Street Harassment: He Followed Me Off the Train

80% of women have experienced harassment in public — and yet many still feel silenced or blamed. It’s time we talk about it.

In this powerful episode, Julie Waite (women's safety advocate) and Dene Josham (self-defence expert and former bodyguard of Angelina Jolie) share real experiences and unpack the uncomfortable reality of street harassment — what it looks like, how it impacts women psychologically, and why it’s about power, not attraction.

You’ll learn practical, safety-first strategies for handling harassment, visualisation tools for planning responses, and how sharing your story can be part of healing.

“It’s not your fault. Harassment is about their need for power, not what you're wearing.” – Julie Waite 

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Chapters

• 0:00 Understanding Street Harassment
• 3:59 Personal Experiences of Harassment
• 13:39 Types of Street Harassment
• 20:55 Responses to Street Harassment
• 22:42 Strategies for Responding to Harassment
• 28:35 Practical Strategies for Safety
• 33:27 Key Takeaways and Final Thoughts

Transcript

Julie Waite (00:00)

Did you know that 80 % of women have experienced sexual harassment in public spaces? That means nearly every woman you know has been subjected to unwanted comments, intimidation or worse just for existing in public. Street harassment isn't about attraction or innocent flirting, it's about power. Harassers want to assert control, intimidate or provoke a reaction. It can leave you feeling vulnerable, angry or even afraid to move freely in public. But here's the thing.

you are not powerless. Today, we're going to break down the psychology behind street harassment, why it happens, the different forms it takes, and most importantly, how you can respond in a way that keeps you safe and in control.

So, Dene, people often brush off street harassment as just words or it's not a big deal, but we know it can have some quite serious emotional and psychological effects.

Why do you think it's important to talk about this and give people the tools to respond?

Dene - Streetwise Defence (01:38)

It's a massive topic, isn't it? And the statistics you gave us then, that's only the stuff that we know about. I know we've looked at other statistics and there's a lot of things that don't get reported. yeah, it's a big topic. I've done the bystander intervention training and it's good training, but we also need to keep talking about it and look at what's actually going on. And by the more we talk about it and understand it.

the more ideas we get, can share to actually how to address this. And that unfortunate truth again, shouldn't happen. It shouldn't be our responsibility, but we've got to deal with the reality to go, okay, it's happening. What can we do ourselves to keep ourselves physically and emotionally safe, as well as look potentially helping other people if we can as well.

Julie Waite (02:29)

Yeah. I've got statistic here from the UN Women Global Report that says that over half of women say they've changed their behaviour, such as avoiding certain areas, altering their clothing or carrying self-defence tools because of harassment. And I think it's probably more than that because it is on your mind a lot as a woman when you go out on your own, particularly in busy areas, which tends to be where it happens, like cities, public transport, that kind of thing.

And it's a real shame that we do have to change our behaviour and think about self-defence. So we always say we wish we didn't have to teach this subject, but that's the reality of the world that we live in. And I just wanted to start out this episode by saying that you are not to blame for any street harassment that you've experienced. It doesn't matter what you were wearing, where you were.

Dene - Streetwise Defence (03:08)

Yeah.

Julie Waite (03:26)

any of those things because I know sometimes people think, you only get street harassment if you're wearing a short skirt or you're showing a lot of flesh or you're wearing heels or you're looking really attractive whatever and that's not true because you subjected to street harassment many different places, whatever you're wearing, it doesn't matter. So I think...

just wanted to start out by saying that you're not to blame for that. The only person to blame in any of these situations is the actual perpetrator of it.

so I think it'd be good first just to talk through like what is street harassment and the different forms that it takes. So I thought maybe I'd share some of my experiences first. I mean, I'd go as far as to say all women have experienced this. My first experiences of street harassment started as a school girl going to school in my school uniform.

and I have some very, very clear upsetting memories of the way that I used to walk to school. There was one period of a few months where there was some builders doing a project on a house and I had to walk past them every day. And as a school girl, I can't remember how old I was. It was secondary school. So somewhere between like 11 and 16, they were shouting comments at me.

every day and I can't remember the exact words but it was sexual and that was my first experience of it and it was just horrible and I remember feeling scared to walk past the house. I remember like walking to school and thinking, alright they're there, can I get past quickly without them seeing me? You know, can I walk faster? What can I do? And in the end I actually found a different way to walk to school.

And to be fair, my walk to school was long anyway. I found a different way that was even longer to avoid it because it was such a horrible experience. And that was back in the 1980s. and there was a lot of that kind of builder type, know, cat calling and whistling, but it was more than that. You know, I was a school girl and I was...

I was getting some very sexual comments shouted at me I found it scary. And apart from that, remember again, walking to school seemed to be a common one. I'd had people go past in cars, shout things out at me. I was very tall, well, I'm very tall, but I was very tall for my age back then. So maybe that made me stand out more, but I had a lot of that. Then as I got older and I started working and commuting,

I experienced a lot of it on public transport, on trains, sometimes comments, but then also sometimes just staring, like really like lechie staring or licking the lips or, you know, gesturing, that kind of thing. I had one occasion where a guy had been staring at me on the train platform. And then as we got on the train, I tried to move away from him and he'd come and sat in the same carriage as me. I'd got up and I'd moved to another carriage and he came up and he sat

He didn't sit next to me, but he sat so that he was like diagonal opposite me, just staring at me. It worried me that much that I'd called my then boyfriend and asked him to meet me at the station. He followed me off the train. I tried to speed up. I tried to slow down. And then in the end, when I went to go through the ticket barrier, he ran up close behind me and squeezed in through my ticket and kind of rubbed against me as we went out.

Then there's things like, you know, just general catcalling and then almost like taking it up a level. I remember walking down just a street in the middle of the day in a nice suburban area and there was some big, like, you know, these really big thick bushes at the side, like a big hedge. And a man emerged from that hedge and he was masturbating and he started chasing after me and shouting me to go and do this.

wanting me to go and do things to him and I had to run off. I had another occasion where I was walking down the street and a man who was walking the opposite direction, as he got right up to me, he groped me, groped my breasts and then carried on walking and it happened like in a second, two seconds maybe, and then he was gone. And it's making me a emotional actually. I didn't think it'd me emotional because I've talked about it a lot before, but.

It's just a lot. You deal with a lot of it.

Dene - Streetwise Defence (08:13)

Yeah,

yeah, I think as well from you sharing that as well when we teach and speak to people, a lot of people share stuff and it's too common and that's not right. And it's I think is also like what you said when you started. Please just remember

This is a reflection of the other person or the people that are like that. Yes, there's good people out there, there's good guys out there. And that's where, you know, as allies, we have to come in as well and start looking around us and checking in with people and being there, you know, to play our part as well and calling other guys out. And this is an attack on guys. This is an attack on the bad ones. You know, people doing them kinds of things, intimidating, looking. It's like, why?

Julie Waite (08:33)

Mm.

Mm.

Dene - Streetwise Defence (09:00)

that's something wrong with them you know so please anybody listening to this or watching this you know don't self blame because a lot of people do that quite easily it must be me and it's like no if you're a good human being

Julie Waite (09:02)

Mm.

Dene - Streetwise Defence (09:14)

It's not you it's them and that's something that is going to be very hard to address I hope we can and that's going to take time. So like this is what we do in this podcast We're talking about these things to go What what can we do together each other individually? And it is difficult one because it's not right on any level, you know, and it's that awareness and More we talk about things more people aware and the more positive impact I hope we can all make and even if I was just looking around and go

Julie Waite (09:21)

Hmm.

Yeah.

Dene - Streetwise Defence (09:43)

or somebody's uncomfortable, something, and then maybe positioning yourself. Like for a man, young woman on a bus being uncomfortable, maybe it's me just going, you're all right, checking in you alright, or whatever I can do in that situation.

Julie Waite (09:57)

Yeah, think, yeah, I'm surprised I got upset then actually, because you just kind of accept these things throughout your life. I think it's just then when I went through it, mean, there's a lot, there's loads more than that. I don't get it now that I'm older in my 40s, but probably until I had kids, to be honest, it carried on.

But yeah, think let's go through the different types of harassment and then we'll get into some strategies for people to deal with this. first of all, there's like the verbal harassment. So the cat calling, the whistling, beeping the van, calling out to someone in a suggestive way. Then there's like making sexual comments about how someone looks. Unwanted compliments as well. And this is something that, I don't know,

Maybe the people who doing this don't even realise that it's harassment, but giving someone a compliment like, beautiful, or you look gorgeous today. They might think they're given a compliment, but it's very intimidating to be on the receiving end of that. As a woman, that's not what you want. You don't go out and dress nice because you want some random man on the street to say, you look gorgeous today.

that's not why you're doing it. So I think that maybe people don't realise that. Or things like, just even saying things like, smile, might not ever happen, cheer up love, anything like that to me. It is harassment because you're it in a of a controlling, intimidating way that...

Dene - Streetwise Defence (11:27)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Julie Waite (11:40)

you don't know that person, you don't know what's going on in their life. Someone might have just died in their life and you're telling them to cheer up, it's never gonna happen. And then someone trying to just, like a random stranger just trying to get your number, things like that. That's not appropriate just to see someone in the street and try and get their number. is very uncomfortable.

Dene - Streetwise Defence (11:43)

Mm-hmm. Yeah, Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, some of it could be genuine, say some just say a nice comment, but then it's that they've got to realize as well that you, know, walking up and walking past me because they look nice and saying that's from somebody you don't know. I would find it weird if anyone ever said that to me, let alone being a woman, you know, which has different dynamics.

Julie Waite (12:18)

Yeah.

Well you did have

that didn't you? You had a taste of street harassment didn't you in a Tesco car park?

Dene - Streetwise Defence (12:25)

yeah.

Yeah, yeah I did actually yeah and I'm laughing about it now I'm laughing and I'm yeah yeah

Julie Waite (12:31)

Go on then, yeah go on, because it's not appropriate if a man had done to woman what that woman

did to you. You might as well tell your own version.

Dene - Streetwise Defence (12:40)

Yeah,

I've totally forgot about that. And I'm laughing because obviously, you know, I'm not trying to dismiss any of this, but it was just really bizarre for me because I'd never experienced it. And then I thought about it after I'm like, my God, imagine if that was a daily thing for me. It's like, I was putting my shopping in the boot of a car in Tesco's and the car pulled up behind me slow down. And because I'm quite visually aware of what's going on and thinking, why is that car slowing down? I turned around and from what I recall, it was a woman.

probably middle-aged, who had her elderly mum in the car. And she wound down a window down and I thought she was like asking if I was moving or something. And she said, oh, nice bum. And I was just like, what? I was really sort of taken off guard. Like I wasn't expecting that kind of, for someone to say that to me. I was really like, oh, and I just sort of went, oh, thanks. And I tried to process that and then she drove off laughing with her mum. And I was like.

Julie Waite (13:28)

Mm.

Hmm.

Dene - Streetwise Defence (13:39)

really sort of like, so I can't imagine what it's like to the degree that women, you know, experience this and navigating every time. Cause you know, me just putting my stuff in a bit of a car and really considered anything about that. And I was just like, and I sort of sat in my car and I know I spoke to you about it. was like, that was very weird for me. Never had that before. And to potentially have that on a continuing process of walking around, being conscious of that.

Julie Waite (13:44)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And it's,

I think a higher level of intimidation just because of generally the size and power of a man versus a woman. Yeah, it's a different level. So then, all those verbal things. Then there's a physical intimidation as well. So someone standing in your path. And I saw this, I was in London last year with a friend and we were on a very, very busy.

Dene - Streetwise Defence (14:15)

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Julie Waite (14:32)

could have even been Oxford Street, a very busy high street. And my friend stopped and I stopped and she goes, did you see that? And there was a young girl, and a young guy just got in front of her and just wouldn't let her pass. And we couldn't quite hear what he was saying to her. was saying things about how she looked and asking for a number. And she was trying to go to one side, trying to go to the other.

And it happened quite quickly and she ignored him and she got around him. But, you know, my friend had stopped and we would have intervened in that. The situation was over and I think we'll do a whole separate episode on like bystander intervention because it's another topic. But yeah, she was just trying to go about her business and he thought it was okay to get in front of her and start saying things about her.

Dene - Streetwise Defence (15:14)

Yeah. Yeah.

creepy

just yeah yeah

Julie Waite (15:24)

Yeah, proper creepy and horrible.

Then there's like your unwanted touching, like we said, the groping, brushing up against someone, walking too close or sitting on the public transport, following people as well. That's a real creepy, horrible one.

Dene - Streetwise Defence (15:33)

Yeah.

Well,

can I just jump back to the one on the transport that anyone touching you without consent can be classed as assault or sexual harassment as far as I understand with the law within the UK.

Julie Waite (15:47)

Mm. Yeah, yeah.

Dene - Streetwise Defence (15:50)

So the female instructor, I'm pretty sure it was Mary Stevens, told me this, that there was a woman down the underground and some guy got close to her and rubbed up against her. Now, what was shared was what the woman responded and she turned around and she shouted, stop rubbing your penis against me.

which I thought was smart because what happened then is it alerted other people around her what was going on by using her voice and then what happened was other people sort of looking across realising what was going on and obviously there's good people there, there's guys, there's older women going are you okay love, are you okay? And I thought wow that was a good way to deal with that.

Julie Waite (16:09)

Mm. Mm.

Hmm.

Hmm.

Yeah, that's good.

Dene - Streetwise Defence (16:30)

But also I understand from a woman's point of view, it's like after that as well, like the woman in the street you just mentioned about the guy not getting out of the way and asking the questions, it's like obviously that's gonna be in your head and you think I've gotta get shopping, I've gotta do there, that's gonna be conscious in your mind because you've just experienced that, which is horrible. Yeah.

Julie Waite (16:37)

Hmm.

Yeah.

It is, it's hard on a daily basis

to have that, particularly if you live somewhere very busy like town, cities. It kind of grinds you down eventually and it can affect people's mental health and leave you feeling like nervy or jittery. But we'll just go on to the psychology of it in a minute, but just to finish the other types of harassment that people can experience.

Dene - Streetwise Defence (17:09)

Yeah.

Julie Waite (17:19)

I mentioned the staring or leering, then like gestures, like licking the lips or like, you know, just creepy gestures. And then also one that we never had back in our day, but like taking photos or videos without your consent, like people sitting on the train or like recording you, like that is super creepy and just, yeah, very, very disturbing for you. So we'll go on to in a minute, like,

Dene - Streetwise Defence (17:28)

creepy stuff just yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Weird.

Julie Waite (17:48)

different ways to respond to it but I think it's important for people to know there's lots of different ways that it can happen and there's like a scale from you know from like lower level stuff right up to like some of the things that I experienced so and all of that is street harassment and you know none of it's okay it's really not so it's not I think the thing to

for people to realise is it's not about like flirting or compliments. That's not what street harassment is about. It's about that other person wanting to dominate. It's about power. It's about control and whatever issues they've got going on in their life in their head that's kind of come out as having to make comments. know, maybe they've got like a really low...

opinion of women. Maybe they've been rejected by women and then they're angry and they, you know, want to take it out on you. It's, there's lots of different reasons for it.

Dene - Streetwise Defence (18:58)

Yeah, it's interesting

how you said then like, sometimes we process it because it's easier for ourselves to go, oh, that's just somebody flirting with me and that. it's like, because you don't want to look at it as like that's weird, creepy, that's not good. You know, and that's where how we kind of sometimes internalize it like that to make it a bit more palatable for us as well. But it's not, it's definitely creepy, unwanted and it's not right.

Julie Waite (19:05)

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, it's not.

And I think some of it is this view that, you know, not all men, some men have of feeling entitled to women's attention and they're not getting it in their lives for whatever reason. And then they think they find ways to try and get that. And that could be through like, you know, through the street harassment.

Dene - Streetwise Defence (19:48)

Yeah.

Julie Waite (19:49)

Sometimes also people are testing boundaries with you, seeing what kind of reaction they get from you to determine whether they can escalate that into an attack. So that's worth bearing in mind because a lot of these people that do this, actually don't want... They want to kind of do it and get away with it and get on with their lives because they're quite cowardly. But there are some people that are testing to see what they can get away with and...

Can I then, is there an opportunity then to go into some sort of physical assault? So that's just worth bearing in mind and being very wary of as well.

Dene - Streetwise Defence (20:21)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, I mean, I don't know the statistics and it's a difficult one to sort of put reality on as in you don't know what they're trying to achieve. You don't know the background. Like you said, it could be somebody who's not getting any attention from females for whatever reason. So any attention is attention, you know, and that's the unfortunate reality of some of it.

Julie Waite (20:41)

you

Mm.

Yeah.

So let's go into how to respond to street harassment. So we've got four, four kind of options or scenarios here. Obviously every situation is unique and the main thing that you need to remember is you need to do whatever you feel comfortable doing to get out of that situation safely. And

If you feel like the best response in that scenario is to smile and say thank you and carry on walking when someone said a compliment, not a compliment, you know, they think it's a compliment or whatever, then that may be your choice. So, you know, people have said before, is it okay if I just say thank you and smile? Because I don't want to escalate, because I don't want to get into a conflict. I don't want to...

Dene - Streetwise Defence (21:37)

Yeah.

Julie Waite (21:47)

any of this stuff. Of course it's okay. Anything's okay as long as you get away safely. It's not our job on the street to re-educate people in how to behave. Like that's like a bigger discussion for society, for schools, families. Yeah. When you're in a situation where you feel uncomfortable on the street, your number one goal is to just get out of that situation safely. Even though you may want to afterwards think,

Dene - Streetwise Defence (21:56)

No.

Julie Waite (22:16)

I wish I'd told them this, I wish I'd like give them a right good telling off. That might make you feel better, but is it safe? And is it gonna change their view? Probably not, because if you think the type of person that's doing this, are they gonna change their view because you've given them a talking to or a lecture on the street? Probably not. So it's not your responsibility to re-educate that person.

Dene - Streetwise Defence (22:18)

Yeah.

Yeah, it. Yeah,

and that's where you go is remember is, you know, you're a good person if they're not a good person, then that's that's on them. But also realizing as well in different situations, like I said, different situations, it depending on where you are, what's going on around you if you're on the remote, if all the people around you, because you might just be on your own in a.

a carriage on the underground at night and there's only you and that other person there. So you might have to appease them and be nice when you don't want to be, but if it was a full carriage of people, you might respond differently. So it's understanding within the context of any situation you experience is you're going to try and do the best you can to stay safe and get out of that situation. And sharing these kinds of stories as well with other people, know, and discussing it with other women and, you know, mums, sisters, daughters, you can share a lot of knowledge in that and understand

Julie Waite (23:14)

Yeah.

Dene - Streetwise Defence (23:33)

that okay they did this in that situation that's something I might bear in mind if I'm ever in that situation you know God forbid yeah shared experiences and stories are so powerful because you know a lot of people do freeze

Julie Waite (23:38)

Yeah. Yeah.

if you do freeze and you don't know what to do. That's fine. Just like, so long as you just take steps to get yourself out of there as soon as you can. And like Dene said, if we're talking about this now, then you will have in your mind some options of what you can do. So just let's go into those options. The first one then is to ignore and disengage. So ignore it, carry on walking.

Dene - Streetwise Defence (23:57)

Yeah.

Julie Waite (24:10)

If you're in public transport, if you can ignore it, that's one option. And that might be an option if you don't feel safe to speak up. So you need, like Dene said, you need to really think about where you are and what the situation is around you. But that it's okay just to ignore it. It's okay to keep walking. That's fine. Like I said before, you don't need to re-educate people or tell them off. You don't need to feel like...

Dene - Streetwise Defence (24:29)

Yeah.

Julie Waite (24:38)

you're not strong if you haven't done that. That is a respectable and safe option. Ignore them and just get away from the situation as soon as you can. The second option is to set a clear firm boundary. So this could be something like stop talking to me. It could be leave me alone. I don't know you, leave me alone. Or it could be something like back off. And that

Dene - Streetwise Defence (24:39)

Mm-hmm.

Julie Waite (25:07)

You need to think about, again, where you are. Is it going to escalate from that? Are there other people around? Do you feel safe to do that? You might need to do that if someone is kind of persistently, you know, not letting you pass or that kind of thing.

Dene - Streetwise Defence (25:23)

It's one of those ones isn't it as well, know back off as you know, that's a command it can actually escalate situation. But again, you could be nice and it could still escalate because it's that person in front of you. it's understanding if I say that that might escalate it. If I say if I'm nice, it might escalate because of that other person in front of you and then identifying looking around you. What are my options? Where can I go? Where's my safety? How can I get away from the situation? Who's around me? What exits have I got? How can I use my environment?

So yeah, there's a lot to think about. That's why thinking about things before as uncomfortable as it is will potentially help you a lot in any real situation because you've kind of already weighed up the pros and cons and you've got some kind of game plan that you're going to work off and adjust that to the situation if you're ever in that situation.

Julie Waite (26:12)

Yeah, and you don't need to worry. Their response is their response. You're not responsible for whatever response they have. So you don't feel bad for, you know, telling them, stop, I'm not interested. Let me through, move out of my way. Stop asking for my number. Don't feel like, they're going to feel bad now. It doesn't matter. That's on them. They shouldn't be doing it in the first place.

There's like a third level of response which is to call attention to the behaviour. That's what Dene was saying before. This is good if there's a lot of people around that can act as a witness. it could be like, do you keep standing so close to me, back off? You need to stop following me now. I don't want to talk to you. So it's trying to, you're doing that knowing that people around you.

will hear what's going on and should intervene or should at least get attention so that it puts attention on that person's behaviour.

Dene - Streetwise Defence (27:11)

Yeah.

It's like saying, why are standing so close to me? Back off. You could start going, please don't stand so close to me. Can you move away from me, please? And then their response tells you a lot, doesn't it? If that's a good human being and they're just, for whatever reasons, and they don't, and they ignore that and they carry on, then you go, that's kind of an indicator, red flag, you want to call it, is that this person doesn't respect me. I've asked politely, maybe it's then I go, right, back off now.

Julie Waite (27:29)

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Dene - Streetwise Defence (27:48)

I've asked you nicely move away and again this is all personal choice and it's easy for me to say because I'm a bloke I'm a big guy and that potentially is a lot easier for me to say so yeah

Julie Waite (27:50)

Yeah.

Yeah, think if you can, like Dene said, if you can start it out in a more polite way, but if you don't feel like you want to, then you don't have to. It's whatever suits you and your personality and your style and how you feel in that moment. Just do what you feel is right in that situation.

Dene - Streetwise Defence (28:08)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And again, it's depending on what they've done. If someone's just standing a bit of close to you, could you move back please? I'm bit uncomfortable, know, social distancing and all that. And then, you know, good person move away. Potentially not a good person would stay there and ignore your request. And then you go from there.

Julie Waite (28:19)

Yeah, yeah.

And then you've got, we've got like the, fourth option, is to escape and seek help. So this is maybe if this has escalated or it's already a higher level form of harassment. So you might want to, you might want to run off. You might want to set off a personal safety or rape alarm. If you've got one of those, you might want to start shouting loudly to get attention.

and you might even need to bring in some physical self defence elements at that point. And if you are interested in learning the physical self defence, we've got a great course for that, which is called Seven Day Self defence for Women. It's an online course. We'll link it at the end so you can have a look at that. So you...

Dene - Streetwise Defence (29:20)

It's like, just

touch on the physical stuff. Depending on what's going on as always, could be pushing somebody away to create space to get, because that might give you more time and distance to get away, to get to somewhere where there might be other people that can help you. it's, we say the physical response, it's not like a lot of people think you're going to suddenly start becoming like John Wick or Jason Bourne or Bruce Lee. It's like it might be just a physical push or something low level to...

Julie Waite (29:28)

Yeah.

Dene - Streetwise Defence (29:50)

create that distance and have an opportunity to get away.

Julie Waite (29:55)

Yeah, and using your voice as well, like really shouting, this man is harassing me, like stop touching me, stop following me, leave me alone, back off now. If you're really shouting that and if you're in a crowded area, then it's going to get attention. And setting off your alarm, sometimes you might feel like I can't shout, my voice isn't working for whatever reason. I have a personal safety alarm on all my bags now.

Dene - Streetwise Defence (29:57)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

And also, yeah.

Julie Waite (30:22)

and it's hanging off the strap of my bag and I know that I can pull that and that will create shock for them and that will create a lot of attention.

OK, so just to go over those kind of four different options there. So first you've got ignore and disengage. So you're just walking away trying to ignore it. Then you've got setting a firm clear boundary. So it might be saying, please don't stand so close to me. Could you move out of my way, please? And then it might be lifting that upper level to say, stand back, stop talking to me. Then you've got

The third option of calling attention to the behaviour, so this is where you're wanting to get people around you involved. So you might be speaking loudly, you know, stop, stop touching me, take your leg off me, take your arm off me, move away, whatever it might be. And you're saying that in a loud way so that people will look. Then you've got the fourth option, which is like escaping and getting to safety. So you might be running away. You might be setting off an alarm.

You might be really, really shouting and really using your voice and you might need to bring in the physical element of self defence. And don't forget, like Dene said, if someone is touching you, that is assault. If someone is rubbing up against you, anything like that, you are able to legally, in that situation, you are able to defend yourself in a reasonable and proportionate way. So these things do work.

Dene - Streetwise Defence (31:35)

Yeah, we're back.

Julie Waite (31:51)

in terms of, you know, responses because a lot of harassers rely on silence and they don't want to be noticed. A lot of them are quite cowardly and they just hope they're going to get away with it. So they do work. The shouting element brings in attention of other people and there are good people out there. You can't necessarily rely that people are going to come and help you, but generally they will.

particularly if you ask, particularly if you stop and say to someone, please, could you help me? This person is following me. Could I stand with you for a minute while I make a phone call? Something like that. I think most people would say yes, I certainly would. And also if you're reacting in a really confident way, so if you're able to say, to shout and to say, back or whatever it is, or to push them off you if they're on you, that's a very confident response, which

We've said before in our episodes a lot of these people They're looking for someone who they think of and it will be an easy target You're being confident so it should put them off escalating that further

Dene - Streetwise Defence (33:03)

It's like you said earlier isn't it, it's about power controlled manipulation and if you're resisting against that and showing that you're not going to be manipulated or controlled, dominated, whatever you want to call it, chances are that's going to put a lot of it off and stop a lot of things escalating. Again there's no 100 % guarantees in anything but it's understanding that as well.

Julie Waite (33:19)

Yeah, it will. No.

So three takeaways from today's episode. Remember street harassment is about power, it's not about attraction. So don't let anyone play that down. Secondly, don't, harassers, your politeness, your safety has to be your priority. And thirdly, how you respond depends on the situation. Trust your instincts, pay attention to what's going on around you and think about what's the best response in that situation.

So we'd like to finish up every episode by giving you a task or something to put this into reality. So what I'm going to ask you to do today is just think about a time that you've experienced street harassment. Think about how you reacted. Think about whether you felt in control, powerless, confident, scared, and then to go back and visualize yourself in that moment again. Bear in mind what we've talked about today and think about...

what response you would have now and just visualize yourself going through that same interaction, maybe reacting in a different way, maybe reacting the same way, it could be the same and just kind of getting the outcome that you want really, putting that in your mind, thinking through, remembering you've got these different tactics and that should help you then if you're ever in a situation like this in future to be able to respond in the way that you want to. But also just bearing in mind what I said right at the beginning,

that you're not to blame for anything that happens and just don't worry if you don't respond in the way that you want to. It's just about getting away to safety. That's the ultimate goal.

Dene - Streetwise Defence (35:05)

I it's that thing isn't it? Well hindsight's a great thing but it never helps us does it because we always reflect back and pretend we do different things but it's learning from that as well.

Julie Waite (35:11)

Yeah.

Just remember, it's your right to be able to walk down the street feeling comfortable and confident.