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Saying the Unsaid
2 friends discussing the surprising invitations, terrors, replications, possibilities and intimacy of process groups.
Saying the Unsaid
GROUP AGREEMENTS AS ASPIRATIONAL MARITAL (RELATIONAL) VOWS
Sarah + Vanessa wonder about what it would be like if marital vows, or friendship/relationship aspirations, were modeled after process group agreements.
Saying the unsaid. A conversation between a psychologist and a spiritual director who have been friends for over 30 years about process groups, the anticipated discomfort and the surprise intimacy. The inevitability of replication and the possibilities of doing something new. We're guaranteed to get some stuff right and some stuff wrong, but we're doing it anyway. Thanks for listening.
Sarah:We just did a recording on our process groups also valuable for people who identify as direct.
Mm-hmm.
Sarah:And it was like us from Planet Mars trying to describe people from a different planet. And I just. I had this memory of a specific story I can't remember if I've told you this. I, I'm sure I have. It was just a million years ago when I was married, my husband said that he wanted a dog, and I was like, oh, I don't do dogs. Yeah. And. He was like, well, I definitely wanna get a dog. And I was like, I definitely don't wanna get along. I was actually direct about that. I was direct about not wanting to get a dog. So then he said he was gonna go to the animal rescue and pick out a dog. Okay, if you're getting a dog, then I'm gonna go for the ride. So we go to the animal rescue in Philadelphia, and 95% of them are pits, and they were. Pretty active, jump up on the, gated area as you're walking by. And then there was this one dog that was very old, just laying on its side, not moving. And I looked at the little label over 12 years old and I thought, I don't think, dogs live that long, so. This is the one. I wanna have a short time span and low energy. Yeah, we, we choose her. Her name is Nikki. So we ride home with her in the back of the car and her face is between us and by the time we get home, I love her.
Vanessa:Yeah.
Sarah:Because I don't have a complete cold mm-hmm. I just thought I did. Okay. So I ended up loving this dog and it was an anxiety ridden time of my life. I was having panic attacks at some point, which is a very unusual experience for me. But they were kind of compacted during this one year, and I would lay with her and try to match my breathing to her. Such a nice presence, so one day I take her to PetSmart to get her nails done or whatever dog things you're supposed to do. And, I leave, come back, whatever, four, five minutes later and they say that he did fine. He's ready. Oh, I'm so glad she did. Well, you know, because that's okay that they missed her sex. But I just gently, you know, I'm glad she did okay. And they were like, yeah, he didn't bark at all. He did fine. And I was like, oh, glad to hear it.'cause she's never done something this. So we went back and forth a few times. Well, I'm trying to gently slide in that it's a she, they insist that it's a he. So then they say, what color bow would you like on him? So I didn't know what to do because I've said she so many times, and if I say pink, is that too aggressive? If I say blue, I feel like I've just betrayed my own dog. I mean, I don't even believe the colors belong to sexes, but so I just say, why don't we do yellow Thanks. He looks great. By the end, I'm starting to call her him and I take him, take him home with a Buble bee bow, like I don't have it in me to insist that my. 13 girl, dog. It's a girl. I will give away my dog's or self. Publicly to a pet smart employee. Oh, that's such a good example. So how was I supposed to be married? How was I supposed to have a happy marriage if I couldn't tell the pet smart employee that my dog was a she so. This week. I had it on my mind in a specific way because it was my 21st wedding anniversary yesterday, so I spent time reflecting on that and my experience being married and the wedding day itself, which you were there for.
Vanessa:Yeah.
Sarah:I've been divorced for eight years. But dates are important to me. And so I wrote a reflection about wedding vows, paralleling the group agreements that we make. I read it to you in our consultation group yesterday and wanted to share a couple, paragraphs here, and then we can talk about it more. I'd love that. I was thinking this week about group agreements and about marital agreements and about how both our aspirational, I was thinking about how it would be to stand at the front of a church before an intended partner and to say the group agreements. I will be accountable to my experience. I will say when I am present and when I am leaving the room, when I am bored, when I'm irritated, I'll keep putting my thoughts and feelings to words, even when they feel threatening, even when they might hurt your feelings. Even when it might upset our families, I won't grin and bear you or this, I won't endure loneliness, locked in my own mind and body. I won't let myself get sick by not opening my mouth. I will say when I don't like this and when my body hurts, I never intend to get married again. But theoretically, process groups are good. Practice for marriage. For holding onto yourself while connecting to the other saying, I will keep showing up, taking what I need and promise to tolerate the rub, but also promising to say when it's not working for me over and over again, and then maybe discontinuing, but not without full verbalization. I will keep tracking with you, not merging my response to what I think you want, but remain myself. Still listening and also speaking, so you too can be a self here.
Vanessa:I wept after you read that yesterday when we got off the zoom call and it was specifically that part, group agreements translated into vows. I still don't know why it moved me so much, but it was so powerful to think of doing what we do in group in our most intimate relationships. It was something about that, and I knowing you and how you translated that for your marriage, I mean, that's part of why I wept was because there was something so. Sad and beautiful about you being able to see what you didn't do and couldn't do then, and how I know you now and, how many of the agreements you can do now. How do you feel after having read that again?
Sarah:I feel like I could add more to them. Mm. More of the things I promise to say. Mm. I was reflecting on sad things that I wish that I had verbalized because they ended up causing more long lasting harm for both of us in their unspoken ness.
Mm.
Sarah:But I think if I were to rewrite it again, I would want to say, I would also tell you what I like, oh, what brings me alive. When I feel the most connected to you. Yeah. What I dream about and with you, I have a long history of relationships with getting massages where I feel like I can't say when it hurts. And I just pray to God rather than open my mouth. It's very hard to open my mouth and say I don't like that. And so I could also do a group agreement to my massage therapist if I promise to tell you when it hurts, you know? Yeah. But today I got a massage and. I told her before getting on the table that I have a really hard time saying what I don't like, like when I, when something's painful for me. And so if we could come up with some creative ways for me to be able to say what I need, and then in the end, I realized something that I like about touch that I've never known before. It's like the inverse of I will tell you when it hurts. Right. I will tell you what I find pleasurable.
Vanessa:Yes.
Sarah:And that feels equally important. Right. And in process groups for people to identify and say out loud, like, ouch. That interaction hurt. Mm-hmm. That feedback hurt. That hurt when I felt rebuffed. That hurt when I felt criticized. That hurt. But also to say, when you said that thing, I felt so close to you. Mm-hmm. Or so moved by you or tender towards you. Or I imagine desks running away together.
Mm-hmm.
Sarah:It's like the assertion of the desire, not just the verbalization of the rub. I think both are equally important.
Vanessa:This reminds me of a conversation we had in our consultation group recently, where we were referring to saying the unsaid. And my first connotation with saying the unsaid is saying the hard thing. It's saying the difficult thing I, that's what I tend to think saying the unsaid is, but there's this whole other side of unsaid, which is what you just said, the pleasurable thing or the desired thing. Or the vulnerable thing, the self-conscious thing. It's not just the aggressive, difficult thing. So you're right. I hadn't really thought about that in group, like the massage, that some of the most special moments are actually when something pleasurable. Happens and you can linger there and savor it and talk about it and name it and other people share it with you. It's so special. Sometimes it's very small, but sometimes it's kind of big. Those moments.
Mm-hmm.
Vanessa:Like you realizing today at your age, after so many massages, the kind of touch you like,
Sarah:yes. I can't even believe it. I feel like my future is gonna be full of pleasure. In one of our earlier conversations, we talked about how, in saying the unsaid, one step of it is knowing what you think. Yeah. And then being able to put it to words if you choose to.
Vanessa:Yeah.
Sarah:Um, same with pleasure. It's hard to ask for what you like if you don't know what you like. The act of discovering and being open to what feels good to me.
Mm-hmm. In
Sarah:step one, I was somehow missing that was so fixated on how do I communicate pain? I was forgetting. To pay attention to what do I like? And then now that I know it, I can put it to words more easily.
Vanessa:Yeah. But you went in this year with a goal to be able to tell your masseuse when it hurt, when it was too hard. That was your conscious goal. It wasn't this year. I'm gonna find out.. The exact kind of massage I like. But that's what you ended up finding out Yes.
Sarah:So I hope that that is something that our groups create space for too. Like, oh this, this is something that I really love. And I think people do experience that and then they want to find it you know, outside the room,
Vanessa:I looked at the group agreements to see which of them might be translated either into like a friendship vow or a partner vow of some sort. So I'll just read a few and we'll see if we like'em. So imagine this being either in a partnership or a friendship. I'll share any issues that may affect my ability to be emotionally present. The idea of your partner or me as a friend getting on a phone call with you and saying, Sarah, by the way, I'm in such a bad mood, so I just want you to know that Yes. Before our weekly talk or whatever. You like that?
Sarah:Yes, I do.
Mm-hmm.
Sarah:Even things like, I'm distracted by being hungry, i'm not gonna be able to focus as much right now.
Vanessa:Yeah,
Sarah:I think it's helpful.
Vanessa:Yeah. Okay. Another one is I'll seek to understand the other person and put that understanding into words in groups. It's, I'll seek to understand the other members and I'll put that understanding into words. This was actually quite. Revelatory for me in group. I read the group agreements and then one time I went back, like a year into it and reread them and I thought I'd never heard that before. I did not know one of my jobs was to seek to understand the other members and put that understanding into words, and I practiced it for a few meetings and it was very powerful to listen to them. With the goal of, I am trying to understand you, and if you're not making sense to me, I'm going to communicate my lack of understanding. Or if I think I understand you, I'm gonna try to see if I do. It feels different than that kind of pop cultural idea, make sure you repeat back to your spouse. What they said. Do you know what I'm talking about? There's like this idea that you like active listening or something as a parent or as a spouse. For some reason this was simpler for me to think, okay, there's this guy, um, and I'm gonna try with all my might to understand him. This stranger. Yes, one does feel like a good one for a partnership or a friendship.
Sarah:Definitely. I think that that agreement in the, absence of also paying attention to yourself could be. Problematic. Yeah. If you were only trying to track with everyone else. Okay. They're upset. Okay. Okay. I think that they're this, okay. But the combined effort of I will simultaneously hold onto myself and understand what's going on with me and try to understand what's going on with you that mutual holding of the other and myself. Feels so critical to close relationships. I guess that the inverse is also true. If I'm only tracking with myself but not seeking to understand you, then I also might lose the other. Yes.
Vanessa:Yeah. It feels, now that we're talking about, it feels so important. It feels like. Two of the main pieces for intimacy. Yes. As you were talking, I thought the why this is so revelatory for me is that if I don't understand someone, I just mostly nod as if I do. So what's different is to feel foolish and maybe annoying to interrupt, which is a group rule, and say I still don't understand what you're talking about. And to be putting all my effort into trying and to communicate my lack of understanding.'cause that's more often what I'm communicating. Mm-hmm. The few times when I'm like, wait, so are you saying this? And they're like, yes. Thank you. That feels great for both parties.
Mm-hmm.
Vanessa:But the larger percentage is admitting I don't get it. Instead of just writing them off. That's what I would do. Nod, smile, be polite. Wait for them to finish. Hope we don't go back and move on to something I'm interested in.
Sarah:Yes.
Vanessa:And I definitely do that in marriage. I don't, always seek to understand and put that understanding or that lack of understanding into words.
Sarah:When people are flooded or when people are hyper defensive, it's very hard to do that. So if someone is feeling actively injured, it's hard to also hold the other in mind. Yeah, and I think that's one of the things about group is trying to, even when you are in a wave of something, keep holding onto yourself, but see if you can still imagine what's going on with the other. Maybe there's some ebb and flow with that, but. It will be a more connected experience if people can do both. I'm hurt by you and I'm trying to understand what's going on with you and not disavow either side or lose interest in either side.
Vanessa:This one I really like for a marriage I'll try to put into words before acting on distractions, email, phone, internet noises, interruptions, and before acting on movement or body language. Something that annoys me is when my husband starts strumming the guitar when I'm talking, it's one of my biggest pet peeves. All of life. Kidding. I did not know this. Oh my gosh. I cannot handle it. It's such an aggressive move
Sarah:to me. Oh gosh. I'm sure I do. So many versions of strumming a guitar. Well, listening. Scrolling my phone. Yeah.
Vanessa:So, you're right. It's not super realistic with someone that you're in very close relationship with to say, um, while you're talking, I just wanna text back someone real quick, because as soon as you do that, it'd be like, what am I doing? But it's a good aspiration to think of that rule in group like that is a rule in group to at least notice when you wanna do something else besides be here.
Sarah:Yeah. That seems like it would be very tiring to do around the clock.
Vanessa:Yeah, definitely. As soon as I can, I'll share. When I'm not engaged, when I'm zoning out, when I'm bored, distracted, frustrated, or excited.
Sarah:This is beginning to feel very cumbersome.
Vanessa:It's true. That's why group is more like a gym, an exercise place. Yeah. Because we can't do this all the time. No.
Sarah:I just had a call with one of our group participants today. Yeah. And she was saying that she was deciding whether or not to continue with the group and one reason to not was because it's just so exhausting and takes up a lot of internal real estate
mm-hmm.
Sarah:In the hour but also the days following, thinking about it, regretting what she said. Feeling frustrated, whatever. Yeah. Yes. This is so hard. And she said, does it remain this hard? Because this is a huge time and emotion commitment. If so, and I don't know if I want to do that. And I said that I hope it's like working out where when you first lift weights, you're super sore for a long time. You know, as you do it more frequently, the soreness decreases. Pretty soon you can lift heavier weights without being sore. So I'm hoping that with the group agreements and relational agreements, when you get in the habit, like when you develop the muscle memory around holding onto yourself, putting to words what's going on in your mind and heart. And body and trying to continue to hold onto the other. Right now it feels like patting your head and rubbing your belly. Yeah. It's hard to do. How am I supposed to do all these things? Yeah. So it's fine to just try to flex one tiny muscle in a new way, but hopefully we become more coordinated and at ease. Mm-hmm. And it becomes natural to do these things both in a friendship relationship, in a romantic relationship, in a process group that I almost dunno how to exist any other way with you. And it's pretty easy. Yeah, that would be really nice.
Vanessa:Okay. The last one I wanna say, which you already said in what you had written up is I'll take responsibility for my experience. If I'm wanting something, I'll try to say it. If I'm frustrated or disappointed, I'll try to say it. That is just the best for friendship and partnership. Taking responsibility for my experience of my relationships. If I'm wanting something, I'll say it. If I'm frustrated or disappointed, I'll say it. I mean, if only we did that
Sarah:You know, working with couples or even individuals in the context of a couple, one of the biggest pitfalls is the continual disappointment about the partner not meeting their unspoken need. They should know. Don't you know everyone should do that and not, requesting what they want. Yeah. Even over and over again, that feels like a very common relational, dynamic that's just breeds resentment and blame while not taking ownership of your own life and needs. So I, I love that one. Me
too. Thank you so much for listening. If there's something you'd like us to talk about or you're interested in trying one of our groups, please email us at saying the unsaid group@gmail.com.