The Comfort Trap (Backbone Series Part 2)

Comfort is addictive.

And most people are trapped in it.

In this episode, Greg and Moe break down why modern life has made people weaker, softer, more distracted, and more afraid of discomfort than ever before.

From leadership and parenting to creativity, relationships, discipline, and success. This conversation is about what happens when comfort becomes the goal instead of growth.

Greg explains:

• Why hard conversations matter
• Why honest feedback creates excellence
• The danger of avoiding tension
• How comfort quietly destroys ambition
• And why fulfillment only comes after doing difficult things

This episode also explores motivation culture, AI, sports, bullying, creative pressure, entrepreneurship, and the uncomfortable realities required to build anything meaningful.

Because growth was never supposed to feel comfortable.

Backbone: Stop Being Weak and Do What’s Right available now on Amazon & Audible.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

This is what this whole book is about. This failure of nerve to do what's right and to do the hard stuff that needs to be done and have the tough conversation and parent accordingly. Have confrontational conversations that need to be had, whether it's within your organization or your team or your family, because we're all trying to maintain comfort. We want everybody comfortable. We don't want any tension. I always think about boiling water. It boils at 212. We want water at like 70. We're 10. In reality, you think you're at 72, but really you're at like 210. And you don't realize. You're holding it in. And you're holding it in to maintain comfort. And you're not having those tough conversations. Craig Vetter Podcast. We're discussing uh my new book, Backbone: Stop Being Weak and Do What's Right. Um this is the comfort trap.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

We're gonna talk about comfort episode or whatever you want to call it. Part two. Part two. There you go.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

Yeah. And there's some highlights of it, but at the end of the day, we were talking about it last time, and I think that I'm a good translator for complex personal development and success theories. I can break them down for the for the common man.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

I would I would love to hear that. I've been listening to a lot of, like I said, a lot of motivational um speeches or talks in the morning. Um start now. You know those, you know those titles. Start now. Yeah. What are you waiting for? Be more consistent.

SPEAKER_01 1:55

Don't be a bitch. Yeah. The funniest one is like you'll see just the most extreme shit ever. And it'll be like a fucking Roy head at the gym. Just fucking squatting 5,000 pounds. You're like, don't be a stupid little bitch. And you're just like, geez, man.

SPEAKER_00 2:16

Like, okay. All right. Yeah, but you know, so I've been listening to them, and you know, I I take the the Ted bits from each, but as I said before, all of them seem to have the same, it's just the basic things in all of them, and then they just tell their version of what that specific need or what that little basic fundamental need is and how to compound on it in their own words.

SPEAKER_01 2:46

It's like every motivational boat book is a principle from Napoleon Hill's Think and Grow Rich. Yes. Every single one. I don't know if I've ever heard a new theory on personal development that wasn't in that first book.

SPEAKER_00 3:04

I don't think is I don't think it's no new no new theories. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:08

Well, I I haven't read one that I can think of. I mean, there's always new ideas and new facts, but in the grand scheme of like get your ass up and find that fucking dog, it's all in Napoleon Hill's Think and Grow Rich. So I think one of the things that I talk about in this book is um comfort and this comfort trap. And this is peanut butter spread across everything in our lives today. I mean, parenting, uh, relationships, shopping, uh, information. I mean, when we needed a book and not to date ourselves, you went to the fucking library and you used the Dewey Decimal system. And had the library card to go find a book that you hoped had not been checked out.

SPEAKER_00 4:11

You just pulled that not to distract you, or you just pulled that from out the back of my brain. Dewey decimalism? You brought that out, you pulled that out of a cabinet in the back of my brain.

SPEAKER_01 4:22

I literally have not said that phrase since I was seven years old. God dang. And then when they got the computer where you could just instead of like going through the cards and taking the index card to the shelf to find to find the book, then you could put it in and it'd go, it's in section, you know, 118.

SPEAKER_00 4:45

I don't even know. Man, I haven't been to the library to look for books in so long. I can't I just go in there and probably get on my computer, and that's been at least four years ago since it did that. Well, I can't believe you went four years ago. Yeah, I mean it's a good one. That's in the twenty that's in the 2020s, dude. I mean, but it's a beautiful place. That new library is a good thing. Oh, the new library is nice. Yeah. It's nice in there.

SPEAKER_01 5:08

They gotta bring libraries back. Like, we need to get back to building them out and stop isolating, like go into some magnificent, beautiful European library that is just jaw dropping from that library in Baltimore.

SPEAKER_00 5:30

I mean, there's so many. I've never been in that one, but that library in Baltimore is beautiful. People have weddings in there and everything.

SPEAKER_01 5:37

Dude, I mean, you see these pictures of some of these libraries, and it's just jaw dropping.

SPEAKER_00 5:46

We're not building them anymore. We're not. They're gonna probably throw all the books away after a while. Hopefully. And then we're gonna be then we're gonna be in real trouble. You ain't lying about that. We gotta steal all the iPads.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

We gotta do something with it. It's definitely not making anybody smarter. It's making them comfortable. It's making them unbelievably comfortable because we have access to everything at our fingertips: food, energy, water, information for fitness, information for fixing things, everything. We need to get back to proactively going out and putting ourselves in very uncomfortable situations to develop the muscle of not being afraid to be in uncomfortable situations so that when they come up, we're prepared to attack the problem as it arises. Because again, your home is set at the exact temp that you want, and well, and even weight loss now. I mean, you got GLP ones, and on, you know, if you're morbidly obese, like this is amazing. Yeah, I mean get down to something that's manageable that's manageable, right? Quickly. Quickly. Before you, you know, die.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 7:20

Yes. Um, but at the same time, it's like we've removed the hard work of losing weight.

SPEAKER_00 7:28

Tell me about it. I've been trying to get this six-pack.

SPEAKER_01 7:33

Well, you can't eat ice cream uh every day in case.

SPEAKER_00 7:37

I have been eating ice cream every day.

SPEAKER_01 7:40

Well, actually, technically you could if you were on the keto diet and you made keto ice cream, then you technically could do that.

SPEAKER_00 7:46

I might have to get some keto ice cream because I took my daughter to get some ice cream and I couldn't have any. And I just sat there and looked at her, eat her ice cream. Oof. That is the ultimate dessert. Ice cream. I love ice cream. You know why I like ice cream with a nice fig newton? What?

unknown 8:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 8:07

Tell me about this.

SPEAKER_01 8:08

You don't like fig newtons? I liked when they came out with the raspberry fig newton. I've been eating fig newtons since they were original.

SPEAKER_00 8:17

You like the original fig. I used to get them in the lawn. Man, I would eat sit down, nice.

SPEAKER_01 8:24

What's the greatest texture ever?

SPEAKER_00 8:26

A sleeve of fig newtons and some Nickelodeon. I'm good.

SPEAKER_01 8:32

The Raspberry Fig Newton made me a Fig Newton fan.

SPEAKER_00 8:35

I just like the regular old classic fig newton. That should be your rap name. Fig Newton. Coming out. Fig Newton. Y boy figgy. Fig Newton.

SPEAKER_01 8:53

And then you could have a bunch of interesting names like Kanye or Lil Wayne, how they have like 37 names. Yeah. Like Figgy. Yeah. Newt. Yeah. Yeah, your boy Newt. Tunny tun. Newt, no seed. No seeds. So getting back to comfort, um in the comfort trap. The access to information, jobs, money, inform the information to get jobs, the information to flip real estate. Everything is so available, and granted, not everybody takes advantage of it, but it does create this overarching sense that everything should be comfortable all the time. Like our kids should be happy all of the time. We should eliminate every obstacle from their lives so that their lives can be as happy and comfortable as possible. And the same for us, right? Our goal is I want to retire, I want to travel, I want to go to the beach, I want to sit on the beach, I want to do this, I want to drink margaritas. That's not what we're built for. Yes, there are moments where we need to rest, right? On the seventh day, we rest.

SPEAKER_00 10:23

Yeah, that's a nice relaxing time drinking margaritas on the beach. But I couldn't do that every day. Hell no.

SPEAKER_01 10:29

But there's this weird obsession with happiness or what we think happiness is. Right. I always go back. The ancient Greek definition of happiness was the full use of your powers along lines of excellence. It was not a margarita on a beach. There are moments for that. We have gotten away from the full use of your powers along lines of excellence, and we have confused. Somebody made a comment on um my Substack article. Shout out to Damian O'Dherty. Oh, and he said um instead of the pursuit of happiness, it should have been the pursuit of gratitude. Because we have just completely focused on I need to be happy, but we've also changed the definition of what happiness is. It's always changing what you get close. Yeah. And then you change it. One times change.

SPEAKER_00 11:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:49

Right? And this is what this whole book is about. Which is this failure of nerve to do what's right and to do the hard stuff that needs to be done and have the tough conversation and parent accordingly and have confrontational conversations that need to be had, whether it's within your organization or your team or your family, because we're all trying to maintain comfort, basically. We want everybody comfortable. We don't want any tension. We don't want any, you know, the I always think about boiling water. It boils at 212. Um we want we want everything, we want water at like 70. We want it room temp.

SPEAKER_00 12:44

But you wind up getting at 212 when you don't say everything at 70.

SPEAKER_01 12:50

Right. It's it starts heating up. Yeah. And then you can't control it, and it spontaneously combusts.

SPEAKER_00 12:59

But if you all at once, like it's like 70 to 212.

SPEAKER_01 13:02

Right. Well, because well, in reality, you think you're at 72, but really you're at like 210. Right. And you don't realize it. You're just holding it in. You're holding it in. And you're holding it in to maintain comfort. And you're not having those tough conversations. Laugh now, cry later. Oh, yeah, I heard that before. And everybody's crying. But we're comfortable. And we tell everybody we're happy. How you doing? I'm great. Never been better. Is that real? No. You just say it. Now, I understand positive affirmations, and you gotta speak your goals into existence. Yep. Everything's a self-fulfilling prophecy, so you do want to limit it. You want to limit self-talk that's negative as much as possible. But I think you also need to look at the world the way that it is that day, and then figure out ways to create and make it positive and make it productive and make it in a way that moves you forward, regardless of how uncomfortable that is. Cause I mean, you you look at a day, how many, if you were to do your critical and urgent, beneficial and important, how many of those conversations or things that you need to do require some form of an uncomfortable conversation, and you look at it and you go, Fuck.

SPEAKER_00 14:47

I don't want to make this phone call right now. Yeah, I I can see that sometimes uh I mean, it's not all the time, especially well, maybe things on my list.

SPEAKER_01 14:59

I don't creator, yeah. I don't really require you're not out here being like, yo, dog. Yeah, you're not performing, but you have recently you had to have those conversations.

SPEAKER_00 15:14

Yeah, we had to talk about a few things, right? And I still found myself trying to, okay, well, I don't want to come off too mean, I don't want to act like I'm, you know, being an ass, you know, because sometimes you see some things and some work where you know you want to edit, or it's just not looking right to me, and you gotta say, hey man, I know you're pretty good, but I don't like the way this looks. Um, can we can we tighten this up?

SPEAKER_01 15:42

But think about our relationship and how long we've been working together. I don't have to worry about that. Yeah, now that was a journey in itself. It was a journey in itself, but how efficient are we in the creative and design process?

SPEAKER_00 15:58

We we we got steps now.

SPEAKER_01 16:01

You send something, I go, nope. It's just a nope too. You go, now if it's way off, you're like, all right, I'm gonna need why it's a no. But sometimes if it's a first iteration and I just go no, usually, and I'd say eight out of ten times, you come back with something that is dramatically better, and then we just have to make tweaks.

SPEAKER_00 16:31

Yeah, that's usually so yeah, we get we got that down to like a science, and I already know if it's like a whole day of tweaking or a whole day of not not that one, not not that one. I know now the next day I'm coming down to the farm and I'm gonna be sitting at the kitchen table. And that way we that's just and just bump, bump, bump, bump, bump. That way you can look over my shoulder, you see, be like, okay. Or you'll step in like, I'm not really trying to go that that way, let's go this way. Yeah. And then it's just a quick turnaround. But that's you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01 17:03

That's that's developed over 15 years. But we don't worry about uncomfortable conversations because it's there's a culture of transparency. And this goes back to the confrontational conversation template. Where the first time you have one, you know, you follow it, the fierce conversations template. You know that I care about you. You know that I'm gonna say these things because I want to work to here are the things that I'm seeing, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Here's how I've contributed to them. And when you do it enough times, you don't have to say any of that anymore.

SPEAKER_00 17:48

Right.

SPEAKER_01 17:49

You're just like, you're off track, brother. We gotta tweak this immediately. This sucks. And it's not because I don't like you.

SPEAKER_00 17:59

It's just like we get into it quick. We just get into it quick. We take all the sugar off. It's just like, nah. No. Uh-uh. And some people probably just coming on, they probably get offended. Yeah. Offended about that, but well, they're not comfortable enough being uncomfortable. Or they think they're so good. You remember that one time? You remember that one time when we was in the kitchen and you was like, man, people. I think we were trying to figure out why people weren't liking our stuff at Tessie May, liking our like our photos and everything. And I said, Greg, what if our photos are just too good and they're not liking them? And you said, nah. He said, nah, that's not it. And now I go back and look at him. I was like, yeah, Greg was right, man.

SPEAKER_01 18:55

It wasn't that good, but well, you know what, you know what else is funny is we're we're so transparent now. Do you remember when we were working with I forgot what his name was, and he did something and it just kind of like sucked. And Genevieve was like, I need you to send him a text message to the group that said, like, Good job, man. But if you can make these couple tweaks, like everything will be better and like keep up the good work exclamation marker. She fucking wrote it because I would never say that in a million years. So I send this text and you fucking call me, you go, who the fuck sent that text? Oh, I think I think I know I remember that. And I was like, wasn't me. And you go, yeah, I fucking know. You used an exclamation mark. You said keep up the good work. Maybe you could tweet this little thing like this, and you know, this is I remember that. And you were like, you would never say that shit. And I was like, You would never say that to me. I was like, Yeah, I didn't, that wasn't me. I knew you didn't say that. And you said something else funny. You go, man, why don't you start saying that shit? I go, because it's a fucking waste of time. We want to get the thing done to its greatest capacity in the development of the idea or the packaging or whatever it is, and pussy footing around to get it done is there's no backbone in it. It's a failure of nerve, and you're trying to maintain comfort in a relationship that's probably too fragile to sustain itself, and that maybe is the other thing about comfort. You're trying to keep something alive that shouldn't be alive, and that's the thing.

SPEAKER_00 20:58

Now we just I just posted something today. It was uh you don't win or lose, you always learn. There was something around that. Well, that's true. Well, but but no, it was it was but never give up. So what now what you say in the comfort thing, you get so comfortable you don't know when to what let it go or something.

SPEAKER_01 21:24

You just said just not Well, maybe you're trying to keep a relationship alive that's just not gonna work.

SPEAKER_00 21:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 21:35

How do you d what's the word?

SPEAKER_00 21:37

Diff diff differentiate? Yeah, differentiate it. From moving on versus quitting. I think that's like because because you know, somebody like me, like, you ain't gonna make me give up, or you ain't gonna make me quit. I'm gonna keep going. Somebody's gonna, I'm not quitting. I'm gonna keep rolling.

SPEAKER_01 21:55

It all comes down to critical feedback in constant evolution. You are going to find a way to win. And so you win. What I'm talking about are people that are too sensitive to make the adjustments required to win.

SPEAKER_00 22:15

Oh, like when I was ready to quit. Because when you told me, like, man, fuck this.

SPEAKER_01 22:20

Like in like the first year.

SPEAKER_00 22:22

Yeah, it was like the first. Yeah, maybe the first year.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

Well, you told me the story. I didn't know, but I had given you feedback on something. Yeah. And you said you went back to your little office. We're like, man.

SPEAKER_00 22:34

Everybody like my shit, man. I don't need this shit. And you were like, man, fuck Ray. I remember that, but but hey, man, I tied, hey, I don't know if I wasn't at the end of my rope, but but I tied the knot and I hung on. But that was just part of the evolution. So I got over that stage and I moved to the next level where I believe some of those were some of the best of my growth years as an artist, as a creative, as even taking on more responsibility and having more responsibility to things and keeping things, you know. Dude, you I worked a couple of many people.

SPEAKER_01 23:17

Yeah, dude. A couple years ago, you just you locked in. Like you crossed over into elite status, and you've always been elite creatively, but the timeline that it took for you to get something done was longer than anybody was willing to wait. And then you figured out how to be creative in an efficient manner and develop products while receiving critical feedback in a mature way to develop things at an unbelievable pace. Because that's what it is. Like if you give anybody unlimited time, unlimited? Right. You give them unlimited time, they're gonna take it. They can do it. Yeah. Right? Like if I say, dude, draw me the greatest eyeball ever, and you have unlimited time. Okay, great. Yeah, you can do that in fucking five years. Like you can individually draw every color within the eye. The eyelashes are magnificent. If I say, dude, I need it in two weeks, that's where you figure out who can find this balance of beauty, artistic creativity, the ability to execute, meeting deadlines, and getting it to a point where it's good enough. Right? Above that 85% threshold of man, that's really good.

SPEAKER_00 25:05

And then tweak it from there on you know some things where uh and not to deviate.

SPEAKER_01 25:12

But side note, that's uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_00 25:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 25:15

Nobody wants that equation. But that equation is the equation fast and good. Right? Fast and good while receiving shitloads of critical feedback on something that they're not an expert in in terms of the actual craft. So you gotta listen to people go, that sucks. Well, why? Well, I don't know why, but just make it not suck. I hate that feedback.

SPEAKER_00 25:48

Right. But then I'll be like Okay. Uh so what do you want? I don't know. Yeah, I don't know, but I know it's not this. That's not it. Okay. I'm like, all right. But yeah, I think uh I think that happened to me probably around the um when we started doing those really those dressings, and then we did the Jerry Garcia and all that. That's when I took like and then the final stage was when we rebranded all of the bottles. Yeah. And then I had to do everything that the agency did for the first ones. Like I rebranded them, I edited them, I took the photos of them.

SPEAKER_01 26:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:33

Then I put them up on the website. I think I rebuilt the website. Yeah, we did.

SPEAKER_01 26:38

Yeah, so we did and we did it in like a month. Yes. We sat there, I know it was every Pantone combo, every vegetable and herb combo.

SPEAKER_00 26:55

I had to get a Pantone book. Fucking Pantone books you ordered.

SPEAKER_01 26:59

Then we clipped, like, then we had to hand draw the designs of the like I remember we had like a lemon shape, we liked it, but then we needed a whole one. So then you drew what the equivalent of it would be, and we did that across, I don't know, 10 dressings or something. Yep. That was nuts. But anyway, going back to the comfort trap. That was uncomfortable for me. Fucking right, dude. That was uncomfortable for everybody because we were we were also doing it at a time where it was like a Hail Mary to try and reinvigorate the brand from a shelf sales perspective, and maybe that would be the thing that saved us. Dude, we were out there swinging for the fences.

SPEAKER_00 27:54

I don't think we ever get comfortable because we always grinded. Yeah. And the grind sometimes in itself is uncomfortable. But as my father said, ain't nothing but something to get used to.

SPEAKER_01 28:06

Yes, he does say that. Yeah. And it's a great quote. And I will say something else. The most accomplishment you will ever feel is after doing something unbelievably uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_00 28:22

I remember that one.

SPEAKER_01 28:24

It you don't you don't feel a sense of fulfillment, and you don't feel a sense of accomplishment after doing something really comfortable.

SPEAKER_00 28:35

Yeah, you get that adrenaline spike. And I still get it. Like right now, when I'm learning, when I when I sent you that thing, it was a small one, but when I sent you the podcast thing, I said, look at it. Yeah. I found out how to do it. Right, right, right. You know what I'm saying? And and that even doing that and just figuring out things like me going through this AI world now as an artist. First, I I swear I was like, man, AI. Yeah. Fuck AI. I don't want to. I'm an artist. This is out here making videos, I make videos. This is out here making photos, I do photos. Yep. It's ready to take my job. Yeah. But I told myself, there's been a few times where I was uncomfortable in switching things, or I would wait until everybody probably was already on it. And then I got kind of comfortable. I was like, okay, well, let me do it. You know what I'm saying? Like, I was late to Instagram. I was late to, I'm not even on TikTok, but I was late to to Vine when everybody started doing stuff. You know what I'm saying? When everybody started doing stuff, I'd be like, I'm an artist. I'm not doing that. I'm not. You know what I'm saying? But now I know I came a tad bit late for AI, but I really think I changed my perspective and I really got in it sooner than I would have if I was thinking the old way that I Well, and I'm on your ass because I'm the opposite.

SPEAKER_01 30:02

I'm always looking for a tool. Because I know maybe I'm from the future, and I just know that things are there, and I'm always just trying to find something that's more efficient. Because when I'm doing something dumb, I'm like, there's no way this is the way. There's just no way. And it is. And then something happens and you get 2% more efficient. Mo, check this out. Or, yo, man, test this out. Let's see if it works. Some things are great. And again, we've talked about AI before. Talk about fucking the comfort trap, dude. I actually saw a really funny quote this morning on Substack. And the woman goes, I don't want AI doing my writing in art. I want it doing my fucking laundry and dishes so that I can do my writing in art. So why don't you figure out AI how to do my laundry and dishes so I can focus on my writing in art and not doing my writing in art so I can focus on my laundry and dishes? I thought that was so funny.

SPEAKER_00 31:18

Come over here, pulley's clothes. So I can get back to work. But it's true. Yeah, we want to do the writing and the art. We want to do the creative shit. Yeah. We don't want you to write the script. We want to write the script.

SPEAKER_01 31:32

Yeah. But I I I will also say it's not great at the deep stuff, like the creative, deep stuff.

SPEAKER_00 31:44

Yeah, you still need, like we said, I mean, we already talked about it, but yeah, it's still, you still need to tweak. Well, even the image stuff is really annoying.

unknown 31:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:54

Like you, you gotta be a fucking prompt king to be able to get the intricacy of design that you're looking for for this stuff. You gotta be a you gotta be a poet.

SPEAKER_00 32:06

Yeah, you gotta be. Maybe a poet would be a great prompter.

SPEAKER_01 32:11

Maybe. I mean, you gotta have a prompter to prompt, to write the prompt, to get the prompt, to put it in the system, to then edit the prompt to get the shit. And it's like at that stage, you might as well just fucking do it yourself.

SPEAKER_00 32:27

Yeah, because then you already took an hour, an hour and a half, and I'm like, I could have done that in 15, 20 minutes.

SPEAKER_01 32:35

There does that, yeah, there needs to be something. Again, some of the stuff that's popping out now in terms of like video is insane. Yeah, well, yeah, you're not gonna do that in no 15, 20 minutes. No, but but the picture editing stuff, I mean, it's all cool. And we're it's an amazing tool, and I think it is gonna be amazing for people like us that are already creating and have been creating the hard way, and now we can create so much more so efficiently that you know the world should be our oyster in theory. We'll see.

SPEAKER_00 33:14

Right.

SPEAKER_01 33:15

Um but the comfort side versus being uncomfortable, it comes down and I would say the greatest way to sum up being uncomfortable is the story about my son getting bullied about his lunch when he was like in first grade. Right. Kid ate like a horse one day, his lunch is untouched. What's up, man? Nothing, just wasn't hungry. Second day, lunch untouched. What's up, dude? Nothing, I just wasn't hungry. Third day, lunch untouched. What the fuck's up, man? This kid's making fun of my lunch every day because it's like too big and too healthy and too this and too that. You're gonna have to confront this bully, dude. And that is gonna be some uncomfortable shit for a first grader. Right. So he sits there and he goes, Well, what am I gonna do? I go, You're gonna stand up, you are going to dump a drink on his head, and when he stands up, you're gonna punch him as hard as you fucking can in his stomach, and then you are gonna scream in his face, don't ever fucking talk to talk about my lunch ever again. So this is Severn, right? Like a little kid, he's in first grade, he's the cutest little first grader ever. Now he's a little man. So I teach him how to punch. We're hitting the knuckles properly, we're rotating our hips. He's like, I really don't want to do this, dad. I'm like, what? I'm gonna be going to the principal, I'm gonna get suspended. I go, I don't care about any of that shit. If you don't nip this in the bud today, they are gonna fucking ridicule you every fucking day for an entire year. And that's a different form of comfort or uncomfort. Yeah. So we talk through it. I'm like, I'll be waiting for you at the bus stop. And I got my phone on for when the principal calls me. So he gets off the bus. I go, I didn't get a call from the principal, and he's like, So this is what went down. Kid was talking shit about my lunch. I got up, dumped a drink on his head. He was in shock. He didn't stand up. I said, Don't ever talk about my lunch ever again. I didn't have to punch him. I sat down, finished my food. I think that's the end of that. And I'm like, damn, bro. I'm like, were you ready to punch him? He's like, I was gonna do it if I needed to. Kid never never talked shit about his lunch ever again. And the lesson on bullying was learned, it was very uncomfortable. He was prepared to be in a very uncomfortable situation, but that uncomfortable situation outweighed the uncomfort that I think he was feeling with them talking shit about his fucking lunch. Because that's uncomfortable in itself. Right. And so this whole thing of the comfort trap that we're in, we're all in some version of that. Could be at work, you hate your job, but it pays you a lot, the golden handcuffs, whatever. Right? Could be a relationship, hate your wife, but you're married, you have kids, you figure out a way. Regardless, you're gonna if you're laughing now, you're gonna cry later.

SPEAKER_00 37:07

Right.

SPEAKER_01 37:08

And I think the biggest issue that we have today is a failure of nerve, no backbone, and a complete and constant dedication and commitment for this false sense of comfort in the world instead of doing what's required.

SPEAKER_00 37:31

And that's that's how I think about it. So it's just all basically now doing what doing what's required no matter how it makes you feel, yeah, and no matter who you think feelings you might hurt. But if it's right and it needs to be said, you need to say it and you need to stand on. That's what I think.

SPEAKER_01 37:52

I mean, it's not easy. I have multiple horrible conversations every day. But it's a muscle that gets developed. You look at it on your to-do list and you just go, fuck.

SPEAKER_00 38:08

Right. So how can someone who read this book and now they're looking like, okay, I can see some areas in my life where I need to, you know, pep it up a little bit. Yeah. Like, like you said, you said it's just something that you learn. So so would you just you just start? I know, I know for you, you just say you're gonna be able to do it.

SPEAKER_01 38:31

It depends on the situation. You should in all things start small. Right? Have a little conversation that you need to have that you're uncomfortable having. Um, you know, uh something I used to do to mentally prepare myself for battle at work was in the fast lane driving to the tree fort, flashing my brights to someone that was in the fast lane because it's a passing lane. Right. Well, there's a high probability that there's then gonna be some version of a conflict after the flashing of the bright out the window. Middle finger, it's the Maryland-Baltimore area, road rage is happening on a daily basis. So, like, you gotta be prepared for whatever you're doing. And it is one of those things where you roll up on a car, they're going slow, it's a passing lane. You don't really want to do that because it's like, is this really worth it? Will they just eventually get over? But I started using that as my my pressure test for the day. Was I willing to kind of engage in some uncomfortable activity?

SPEAKER_00 39:51

Yeah, I can feel you on that because nowadays you don't know what somebody's gonna do in the car. It's crazy. Um I know if somebody hit me, I'm always ready to fight. I'm ready to fight.

SPEAKER_01 40:04

I always tell myself that, but you know, I'm prepared. At least I think that I am. Yep. Likewise, I think that I am. I I will say there's a couple universal laws of of fighting that I hold true. I look for cauliflower ear, right? The college wrestler cauliflower ear. Oh, okay. They got that, I'm not fighting. Right? I'm I'm looking for that. You obviously you never fight someone in special forces or like a Navy SEAL, you're gonna fucking die. Oh, yeah. Um that's kind of it, right? Like, I'll weigh it up. Um I don't care as much about size, but like I'm evaluating the situation and I'm looking for signs. Like, okay. Should I you gotta feel you out? Yeah, I gotta feel this out. At the same time, at the same time, I'm fully prepared regardless.

SPEAKER_00 41:06

I'm still gonna I'm just like mentally preparing whether or not I'm gonna get my ass beat. Yeah, I'm hoping still holding up my you know, my feel of aggression. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:15

What are you doing? Yeah, well, uh, and I don't really talk that much. I mean, if it's if it's going down, it's fucking going down. Yeah, and we're gonna do it quick.

SPEAKER_00 41:24

My father said, you never talk when you're ready to fight. No, like you'll never want to get caught with your mouth open, they're gonna hit your jaw.

SPEAKER_01 41:31

Dude, well, and I see these people like I love watching viral fights on YouTube and Instagram.

SPEAKER_00 41:41

Oh man. Love it. Especially the underdog when he knocks the big person out. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:47

Love all that, but like these dudes are putting themselves in that situation. They're like in their face, like, what the fuck are you gonna do about it? It's like, that is not what you should be doing at all. You need to be six feet, you gotta keep your dick. You get it, you get up too close. No. Well, and then I was just I watched some, it was like Frat Bro gets knocked out by some old dude at a restaurant, and this guy's like talking shit to this old dude with his boys at a table, and the guy starts walking over, and he stands up over a table, leans over, like, what are you gonna do? This old dude just throws a fucking right right there. Dude is asleep, and his boys don't do shit. They just get up, pick his ass up, and leave.

SPEAKER_00 42:45

Yeah, man. Those are very uncomfortable situations to be in. The most. But you you get those butterflies in your stomach. Yes. Right when you, you know, back in the heyday, you always got the little butterfly. You know what's up before you get a good hand to cuff or fist to cuff on. You know what I'm saying? I've been in those. And you always, you know, also football. You I would get those before football games. Lacrosse games. Before you, before you went out there, before the but after like like the first play, but after the first play, they gone. You laughed.

SPEAKER_01 43:21

I was so juiced up before games. I used to have to listen to really calming music because I was so jacked up from the moment I woke up. I was listening to like Enya, David Gray. I'm listening to like the most freaking quiet shit anyone's ever listened to, and then I would just like take them off and just start going like fucking brave heart.

SPEAKER_00 43:49

I should have been more aggressive when I played football. I was, I was, I was, I was good. I was decent. Yeah, I was decent, but I I wasn't a star, but I was decent, but I feel as though I Have been a little bit more aggressive, knowing that I know now, but I think I was good for where I was at. It was it was a fun time.

SPEAKER_01 44:06

You were trying to preserve the halftime show with the drums.

SPEAKER_00 44:11

Maybe so. All right, let's let's wrap it up, good boy.

SPEAKER_01 44:16

Backbone out. Is it out on audiobook yet?

SPEAKER_00 44:20

Yeah, you can say it is.

SPEAKER_01 44:22

It's out on audiobook. Um, I like it. I think it needs to be read. Yeah, so who is this book for? This book is for anybody that needs a wake-up call on what is required to succeed in the world from a general leadership perspective.

SPEAKER_00 44:51

Okay. So it ties all the way back. So were all your thoughts in this book um, I guess, develop or around the entrepreneurial lifestyle journey, or is this life?

SPEAKER_01 45:06

Yeah, it's about life. It's about doing what's required in life. All right. And that obviously translates to stacking paper. Greg Vetter Podcast, Maurice Taylor, former percussionist talking about backbone, available now on Amazon and Audible. See ya.