Self Defence for Women - Live an Empowered Life

How to Survive a Mugging: Real-World Personal Safety Tips for Women

• Julie Waite & Dene Josham • Season 1 • Episode 9

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What would you do if someone tried to mug you? In this episode, Julie Waite (women's safety advocate) and Dene Josham (self defence expert and former bodyguard of Brad Pitt) share real-world personal safety tips every woman should know — from preventing a mugging to surviving one safely.

You’ll learn how to stay alert, trust your gut, and respond decisively without escalating danger. They cover what to do if someone demands your belongings or tries to get you into a vehicle — and how to prepare your mind to act under pressure.

“Nothing is more valuable than your life — everything else is replaceable.” – Julie Waite

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Julie Waite (00:00)
Welcome to Self Defence for Women, Live an Empowered Life, the podcast that helps you stay safe, feel strong, and take control of your personal security physically and emotionally. I'm Julie Waite, Women's Safety Advocate, and alongside me is self defence expert Dene Josham, former bodyguard of Angelina Jolie, Brad Pitt, and Russell Crowe. So this episode was inspired by a media interview we did this week on a serious but common question, what should you do if you're getting mugged?

and it actually came from a thread that has gone ⁓ viral which reads, I'll read it now. ⁓

It was a pretty polite interaction. Now, I think because the guy that shared this shared it in a kind of humorous way, other people just jumped on and started sharing things that's happened to them and their muggings. And they've been kind of doing it in a funny kind of way, if that topic can be funny. And there's a lot of people on there that have said they fought back and then they managed to keep the stuff. Then there's other people saying that...

Dene - Streetwise Defence (01:05)
you

Julie Waite (01:25)
You know, other things that happened. said they were mugged by a 12 year old with a Swiss Army knife and they actually got stabbed by them. But then they managed to get the knife off them and they kept it to this day and they use it to open their Amazon parcels. And then there's someone else saying they saw someone getting mugged on the beach and they went to help them. And then the person that was getting mugged ran off and the attacker tried to strangle them. So I think...

because there's been all this discussion about muggings and then because there's been quite a lot of people saying they fought back, people are wondering, what should I do? Should I fight back? Should I give them my stuff? What's the best response? So let's dive straight into this and Dene, what's your advice? Let's just get straight into it. If someone's getting mugged, what's your advice?

Dene - Streetwise Defence (02:13)
Yeah. Yeah.

So if someone's trying to mug you, that's antisocial violence. So for whatever reason that they're doing it, you can't de-escalate them, you can't reason with them because they're intent on getting your possessions. That's a whole other topic. It could be for drugs, it could be to fund a gang, it could be to feed somebody or themselves. So for me, nothing's more valuable than you are. So for me, give it up because...

you can replace these things whether it's a phone, a wallet, a laptop, you can't be replaced. I've read some of their thread and some of it is quite amusing because of how they framed it and said stuff like the guy then saying apart from fear of being stabbed and getting punched in the stomach it was quite a polite interaction and you go wow, them two things there, know, potentially getting stabbed is quite a big thing. And so people look at the funny side of things probably to help them deal with it.

So it could have turned out a lot worse, like the guy with the art Swiss army knife saying he uses it now to open his Amazon packet. If that would have been a different stab in a different area, he could be dead. So for me, no possessions are more valuable than your life. That's my opinion. Other people might disagree. I work hard for that. shouldn't have to give it up. Yes, you're right.

But your main goal, as far as I see it, is to make sure you always survive and you always get back to the people that love and care for you. Again, for me, a phone isn't worth getting stabbed, isn't worth your life. And that's where the psychological part comes in, where you're sort of resisting against it, because it's my stuff, I've worked hard for it, and that's wrong, and it's an injustice. So I can understand why people go physical, but the reality is it could be a situation that ends up...

you losing your life.

Julie Waite (04:01)
Yeah, I think that's the problem, isn't it? You want to stand up to people. You don't want to live in a world where it's acceptable that someone could come up to you in the street and rob you of your stuff. And you want to stand up to people because there's kind of a bit in your head going, well, if we don't stand up to them, then people just be running riot, doing whatever they want.

However, you don't know what's going on in this, like you said, you don't know what's going on inside the head of that person, how desperate they are, and how they may have a very, very low view of the value of human life and your life. And their objective is just to, they need to get the phone or whatever it is, because if they don't, something really bad is going to happen to them, or because they're so desperate for the next hit of drugs or whatever it is.

Dene - Streetwise Defence (04:33)
Yeah. Yeah.

Julie Waite (04:57)
that they, their, your view of human life and their view of human life is very, different and they may not think twice about stabbing you to get your phone.

Dene - Streetwise Defence (05:07)
where you've got to look at it wherever you are what the dangers are because I know if you go to London potential phone snatching people getting robbed for nice watches things like that so understanding wherever you are what the criminal element are doing and realizing okay that's the problem that's the issue what do I do to stay safer and that changes wherever you are like if you go to different countries you've got different ⁓ things you have to deal with culturally potentially

economically things like that you know I've been to some countries where

As a Westerner, we're viewed very wealthy. So it's like that puts me in a higher position to be targeted just because I'm from the UK. wherever that place is, people potentially are struggling more and they see me as a person who they could get money off. And they play by very different rules. It doesn't matter on size and ability. If somebody's desperate and they need whatever they need from you, the motivation is massive. So there's a lot of things to consider.

That's real complex kind thing when you start digging into it. But yeah, nothing's worth, no possession's worth your life or your physical or your mental health, well-being.

Julie Waite (06:22)
Yeah, so I mean we're quite clear in our position then if someone is trying to rob you of your stuff that's not the time to kind of break out your physical self defence moves and things that you know. That's the time to calmly hand over what it is they want and focus on getting away and getting yourself to safety.

Dene - Streetwise Defence (06:46)
Yeah, yeah.

And that's been real, isn't it? If you do fight back and that's a personal choice, then you've got to realise the consequences of that and that could be your life. know, and that's the reality. It's not trying to scare them or be dramatic. That's what happens daily to people.

Julie Waite (07:02)
Yeah, it is. And I think, I mean, there are some things that you can do to avoid being in that situation in the first place. So should we go through a few of those? Because it can feel a bit, it's a bit like, right, great. So if I get mugged, I'm just going to give up my stuff. Well, that's like, it feels a bit defeatist, doesn't it? When you think about that, but actually.

Dene - Streetwise Defence (07:23)
Yeah. Yeah.

Julie Waite (07:26)
you have got quite a lot of power to avoid being in that situation in the first place. So what are some things that people can do?

Dene - Streetwise Defence (07:29)
Thank

Definitely being observant to where you are, the environment and the people. So realising if I'm going into somewhere, it's an only environment so if I know there's an area of town that can't avoid.

switched on and plugged in. So many things happen because people aren't present, they're on the phone, you know they're listening to stuff, podcasts when they're walking around and they're in their own little world so by being more switched on to what you're walking through, how that's always changing, that will give off a signal to other potential people who are targeting somebody to mug that actually you're a little bit...

more aware so potentially they're going to pass you by to look at somebody who's probably got the phone there and look at TikTok videos because you you're walking around and people say well it's boring it's dead time I can do more productive things and you go not what's more productive than staying safe so it's to realize the dangers in your environment and also realizing the people around you like we've discussed before what doesn't fit in the people where they're stood where they're moving you know what's going on that you're kind of drawn to to go that doesn't

really look right or doesn't fit in and then paying attention to that and making sure that you avoid them kinds of people.

Julie Waite (08:47)
Yeah.

And I think if you can be present and put your phone away, let's be honest, phones are the biggest issue here because I'd say like 95 % of people that you see when you're out and about, particularly in cities, are on the phone. And so if you can put your phone away, it helps you in so many ways. Like one, because the phone isn't out.

that makes you less of a target for phone snatching. Two, you are then more able to see what is going on around you. And three, you're not distracted. You're not looking down. You are able to be present and see what and just like notice if something is happening. And people, when they're profiling victims, who they're gonna pick.

If you're looking around and you're confident and you're switched on, they're less likely to pick you. They're more likely to pick someone who's oblivious because they can ambush them and then be gone before they've even realised something's happening. So there's a lot of benefits to just going, okay, I'm to get into a new habit, new routine. I'll put the phone away and I'll just scanning around. You're just noticing, being present, just scanning, seeing what's happening and who looks out of place or a little bit odd or off.

Dene - Streetwise Defence (10:08)
Yeah a woman said to me, she'd already been mugged, her phone had been taken, look how much is that worth? If I give that to whoever's listening or watching I'll give you that phone, go and get rid of it. You get rid of it for 20 quid. So people are walking around with this in their hand, that is like walking around with a bunch of money.

So how can I reduce that? Or if you can put your phone away, of course you can. Unless you're lost and using Google Maps, then if you stop, look around, make sure it's safe to use it, and then get a few directions and put it away. A woman said to me, well I got mugged. She got phone snatched. And she goes, what can I do? I said,

Why did you need your phone? I want to have emails to answer and text messages and I'm you don't have to answer them. That's the reality. If the king or the president rings you or whoever, you know.

They can wait. Your safety is more important than taking a phone call from whoever it is. Even your mum. Like the woman was saying about, was her mum had messaged you, she had to message you back. I'm like, I'm sure your mum would have been okay if you'd messaged her 20 minutes later. Or got in a position where you're safe, like in a shop or something where it's more secure, more safe, that you could have replied, rather than answering as you're walking along.

So reality is difficult because it's that harsh reality is you can put your phone away. You don't need to be on social media. You don't need to be answering emails or these things because you need to be present. And that's the opportunity people can give criminals, career criminals. They know what they're doing. They know, know, potentially what they're looking for in a person to target. So the less you are on their list of the tick boxes they probably have, the less chance they're going to target you and they're going to move on to somebody who is

less observant who's got a phone out, who's got headphones on, who's doing this rather than looking around and just being present and scanning everything.

Julie Waite (12:01)
Yeah. And I think as well, if you have had put some thought into this now in advance so that you know that, okay, if I get mugged, I'm going to give up my stuff, then you're in a much better position to just deal with the situation that's happening in front of you rather than thinking, do I give it up? Do I not give it up? Do I fight? Do I not? And you're trying to make those decisions on the spot. So if you've already made the decision that, okay, if I get mugged, I'm going to let it go, then you know all you have to focus on is

Dene - Streetwise Defence (12:24)
Yeah.

Julie Waite (12:31)
trying to deal with that situation and get away as safely as you can.

Dene - Streetwise Defence (12:36)
think as well as looking at that like we were saying the what if game what if this happens in a nice environment where you can think about it go well actually what would it do if somebody jumped out and they had a knife and a white my phone what do I actually do by thinking about it you've got a kind of game plan already you understand how it potentially might react because if you've never been in that situation before you're dealing with even if you have you've dealing with a lot of things adrenaline fear all these emotions and

trying to process it. If you thought about it and you know yourself as in I'm just going to give up my phone, my wallet, that's fine, I'm okay with that, I'm annoyed, upset, but I can deal with that, but I'm safe. Then you know your responses or potentially what you can do in that situation. You know like I just said earlier, people probably done it before.

if they haven't guaranteed it, probably rehearsed it, they're going to look at specific areas where they're going to do it. They're going to pick their time, they're going to pick their person, and they're going to make sure everything's stacked as much as it can be in their favour. So we've got to look at it to stack it in our favour as much as we can to go, okay, it's just a phone. It really is just a phone because no phone is worth anybody's life.

Julie Waite (13:45)
And I think as well, if you can just know that there are things that you can do, like we said, with the being aware. And also, if you do notice something, take an action really quickly. So quite often people say, oh, I thought they were a bit dodgy or I thought I had a weird feeling about them or the way they were stood there was was wrong. But if you get a sense of something like I had when I would long time ago when I was a student who went to Amsterdam.

Dene - Streetwise Defence (14:08)
Yeah, that's time.

Julie Waite (14:16)
and we were walking along and it was where the canal was and then there was different bridges and up ahead of us there was a guy on a bridge a bit of a dodgy looking guy and he was signalling to a guy behind us and just immediate immediately me and my friends we all knew straight off like they've because there wasn't many other people around at that point we immediately knew like

they're going to target us. I mean, we're already on high alert because one of my friends had been mugged twice within 10 minutes. And thankfully the second mugger just said, when he said, I've already been mugged, he was just like, all right then. And then kind of left him, didn't do anything to him thankfully. I just knew straight off, there's just this feeling like they've spotted us and they're signaling and they were kind of whistling to the one behind. And it was just like, yeah, so we just got away as quickly as we could.

Dene - Streetwise Defence (15:13)
It's that instinct that is quicker than your logical brain that kicks in. you can't, you don't really know why, but it's there and you go, and then you sort of try and process it logically and go, Oh, I'm a being daft and silly. That's when, you know, we need to listen to that instinct. And what you said there, he looked a bit dodgy, but also that deception can be used to lure us in. I remember training some NHS staff in Birmingham and one of the women shared a story that there was a guy walking around in a suit looking very smart, you know, and he was targeting people because he was

Julie Waite (15:40)
Right?

Dene - Streetwise Defence (15:43)
engaging by saying you they spoke very well to sort of ask where directions were and things like that but the what but where he was doing it was like more remote was not many people about so that was the opportunity because you know nobody there to help and assist and it was that deception part that kind of lured people in to that sense always a businessman, businessman wouldn't mug people.

Julie Waite (16:05)
Yeah.

Dene - Streetwise Defence (16:05)
but that's

how we address so it's that reality that deception is used against us and also obviously it can work in our favour depending. So yes, not all baddies or whatever you want to call them criminals have a certain look, know, like we've touched on before it could be women, could be any gender, it could be couples, so it's just to really be aware of intuition as well as what's going on around you.

Julie Waite (16:29)
Yeah, it's just reminding me actually of a video we use in the training, in the self defence training, if anyone is interested in learning more of these skills and learning the physical elements as well that we teach, we've got a great course called Seven Day Self Defence for Women. It's an online course. Check that out. If you use the code PODCAST 25, you get an extra 25 % off. But a video that we've got in there and it's...

Dene - Streetwise Defence (16:37)
shoplifting.

Julie Waite (16:58)
It's in London and it's some women stood at a traffic lights waiting to cross and they're just chatting to each other. One's got a bag over her shoulder and then these two ladies come up behind and they are very well dressed. They're very young, like really well turned out. You just wouldn't suspect them. And they come up behind and within about 10 seconds they've lifted the purse out of the bag.

Dene - Streetwise Defence (17:14)
Yeah.

Bye.

Julie Waite (17:26)
and the people that were standing there haven't even noticed. yeah, it can be anyone.

Dene - Streetwise Defence (17:30)
Yeah it's interesting that one. Because

the dynamics of that video is the people they target were tourists so they were having a great time looking around London and like you said the two women that were there you would think they're like trendy influencers because they're what were they mid 20s and you're like no way you would have thought they would have done that but yeah it's a great example of that deception that you know people use.

Julie Waite (17:46)
Yeah, you would. That's what they look like.

So, the other angle to cover is, you know, we say give them the stuff, so you're in a situation and they've asked for your bag or your purse or whatever, you've given it to them. If that is all they want, that should be the end of the interaction because they're wanting to get away and you obviously wanting to get away. But there are situations where they may then change their mind and think, okay.

I've just mugged this woman, I'm on a quiet street, there's an alley down there, what else can I do? And they might want to take it into some sort of physical attack. They might want to think, right, maybe they've got other people and there's a car and they want to get you in the car or they want to get you down an alley or there's some other element then other than the mugging and that's when you need to take a different approach and it's not...

Dene - Streetwise Defence (18:33)
Yeah. Yeah, it's that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Julie Waite (18:56)
you can't just go along with what they want you to do then.

Dene - Streetwise Defence (18:59)
Yeah, it's one those things where, you know, or take anything you want but just don't hurt me. When somebody's compliant, depending on, obviously, the bad person, they might go, this person's completely compliant, do anything. Okay, well, I just wanted your bag, your purse, now, okay, now I sort of...

going to escalate to something physical. So that's the time when potentially you can use deception in your favour to create a chance to be physical if you want to pick to be physical. And that's the severity of it. If someone's trying to get you in a car, for me, that's serious because statistics show is you get in a car, the longer it goes on, the less chance you are of surviving, especially if they take your remote. So you get into a car, you grab the steering wheel depending where you are,

in the back you're at the side of him do you grab the driver's head you know do the physical stuff but for me you take action as quick as you can and yeah that's serious yeah yeah yeah

Julie Waite (19:55)
avoid getting in, you know, obviously you'd have to think about if they've got a knife to your throat you'd have to try and pick your moment but it's that

that is the most that is the point when you're trying to get away or you're trying to fight back if if if it's just a robbery then you're letting it go if they're trying to do something to you then that's the that's the moment when you need to use those physical skills.

Dene - Streetwise Defence (20:05)
Peace.

Yeah. ⁓

Yeah, yeah that's

Julie Waite (20:18)
So, if we're going back to the mugging, when you're handing your stuff over...

Is there a case to say then you need to be quite assertive or confident in doing that rather than being like, ⁓ just take my purse, don't hurt me? Because you might then give them the impression that when you're giving the purse that you are an easy target and they think, ⁓ right, well, I'll escalate it now. If you're kind of quite strong and confident in just kind of giving it them, not pleading or anything like that.

Dene - Streetwise Defence (20:49)
Whoa.

Yeah but I think if they've already targeted you they might see you as not strong and confident. I don't know, you're not saying that you're not but it's... There's so many... because everyone's very different, situations are different, there's a lot of things to consider so it's not quite do this, do that and there's no 100 % guarantees. You could be really nice to the person and go, yes please take that, okay I'm not going to give any problems and they might just flip it around and...

you know, take it to more extreme levels. So it's the second by second judgment on what's going on to how you can manage that person, that situation, as well as yourself to go, okay, maybe I am, maybe I'm nice and I speak nice to the person and all this, because if I'm not, that might increase them because they're being aggressive and I can just sense that if I, if I'm not talking nice to them or whatever, then that's going to push them to the point where they might really physically hurt me. So there isn't a...

do this, do that. There's a look at it, think about things before and go, know, and everybody who hopefully is listening to this or watching it has that skill set to go, you know, we know how to manage people.

speak to people and it's like you know we potentially speak to different kinds of people in different ways because we understand everyone's different so it's to try and use that in that situation that's going to help benefit us to if you give your stuff up they have it and to make sure you can escape you can get away to safety.

Julie Waite (22:22)
Yeah. Okay. So before we go, we want to leave people with something practical to think about that can make a difference. If this kind of thing should ever happen to you, hopefully that will never happen. But if you just next time you're out and about walking around, just try it. Put your phone away, be present, take a look around, do a little 360 scan around you.

see what's going on, see if you can notice different things, watch people's body language. And in doing that, you're starting to get into a habit of being present and that will keep you a lot safer.

Dene - Streetwise Defence (23:01)
Can I share something for me when I walk around?

around me I'm walking sometimes I will just turn around and look like that not because I'm paranoid or worried I just want to know where people are where the position what's going on around me like I always say if you're in the jungle you're not going to walk around on your phone like this here because there's predators out there the lions tigers things that want to eat us so I you know for myself I'm always observing looking around people what they're doing just registering there's a couple there

there's a man walking a dog, there's a family there. Just have that 360 picture of what's going on and how it's kind of changing. And then just being observant, if somebody's behind me and they're speeding up, I'm like, okay, I know they're getting closer. Okay, what they're doing, know, they, know, profiling them to go, okay, that's the man with a kid who's late potentially because he's walking fast with his child or whatever.

So it's just to that bit of paying attention, sometimes pausing, just to glance around, not because you're paranoid, because you want to understand the environment's always changing, the people are coming and out, emotions are always changing, and you're just keeping up to date with it as you go about your daily life.

Julie Waite (24:12)
Yeah, OK, so I hope that's helpful for people got a bit more information there and if you find our content helpful, we would really appreciate it if you could subscribe, leave us a review, share this with someone who needs to hear it. Let's help keep each other safe and thank you and we will see you again next time.