeah, she's almost to adulting. So it's. Yeah.

Josh Troche: Yeah. Buckle up kid. You got a lot of buckling in to do. Yeah. So I'm hoping that we're going to talk about we're going to talk about my recent burnout. Yes. And I'm hoping this is a good reminder for you not to go down the same path that I have recently gone.

Chrissy Myers: Oh, I think every time I watch someone crash and burn, I remind myself, don't do that again because I've done it before.

Josh Troche: I know you have. And that's why I think that's why we're going to talk about it in the way we're going to talk about it today. Because when we talk about burnout is we are going to talk about you from a personal standpoint in how to prevent it. We're going to talk about pajama day.

Chrissy Myers: Yes.

Josh Troche: I, I'm hoping we talk about pajama day because you've mentioned that. You've mentioned that even recently. Yes. I've been pretty good overall about spotting it in employees and figuring out when that's coming. Can't figure it out my damn self. It's always easier to fix other people than yourself.

Chrissy Myers: Always.

Josh Troche: Yeah. No, I'm so. I'm so good at that. For me, the story for me was is obviously October's busy month for us. We've got a number of big projects that come do like right at the first in November. 10,000 Small businesses summit in DC just happened. Yep. I was asked to, I was going to cancel the trip.

I was asked to possibly introduce a speaker, which was like, Holy cow, this is big. This is the largest gathering of small businesses in DC ever. Yes. Huge deal. Right? So I'm thinking of canceling the trip, and then I'm like, hey, would you want to do the thing? And me being the attention whore that I am, I am like, yes. And of course I see the opportunity.

Chrissy Myers: Absolutely.

Josh Troche: So I say yes, and then I end up basically speaking on a, in a breakout session. They called me a panelist. It was a panel of one. I was on the panel. But about AI and automation in the business. So awesome. Yeah. Came home. Didn't feel great. That spiraled down quickly until I ended up in the air.

I have a very low heart rate and a very high lung capacity. Naturally. Genetically gifted that way. Like, okay, so you don't. We don't think you have pneumonia. Just a really bad cough. And then they X-ray my lungs and they're like, oh, you have pneumonia.

Chrissy Myers: Congratulations.

Josh Troche: Right. Congrats. Here's your prize. Here's some more antibiotics. But yeah. So that was I mean, I literally I saw. I knew I was driving into a brick wall.

Chrissy Myers: I think you did it anyway.

Josh Troche: Yeah. Wonderful.

Chrissy Myers: Sometimes you can't help it.

Josh Troche: And that is, that is my I knew like every year I set myself up I don't want to say for failure in October. But I set myself up on like we can do this. We can do this, we can do this, we can do this. And then that one thing gets added. Yeah. And suddenly, I mean, it's Jenga.

You pull that one brick out of the bottom and suddenly the fan needs a pressure washing. So. Yeah. That is, that is the, the big piece about that. This to me, I mean I, I've never experienced burnout this hard. And it's funny just the look on your face is like freaking amateur. I know that's exactly what's going right through your head.

You amateur. Come on, step it up. No, it's how I'm saying.

Chrissy Myers: I'm just like, wow, that's that. That's not bad.

Josh Troche: I know, I mean, I've burnt out in other ways, but I. I'm pretty good about realizing where that step is. And I would equate it to some of the athletic things that I've done. Like, oh, I know if you step over that line, it goes downhill really quickly. So to, to kind of traverse that line. Okay. It, it to me, this was not obviously just about feeling tired. I ended.

Chrissy Myers: Up here Logitech.

Josh Troche: At the hospital. And it wasn't just like, you know, feel good there. Like. No. You got issues, boy. Yeah.

Chrissy Myers: There's they put you in timeout.

Josh Troche: Right. Medical professionals told me I have issues. Not this is physical. Not. We already know the mental physical that it for you. Yeah. You've been at burnout a lot.

Chrissy Myers: Yeah. Multiple times a few times.

Josh Troche: A few times. I mean, sometimes you got to slam your hand in the door a few times. You do? Oh. That hurts. You've managed you now have pajama days. We talked about that. Like you're like, this is a pet. You have a weekend. Yes. I am doing nothing. Nothing is opening. As business owners and this is the tough thing, we are like I feel responsible for everyone that works for me.

Chrissy Myers: Yeah.

Josh Troche: In many cases, I am. I feel less responsible for myself than I do my employees and what they're doing. Which is a tough thing. How do you say how do you look to, to realize that. Okay. What are you looking for when it comes to burnout. What. Some of the telltale signs that like a business is thriving, but like, the owner is running on fumes.

Yeah. Because, like, to me, I was like a 15 year old Honda Accord with 200,000. Every light on the dashboard was on the check engine light, the low oil, the overheating. All those lights were on. And I'm like, ask her. Keep driving. I'll just drive home. Right. We'll make it. We'll make it home. So give me your take on, the the the big picture here. Like, what are some of these warning signs? And, how not to step off that cliff?

Chrissy Myers: Yeah. So few things. So you got even thriving. Looks like weathering, because that's the other part is sometimes people think like, oh, everything's going great for you. And, like, on the inside, you are just dying.

Josh Troche: Yes.

Chrissy Myers: Yes, absolutely. So the first thing I would say is that emotional numbness doesn't scream at whispers. So burnout oftentimes whispers to you first. And if you miss those warning signs like the first check engine light and you're like.

Josh Troche: If.

Chrissy Myers: It'll turn off.

Josh Troche: Or table, they'll.

Chrissy Myers: Take over it, it's no big deal. So you've got to pay attention to those things. So a few things that can kind of give you that that indication detachment from wins. You're like, yeah, that was good. But we got more stuff to do or that was good, but it wasn't good enough. So detachment from it, like if you don't celebrate another one's when you lose.

I mean for me it's snapping over small stuff. So you've seen the memes of the like, the person that's trying to throw the garbage can and he gets stuck, and then he just starts banging and then rips the mailbox, throws everything. I mean, like, so there's that. Scheduling yourself into oblivion. Meaning I don't want to have to think about some of the things that I'm dealing with.

So instead, I'll just burn myself out by over scheduling myself. So that's those things. So detachment from your wins, snapping over small stuff, scheduling yourself into oblivion. Those. That's burnout. Wearing a productivity patch that I'm going to continue. So I was going to say, do you feel do you feel seen?

Josh Troche: I do, yes and no on some of that. Okay. I'll revisit some of this in a minute, but yes, I like it.

Chrissy Myers: Yeah. Some other things for me. Tears for inconvenience is a good telltale sign that there's something going on with me. Everything's going great, and I'm in tears in my office over something really small. I have burnout. I'm getting close to it. Another one is, I will when I start losing things. Like if I lose, like, the major credit card or debit card that I run my life with, that's that's a telltale sign that I am.

I'm reaching burnout because I've put it on. My mind is moving too fast, and I can't figure things out. Another one that I would say is when I say something as an awful. If you hear me say, oh, that's not awful, like more than two times in in a day, that's a telltale sign, because I'm starting to just tell myself I can keep doing it. It's not awful. It's fine. I'm not going to die.

And then there's always the physical symptoms of burnout. These ones are probably a little bit easier. Headaches. Caffeine consumption. My caffeine consumption goes way up if I'm drinking caffeine after 5:00 in the afternoon. It's not that time, Josh. I can still have this meal on. So I don't go there.

The eye twitch. I know, for me, like, overtired, like, don't have not getting enough sleep burning candle at both ends. I get a twitch of my eye. I just need to lay my head down. That like thought. Like when you're in a zoom meeting or you're in any type of meeting, you're like, if I just put my head down, I close my eyes really slowly.

Like there's moments those are those. If you're doing a lot of those things in tandem, you're getting close to burnout. If I can't wait for the weekend to get all this other stuff done, that's another one.

Josh Troche: It's funny, as you go through these, and I what's really interesting about this, and this is something that I kind of want to, like, dive into a little bit. Emotional numbness. Yeah. You know me well enough to know I'm amped up about everything, but I don't get emotional about many things. So that one, it's one of those things where, like, if I'm kind of emotionally numb no matter what, all the time.

Chrissy Myers: Anymore, and that one's not going to be a good telltale sign for.

Josh Troche: You. Right? And it's it's so funny, though, because there's a few of those like detachment from the wins I don't win. Well. Something isn't awful. Okay. The physical signs for me were the ones that really crept up. I no longer looked forward to working out in the morning. I missed, like, a week's worth of workouts. And, I mean, I'm religious about that.

Yep. That is that is my time. That is my thing. I started not looking forward. I mean, I started looking forward to after the busy period. Yeah, but not any things. It was just after the busy period. There wasn't like, hey, we've got a trip or we've got a something coming on. It's just get me the hell out of the woods.

So those were the things that for me were the bigger markers. It's interesting and to me it's the, the how it looks different. Yeah.

Chrissy Myers: Burnout looks different from almost everybody for all different.

Josh Troche: Oh I'm sure yeah. It's the, for me though I love how this is a like. I wasn't even thinking of these things, until you mentioned, like the tears for inconvenience. I'm not much of a crier now. I didn't think you'd expect me.

Chrissy Myers: No, I wouldn't expect you to. And I'm not generally either. But if that happens.

Josh Troche: You know. Yeah. So.

Chrissy Myers: You know, I'm laying in my office on the floor in tears. That. Okay, we might need to take a break.

Josh Troche: Yeah. No, that definitely sounds like that. Holy cow. It like I said, it's just that it's those differences, those vast differences. But to me, that physical signs are what really I. And I mean, I knew it. Yeah. Like I said, head straight for that brick wall. It's what, like, as we get more successful.

Chrissy Myers: Yeah.

Josh Troche: It that drives addictive like it does.

Chrissy Myers: It is.

Josh Troche: A little bit of a success and you're like, oh.

Chrissy Myers: I can keep doing.

Josh Troche: This. Right. If I made $10 doing this, if I do it twice, I'll make $20. Yes. And it's never usually the case. But so speak to that success and management of that. Like how we actually look at that.

Chrissy Myers: Yeah I think for, for one it's, it's knowing that the higher you climb, the bigger you get, the more success you have. The more it's about managing your energy than it is about doing all the things. Because you're working on building a system, you're working on delegating. It's about really building the toolbox that you have and your resilient operating system so that you can do other things because, you know, rest is a leadership skill.

I know you may not think it is, but it is.

Josh Troche: I'm not David Goggins and but in this same sense, I, I.

Chrissy Myers: Well, and as long as we do that, we do that because we just think I have to stay busy. My worth is tied to this. And the other part, and I would say this is something that's really important, is I used to think that taking time off meant and I was letting people down, meaning like, I have to be superwoman.

And because of that, because I felt like I had to do all of those things. Let's see, I've had horrific physical injuries because I wasn't paying attention when I was supposed to be paying attention. I almost burnt my house down. I mean, it's it's not helpful. So now I know that when I step away and I'm modeling, modeling rest and I'm modeling how not to to to not be burnt out.

I'm also modeling sustainability for other people. So it's really important. I mean, you understand rest is a leadership skill. And I treat routine self-care like a board meeting. I'm not going to skip it at this point, because I know if I skip too many things, I'm going to wind up out for a week or two weeks or three weeks.

And the ability for me to just maintain myself, you know, do that routine maintenance like we're supposed to do on our cars, not ignore all the warning lights. It's important. So the things in a resilient operating system, we talk about mindset building our interpersonal effectiveness, having a what else that drives us beyond, what we do day to day.

I think it's really important. I think if you have a routine, it's great. I don't think you should live and die by your routine completely. You've got to give yourself some flexibility. And I know that sometimes we we have disagreements on professional development. But for me, professional development is another way to energy manage because you're getting new tools and resources.

You're also forcing yourself out of your business, so other people have to do some of that work for you.

Josh Troche: I mean, it's a source of frustration.

Chrissy Myers: I would say it can be, but you can't lead well when you're running on fumes. No, you can't. And your resilience isn't in how much you do. It's really in how well you recover from things. So pajama days, delegation, going to therapy, occasionally having a clear what else? Learning how to model the behavior that you probably should have and someone who rests.

That's really my recipe for now.

Josh Troche: I love the rest is a leadership skill. Yes. And it's funny because it is that thing that we need to work on and we need to be intentional about. We are we are always asking people that work for us, that work around us to be intentional about things. Yes. Do the right thing. Do the right thing at the right time.

Make sure you're thinking about it all, this other thing, and then we don't do that ourselves. The nice the the difficult piece to that is, is at 5:00. Most of them, they're like okay, they can go home and not think about it. Yeah. Whereas for us, we have to be intentional about clearing that out of our head. Yes.

To be like, okay, let's actually do something else. Let's go. Yeah.

Chrissy Myers: Let's do the other things.

Josh Troche: Oh, 100%, 100%. I also like the the routine self-care, like a board meeting. That's a great way. It's not.

Chrissy Myers: Negotiable.

Josh Troche: And you just think it just has to be schedule. Because once again, like if you look at my calendar, there's an empty spot. Sure. I'll fill it.

Chrissy Myers: Exactly.

Josh Troche: If. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, totally.

Chrissy Myers: I have clear, I have clear now. I have clear parameters around when I need to take care of myself and why not? And I think we had very similar situations while you were trying to, like, you were sick. I had and in denial, I identified that I was going to have an issue and I wiped my calendar.

I messaged you and I'm like, not doing anything for the next three days.

Josh Troche: I know I, I and it was so funny. I, I, wholeheartedly admit what I got that message from you. I was jealous. I oh, because I, I, I saw the, I knew the shitstorm I was walking into and I'm just marching on along like like the good little soldier. And I'm like, oh, damn it. So, yeah, I was a bit jealous of that.

Like, she and take that as a good thing, I guess. But no, seriously, it's like you have that. You have that foresight, and it's that the the thing that's tough is watching right now. And this is the thing it's always tough to see. I just recently crashed hard. I know you have also. Yeah, but most of us haven't seen that from you.

Chrissy Myers: I oh.

Josh Troche: And that's that's it's.

Chrissy Myers: True. You see, they don't see me. Ten years ago when I tried to burn my house down.

Josh Troche: Correct, correct. So that is the the like. And to me, I love that because it shows there's that development shows me like it gives someone me like hope for the future.

Chrissy Myers: Yeah. You can get there.

Josh Troche: That right. I'm not going to continue to run into the brick wall. I will a few more times.

Chrissy Myers: I and I do too. I just you don't see it as much because and you I've identified.

Josh Troche: You don't run into it at a full sprint. You run into it maybe at a brisk walk.

Chrissy Myers: No. Yes. And that was it. This was a this was a speedbump. Because I again, I declare my calendar for three days and say, I mean, and we had a major election, I had a major campaign that I was working on and advocating for, and I was like, I can't be at the polls for those three days. Here's why.

And they're like, okay, we understand. I said, if you want me on Tuesday, I can't be there Friday, Saturday, Sunday. And they went, not a problem. And I was able to rebound, be perfectly fine. But I think also it's always easier to spot things in other people than it is to spot them in ourselves.

Josh Troche: So 100%, that's that's what I get to talk about.

Chrissy Myers: It is and that's why I want to transition to that, because I feel like maybe as we talk about team, maybe you'll have some additional self-reflection.

Josh Troche: I'm sure I will.

Chrissy Myers: Sure. So I mean, I want to know how how do you identify an employee on the brink of burnout? And what are those first few steps that you're doing to remedy the issue? I'm excited for this dialog.

Josh Troche: Yeah. So the first one is it's like just looking at it from pure operational piece. Productivity you see pattern changes in it. And it it may be like hey Monday Tuesday they kick ass. Wednesday Thursday Friday they are completely useless when typically they're a consistent employee. Yeah. It's not necessarily they just go straight to the toilet and hang out there.

No, it's that inconsistency and it's looking for those patterns in that. The other thing that I always like to tell people is one week is not a pattern. No. You need to see the two weeks or three weeks of that to realize that. Okay. Monday. Tuesday. They kill it. Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. They're useless. Okay. If they do that three weeks in a row, there's an issue.

If they do that one week, they had a bad Tuesday night. Yeah. So realize that the other one is too is I. I've watched employees pull back. There's that increased cynicism. There's that detachment. You see, the employees start to look a little bit negative on stuff, and it's it's not the employee that was your greatest cheerleader.

Turning into the, it'll never work kind of person. It's just them. If they were their greatest cheerleaders, they just may not talk as much. Yeah. If they were neutral, they may have more negative things to say. They may not be as engaged. Or they may start. They may start shit with other people in the office. But, yes, I've seen that.

Chrissy Myers: Explosive behavior that you're not used to. Right. That's very out of character for them. Correct. Or they're in your office, like, I need to talk to you. You're like, oh, right.

Josh Troche: Sally did this right? Sally did this, or someone did this, or I guess, yeah. Just to get back at them, I stirred their coffee with my finger. Something of that nature. The other one, the big obvious one is absenteeism. Withdrawal. I mean any, anything like that that you see the one that's big is time padding and it's typically ones that you see out of managers.

Yeah. Where they realize like hey they may start showing up earlier, staying later. And I think of the episode of Seinfeld where George left his car at the at the facility, at the Yankee Stadium. And they're like, George, been doing amazing work. He's here before. I get here, and he's here after that. That's that's just someone presenting.

Yes. It's not actual stuff getting known if people are working harder and not getting as much done. By golly, that should be a time to ask questions. Yeah. Sloppiness, uncharacteristic errors. These are all things like to me, when you start to see those things, those are signs that and I mean, you need to look at that. Like, once again, one mistake isn't a pattern.

Yeah. But you see that a few times. You have to start looking at that and start asking the questions of why. And this is why we talk about culture so much to begin with. Because you have to be able to go into the people and say, hey, something's up, not go into them and be like, dude, you suck.

Yes, because the problem is, it's so many employees because there's not that good supportive relationship in there ahead of time. You cannot approach them saying, hey, your productivity is down a little bit. It if you have a good relationship with them, you can go in and say, hey, I noticed something's up. What do we need to do to fix this?

Yeah. If you don't have the good relationship, they're going to be like, I'm gonna get fired.

Chrissy Myers: Now in strong culture. Strong understanding of how your employees tech, I think, is really important to ensure.

Josh Troche: Oh, gosh.

Chrissy Myers: Yeah. Those conversations. The other thing I would say, too, is you need to be or have a good understanding as a business owner if you are contributing to their burnout. Because if you're running seven 12 hour shifts with no breaks, no PTO, everybody's on mandatory sevens or mandatory sixes or mandatory fives with mandatory overtime.

I mean, if you're in that space, you're like, I don't understand why no one likes it here. I don't understand why everybody's crying or everybody's angry. Everybody's snapping me. It's your fault, dummy. So, I mean, like, you've got to have some idea as to what's going on within your organization. If you are, if your team is so lean that there is no ease or capacity to handle a difficult day, you're going to burn them out over time.

And it may not happen right away. Most teams, if they've got a thick culture, can handle 90 days of hard, but they can't do 180. So you've got I mean, I would say even 90 days is really difficult. 45 manageable. I mean, anybody can do a week of really hard stuff, but you've got to give them a break.

You've got to be able to have that understanding. And just because you are running and burning the candle at both ends and doing all the things that you want to do and like not having any balance does it mean that you get to do that to your team members? It's dumb. Don't do it.

Josh Troche: I didn't light the candle. I threw a blow torch at it.

Chrissy Myers: You did. You did it.

Josh Troche: We were just trying to melt the candle as a whole. I didn't I didn't need the wicks. No. One of the things that I look at for like, how do I remedy this? The what can I take off your plate, check in is one that I like to talk about. Yeah. I like the the the worst question in the world is, how are you?

Because everyone's gonna be like, fine, great.

Chrissy Myers: Let's go ahead. And just leave me alone, right.

Josh Troche: All I can think of is that meme of the dog that's drinking a beer in the bar that is on fire. Yeah. Everything's fine. It's fine. It's all fine. Everything's fine. They're never going to tell, you know, ask specifically about the workload. What? Like where do you feel?

Do you feel pressure from these deadlines? Do you feel like this is going to get done? What are those things? How are we looking for this? Have a priority discussion about it then to what. What needs done now. Yes. They may have ten projects. If they've got ten projects and they think every single one is ten on the priority scale. Guess what.

They're going to burn. Yeah. They are going to burn baby. Burn. Yeah. If they know that there's a ten and three fives and a couple of twos, not a problem.

Chrissy Myers: Makes it easier.

Josh Troche: The other one is, is get off the treadmill. I know there's always big projects coming up. Don't. As soon as someone gets done with a someone just had a three month project. Don't be like, great. Here's a four month project. Yeah. You've essentially moved the goalposts. And they're just never going to feel like they made any progress or got anything done.

Chrissy Myers: And always celebrate when they finish.

Josh Troche: Oh gosh. Yes.

Chrissy Myers: That's the heart. I think that's one that often managers don't do well is they're like, okay, on to the next project. You know what. We had a three month project now where you do a four month project. Can you get let's have a day and celebrate. Let's have let's have some time and let's actually do some good planning around.

Now we've got a larger project because we're growing and things are going well. Let's celebrate it. As opposed to like, great, you did that. Here's the next thing that's and that I think as business owners, we are we are horrible at celebrating in general. So just as you did your job, congrats. You did your job. We all got paid.

Yeah.

Josh Troche: Right.

Chrissy Myers: Now you got to do it again.

Josh Troche: No, I, I agree I am terrible about that. I'm horrible at that. I 100%. The other one is that skill gap assessment. Yeah. That's good. There are the big thing that I see is people just because they're good at in the area doesn't mean they're good at all things in that area.

Yes. And sometimes you have given something to someone that there's one small piece that is going to sink them. And that's they get stuck on. And so take a look and go over these projects and be like look is there a thing that we need to like move to someone else. Yeah. And moving an hour's worth of work can totally unload someone. And it's a it's amazing.

The other one instance too is like, protect their focus and deep work. As business owners, we need to do this, too. I have a great story from someone we both know. Dead parks. Okay. He was, he went into a factory. He's a business consultant. Went into a factory, and, like he said, they talked to 120, 140 people.

Because by the time you talk to nine people, you know what the problems are? Yes. And he goes, there was a section, a whole group that would literally talk at the beginning of the week and say, we're booking this week, every month. We're just blocking this on our calendar so we can get stuff done. Yeah, that's a problem, because if people are in meetings so much that they can't get their stuff done, they're gonna get stressed out.

Yes. And he said the funniest thing about that was, is he goes, I tell this to all the managers and he goes, you see a couple of them start to jump on their computer, and the one of them just, you goes about ten minutes later, the one I'm going to. Shit, it's my group. Because he realized his group, he was having so many meetings with his group.

Yes. Meetings are where you don't get anything done in meetings? No. You talk about what needs to get done, but you don't get anything done in meetings. The other thing is, turn off the turn off the email. Turn off the phone. If it's someone that's in an office, let them work from home. Get away from the office.

If that's a distraction for them to go work from home this week. Yeah. Get this thing done. If that's good. If you if you can work better on your back porch. Do it. Do it. The other one is to is like, figure out why so many people, they get rushing these projects because the deadline isn't there.

They're like, oh, this. I need this. We got to get this done ASAP, my ASAP. And you're ASAP.

Chrissy Myers: Oh, they're very different.

Josh Troche: They could be very different. Yeah, they could be very, very different. And I found too, there's times where I'm like, hey, I'm like, we've got 3 or 4 projects that we need to get edited right away. And that's on top of the 5 or 6 that I already that I said yesterday, we need to get edited right away. And I'm like, I just told her we need ten podcasts edited before three today.

Chrissy Myers: So you need to define the expectations.

Josh Troche: Correct? Correct. I screwed up the priority. Yeah. I, I was the one that said here's too much. And that's my screw up and I'm the one that needs to go to the customer and say, look, I may have set this expectation a little bit, a little bit high for you. Yes. I need to eat that.

Not my employees. Yes. So. Yeah, making sure that happens. The other thing is, like I said, is, is clarify those those priorities and effort where the top three priorities. What are the top three things stopping people and make sure that we've got are we want to get a good enough standard. We want to get to the standard that we need to in order to get this done, in order to get this done in a way that's going to make the customer happy.

Yeah. It doesn't always need to be perfect. So make sure that they don't feel that pressure. What happens when you ignore turn out. I, I saw that you put, like, putting this in here. Yeah. And, as soon as I saw that the other day, I'm like, oh, I can't wait to ask Chrissie this question.

Like, what is the cost of ignoring burnout? And I can see you're excited to answer this at me.

Chrissy Myers: Sometimes it's really even hard to manage. But I mean, and to really quantify by staff turnover, increased errors. I mean, hospital visits, I mean like burnout. Burnout isn't just an HR issue. It's really a business risk. And when you when you ignore it, you're paying the price in turnover and disengagement. And preventable errors. I mean, and again, yes, actual hospital visits.

If burnout has created such a stressful environment on your body, you end up in the hospital because you ignore all the warning signs. I mean, think about that. I have watched high performers in an organization and business owners and myself. I mean, we go from NVP to out of the office with anxiety. I mean, and it's rarely like about the workload.

Josh Troche: I couldn't I couldn't open my laptop. Now, I laid in bed and for me to not even like for me to ignore my email. Oh, I was just I.

Chrissy Myers: Was when you texted me, you're like, I'm sick. I'm not going to be available. I was like, oh my God, he's dying.

Josh Troche: Right? It's bad. Right, right. You knew it. You knew I didn't just have the sniffles. Yeah.

Chrissy Myers: Yeah. And I think that for some people with burnout, the struggle with them, it's not when they're out. It's also that weight of not being seen, heard or supported. So that can really cause some additional problems when it comes to to recovery from burnout. Is that can they can they handle that piece?

Josh Troche: It's funny you say that because I have had a tough time coming back from this. Yeah. To say, okay. Because I'm like, now I'm behind and I need to catch up. Yes. And so what is that fine line that I need to walk to make sure that I don't put myself right back under? Yeah. And it's, I've had to be very intentional.

Like last night I went home and I'm like, I am tired. And we literally sat on the couch watch Seinfeld. And at 8:00 I'm like, I'm going to bed. Yes. And I surfed Instagram. Uh-huh. Just made sure Instagram was the only app that I was going to. And it was just it's dumb motorcycle stuff and horrific comedy.

Are the things that I'm going to watch, but that it that I'm like, I have to check out.

Chrissy Myers: You do? I mean, you have to let yourself rest. You have to let yourself recover. And I will tell you, I have come back from burnout. I'm like, I've recovered from my burnout. And I should have probably taken a week or two weeks off. And because I came back too early that I'm out for another two, three weeks because I came back too hard.

Josh Troche: The other piece too, that did it wrong that I want to talk about with that too. Is that productivity piece. Yeah. Because I am trying to come back and I'm trying to. And then it was funny the other night. I'm like okay I got I got shit to do. I got to get stuff caught up. And suddenly I notice I'm like settling with settings on something or I'm like, I'm like, this is not productive.

Chrissy Myers: I'm still burnout.

Josh Troche: I'm like, why the hell am I doing this? I ordered some nice shirts on eBay. Good job. But yeah. And I'm like, but I'm still sitting in my office in front of the computer working, even though it's zero productivity. Yeah. And it's making sure that I'm intentional about like if I'm going to be in that situation and if I'm not going to be, I need to get the hell out of there.

Yeah. Like, why is culture make it easier to spot when when, for lack of a better term, shit's about to hit the fan?

Chrissy Myers: So, culture, what gives you an early warning system? So if people don't feel, like they can be safe being real, they're not going to say they're drowning. So culture really allows you to have that early warning system so that instead they're just going to start missing deadlines and they're going to make costly mistakes.

So it's really if it's that telltale sign when you've got a good tech culture and you've got people that feel safe to be able to speak up and say, hey, you gave me six projects. I can only really handle four right now, or you you gave me ten projects. Our software can only process eight of these in the amount of time that you need them to be done by, as opposed to that person just being like, they're never going to help me, or I give up or just walk out.

It's really important. And those those are the things when you can foster that communication and you can have those conversations. It really helps you. I mean, especially when things get tough, when pressure gets hard, because then your team is able to spot those issues. And sometimes to your team, it's able to spot when you're on the edge of burnout.

I mean, I have team members now that will just flat out come to me and say, we're concerned about you. And I'm like, they're not even close to where my line is. I'm like, okay, sure.

Josh Troche: Great. No. That's great. It is that that truly is. It's funny for me because like I said, that the you you see it in the people. You just know when that, that, that healthy culture gives you that visibility. Yeah. Where you can start to see it. The, the next piece that we're going to kind of discuss here is one that I truly and this is my favorite part about it because it's kind of nuanced.

Yeah. It's that difference between helping a burnt out employee and enabling poor performance. And to me, very simple. If it's a performance change, yes, that's the sign of burnout. Yes. If it's just been bad. Well you you made the wrong I agree.

Chrissy Myers: Agree. Because you know support doesn't mean rescuing. No, no. When someone's burnout helping them it might mean time off. It might mean clarifying the expectations. It might be coaching. It is not ignoring accountability. Accountability is still there.

There's still an expectation around what the work performance should be. But there are moments. Ringo. This is again, not the normal performance that we see from this person. What's going on? What is causing it? And I think that I mean enable asking the question.

Josh Troche: Yep. Asking the question. Yes. What is the cause of this?

Chrissy Myers: Yes. Because enabling looks like excusing performance without getting to the root. Helping means addressing both the person and the pattern. So I mean, I don't I don't coddle my team. I don't I.

Josh Troche: I wouldn't expect to.

Chrissy Myers: Know anyone, but I do care enough to coach them through anything.

Josh Troche: Yes.

Chrissy Myers: So that's what's really important.

Josh Troche: The other piece to that is, and this is another one that I was excited to talk about. We have highlighted sustainable output over relentless, unsustainable effort. And it's funny. I was just talking with Kim about this the other day. From my personal perspective, I run at 11.

Chrissy Myers: Yeah.

Josh Troche: Me too. When I take a break, I run at 10.6. Yes. That is where I run. Yes. Kim, run like she can run at nine for a couple of days, and then she's going to have a couple of days at two. Yeah. It's figuring out that type of effort that people can put out. Yes. And what works.

And it's it. There's an ebb and a flow to it. If someone runs at nine. They probably need to come back at two for a little while to recover. If you put them in a five, well, they can run at five all day long and never, never look back. But you've got to find that balance. And what's tough for us.

You already know where I'm going with this. 11 is just.

Chrissy Myers: 11 is normal.

Josh Troche: Right. 11 is low.

Chrissy Myers: End. When people are like how do you get all this stuff done. And there's times where like me, like I don't know how you don't get anything done. It's because okay here this is the assessment train okay. I want to go. Woohoo! Manifesting generator achiever relator on the Strengthsfinder code. And Colby I am an eight eight, which means hi fact finder high follow through, which means I can do probably twice the amount of work of the normal person.

And that's not ego, it's just how I'm wired. Yeah.

Josh Troche: So there's some words cross.

Chrissy Myers: There are. And I'm totally willing to own that. And that's one of the things that I when I have new team members, when we onboard people, I give them a lot of this information. Say, look, this is who I am. I work very hard to be manageable to other people. I have a lot of things going on, in part so I don't exhaust everybody else around me.

And I think that as a leader, it's really important for you to understand where your burnout edges and also understand that the majority of your team members probably all of them, are not going to hold a candle to where you are and your burnout square on a scale on your burnout meter. And I will say this too, and I think this is probably more important for people in middle management than it is necessarily for the business owner.

But we have got to stop clapping for the last person that leaves the office.

Josh Troche: I wholeheartedly agree with that one. To me, I've got a piece on this. Salary is awful in today's world because it is. Just get everything. All the things done and we it is another way. In so many ways, it has been exploited from my perspective as to just get more blood from the stone. It should be.

Get your stuff done. Get the hell out of here. 3:00. Awesome. Go home. Yeah.

Chrissy Myers: It's totally fine. Or you want to come in later? That's okay. I mean, I think productivity at the expense of people isn't sustainable.

Josh Troche: And we.

Chrissy Myers: Can't do.

Josh Troche: It. It is not. And they've pushed so hard on that. Yes. And I mean, this goes back to that Jack Welch culture. Oh, right. Oh, I knew as soon as I said that I was going to get a visceral reaction from you. No, no no, no. It is, it is it is that just constant pushing? Yeah. You can't do that.

You get so much more from people. When you show them that, hey, here's the goal post, get to that goal post and you're done.

Chrissy Myers: Exactly.

Josh Troche: And make it an attainable goal post. Don't make it 175 yard field. It's 100 yard.

Chrissy Myers: Field. And stop moving the goalposts for everybody. Correct. It's got to have a stopping point. I think we need to be celebrate team members who deliver consistent and healthy output. It's not always about time. I mean, and the reverse I was having a conversation with with Julie at our office today, and she was talking about, you know, when she first got to our organization, it was like she could tell everybody leaves at five.

She's like, but I have one thing I want to finish. It's going to take me ten minutes or like, no, you got to go now. As opposed to, you know, let's have dialog. If somebody is there for an extra five minutes because they're laughing with a colleague, don't rush them out of the office. It's okay to have balance.

If people need to come in a little bit later, because I got to get their kids on the bus. That's fine. What are the expectations? How do we continue to to move forward?

Josh Troche: I have a Leiria story about that when I was at the truck dealership. Okay. I'm an executive. I was required to be there from 8 to 5. And like, at 5:00, we were literally lined up at the door to. I'm an executive lined up at the door to leave at five because there was zero flexibility in anything.

And. Right. Yeah. Right. I mean, if you're going to make if like, the owner would scream if you got there at 803. Right. Right. So if you're going to scream at me for being three minutes late, life sure as hell am not going to stay three minutes late at night. So if I've got if it's 530 and I've got something that's going to take me 35 minutes to get done, or if it's four, 430, and it's going to take me 35 minutes to get done.

Guess what. Not doing it. Not doing it. That I do it at. Yeah. It's it's funny how that culture changes that. To wrap this all up. Yeah. And so I can go take a nap and recover. Yeah. Couple of clear, actionable takeaways. For the business owner. The middle manager. Anyone who wants to make their business more resilient.

Yeah. So I knew that would get you to Smile Center. It is, resilient. Sustainable. The first one I'm going to say is patterns. Look for patterns in people. If you see a pattern change. Something has changed. One time is not a pattern. Look for patterns. Yeah.

Chrissy Myers: I would say audit your scope for yourself. Your key employees. You do not have to do it all to lead at all.

Josh Troche: But I like.

Chrissy Myers: No.

Josh Troche: Define done what is done? It doesn't. I mean, there's times where it's just a check box. Great. But if it's writing something, if it's something creative. Make sure that there's that. There's a you have an established level of polish that it needs to get to where you can say, yep, we're good.

Chrissy Myers: Yeah. And we're going to celebrate sustainability, not survival.

Josh Troche: Oh, God, you stop.

Chrissy Myers: Clapping for that last person. Leave the office.

Josh Troche: Yep. Yep. The other thing is, is model what you want to see. This is the. This is the tough one in some cases. Because we we want to make sure that we are doing things correctly, but we are addicts. We're addicts to our business and stuff like that. So make sure we handle it the right way.

Chrissy Myers: And really listen and watch for the warning signs. And don't freaking ignore them. Josh.

Josh Troche: I, I yeah, I know, I listened, I watched, and like I said, every dashboard light was lit up and I'm like, Laura, we go anyway. All right. Single most effective boundary you've put in. That's Hey, I'm not going to go down in a blaze of glory.

Chrissy Myers: That was reclaiming my after hours time. So started with no phone at dinner with our kids. And then it went also to we. I am generally only out one night per week during the week.

Josh Troche: I, I you said that a few episodes ago. Yeah.

Chrissy Myers: It's a big deal.

Josh Troche: I've recently put that in. Good job. Yeah. Yep.

Chrissy Myers: Yeah. Okay. For you. What's the quickest system you can implement tomorrow to reduce task pressure on an overworked team member?

Josh Troche: Time. Spend 15 minutes and just talk to your people. Ask them things. Something has a date that you can put off. But you don't know that until you sit down and have an honest and open conversation. We don't stress those.

Chrissy Myers: No, not at all.

Josh Troche: Sweaty ten minute.

Chrissy Myers: Conversation.

Josh Troche: Great. That's, To everyone out there that is wanting to take care of control of their health and protect their teams and their, next year's, health care budget. Because I believe I just upped ours. Yeah. Is, Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for joining us.

Chrissy, this once again has been educational. You have been there, done that. And it's always interesting to hear your perspective on it. For those of you that want more resources, Business fix podcast.com, make sure to follow us on all the social media is at the business, fix a review a subscription, go a long way in helping us help other business owners. If you know a business owner that's going through this.

Please tag them. We would love to to help someone else not hit the wall at 700 miles an hour. You lit up when we said, the word resiliency.

Chrissy Myers: Yes.

Josh Troche: That is what we're talking about next week. I fully expect to stay quiet in the seat and just have Chrissy rip her face in half from smiling. So much.

Chrissy Myers: So excited.

Josh Troche: I know you are two for one out there. Thank you very much. Do me a favor. Take care of yourself so you don't end up like the. If you can take care of someone else. We will see you very, very soon.