Culture Killers: The 3 Silent Toxins Destroying Your Business

Culture doesn’t collapse overnight. It erodes quietly.

In this episode of The Business Fix, Chrissy and Josh break down the three most dangerous culture killers that silently destroy businesses from the inside out — and what leaders must do to stop them before turnover, disengagement, and brand damage take over.

If you're a small business owner, CEO, executive, or manager, this episode will challenge how you think about performance, leadership, accountability, and operational alignment.

The 3 Culture Killers We Break Down:

1️⃣ The Brilliant Jerk
Your highest producer… and your most expensive employee.
They hit numbers. They close deals. And they quietly push your best people out the door. Learn how to handle high performers who erode trust and why “hope” is not a leadership strategy.

2️⃣ Broken Psychological Safety
When teams are afraid to speak up, innovation dies.
We explain why insecure leadership creates silent teams and how psychological safety fuels performance, not weakness.

3️⃣ Badly Behaved Values
Your core values aren’t what you print. They’re what you tolerate.
If leadership breaks the rules, culture breaks trust. Period.

We also cover practical, actionable solutions:

• Stay Interviews (early warning systems vs. exit autopsies)
• Culture Audits that actually measure what matters
• Behavioral Metrics that reward “how,” not just “what”
• Transparent project tracking and operational accountability
• The “Clear Is Kind” task protocol (Who, What, When)

We Also Discuss:

• Remote & Hybrid Culture: Can connection exist over Zoom?
• Gossip as a Leadership Metric (the rumor mill is a scoreboard)
• Culture Fit vs. Culture Add (comfort vs. competitiveness)
• Unlimited PTO: Culture builder or culture killer?
• The #1 red flag in a job interview

If you’ve ever said:

• “That’s just how they are.”
• “We’ll deal with that behavior later.”
• “I don’t want to lose the revenue.”
• “Our culture is fine.”

This e

If you're looking to get help with your culture, or to help out an entire group, reach out to Josh and Chrissy today!  We would love to see how we can help you, your business, or your event. Contact us!

ClarityHR is your fractional HR team, giving you real people, real support, and real solutions. Whether it’s compliance headaches, hiring struggles, or just needing someone to take the people stuff off your plate — we’ve got your back. So if you’re ready to stop using duct-tape and hope as your HR strategy and finally get some peace of mind, head over to ClarityHR.com

If you're looking to start your own podcast or maybe you just want to add the next level of professionalism to your podcast and brand, you should be working with the producers behind The Business Fix at Pedal Stomper Productions. Click the link to learn more about how you can get your podcast to the next level. https://www.pedalstomperproductions.com

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Transcript

0:30

Let's talk about culture killers. Woo hoo! Let's go! You're amped for this one. Ready? Wow! Wow! This is fun. This is. This is why I'm in business. No, I get it. These type of people. Like. Yes. Right. I think that's our hook, I think. Stay tuned. She's the CEO. He's the marketing and operations guy. If it's broken, you need the business fix. This is the stuff. I mean, like, yeah, HR stuff. Yay! But the culture part. This is the stuff that really makes a difference in an organization. It does culture like it. It's so funny. And I've been in businesses with terrible cultures. And you see the owner typically like literally sitting in their sleigh, like cracking the whip on people like, hey, pull, pull, pull. Or they're sleeping and not caring. And everybody else is like, what's going on? What are we supposed to do? Yeah. Whereas when there's the good culture, you see, like everyone's just in it together. Yes. And the thing that I notice about this is in that, that culture that I was talking about before, where the, the guy's cracking the whip on everyone and just being a jerk and everything. I've worked in a number of those. Mhm. Everyone's tired. Yeah. And it's not always all that productive. No. But when you see a good culture you can see people that are just cranking stuff out and they're like, hey how's it going today? And you're like, oh. So either first off there's pumping some sort of like weird gas into the, the facility that is keeping them far too happy. Um, it could be the drugs. Um, like, is there a Xanax machine as soon as you walk in the door? Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe they've just turned their culture around and they know what it's like because it used to be bad, and now it's awesome. Yeah. And it's so. It's so funny when you see people that have been in bad cultures come to companies that have good cultures, you're like, oh, you walk through the door and it's funny. It's like an abused spouse that's finally in a good relationship. Why are you all smiling? Right. You're a little bit suspicious, like, huh? And then all of a sudden you're like, oh yeah, there's there's people here. There's got to be a story where you've walked into a business. What's one thing that you notice right off the bat where you're like, good or bad, if people will make eye contact with you when you first walk in? That's a pretty easy sign, because their eye contact will say a lot. It could be like, oh, shoot. Or it could be like, hey. So usually the haze, like, you can see honest engagement or if it's silent, you go into an organization and it you don't hear anything that is scary. Because for me, healthy organizations, you hear laughter, you hear conversation, you hear, I mean, not just banter, but just like there's a hum when a culture is healthy. There is also a silence when it is not. I walked into the door. Remember the job that I told you about, where they heard the person screaming at me and walked out of the room? Yes. Um, I walked into that company and, uh, I should have known it was quiet, dead silent. All the doors were closed, and it was built kind of like all the offices were on the outside and on the main floor. There was like this mezzanine level, like a bullpen. Um, in that mezzanine level, though, there was a pool table. There was a ping pong, On a ping pong table. There was a pinball machine, and none of them looked like they had been touched in decades. Oh, and I'm like, no one wants to be with other people. Nope. This is like. This is like the pizza thing. Yeah. We will not commune. No, like like they bought the pool table because it looks cool. Because it looks cool. And they're like, people are gonna think this is a great culture. Yeah. It's not a it's not a pool table. It's not a ping pong table. It's not, it's not. Yeah. Um, and that is that HR fluff that we will, we will probably address in this. Sure. Uh, what? I know you've seen this all the time. Where? Like what? We have to limit it to three. Fine. That's fine. I had twelve, that's fine. Chrissy was hoping that this was a two hour long episode. Thirty pages of notes, you're like, no, you will not write. What are the big three? Three, okay, three culture killers that you see most often and how do they start to take root? Because we I mean, you and I, we've been around enough. We see where this is starting to take a grip. Yeah. So what I'm going to tell you is I've got I've got three that I will do fine. Um, and I want to start by owning it, that I have allowed all three of these things at different points in my career within my organization. So I'm happy about culture because we've survived some of these things. Right. And people had helmets. People had helmets. And I would say it's happened to because not because I didn't care about culture, but because I cared about people performance or piece in the wrong order. Yep. And so culture killers don't usually walk in wearing that villain cape. Rarely do they walk in wearing the villain cape. They enter quietly through avoidance, fear, and misplaced loyalty. So Honestly, a lot of it connects back to what we talked about last week around wanting to be a nice leader. So nice leadership. When unchecked, it creates space for the culture killers to grow. Yes they do. And there are three B's this time. Bees. Bees. Bees. Are we going like is it going to be A's next week? I don't know. It might be I don't know. But bee so B1 is the brilliant jerk B1 you sank my battleship I did, I did. It's the brilliant jerk. So this is the fastest culture killer I know is hands down the brilliant jerk. It's the high performer who delivers results but leaves damage everywhere else. They hit numbers, they close deals. They are technically excellent. You probably really like them in your business because they make the numbers look good and they are emotionally expensive, and they do well, and leaders protect them because they're afraid of the revenue hit they're going to take. If they deal with this and have have they have a sweaty ten minute conversation and the brilliant jerk doesn't want to be there anymore. So they tell themselves, you know, we'll deal with the behavior later or this is the one that I did. This is just who they are. I am sorry that they hurt your feelings. This is just who they are. That was wrong. I. I did that wrong. I've done that. I did it wrong. I don't do it wrong anymore. But I did it wrong. And what? What I didn't see as a leader for a long time was the hidden cost. There was disengagement. There was quiet quitting, there was resentment. And then eventually there's turnover. Or that person is so belligerent and being a brilliant jerk that you navigate and create your organization around them at the cost of everything else that you're trying to do, we'll change the process because this person can't follow it. I don't do that anymore. No, I used to do that. So I mean, at clarity, we say this a lot is that you don't have a people problem. You have a protection problem because you're not protecting the right things. The brilliant jerk can outproduce five people and they can quietly push at least ten out the door. Yeah, and the worst part is, the people who leave are usually your steady, values aligned performers. It's rarely a problem person that exits because of a brilliant jerk. It's not. It's not the people that you want to leave. No, it's not that. You don't want to leave. No. So what do you do with the brilliant jerk? There are three things. The first is feedback. Because you can assume a blind spot first. Sometimes brilliant jerks don't realize they're being jerks. Sure, sometimes it's not always. The brilliant jerk has that blind spot. No one has ever been direct with them. They've never been rewarded for results and ignored for behavior. So you've got to be able to talk to them because they've gotten that reward for all of the things that they do, right. They have never been told that they're doing something or they can improve upon something. And I have had someone in my organization who was a brilliant jerk, who turned into a rock star performer when that feedback was given to them. I've also had brilliant jerks that I've had to exit. It's just it is part of the nature. And this is really where radical directness matters. You name the impact, not the intent, which means that you know your results are strong and your behavior is eroding trust. So you've got to be able to have that conversation, that clarity alone for that person by saying, you know, I really appreciate the work that you do. You are a valuable member of the team and how you contribute, but you are leaving a trail of bodies in your wake, and we're not going to tolerate that anymore. The way that you're arguing with people to get work done, to be supportive of you, to do your job, is not working in the organization. You are not living our core value of teamwork, and you are not living our core value of excellence. And if they're like middle finger to your teamwork, we're like, okay, middle finger to you. It's so funny, the I, I know that there is some trauma behind this for you. Trauma because because I did it wrong when I was about to say the confidence at which you're saying this right now Is like. And the excitement. I'm like, she is like, I feel like you should be like laying on a couch and I should be taking notes because you are professing this. Either that or you should be on on the stage with spotlights here. Well, and this is a big thing. It is a big thing. And you're not gonna die if you do this. No, everyone feels like that. Yes. So you give them the feedback, okay. After you've given them the feedback, sometimes they need professional development guardrails. So that's number two. So if they're willing to grow you put guardrails in place. You give them clear expectations. You coach them and you create behavioral metrics around things. You. You're not vague. You're not nice in your language. You are clear with these individuals specific behaviors that must change. That's the thing that I think so many people don't do because they're like, hey, you're doing things really well, but I need you to be nicer to Bob. I don't know why I always pick on Bob every episode, but it's what is nicer to Bob mean, exactly. You have to define it. You have to define it. And sometimes the response that you're going to get from somebody when you're like, you need to be nicer to Bob is you're brilliant. Jerks can go, well, Bob's an idiot. You're like, no, Bob is a team member, and we are going to be working together. And Bob is the person that puts all of your presentations together. So if you stop, if you were nicer to Bob, I bet you wouldn't have mistakes on your presentations. Just saying. So you have that conversation, you coach them. Bob is tossing grenades. Bob's tossing grenades back. Bob is being subversive. And you know what? Can you blame Bob? No, no you cannot. So the third thing that you do, after you've dealt with feedback, you've given professional development and guardrails, is you document and decide. And this is really the hard part, because if the behavior doesn't change, documentation is going to lead to a decision. And that decision is whether or not you're keeping that person or you're exiting that person. And, you know, culture dies when leaders keep hoping someone's going to wake up one day and care. They're just gonna wake up one day and they're gonna be a different person. They're going to have their Scrooge moment. No they're not. This is not a Christmas Carol, okay? Hope is months ago. Hope is not a strategy. Hope is not a. You've said that so many times. And when we're talking about marketing, that hope is not a strategy. Pretty is not a strategy. At some point, protecting the team matters more than protecting the producer. And I love how you put the document piece to this, because if you don't document to it, you're just going to keep putting that off. Yes, you're going to be like, okay, three times and this is over. Yeah. You're going to be like, well, I talked to him a couple of times. I don't know if it was one. It might have been two and three quarters, I don't know. You got it. You've got to keep track. All right. So second be after the brilliant jerk is broken. Safety really speaks to psychological safety. This one's quieter, but I think it can really be sometimes more dangerous. So this is when people are afraid to speak up, to ask questions, to admit mistakes. Innovation stops not because the team isn't smart, but because the team's scared. And so here's what I want leaders to hear about psychological safety. It isn't about being soft and squishy and making sure everybody's feelings feel good. It's about being strong enough to allow disagreement without punishment. Let me say it again. It's about being strong enough to allow disagreement without punishment. It's allowing dialogue. You have to be willing to let people tell you as the business leader, the CEO, the executive when you're wrong. You have to be able to tell them. You need to be able to let them tell you when you're wrong, and then you have to be able to tell them when they're wrong or when something isn't working. It takes confidence to do that. And insecure leadership breeds silent teams. Which is why I said, when you walk in what's what's one of the leading things of of a bad culture is silence. Yes. Disengagement. I have watched incredibly talented teams slowly shut down because every mistake was met with blame instead of curiosity. In several organizations that we we deal with and some some former clients, that happened a lot more former clients than they are current because they didn't listen. Um, the other thing that I think can also be around broken safety, it can be worse, is that the leader's own fear of failure made feedback feel dangerous. Yep. I am afraid to speak up because I don't want to get yelled at or well, you just didn't do it right. Or well, maybe you weren't a good explainer of the things. So when leaders are insecure, teams get quiet one hundred percent and quiet teams don't innovate. They comply. They're just phoning it in. And fear doesn't create excellence. It really creates silence. Right. Yeah. Lay low. Rare rabbit. Exactly, exactly. So this that's I think like it's it's a very simple one to talk about. It's hard as a leader to work on building that psychological safety. If you don't like to take feedback, then I would tell you go do some professional development around how to take feedback. The simplest thing that I have found on that is when something is messed up, own it. Yes, if it's the and if it's your team, it's your responsibility. I'm a part of this. Yes. If you make sure that you're included in the group that messed it up, that goes a long way. Yes. Another be. We do not blame. So don't blame. Wow. I know more bees. That's another bee. So that's that's like two a anyway, now be number three because you always said I could have three. Badly behaved values is number three. And this one's subtle and deadly values that live on posters in your office but die in practice. You know, crappy wall art. Shitty wall art. Yes, I have, I have used this so many times. I love crappy wall art. You know, if because it's a great example, if leadership doesn't model what we mandate and we I think we've said that in probably thirty of our podcasts, around thirty two, forty three, forty three model what you mandate if because the culture notices immediately, the values aren't what you say, they are what you tolerate. Yep. So some examples for leaders to recognize instantly cutting corners just this once. Playing favorites, ignoring bad behavior from top performers, allowing the brilliant jerk to wreak havoc in your organization. Holding others accountable but exempting yourself. You know that whole like, I expect everybody to be here at eight o'clock every morning, shows up at ten thirty with their Starbucks? No. Or I refuse to have relationships in the workplace, married to the owner. Like, you know, no, we don't do that. When the CEO breaks the rules, the culture learns fast that the values are optional. And once values become optional, trust erodes. Leadership breaks the rules. Culture breaks trust. So I would say there are a couple of HR fixes. You're going to talk more probably about this in operations, but I would say how you can catch it before it's terminal. Um, where, you know, HR stops being paperwork starts being protection, stay interviews. You talk about how exit interviews are autopsies stay interviews are early warning systems. Talk to the people who are staying in your organization. What's working? What's frustrating you? What would make this better? It doesn't have to be a formalized process. It can just be a check in. Don't act like office space and pretend like you care. You actually have to sit down and care with these people. So don't just do a drive by drive. Everything okay? No, don't do that. Don't set them up for a meeting with the bobs. No, don't do it. So stay. Interviews are important. Culture audits. Because culture can be measured, but only if you're brave enough to look at it. And it's really having an honest conversation. Yes. Looking for patterns. Why is turnover happening? You know, everybody that works with Doris doesn't stay long. Okay, well, is Doris your brilliant jerk? Is Doris, you know, she a creepy cat lady who keeps, like, knitting sweaters for them. And they think it's weird, so they don't want to talk to her, and then they leave. Like, what is the reason? There's got to be a reason. Who isn't speaking up where leaders consistently surprise those? Are there not coincidences? There signals. Yes. So pulling that data together and then behavioral metrics, remembering yourself that finally behavior has to matter as much as output. How are people behaving if you only reward the what and ignore the how culture killers are going to thrive when behaviors measured, coached, and reinforced, then culture stabilizes the I. I like the culture audit. Yeah. Um, there's something that I look at when we've got a number of remote workers. We've got a number of local workers. Same one way that I alter that I audit our culture is I look at how people show up in meetings. Mhm. Oh it's telling. That is the number one tell. Yes. If they're. Hi. Good morning. Um, okay. We we we may be here. Yeah. If the camera's not on and they're like, hey, they're phoning that in. Yes. You're kind of like, um. This doesn't seem to be going well. Yes. Yeah. Huge, super, super simple way to audit this. And timeliness, especially on virtual meetings. If they show up ten minutes late, it's like, oh, I'm sorry, I was distracted with something else. Really? No, no, I just didn't want to be here. I didn't want to be here. It's pretty obvious. So I just didn't want to be here. No, I just want to be here. Don't, don't don't say you are happy to be here because you're not. So, Josh, most culture killers don't need dramatic intervention. They really just need earlier attention. Yes. Yeah. So, you know, systems don't replace leadership, but they support it. And when HR and operations work together. You know, culture stops being fragile. Imagine that. Imagine. So how do these culture killers manifest in the day to day workflow and the way a brand is perceived by the public? Ooh, I'm excited for this. Yeah. So to me, there's there's like in the day to day workflow. It is that not my job mentality versus flexible support. Yeah. Um everyone has like if you're doing like everything correctly, everyone has their specific tasks. Everyone has ownership of that in the same sense. If they should have that ability to cross a little bit if needed. Yeah. So and the way I put this is kind of structure with fluidity. So like my editor and social media manager they do some similar things. In fact they've got a couple of things where one does it for one client, one does it for another client. There's crossover there. In the same sense though, there is clear responsibilities for those things, so they know that if it's assigned to like if it's assigned to someone else, they know it's going to get done and they know they don't have to do it. Yeah, but they can. Oh, right. That's so nice. They have that ability in the same sense if like let's say we're talking about clips that we put out on social media for those clips. If, if like, hey, we're noticing that shorter ones are getting more views. Well great. That's feedback that should be able to be given. Yeah without a hesitation on that. So once again, just because the clips aren't your job doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to give feedback on them. But it's got to be good, useful, honest feedback in a respectful way. The if you are stepping out of your lane to help someone else. Yeah, I always tell people it has to be communicated first. Yes. Don't just reach over and grab the task and be like, oh, I'll take this off your desk for them. No no no no no no. You have to say hey, love to help you out. Can I take care of this for you? World of difference in how that happens. Recipe for disaster. If you don't communicate correct. Because that's when it turns into it wasn't my job or when things go sideways. Well, so and so said they were so and so just grabbed it. And that person's like, well, I didn't grab it. I grabbed this, which was different or adjacent or whatever. Once again, it's got to be communicated. And in that make sure it's documented. Yes. Um it doesn't you don't need to have a contract. This does not need to be ten or fifteen pages signed, but make sure exactly what's going on for us, like in asana, or if it's in Google Tasks, we can see who it's assigned to. That, to me is enough documentation. If there's an email or a chat like in Google Chat. A message saying, hey, I'm going to take this from you. Do you see that? Yes. Great. I'm good with that amount of documentation. Yeah, but there can't just be. Hey, I'm thinking I'm going to do this, and I'm pretty sure they'll know this by telepathy. No, you can't do that. And especially when you're in larger teams and you're taking things off of people's plates, then you sometimes you have that one person who's doing eighty percent of the work and they had no idea. And this other person's getting credit for doing all the work, but they're really only doing twenty percent of the work. So how it's really important that you communicate not just in dealing with the blame game, but also dealing with, you know, worst workflow actually going, do we need to hire another person, correct? Or just do we need to spread the work more evenly? Correct. So the other thing that I like to see, or that I don't like to see is and this is one of those clues that your culture has some issues. Is the meeting after the meeting. It's one of my favorites. You know, when a bunch of people walk out of the room, people are gonna talk. And it's great because in so many cases. Hey, how was your weekend? How was your. How's the Mrs.. How's the cat? How's the how was your motorcycle ride? How's your trip planning going? That when you hear stuff like that, you're like, man, I got a great culture. Yep. If you hear, can you believe what happened in that meeting? What is the point? Why are we doing it right? When? When you hear the whispers. That is when the hallway is the bathroom. The lunchroom. Correct. That is when you know you have an issue. Because whether it's you saying something or someone else saying something, there is a lack of buy in and you have to look, is this a leadership problem or a people problem? Yeah, I will admit I've been on both ends of this. Yeah. There has been times where I'm like, oh, they think they're going to do it this way. Oh yeah, they are. Early in my career, I was the brilliant jerk. Yes. Yeah, one hundred percent. I'm like, I am going to do it this way. Uh, the the the problem is, is the quickest way as a leader to create that sabotage the to create the saboteur that's going to be carrying that out is to just be like, I'm right. Do it my way. You have to listen to people. Yeah. You're modeling really great behavior when you're like, I'm right doing my way. Correct. Um, and it's the if you are unwilling to listen to people, it's just it's. And the problem that I have with this is I work for someone where I literally showed them the numbers, and it was two different ad campaigns. And I said we could do the ad campaign that you like, or we can do the one that I like. We're going to get six times the, the the reach with this. And at the end of the month, each month we can take four hundred dollars out into the parking lot, soak it in diesel fuel and light it on fire. And we'll still be saving money. And without hesitation he goes, do my thing. Okay. No. Is there a particular reason why you want to do this? He goes. He goes. Just do it. Okay. If you want to create sabotage in your own company, that is the way to do it. Oh, absolutely. Don't trust the people that you hired who are probably smarter and more skilled at the things that you don't want to do, and then tell them how to do their job. No, I mean, the problem that I have had with this in so many cases is it is a difference between having a leader that is open and receptive. None of like it's so funny. Nika, the editor for me when we started. She's probably on par with where I was at. She's far ahead of what I'm doing editing wise now. Yes. And you know what? I'm wonderful with that now. Does she think I'm an idiot? No, no, not at all. We have different skills and different. I'm doing other things areas now. And the problem is, is so many owners and so many leaders approach things without being able to display a knowledge or be a willingness to learn that they just have this buffoon, like, look about them. Um, it's the I'm always right, no matter what thing that once again, people will not follow, you know, um, they're going to undermine you. They're going to do whatever they want to. I would expect a mutiny. If you're always gonna say I'm right, do the thing. Oh, yeah. And it's it's funny. You do and you do. I don't know why people keep leaving. I don't either. And you would do just enough to cover up your tracks to be like, I'm going to do this this way anyways. Yeah. And I mean, every single time, or I don't trust them. So I'm just going to micromanage. I mean, there's so many ways that you can culture kill the micromanagement. There was huge because and once again, no understanding of what I actually did know, but would want to report of everything. And I'm like, okay, I'm just going to write a bunch of bullshit on here and be like, hey, good luck with this. Yeah, because they don't understand it. Not at all. But I scribbled on a piece of paper, so that was good. Yeah. Um, from the marketing side, yeah. There is one thing that I see so many times there is a cognitive dissonance between the brand and people's perception of the brand. Yeah. Um, it the way that I look at it like success is a shared thing. You hear me say this ad nauseam. It's it's our core value. It's it's just there. If a client wants to do an expensive, highly profitable thing that isn't a fit for their industry or goals, yes, we're going to have that honest conversation with them. Yeah, I just can't. And when you do that, you've shown that like what our culture is, what we're saying it actually is. Yes. Uh, true marketing integrity means that you're potentially turning down a sale to ensure that our core values are sticking through. I don't want to work on projects that don't fit within our core values. Yeah, it's it's tough. The thing that I like that I find so funny with this is when you walk into a bank. Yes. Every bank talks about we're customer centric. We're and I mean whole. And we care about people. And you look at every single one of those tellers and, you know, every single one of them is considering going home and taking a bath with a toaster that night. And they they are told to read these mindless scripts. They all look trapped. Yes, they all look trapped. They all I mean, they all have the same look on their face of a puppy dog in a shelter. Like please save me. Yes. Please buy this product so I can hit this quota. So they will leave me alone for another five days? Yes, one hundred percent. And I see it all like these banks market great service, but when you walk in it's scripted greetings, it's fake smiles and you don't get a genuine great service or human interaction. That's a commodity one hundred percent. Treat me like a human. I always love it when I hand them my ID and they say, oh, it's good to see you, mister. You don't know my name. That's okay. Hi. Hi. Thanks for coming in today. You don't know me from Adam. Just say hi. And thanks for coming in today. And what can I do for you and genuinely feel like. Give me some. I don't you don't need to be excited to help me, but at least be like, hey, I'm here to help you. I've got to be here for another four or five hours. So let's make the best of this. Yes. Instead of, hey, I have to read this script or I'm going to get fired. No, this. I mean, marketing says they care, but the operation, the other thing that I like is to is when marketing says they care. But then you call them and you're on hold for forty five minutes. We're customer centric. Great. We're always open. Except when we're closed, right? We're always. We're always open. You're just going to have to stand in line for an hour and a half. Yes. To me, once again, this is that culture killer. It's once again, they're not doing what they're saying. Yeah. And it's it's a huge erosion there. Yes. From that I always say operation operationalize that accountability. You've got to build those systems transparent project tracking. You've got to I mean public wins and losses acknowledge when a team or process fails and acknowledge when it wins. Also, accountability is easier to handle when it's treated as a system failure rather than Bob, you done screwed up. Yes. Um, because more than likely there was something that led to Bob screwing up. Um, the other thing clear is kind. We talk about this, I believe, I believe we've talked about clear as kind of just a couple times. Just a few times. That's probably what we should have named the podcast Clear as Kind podcast. Yes. I mean, standardize how tasks are assigned. The who, the what, the where, the when, what's done. There's zero room for. I didn't know I was supposed to do that, or I didn't know what done meant or I didn't. All of those things, those any wishy washiness in those types of things define, define, define right. Those are the culture killers. They are if I don't know what one plus one is, and I just got to take a stab at it, how am I supposed to show up and think I'm working for something good here? Yeah, no you can't, I'm done. No. Exactly. It. What? Like, what do you think about hybrid stuff now? I, I don't know how you're gonna feel about this because this is going to be interesting. Yeah. How do you, like, do you got to be, like, physically around the people? No. So you think you can have culture via zoom? I think culture isn't about where you work. It's about how deeply and consistently you connect whenever or wherever you work. It's about connection. It's not about proximity. So I think it is a very easy for a lot of I would say like, oh gosh, how do I do this without like hacking off? Everyone know I'll, I'll tell you on this one, okay. I get like I just I just heard this from someone else. Someone was talking about how they have a great culture and they require everyone to be in the office. And I'm like, that's not a great culture. That's hostage. That's hostage. That's exactly it to me. It is making sure that people feel like they know what they're doing. They know why the hell they're doing it, and they feel rewarded for it. Agreed? Agreed. If you do that, it doesn't matter where the hell they are. And as long as they feel like they can pick up the phone or pick up a keyboard and get in touch with you and get a straight and honest answer. Yes. Done. Yes. That's all you need. It's quality of connection and communication that you design, and you have to be intentional in how you design it. Half of our team members work in our office inside Akron, Ohio, and the other half are in other places. And we are connected, all of us together, doing all of the things together. Because, you know, culture can thrive without physical proximity. If leaders are prioritizing psychological safety, intentional ritual rituals and norms that translate into those digital spaces, it's communication, regular check ins, consistent feedback loops, the things that we talk about all the time, whether you are in the same room, in the same office building, or you are across an ocean with someone, it is building those touchpoints. Because when leaders use tools like video intentionally, not just even for updates, but for real dialogue, trust can grow even across distance. And that's it. I feel we are more connected as a team now, just with having people spread out all over the world than we were when we all worked in the same office building at the same time, because we now have the right people in the right seats, and we're maintaining our culture. The two pieces that I want to talk about with that is, first off, is the one that the word that you said that I was like, okay, she said it. I'm good. I don't need to have the heart attack was intentional. It's intentional. You have to be very intentional about creating this environment. The second off, for me, it is the biggest thing with culture is being available and doing what you say you're going to do. Yes, that's what it takes. If if you overwhelm people and don't do what you say you're going to do and do like all these other behaviors, it doesn't matter if you're in person. It doesn't. I mean, you could you could share an office with someone. Doesn't matter. You can have a horrible culture in person. You can have a horrible culture remotely. You can have great cultures both ways, too. As long as the people feel like, hey, I am doing something, that I'm doing something and they feel good about the things that they're doing. That's all you need. Oh, I agree. Uh, this is the other one that I really want to talk to. Gossip? Yes. Yeah. What about gossip? Uh, how do you feel about gossip? Or shall we call it the rumor mill? Oh, gosh. Um, so I would say that gossip isn't the problem. It's a scoreboard that kind of tells you that something isn't clear. One hundred percent. If people are able to catastrophize things because that's what they're going to do, they can. They absolutely can. And I mean, what's going on behind closed doors? They don't feel like leadership is being transparent. They are going to create and manufacture the worst catastrophe known to man. Correct. They are correct. They fill the silence with stories and they're usually not good ones. The fire alarms may not be going off, but they smell smoke. Well, and I think a lot of times leaders think that the antidote is to ban conversation. And that's not the case. It's it's leading with transparency. No one can talk to each other. We're not going to talk about all of these things. I mean, when people understand the why behind decisions, the how of process changes and the where we're going next, there's far less room for the rumor mills to take root. So you just you got to give it daylight. You know what the funny thing is about that? We talked about launching grenades earlier. We did had a job that I had that had a very toxic culture. Um, they told me that it was illegal for me to talk about my salary, because I know I made a lot more than most of the other people there. And when they pissed me off, I posted my salary on the bulletin board. That was not a grenade. More of a bomb. A nuclear bomb in the break room. I may as well have put two middle fingers below that. You did you want to play hardball? Let's. Here we go. Um, some some. This is big deal. Um, and I know we're going to revisit culture in multiple other ways. Oh, gosh. Yeah, in future episodes, but, yeah, uh, to me, the one that I want to talk about for one of the key takeaways is that culture audit. Yeah. Take a look at your high performance. Are they also like do they fit. Are they your culture leaders or are your high performers your reasons to hightail it out of there for the rest of your staff? Yeah. Do they get it? Do they want it? Do they have the capacity for it? Yep. It's really important. I would say the next one is radical transparency. If there is a problem in the business you need to tell the team. Don't let them guess. No, no because they were they will usually guess wrong or they will guess in a really scary direction. They will guess their way out the door. I mean, yeah, no, I, I have a great example of that that just, uh, ended up on, uh, from a friend of mine. Um, the other day, that's like, literally an entire company was just shocked by something that had happened, and I was like, that's going to cripple it for the future. Oh, no. Yep. Uh, what's the last one for you? I would say reward the right behaviors. Yeah. So you stop just rewarding the what? The sales and the outputs, and you really start rewarding the how, the collaboration, the showing of values. Because, you know, it's about how we move forward together. And that's really one of the, the easiest ways to disarm and disable your brilliant jerks is really to just, you know, reward the how. It's really important in how you got there. Thank you for the work that you've done. You've accomplished this. But what I'm really excited about is how you did it. Yeah. To me, it's that the, uh. There's not a journey to happiness. No, happiness is the journey. And if you reward the pieces along that, you're going to get to the destination. Yeah. That's all there is to it. Uh. Unlimited PTO? Yes. Love it or hate it? Um, I would say it's not my favorite thing. I don't like it. I don't either. I don't, I don't. And what I would say, you know, it's unlimited PTO sounds really progressive. It's like we have unlimited PTO. But if you do not give clear expectations and you don't model what taking a break looks like, as a business owner, it often turns into unlimited guilt. So employees don't know what's acceptable so they take less time off, not more time. They don't know how to schedule their time. I think unlimited PTO doesn't create trust. Clear leadership does. And giving guardrails. Guardrails are good for team members. Employees love guardrails. They love to know I can earn this much PTO. This is the expectation I am also a proponent of. You must take a minimum of one week away from this organization every year. And in some organizations, especially if you're dealing with, you know, point of failure within organizations or you're dealing with finances, there's a mandate, especially within, like the banking industry, where they have to take one week completely off because that enables people to see from stem to stern how they do their job. And it also makes sure that there's no corruption or no issues. Yep. Makes sense. Uh. Job interviews? Yeah. What's a red flag you look for? Whether it's. And I guess. Let's do this this way. What's a red flag that you look for when hiring people? Yes. And I'll cover. What's the red flag? That. Because I think I've been on a few more job interviews than you have. Probably. I've had. I've had a few, but it's a little bit different, right? Um, if they have never learned from a failure, they're about to repeat one. Yep. So that's my big one, is how someone talks about accountability, especially when things went wrong if every past job has failed them. Every boss was the problem. They can't name a single lesson that they learned. That is a huge red flag for me. It's the same thing for me on the other side of the table. What's the business struggling with now? If they say no, no, no, no, things are great. Run like hell. Run like hell. The other thing that I always ask too is like what? Like, what are you doing to create the culture in your business? I asked that specifically at this point because it is a like, what are you doing to create the culture? If they can't tell you intentional things or if they tell you what, we've got this great pool table and ping pong table and all this other stuff. Yeah, that those are signs to run, signs to run. And then as you're interviewing your potential clients, you're asking them the key things that you need within your organization to. Because I interview a lot. I don't necessarily get interviewed for jobs, but I do interview a lot of clients and potential clients, and I need to know that they're coachable and open to change, and if they are not able to to exhibit those qualities in our initial couple of conversations. We don't follow up to see if they want to be a client anymore, because we know it's going to be a disaster. We have started doing the same thing on the marketing side. Like we we want to work together. Um, we want this to be collaborative. Um, we're not you're we're not your bitch. No, we're we're going to work together to make your business better. And we've had a couple clients that have said, like, well, we want to do it this way or prospects. And we're like, well, you're going to do it wrong, but well, okay, well we'll see how this works. It's not going to go well. I got a question though for you about social issues. Yeah. All right. So should companies take public stances on social issues or does that kill internal culture if you need to go ahead. But most of the time, if you look deep, there's no reason to um, I really I mean, if look, if you're, if you work, if you're if you're the Democratic Party of America, then you kind of have to you kind of have to beyond that, if your religious institution or you're taking a significant moral or economic stance. Yes, all of those things. Sure. But Goodyear sell tires, sell insurance, claridar do fractionally sharp podcasting. Go to pedal stomper like no, you don't need one hundred percent no. And that's the it's so funny. There's a there's a client that we work with that if you even mention politics. You see him. His face doesn't change at all. His mouth will not open. Exactly. We're very similar. Yeah. It's we have to be. Yeah. Yep. That all being said, we're going to talk next week about and I, I love this one. From an operations standpoint. Are you being flexible or are you just inconsistent? Are consistency is a key to leadership? One hundred percent. If once again, if I'm walking into a shitstorm, I want to know which way the wind is blowing. If I at least have an idea if it's out of the North, I feel good. If you need more information, if you want to find the next episode business Podcast.com. Go there. Hang out for a while. It's where all the cool kids are hanging out. Did you know that? Yes. Yeah, yeah. I'm there, you're there, we're cool. Well, really? We're cool. I've decided. Just got promoted. Look at that. Also, do us a favor. Hit the business fix on all the social media platforms. We'd really appreciate that. And a review. As always, do me a favor. Take care of yourself. If you can take care of someone else too. We will see you very, very soon.