Profit & Grit with Tyler

Addiction, Redemption, and Building an HVAC Life That Matters – Gil Cavey

• Tyler Martin • Episode 15

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Gil Cavey shares his powerful journey from addiction to successful HVAC business leadership, revealing how rock bottom reshaped his management philosophy toward empathy, accountability, and second chances. He demonstrates how investing in people creates returns that transcend typical business metrics while building a company where technicians want to grow their careers.

• Second-generation HVAC professional with 25 years of experience who rebuilt his life after addiction
• Creating processes and structure as the key differentiator between companies that scale beyond $10 million and those that stagnate
• The "McDonald's effect" – developing repeatable processes everyone can follow consistently
• Implementing training meetings that combine technical skills with customer communication practice
• Combating seasonality by offering strategic discounts to shift demand to traditionally slower months
• Structuring maintenance agreements as "memberships" with exclusive benefits like emergency service
• Building career advancement paths within the company to retain technicians seeking opportunity
• Supporting employees' mental health through observation, care, and having tough conversations when needed
• The value of attention to detail – from parking location to knocking instead of ringing doorbells
• Personal branding as a powerful tool for technicians and business owners to connect authentically with customers

Build your reputation first, then let your reputation build your brand. When you focus on people rather than outcomes, revenue tends to take care of itself.

🎙️ Profit & Grit by Tyler Martin
Real stories. Real strategy. Real results for service-based business owners.

🔗 Website: ProfitAndGrit.com
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Speaker 1:

When it comes to those attention to detail, it's you only get one chance to make a first impression and people don't realize that. You know we're constantly being judged and these markets are saturated. You have to stand out and just say I'm like, we're honest, we're fair and that's all. You know wash BS. You know everybody hopefully does that. You pull up with your truck so they can see the logo as you're walking up. You don't park in their driveway. You don't park in their driveway. You don't ring the doorbell. Friends knock, strangers ring the doorbell, you know little things like that.

Speaker 2:

They're proven and you don't have to reinvent the wheel. Welcome to Profit and Grit with Tyler, where blue collar owners and insiders spill the real story behind their hustle, building businesses that thrive through sweat and smarts. We'll dig into their journeys from scaling chaos to growing the bottom line, with lessons and grit that pay off big. Here's your host, the blue collar CFO, Tyler Martin.

Speaker 3:

What would you do after addiction nearly wrecks your life, but you're still standing? This week I'm talking with Gil Cavey, a second generation HVAC pro who's been through the fire. He's battled addiction, rebuilt from scratch, and now leads his company with a whole different mindset, one rooted in empathy, accountability and second chances. In this episode we talk about how hitting rock bottom reshaped the way he leads his team, why investing in people, especially the right ones, pays off in ways numbers can't always show, and how to build a company culture where techs want to stick around and grow. There's no fluff here, just a raw, real story from someone who's lived both sides of the trade and came out with more purpose on the other side. This episode of Profit and Grit is brought to you by Service Scalers, the team helping home service businesses grow smarter, not louder. Stick around for a quick marketing that scales tip during the show. Let's get into it with Gil. Hey, gil, welcome to the Profit and Grit podcast show. How's it going?

Speaker 1:

Good, good man. Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 3:

Dude, you are amazing. You are spending your Saturday morning with me and I can't thank you enough. I know you're a super busy guy. You've got a super successful podcast called HVAC Uncensored, so I just kind of want to get right into it. I want to start out with what do you do professionally?

Speaker 1:

So for me, professionally, I am the general manager and minority owner of a HVAC company. Hvac has been my life for 25 years, second generation born into it, so this is a new opportunity. I was at a place for a long time, so this one the newness of building up just super, super excited about it. Then obviously, I have the podcasts, which never in a million years thought would be anything. So I'm super grateful and blessed that it's turned into what it is.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, and I think in my research tell me if I'm off here but something like a hundred thousand you got like something like a hundred thousand in your community or some crazy number.

Speaker 1:

Is that? Is that accurate? Yeah, yeah. So it's constantly growing. Man, the podcast, the downloads have been. It's come such a journey. I just broke a total nine, almost nine and a half million downloads in 10 years, which I am truly blessed.

Speaker 3:

I get it, though. I'll tell you why. You were kind enough to allow me to get on your platform a few weeks ago and the way you connect with people, you really have a special skill. Man Like you. You don't feel like you're talking to a community of 100,000 people. You feel like you're talking to each individual, one-on-one. You just have a great way of connecting. I'm actually envious. I wish I had that ability and I'm always striving, but I'm envious that you're so good at it.

Speaker 1:

Thank you. Thank you very much, man. I appreciate that People have told me that. Just the authenticity and being genuine, that's one of the greatest compliments I could ever get. I guess it's just in me so I don't even realize it, but I'm really grateful when people say that it's an awesome gift to have.

Speaker 3:

That's great. How about something on your personal side? Can you share with us something, a tidbit maybe people don't commonly know about you?

Speaker 1:

I'm really. I'm just a fun person who loves life, my family is most important to me, and that I have struggles just like everybody else, and that I try to be open and honest about it. I don't know if you want to get into that yet, but that I did beat addiction. I mean, let's be honest, I was a piece of crap years ago. I'm glad people didn't know me back then, but I always tell people nobody wakes up one day and says I want to be an addict. It's a series of bad decisions that all of a sudden you get so far down a road you turn around and can't find your way back.

Speaker 1:

I have people tattooed on me friends that aren't here anymore that I did the same things that they did. So the fact that I'm here and they're not is eye-opening. Not is eye opening. So it means I'm the Christian, you know.

Speaker 1:

So I feel like God has me here for a reason, and when I beat my addiction, I didn't think I was going to be able to make anything of myself. So when I did, it was like hey, I have no time to waste, I'm going to grind, I want to be something in life and I just busted my butt man to get to where I am and I'm super proud of it and it's why I'm open about my story, because I understand that addiction, mental health, all those things that I suffer from are big in the trades. So when I say that and people hear my story like hey Gil, this helped me and you know all kinds of stuff that I could go down the emails Like that's amazing. It makes me feel awesome. If I do one of those shows and it helps save one person, then it was well worth it.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, it is big. You know I'm more on the finance side so I'm not in the trenches. In the strategy side I'm not really necessarily in the trenches a lot of times as technicians, but I definitely from the owners of the businesses. I mean, I hear it so repeatedly you know, hey, my main guy's got an alcohol problem or has this problem or has that problem, that some type of dependency oftentimes. What was like a turning point for you where you said I've had enough, like I want to overcome this because and correct me if I'm wrong is there a mental side of it where you just say, gosh, I've had enough and I'm going to overcome it? Or is it more of having the right people, the right support in front of you? Like what was your turning point that really said, hey, this is, this is behind me now?

Speaker 1:

Yeah. So support is enough. I realized that you can't quit for somebody else. You can't do it for your parents, for your children. You have to do it. Everybody's rock bottom is different and sometimes rock bottom has a trap door. That's the truth For me. I just got.

Speaker 1:

I was losing my friends. I got sick and tired of going to funerals watching my best friends die, watching friends die in my arms, going to their mothers and seeing what they were going through, and I didn't want my parents to go through that. And then I already had children. When I go into a gas station and my son would be like hey, can I get a candy bar? And I don't have enough money to get it because I need to make sure I can buy drugs that night it just finally got to be like Gil, what the hell are you doing? Man, like what are we doing? And enough was enough.

Speaker 1:

It was one of the hardest things I've ever done in my life. So I tell people it's not easy, but it can happen. I promise you and my wife, who sadly going through a divorce now, but we broke the normal thing that they say that don't be with somebody else going through active addiction. But I actually got clean and then helped her get clean and, you know, four children. You know what I mean and all that. So, even with us being divorced, she's an amazing woman, mother of my children, and the fact that we're both still here today is, you know, a blessing from God.

Speaker 3:

Hey, gil, thanks for being so transparent and sharing that story. What I'd also like to dig in a little bit deeper here I'd love to learn your story of what got you to being a general manager and a minority owner. Like, kind of take us through that phase of starting as a technician. Did you always see yourself as a general manager? So I'd love to hear that story.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, man, of course. And to be honest, no, never in a million years thought I would be there, you know. And to be honest, no, never in a million years thought I would be there. I'm a 25-year veteran, I'm second generation. My dad did this. I didn't know. I knew college wasn't for me, didn't know what I wanted to do and my dad let me come with him.

Speaker 1:

So I started out doing all like kitchen equipment, refrigeration, air conditioning, electricity, a little bit of everything, and I came up as a technician and I've worked in commercial, industrial, residential, all that kind of stuff. So I've seen all the different sides of the business and I kind of just fell in the residential and I was always a good communicator and even growing up being an athlete, I was always a captain. I was a natural born leader. Sadly, when I was younger I probably used that gift in not so good reasons. My mom would say when I get in trouble, why did you follow them? And I was like, sadly, I was the one leading them. So I tried to learn, as we talked earlier, to use that gift in a good way and I just slowly started working up and I used to rely on my dad and one of the best conversations I tell everybody is I would call my dad and ask him questions on how to fix stuff. And he said are you going to give me half your paycheck at the end of the week? And I'm like ha ha ha. He's like, son, you're never going to learn if you don't try to figure it out. He's like so as long as you're healthy and you're okay, I'll talk to you later. And hung up on me and wow, the best thing that ever happened to me, because I stuck my nose in the books. I never wanted to go up to a unit and not know what was going on. So I forced myself for the technical know-how reading manuals, all that kind of stuff. So I've been a tech. I understand what techs go through.

Speaker 1:

So then, being good in residential, I got good at sales. I did 3.8 million in one year, which people are blowing that away, but that was good at the time, which eventually led me into leadership. I had a little bit of a battle because I was the best technician and the owner was like okay, do I take my best tech out of the field? So that's when you have to be a force multiplier. You have to be able to come in there and be able to teach other people what you do, which was hard, but I slowly worked my way up into lead tech service manager operations to eventually be a general manager, you know.

Speaker 1:

So I've had some amazing opportunities in front of me which, like I said, as far as I'm concerned, are gifts from God, and I was able to make the most of them. So, obviously, I was at Beltway, which. That company is like a $10 million company now they are absolutely booming. Ryan is still a good friend of mine, the owner of that place, one of the most amazing people I've ever known. I walked away from there to try to save my marriage.

Speaker 1:

Obviously, that didn't work, but now it's another opportunity as being a general manager for another company to help them grow with minority ownership. So, brian and Roy amazing guys they're the owners. Really I count myself as the GM because I have a small piece, but it's an amazing opportunity and I feel like, since I've been where the technicians are, I understand. I always said I wanted to be the manager that I never had. So I understand technicians, that I understand how they think and I think that's helped me be a better general manager. But I had to learn the business stuff because that's not where I came from. So I had to learn all that stuff and I'm still learning Sure.

Speaker 3:

Sure, it's an ongoing journey. I think you'll always probably be learning to some degree. Yeah, it just never ends. There's new stuff to learn. When you say you want to be the boss that you never had, like, what do you think you do differently than maybe some bosses that you've had in the past?

Speaker 1:

So I worry about the people and not the outcome. So two things. One, I've been out on calls nine, 10 o'clock at night and you try to call your boss because you're in a situation that you don't know what to do and they don't answer the phone. My family knows I don't care if it's Christmas day and I'm in the middle of Christmas dinner or my kids are opening presents. If somebody's out there on a call and they call me, I'm answering the phone. I'm not going to make them feel like they're alone. I always have their back, and how I've always built companies and at work may not be the right way is.

Speaker 1:

I worry about the people at the bottom. If they're making money and they're happy to come to work every day, it's kind of funny how revenue takes care of itself. Yeah, you know. Yeah, One of would come work for me again. Granted, they're in good situations now, but I don't have a problem as far as recruitment. People are like hey, where are you at? You know they want to come work for me. So that makes me feel good and I don't ask them to do anything that I'm not willing to do. I'll go in the attic with them. I'll go out there and stay till nine o'clock at night, you know.

Speaker 3:

So I always say that in the service world. I say you know, if you treat clients right, if you always do the right thing, the money will come. Like you almost can't stop it. Like and this is proven through my whole career Like if you just do the right thing and you kind of do the same thing, but with people, which is cool. Like if you treat people the right way, you treat your team, the good results they'll all work themselves out.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, for sure and amen. I say the same thing in business If you worry about money, you'll have a hard time. You're always going to be chasing it. But if you worry about taking care of people, ie the technician or the customer, money will take care of itself.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I'm so on board with that. Another thing you said you talked about Beltway. Beltway being a $10 million a year company, what do you think makes, particularly in the HVAC space and just home services in general? What do you think is the difference between companies that kind of get stuck at that two to $4 million range and that are actually able to get to eight figure and above range? Like, do you see anything in all your experiences where there's a difference in what creates that?

Speaker 1:

100%.

Speaker 1:

It's the processes and structure, the foundation. People say it's the McDonald's effect. You need to have a repeatable process that everybody can do. So, regardless of what technician, what salesperson, whatever you want to call them, they're getting the same quality of service. So, like anything we used to say, if you build a house on a weak foundation, it's going to tip over. Well, you can't do the same thing with the company. You're going to sit there and be turning your feet.

Speaker 1:

Obviously, you got to have marketing and be able to get the customers in. You know maintenance contracts, like all that kind of stuff, but it's literally this is how we run a service call. This is how we do an install. This is our expectations. I tell them to set the expectations for the customer. Well, we set the expectations for the people that work for us. It's like in sports If you practice something so much, when you get in the game, it's second nature. So that's why we have service meetings, install meetings constantly. We're constantly practicing. So when we get out there, it's second nature. This is just what we do and that's what makes it easier to build Even recruitment constant people, kids coming in to train them, and you have that constant mixture to be able to grow. Everybody says we can't find people. Well, I don't have that problem, wow.

Speaker 3:

When you say you're constantly going over kind of the playbook, if you will, in meetings, are you actually doing role plays or what are you doing in those meetings? So you are kind of take me through that, like what would a meeting look like in terms of reinforcing training to your technicians?

Speaker 1:

Yes. So normally we have at minimum two meetings a week for service. So one is going to be technically based where I will go over technical stuff, going through things, trying to help them understand. I have working systems in the training room so it's interactive. We can break stuff and fix it so they see it, and that's more built on the group. That will slowly cover topics based on the seasonality and I can do that also one-on-one with somebody if they need it.

Speaker 1:

But then the communication side of meeting we're not worried about the technical stuff. It's all about how we pull up to a customer, how we knock on the door, like going through the process and communicating to the customer, because people I used to hear people say, oh well, I can do it in front of the customer but I can't do it in here. Well, bs, that's not true. So we practice it, you know, and we do it so much and try to overcome objections and, and you know, a lot of times it's just about being confident and we do it so much that people they get to be confident. I want them to be popped up in a meeting, not falling asleep. So we get up, we do jumping jacks, you know what I mean we, we talk about you know I always. I don't know if I can cuss, but when it's somebody, I go over the accomplishments of somebody and I call them F. Yes, you know what I mean. So we're you know, timmy had a great job. The customer called in, got a five-star review. F, yeah, you know what I mean and we clap for it.

Speaker 1:

I make it interactive, so people look forward to being in those meetings and we're retaining the information. And at the same token, I do call by call management, where they know their whole day. But they call me and I tell them hey, what'd you think about this? Do you think about that? I'm helping the process be followed. At the same time, I'm helping them maximize their own money. Like, well, hey, did you think about this? Like the customer doesn't have this, maybe they really need search protection. They have a really high end system. It should be on there, like those kinds of things as it grows. I got to trust other people to help with those calls, because I can't talk to 20 technicians. But that's where the process is coming in being able to, you know, get other people to help do that process.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, something you've said to me I just resonate so strongly. You talked about the attention to detail like just blows me away and I love it and it gets glossed over so much all the way to when they're driving up to the client site, like so many times I had. Adam Sylvester was on show number one for this podcast and he talked about how he prepped his technicians for literally the conversation they were going to have at the door and that attention to detail is just such a separator, even to the point hadn't really thought about it. But even to the point of how they drive up, I mean it's just you kind of just take it for granted.

Speaker 3:

I remember when I used to train salespeople until I started going over their calls with them, I didn't realize the things they were actually saying to our clients. Like sometimes they just say the most goofy things, or on the phone you could hear them breathe really heavy and they just sounded so unprofessional and unless you're kind of getting some people, they might go. That's micromanaging, but I think to most people that run a business it's like you want to create the standard and to make sure it's being set. Would you agree with that?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think it's all. It's not what you do, it's how you do it, you know. But but yeah, it's, you know, trying to help them, them grow. And when it comes to those attention to detail, it's you only get one chance to make a first impression and people don't realize that. You know we're constantly being judged and these markets are saturated. You have to stand out and just saying like we're honest, we're fair and that's all you know. Wash BS, you know everybody, hopefully does that. So you know you learn these things about where you pull up. It's data that proves it.

Speaker 1:

I always say people lie numbers, don't you know? You pull up with your truck so they can see the logo as you're walking up. You don't park in their driveway. You can see the logo as you're walking up. You don't park in their driveway. You don't ring the doorbell. Friends knock, strangers ring the doorbell. You know little things like that. They're proven and you don't have to reinvent the wheel. There's systems out there that work. Just stick to it. Everybody wants to put their twist on it. It's like, no, like, just do what works and stick to it. You don't have to try to reinvent it Like you don't. I mean you can make your little company tweaks, but just do what works. The data is out there, it's proven.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I love the attention to detail, even down to like ringing the doorbell, that verse knocking it. It's true, when someone rings the doorbell, dogs are barking. Uh, everybody knows something weird is going on. When someone knocks you like oh, I wonder who this is.

Speaker 1:

Oh, it's a salesman, it's the solar guy. Again, I don't need the exciting. You automatically think it's something bad.

Speaker 3:

Exactly, exactly so, true. Okay, one thing you just said people lie, numbers don't. Is there anything like? Can anything come to mind where you your numbers really like? You're not really focusing on what people are doing or what they're saying, but the numbers are really kind of driving you in terms of your decision-making or your thinking. And I know that's pretty broad, so take it wherever you want to go.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean, of course. So I mean just like when you talk about people like people's average tickets and the time spent on a call. There's all kinds of avenues in there. You know it's for one. We want to be a quality company, so I'm willing to let technicians do less calls with better quality and still be home for dinner, but the revenue is still the same. Right, and being able to track all that and show the technicians the data, like hey, if you would have had an extra 30 minutes here, you could have done this for Mrs Smith, your revenue would have been higher that day, you would have made more money and you wouldn't have had to run that last call to try to do that.

Speaker 1:

And then a lot of times when people start out, they're running around doing calls but they don't understand how they're doing pricing. And then they call me and they're like Gil, I'm busy every day, but at the end of the year I look in the money. I mean, look in the bank, I don't have any money. And that's the problem with a lot of people in the trades is they're really good at the trade they do, but they don't understand business. And I've learned so much from now being on the other side when trying to be transparent with our people like this is why we charge what we charge. I want you guys to have vacation and 401k and be able to send you out of state to do training and have nice vans and nice uniforms. That costs money for us to be able to do those things, to have this nice office that's state-of-the-art, with TVs and all that kind of stuff. So when they understand it, they're like oh, we're not ripping people off because we charged $300 for a capacitor. Like we tell them why we charge what we charge. You know, because I remember being a technician, being like man. We're con artists and everybody thinks the owner's sitting in his office blowing his nose with $100 bills when sadly that's not the truth.

Speaker 3:

Right. Yeah, that's the most common thing I get when a potential new client is coming to me is they're super busy, they're working hard, their team's working hard, but they have no money in the bank. And it's very frustrating and, to your point, like really good at the trades but not necessarily trained to be a business person, and that's humbling, I think. And sometimes I think it's hard for people to admit until they get to the point where it's just so bad. It's like hey, I almost can't make payroll and then, and then they oftentimes will seek help or reach out, but I think it's pretty normal to feel that way and to not have that training.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, people think it's glorified side work. Well, if that's how you intend to run your business, I hate to say it You're going to fail, you know. Yeah, that's a good one. Side work is side work, you know, because you don't necessarily need that money. It's extra, so you're charging cheap prices. But when this is now your source of income, you just got to change your mindset a little bit. And everybody makes mistakes. The sooner you realize and find out, the better off. So that's why I try to educate people as much as I can. And I don't know everything about business. I just tell them what I know doesn't work.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, so hey, I want to shift gears a little bit. I want to talk about seasonality. That's common in the HVAC world. How do you deal with that, Both assuming you have vision in this space one is cashflow and then also managing technicians. What do you have a methodology or what do you do for seasonality?

Speaker 1:

Yeah. So for seasonality is where you know maintenances are going to be huge. You know what I mean being able to do those things. That's why really people should stop calling them spring and fall maintenance. Just say you get two maintenance checks a year. You do them when you need to do them. So normally they are going to be spring and fall for the most part, depending on where you're regionally located, but do them when you need to do them and to make sure that the quality of them is there, so your renewal rate stays up.

Speaker 1:

We try to do a lot of monthly maintenance contracts so you constantly have that revenue coming in each month. It just kind of feeds it. So my belief and I may be wrong, people way smarter than me would say is you know, I think like go back before the systems in place so that when it is busy you're capturing the biggest piece of the pie that you can, right. So then when you have those maintenances and stuff in the off season, it we have the cashflow. We try to forecast it, our vision board, to project what we're going to to be, so we don't get caught off guard. You know we go by past years. I know the weather can be different, but we can try to predict what's going to happen. And then the same token is that's when we can invest some of this money from the busy season that we can. Hey, a portion of this. We're going to send these two guys to train. We're going to send them to here. We're going to do more stuff of this in the office. Like I don't need them in the field Now. I can train them to make them better for when it is crunch time to do those little things.

Speaker 1:

Buying vehicles Roy, one of my partners here. Like when it comes to money, he is a whiz. Like he understands how to. So I trust in him to be honest of what he's doing. He knows that, hey, we finance this vehicle, but I think it's better if we pay for this one. Let's do this Like he understands how to do it, so that we keep cashflow. Like we don't let it get below a certain point. Got it? You know that's just what it is. So a lot of it is just planning and that's where I think the process is.

Speaker 1:

One big thing that I'll throw there some people might do is, in the summertime, trying to steal some of that urgency. In maryland we have three months, if we're lucky. Everybody wants to replace the hvac system in the summertime people that have working systems. I offer them a discount to do it in october, november. I try to fill up that time and say, hey, if God forbid your system dies from now to then, then we'll do you now. But I've been able to fill up the so-called slow months, to fill up three install teams or more, making that revenue and then be able to get other people to fill the summer. So I'm using the urgency to fill up when there's not urgency, and it has been amazing.

Speaker 3:

Wow, that's a great idea and people bite on that discount because I imagine it has to be enough of a discount that would get them to go. Yeah, no big deal, I'll just push it out a couple months and people will actually bite on that.

Speaker 1:

Oh yeah, everybody wants to save money and I give them enough of a discount that it's more than anybody else has given and we're still making money on it. You know it's still profitable and it's in a time where I probably wouldn't have an install at all, so it's more than I would have made that day if I had nothing.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, you're filling a slot that probably would be empty at that time period. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Wow, that's a good idea. And then I want to dig in on two things. Actually, I think they're kind of a little bit intertwined. It intertwined One is on the maintenance agreements. Some of the struggle that I see I'd just be curious how you guys structure them is, you'll often hear I'll often get pushback on maintenance agreements. They'll say, hey, you know, I don't really every client's kind of different. Sometimes they have two units, sometimes they have one unit, sometimes they need that, sometimes they need this. How do you do it? So you're setting up a maintenance agreement it sounds like it's kind of under a flat pricing, or do you have different tiers? Or how do you kind of structure them?

Speaker 1:

So I don't believe in the tiers, I believe in just having one. And I tell people the wording like it should be a membership, Like I get to join this and I get special stuff. When you say, like maintenance contract contracts sound bad, oh, I have a contract, I'm locked into it. So it's about that impression. Hey, join our club membership and you get these benefits. Like no diagnostic emergency service. The only people we provide emergency service to are our club members. If you're loyal to us, we're loyal to you. And I charge $195 diagnostic on the weekend. During the week it's $95. During the week it's $195. And if people ask about it, I say, well, just so you know, our techs work really, really hard during the week. So if I'm going to take them away from their families on the weekend, $100 of that goes right to the technicians. Now I have guys fighting over on call call and most customers don't say a word about it. And the ones who do, I probably didn't want them as a customer anyway.

Speaker 3:

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Speaker 1:

And most customers don't say a word about it, and the ones who do, I probably didn't want them as a customer anyway.

Speaker 3:

Right, that's so true. So you actually? So you're saying the only one you'll do an emergency call for is someone that's actually in your customer appreciation or your elite customer kind of program, I'll call it?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, because I could flip it. So when they call and talk to the CSR and they go hey, I'm looking for emergency service, sure, thank you so much for calling in. Sure, we definitely want to be able to help you out today. Are you one of our club members? No, I'm not man. I'm sorry to hear that. So we actually only provide emergency service for our club members. I have a slot open today. We could definitely get to you. Is that something you'd be interested in hearing about? And they'll flip it.

Speaker 1:

The people are like, yeah, shit, I'm already getting something out of this membership, you know, and even if I get them to be a member, I'll waive the diagnostic the first day, like, hey, I can't take away the a hundred, but I'll take away the 95, you know that comes to the company and we'll come out and take care of you, and I mean two visits. If you can't make the 95 bucks back then, then you're not good at what you're doing. It's all about the, the, the opportunity that you're getting Got it. The other part about maintenance real fast is just making sure that so many companies have got a bad rap. They do horrible maintenances, they show no value, they're there for 30 minutes and they say, oh, everything looks good, see you next time. So then it comes time to renew that. People are like nothing's ever wrong, like my system's fine, I don't need this. And not saying that we find things wrong, but we list everything. For us, a maintenance is a minimum an hour and a half. I want you to be there.

Speaker 1:

We set the expectation, let the customers know hey, we do a very thorough process. This is exactly what we do. They're going to be there for probably at least an hour and a half. Is that okay? And if it's not, then we'll reschedule it. I don't want them to rush through, so we explain everything, I mean document everything, so that they get it. They may not understand the numbers they're seeing, but if God forbid, they ask a question, more than happy to explain it. And then everything that we see is not the way the manufacturer attended. We bring it up to them. We always say bringing it back to factory fresh. Let the customer decide what they want to do, and then we know enough about the products and services to answer the questions that they ask. It's really that simple and doing the same thing every single time, regardless of the technician that goes out there.

Speaker 3:

Very cool. How do you and the other part of that question was somewhat similar is how do you deal with either flat pricing or, like a hybrid pricing when you're going out to a client site? Do you have any methodology on that? Are you like, do you go down the flat pricing route or do you guys have a hybrid? How do you deal with it?

Speaker 1:

So we do a flat pricing, but you know so, like if one system is cost X, if they have a second system that's a little bit less. You know what I mean? Yep, you know. So they don't feel like I'm raping them. And, to be honest, you know you're not, you're not making money off of service. I mean maintenance contracts, you're not.

Speaker 1:

It's the opportunity. Those are the customers that when something breaks, you know they're going to call you right. You know you can have 10,000 people If you only have a thousand. You know memberships, well, only a thousand people are going to call you for sure when something breaks because of what they get. So that's all about, you know, just making sure that we have the opportunity that when it does break that we're going to be the ones that are installing that new system. Ideally I like to install a new one, be their service provider all the way until God forbid that dies. We keep it running as long as possible and then we replace it again. You know they're families Like that's what I want to build that relationship to do stuff like that Sure Makes total sense.

Speaker 3:

On the repair side generally you probably have better margins it's ongoing than it would be on the installs. Is that a fair assumption in terms of profit margin? Is that a fair assumption?

Speaker 1:

in terms of profit margin? Yes, but I mean you know, probably you know 75% of a HVAC company's revenue is going to come from install. You know what I mean. So profit margins are better, yes, but we definitely want to have the install revenue to be able to boost it up. So it's fine. If they want to replace it, great, we can offer you that. If you want us to fix it, we'll do whatever they want us to do. We just want to make sure they have all the options before they make that decision.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, that makes total sense and then kind of jumping around here. But I do kind of want to go around. I know when you used to work for Bellway I'm doing research about you you talked about building an all-star team. Can we revisit that? You did definitely talk about hey, just caring about people. I think that's a big one. Do you think there's anything else that you do in your style in terms of attracting and developing an all-star team that you do that creates that all-star team?

Speaker 1:

I mean, yeah. So obviously you know, it's the culture, the vibe, and every culture is different because the people make the culture. So no two cultures are the same. It's providing an atmosphere that people want to come to. It's attractive. People are paid well, they're paid what they're worth, you know, and we get to do things like I care about their why, like I don't want to just know about that.

Speaker 1:

This tech has a wife and two children. I want to know, I want to meet them, I want to know their names, what are their interests? Like. This is why this person comes to work every day. So I really try to have company events and company fun days and do things that are constantly building that and them to know that, yes, I'm their boss and they work for me, but really I work for them. I want them, I want to give them all the resources to be successful, because when they're successful, we're successful, and I just make that a focus and I know it seems like so simple, right, and it's a lot of work, but that's pretty much been the avenue that I'm going to give them everything that they need to be successful and it's just that in the atmosphere has just worked.

Speaker 3:

Right, what do you do, gil, when you have you know, you have a great technician and they want to do more than just being a technician, or they've been with you for a long time. How do you manage that so you don't lose technicians, and do you have some type of roadmap, or what do you do?

Speaker 1:

Yeah. So I have a way that I've actually learned from someone else. So I always say a lot of people don't always leave for money, they leave for opportunity. So I need to make sure their opportunity is with me. So some people tell me hey, I want to stay here, I want to learn, and then I want to start my own business. I will help answer questions, I'll teach them what they need to know. I'll help them go start a business to be my competition. That's fine, there's enough for all of us to eat. The other people is just talking about them, about what their plans are.

Speaker 1:

So in the service room we're in the training room, I have boards everywhere for every technician installer, service tech about what they want. So they have their personal goals that we can help them meet and their work goals. And what I've tried to do is you know, if I have three install teams, I'll take one of the persons who's the most qualified and I'll now make them A lead installer in the office responsible for those teams. Then we build up three more teams. I'm going to make another field supervisor. So I'm constantly creating this little pyramid that goes up. But I'm creating positions. Same way in service, you know, if I have four technicians, okay, well, hey, buddy, we're going to hire another one. I'm going to make you the field supervisor, like I'm giving them a path to slowly build up.

Speaker 3:

And as we grow, there's a place for somebody else to go. Yeah, so that is an awesome formula. That whole building the little pods where you have one person overseeing a pod I actually did that in an engineering services firm that we sold was that's how we scaled. We kept creating these pods and we would give opportunity for people to grow, and then you had so many pods that then you needed another person to oversee the pods and it just had this whole effect of being able to allow people to level up. That's, that's a great methodology.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and it works. And some people they don't want it. They're fine. They want to make more money but they don't want responsibility. That's fine, it's whatever you want, I mean. But I want to be able to provide that to the people that do want it, to know that at least I'm making a few more dollars. I'm getting out of the field, you know, especially. You know I did it and I'm in the field now just helping people like the shit's hard on your body, man. Like you know, I always say you got to have an escape plan because I hate seeing these 65, 70 year old people in the field Like, yeah, I don't want anybody that works for me to have to be that way, unless they truly want to, because I don't want to do that Right.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, and truthfully, not many 65 or 70 year olds probably really want to do that, unless they're in a situation where they have to do it. Sadly, I've definitely run into that too in different industries and it's hard. You try to do everything you can to accommodate the individual, if possible. Okay, we've got a few more here. One I want to go back to this whole mental health topic. One I want to go back to this whole mental health topic. Where do you think businesses should position themselves or how should they be involved for supporting their employees in terms of mental health and just encouraging, you know, staff to have a healthy mindset and mental well-being? What's your thoughts around that?

Speaker 1:

Well, it's for one. It's observing, knowing your people like and I hate to say it this way but actually giving a shit. If you know a person is on time every day. They've been on time for two years and all of a sudden now you see they're coming in 10, 15 minutes late. Take them aside. Hey, man, is everything all right? I've noticed a change in you. Can I help you in any way? Just caring about people goes a long way. You've been 15 minutes late, man. If it happens again, I'm going to write you up and not saying you don't have those talks, but coming from a point of caring and giving a damn.

Speaker 1:

You know, a book I highly recommend is called radical candor and it always says the three C's about providing challenge, clarity, clarity and care. I live by that and we've kind of covered pretty much all that in the conversations talking. But it's doing that kind of stuff and let them know that it's okay to not be okay Even when everything's going good. And, like I told you, I've suffered from it. I've made money, I live in a big house and all that Money doesn't change it, it doesn't matter. It's just in knowing like, hey, if you need the help, we'll help you get what you need. Like you, being okay is the most important thing, and you know, when I first came to the field, it wasn't like that. It was hey, you don't like it, we'll find somebody else that will. So coming off from a place of caring first and foremost, is extremely powerful, because nobody's perfect powerful, because nobody's perfect.

Speaker 3:

We all have issues. But, gil, I also want to take it one step deeper, because I think something you did there that was even deeper than the caring part is the observation to notice that someone's trend is changing. Because, truthfully, a lot of employers would not notice that. They'd just be like dude, get to work or get to work on time. I don't want to hear about it. They wouldn't really think about the change of behavior, change of pattern, and I think that takes you like to a whole nother level If you're observing your team and aware of what they normally do and then giving them the benefit of the doubt rather than just thinking they're suddenly late.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, no, I, and I always say the coaching method it probably sounds harsher than it is is I will keep giving somebody enough rope that they're either going to pull it tight or they're going to hang themselves. You know, and it's just you know, and I will always give them the benefit of the doubt, because if, God forbid, I do have to discipline them. They're like I'm like hey, man, like I've tried. They're like no, I know you have. Like like it's not argumentative, because they know that I've tried to not get to this point, Like you forced my hand, Like I didn't want to do this any more than you wanted me to do this, and it just, it just makes it easier. They're apologizing to me when it comes to that point, you know. So I just feel like it's a better approach.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I know it's a great approach. I've had it actually many times in my career where someone's had some type of dependency issue or mental health issues. And I know one that always stood out at me is this guy. I really liked him a lot and I really thought he was trying, but he had a drinking problem and you know, coming to work late, have him getting kicked out of clubs and banned from clubs and just all these telltale signs, and he ended up getting thrown in jail and I stood by him.

Speaker 3:

We paid him through the time that he was in the home. It was a jail I don't know what they call it, but not like a hardcore jail, very easy one, and like a hardcore jail a very easy one and then put him through treatment and guy ended up being, I mean to this day, even this company we sold. To this day he still works at that company, he's their top producer and to me it's like one of the big win stories, because it would have been really easy to give up on him or not support him and fortunately he didn't hang himself. He went through and the hard part was him following through it through with it, but thankfully it turned out to be really positive, and he's. He's the one I always think about whenever I think about like someone giving them a chance and making sure you understand their story, because if you don't, it's just kind of missing maybe opportunity to help someone yeah, amen.

Speaker 1:

I'm so glad that that happened and I've had those two where they turned out positive. I've had them where they turned out negative too, and you just got to be prepared for that like and not getting the mindset well, I'm not going to keep doing this because the last person didn't work out. Like, no, no, no, keep doing it. You know, if God forbid they don't work out, I can sleep at night knowing that I did everything I possibly could to help them. And you know, sometimes it didn't work out and I've had to fire those people and I've talked to them years later and they say, gil, you firing me was the best thing you could have ever did. You know I didn't want to do it, but they're like, it woke me up and now I'm doing good. So, like there's always more, everybody's road is different. You know God's working in different ways and all those and everybody. So you know, take the good with the bad, yeah, good stuff.

Speaker 3:

Hey, switching to personal branding you obviously have a big following, very, very much out in social media. Where do you think that fits for business owners? What's your thoughts around them? Developing their personal brand how can it benefit them, like, what benefits have you got out of this and does it? Does it make sense for everybody to be doing that? That's that has their own business and personal branding themselves, or even a technician? What are your thoughts around that?

Speaker 1:

100%. I think they should. I open my texts to you know to doing that if they want to, and then I can use that for material Like it's something as simple as a website. Don't use stock photos. Put your actual people in there. Make it authentic, make it real and when you make videos, obviously have somebody with the personality that gets through. Obviously, I'm lucky because I can do that. But be yourself when people see that, when you're in a home and they actually see who you are and you're talking to them and it's not always a sales pitch, it's showing them what filters to buy.

Speaker 1:

Stuff that we think in the trades is simple to us is not common knowledge to these people. Just giving them tips and stuff like that, letting them get to know you. It builds the relationship, how you feel like you know somebody but you've never really met them, and especially someone from a position of power. Like taking the time to be like, hey, I wanted to tell you this or tell you that, and I think it's huge. People get sucked in, they want to watch it and it works. And then if you have technicians doing their own brand, people will call in and be like hey, I watched so-and-so's videos. They are absolutely awesome. Can I get them? Absolutely, We'll make sure that they come out, Even though I want them to know that, no matter who they get, they're getting the same level of service. But if somebody wants a particular tech, I won't say no, but that can be another problem, though scheduling.

Speaker 3:

So be careful with that.

Speaker 1:

But it works out to get people interested in what you do because they're seeing the behind the scenes. You know, when customers know that person's in their basement, you know, and they hear bang, bang, bang, like what the hell is that person doing down there? It's like, oh, this is what they're doing when they're in the basement. You know what I mean.

Speaker 3:

It's just as much as you can get the gray area out of it. It just helps because when people assume normally it's bad, it's not good. It's so funny. Since I've started this podcast I watch so many videos now of people in the trenches doing the job and I have such a whole nother level appreciation Plus. Now I have like some basic understanding where it's more than just you know, just the number side of the business. I can actually. It just helps me connect a lot more. So I think it's cool to see all these technicians and owners posting what they're actually doing. You know, just it's a lot harder than I think a lot of us realize the grind of it. And then you throw in the emergency calls and that's a whole nother level.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah. And then dealing with the weather. It's either really hot and when we go there they don't have AC that's the reason we're there or it's really cold and they don't have heat. That's the reason we're there. But don't worry, tyler, I'm going to have you fixing your own AC here in like a couple of months. You're going to be a certified tech.

Speaker 3:

Dude, I appreciate your confidence in me, but I'm the guy that usually winds up with a worse problem than when I started, so I think I'll stick to the numbers side. I think it'd be safer. Okay, a couple more and then we'll wrap up. I wanted to talk, so I interviewed a lady named Miss Mini Split. Her name's Rachel. She's awesome.

Speaker 3:

She's out on real big social media following, and when I was talking with her, when I was interviewing with her, I said, hey, whatever made you decide to go from being a technician to starting your own business? And she said to me well, truthfully, I kept seeing my pay go up as an HVAC technician and I thought, geez, if I did this myself, I can make way more money. And so she went out and started her own business. She was kind of school of hard knocks. She didn't get business for a long time, was kind of ready to throw in the towel, and literally when she was ready to accept another job, she got her first jobs for her company and then the rest of the story took off and now she has a a thriving business.

Speaker 3:

So where I'm going with this is what would you tell those technicians that are thinking about potentially starting their own business, like what are what are mistakes you see people make? When do you think it's smart for people to do that and when do you think, hey man, you got a good gig, maybe stick with what you're doing and don't try to go out on your own? What are your thoughts around that?

Speaker 1:

Well, I think it has a lot to do with personality type. Like if you are someone that you'd like to just blend in, you like to, you know, get off at a decent time and go home and do what you want to do, then maybe starting your own business is not what you want to do. But if you are hungry, yes, you can. Don't do it for the money Because, to be honest, in the beginning you're probably going to make less than you made at the company, to be quite frank, because you're going to have to reinvest into the business to be able to set that foundation, but then you're hopefully going to make it back. You know, year two, year three, depending on what you want. Maybe you want to be a one man band, maybe you want to build a $20 million company. Everybody's dreams are different and there's no wrong answer. So I think it's knowing what you want and being able to make those sacrifices. So, if you're married, make sure that you and your spouse have that conversation Like hey, this could be rough for a little bit, and like there's one income that can hold you over to get through it, or you have some money saved up, or a financial backing, a loan, something to be able to do that and talk to people who have done it before. You know, hear the good, hear the bad, because I think we talked about when you were on with me there's more people that close than succeed, yeah. So hear all of it and just prepare yourself to know what you're getting into. That's huge.

Speaker 1:

But I think everybody should want to be an entrepreneur, like I'll help, like go start your own business. If I could go back and do it again, I would 100% start my own. Me and my dad always talked about it, but because of my addiction to other things, I didn't have the opportunity. And then, when it got later, I'm like well, I don't know if I want to do it now, and I've been fortunate to make a lot of money being the right-hand man, being the second in charge. So, yeah, everybody's opportunities are different. It's just what you make of it.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, that's a great well thought out answer. I also would add you know you said you might not make as much, and the other aspect of that is you also are probably gonna work more. I mean, that's just the reality of it. In those first couple of years, especially if you don't have a lot of help or you don't have money where you can go out and pay for help, you're probably gonna be working longer hours. It's gonna be a grind part. That in where why a lot of people fail is they're not ready for the one, two, three year grind. The good news is, once you get over that grind, nobody knows when it'll happen. But when you get over that ground grind, things do get easier. You still have challenges, still have headaches, but they're different and you've got past that grind.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you got to build your reputation. I've always learned that you build your reputation. Let your reputation build your brand. You know, like where I am now, carol Mechanical. Normally you don't use the word mechanical and residential. You know customers think that that's more commercial, so we'll probably change that, but we are still building our reputation, which is amazing, and then we'll use that reputation to therefore rebrand, to be like this is us. You know what I mean, cause we didn't pick this name. My partners they bought this from somebody else that's been around and we've already doubled revenue as far as what they've done. So we have our reputation, maintain it, exceed it, and then we'll let that build our brand. So, get out there and build your reputation, and then that's really what you got to do. It's going to be a lot of work for less money, but reputation, and then that's really what you got to do.

Speaker 3:

It's going to be a lot of work for less money, but you'll make out in the long run, you know 100%. So just just know what you're getting into Right. And then, if it makes you feel queasy at all to hear that, then be the best technician that you can be. Look, find places like Gill that gives you opportunities for growth, if that's what you want, and there's nothing wrong with that either. I mean there really is no wrong answer. Opportunities for growth, if that's what you want, and there's nothing wrong with that either. I mean there really is no wrong answer. It's just the shoe that fits you, the size that fits you. Yeah, yeah, good stuff, Okay. Last question, and then we'll wrap up. I'd love to walk away with it. Could be a life tip, could be a business tip, something in your journey that you've experienced that you could share with us that is hopefully actionable, apply either to our business or life. Anything come to mind.

Speaker 1:

I could sit here for half an hour. There's several. Nobody ever succeeded without failing. I want you to remember that, that you have to keep failing till you get it right. Anybody successful didn't get it right the first time. Worry more about the solution than the problem.

Speaker 1:

That phrase has helped me so much and you're going to have divots in life. Just keep going. I have had so many ups and downs. Things are great, things are not. Keep going and cherish the moment. We can always make money. We can't get back time. Enjoy the small wins. Enjoy the small things with your family.

Speaker 1:

You don't ever want to look back years from now and be like man I wish I would have done this, I wish I would have done this, I wish I would have done that. So make the most of each moment and don't be afraid to take risks. No risk, no reward. Yeah, it's all. I know they probably all sound cliche, but damn it, they're. They're right, they're true, it's their 100% it's. And don't live for what other people think like material things. Cause I'll be honest, I bought a multimillion dollar house. I thought this is what I was supposed to do. This house has been nothing but a freaking burden. I cannot wait till it's gone. I'm going to be honest with you. Like, material things will not make you happy. Money cannot make you happy, so please don't, um, don't do that, yeah, that's good stuff.

Speaker 3:

That's a lot there and they do some cliches in there, but, truthfully, the foundation of every one of those cliches are really powerful because, you know, it's easy for us to lose focus, not have that grit to keep going through. And those are, you know, when you have some of those things you mentioned and you follow through with them, that's how success finds you.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah. And the one that I was going to say is from Rocky, when it says it's not how hard you get hit, it's you know, or something like that, it's it's how hard, how hard you can hit. It's how hard you can get hit and get back up, and I love that. I used to play that in my ear when I was in the gym.

Speaker 3:

I need. I need whatever it reminds me. When I was on your show you have such a wonderful like the great music starting, the good music ending, and I feel like ever since that I feel like I should have this dashboard with sound effects and, like when you just brought up Rocky, I can start playing the theme song and just hit the button. So I got to work on it, got to work on having a better system, gil.

Speaker 1:

Oh, I can play a 40 if you need me. Just kidding.

Speaker 3:

You're awesome man, hey, okay. Well, that was a great conversation. Can't thank you enough. Your website, hvacuncensoredcom Guys, please check it out HVACuncensoredcom. I will also put in the show notes at ProfitandGritcom all of Gil's social media sites, but if you go to HVACuncensored, all his links are there. You can listen to his show. You can learn more about him, gil. I can't thank you enough, man. Once again, saturday morning to have a conversation with me is so's so cool, and hope you have a good rest of the weekend and thanks for taking your time to talk with me today.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you as well, man. Thank you so much. I love what you're doing. Keep rocking out, buddy. Thanks, man, take care.

Speaker 3:

Wow. I really loved and appreciated Gil's story. He rebuilt his life by staying consistent, putting his ego aside and leading with more patience and presence. You could feel it. His team knows he's in it with them, not just barking orders from the top. From my side, as a fractal CFO, I work with a lot of owners who've gone through their own kind of chaos. Growth gets messy, cash gets tight. People problems pop up fast. When you combine structure with heart, when you actually know your numbers and treat your team like humans, you build something that lasts. If that's what you're trying to do and you want a hand with the financial side, you can always reach out at cfomadeeasycom and if this episode hit home, send it to someone who might need to hear it or leave a review to help others in the trades find profit and growth. Appreciate you listening. I'll catch you next week. Thank you.

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Tyler Martin

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