TLC ep#1 - Is Early Years early enough?

Transcript

0:00

Hello and welcome to The Learning Collective, a brand new podcast from the Maritime Academy Trust. My name's Mike Gardner and I'm the teaching and learning lead at Maritime. Join me as we explore pedagogy and practice with a range of expert guests. I'm delighted to welcome Christian Markham and Sarah Ryan onto our first podcast to discuss the importance of the zero to three age range. And how we are innovating our practice here at Maritime. Christian is head teacher at Bligh Primary School, where he's been in charge for over seven years. Prior to this, Christian has served as head teacher in both primary and secondary schools for over 15 years. Sarah is deputy head at Bligh and is Maritime's early education lead. She has a wealth of experience in early years pedagogy and is responsible for our zero to six year olds. So if you're ready, let's jump straight in.

mike_1_01-13-2025_134220 1:01

welcome to you both to our first podcast. it's really good to see you here.

squadcaster-6f5j_1_01-13-2025_134218 1:05

Absolutely. Well, thank you, Mike, for inviting us as well. Hi, Mike.

mike_1_01-13-2025_134220 1:09

Well, thank you for coming on. And this episode is looking at importance around that nought to free age group and the work that we're doing specifically in your school at Blythe around that age group. So we shared a report before this podcast from the National Literacy Trust, it's called Creating Confident Communicators. And as I was reading through it. I was just looking at it, it highlights that impact, doesn't it, of that support that a child needs at home in those early years for their cognitive, their linguistic, their personal development. And also that sort of language rich home environment, that parent child interaction. What's your take on this report and what it told you, about the nook to free age range?

squadcaster-6f5j_1_01-13-2025_134218 1:54

Is it all right, Mike, just to take it back just a little step from the report and come on to that shortly. Just I think, hopefully Sarah won't mind me saying this we're both Medway born and bred and I think some of our desire to to make the zero to three such a, an important part of what we do is because we believe in our community and we believe in what we're trying to achieve here. At Bly primary school, I think both myself and Sarah have came to the realization about 18 months ago that there is only so much we can do when the Children have started with us and recognizing the importance of engaging our community from, When the children are born, really because we kind of figured that the more work we do there the more successful our Children will be when they leave us at the at the age of 11 and move on to their secondary school. So I think there was a really I think between us a really strong mindset around being understanding our community, being compassionate to our communities needs. And when I say understanding, I mean, really have a deep understanding for what our challenges, what our barriers are, what our successes are, who our key players are within our local community. And also, and Sarah is much more versed in, much more knowledgeable and skilled at zero to three. But I think my part in it, which was relatively small was basically saying, yeah, I believe in it as well. I don't know, as much about it as Sarah, but I suppose having that kind of leadership between us, that leadership experience to recognize that it works for our community and it's important to us here. I don't know what you feel. So that's, I think how we ended up. That's how we ended. It's part of, it's part of a jigsaw puzzle because it's not the only piece of community work that we're involved in, but it's a really vital part. I think that pins it, doesn't it? And then when the trust decided as a BHAG that it was a really part of their 10 year plan. It all just began to come together. And then, as you said, the research, the one we're looking at is the National Literacy Trust research, but it's huge out there. The research pointing to the importance of communication and language and the home learning environment that our children come from is just, we could have looked, we could have put many reports for that. So all of those together. Just drove us in the direction that we've got to do something. Otherwise, nothing's going to change.

mike_1_01-13-2025_134220 4:21

is a bit

squadcaster-6f5j_1_01-13-2025_134218 4:21

I think

mike_1_01-13-2025_134220 4:22

isn't it? To look at, I was googling around the research to see if there was wider stuff and obviously the National Literacy Trust stands out as a sort of really well recognized body. But the amount of research that's out there around this and saying how important it is. Doesn't quite correlate to the amount of time and effort that's given to it. Nationally as well. And just for people listening the BHAG is our maritime big, hairy, audacious goal. So that's looking at how we are going to disrupt positively education over the next five to 10 years. And this is one aspect of it. Sorry, Kristen, did you want to add on to that?

squadcaster-6f5j_1_01-13-2025_134218 4:58

Yeah, I was only just to say that anecdotally for years we've been saying that our community isn't being served in terms of wider support outside of, outside of school, especially in that preschool zero to three space. That space that used to be held and really successfully in lots of areas by Sure Start and Sure Start centers. And it wasn't until I think it was in it was earlier on or later on last year. Now, I'm talking now in January the Institute for Fiscal Studies. I think that's right. I think that's the right acronym. They did a big piece of research about the Sure Start centers and the impact that they had on GCSE outcomes. And that really just played into, it helped provide evidence and rationale for, around our thought process, because it had been it felt to me as I was just anecdotal. Well, where are the services? How are we supporting our, our parents in those really formative years of their children's development? But that piece of research showing the impact that Sure Start Centre's had on GCSE outcomes, obviously, given that time is now and now Sure Start Centre's no longer being part of kind of the offer. to to our families just again gave it a bit more kind of strength that actually this is the right direction and this is what we should as a school be doing if we want to really, move yeah, if we really want to enable our children to be successful when they leave us at 11. So yeah, that report was also really important to us.

mike_1_01-13-2025_134220 6:34

Answering my next question, really, which is why a focus on the nought to threes? And what were the key drivers? So if you had a elevator conversation at 30 seconds with someone, and I'd like to hear Sarah from your perspective as a sort of early education specialist, what are the keys or two or three things that you said yes to? This is the reason why we need to do this now.

squadcaster-6f5j_1_01-13-2025_134218 6:57

Because when you look at all the data from that we measure children at the end of reception on the early learning goals and their good level of development, which shows us whether they're expected where they should be for a child of that age. The gap was just not closing for those families that come from, those children from more disadvantaged areas and disadvantaged families. In fact, it was getting bigger. And our boys and girls, that gap was getting bigger. So we can do, to a certain extent, in school our schools do a really good job, as much as they can. But that's from children at their earliest, from three. And some of our children, we don't see them until they're four or five. And to make a difference for their life choices and for them to thrive, we needed to get there earlier to support those children, which in turn means support their parents.

mike_1_01-13-2025_134220 7:46

with, you mentioned that disadvantage gap. So I know you both said you were born and bred in Medway, and I think that's really important to owning and understanding the needs of your community. Christian, how. How do you see that disadvantage gap for your children in Belia? How does that come into school when they're three years old? Do you notice it quite clearly?

squadcaster-6f5j_1_01-13-2025_134218 8:07

Yeah, you do. Yeah, you need to be really careful, obviously, because you're not prejudging anything and you're you're being open minded. I think COVID taught us a lot when we visited some of our families, the struggles that they have with relative and actual poverty. So, yeah, we do. We do notice it. Yeah, we, some of our year groups are 40 percent free school meals. So, yeah, you do notice it. And we are just really mindful of Strewd West, the ward in which we support. And we see us, our role beyond, just our children being it, the children coming to our school. And that's really an important part of all we're doing here as well. So yeah, we do see it. Absolutely.

mike_1_01-13-2025_134220 8:44

And that, obviously it sounds like you see that bigger purpose. And you were talking about the GCC results, that part of a journey, but you want to hand those children on to

squadcaster-6f5j_1_01-13-2025_134218 8:54

Yeah,

mike_1_01-13-2025_134220 8:54

in a better place so that they're not further behind than what they were when they came into school.

squadcaster-6f5j_1_01-13-2025_134218 9:00

absolutely. I mean, our overall vision is all about giving our Children choice and opportunity. And we work really closely with us. Our main feeder secondary school to the point now that we are actually starting to backtrack GCSE J data for our own cohorts of Children. Obviously there I left five years ago now. So some of the things that we're doing now and have done over the last few years will take years to feed through. But we saw that with sure start. That data is coming through now, but short start has finished, so he didn't realise how successful it was until it was pulled and was no longer there. So we are doing a lot of work now with our secondary schools looking at their year 11 data and backtracking that to our cohort to see if we're actually doing the things that is required to make our children or give our children the, the life choices that they need and deserve. But Michael,

mike_1_01-13-2025_134220 9:46

sorry, go on, Sarah.

squadcaster-6f5j_1_01-13-2025_134218 9:46

sorry. I think we need to make it clear, the 0 3s, it doesn't mean these children will necessarily be coming to Bly. This is for the children and families of our community, so they could go to one of the other schools. Local schools here. Yeah. To us that doesn't matter. It's holistically for our ward. It doesn't matter whether they, whether the children, come here or not. Because actually and some of the research from around the Shore Start Center showed this. Just having access to those facilities benefits, the whole community in. GCSE outcomes, obviously GCSE outcomes on everything, but they are a measure and they're a measure that all 16 year olds do. So it is a pretty good benchmark. So it is about offering our community that because we know that by default, our Children will benefit and our community will, and our families will benefit.

mike_1_01-13-2025_134220 10:36

Wow. Great. So, so talk me through then the early days of this program. When did it start and how did it start? What were the main strategies or things that you put into place to get the ball rolling?

squadcaster-6f5j_1_01-13-2025_134218 10:49

Well, at Blythive there's already two things in place. We take two year olds into the nursery. And that's a very deliberate decision so that we can work with those younger children and they are those that will get funding. And then we already had a time to play, which our nursery teacher ran, which was from nought to four. So we already had a bit of a finger in the community and an offer out there for it. But from that, we have grown. Lots of different offers and what has blown me away is how many different services are out there offering bits and pieces, all working from this research about how important communication and languages or personal social development, all with pots of money from the government, because it's come out of the COVID pot. That has just not all been linked up. So starting to think about this piece of work and then starting to talk to our stakeholders and networking in Medway has just blown me away how much is actually out there and how we can almost be opportunistic and use their pots of money to support our families here.

mike_1_01-13-2025_134220 12:00

is that your school acting as the hub for that, as the sort of the central point for bringing all these things together, or is it very much a network of a web of different providers and coordinated that way?

squadcaster-6f5j_1_01-13-2025_134218 12:15

Really good question. It is a good question.

mike_1_01-13-2025_134220 12:17

I'm making you think.

squadcaster-6f5j_1_01-13-2025_134218 12:19

I don't know why Sarah hesitated. The reason I hesitated is. We see ourselves very much so as an equal partner. And that is really important to us, that this isn't just school activity, that we see ourselves as an equal partner. That's certainly why I hesitated. Do we use the school's and the school's facilities? Yes, because that's what a lot of a lot of the groups do. The services and groups that Sarah is talking about, that's what they need. And I think, certainly speaking to health and well being professionals, schools are a bit, it's easier to push the services through schools. and go into parents directly for whatever reasons, whether it's logistics or skepticism or whatever it might be. So we definitely see ourselves as an equal partner, but we're one that benefits, quite significantly from some of these relationships. I think your answer to your web or hub, I think so the building acts as a hub. And at the moment I'm The mark, the common denominator in the network for

mike_1_01-13-2025_134220 13:28

You're the spider

squadcaster-6f5j_1_01-13-2025_134218 13:29

collaboration,

mike_1_01-13-2025_134220 13:29

web, holding it all together

squadcaster-6f5j_1_01-13-2025_134218 13:31

But over time, I think that will change. It will become, there'll be more bits to the web and it won't need the one person in the middle to be the central point. The building will be, but at the moment it's, we're at the beginning of something of a much bigger picture that's going to come.

mike_1_01-13-2025_134220 13:53

sustainable model that doesn't rely upon one person driving it.

squadcaster-6f5j_1_01-13-2025_134218 13:57

Would you like me to talk about the offer that is about to start this time?

mike_1_01-13-2025_134220 14:01

on, hold fire on that because that's going to come at the end when we're going to look at what the journey is and what I'd be interested to know is it sounds really positive and there are lots of things happening. But as we know, in education with any sort of new initiative or fads and all the pressures that come into school with funding and resource and time. What have the barriers been? What obstacles have you come across and how have you tried to overcome them in the process?

squadcaster-6f5j_1_01-13-2025_134218 14:28

Getting to meet the right people has been a barrier and it's taken time and working, working through who you meet, who's the right connection in which service or which charity. Okay. that's been a barrier. Working out how to reach the target, the families that we want to reach, that's not easy at all because these are the families that probably don't go into services. And at the moment, I don't know how much you know about health and education and all the services, how well they, and social services, how well they communicate with each other. Health is quite a hard service to get to share their information because of GDPR. And there aren't a lot of health visitors out there. So, families are falling through the net and then the health can't necessarily tell us, signpost, who are the families that need support. So that is a barrier at the moment that we're trying to work through with all the services. And everybody's as frustrated as each other.

mike_1_01-13-2025_134220 15:32

And you said one of the barriers was trying to get to know the right people. So how have you managed to try and get around that obstacle and speak to the people that are in the know or have those pots of money or are doing different things that can help?

squadcaster-6f5j_1_01-13-2025_134218 15:47

Spending a lot of time emailing, ringing up, having hangouts. just getting to know people and chatting our story. And as, as we talk the story, various ones of us, then we, it grows. And we've got a couple of people that we were fortunate really early on in Medway Council who championed our cause. They are, they've been really key to our journey because they've opened up so many doors. And from that, we've been able to access services. Or third sexter. It's not specifically related to zero to three because this is quite a complicated picture in terms of what we're trying to do here. But we're part of the Strood West convening group. Say part of it started from, from Sarah's work and my work as well. And that is where all of those players in the from the local authority charities, et cetera, that's where where those links have been made. And I think having the right leaders. Involved certainly at the school and, having Sarah, who's passionate about the local community, passionate about zero to three and child, children's development and the work she does in early years and having a real understanding and knowledge. It goes beyond just passion, although that, that is the thing that probably. Keeps us motivated. So the, yeah, the Strude West convening group has been really quite important in this because that's where the relationships are have been formed outside of education.

mike_1_01-13-2025_134220 17:14

it sounds to me that. This isn't something you can just passively let happen. It required a lot of pragmatism, proactive and a lot of energy in that effort to build those relationships. But obviously the need is quite shared out there in the area that you're in and in many areas across the country. So it's, once you find the right people you'll find a common.

squadcaster-6f5j_1_01-13-2025_134218 17:36

Yeah.

mike_1_01-13-2025_134220 17:36

and a goal

squadcaster-6f5j_1_01-13-2025_134218 17:38

We were given was about being opportunistic and that is exactly what Sarah's been because there are people who are also trying to be opportunistic as well because they have certain ratios to me in terms of whether it be immunizations, obesity, they have targets as well. And it's about using those relationships and seeing, how you can support and help other people. Ultimately, everyone, everyone benefits. It might not be your turn the first turn, but you'll get your turn. And I think that Myself and Sarah are in this for the long run as well. It's not a short term. You use the word fad and I absolutely agree. But you know, myself and Sarah spoke about this. This is, 10 years. This is going to be a long time, but we have made quite rapid kind of gains for our school and our community in a relatively short period

18:26

So as part of this Stude West convening group, we now have Vicky Broom joining us on the podcast. Vicky is the whole systems obesity officer for Medway public health. And she has been working alongside our schools and others within this network to help our young families. So hi Vicky, thank you for joining us on our podcast. Thank you for inviting me. So I've taken a deeper look into the ward profile for Streward West that you sent me, which is a summary of the area and the people that live there. What stands out to me is there's clearly a need for our families in this location. Um, there's higher levels of deprivation, not only financial, but in terms of employment, health, living environments. And this sort of serves to reinforce the importance of this convening group that we have. What I'd love to hear from you is. Can you tell me about your specific role in the convening group so far, please? Yes, absolutely. In the beginning, we were, myself and a colleague were invited to join from the Metro Public Health Team and we presented with the award profile at that very first meeting. We considered it was a good starting point to give an overview of the picture of the Strewd Rest Area. Since joining, I look after what's called the Medway Healthy Weight Network. So I'm connected to a lot of stakeholders and partners across Medway from all different sectors. I'm in contact with and could sort of invite into the group. There's a case of sitting and looking at, with the group and, and, and with, with the topics we wanted to cover, who else could we invite to join us and come on board? So there are not all of them, but there's a number of members that have come into the group from that sort of, those initial discussions that can add that value and that knowledge and experience and connections with, with the local community. Brilliant. Thank you. And I think that's one sort of key aspect of the group, isn't it? Is that there's so many different people and linking them together so they can help each other in those ways is really important. And in terms of our, on this podcast, we're looking at our young families with children under the age of three. What sort of signposting have you been able to provide for those support services for these families and their young children? So under our public health umbrella, we have a number of healthy weight interventions. They also link into the sort of the best start for life and that and those younger years. Obviously my role as a whole systems obesity officer, I sort of specializing looking at obesity reduction and that whole systems approach to who can have an involvement in that. What we do under a public health umbrella is we have a number of services such as a bump club, which is, it covers that from pregnancy onwards. So I think the criteria around it is a BMI of under 18 or a BMI of over 25. So it's quite a wide window. And it teaches, it's a six week course that teaches expecting mums about food, nutrition, exercise, what to expect when baby comes. It's a real sort of, it complements a lot of the other services run by Patak, perhaps maternity around antenatal. We feed into our Beside You, which is our breastfeeding support in Medway. That's a one stop sort of website and then leads you onto. Anything from online support or a text chat when a baby's first born to help with that feeding experience, to looking up to see where there's a cafe in, in the area that will welcome a new mum who wants to feed and reduce that stigma and that, and that, you know, that, that fear of going out, which, which many do have. We've got fussy eating courses, cookery courses. There's, there's lots of things we have under our umbrella that we can signpost to. Brilliant. And as a teacher myself, it's always fascinating to hear. Of the things that are on offer and the impacts that early health and those really good habits for life can have on the children before they enter school, because we always see the impact of tiredness and hunger and fitness impacting on children as they go into school. So it's, it's really lovely to hear what yourself and the group are doing to try and have that impact earlier, even from birth. So thank you. We could speak for ages about this and maybe we will in another podcast, but. Thank you for sharing on that and I really hope that your work with the convening group continues and continues to grow and flourish. Thank you. Thank you very much.

mike_1_01-13-2025_134220 23:07

segued into my next question, Christian, which was around the impact, but it would be really good to break this down into two aspects in terms of what have you seen so far in terms of if I classes. academic impact, but learning, teaching and learning impact of how the Children you're seeing are picking up on that. And then also, I guess the other side, which is the community, the family, the personal development side of a child. So have you got any sort of maybe metrics or soft feedback that's showing that this is having an impact already or otherwise?

squadcaster-6f5j_1_01-13-2025_134218 23:41

time. I don't think we're at the point of that. to be able to, because we're too early days in the program. And we're actually writing in the process of writing some metrics, but we're doing that in a really interesting way. I'm creating a network of our local early years providers. In this part of Strude West, we're coming together and the purpose of that will be to write the metrics of what, how we're going to measure, because our whole point is that we want these children to be ready for nursery. We talk about school ready and children coming into reception and being ready for reception in year one, but we're talking about foundation ready. and putting some metrics in about what we expect children to be able to do and how we can measure the impact of these groups and opportunities we're offering. So it's too early to give you any hard data, but that in itself is an exciting thing. So we're getting groups of childminders and nursery leaders together in a room who've not been together in a room before. with a purpose to make a difference.

mike_1_01-13-2025_134220 24:41

think you've hit a nail on the head, Sarah, there with it. You need other people to agree the metrics and left up to one person. It might just be that comes down to the very academic metrics, which don't account for the purpose of this program. We're not trying to get an auto freeze to be great mathematicians and writers and readers solely. It's about the whole child and that, that development, which opens many doors for them. Anything from your side, Christine, in terms of initial impact or buds of positive.

squadcaster-6f5j_1_01-13-2025_134218 25:09

it fits in with our school structure, which is all about our children being ready for the next phase of their education, whether it be early years to Key Stage 1 to 2 and 2 to 3 into secondary school. And we talk about, our children being ready at ready stages, so it fits in really nicely with our strategy. Which, as you said, certainly isn't solely academic. It's about all of those skills that are required to make, a child and give the child the opportunity to make the very best of, what they have. No, I'm not seeing any hard metrics, but I am seeing an enthusiasm with staff. I am seeing an interest in the, in the community. So there is definitely an enthusiasm. an impact on people and relationships. And relationships is absolutely key in so many things that we're trying to do here. So I can see that I can see an enthusiasm with, within our early years and nursery staff. It's been really good for their development because it's given them a different way of thinking about things. So yeah, no firm metrics as yet, and I'm not even sure what they'd look like anyway, Mike, to be honest, just, from that IFS work it took, it's taken years for sure, to have, an actual firm metric around the impact of that. So it's difficult. And I,

mike_1_01-13-2025_134220 26:29

research is there is it's clear that these things do a child long term. So we know that if you're doing the right things, then you're going to make

squadcaster-6f5j_1_01-13-2025_134218 26:38

and then money

mike_1_01-13-2025_134220 26:38

headway.

squadcaster-6f5j_1_01-13-2025_134218 26:39

as well. That's the thing. They're good value for money because of the, the improvement in, in economic yeah, in in, yeah, the amount of money raised by the economy of, young people.

mike_1_01-13-2025_134220 26:51

read some research recently, which said something like a pound spent in early years. Or in that early stage intervening then is going to cost you, five, six, seven pounds to do the same sort of level of impact further up the line. So getting there early and not to free is, earlier than most schools can even get there. So what's the looking ahead to the year seeing as we're in January for what's the plan for your school and for this program? What have you got in the pipeline? I know, Sarah, you were. Mentioning some interesting things coming up.

squadcaster-6f5j_1_01-13-2025_134218 27:24

So from now on, from January, it starts. We have a whole offer for our community of something every day a week. What we haven't mentioned, it's tied to Strong Foundations. So it will roll out across the Trust under that banner of Strong Foundations, because that's what we want these children to have. And one of the barriers, but it isn't a barrier, but it is a barrier, Mike, was that we could have done anything because the world is huge. So we've decided to focus it really down on communication and language, personal, social skills, and physical development of these youngest children. So that's what the offer is tackling. So we're opening up. Time to play will continue, which is personal and social. We are starting something called Little Chefs for young children that Medway Council are actually the ones that are the deliverers on it. So

mike_1_01-13-2025_134220 28:18

then to service motorway stations with little chef

squadcaster-6f5j_1_01-13-2025_134218 28:22

that's why we're not Little Chef. We're not starting Little Chef the cafe. We're creating Little Chefs all about healthy lifestyles and living. We have HomeStart coming in to live something called Tiny Talkers. We have Family Action coming in to deliver some work. Another charity on understanding your baby and understanding your toddler. They're parenting courses to support parents to know how to help their children. And out of Bly we're starting a toddler toy and book library. Because our families just don't have lots of resources at home and you can come in, borrow, swap. So there's something every week that's going to be on offer out of here.

mike_1_01-13-2025_134220 28:57

sounds very

squadcaster-6f5j_1_01-13-2025_134218 28:57

So our big challenge is getting that marketed at the moment. So thank goodness for the great marketing team at Maritime who are creating our publicity and sign up.

mike_1_01-13-2025_134220 29:06

and hopefully this podcast for anyone listening that wants to to get involved. That sounds amazing. Christian, did you want to finish on any, anything that you're hoping for from this program for the coming year? Or even into the longer term.

squadcaster-6f5j_1_01-13-2025_134218 29:19

As with anything that we try to do here apply, it's about it being sustainable. And that's what myself and Sarah really want to work on because I mean, you kind of said, in 10 years time and, going forward. So we, I just want anything that we're doing here to be, to be sustainable. And we're learning all the time as well. Mike, we're learning with the convening, What works? What doesn't work? We're learning to manage our own expectations because education works different to to health and policing and things like that, which is fine. You just, we work slightly differently. So it's managing that. And yeah, just keeping that forward momentum. But yeah, it is really exciting and we're just driven always. We come back to that one thing we're driven by Strood West and the needs of our community and giving our Children the best choices possible.

30:04

Okay. So we have one question that we're asking all the guests that come onto our podcast. And it's this. If you could teach every people in the world, just one thing, what would it be? And why? And I'll throw it over to Sarah first. I would teach them an attitude to life. I want them to be people who have a can do attitude and self belief so that they'll try anything that they want to do. Brilliant. Very original thought. Thank you very much. And Christian, what about you? Mine's relative, it's quite similar actually to Sarah's. Probably because we work in the same school and we have quite in lined kind of thoughts. mine is, it's probably a skill rather than to teach them something. But it is to make the most of every day. So to make the most of every opportunity. And realize that every day is a gift to them. And that they should make the most of every opportunity and challenge Lovely. Two really nice, slightly different, but quiet, you're right, Christian, quite aligned, views on that question.

mike_1_01-13-2025_134220 31:07

Super. Well, I've really enjoyed this. Thank you very much for joining us on our very first podcast. And what we've been talking around the National Literacy Trust report, we'll make podcast online as well. So people can look into more detail on that. And obviously they can get touch with Maritime Academy Trust. If they. If they're interested to find out more, but thank you both for coming on to our podcast.

squadcaster-6f5j_1_01-13-2025_134218 31:33

You're welcome. Thanks Mike.

mike_1_01-13-2025_134220 31:34

you.