CONVERSATION BETWEEN LEADERS BEFORE STARTING A NEW GROUP

Sarah + Vanessa discuss some of the anticipatory excitement and angst of beginning a brand new process group.  

Transcript

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Saying the unsaid. A conversation between a psychologist and a spiritual director who have been friends for over 30 years about process groups, the anticipated discomfort and the surprise intimacy. The inevitability of replication and the possibilities of doing something new. We're guaranteed to get some stuff right and some stuff wrong, but we're doing it anyway. Thanks for listening. Hi, Sarah. Hi Vanessa. Okay, so we wanted to talk about starting a group, and today, right after this, we're starting a group. It's a little bit different because it's a demo group, so we didn't recruit these people and they're doing it for free and it's for learning purposes, but we still have so many of the same feelings before we start one of our own groups. I always have anticipatory excitement slash dread. I think Uhhuh because just stakes are high because I just, I love this so much and I want it to be good and there's a little bit of a, I hope I throw a good enough party. Yeah, so. That feels true when we're leading our saying the unsaid groups, and part of that is people are paying for it, they're paying to come to the dinner party, so the food better be good. Yeah. I trust that the food is good, but I always have a little bit of nervousness about it. Yeah. So today at least it's free. So it's okay if the food is that good, but what's added stress is that there's going to be observers. Yeah. And we're going to record it and then watch it back. So like added, performance anxiety because there's two layers of watching. This is reminding me of when we played volleyball in high school. Mm-hmm. And there are some people when they play sports, this is beyond me. I, I don't even understand it. Who like it when people come to watch them play? I don't know which category you fall in. Oh, I mean, I prayed not to get called off the bench, so I don't want anyone there. Hundred percent. So I also am the praying to not play category, I played softball. I mean, prayer number one is that the coach never takes me off the bench. And then prayer number two, this is a legitimate prayer. That the ball wouldn't go in my direction. Okay, so, but Sarah, you did gymnastics and I did ballet. I think in ballet. I liked having people come watch me, but that was like a routine that I prepared. And you too, didn't you? Like when people came to gymnastics, That's a good question. I like it. What you're saying resonates because if there's a choreographed routine there's a lot less degrees of What if I don't know what to do when a ball comes to me? Yeah. Like, I know, so I, much prefer choreography to freestyle. Yes. So that makes me think of like a floor routine where you know exactly when to salute, when to walk on, and what to do. Yeah. I feel like some of the other, um, apparatus, I don't even know what they're called, had more variables of I don't know if I'm actually gonna be able to successfully do this. Yeah. So there still was some performance, but way worse. Way worse when you don't know if the ball's coming or not. Well, group, it's not choreographed. Correct. Which is why I don't like it and why I don't want it to be recorded. Yeah. So same with volleyball. I don't want anyone to come. Mm-hmm. Some people would really be like, oh, you can't come to my soccer game. Aw. And I'm like, how could you possibly want someone to come? That's why even when I started learning how to dance, which is a really generous term, I went to a class where they teach you the choreography because. It feels like the first step is okay, everyone to the right. To the right. Yeah. Okay. You know? Yeah. It's easy to just do what naturally happens, so group is a huge stretch for me in that way. Yeah. And then being witnessed is another stretch. Yes. These podcasts are actually another stretch because we don't plan them out, and I as a, I don't know, on the perfectionist. Side of things would much prefer to write a perfect speech that I edit, edit, edit, and then read. That feels much safer than just having a conversation and pressing record, but I'm trying it. Yeah, so I theoretically like the idea of making a mistake, not hitting the ball. Right. Or saying something that you've in the future cringe about and surviving that. Mm-hmm. Because there's part of me that that feels terrible too. Yeah, it is exciting. That's what I hear you saying, the dread in my stomach that I feel right now, the uneasiness and like nervous laughter. Part of it is excitement because I don't know what's gonna happen. Yes. And it might be thrilling and it might be hilarious and it might be so cringey. But those are all like high on the scale of activation. Yes. It is the opposite of bored. Yes. But maybe in a moment of highest cringe, I would prefer boredom, but, but maybe not. Mm-hmm. I've kind of pep talked myself about us doing this demo and then watching it back that even in the cringes moments, we can laugh about it and tolerate it. It's okay. Mm-hmm. And I believe that is true. Yeah. So that gives a lot of freedom rather than waiting for me to make a perfect move as a leader. Yeah. And it gives me consolation to think that if worst case scenario I make a fool of myself today. Mm-hmm. That's a real service to group members. In volleyball that doesn't work. It's like in service to the other team, but not to your own team. And I don't like that scenario where your own team loses, but in this case, your team wins if you lose. So true. Um, that reminds me of yesterday when in one of our ongoing groups you tried to just do an impromptu SNLs skit. Oh, it was so cringe because, um, people just moved on from it. Like that's actually worst case scenario. Not even just like laughing because of how bad it was, but just, I just totally moved on from it. Yeah. Like a nothing to see there. Just keep it flowing. You were trying to act out, kristen Wiggin. Is it Dan Fred Armisen. Yeah. Oh my gosh. I love that bit so much, but I feel like the group didn't, know what you were talking about. Okay. But anyway, so that's a perfect example of Never did I laugh harder yesterday than after group recalling you. Trying to do the Kristen Wig and Fred Armon skin, it was worth it. Oh, earlier in yesterday's group, one of our participants made fun of us for being too zen and disconnected and like we're sitting in a, you know, pretend. Meditation pose the whole time. Yeah. Which I loved that she made fun of us in that vein. Oh, I loved it. Her voice was so funny. And her pursed lips. Yes. And I think that if she is acting me out, I think that there's an accurate reflection in there. Mm-hmm. To make fun of like it's worth making fun of. Yeah. Um. Yes. So I'm feeling hopeful that errors or idiosyncrasies in the leader are just fodder for process. So it's, it's okay. Yeah. Now I remember why I'm so excited for it now that we're talking about it. Before I was just so nervous, but this is so fun. It is so fun. But also like, it's, it's sort of nerve wracking to say it's fun because now I'm like, oh, I hope, are there gonna be like, it's actually not that fun. Yeah. You know, like, uh, it's still setting the table. Right. But I do think that there's like lots of different like tones of fun mm-hmm. And tones of activation. Yeah. That usually does feel pretty energized. Mm-hmm. Even if it's frustrating. Mm-hmm. His group is frustrating. That still is. Something's happening. Yeah. What is the worst case scenario for a first group meeting or today? Oh, good question. Okay. A couple possibilities. One is huge conflict between a couple members. That does not get resolved in any kind of way before we sign off. Somebody yelling at somebody else. Me being flooded and scared and feeling kind of frozen, like I don't know what to do. Racking my brain for what to say. I do not know what to say. I don't know how to jump in, and then time's up. That would feel awful. Mm. What comes to mind for you? What initially comes to mind for me is the opposite. Which is us running into each other at a coffee shop and doing the the super phony? Mm-hmm. Polite. Oh, just really, really interested in what you just said. You know, the hyper. Yeah, padded faux nice. When we know there's irritation underneath the surface. Yes. To me that feels worst and then we would have to watch it and be like, see we actually don't know how to scratch the surface. We can't help it Get beneath the like phone niceness. You're right. At least the other one. Something about our facilitation would've welcomed what was really going on or, you know, welcomed the heat. Yes. In your version, it's like something about us just disavowed the heat. Yes. And we're complicit in. A fake interaction. I wonder, I think I've been complicit in fake interactions a lot in my life. Oh yeah. So I know that I could easily slide into that and that would be really embarrassing for me to watch myself back doing the thing that I don't wanna do. Oh, yeah. I can't remember who said it, but someone once suggested the things that we most try to promote are probably the things that we need the most help with. Hmm. Um, so if someone keeps asserting to me that they don't like drama. I'm like, well that's a huge giveaway that you love it. And for me, or for us. Mm-hmm. Even our title saying the unsaid, I think that the reason why we are doing a business on saying the unsaid is because we have a ocean's worth of unsaid material. My gosh. That we are trying to do something different with so we're not doing saying the NSAID because we are experts at saying the nsaid. We're doing it because that's the exact muscle that we wanna learn to flex. Yes. So I just hope that we can flex it itty bitty bit in this first meeting. Yeah. Now I feel aware of another risk. Mm-hmm. And that is, someone leaving feeling really stupid or unheard or. Overlooked. Mm-hmm. Because I think I, I can do that, especially in this setting where it's a demo and so I am gonna try to be a little bit more experimental mm-hmm. Than even when we run our groups. And so it feels like there could be collateral damage if I don't pay enough attention to what might be going on for people. That could be okay. It's less good if someone leaves and they're just like, wow, that did not feel good to me. I guess it's only good if next week they can come back and say, wow, that didn't feel good to me. Yeah. So one of, I guess a couple of our growth edges as leaders, one is learning how to. Be in relationship with one another as leaders. Mm-hmm. And not just as parallel people staring straight out to the group and not ever glancing to the side. Yeah. And acknowledging person sitting right next to you. And then another area is. I don't know if it's facilitating, but facilitating slash tolerating, both of those things. Aggression towards us as leaders and our ongoing groups. It seems like they're beginning to do that, which I think is a sign that the groups are doing exactly what they should do. Yeah. But I'm just picturing if someone is disappointed, it could be valuable if they can say, Hey, why aren't you paying attention to me? Mm-hmm. Because that could be a useful thing. Mm-hmm. Not to plan preemptively, but if it happens, yeah, it's true. What I was saying feels like kind of that what I want is to be all knowing, to be able to attune accurately. And read everyone correctly so that no one gets hurt, which is impossible. And what happens in group is that one cannot do that perfectly and people do get hurt. Mm-hmm. And the invitation is to say, so one of my new ideas about group is. One of the purposes of process group is to figure out how to take care of the baby. Hmm. And each person is their own baby that is trying to get taken care of, and that that is a really important. Part of being alive is figuring out how to get your basic needs met and so the, the invitation is not to have perfect parents so that you don't ever have a need that isn't being met because that doesn't happen. Mm-hmm. It doesn't happen with your original parents. It doesn't happen with any surrogate parents. You gather throughout your life, everyone disappoints you and the. The work is about in part, continuing to say, Hey, I'm hungry. Hey, I need to rest. Hey, I need to be held even with a person who's not reading your every single move. Mm-hmm. And that, that is the invitation to care and not the perfect parent. Mm-hmm. Which includes the parents saying oh, I. Missed you last week, or I, I mean, I, I wasn't attuned to you. Yeah. And that feels like it's happening in some of our groups in little ways. I think it's like pretty vulnerable to think about yourself as a baby. I know it is. It's hard to do that. And then it's even harder to say, Hey, I'm not getting my needs met. A couple of our participants have recently said that, which is. Really amazing. Yeah. My initial inclination is to figure out how to, get them exactly what they need. Like definitely pull their bottle, rock them the exact way they need to be rocked, that kinda stuff. But I, I don't know if that's the highest good, rather than helping them identify what their need is and ask for it. Yeah. Before diving in and trying to to meet it. There's a balance there. I'm not sure. Yeah. I love the baby metaphor. Yeah. It's come up a few times, so it feels like it's in the water right now. It is. Very like competent, smart, intelligent people, including myself, feeling like a helpless baby and like this is not a good feeling, but it actually being an important feeling to have and group invites us to go more primitive. Yes to be like a baby. So that metaphor helps me understand that invitation, which is so counterintuitive to be you, you said in our, in a recent club, like the world is full of cavemen. Mm-hmm. That's what it kind of feel. A baby kind of feels like a caveman, a cave woman to me, just like grunting. Mm. Um, you know, like there's something like very guttural and visceral, hungry danger sex. So something about being like, no, the goal is to be, a baby at some point. Mm-hmm. To feel like a cave woman at some point. That doesn't mean you're doing group wrong, it actually means you're doing it right. Yes. When I think about regressed, group as an invitation to become more primitive. I think my go-tos are anger and desire. Yeah. Sex and rage. Yeah. So to me, the baby actually feels like a third. Uh, helpless. Hmm. So I think I have more like, oh, it would be really cool of me to be primitive and be like screaming about my anger or maybe be cool of me to express my erotic charge, but it feels less cool to be like, can someone pick me up? Definitely. So, but that also is a version of primitive like. I just need some basic things to survive. So I feel like all three of them are uncomfortable and there are different ways, but yeah. Okay. Anything else you wanna say about what it's like before a group starts? Starts? I mean, I dreamt about a group all night. What was your dream? Um, I don't totally remember it, but it was, it, I would go in and out of being in a group and it was very much like, this is, this is a group to tend, and I probably slept like hours less than normal because of how much I woke up and just was like, okay, I know I have a job, I have a job, I have a job. And I was doing my job through the night. Wow. So that's part of starting a group. It's like on my mind when I'm awake and it's on my mind when I'm asleep. Yeah. I feel like I kind of can't wait to be like six minutes into the group. Because I feel like the anticipation like a little anxiety provoking. Yeah. And I think maybe at some point early on I'll think, okay, this is a fun, like we have to go down the river. And like I actually Yeah. Always like this. And I anticipate afterwards saying to you, that was so fun. Because we always do, we do. But maybe we'll be like, that was terrible, but it terrible. That's kind of fun, so that's okay too. I do feel like there is a really wide road of whatever happens. There's a lot of potential, but I also feel a teeny tiny bit sticks my stomach. Me too. Perfect. Thank you so much for listening. If there's something you'd like us to talk about or you're interested in trying one of our groups, please email us at saying the unsaid group@gmail.com.