Gregory Vetter Podcast
Gregory Vetter shares the raw realities of entrepreneurship—the struggles, breakthroughs, and lessons that shaped his journey, as told in Undressed. Tune in for unfiltered insights on resilience, reinvention, and the true cost of success.
Gregory Vetter Podcast
The Mindset That Separates Good From Great
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By Endurance We Conquer.
Former NFL Pro Bowler Ryan Kerrigan joins Greg for one of the most honest conversations yet on discipline, leadership, fatherhood, preparation, adversity, and what it really means to compete.
From playing through injury and surviving the mental grind of professional football… to coaching young athletes, raising resilient kids, and building standards that actually matter — this episode dives deep into the mindset behind long-term success.
Greg and Ryan discuss:
- The obsession required to become elite
- Why consistency matters more than motivation
- What sports teach kids that modern culture doesn’t
- Leadership, accountability, and consequences
- Marriage, parenting, and family alignment
- Competing with yourself every single day
- And why growth only happens through discomfort
Because greatness is never built through shortcuts.
It’s built through endurance.
🎯 New episodes weekly on The Gregory Vetter Podcast.
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Does anybody want to get in an ice bath? No, it never gets warmer. It's never gonna get warmer, but that is a mental battle with my weaker self. I'm fucking getting in that thing. Those little wins, that's a muscle. You're building a muscle in your brain. Sport is the greatest area where there's immediate results, there's manufactured adversity, there's haters, there's politics, blood, there's sweat, there's tears. I tell my kids this all the time. I don't care if they're good at sport, but I do care if they are dedicated to being the best versions of themselves in something that they chose to be in. We're live, Greg Vetter Podcast, special guest, Ryan Kerrigan in the house, former Redskin when the Redskins were the Redskins, and maybe they'll change their name again. See, we're a coach. The future is open now, right?
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah. I mean, it is that you know, hoping, you know, just still waiting to find that next opportunity.
SPEAKER_02You got the knowledge.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, so I went and spoke to the commanders a couple years ago before a playoff game. I brought everybody one of my books, and the theme that I brought was um, or I talked about was Fortatudine Vincimus, which was By Endurance We Conquer. And you sent me a note on Instagram, and you're like, dude, I'm reading your book. This thing's fucking crazy. So I was just uh I had followed your career, and uh, you seem just like a very interesting down-to-earth guy and reached out on Instagram, and here we are. And so uh young Buck in the grand scheme of the world, right? You're 37. 37, yeah. 37, four kids, four kids, married, married. Um and one of the first things we talked about was I have some of my favorite books in here. This is by no means my normal library, but uh When Pride So Matter by uh Vince Lombardi and or about Vince Lombardi. And uh we were joking that that doesn't that's not really a thing anymore. It is for uh I guess a select few, but I find as a dad, because I have four kids, my oldest is a freshman in high school, my youngest is in fourth grade, and it's it's the things that we grew up caring about. I'm 43, or I'm turning 43 this month. Um I I feel like it's becoming more and more rare. Like the parents, I feel even though they're our age, I feel like they're not instilling that stuff in their kids anymore. I don't know, man. Like you have a very different perspective being uh a D1 football player and then in the NFL and seeing and a long career, too. How long?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I was fortunate. I got to play 11 years, played 10 here in Washington, and then played my last one in Philly. Um, I like to say I'd you know it was kind of a shell of myself with that Philly. That Philly won. My my knee wasn't uh wasn't exactly all there. It didn't allow me to be the player I'd been accustomed to be, but got to play 11. So it was it was very fortunate.
SPEAKER_02Was that was that meniscus stuff?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. It's all yeah, it started from my meniscus. I'd torn my meniscus back in 2013, um, and like a real smart guy decided to play the uh rest of the season on. I did it in week three, decided to play the rest of the season on it. Not a smart decision, but um think a little bit of you know pride and you know wanting to be out there for the team kind of you know led led to that. And I uh it was, you know, I I still got to I got I played and was was there for my team, but I from that point on it was this kind of a downward uh slope for my health slope of my joint health for my knee, which you know by the time I got to year nine, ten, eleven, it was it was uh it was a grind.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So you tear your meniscus in week three, you grind through it. Are you a captain at that time? I was not a captain, no, not that season. Yeah, no. And so, but you're a leader on the team. And what why did you want to play through it? Because I mean that would be something that I would have done, like broke my hand playing lacrosse, just basically got a plate put in it, put a cast, bought a glove, cut everything out, played with it, did that a couple different times. But a lot of people don't do that. So Terry meniscus, and you're like, fucking tape it up.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fuck. Can I can I you know don't hurt that bad? So and and I'd I'd make that voice and joke, but like that was really the mentality. And you talk you talked about, you know, pride. I was like, I had pride in being out there, my and especially when it came to like how often I was out there, because if you go back to my rookie year and even into my second year, I didn't miss a defensive snap until week nine, week nine of my second season. So like every defensive snap Don't you have some record for that?
SPEAKER_02Don't you own the record for like linebacker starts or something crazy?
SPEAKER_01Well, yes, and that and and so at I was I had that kind of mentality. Like, if I'm if the defense is out there, I'm gonna be out there. And the only reason I that that came to an end in week nine of my second year was we were beaten the Eagles by so much in week 10 or you know, week nine or whatever that was, that they're like, hey, you know, come out of the game, like you're like we're well, let's get rested up for next week. Um, but then you know, when that when that happened in you know week three of that of 2013 season, I really kind of I kind of had to talk to myself, like, look, like this this hurts, like it's not healthy, but I feel like I can play, so I need to be out there. And you know, I kind of threw caution to the wind and um you make your decisions, you live with the results and the outcomes. But um, you know, I at that was my mentality was if if our defense was on the field, I wanted to be on the field.
SPEAKER_02So what did they do to to get you on there from like a pain management or stabilization perspective so that you could perform to the best of your ability with that?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, it was morning daily treatments, morning treatments, mainly just keeping everything strong around it. And um I unfortunately at the time didn't understand the function of the meniscus, which that's why I encourage a lot of you young guys now, like understand your body, understand like if if someone, if a doctor or trainer is telling you this is injured, know what is injured and know like what what that is what that's role in your that that body part's role is within your body so that it's not you know compromising other other areas. And and so I just thought, you know, oh well meniscus isn't an ACL, like you're not having surgery right away, so you're good. And then I don't think it helped because neck the next week against the Raiders, I got two sacks and a forced fumble. So I'm like, oh, this ain't shit. Like I can do this, this is nothing. So um played the rest of the season on it. And I mean, like I said, you I don't I don't regret it because I I it's like I was then able to start 139 straight games and um and you know be there for my team. That's what that's what it mattered. That's what mattered to me. I'm I wanted to be out there, I wanted to be able to, like I said, if the defense is on the field, I wanted to be on the field on the football film.
SPEAKER_02That's interesting because I feel like defensive guys, regardless of sport, or a diff are a different breed. So I played defense in lacrosse, and my brother Brian played offense. And our mindset for what it means to be successful in a game or like what our role is from a team perspective are polar opposite views of the world. You know, defense is it's a great day if nothing happens, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Right, right.
SPEAKER_02So if it's zero, you're the greatest defensive player of all time. Offense, you need to score and do things, and that requires a different personality. And it's interesting because Brian's like the greatest sales guy that ever lived, which directly translates to being an offensive scorer. I guess it would be similar to like a wide receiver in football. Right. You know what I'm saying? Yep. Um and then I was a close defenseman, so it was like my job was to prevent people from scoring. Right. And I think having a defensive mindset has really helped me in business because you know, there's this really interesting personality test. It's called the PRF. It maps out all the personality traits or like the core traits that make you you. It maps it as a percentile to everyone that's ever taken it. Under 30 for the score is extreme, over 70 is extreme. So it doesn't matter if it's 73 or 100, yeah, extreme personality trait. So all of my personality traits except for one are extreme. So they're either below 30 or over 70. One of which is social recognition, it's like an eight. So I have no need or desire at all for anybody to be like, hey man, you're doing a great job. It actually kind of makes me uncomfortable. And I think that comes back to the defensive thing where it's just like, let me fucking do my thing.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Just let me stop this guy from doing stuff. Let me break his arm if I need to do it, let me fight if I need to fight, and just shut the fuck up. You know, like leave me alone.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well, really, I mean, I I'd say, man, hell, you you'd have made a great mindset for an offensive lineman. Because I mean, it's like if you don't need any recognition, I mean, those dudes just put their face on people all day while the you know receivers and running backs score all the touchdowns and get all the attention. So, I mean, hell, that you you would have been fitting great in the old line room.
SPEAKER_02That's true. I'm not big enough for O lie. I may have. What do you think? What what position could I have played?
SPEAKER_01I mean, you're Jack, you're athletic. I mean, get you out of tackle, man. Get you out of tackle, and you mean what do we have? That's a that's the big money position, too. I mean, you can't.
SPEAKER_02What do we got? An over over 40 league where I can you can teach me the ways? That that let's do it. Let's find there's gotta be one, right? I'm gonna start, I'm gonna start a fourth career. There we go. So um not many well, a lot of players try, but not many are successful going from player to coach. You seem to be doing a good job and you're passionate about it. What do you think is the reason? One, that you want to be a coach, and then two, why do you think you're good at it?
SPEAKER_01Well, I want to be a coach because and it's ironic that I in some ways that I that I have that I did become a coach because for probably the first eight years of my playing career, I was like a hard no against coaching. People like, oh, you get into coaching, you should get into coaching later. And it was like, oh, no way. But because I had a lot of coaches throughout the early part of my career that they were sleeping at the facility. They were, you know, kind of some of them. Well, I had one coach that used to brag that I'm not, you know, it's oh, it's Thursday. You know what that means? I actually get to shower today. And it's like, you you don't have time to shower between, you know, until Thursday league. I mean, that seems a little, I mean, that seems a little subjective, but you know, but nonetheless, but they just kind of didn't model a lifestyle that really looked, you know, attractive. But then as he got older, you know, you you start seeing coaches model it a different way, and guys that are, you know, able to, you know, you see them with their families, you see them, you know, living, you know, normal lives outside of the building as well. And that's so it became more attractive. But also in those years, I had younger guys coming up to me asking me different questions about like, hey Ryan, how do you see this? How would you attack this offensive lineman when he's punching you like this? How would how would you relate to this route concept and in you know in coverage when we're uh you know when we're a quarter flat dropper? And I realized, oh, I like I like him parting, I like teaching what I like mentorship. Yeah, I like you know, giving the knowledge that I have. And so I was like, you know, maybe I ought to give give coaching a shot. And you know, when I knew going into my last season playing, it was going to be my last season, and you know, after that, you know, my wife, you know, she was I give her the credit because she's kind of cat the catalyst for the coaching. She's really yeah, she was like, you know, she was very encouraging of it. She's like, Ryan, I think, you know, you really ought to give this a try. Our kids are young, you know, this is the time to do it. I think you'll be good at it. And you know, I was still, you know, and while I was more open to it, I was still a little apprehensive, but fortunate to get an opportunity uh you know with uh Ron Rivera been back here in Washington after taking a year in Philly. And um I loved it. I loved it. And I I think one of the things that makes I well, a couple of things that have made me successful at it are one, my my experience as a player. I mean, I think having that has been invaluable, just not only from just a teaching perspective, but just being able to relate. Yeah. Being able to relate to guys like I know, okay, it's it's week nine of the season. Their bodies are feeling feeling run down, feeling crappy, and that we still got, you know, a long time to go and hopefully playoffs. So, you know, we gotta I can relate to them and empathize with them on that level. But then another thing too is I I'm I'm probably I I'm I'm I hold I held myself to a high standard as a player, and I hold the players, you know, to a high standard now as a coach. Like there's there's right and there's wrong. Like there, I don't, I don't really like to operate in the that that gray middle area, it's like, hey, like this is this is what we're looking for, this is not. Like, and if you're not doing what we're looking for, like that's gonna be called out and that's gotta be there's gotta be something done about that.
SPEAKER_02I don't know if there's another way to coach, to be honest with you. I know people try, but without a common standard of excellence and consequences to actions when they do not meet that common standard, I just don't know how you do it. Right. I don't like this whole, you know, like we'll let this guy be late and this guy doesn't he he has to be on time. I don't know how you can successfully build people. You may be able to get some wins that way, but I don't think that that is sustainable from what I've seen in my life, whether it's coaching kids, running companies, building cultures, working with you know, leaders of different organizations, it's like it just it seems to be easier if you just have a common standard of excellence, you know what's right, you know what's wrong, you know the rules of engagement. If you go outside of that, there are consequences. Here's what they are, I'm not fucking around. Right. And uh it seems easy enough. I don't know how often people do it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, it's it like you said, it it seems easy, but at this, but if you're if you're not opera, if you're not holding everyone to the same standard, at least from an accountability standpoint, from from work ethics standpoint, from hey, this is what we're looking for as a you know, from a you know time put in perspective, then you're not you your your culture is not gonna be not gonna be conducive to winning. Yeah. And and so, and so holding people to a a standard of like like we mentioned, right? Wrong. If you if what's right is gonna be commended, what's wrong is gonna be addressed, and if there's not gonna be changes made from this end to make it right, then there's gotta be consequences and there's gotta be action taken. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02So um are you going into the hall of fame for college? Is that what I hear?
SPEAKER_01Like, did you get nominated for that? I got nominated. Yeah, I didn't get the I last year, you know, um, didn't I got nominated, did not get the uh the votes votes, but you're on the list. I'm on the list, which that's cool with me because now I'm on the ballot, you know, now and so it's like that's that's step one. Getting on the ballot's hard. And you know what? I'm and I actually saw some of the dudes I was like on the ballot with like last year. I'm like, oh fuck, I guess this can be a this can be a tough road to haul. It's like it was like some dudes like like Courtney Brown, like fuck, he was like the first pick in the draft, but like it was you know, so but now I'm I'm on the ballot, so now I just gotta, you know, if any voters are listening, like like the no, but uh no, I uh yeah, I'm I'm fortunate to get have gotten on the ballot. My guy Adam from back at Purdue got me on this cool back this past cycle. So hopefully I can get some votes coming up.
SPEAKER_02How is Purdue?
SPEAKER_01I loved it. Yeah, so it was awesome. You know, I had I grew up in the Midwest, grew up like an hour east of uh Indianapolis in a city called Muncie. Um and you know, Purdue's out as Purdue is like two is two hours away. It's an hour west of Indianapolis. So I'm I was close enough to home, but far enough. And then my college experience just was second to none. I mean, my group of friends is all were awesome. Like we still you still got our tech thread going today, you know, talking shit and whatnot. So it's it was amazing. I loved it. So where else did you get recruited? Um, I had offers from Indiana, um Ball State, Cincinnati, some smaller schools. And then I got like some I had some interest from Michigan, Ohio State, Notre Dame, but never an offer from them. So it was always like they those those schools like never they they recruited me, and I thought they there might have been interest at time, like you know, might have led to something, but never an offer. So, you know, it was when I look back at it, I made probably made this the decision a little more complicated than it really was. I was like, okay, well, I can go here, I can get a good education, and I can play pretty early. Like, yeah, why don't why why haven't you signed yet, dude? Like, what what's the what's the weight? So, yeah. Uh did you have help or guidance making that decision? Yeah, my my parents and they they honestly they kind of too were like, once once like once like kind of all the dust settled on, okay, like these are these are where you got offered from. Like Michigan, Ohio State, Notre Dame, like these bigger, you know, the some of the like bigger, you know, blue bloods, like they're interested, but they're they haven't offered, so they're not that interested. Like, like, like you gotta seems like you got a good thing at Purdue, man. Like, why don't you why don't you go there? And and you know, so it was it it really like I said, I made the decision tougher than it was, but it was you know, it was a great decision to make.
SPEAKER_02So consistency, um a lot of starts, a lot of snaps. It seems that you're very consistent. What is your I'm trying to teach my kids right now the pre-game routine and the pre-practice mental preparation mindset of like what needs to happen the night before a game, the day of the game, uh going into the game. What is your preparation process so that you were able to show up every single day in every single game at an elite level? Did you have anything?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so I I mean it really was it was a seven-day thing, like to sit to call to for if I I felt like if I was gonna say, like, okay, like this is what I did every Sunday, so I was ready to play in that game, it was I feel like I would be cheating. It was like, no, this is what I did on Monday. This is what I did on Tuesday. So no, it was it was really it was really just holding myself to a standard every day of okay, like what did I do to make myself better than the guy I'm going against on Sunday? It's like, okay, like well, this breakfast, I had this which was healthy, I had this which was healthy, I had this which was healthy, and blah, blah, blah. I didn't have anything that was bad. Bam, I beat him at breakfast. And then, okay, what am I doing to recover on Monday? Okay, well, I'd I made sure I foam rolled this. I made sure I, you know, did some tissue release on that. I got a good activation, I got a good stretch, I got my squat in, you know, to get recovery. And to get stronger, bam, I beat him at my at the recovery. And then, and so I just played, I played that mental game with myself a lot, just to like, like, okay, I'm we're playing against the the cowboys this week. Okay, like I'm just kept I everything I did was like, okay, well, I'm do I'm competing with my with with the with their offensive linemen in this, in breakfast, and lunch, and dinner. And I know that sounds Micah's you know psychopath kind of thing, but that's how that's how I approached it, because I was like, okay, like if I'm just thinking I'm gonna go out there on Sunday and just you know be better than him, it's like, no, like I gotta beat him at everything. And then it was like, okay, well, then you take it to practice, then you take it to you know walkthroughs and film sessions and studying and and you know, and getting getting ready from uh you know from my notes. And so it was it was it was a seven-day thing. Obsessional desire. Yeah, I I I was you know obsessed. I was maniacal. I you know, when it came to pre when came to preparation, okay, it's it's nine o'clock. All right, well, lights need to be off, and you know, I might not be asleep, but I need to be, you know, getting myself ready to sleep. And um, well, you're not that tired. Well, you you still need to get to sleep. And and uh or it's hey, it's it's 7 30. Have you had your have you had your eighth meal of the day because you gotta maintain your mass? Like, and and so I just I was maniacal about preparation and um when it when I when that when it actually got to Sunday, I my on Sunday morning, I just was trying to just keep myself like I did I tried to make my make sure physically I was ready, but mentally I just tried to make make sure my mind was calm and in a good place because if you know I I know that like the anxiety and the buildup for an NFL football game is was all was always a lot, and so I just tried to make myself as calm as possible, and then so that when that after that first play, when the first play was there, I was just ready to just just roll at that point.
SPEAKER_02Dude, that's so funny. So again, lacrosse is not football, it's not even close. Um, but I had a very similar situation in terms of like I wanted to be an all-American in college, and like everything I said, this is what all Americans do. This is what all Americans do. Like we were in a run test, and it was I was a freshman and it was a five-mile run test. I had never run fucking five miles before. I I I can't run that. And I was like, and they're like, all right, we're ranking every dude on the team on this five-mile run test. We're like in the middle of cornfields, and I'm like, oh shit. Like I had worked construction all summer, like I was not fucking prepared. So I just like started telling myself, like, this is what this is what all Americans do. And I just repeated it in my head like a fucking crackhead. Yeah. And the next thing I know, I finished third on the in the entire team on that. Yeah. And I carried that through. And the same thing on the day of games, I would wake up so fucking juiced that I would have to listen to like Enya and David Gray to calm the fuck down. Right. Because I would wake up just like tweaking out. Yeah. And I could not lose all of that rage before game time. Right. And I was just like, how can I keep this bottled up? Yeah. You know, like other dudes are listening to death metal fucking jacking each other up in the locker. I'm like, I need to contain all of this so I don't lose it.
SPEAKER_01No, yeah, for sure. Like I like people always, oh, what's your what pregame song gets you would would you listen to to get you going? And I would, it would be like a Zach Brown song, like a like a real like, you know, chill. And because it's like, like if I if I'm listening to something that's gonna like, you know, try to, you know, spike my adrenaline, but not like I'm gonna be worn out after three plays. And and and but you bring up the you know, you you repeat that mantra, you're repeating yourself, this is what all American does, this is what all American does. And when when you want to be great at something, like you that you gotta, you gotta take yourself to those weird spaces. Like mentally, like you gotta, you gotta like me, I I can understand that me saying I'm competing with a offensive lineman at breakfast or competing with him on you know a Wednesday. Oh, hey and I okay, I had a good film session. Okay, I beat him at the film session. Like, I know that sounds might c sound crazy, but that's the those are the spaces you have to you have you have you have to go there. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And it's the same with building a business, and it's the same with anything that you want to do where you're trying to be elite. Yeah, everybody wants to be successful. Everyone, everyone wants to be rich, everybody wants to be fit, everybody wants to write a great book and have a million bucks and do this and do that. And so you go, okay. So if everybody wants the same goals that I have, how am I actually going to accomplish them? And it's these little things that compound on themselves of like, and I tell my kids this all the time. I don't want to wake up at four in the morning. I don't, but I do because I need silence and I write my goals out and I meditate and I read and I write, and I make them get up at five and we read and we write, and then we go take an ice bath. Does anybody want to get in an ice bath? No, I've been doing it for I don't know how long, seven years, maybe uh-huh. It never gets warmer. No, it's never gonna get warmer, right? But that is a mental battle with myself. I'm fucking getting in that thing because those little decisions of you're beating the offensive lineman at breakfast, or I'm in a battle with my weaker self to get into an ice bath, those little wins, no doubt, that's a muscle. You're building a muscle in your brain, right? And that those are the habits that I want to teach my kids. It's not that I want to teach them to be good at sports. Sports is the greatest area where there's immediate results, there's uh manufactured adversity, there's uh there are haters, there's politics, there's blood, there's sweat, there's tears, uh hopefully no one dies. But like, can you get better? Can you figure out a way to get on the field? Can you get on the field and make an impact? Can you be a good team player? Do you have the capacity to lead? What are all your weaknesses? Can you fix the weaknesses? Can you turn those weaknesses into strengths? If not, can you make the strength so strong no one cares about your weaknesses? And then once you figure that little template out, this little mastery of a subject, can you then take that and replicate it in something else in your life? And you know, I'll hear parents go, Well, I don't care if my kids good at sports. Yeah, I don't care if they're good at sports, but I do care if they are dedicated to being the best versions of themselves in something that they chose to be in. Because why why are we gonna wait? Like, I don't need to fucking drive to Northern Virginia or Pennsylvania or any of these places for games if you are not gonna beat the offensive line at breakfast. Right now, if you are gonna do that, I will drive to the ends of the earth if you were my child. Right. Because we're gonna see what you're made of. And I just there's not many things and I'm open to hearing from anybody out in the uh ether show me something that is gonna expose you in a more public setting than sports.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, it's there's nothing like it. I mean, you get there, you get immediate feedback in sports. It's like, hey, this went great, hey, this went horribly. Like, oh, this hurt. I don't I don't want to do that again. Or, you know, and you get you get to learn so much, you get to learn to deal with adversity, like you said. Like, you know, my my daughter, bless her heart, yeah, yeah, she's playing a soccer game the other day, took a ball off the face, and she didn't want to get back in there. She did, and and in fact, we had she didn't, she really, really didn't want to get back in there. And my wife had to kind of my wife was a college soccer player, and so she was kind of, you know, kind of like, you know, like what the hell? Like, you know, like that, yeah, that happens. It sucks, but like you gotta like this is part of sports. This is part of you know, life and a you know, you that you'll find in a grander scheme. Like, you're gonna get hit in the face, like there's gonna be adversity in life, but you gotta keep moving through it. And bless her heart, she didn't have. I mean, when I saw her after the game, they I was like, Well, where'd you get hit? I don't see a don't see a mark, so thankfully, but you know, it's it I thought it was just such a great teaching moment that she, you know, you're able to that she got hit, like didn't like probably didn't handle it the best in the moment, but then it was a good opportunity for us as a parent to be like, hey, like that's gonna happen in sports. That's no matter what you're playing, like there's gonna be something that negatively happens, whether it's a physical thing, like you taking one off the dome, or it's or you know, you losing a you losing a game, like, but like how are you gonna respond when that adversity hits? And that's what we're loving about sports right now for for our kids is that it's it's giving us giving us teachable moments as parents. It's like so many teachable moments. Like here's an like here, like I use the negative example now, but then like I think of a positive one uh from a you know a game last night that I had with my other daughter in softball. It's like she was having tough, you know, tough time hitting the ball and you know, kind of swinging and missing and whatnot. And I told her, hey, I after you know two pitches, I told her, hey, like take a step out, you know, kind of gather yourself, like adjust your hair, maybe the hair's in your face. She does that, bam, gets a hit. And it's like, all right, like you like like see, like you just sometimes you just need to kind of just take a moment, get your you know, gather yourself, center yourself, and then you know, good things will happen.
SPEAKER_02So you have four kids, three, is it three girls and a boy?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, three girls, and then up are my son. Yep. Yep, yep. And what are the ages? Uh seven, five, four, and two. So nice. Yeah, they're uh we for a for a brief blip in time, we were four under four. Like for about a month, we were four under four. So they're yeah, they're uh they're awesome, they're a fun crew, they're lively as all hell. They're it's the the house is as loud, it's fun, it's it's uh it's it's it's awesome. That's amazing. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So as a dad, um in having daughters, right? Because your first one was a girl, my first one was a girl. I felt like God gave me a girl first because I needed to be softened up a little bit. Oh, really? Um what have you like? Obviously, your life changes in a way that you can't really explain to other people. But like, what's one thing when someone's like, so what's it like to have four kids? Or what's it like to have a dog? Like, is there something that dramatically changed where you can go, yeah, I mean, this kid came out and then this happened?
SPEAKER_01I just think you you just I don't think you can really prepare for like how things change, like when you have a kid, even like we my wife and I always talk about like even from like the time like the for how for the whole pregnancy, like we knew like oh, she's pregnant, she's pregnant, like well, but it's still just it really just still is you two, and you're making decisions for you two. Then that first kid comes and it's like now you're making decisions based on based on her. Yeah. And then ever since her siblings came along, we're making decisions based on them. It's like, okay, well, you know, what time we getting up tomorrow in the morning? Okay, well, the kids have this, so oh, I need to get up at this time, or hey, what are we doing for dinner tomorrow? Well, they got soccer practice, so it needs dinner needs to be on the table at this time. It's like, well, that's a weird time, but that's but that's but that's what it's gotta be. Hey, so every decision is you make is based on your kids, and yeah, and and and I'm we're so used to it now. Like, I mean, my oldest is seven, so they uh, you know, for seven years now we've just been that's what we've been doing. And I'm I I'm really lucky because my wife and I are really on the same page and really like every like we're almost like you know, very like just tele telepathy with how yeah with how we're thinking and like it's where'd you meet her? Where'd you meet your wife? We I met her in in Southern California through uh through a friend, but uh we uh yeah, we um it's where did she play soccer? She played soccer at Cal Berkeley. Oh yeah, so she uh yeah, she's we she's she's been a soccer stud. She's trying to impart that on our kids and whatnot. And she's doing a great job because they're I'll tell you, they're they're little ass kickers on the on the soccer field, on the soccer pitch. Especially my second, my secondborn. She really she gets after it. She's not afraid to put her face in the fan. So it's uh no, but um I'm really lucky because like because just every decision we make is they're like it's not like oh dad wants this and mom wants this. It seems like it's usually pretty congruent with with what we want.
SPEAKER_02Well, I can tell you, um, I tell this to everybody. It's like show me your spouse and I'll tell you whether or not you're gonna be successful or not in your life. Because it's like if you do not have alignment, your life is gonna be horrible.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. It's gonna be fucking horrible. No doubt. No doubt. And that's and I mentioned earlier how she was very encouraging of my coaching career. And so it's like I got people that ask me, you know, like, like, oh, I bet Jess is having such a hard time during the football season because you know, you don't see you don't see the kids until Thursday and whatnot. I mean, here you're gone, you're working however many hours a day. It's like now she's she she she knew like she was the she was the one who you know wanted who wanted this, who or you know, who would encourage this. Like you know, like we're on the same page with this. This isn't like uh, oh I'm I'm forcing this this football coaching life on no, she's no, we're all we're in this state in this together, and you know, my kids love it too. And so it's uh you know, that when you have that that's that partner that really is a partner, it's like it like it's invaluable.
SPEAKER_02I mean, you you cannot put a price on it. No, I mean it's I don't know if this is true, but that this was like through the rumor mill, but it was like uh Rory McElroy's wife, I guess was like they were having marital problems or something, and it was because he was playing too much golf, and you're like he's a golfer. I mean you you met him when he was golfing, yeah, and so it's like if you're not aligned with that shit, or if you think like I met my wife in college and she I met her at my most meathead, wildest, you know your best version, the best version of me, and um and she's for the most part has only encouraged and never tried to change me, right? It was it's always been supportive, we've always been aligned, we are with our kids about values and nutrition and discipline and goal setting and you know what is required to be successful in the world. And when those forces of mom and dad are not allied, when it's oil and water, yeah, you know, that is a recipe for disaster for a kid because like we were talking about originally, which is this common standard of excellence in like what's right, what's wrong? Well, if one parent's got their own version of right and wrong, and then another parent has their version of right and wrong, like how is it how is a kid ever gonna develop into anything?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, they're too, they're too young. I mean, that's a like for their brains to be hearing, oh, well, dad said this is how we're doing things, oh well, mom said this is how we're doing things, it's like that's that's a lot. That's a that's a lot for a young kid to try to navigate. So if you I mean when you got that alliance, that that that congruence where it and even if you're not exactly there, if if your kids are able to see you and mom like get to that point together and meet meet together, like that's that's that's very powerful in its own right, because it then they're seeing, oh, okay, maybe they disagreed, but they worked, then they work together to get to a common the get to the common point.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So very competitive for a very long time. Where do you what's your competitive outlet now that you're not playing? So are you like golfing? Are you pickleballing? Are you fighting? Yeah. What where where are you getting the uh energy out these days?
SPEAKER_01Now the I mean the you you still get it in the coaching around me, of course. It's it's it's just nice because you don't gotta go put your face on anybody and then worry about how much more cartilage you're losing in your joints. But no, it's uh I yeah, I joke. Like I used to golf a shit ton. Like when I was single, like I played during the summertime, I had no kidding would probably play golf, probably play nine holes, probably four or five times a week. I got to the course a lot, but um then we had kids that just yeah, that subsided quickly. And I mean, I didn't even swing a club last summer, so I I can't say golf. Um, I just my thing right now is just my I I guess I compete with myself from a nutrient uh performance and nutrition standpoint. I kind of, you know, I'm I still you know take my my training very seriously. It just it just looks different now than when I played, you know, when playing it was like how much can I lift? And I was a big weight room guy. I loved you know putting up big numbers in the weight room, and okay, how how much can I put on the bar? How many times can I lift it? Like, let's let's fucking do this, like you know, and and now it's like okay, like I still want to lift and want to lift heavy, but I'm just gonna be a little bit okay. Well, you don't need to lift Abby and and whatnot. So um that's still a big part of me. It'll always be. I mean, I love the I love the weight room. That's yeah, that's that's my uh that's one of one of my happy places, is just being being in the gym, throwing weights around, hearing, hearing the hearing the clanging of the weights. Yeah, I had an old teammate used to always say, Hey, we don't need music in here, we just need to banging and clanging of the weights. I was like, And right, dude. Like that's that's all we need.
SPEAKER_02I lift in silence.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I work out seven days a week.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And I have the same morning routine every single day. And if well, I can't even remember the last time I didn't work out because I had to do it. Right. It's like probably an actual addiction. And it's wonderful. And people go, Well, what are you training for? And before it'd be like, Life. Yeah. Well, now I have a high school daughter, so I have a new, I'm like, some dude's gonna step to me one of these days, I'm gonna be fucking ready.
SPEAKER_01Right. No, I've said the same, I've said the same thing, and it's like, hey, I'm like, look, I'm I'm just like want to maintain some level of I can kick your ass. Like that's that's all like I'm like, like I, like I, like I ain't trying to, you know, move six plates on the squat bar like you know, I was once it, but like I'm now I'm just trying to be like, hey, like if you know, I gotta got three daughters, man. You know, like I gotta I gotta be able to I gotta maintain some appearance of that and you know 100% while also battling the not not trying to put too much stress on my joints. So it's it's a it's a battle, it's a mental battle.
SPEAKER_02It is a total battle, and um the craziest part, and I've got a couple years on you, but not many. Your impact to your body probably puts puts us either at the same age or you slightly older than me. But it's like, fuck, man, like something's always wrong. Yeah. You know, like, and you just wake up, this isn't working right, need to go to the chiropractor, need to go to the physical therapist, gotta go get acupuncture, need to go get a massage, got some weird cream that'll numb it. Yeah, right. Trying to look into this. Maybe if I eat this way, it'll heal faster. Maybe I'll do infrared that, you know. Yeah. So it's like you're You're always trying now to maintain the level of performance that at one point in your life came so easy. Oh yeah. You know, you're just like, I remember like getting hung over the first time, like really hung over. And you're like, whoa, what's going on here?
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I used to be able to do that and then like go to a two-hour practice and dominate. Now like I can't get out of bed. And it's like the lifting side, it's just like, I'm just always sore. Yeah. I'm just gonna be sore forever. And I'm okay with that because it means I'm putting my body through something. Right. But I do have like, you know, like beach season's coming up. So it's like, hey, all right, time to fucking get shredded for beach season. Like that's the goal there. And then after that's over, it's like, well, I'm gonna bulk up for the fall. You know, like everyone's always trying to do something. Right. No, so so yours is what?
SPEAKER_01What's what's the one right now? I mean, for me, I I always it's funny. I I told myself when I retired, I was like, okay, I'm gonna lose a lose a bunch of weight and I'm gonna just get into yoga. Cause like I've done I was like, I've done just so much, you know, harm to my body these past however many years. And I say 11 years, but really 15, because you college football's a grind. College football, I mean you put some yeah, you put some tax on your body during college football. So I'll say 15, but um it was and you know, I so when I retired initially, I I you know I was able to take off a lot of weight, but I it was really just through the weight room. And I just and so that's what was your playing weight? I played at about 265, um, you know, Thanksgiving week, probably 270, but uh, you know, I uh about 265 most of my career, and then later in my career is got like 55, but I'd say 65 was the usual usual just the old thick neck west. Just you know, body bioat meal. And I just I mean, I it's crazy to think back to like what I had to eat to maintain that. What did you have to eat to maintain to 265? I would probably eat 6,000. That was usually the floor of it up for a day.
SPEAKER_02So like you wake up at what time?
SPEAKER_01Let's say I wake up at if during during season, I wake up at 6 a.m. Let's say 6 a.m. Get over the facility by 6 30, start my lift 6 45. Um you're lifting fasted? Um, no, I would use when I would get over there, when I play now I nowadays I do lift, but uh when I get when I get over there, I'd you know, eat eat my breakfast first, eat a breakfast first.
SPEAKER_02And so then and what what are you eating before you lift?
SPEAKER_01Before I ate so my breakfast during my playing career was two chicken breasts, a half an avocado, one cup of oatmeal with with uh berries, with uh strawberries, blueberries, raspberries on top.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_01Um why did I eat chicken breasts? Well, because I found out um that I had an egg intolerance uh that was you know promoting inflammation and whatnot.
SPEAKER_02And so very high histamine foods, people don't know that.
SPEAKER_01And so I um had to make that conversion to try to limit that inflammation, but also then I too was like, well, hell, there's so much more protein in chicken, like I'm gonna get you know friggin' yoked and whatnot. And so that was my breakfast, and then you know, go get my lift in after that would be my first smoothie of the day. And my smoothies were no joke. It was like probably two cups of milk. So, you know, two cups of milk and whole milk. And then uh I usually went two percent, but uh um then I, you know, um two scoops of protein powder, peanut butter, just a gob of peanut but never measured the peanut butter, but it was like when you think about actually how much calorie, how many like nowadays when I'm you know, as a as a smaller version of myself, I think about how many calories are in peanut butter. Oh my gosh, it's pure, it's pure calories. Oh my gosh. And you just never think about that, but then just a gob of peanut butter, banana, berries. Um, and then what I would do with my smoothies, add a cup of oat of dry oatmeal to blend that in there just to get again, get more calories. And so, um, and I would drink a smoothie like that, you know, after I lift, but then two more times throughout the day.
SPEAKER_02And so and that's so that was probably like 700 calories, you think?
SPEAKER_01700, 800? That's on the low end of the uh for for sure of that of that smoothie. It was probably it was I'd say most of the time it was 850 to thousand. It was like yeah, it was, I mean, my my they were so your gob of peanut butter was like a softball. Yes. And so, yeah, and and so it was it was no, and then like I said, a whole cup of oatmeal. So that's dry dry. And that's like three, four, you know, it was it was I mean, these were serious smooth, like these weren't like your these weren't what you were seeing at the smoothie show. You're not doing celery juice. No, this was this was a performance shake. And so but this is what I I knew, this is again, this is what you had three of those suckers. Yeah. What was lunch? Lunch was I mean, usually two big things of it was basically basically how they they how I uh how I'd structure my lunch was basically at at most of my playing career, you'd have, you know, they they'd have pre-portioned plates for you at really at yeah, at work. And so you'd be uh, you know, your protein, your starch, and your vegetable. I would just make sure I ate two plates. Huh? Two plates. So dub so it was this double, I'm sorry, it was this double everything. So it was just, you know, it I mean, I it could have been anywhere. It it was probably a twelve hundred calorie lunch, you know, every every day. And then dinner was just mirrored lunch. It just mirrored lunch, it's just two heavy plates. And and so and and little snacks in between that you know, you didn't even, you know, the little protein bars and what the you don't you don't even count. You're like, oh yeah, that's this, that's this, that's this, you don't even think about those. And but I knew I had to do that to maintain 265. Main tune, maintain it, and and make but make sure it was a good 265, not you know, I'm wasn't gonna cheat, you know, cheeseburger and pizza my way to to my playing weight. I was gonna make sure it was you know functional and lean, so again, that I could had that mental mental edge, yeah, over uh my guy with my opponent.
SPEAKER_02So what's your goal now weight-wise? What do you what do you every day you're like, I'm gonna be?
SPEAKER_01Uh I don't I think I'm I'm at about 215 right now. So I've taken like 50 off since I've played, but I think if I'm anywhere from 210 to 225, I mean I give myself a lot of room. It's uh, you know, I'd anywhere in that range, I feel like I'm pretty good. Because when I when I was about to retire, the doctor saw my scans and he was like, Look, I think you'd probably do yourself a good service to lose 50 pounds when you when you got rid of your joints. Yeah, because I'm like my knee was in such rough shape. And and they also looked at me as a whole and they said, like, I know you're 265 and you're you're in shape and like you're like a lean 265, like you have good, you know, good body comp. Um, but like your body has been carry like your skeleton's not very big for how big you are. And so like you're like your body's been carrying this around for you know since college, like basically like so. I think you'd do yourself a good service to you know lose weight and take a lot of stress off your joints. And so I've does it feel good? Yeah, it does. Yeah. I mean, my knee is my knee is what it is. I'm bone on bone. So that's gonna that's so you're gonna get a new one? Yeah, at some point. I mean, it it'll that's a when, not an if, but I mean it feels good right now. So um, but generally, yeah, I feel I feel awesome.
SPEAKER_02My buddy had that on his hip, yeah, and just got a new hip. And he delayed it forever. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And um he regrets delaying it. That's what everyone says.
SPEAKER_02Just as a heads up, like he was like, for years, every time we talk, he's like, going again, I'm gonna go get an injection here. It fucking hurts. And like he got it, and he's like, I'm an idiot.
SPEAKER_01I should have done this so long ago. Well, and that's what everyone I talk to that have that's had joint replacement, they say the only their only regret is they should wish they would have done it sooner. Yeah. Now I know now I know people say like hips are a little bit more easier than just like knees are hurt or are tough. So I'm I'm not looking forward to it, but I know it's hey, it's the it was I like to say it was the cost of doing business for me, you know. Hell yeah. So I like you go back to 2013, you had that, you had that decision point, you know. Okay, like you tore your meniscus and you can go this way or this way, and this is the road I chose. And um, I don't regret it.
SPEAKER_02I got a great, I'm gonna give a shout out to my boy Dr. Chris Good, who owns the Virginia Spine Institute, which is like right near you. Yeah, I know, yeah. Um when you go to get it, you should just call him and his team. He's got a whole uh orthopedic side as well. I bruised my bone marrow in my femur. Oof. And um how'd you do that? Just I'm explosive. Explosive torque.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Just too, just way just way too explosive. That was in the doctor's view.
SPEAKER_02No, they were like, we only see this in like pro sprinters. I'm like, that's me. Yeah, yeah. I'm basically that guy. Yeah. Uh no, I was fucking playing basketball against a bunch of young dudes, and I was just like, you know, yeah, jumping really apparently explosively. Yeah. And uh too much force production. Too much force. And woke up next day, was like, man, I'm sore. Like, but you know, on understandable, it was very competitive. And then like a week later, I'm like, I'm still really sore. And then a couple weeks later, I'm like, something's fucked. Yeah. So I went in and they're like, dude, you're not gonna believe this, but like you bruised your bone marrow, and it's like leaking behind your kneecap. Oh shit. And then it's causing all of this knee. It was it was crazy. Oh man. But I got um PRP and a bunch of other shit. They did a great job. Shout out to my boy Chris. Good. Okay, good. Um, he also, side note, not to plug him for any reason other than he's a wonderful guy, he just uh did like the first ever robotic spine surgery. Really? Yeah, cool. He was just in the news for it. Right on. Yeah, shout out to my guy. Yeah. Uh, but he works on a lot of like pro athletes and a lot of like very kind of high profile dudes, not to mention any names, but like you could be on that exclusive list, man.
SPEAKER_01Hey man, he make if he can give me all that extension back in my knee, then then he's then he's all right by me.
SPEAKER_02Uh all right. So switching topic slightly, what are you up to now work-wise?
SPEAKER_01Um, I've I'm in between right now. I've had some had some opportunities uh uh this this past coaching cycle, but trying to be selective about those opportunities. I you know, I got young. I want to, you know, continue on and continue to ascend because I feel like I haven't, you know, reached my my ceiling as a coach yet. And I feel like I still got a lot to give to the game, but I also uh you know this is uh you know, my kids are only young once, so I'm not trying to um not trying to you know just jump the gun at anything to pull you know to pull me away from them because I'd um as much as I love football and I love I love the grind of it and I love having I love that it's difficult and I love that you know working through difficult things, I I understand like being a present father and being and and helping my wife and uh helping my wife to raise kids that you know that are you know productive members of society is a big thing for us.
SPEAKER_02Well, it's the only thing. Yeah. I I can tell you as a dad that has been through hell in a handbasket. You've re you read my one of my books. Well, what was your quote?
SPEAKER_01Like, is this this guy's real life? It's like every well, every every chapter I'm like, I just like I'm like about to put it down, I'll do a chapter in nine, and I'm like, fuck, like well, I gotta see how they see what they how to see how they respond to this.
SPEAKER_02And Mo worked there uh with me. He was there so he could vouch for all that crazy shit. But the interesting part about going through all of that is that you figure out that the only thing that matters are, and I say this all the time, the four things money can't buy, which is your time, your soul, your health, and your children's love. Like you can rise and you can fall, you can have every accolade in the world, if your fucking kids don't love you, if you don't have your health, if you don't have your soul, if your time is owned by somebody else and you have no influence over it whatsoever, like your life sucks. Yeah, and as an ambitious person, and I can't speak for you, but it was like I felt like there were times where I was willing to trade never my children's love, but I was willing to trade my time for sure. Like I will fly anywhere at any time, I will go do anything to accomplish this goal. Like I will do whatever it fucking takes.
SPEAKER_01That's well, the time I'm sure you saw, I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. You you thought that was the cost of the doing of doing business.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, the cost of doing business. Yeah. I was trying to build a better life for my kids, and you know, you but I think it's very um it's noble, but it's wise also in your approach. Because like I I joke with Genevieve all the time. I'm like, we should have 10 kids. Like if I had known how great they were all gonna turn out, and how much I love spending time with them, and like the only thing now, and the reason I say we should have had 10 kids is like the years that you're in right now, fuck dude. It's like those are awesome. Like the years I'm in now, awesome, still awesome, love them. But like the under 11, you know, like before middle school, like elementary and under, like that shit is awesome.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I I that's good perspective because I even I even think back to like when I was in middle school and I'm like, yeah, it seemed things just seemed like that's when like middle school was kind of where it like things just kind of start to change a little bit, but no, I mean our uh like where my wife and I are at right now with seven and under, like our kids still want to spend all that all the time with us. They still, you know, you know, scream when we run in the house. Yeah, and it's it's really cool. And it's it just I mean, you you there's no better feeling than like you feel like a conquering hero when you walk in the door. It's like I, you know, I come home with dinner the other night, and it's like, dad's here, yeah, it's like the greatest day of my life. Like, I'm the fucking man. That's like and it's just it's just cool. I mean, there's nothing like it.
SPEAKER_02There is nothing like it, man. Holy shit. Yeah. Uh well, this has been great, man. You have anything else for the world to know, or you want to touch on anything that we didn't touch on?
SPEAKER_01Not in particular. I just, I, I, I just, I'm thankful to be on this podcast with you, man. I feel like you know, you and I share a lot of uh we're aligned in the way we think a lot. And I just I loved your story, man. It was, I mean, not only because like I'd mentioned, like it was like it was just a fun read, but also just I mean, the the little nuggets at the end of each chapter. I mean, and I think the one you said that really uh spoke to me the most was when you get to the end of your rope, tie it not and hang on. Like, because you're not like because we when you think you're done, like you just hang on just a little bit more because you got more left to give. And I feel like that's so true. Because it's like I know there were times like when I was a player at the end of my playing career, like when I I knew the end was near. Like there were times I wanted to quit and give up because like when I was in Philly, my body just wasn't letting me do what I wanted to do. And it was tough. And I you know, I remember being on the phone with my wife, like, I don't know, I don't know. Like, I like, should I just hang it up now? Like, this is just not going well. And I mean, bless, bless her heart. She just was able to, you know, talk me through those times. But really, it was that was it was it was that it was okay, like I'm at the end of my rope, but let me just tie a little knot and just hang on, just tie my grip a little bit more. And that's it's an important thing to do in life because you're gonna get brought to the edge, you're gonna get brought to your your knees at times, and it's like like just when you're at that moment, just push a little bit more. Yeah, push a little bit more.
SPEAKER_02I also I also believe it's like that's when God gives you the gift. It's it's almost like He wants to see if you're gonna tie a knot, yeah, or if you're gonna let go. Yeah. And if you're really holding on, yeah, and like you're fully committed, that like at the 11th hour, yeah, at the 59th minute, right, when you're like barely hanging on anymore, and you're about to let go, and you've like said your goodbyes, and you're like, fuck man, like I've done all that I could do. He's like, surprise. Yeah, fucking here you go, man. Yeah, here's the next chapter. Yeah, it's not what you thought it was, it's gonna be way better. But like you literally have to be taken to the absolute limit.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And you don't even know where the limit is, right? Right? Because like initially, when you're sliding down the rope, your hands are bleeding, you see the end of the rope, you go, Well, that's the end of it.
SPEAKER_01That's it, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And then you go, fuck, I'm gonna like now. I got a little more, I wonder how long my grip can hold. Right. And then time goes by and the sun goes up and it comes down, and like you're able to survive somehow.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and it's I know for me it was like I there, I mean, I was the I I was there were points during that season where I was certain I was just gonna quit, like give up during like call it a career during that during midseason. But I just I just remember thinking like, all right, like let me just let me just get through, let me just practice tomorrow. Let me just not not get through. I never I never liked that mindset of get through, but like let me let me practice tomorrow and and and just have a better day. And and rather than trying to say, oh, let me get through, let me, let me get through this next month, let me get the I was trying to get really small, like, okay, like let me get let me have a great meeting tomorrow, let me have a great lift tomorrow, let me have a great practice, and then you know, those were just me tying little knots that helped, and I'm really glad I did because I know I would have you know regretted like hell if I would have you know let go. Well, and aren't you proud of yourself for doing that? I am because I you know, in a lot of like most of my career was was just incredible. Like I always just had all the you know the success and everything is all gravy and hunky dory. And you know, having been exposed to that adversity and having having to go through it and and fight through it, it was uh it was good for me. I mean, it wasn't fun, but it was good for me. Yeah, yeah. Well, you're the man, dude. I appreciate you, man. Yeah, thanks for coming. Absolutely. I appreciate you having me, man.
SPEAKER_02All right, Greg Vetter Podcast, big dog Ryan Kerrigan in the house. Uh, thanks for coming. We will see you all next time. See ya.