EP11: Playbook For Scaling From 10 to 50+ Units

When you open your second location, everything changes. You can't be in two places at once, and suddenly you realize: you need to shift from operator to CEO. Carl Bachmann learned this lesson as a 12-year Ruby Tuesday franchisee before leading turnarounds at Smashburger and BurgerFi. Now as President and COO of Riko's Pizza, he's building franchise infrastructure from scratch. In this episode, Carl shares his 5 pillars for franchise success, why you should "grow like a bush, not like a vine," and the critical skills every scaling franchisee needs. His dual perspective as both operator and executive delivers insights you can implement immediately.

Key Takeaways

• The 5 Pillars Framework: Infrastructure (people), Product Quality, Portfolio Definition, Gold Standard Processes, Marketing
• Grow Like a Bush: Expand in 5-10 mile circles for better supply chain, marketing penetration, and operational support
• The Magic Number: Keep 20-30% corporate stores to test innovations and maintain skin in the game
• The Second Location Reality: When franchisees can't be everywhere at once, financial acumen becomes non-negotiable
• Train on Your Dime: Test everything in corporate stores before rolling out to franchisees
• 6-Week Investment: Successful franchisees complete full training—those who take it seriously have the highest success rates

Perfect For: Franchise executives building infrastructure from scratch, multi-unit operators scaling from 10 to 50+ locations, franchisees expanding to their second brand, and leaders balancing corporate support with franchise independence.

About Carl Bachmann: President and COO of Riko's Pizza, bringing 30+ years of restaurant industry experience from both sides of franchising. Former franchisee (12 years with Ruby Tuesday), C-suite turnaround specialist at BurgerFi (CEO), Smashburger (COO/President/CEO), and Bertucci's (SVP Operations). Now building franchise infrastructure from the ground up for Riko's tavern-style pizza concept, expanding from 12 to 50+ locations.

Time Stamp Chapters

• 00:00 Why a 30-Year Veteran Chose to Build vs. Turnaround
• 02:32 From Ruby Tuesday Franchisee to C-Suite Executive
• 05:34 The 3 Things That Signal a Winning Franchise Model
• 07:00 The 5 Pillars Framework Explained
• 08:18 The 5 Pillars Every Franchise System Needs
• 11:02 Why Franchisees Belong at the Top of Your Org Chart
• 13:41 What Today's Successful Franchisees Look Like
• 16:33 "Grow Like a Bush" - The Geography of Success
• 19:10 The 20-30% Rule for Corporate Stores
• 21:48 The Skills That Actually Matter for New Franchisees
• 24:42 Beyond Training: Teaching the Business of Business
• 27:26 Why Unit #2 Changes Everything
• 30:03 Lightning Round: Finding Balance After 30 Years

About Us
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Transcript

Rachael Nemeth: 0:00

Hello, everyone. Today on Back to Basics. I'm really excited to sit down with Carl Bachman, president and COO of Rico's Pizza. Carl just learned the cheap joined the team in January after a really impressive 30-year career leading some of the names that you and I know very well, including Smash Burger, Burger Fi. What makes his story really compelling is his unique combination of franchise operator experience, which I'll let him talk about, and his track record of really turning around brands. But Rico's really represents something different for him. Instead of optimizing existing operations, he's really building franchise infrastructure from scratch for this very healthy concept that's ready to scale from 12 to 50 plus locations. So, Caro, welcome to Bath to Basics. Excited to have you here.

Carl Bachmann: 0:53

Thanks. Excited to be here.

Rachael Nemeth: 0:54

So let's just start there. Can you introduce yourself? Tell us a little bit about Rico's pizza and what drew you to the team, really.

Speaker 1: 1:03

Absolutely. Well, like you said in the intro there, I've been in the restaurant space for my entire career, my entire life, really, is even as a child. And um over the last 15 years, I've done a lot of larger company turnarounds, reorganizations, taking companies through bankruptcies. So uh I would say, in some ways, hazard pay, you know, um, exciting because it was rewarding in trying to save something and and make something great. And um along came Rico from Rico's Pizza and says, You need to come work with me and help me build this iconic brand. And my first reaction to him was, yeah, what? You got four corporate restaurants and six franchise stores or whatever you have. And I said, uh, way too small. I'm not interested. And he's like, Oh, you're interested, and you will be interested when you hear my story. So I did. I I was intrigued, and it was exciting for me once I learned about Rico's and the unique platform, the unique product. Um, it was really great to see the excitement of a family-run business that's trying to learn how to scale. Um, so it was a unique opportunity instead of doing a turnaround this time, and maybe maybe my last hurrah before I retire, maybe, which I laugh about. I probably never retire, but um the opportunity to take this iconic family brand that does incredible volumes in the Fairfield uh County, Connecticut area, based in Stanford, um, and grow it to a regional and even a national chain. So instead of doing a turnaround, this is like a startup. So really exciting to be able to kind of take all that I've learned over the years and and and and start something new and fresh. And um, so that was what intrigued me. And uh it's been a great ride first six months.

Rachael Nemeth: 2:52

Well, and I want to dig into that moment where Rico reached out. You've got this incredibly rare perspective, both as a successful franchisee, I think at Ruby Tuesday. Um then an executive at large-scale brands, when you assess Rico's franchise model initially, what did you see that made you think this could be really attractive as a franchise business?

Speaker 1: 3:21

Yeah, I think there's a few things. Um, first of all, the drive of Rico himself and his family and their passion for their product. Um, when you have a founder that is so driven and focused on quality of product over everything else, nothing is more important than putting out a great quality product. It was like dear to my heart. You know, he got pulled on the heartstrings a little bit there. So you see that he's got this unique product, he's got an incredible platform to deliver that product. And I don't mean deliver outside the four walls, but get it through our kitchen process. And uh, you know, Rico was a carpenter and engineer kind of guy. So he he took a different approach to the restaurant business, and he really found opportunities that maybe a typical restaurant guy would not have seen in how you build out the the platform, the infrastructure of the business. So I saw that, and then I saw the great margins and the volumes of the corporate stores, and I realized all right, you got all the recipe for success, right? These great locations, great people that are passionate, an incredible product. And now all you need is process. And so to me, that was that was an easy fit. And uh I think it's a great opportunity to uh franchise this this and grow this corporately. So we're doing both actually. Um and my background, I've been on the franchise or side and the franchisee side. So, like you said earlier, I spent uh 15, uh sorry, 12 years back in the late 90s as a franchisee at Ruby Tuesday, built out my franchise, had it for 12 years, grew uh uh an organization where you learn everything is a franchisee from the ground up. So um I think it gives me a unique perspective. And then I went into the corporate side of things for the last 15 years doing these corporate turnarounds and really trying to help franchisees and corporate uh teams grow and and salvage businesses. So the combination of those two things and then looking at the great margins and the great volumes and the uniqueness of our product um really draw drew me to take this opportunity and have some fun growing it.

Rachael Nemeth: 5:29

Well, and and that's why I really love your story. Um so and I want to dig into that. Rico had organically been franchising for six years when you joined. Now about two-thirds of your locations are franchised, and you know, you as you mentioned, that's gonna increase dramatically. But given all that experience that you have as a franchisee, when you first stepped in, what were you know the red flags that you saw that you knew you had to fix at Recost before you could bring on more franchisees?

Speaker 1: 6:04

Um structure and process. So I I believe there's five key pillars to any business. Um, and and without these five key pillars in place, um, you can't grow efficiently, effectively, and you're certainly not giving the franchisees the best possible chance at success. And those five pillars were simple, and this was the gap is having process and structure at Rico's. And those five pillars are number one and always number one is infrastructure, which by the way, that's really a fancy word for people. You know, having the right people, the right skill sets, the people that know what they're doing in the right places, whether it's inside your corporate structure or even outsourced, having the right committees and teams and people to help build a brand correctly. So infrastructure, you know, the most important asset you have is people. Uh, I've always believed in that. And uh, so infrastructure first. Second, taste and quality of product. Um, so again, we knew I knew we had taste and quality product. I knew we were lacking in infrastructure. We needed people, we needed organizational skills put put to the test. Um, step three for me in this pillars uh of the five pillars would be really defining the portfolio. So understanding um the platform, the real estate site selection, um, inside the four walls, you know, brand, brand equity, et cetera, outside the four walls. So really defining your portfolio and who your who your consumer is from that portfolio. Step four is probably the biggest one that was a challenge or an opportunity here for Rico's was putting process in place. So I call it gold standards. But in order to deliver gold standards, you have to have systems that you can execute over and over again to get consistency. But we want to make sure the same experience you have in Stanford, Connecticut, you get into Cuesta, Florida, or Burlington, Vermont, or um Naples, Florida, where we're opening soon. Um, so it's really important that we have gold standard processes to deliver on execution and consistency. And then the fifth pillar is when you've completed one through four, and you do it simultaneously, but when you really have structure in place, uh, tell the world, which is your marketing approach. So, how do you tell the world about who we are and what makes us different and what makes us unique? And always say, how do you punch above your weight? You know, and that's kind of step five. So those five pillars is the structure that I've put in place here at Rico's, and that's what was really the opportunity here.

Rachael Nemeth: 8:32

Hmm. Well, and I I hear this a lot from leaders in your position, that this, you know, executive operational role that people always come first. With that in mind, though, when you think about people, where does the franchisee fit into that? Is that more in the process, in the marketing, or as is that top of the food chain also?

Speaker 1: 8:56

I think it's top of the food chain, but I think I think the most important thing to define is all the little details before you really grow and expand at a rapid rate. So I think it's a responsibility of the franchise or I always say to the franchisee, let us figure this out on our dime so that we've figured out how to do it right, how to execute it, so that you can go in and just execute your systems and processes, right? So to me, that's putting that franchisee on a pedestal. We don't grow exponentially fast without great franchisees. And franchisees can't be successful if we give them a product or a process that's not complete. So to me, um, I would put them the highest on the totem pole, right? It's almost like you take uh, you know, you take a corporate pyramid and flip it upside down because the most important position to me is the general manager in the restaurant business, number one. And the franchisee, a lot of the time is the operator, the general manager, especially in the beginning, or they're hiring key, key people to do that for them. So to me, those are the probably the the top of the food chain, so to speak, and really making sure that we have process in place so that we can support uh them and allow them to focus on one thing and one thing only, and that's taking care of guests and executing the restaurant.

Rachael Nemeth: 10:16

Well, and I would imagine that there's a lot of I think there's a lot of franchisers who would agree with you. What I'm curious about is based on, you know, you've been in the industry for over 30 years doing this. What changes have you seen in the franchisee profile? Is it the same as it ever was, or is there a different kind of franchisee profile that's emerged today in the 21st century that maybe was different, you know, 20 years ago?

Speaker 1: 10:47

Yeah, I think I think there's probably both. There's probably still a lot of the same type people trying to franchise. But I think the ones that are most successful understand that you're buying a brand. Um, and and if you're buying a brand, use the brand, use the systems, use the support. Um, when a franchisee comes and tries to reinvent the wheel, then they usually struggle. And they're and they're very entrepreneurial. So their their habit is or their intention is to do the right thing, but they tend to want to do things and be creative on their own. And as a result of that, they make they may take missteps and sometimes big missteps. Um, whereas if a good corporate structure, we've taken those missteps for them, we figured out what works and what doesn't work. When I was a franchisee um back in the 90s, um the most reason why we were successful at Ruby Tuesday back in the 90s, and we grew from about 80 or 90 restaurants when I started with them on the corporate side to a thousand restaurants. Um, and the reason why it was successful was we didn't reinvent the wheel. We had structure, systems, and processes of how a great Ruby Tuesday ran back in the 90s. Now the industry's changed. But and our job as franchisees, and the reason why our founder chose operators as opposed to just financial people, was he wanted to ensure operations and systems and processes. And he felt that was the highest chance of success. So I think today the franchisee world is kind of a mixed bag of kind of those one-off uh single operators. And then probably the more successful franchisees are the guys that know their market, know it well, and they've built out their market. So let's say they've signed a franchise agreement to build 10 restaurants in a market and they're ready for their second or third brand in that market. They know the people, they have the infrastructure, um, they're they're solid in their real estate selection. Those people have the greatest chance of success. So I think a good franchise model blends the two. I always want to take care of that mom and pop kind of entrepreneur type person, but you also want those organizations that are ready for the next level because that can help you grow exponentially faster. So I think it's a blend of the two. Long story, long answer to that question.

Rachael Nemeth: 13:02

Oh, no, it's all right. I I I mean, it actually leads me to this other question, which I I hear you on the personas that there's, and it sounds like it, you know, that hasn't really changed much over the years. There's, you know, the mom and pops, and there's the more kind of commercial franchisee. Has that ratio changed? Were there more mom and pops years ago and now there are fewer? Has, you know, or is it all kind of as the same as it ever was? And if it was, if it is, then what's the X factor? What has changed?

Speaker 1: 13:36

Yeah, I that's a good question. I think, I think there's less of that mom and pop entrepreneurial owner-operator today. I think it's more so uh the second uh group of people which are in that organization that's structured and they're looking for the next emerging brand, or they're looking for somebody to complement their current brand. They may have a fast food burger place and now they're looking for a pizza concept, or or you know, they're probably looking for a chicken concept since that's the hottest thing in in the last few years in the industry. So I think there's more of that. So I definitely think that's changed. And I think the main reason why there's more of that and less of that entrepreneurial uh mom and pop kind of mentality or that one-off is the financial requirements are high and it's hard. Entry level into this business is not easy for people. Um, so I think it dissuades people, and that's a shame. And that's why we want to make sure that we balance both and give everybody an opportunity. We're gonna need those larger groups to help expand ourselves faster so that we can afford to take the risks on the smaller one-off individuals that we want to give opportunity to as well. So I think that's the key.

Rachael Nemeth: 14:44

Yep. The um I'm hearing this a lot, and I want to actually come back to what you were saying about your five pillars and you know, establishing these gold standards. You've seen, I'm sure, brands stumble when they're scaling from five to 50 units. Um, you had mentioned that people is this first pillar. Is that also the most common pitfall in early growth that you just, you know, you you choose the wrong talent, or can it really does it just depend on the organization, which of those pillars fall short?

Speaker 1: 15:22

Yeah, I think I think people is obviously the most important pillar, but I would also tell you the strategy around franchise growth is important. I think a lot of franchise uh franchiseurs uh are aggressive and want to grow fast. We all want to grow fast, and I understand that. But if you grow wrong, for lack of a better term, um, you can really struggle. So I think they don't think about economies of scale. And I think you need to think about economies of scale from a media penetration perspective, uh supply chain perspective, operational oversight perspective, and the cost of that. So I think people should grow. You know, I always say grow like a bush, not like a vine. And what I mean by that is, you know, you have your hub of where you're strong, where your brand is strong, and you know your chance for success is so much higher. So grow there and fortress and grow. Don't cannibalize, because that's the other way that some franchisees will do. They'll grow too much too close and they'll cannibalize each other. And you see that a lot in in the franchise world. But I think grow like a bush, you know, grow outwardly, grow and and fortress your brand. So you grow, you know, you move to the next community, the next community. What I think the mistake that many franchisees make, and I've seen it in a lot of the turnarounds I did, uh, whereas they'll grow one on the West Coast, one on the East Coast, or they'll be enamored by a big city or the big city lights of LA or New York or Miami or whatever it may be. Instead of growing in hubs or uh these like I call bush, grow like a bush, when you grow like a vine and you dot all over the country, how can you possibly support that people from brand awareness, you know, from supply chain? It costs more to get products there and operational costs, you know, getting somebody to visit that restaurant more often than not. So one of the things that Rico's that I decided to do right from the get-go is support some of that uh that we already had in place. But more importantly, focus on growing like a bush, not like a vine. And I think that's the biggest pitfall of new franchises emerging, is they grow too fast and they don't think about the economy of scale when they grow.

Rachael Nemeth: 17:31

I love that. Grow like a bush, not like a vine. Um well, let's say that you're talking to a franchisee who maybe has been growing like a vine in sort of an established franchise system already, and you know, it's someone who maybe is is resistant to change and thinks this is the way to be. What have you seen work well to motivate those franchisees who are maybe, you know, going the opposite way or sort of pushing against the the what needs to be done?

Speaker 1: 18:04

I I think probably the smartest thing is to lead by example and show them, you know, how we grow as a corporate structure. So if you look at it it's funny because it's just it's so it's so simple to think about. When you hear about a new emerging chain, they always grow in a cluster. Always. Why? Because that's where their brand expansion goes, right? They grow in one or two clusters. And then as soon as they decide to franchise, they decide, oh, it's okay, we can grow everywhere. Right. So we're risking the franchisee's success. So I think when you have a franchisee that says, hey, I have one over here and I want to open one 500 miles away, we can point to all the failures in the industry and look at the ones that are successful. And the ones that are successful, especially on the corporate side and corporate growth, they always grow like that cluster, or like I say, as a bush. So to me, I think it's it's showing them the corporate structure and how we grew. And even if you look at Rico's and and how they grew as a family uh restaurant chain, they grew in Fairfield County in Connecticut, and they grew, you know, five miles down the road, ten miles down the road, and they just slowly extended out. And we continue to do that. Yet then we tell a franchisee that they can open one in uh, you know, I don't know, pick Virginia and then one in Maine. And it's it it's it's not sensible, and they they they need to see corporate growth. So it's just logical to think, it's illogical, really, to think that you can't grow the same way as a corporate grows. You should grow the same way. So if we pick a franchisee for a market, they should stay inside that market. That to me is the easiest way to be successful.

Rachael Nemeth: 19:42

That makes a ton of sense to me. That the first thing that comes to mind though is what would you say to brands that have a franchisee-only model, that have no corporate stores? Or, you know, I guess what's your opinion on that model to begin with?

Speaker 1: 19:56

Well, some have succeeded, more so have failed. And I think because I believe that the franchise or should always have some skin in the game. You know, we should always have some skin in the game. We should be modeling the right activities. We should be doing the testing, we should be doing the menu innovation. And not that you can't get great ideas from franchisees. I get a lot of great ideas from franchisees, but all that stuff should be done on the franchise or dime. Um, as I think I mentioned earlier. And I think when you don't have skin in the game, it's very hard to lead uh a franchise-only model if you don't understand what that franchisee is going through every day. So I always believe that a great ratio, somewhere between 20 and 30 percent of your entire um portfolio should be corporately owned. Some franchises, though, that are are franchise-led only, if you look at the ones that are successful, those franchisees also grow in clusters. They don't grow, you know, all over the country, zigzagging.

Rachael Nemeth: 20:55

So this is everything I'm hearing still kind of comes back to you, it sounds like you've developed a lot of trust, but you've also got you you figured out or cracked the code on also how to get franchisee buy-in. And one of the areas I really wanted to focus on with you is this idea of the people development of franchisees. Um specifically franchise owners today. So walk me through who would be like a best in breed or you know, model franchise operator today.

Speaker 1: 21:35

I I love people to have experience in the restaurant space. Um, I think franchise uh the best franchise model is probably somebody who has infrastructure already in place. Um so when I mean infrastructure, I mean they have teams, they're familiar with their low their region from a uh marketing standpoint, but also from a real estate site selection standpoint. You know, I said earlier, location people process product. So if, you know, or location product, people process, but the bottom line is I think that is probably the most important thing for them. So if you're looking at a successful franchisee, they've probably built out a market. They're probably looking at the second type brand for them. I think those are the most have the highest chance of success because they understand their market, they understand their people, they have their infrastructure, they're financially sound, and they understand the restaurant model. So usually those people that are have already built out their first development agreement with another brand and they realize they can't build any more XYZ restaurant in that market, now they go to that second or third brand. So I think that's the most successful model that I see today.

Rachael Nemeth: 22:46

And you know, in the model that you're speaking to is a more experienced franchise owner. What have you found are some of the most critical skills to develop within these franchise owners when they join the brand initially? I e um are there areas that are more quote unquote trainable than others when it comes to skills that you need to see in them?

Speaker 1: 23:15

Yeah, I think I think the most important thing for us is their ability to understand how to execute a restaurant. I think there's a lot of um when you have people from another industry, there's a lot of glamour around, wow, I'm gonna own a restaurant or I'm gonna own a nightclub or I'm gonna own a bar. They don't understand the hard work and efforts that it takes. And they and it takes a village. Um, and it takes a platform. It takes a training platform, it takes an ability to understand how to train develop people. Um so we we always have all of our franchisees going forward train in our corporate restaurants. We ask our franchise operators whether they're gonna day-to-day operate or not, to also train in our restaurants so they understand kind of the plight. What are the challenges? Um, we also started including them in a learning management system, which I know you're familiar with. Um so we we've launched Opus and uh giving them a platform so where they can learn uh right on their phones, learn in different languages, understand what our brand standards are, what our expectations are. Uh to me, that's the biggest breakthrough. When that when that franchisee comes in and signs the papers, they think they they're ready to go. And then they go and spend six weeks training in one of our restaurants. And that's those guys that spend that time and take that seriously, they have the highest level of success. So I think that's key.

Rachael Nemeth: 24:34

It's the brand knowledge that's really so yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me. I I think you know, you think about everyone has their franchise university for initial onboarding. So I want to dig into that for a minute. Um, you said they spent six weeks in the stores, but how do you approach ongoing development for franchisees and their GMs? You know, what does beyond that six weeks period, you said, you know, if they complete that well and they pay attention and they do it successfully, then they are successful. But what does effective continuing education look like for these franchise operators?

Speaker 1: 25:17

Yeah, I think that's a a huge opportunity for us at RICO's understanding as we add these franchisees, um, and we're in this kind of rapid growth stage, how do we create ongoing education, which I think is what you're asking about? Um, and I think again, that learning platform is where you expand there. Um we also I also think that uh it shouldn't be limited to uh just restaurant operations. I think that's where it starts. They need to master that. But I think there's PL review, there's accounting review. Um, I think really taking um training to a next level above and beyond running a restaurant and running a business is how you evolve those franchisees. And I don't know a lot of franchise, uh franchise or groups that do a great job there. I think that's a huge gap uh in our industry and an opportunity. Um so one of the things that we've already started is uh creating a franchise relationship manager that's gonna help our franchisees and visit our franchisees and educating them on kind of the back office or the accounting side, um, some of the opportunities, you know, the tax implications uh of owning a franchise. We can't do that for the franchise, but we franchisee, but we can educate them uh on what we've gone through and and again learn from our mistakes, learn from our growth. So I do think that's an evolving opportunity, probably in every small emerging brand across the country.

Rachael Nemeth: 26:44

Yeah, and and some of what I heard you say is it throughout this conversation is Rico's and just your own philosophy is around on the spectrum of doing it for them and figuring it out for themselves. You're sort of finding this balance between let me show you how we do it and let me take the risk off of your plate. But I really like what you're saying around the continuing education education piece. I have heard this continually from uh franchisors that the financial acumen piece, whether you're a mom and pop or whether you're, you know, a well-known operator, is the number one opportunity for ongoing education. I don't want to sound trite by asking this, but why? You know, what make why does the ongoing development of of the fight of you know being able to read a P ⁇ L, why is that so important?

Speaker 1: 27:44

I think once you get into that second location, I think that's when kind of the the oh no, uh-oh, aha moment all hits you, and you say, wow, now I have to duplicate. You know, it's like it's it's like instant gratitude, right? It's it's instant gratification. If you run one restaurant as an operator, whether you're an owner operator, or the other general manager or not, something wrong in the restaurant, your labor's not right, your food quality is not right, you go in and fix the problem, right? You go in and fix it yourself. I do it myself. Now, now what happens is you've added number two or number three or number four. And now you have to start really training and teaching. Um, and now it's the art of persuasion. It's like the difference between a general manager and a director of operations or a regional multi-unit position. The skill set's completely different. And I think that's the same for the franchisee. Now you've got to understand that I can't be in all places at once. I can't be in every restaurant on Friday night. You know, if I have two restaurants, I can only be in one. You know, if I have three, I can only be in one. So what do I do at that point? And then that's when training becomes the ultimate, the ultimate need, right? Is let me understand and train these people so they understand how I would do things, how I would act. And, you know, one of the things I've done in all my years of being in operations is try to model the right activity. You know, model it every day and every visit. So to this day, if I walk in a restaurant and it's busy, or even if it's not, I'm busting tables, I'm talking to guests, I'm creating kind of those management figure eights in the restaurant so that people understand it, model the right, you know, activities uh so that you can develop these people. So when you get to that second and third restaurant, you're gonna have to start focusing on financial acumen, you're gonna have to start focusing on accounting. You're not gonna be able to focus on the day-to-day operation. So to me, that's where that kind of lever goes off. And you're like, aha, I need to learn, I need to have training, I need to have systems and processes because I need to get to the art of duplication. How do I duplicate service expectations, quality, you know, profitability? Um, so to me, that's that's when that moment hits. And a good franchise will have those processes in place, the training and the development, which is what we're Focused on ERICOS now as we expand is to have those things in place so that franchisee has a chance at success in Unit 2, Unit 3, Unit 4. So to me, that's that's where the rubber hits the road.

Rachael Nemeth: 30:12

That is um I have lots of these conversations, and I think what you just said is probably the most well-articulated response to that answer of why.

Speaker 1: 30:27

Try not to make the same mistake twice, you learn framework mistakes.

Rachael Nemeth: 30:31

It just makes so much sense. You know, you hear this a lot. Well, they need to learn the PL, they need to know how to read it, but there has to be this deeper why. And I think that's why you see a lot of franchisees not connect with that. You know, every business owner, regardless of who you are, even in tech, you have to learn okay, I got from one to 10. How do I get from 10 to 100? And all of it comes back to the data and and the numbers, you know.

unknown: 30:58

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 30:59

And you can't understand the numbers if you're caught up in the, you know, in the day to day. In the day-to-day because you didn't develop the team. So that's where that's where the rubber hits the road every time, you know.

Rachael Nemeth: 31:10

So, um, Carl, this has been a great conversation. Um I loved the arc of this conversation. I want to finish out with uh our back to basic lightning round. I'm gonna ask you five questions. Okay. Um try to answer them as quickly as you can. All right. No need for justification or anything like that. Just a good way for listeners to get to know you. Um, first question: what's what was your first job ever?

Speaker 1: 31:42

Paper route.

Rachael Nemeth: 31:45

Uh what is the restaurant trend that you are completely over?

Speaker 1: 31:52

Completely over with?

Rachael Nemeth: 31:54

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 31:55

Like done with?

Rachael Nemeth: 31:57

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 31:59

Um I'm tired of hearing about chicken. I'm in the pizza business.

Rachael Nemeth: 32:05

I had a hunch that was gonna be the answer. Um, what's the last book you read or podcast you listened to?

Speaker 1: 32:14

I listened to I've been listening to a lot of Joe Rogan because you know it's so controversial. Um and uh I'm trying to think of the last book I read. But uh I I I read the One Minute Manager and Raving Fans all the time. Uh I just read Raving Fans again. I've read it, you know, a thousand times in my life, but I've read it again. And I share that a lot with like my team.

Rachael Nemeth: 32:38

Do you get something new out of One Minute Manager every time, or is it just a good refresh?

Speaker 1: 32:44

I think as you get older and more experienced, um, you get something different out of it every time. It's such a simple book, but you know, yeah, it's a and it's it's a great refresh, but it does give me a different perspective. It's more so fun watching someone else read it and come back to you, like, oh, uh-huh.

Rachael Nemeth: 33:04

Is that the same author as Who Moved My Cheese?

Speaker 1: 33:07

It's uh Ken Blanchard, yeah, I believe. I'm not sure.

Rachael Nemeth: 33:10

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 33:10

Did you write that one?

Rachael Nemeth: 33:12

It was in kind of the same era, I think.

Speaker 1: 33:13

Same era, yeah. A lot of old books, and you know. I've read I just read Stephen Covey's Seven Habits, too, again.

Rachael Nemeth: 33:21

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 33:22

Recently read that again. That's another kind of thing, you know, you pick up something new every time. That was a big thing again in the 80s and 90s, because I'm showing my age.

Rachael Nemeth: 33:32

So um getting back to basics, what is something that you are learning or getting back to basics on personally?

Speaker 1: 33:43

It work or or in life?

Rachael Nemeth: 33:46

Uh whatever strikes your fancy.

Speaker 1: 33:50

In life, uh, I think balance. Finding balance. I have uh two wonderful granddaughters. One is only nine months old, and um trying to find just a little bit of time to lay on the ground and play with her and watch her learn and crawl. And so that would be balance. And it and in work, I think um I enjoy realizing that I enjoy teaching as much as anything else. So it's really trying to teach my team.

Rachael Nemeth: 34:21

I can relate to that. Um last question. If you could give your 25-year-old self one piece of advice, what would it be?

Speaker 1: 34:35

Balance. Find balance. Don't be uh, you know, don't make your wife a restaurant widow. Find balance.

Rachael Nemeth: 34:46

Um, Carl, thank you so much for joining. That was incredible. I really appreciate you joining us today. And um, yeah, we'll we'll see you next time.

Speaker 1: 34:57

Great, thank you. My pleasure. Enjoyed it.