What Employees Expect From Leaders in Today’s Workplace

What do employees really expect from their leaders today and why are so many leaders missing the mark?

In this episode of The Business Fix, Chrissy and Josh break down the unspoken expectations employees have of their leaders in today’s workplace and why pay, perks, and benefits aren’t enough to keep people engaged or loyal anymore.

From clarity and consistency to honesty, fairness, and predictable leadership, this conversation digs into what actually drives employee retention, motivation, and trust. You’ll hear real-world examples of leadership mistakes that quietly push good employees out the door, why “quiet quitting” is really a leadership issue, and how small breakdowns in communication create massive cultural problems.

You’ll learn why employees leave leaders (not companies) and the three non-negotiables they expect from leadership. Chrissy and Josh explain how clarity and consistency reduce anxiety, boost performance, and create trust, why predictability matters more than perfection, and how poor leadership habits quietly kill engagement. You’ll also walk away with simple, practical ways to build loyalty, psychological safety, and a workplace people actually want to be part of. 

If you’re a business owner or manager frustrated by turnover, disengagement, or the feeling that “no one wants to work anymore,” this episode challenges that mindset and offers practical, actionable ways to become the kind of leader employees want to work for.

Listen now and learn how to lead in a way that keeps your best people engaged, growing, and showing up motivated without relying on pizza parties or ping-pong tables.

If you're looking to get help with your culture, or to help out an entire group, reach out to Josh and Chrissy today!  We would love to see how we can help you, your business, or your event. Contact us!

ClarityHR is your fractional HR team, giving you real people, real support, and real solutions. Whether it’s compliance headaches, hiring struggles, or just needing someone to take the people stuff off your plate — we’ve got your back. So if you’re ready to stop using duct-tape and hope as your HR strategy and finally get some peace of mind, head over to ClarityHR.com

If you're looking to start your own podcast or maybe you just want to add the next level of professionalism to your podcast and brand, you should be working with the producers behind The Business Fix at Pedal Stomper Productions. Click the link to learn more about how you can get your podcast to the next level. https://www.pedalstomperproductions.com

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Transcript

Josh Troche: Contrary to popular belief, people don't leave jobs because of the pay. They do, but not as often. Rare, right? It's not necessarily the benefits. Nope. I have watched people get crappy pay and crappy benefits. But what do they have? An amazing boss. Yeah. Amazing leadership. They've got just they they don't go to work every day and think, what bus is going to hit me? Nope. Or they don't hope they get hit by a bus on the way to work, because there's not this existential dread.

Chrissy Myers: Yeah.

Josh Troche: That so many people have. And in so many cases, when I hear no one wants to work anymore, I always think you just have misaligned expectations for you. Correct. Of what your employees should expect from you. That I drag that on long. That's good. Thanks, thanks. We're going to talk about that today. Stay tuned.

Josh Troche: She's the CEO.

Chrissy Myers: He's the marketing and operations guy.

Josh Troche: If it's broken you need.

Chrissy Myers: The business fix.

Josh Troche: This is going to be interesting because you've kind of always been working for the same place.

Chrissy Myers: Yes.

Josh Troche: I have a ton of experience with horrible, horrible leadership.

Chrissy Myers: I've watched other people do it wrong. I'm sure I've done it wrong, too. I know I've done it wrong, but.

Josh Troche: Yes, yes. I have been on both ends of that stick. I have done it horribly wrong myself. I have also been on the the most. I when I think back to when I've switched jobs. Yeah. It's been 90% of the time because of the boss. I had one that I mean this is going to be crude, but this will tell you the leadership. He would come over and fart in your cubicle and think it was funny. No. Correct. That is not.

Chrissy Myers: Clearly. You did not have HR.

Josh Troche: No. We did.

Chrissy Myers: Oh you did.

Josh Troche: Oh, gosh. Very large company. Very large company. Right, right. Oh, this was 25 years ago when stand was more acceptable.

Chrissy Myers: But no. That's never.

Josh Troche: Acceptable. It's not. But that's. That's why I left. Yeah. When I have leadership like that, that's.

Chrissy Myers: For to know what your exit.

Josh Troche: interview was like. I mean, that wasn't the sole reason. There were some others. Okay. But, I mean, it tells you about the leadership there. What kind of leader? What kind of people do you have in leadership where they think it's funny to fart in someone's cubicle?

Chrissy Myers: [silence].

Josh Troche: No. People aren't doing that at your company.

Chrissy Myers: No, we do not do that. It's not a thing. Not a thing.

Josh Troche: I mean, considering there's H.R. in the title, you know, I'm assuming you guys don't fart ever, until you just get in the car and go.

Chrissy Myers: I don't know, I can't tell you that. I can tell you that there's some things that are not fun.

Josh Troche: Let's see all the information. Yes. I figured for this week's banter, we could talk farting. Okay.

Chrissy Myers: Thanks for that. That was great. I feel like I'm dealing with my 13 year old.

Josh Troche: Yeah. No, that. Yes. You are. In some ways. In some ways, you very much are. To me, when you hire someone, it's this implicit contract of like look they're going to give time, energy, loyalty and in return they are going to expect certain things from you. And it's not just a paycheck. Yeah. Oh. Imagine that. I, I made sure when I wrote this that I put in one of the expectations is do you want to say it?

Chrissy Myers: Clarity.

Josh Troche: Very good. Yes. I figured I'd give you that word. Consistency and opportunity. Those are the other two. That to me, that. That's what makes a good work experience. Yes. If it's clear, it's consistent, and they've got some opportunity in it. That's hard. That's all people want. And the paycheck, too. But that's kind of a given. There's some non-negotiables in this that employees should be able to expect from their leader. To me, I want to hear your take on what some of those things are and what, like when you fulfill those things. How does that build loyalty? How does that make people want to come to work instead of like, oh damn, it's Monday. Yeah.

Chrissy Myers: So I would say a few things. The first is, you know, before we even start with it, it's when someone chooses to work for you. They're not just accepting their paycheck. They're handing you something that's really sacred. They're handing you their time.

Josh Troche: Yes.

Chrissy Myers: They're handing you their energy, and they're really handing you their livelihood. Oh, because it is just a it is a paycheck for them. But that paycheck is what supports their livelihood. And the fact that they are giving you their time is time away from their family is time away from other things. So I believe that there are a few non-negotiables that every employee deserves from the person that is leading them. And we've talked about them before. We've talked about clarity, consistency, and care in past episodes because, you know, alliteration is memorable and it matters. So I want to dig a little bit more into into those three big ones and really kind of give you a little bit more through them.

Chrissy Myers: So clarity is a really clarity of vision. So people want to know where they're going and why it matters. And it doesn't need to be a glossy 80 slide strategy deck. It means that you are talking to them and you're giving them direction, and you're doing it in a clear manner. So you're going to paint the picture, you're going to connect the work to the mission. And we have I mean, we have a purpose statement of clarity. And anyway, we provide peace of mind by simplifying the complicated. We take two things that are complicated HR and insurance. And we help make them simple for everybody to understand so that they can buy our products. And you show them how what you do in purpose contributes to the greater whole. Because when people understand the why, it's much easier for them to show up with purpose. Yes. And they show up with their purpose, not just their presence.

Josh Troche: I love the fact that you kept the mission statement or the statement that you just said, yeah, simple. It is, like you said, not an 80 page slide deck.

Chrissy Myers: You can't simplify the complicated by doing an 80 page slide. That's not work. No, no.

Josh Troche: No. Keep it simple. You make it so it's easy to do. Yes.

Chrissy Myers: So the second one is is really honesty and transparency. So this is the trust builder. Or it can be the trust breaker depending on how you do this. So employees do not expect things to be perfect. Employees don't want you to be perfect. Because if you're perfect and it's you're not human. And if you're not human, it means that you don't make mistakes and so that they can't make mistakes. So they don't expect things to be perfect. But they do always expect the truth. And so for that it's say what's really going on, even if it's hard, even if it's uncertain, I don't know is an okay answer in in certain situations. Don't make stuff up. Don't sugarcoat. Don't make things vague because it only creates confusion. And when you're creating confusion, they're looking for another place to spend their time. All right. People can handle hard news. What they can't handle is being left in the dark.

Josh Troche: Now, I if I can, the the truth and the perfection piece. Yes, I like because if you appear perfect, you do not appear believable. Correct. And they want to know that that you can be honest with them. And if you're right, every single time, guess what? You're not believable.

Chrissy Myers: Well, and studies have shown especially with, with millennials, with with Gen Z and with the younger the the the littlest of the generation Gen Alpha, I had to think for a second, my 13 year olds and I authenticity is really what's most important when they're talking about leadership. They don't care about your skills. They really care about is this a real person? Is this a genuine person? Can I believe what they're saying? They want you to be authentic with you.

Josh Troche: With them? 100%.

Chrissy Myers: Yeah. And then the third one I would say is, again, we talk about consistency, but it's really fairness and consistency. Yeah I mean culture is built in those moments when there's no one watching as a leader. And that means, you know, no special treatment, no bending the rules for your go to person. If the rules don't apply equally to everyone, including the leader, your credibility takes a hit quickly. And that's what I would say, really, as a leader is you've got to show up and model what you want to see. So if you're and if we've said this in another episode, like, you better model what you mandate.

Josh Troche: You know, you know which one I'm talking. What's one I'm thinking of.

Chrissy Myers: I know I want to know which one.

Josh Troche: The relationships at work. Oh gosh. The example that you gave that was golden was the couple that owns the business that mandates no dating in the business.

Chrissy Myers: Yes. That's my favorite. That is we talk about relationships in the work. No, we met here. We got married here. But no one else can find love. No. That's one. Another one is, you know, I expect everyone to be here at 8:00 am on the dot. Shows up at 1030 like that. You can't do that. As the organizational leader, if timeliness is something that you are going, it's a hill you're going to die on, then you better die on it with your team and show up at the same time.

Chrissy Myers: So you've got to be consistent. The other thing I would say is you know, when you lead with these things, you know, again, we talk about how people don't need perfection, but they do need predictability. And consistency really creates that safety. And safety is what allows teams to thrive. We have I know we talk about psychological safety and sometimes people like that give me a weird look cause they're like, does it really matter? Yes, it does, especially when you're working on innovation, when you're working on the potential of something that could have a failure rate. They've got to be able to know that how you show up is how you always show up. So being consistent in your emotions, being consistent in your language, being consistent in your actions, and being fair in how you deliver that consistency with your people.

Chrissy Myers: And so when you're leading with with clarity, with honesty and with fairness, your team doesn't just perform. They really believe you. Yeah. They feel seen, they feel safe. And they're far more likely to go that extra mile not because they're afraid not to, but because they want to. And that's it. What you don't want is, is a group of people that are in fear of dealing with their leader and like what? What's the weather going to be like? Which way is the wind blowing? You want to make sure that it's it's consistent. And remember that culture isn't built on those perks. It's really built on predictable leadership. You showing up every day consistently with clarity, being able to explain your vision, being fair and being honest and transparent is really what's going to help the organization move forward. And that's what makes people want to show up and work for you.

Josh Troche: It's funny you say the culture isn't built on perks. I've always said culture is not built on pizza, ping pong and pandering. It's just not.

Chrissy Myers: No it's not. And as someone who runs an employee benefits company, I will tell you that people don't stay for the benefits. They don't.

Josh Troche: That's why we.

Chrissy Myers: have the piece.

Josh Troche: Yeah, no.

Chrissy Myers: Because we were watching it and people are like, well, we have these great benefits. Why aren't they staying? It's like, what else are you doing to help?

Josh Troche: Sometimes you're terrible people.

Chrissy Myers: You're not a good leader. I don't like having that conversation.

Josh Troche: That's the difficult part. But their health.

Chrissy Myers: insurance is amazing. And it's like, no, yeah. It's not. People don't stay for the health insurance.

Josh Troche: Yeah. Especially when you look at most people don't use it.

Chrissy Myers: Now that's another conversation.

Josh Troche: It is it.

Chrissy Myers: Is. So the challenge for a business owner Josh or leader making those expectations a reality right. So what do you use to avoid the breakdowns that lead to confusion, resentment and your top person from exiting? I know you've got some good operational insights here.

Josh Troche: The the one is I believe like ambiguity sucks.

Chrissy Myers: We are in alignment on our first one.

Josh Troche: Yes, yes. I mean, this is like. I know what I want someone to do.

Chrissy Myers: Do they are they a mind reader?

Josh Troche: Right. Are they, like, did I give them an expectation for the biggest thing that I see? And there's two pieces to this is one I just kind of give a general destination, like I would say go to Cleveland. Well, if they end up on the far side of Cleveland. And I wanted them, like on in Playhouse Square. Yes. Why didn't I tell them go to Playhouse Square? Yes. So like, tell them, but don't tell them how to get there. Give them, tell them exactly where we need to go and then let them do their thing. Yeah, that is that expectation that allows them to do their thing. But once again, they know exactly where they need to end up. I want you the center of playhouse Square, right underneath the chandelier. They may take six train. They may take a taxi, they may take an Uber. They may take a bicycle. They may take a kayak. Who knows? Although that's hard on the street. But give them that. And then it's asking, how can I help and what roadblocks can I removed? But once again, it's this clear expectation of where where do they need to go? And like. Exactly. Yes, generally exactly.

Chrissy Myers: Where they may be a good explainer of things.

Josh Troche: Yes. And I didn't explain that very well, which is I so, so ironic. On the flip side of that, when you ask them, how can I help? What roadblocks do you need removed? There's nothing worse than going to your boss and saying, hey, I've got this roadblock. And the boss says, great, I'll take care of it. And two weeks later you're like, I still have the same problem. The boss is like, oh, I forgot about that.

Chrissy Myers: I forgot about.

Josh Troche: that.

Chrissy Myers: No, don't. Yeah, yeah. Because you just you just sent the message that they don't matter 100%.

Josh Troche: Anything anything committed, you got to write it down. Log, write down, task list, whatever. And it needs a single owner. Don't be like, hey, this is a group project. Nope.

Chrissy Myers: No, that that statement of if everyone owns it, no one owns it. I hate that, but it's so true.

Josh Troche: And I mean, think back to grade school when you had a group project in grade school. I guarantee you did it. Yes, yes, I'm pointing right at you, Chris.

Chrissy Myers: I'm watching my daughter, Madeline, do the same things. And actually, I'm watching my son, Caleb, do the same. And I'm like, why are you doing the whole project? Because I can't trust this person to do it. I'm like, have you let them? Have you even tried to let them do it? No. Like, okay, that's Madeline. Caleb's like yes. And they failed. I'm like, okay. There's different level of expectations. My 13 year old will trust people for a moment. My daughter has no trust. It's like, you know. Yeah.

Josh Troche: She'll get their apple tree or something.

Chrissy Myers: So get there. I mean, I was not far from that for a very long time.

Josh Troche: To me, like, this is there's so many programs out there I saw on a Monday. Trello. Yeah. Tasks. Teamwork, right. Teamwork. There's thousands of these things that can help you guide you through this. But the expectation is, is if something is said, it's got to get done and your employees, if they come to you with something and you say, I'm going to do it, if you don't do that, you're done. Yes. That's it. Any trust like and the problem is, is that the trust and this is one of the big things that your employees expect from you is that trust that we talked about. It takes so long to earn. And so much of that can be eroded in one fell swoop. Yes. If you are Johnny on the spot 99% of the time, and you forget once and you correct it on the spot, you're at 80%. Yeah, if you're Johnny on the spot 90% of the time and someone says, hey, we missed this, guess what? You're back to ten. Yeah, I mean, it it. And it takes you so long to build that up.

Josh Troche: It the the. As I was writing this, it was kind of funny to me. Employees expect their organization to be organized. Like, what a revelation that was. As I was typing this out, I'm like, they expect their organization to be organized. And I'm like, Holy cow. And what what was interesting about it to me was, there's so many times where I saw a complete disorganization around me in other jobs, and I've been in where no one knew what was going on. There was things that kind of in limbo, like, oh, we're waiting on this. Or and you knew it was just disorganization. Yeah. And I was like, it was just funny. I was thinking about, like, their boss to be organized and then like, no, it's an organization that they're in.

Chrissy Myers: Yeah, it's a systems issue.

Josh Troche: Right. But then I'm like, organization should be organized, Yeah. Talk about your all time duh moments. Yes. And that organization, that's what's going to deliver the consistency that people want. You talked about consistency. Yeah 100%. If if I walk into a shitstorm, I want to know which way the wind's blowing. I worked for someone. Where I kid you not, you could come in with data and numbers and everything, and he'd be like, nope. Other times you could come in with just a sheer like, hey, I think we should failing. And he would just be like, yep, do it. And you're like, and the the complete lack of consistency, not only in the answers. Yeah, but in the like the way he treated different people. There was zero consistency in the company. And because of that it raised my anxiety level.

Josh Troche: I'm like, once again I mean, the shitstorm analogy, is it coming from the East? Is it coming from the West? I mean, there was times where you're like, okay, I don't know where it's going to come from. I'm going to pull my umbrella down. And it started coming up from the ground and you're like, you just.

Chrissy Myers: Not what I planned for.

Josh Troche: Right? Yeah, yeah. It's that complete lack of predicting you. Like there's so many things that are unpredictable in business, and that's a big part of the reason why we're in business is to handle those things. Your interaction with your employees and your coworkers should not be one of those things that's unpredictable.

Chrissy Myers: No, that should make that should be the enjoyable part 100%. That's why we're doing the human connection. I'm really like, yes, we want money because we do the things, but it's also about human connection 100%.

Josh Troche: And they should know, like what to expect. It's it's the that that's that's huge. That is comforting for everyone. And we talked about fear last time as business owners, a lot of the reason why we don't try new things is because we have the fear. Yeah. Of change. Well, if you put every single one of your employees in fear because they have no idea what your next move is going to be, right? Six times, right? This is another one of those episodes I believe is stressing Chrissy.

Chrissy Myers: Out like, well, I mean, there's because it's it's anxiety inducing knowing that that organization is not doing the service that it needs to and not just in service to its itself and being successful, but in service to the employees and the team members that are there. So that's the part that always makes me sad in the situation is like, you know, you probably have really good people that want to do good work and they can't.

Josh Troche: Now in that role want to. I mean, I had the ability to effect a lot of change, but I didn't because I just didn't know how it was going to be perceived. There was no risk taking. There was no nothing. It was just go in and kind of muddle through the day. It got the paycheck. We could have done so many amazing things. But just. Yeah.

Josh Troche: The other thing is, is employees hate feeling stuck. Not everyone wants to move up the ladder, and that's awesome. But most people want to grow, a dead end job doesn't mean they can't get promoted. It means that they can't learn now.

Chrissy Myers: Oh, I like that.

Josh Troche: Yeah. I mean, people should be able to learn and grow and and get things from their job. What I worry about with this and employees can feel that this is a trap. You're smiling because, you know, I've got where I'm going with this is there's so many times where people like, hey, we want you to learn a new skill. Ergo, we want you to learn how to do something new so you can do more work. And we're going to pay you the same. That is a problem. That is what so many employees end up with on their lap. Don't do that. Yeah. I mean there's there's a reason why so many employees, when you try and give them something new, they're like, no. Sounds like more responsibility for the same pay. No, thanks.

Josh Troche: If you are doing things to to help them get ahead, by golly, I mean, Nika are my editor. I send her videos occasionally, and I'm like, watch this. This can help you. Yeah. It's training her so she can get better at her job so she can be more efficient at her job. That doesn't mean I'm going to send her 10,000 other responsibilities. No, no, it means I want her to have an easier time. I want her to feel better about what she's doing. I want her to feel more confident what she's doing. It so often it just becomes. And I've been in this situation where, like, hey, we'd like you to do this. And ironically, it's something that someone that just left used to do. We're just going to take this person's job, and we're going to split it off into four different directions, and we're knocking around. We're not going to hire anyone else because that's efficient. No, no it's not. Employees look at that as a trap. So you need to find a way to let your employees or assist your employees in moving forward and in growing without it being like, hey, you're my dumping ground for a bunch of extra work that you're not going to get paid for.

Chrissy Myers: Oh, completely agree.

Josh Troche: There's, I've been like I said, I've been on both sides of this. I've been where they're like, hey, here's some tools that can help you become more efficient. Awesome. Love it. Here's learning something. Here's doing something. I ate that stuff up. Yeah. When it's here's tool so you can do more stuff and still make the same amount.

Chrissy Myers: Well, and I would say too, as it relates to learning, if you want to foster learning in your organization, you have to be a learner too.

Josh Troche: Yep.

Chrissy Myers: You have to be coachable. You have to be open to change. And you have to be willing to grow yourself on your leadership scale. When I see organizations that are struggling, oftentimes that is because the leader doesn't see the value in developing themselves and developing their leadership skills. They're like, oh, I've got to figure it out. I'm like, what you did is a $3 million company is not what you can do as an $8 million company. And as much as you think you may have it all figured out, the people leaving with with the, the, the number of people that are not staying and the fact that you're making the same mistakes and the fact that you're having the same problems over and over and over again, leads me to believe that there might be an issue. And I know that you don't think it's you, but do you maybe think we should think about it?

Josh Troche: Maybe.

Chrissy Myers: Maybe you.

Josh Troche: Just say.

Chrissy Myers: I maybe had this conversation a couple times.

Josh Troche: There's a song about I'm in the problem. It's me.

Chrissy Myers: Yeah, I'm telling you. Yes. She's left. She's she's right. And there's a couple times where I've looked at people and said, you know, it's okay to say that you're the problem. Yeah, I will wholeheartedly own that half the time in the organization, I am the problem. Yep. Or if something has happened or gone wrong in the organization, it's because I didn't do something, I didn't, I wasn't clear, I wasn't fair or consistent. I wasn't having the I mean, it's the things that I didn't do.

Josh Troche: Yep. So no, I totally get that. The way to make sure that you train people. Yes. And not overload them and not just turn them into your dumping ground. To me, it's 30, 60, 90 day plans. Yeah, there's a development roadmap. Here's what I think you can be doing in the in the next year. Here's where I see your position developing. I mean, look, unless you're just stamping something out, jobs are changing so quickly with AI. Exactly. So to give them these tools to help them with these tools, give them the roadmap with that so they can see that, hey, this is growth to help both of us. Yes. Not just to turn you into dumping.

Chrissy Myers: Ground, but again, when you can, when you can have the conversations and be transparent with them about these are the things that we're looking at and this is what's going on. I mean, we've talked about, you know, I don't know that some that are robots going to replace you, but someone who has the ability to use AI may replace you if you're resistant to change. And so as we're building some of these things, I think it's really important that you're having conversations. And also with your 30, 60, 90. This is why we have, you know, feedback. This is why we talk about performance. This is why we have performance evaluations. Hey, this is what we're doing. This is where we're going. This is why we show appreciation to our employees or we coach them if we need them to do more or we need to have a different outcome. So it's it's really it's important that you're you're clear in the expectations and the communication that you're having. Again, also modeling what you mandate. So if you're if you're doing if you.

Josh Troche: mentioned that before.

Chrissy Myers: Yeah a couple times I want to keep doing it. Model what you mandate people. If not you need to call clarity because we're going to have to tell you.

Josh Troche: We're we're we're going to have to have that sweaty ten minute conversation. No, I yes, I totally get that with this. Do they expect a perfect leader or do they expect a committed leader?

Chrissy Myers: Oh, I like this. So I would say that perfection isn't the goal, but predictability is.

Josh Troche: Did that hurt? You're the did.

Chrissy Myers: That my recovering perfectionist brain.

Josh Troche: Does that hurt 12 year old Chrissy say.

Chrissy Myers: Perfection isn't the goal. It's being predictable. So your team doesn't need you to be flawless. As much as I always want to be, I mean, they need a person who shows up. They need you to own your mistakes, and they need you to keep moving forward and developing yourself so that you can also develop a damn. Let me develop yourself so you can develop them.

Josh Troche: Yes, 100%. Everyone should be growing. If you're not me, you're probably someone else is. And you may not be shrinking but someone's going to pass you. Yeah. Be moving forward. Yeah. It's funny to me because like, this is you've talked from the standpoint of documenting things. Yes. And this to me, it's if you document the process, then it becomes very easy to document the result. Yeah. It's funny because this is like I document the process and you document the result. Yes.

Chrissy Myers: Well, it is because, you know, fairness is really felt when, when everyone plays by the same rules. And when you have documentation, you have documented processes. It takes favoritism off the table.

Josh Troche: Sure does.

Chrissy Myers: And then they say, how do we do things well in here? What do we do? This is how we do them. This is what happens.

Josh Troche: And part of that comes from that consistency. Yes. There's you shouldn't there's like you need to you need to find ways to grow. But in the same sense, when it comes to consistency, like the example that I always use is I believe I'm going on 12 years now. I have had eggs basically every day for breakfast.

Chrissy Myers: Okay.

Josh Troche: People know what to expect to smell in my house in the morning. Fair. But it's that consistency, is there? Yes. There are certain things where you just have to be like, we want to grow, but there are certain things where you just have to be rock solid, consistent, and it's how you treat people, the fairness, those types of things. And what helps you with that documentation.

Chrissy Myers: is you say documentation is dignity. It is. Yeah. Because when employees know there's a clear, shared way to succeed, it shows that leadership respects everyone's time, energy and attention. All of their contributions.

Josh Troche: How often you do like one on one meetings with people that are like, intentionally like, not like, hey, we've got a project coming up. It's like an intentional, like one on one meeting or you're like, hey, let's talk about where you're at. Let's talk about where I'm at. Let's talk about let's talk about your our relationship.

Chrissy Myers: So we do we do check ins weekly, but we do a quarterly conversation in anyone that has direct leadership in their direct leadership line. You are responsibility. You are in clarity for having a quarterly conversation with your direct reports. It is not a like this is our meeting. We're going in, we're having a meal or we're having coffee, or for our virtual team members, it's it's more of a casual tour. How can I help? What's going on? Tell me. Tell me things that that I can do to support you, whether it's in office or out of office. That's the other part. Like we've got some team members are having some pretty amazing life events coming up and it's like, hey, are you ready? Let's go. Yeah.

Josh Troche: So it's so it's not in a it's not in a dimly lit room where. No, the spotlight on.

Chrissy Myers: No, it is not. Those are called interrogations. We don't do that.

Josh Troche: Different.

Chrissy Myers: Career path.

Josh Troche: It's funny. We have weekly meetings also where it's the end. I mean, it's funny. It's in some ways I find it a little bit funny because it starts the same way as the podcast. There's no hook. I'm not, I don't.

Chrissy Myers: But there's banter.

Josh Troche: There's banter at the beginning.

Chrissy Myers: Yeah, there has to be.

Josh Troche: How's things going? It this is a relaxed conversation. I want this to be a conversation. Yeah. Not a it's not a, like you said, interrogation.

Chrissy Myers: No, it's rapport building. And you go with an agenda because sometimes your of if you're not good at modeling the conversation, then go with the agenda of the questions that you need to ask.

Josh Troche: For a good question to ask people, I, I love to start with and I do this in networking meetings a lot. What's something you're excited about this week?

Chrissy Myers: Oh, I like that.

Josh Troche: Because it's not. How are you? Because people are going to give you a bullshit answer to that. Yeah. If you say, what's something you're excited about this week, you're going to ask about something that they genuinely care about. And that is the right way to kick that off. And that is the right way to make them feel seen, heard and connected with you rather than just, what do you want? Yeah.

Chrissy Myers: Well, I would say too, I mean, if you want to keep your culture healthy, you don't outsource your feedback and your annual reviews.

Josh Troche: You how you.

Chrissy Myers: do them yourself.

Josh Troche: Yes.

Chrissy Myers: Or the people that are direct reporting to whoever is in your management team is doing them yourself. You don't just send out the survey here. We're going to SurveyMonkey. We're going to Tiny Pulse. So we're going to do like those. They have a place and a purpose, but they are not there. I mean, they're not there for one on ones because they've structured one on ones. They create rhythm, they create loyalty, they create safety. It being able to communicate. And it gives you accountability to in both directions.

Josh Troche: Yes, yes, because you need that. You do this. This is what so many people realize is we've all heard the saying shit rolls downhill. Yes. And it doesn't.

Chrissy Myers: Like rockets to the.

Josh Troche: top, right, right, right. There is a cannon. There's a poo cannon at the bottom of the hill. And although you have the elevated positions.

Chrissy Myers: You're getting hit in the back of the head by. Yes.

Josh Troche: Right, right. Yeah. Because they're attacking from the rear. They're never from the front. It it's what's funny about it is, is we've talked about like some of these expectations. And really the conversation is centered around making people feel seen. Heard, making them feel like they have a future, making them feel like they're not just do that. Like they're not just a number. They're not just someone that comes in, punches in, does the thing and then gets the hell out of there.

Chrissy Myers: No employees want to be seen.

Josh Troche: Yes, they do, and for the right reasons. Not just when they screw up. Yeah. What happens? Like, what do you see when like, people don't meet these expectations?

Chrissy Myers: Besides the fact that turnover is expensive.

Josh Troche: Yes it is.

Chrissy Myers: So I would say that when leaders don't meet expectations, people don't always leave, but they do disconnect. And you know we talk about quiet quitting I feel like people don't quit so quietly. But it's lost momentum. It's lost questions. It's lost energy around or intensity around new ideas. So I feel like that can really mean cost of failing to meet expectations can really be expensive, especially when you're unclear. I think a lot of times unclear expectations can even create resentment.

Josh Troche: That's a huge one. I worked someplace where they treated everyone terribly. You could walk into their office for a meeting. This is the classic one that we used, AOL Instant Messenger. This tells you how long ago this was, to communicate in the office. This is obviously pre slack. And they would send you a message. Come into my office two hours now, come in my office, and I'd be like, what are we talking about? And I'm like, just get in here.

Chrissy Myers: It could be great or it could be terrible.

Josh Troche: And it was always terrible. Oh, no. So you'd walk into their office and they'd be like, what was last week's numbers? I don't know. I mean, I think they were good. I mean, I glanced at them real quick, but I haven't gotten there. Well, why not? And you're like, well, yeah. Had you told me what we were going to talk about. So once again, it was unclear expectations.

Chrissy Myers: I mean, you just prepare, right?

Josh Troche: How am I supposed to do this? How am I supposed to? I mean, once again, the randomness of the things they said that was that was a horrible work environment and what it turned me into. I was in charge of operations for the entire call center. So I'm kind of like, okay, is everyone doing the things that it it's just enough so I'm not going to get yelled at? Sure. Okay. And I still got yelled at. But it was just like, whatever I got to do to get by, whatever I can do to get a check. And, I mean, I was partially commissioned and I was still like, I just want to get my check and get the hell out of here. And that is that cost of the trust and not having the, like, not treating people the way they they the way they deserve to be treated on stuff like that. It was huge. I know I costed them hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Chrissy Myers: Yeah. Because ambivalence doesn't I mean, yeah.

Josh Troche: I, I'm, I'm okay with it because the way they treated me and.

Chrissy Myers: I'm sure that most of the people in the organization were probably okay with, with half the performance that they needed to have because that's they're, they're falling to the level of their training. And you didn't give expectations. And when you treat people like dirt, they don't they act like dirt.

Josh Troche: What's interesting about that is this place in another place that once again, horrible management, they have they rest their laurels on like we've got a number of employees that have 30 years with us or 20 years with us.

Chrissy Myers: Just because people like being hostages doesn't mean they're going to team members.

Josh Troche: That's exactly it. And I'm like, you've got three people out of 100 that have been there longer than ten years. Everyone else has been there less than two. Yeah, but they focus on those three because they're like, look, we're a great place to work because these people have been here forever. And what I'm going to refer to is our last episode. They just fear the unknown so much that they're like, oh, this is this is fine.

Chrissy Myers: Well, and when we talk about numbers with with clarity and going into organizations, we'll say like, what's your turnover rate? They're like, well, we have some people that have been here for 30 years and we're like, okay, that's great. How many people do you hire a year? Ten. How many people do you have on your staff? 15 okay.

Josh Troche: There's a.

Chrissy Myers: Problem. There's a problem. It's possible that your 30, your employee is the problem. It's also possible that you don't realize how bad your turnover and your culture is because you're just thinking, well, I've got three people that have been with me since I started, and these other people are just here every two years. It's never here, but we just churn through them. That's what. That's what the economy is like. That's what most people are like now. Most people don't want to change jobs. They don't. There are certain things you're not supposed to do have more than one thing in a year. Move, change jobs, get married, have a kid. People don't want to do those things. Nope. Repeated.

Josh Troche: Like stressful. It is very stressful. Actionable steps because we always like to talk about those. This this first one. It's got your word in it. So I'm gonna leave that to you. So let's.

Chrissy Myers: Audit your clarity.

Josh Troche: Okay? Just a smile you get every time you say that word.

Chrissy Myers: Well, it's. Can everybody. Can you say the purpose statement? Can you can you explain as an employee what you do? I mean, why you do it? That's it. I mean, what's the number one goal? I mean, okay, I love that.

Josh Troche: Do your employees feel that.

Chrissy Myers: Yeah. Do they feel.

Josh Troche: it? Yep. What about you? Follow up. Use an instant list for all tasks like commitments. And as a leader, you are held to a higher standard, no matter what. It has to be done.

Chrissy Myers: Yeah, I would say the next one is defining the next step. People need to know where you're going, whether it's the next six months to to 12 months, you really need to give them like what is the next available growth step? Where are we.

Josh Troche: going to me, lead your own check in. One on ones. Start reviewing your side of it. Don't just go to your employee and be like, hey, here's the things that you've been doing well, and here's the things that you've been doing poorly. Get out of my office.

Chrissy Myers: Oh, no.

Josh Troche: No no no no, it needs to be. Here's the things that you're doing well here. The things that we need to improve on. Then it's how can I help? Yes. Additionally, what else do you need for me? What can I improve on? This should be a two way street. Yes. If the employee says, hey, stop farting in my cubicle. Yeah, I had to bring that back and do it. Sorry.

Chrissy Myers: Did well. And I would say, what goes with leading your own check in is asking for the feedback. So asking your employees, you know, what's the thing that I could do better? What's the thing that I'm doing as a leader that makes your job harder?

Josh Troche: Yeah.

Chrissy Myers: Where where am I falling for?

Josh Troche: Wonderful. I know I've heard.

Chrissy Myers: I'm perfect, but.

Josh Troche: I don't ever make it difficult for other people. I have no idea what you're talking about. What's the single biggest sign a leader is failing to meet the expectation for consistency towards their employees?

Chrissy Myers: That's when your team really starts to. To double check everything you say.

Josh Troche: Oh that.

Chrissy Myers: hurts. Yeah. So if they feel they need a backup plan, every time you say something or you make a commitment, that's a sign that you're not consistent.

Josh Troche: Yeah yeah. Yeah. That yeah. They should just know. They should feel it's going to be done. Yeah.

Chrissy Myers: So what's the fastest way to formalize a path to growth for an employee without building a huge HR department?

Josh Troche: Shout out to clarity HR. You can call them in to help.

Chrissy Myers: Thank you.

Josh Troche: In size for for me it very much. It's a case of just, like outlining things. Yeah. Here's a short little training program. This doesn't need to be this big, long, formal document that everyone's going to sign. Just say, here's what I'd like. Here's what I'd like to help you with in 60 days. Here's what I'd like to help you with in 90, 120 days. And let's see where we're at.

Chrissy Myers: Yeah. Have a meeting. Yeah. Summarize it in an email. Hey, we had this conversation because that's documentation.

Josh Troche: Yep. It's simple. Yeah. You don't need to. I mean you can call clarity.

Chrissy Myers: You can. But we're at we're going to tell you the same thing. So it can just be an email.

Josh Troche: Can that meeting could have been an email. Yes probably. Would it. A lot cheaper than email too. Yeah. To all of our listeners, be a leader. Step up. Yeah. Lead your team. Like, realize they have expectations for you, and it's it's not an it's not unrealistic at what they're expecting.

Chrissy Myers: It's not it's really simple.

Josh Troche: It really is that they expect you to be a decent human and be a decent leader. Yeah. And it doesn't take these massive skills to do this.

Chrissy Myers: No. Just be a learner.

Josh Troche: Be a learner, be consistent, be fair, and do what you say you're going to do. If you want to find more on this and past episodes, because we have some good we have some good episodes. We do. They're all good episodes. Really. Business Fix podcast.com. Follow us on all of the social medias at the Business Fix. Review subscription. Please, please, please toss those out there. Would love love to hear from you on stuff like that. Next week we will be discussing what you use specifically. Yes, you specifically should expect of your employees. We talked about what they should expect from you now what you should expect from them. Do me a favor. Take care of yourself. If you can take care of someone else too, we will see you very, very soon.