Profit & Grit with Tyler

Why Your Tech Training Strategy Determines Your Bottom Line - Joey Henderson

• Tyler Martin • Episode 19

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Joey Henderson shares his 35-year journey from Navy submarine technician to HVAC business owner and now traveling trainer, revealing how he built and sold two successful businesses while discovering what truly drives profitability in the industry.

• Started in HVAC reluctantly after Navy service but quickly found his passion
• Built and sold two HVAC businesses, with his second company achieving in three years what his first couldn't accomplish in ten
• Transformed his business model from being built around himself to building a strong brand that could operate without him
• Identifies technician training as the biggest challenge facing HVAC companies
• Discovers airflow issues cause 90% of service problems but receive the least training attention
• Recommends using flat-rate pricing to even out a company's financial highs and lows
• Suggests service agreements as the backbone of a growing service company with valuable recurring revenue
• Advises tracking callbacks in a "Mr. Callback" account to identify training needs and calculate true costs
• Values mentorship from experienced contractors who can provide business guidance
• Emphasizes social media presence as essential for reaching new audiences

You can find Joey "Jojo the HVAC Man" Henderson on YouTube, TikTok, and LinkedIn where he shares technical tips and business insights for HVAC professionals.


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Speaker 1:

We started crying and laughing so hard he couldn't get off the ground. I couldn't get off the ground. We were crawling all fours like dogs, grabbing these papers and crying and screaming. At the same time, a lady came out and looked at us and we said we're sorry, but we couldn't even talk to her, so nuts, and she just went back inside. So we grabbed all of the papers, we shoved them in the notebook and it looked like something out of a Harry Potter movie that ate all of its papers.

Speaker 2:

Welcome to Profit and Grit with Tyler, where blue-collar owners and insiders spill the real story behind their hustle, building businesses that thrive through sweat and smarts. We'll dig into their journeys, from scaling chaos to growing the bottom line, with lessons and grit that pay off big. Here's your host, the blue collar CFO, tyler Martin. Hey, everyone, welcome back to.

Speaker 3:

Profit and Grit, I've got a fun one today. Joey Henderson, also known as Jojo the HVAC man, has been in the HVAC industry for 35 years. He's done it all Navy submarines technician, business owner, instructor. Done it all Navy submarines technician, business owner, instructor. Now a traveling trainer for both field techs and office staff. He sold not one, but two HVAC businesses and built his second one the right way, with systems, strong margins and a brand that didn't revolve around him. This episode is packed with real world wisdom for anyone in the trades. Joey shares what most techs are missing, how to avoid the callback trap and why airflow might be the most underrated skill in HVAC. Let's dive in. Hey, joey, welcome to the Profit and Grit Show. How are you doing today? I'm doing fantastic. Thanks, yeah, great to have you, so I'm really excited to talk with you. I get to learn about your entrepreneurial journey. Before I do that, I'd love to learn what you're doing currently professionally, and then also a little tidbit about you personally.

Speaker 1:

Sure. So I'm currently an HVAC consultant and instructor. I'm independent, so I'll go around to companies around the country. I've been as well as a little bit international, and I'll go into the company and I'll teach technicians HVAC. Also. I am a consultant for companies and subject matter expert with curriculums as well as designing different products and then also I help write technical manuals and then I also teach service professionals in the office.

Speaker 1:

So I do you know for the dispatchers and all that that don't understand the HVAC. You know for the dispatchers and all that that don't understand the HVAC. You know lingo I just kind of keep it on a broad perspective, but boy, they really appreciate it. I've just been able to put a face with a name when they're talking about compressors and contactors and filters and all that kind of stuff with technicians and their customers when they call in. So that's been a great big need that I have found that people really appreciate. And so a little bit about myself. I've been in the industry for 35 years and I've been a technician all the way up to company owner and ran an HVAC program and I just really love this industry. I have a lot of fun at it. As you can see, I'm all about fun and we have a great time learning and have an awesome time just helping others do better.

Speaker 3:

And for those of you just listening, joey has an incredibly bright yellow shirt on, which is definitely going to get your attention, and that's one of the things that gravitated me towards you when I was learning about you. Is you really stress about keeping it fun? Like before I get into my business questions, why is that so important to you, to keep it fun, and why do you think that's the important?

Speaker 1:

That's kind of been my life philosophy. If I'm not having fun, I don't do it for long. Now, it doesn't mean I don't have to grind out certain things and being up in a 125 degree attic isn't a lot of fun but when it comes to learning and teaching, you know, I've been into a lot of classes where the information is fantastic but the delivery is just mind numbing. I mean, you're drooling after 10 minutes, you know. And so I've never wanted to be that way. I've always wanted to be engaged and have a lot of fun. So we do.

Speaker 1:

I run through the audience, I'm never standing still and I just want people to enjoy as much as I enjoy, and I absolutely enjoy HVAC, yeah that's very cool.

Speaker 3:

So once you ended being on Navy submarines which sounds like it could be a story unto itself you got into HVAC. That's where I'd kind of like to start. What got you into HVAC, like, why did you go in that direct and you've kind of done all the roles? So I think you from the Navy submarines, you went into the technician. Is that correct? Yes, that's correct.

Speaker 3:

So what got you, what got you in the technician direction and how did it ultimately lead you owning your own business? That's and we got. How much time? Give me the five minute version.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I was. It's interesting I always said this career picked me. I didn't pick this career and I've talked a lot of guys that kind of have that same discussion, but anyway you know when I got out.

Speaker 1:

I said I'd never do mechanical work again, I'd never do nuclear work. I was done, it was just. It was just a very high stress pace on the submarine and I guess when I left I was like I'm not going back to that again. So actually I was in sales. I love people, I love engaging with people, which is one of the reasons why I enjoy training, and so I kind of went back fishing like the disciples did.

Speaker 1:

I went back to sales and well then I'm there in sales and a guy walks in with a jacket at a Bible college. I was looking to actually go. I moved actually to go there and never could get there because of financial reasons. And he said, hey, well, if you work on the maintenance crew, you can actually go to school for free. And I said, well, what's open? He goes air conditioning. Oh no, and so I said, well, I guess I'm going back. So I ended up going back into air conditioning to take classes and I ended up loving it so much in the civilian world under a retired army refrigeration mechanic and did it right and we did it at a different pace, you know, and I went to tech school at night, did my gi bill. I ended up never taking a class at the bible college and and there's loving the career, and uh, I got hooked into it and now I've never left it since and then where did that lead?

Speaker 3:

how did it go into like having your own business, because that's a pretty big jump. Is that something you always kind of envisioned doing, having your own business or never, but I a pretty big jump. Is that something you always kind of envisioned doing?

Speaker 1:

uh, having your own business or Never, but I think it's in my blood. My dad was a constant entrepreneur. He was always into uh, he was, and he was like me, which I didn't know. Really, we didn't, we didn't have a very in-depth relationship. A lot of it got passed on. He was in the sales and he was mechanical and everything else and he ran a bunch of little businesses and so I just ended up doing, you know, a lot of work for different people and you know, like a lot of guys, we start out small and taking a little job here, a little job there, and then you have to make a decision. And I decided to go full time with a whopping 25 customers in a beat up old van and when I got my license and took a leap of faith and it was like stepping on a conveyor belt that was running at a hundred miles an hour nonstop from there and but it was like any other small business owner that goes from tech to owner.

Speaker 1:

A lot of learning, but I learned a lot. I went to a lot of classes, a lot of business classes worked, you know, 10 days a week and 36 hours a day, and you know it was me myself and I, and then I hired another guy and another guy and got somebody in the office and kind of built my way up and got a lot of school of hard knocks, training. But I loved. I loved being an entrepreneur, I loved dealing with customers, I loved being in the field, I loved helping technicians, and so it was all a nice package. But managing the company and actually making a profit are very different For sure. So I had to learn that the hard way and I ended up selling that company and that's when I became a technical rep for a carrier and then train, and that's where I really got my love for training. I did a lot of work for them. I was always training part-time at a tech school anyway, and even when I was running my businesses and I've never stopped doing that and I became a hyper troubleshooter. So I really honed in my troubleshooting skills and then honed in my training skills and I did those two together for 15 years still while teaching part-time at the tech school. And then when I got out of that I did again. Never say never.

Speaker 1:

Not only did I go back into HVAC when I got out of the Navy, I also went back in the nuclear and the civilian side for a while and that was some big stuff and that project unfortunately got shut down. But I took the job as the director for the HVAC program that I went through and ran that for seven years and in the middle of it I started another company in the afternoons and started running two senior techs to apprentice them and I learned all my School of Hard Knocks running business the first time and applied what I learned to do the second time around and that business did 10 times better in the first year than the other one did in 10 years with four techs, and I did it with two techs. But I learned how to delegate better. I learned how to stay focused on the business and support them in the field, but let them really be the guys in the field.

Speaker 1:

The second time around the company wasn't built on me. The company was built on a brand. The first time around the company was built on me so if I didn't go out, the customers weren't sure who to trust. This time around I backed up whoever I sent out and so they called the company. They didn't call Joey and that worked out really well. And then I sold that one too.

Speaker 3:

That's a big deal, though, like that thought of moving from it's all about the owner to it's about the brand, and you're standing behind the brand. How did you get to that level where you were presenting it that way?

Speaker 1:

Yeah Well, after I bloodied my face for 10 years on the first time around and going to a lot of business classes talking to people who are successful in business, they always say that if you want to be successful, talk to others who are successful.

Speaker 1:

You know, the second time around I had a vision that I wanted to start the company to be reputable, but where it didn't revolve around me, it just revolved around the quality of service and the philosophy that I wanted in the business. And then that way it was also geared to sell. So I learned how to sell it with equity right up front and I learned what banks look at, what other businesses look at when they go to buy a company. So I built it off of that as well, with that intention that someday I would sell it. And I started from day one that way and I only ran it for, I think, three years, wow, and I made more. Everybody did better in the second company than I ever did in the first one and I sold it for much better the second time around than I did the first time around. So it worked out really well for everybody.

Speaker 3:

Something to be said for experience right.

Speaker 1:

Yeah Well, you know the definition of experience right. What's that? It's the knowledge you gained right after you needed it.

Speaker 3:

I love that one. That's a good one.

Speaker 1:

I didn't make that up. I stole it, but I'm going to take it.

Speaker 3:

That's okay, it's still a good one. You're just recycling it. So tell me this what do you think, in terms of those two businesses that you own and you sold them both, which is awesome accomplishment in both cases what was the biggest challenge do you think, especially in the second one, because it seemed like you figured a lot of things out what do you think is the biggest struggle you see with business owners Because you work with them now that they're just really challenged and they have trouble overcoming?

Speaker 1:

You know and I'm not saying this to put a plug in for training, but I have to Sure to plug in for training, but I have to the biggest challenge is keeping technicians up to date, making them feel valued by actually investing back into the technician.

Speaker 1:

So many times and I worked with thousands of technicians out in the field when I was a tech rep, and so I would meet the owner up front, but then I'd go out with technicians to help them figure out a problematic job, and over and over they told me that they wished their company would send them to more training, because they were pretty much thrown out there to figure it out on their own and they're just scared to death and they don't know how to ask the right questions.

Speaker 1:

And so the biggest thing I stayed on top of, of course, it was easier for me as an instructor as well, as I kept my guys informed. I was always teaching them, always training them, and they really appreciated that. And then, if they went off to a bigger company, I made sure they had all they needed and, um, I had processes in place when I got a new guy, you know, training the way we wanted to be trained, and I think that's huge and that's a big challenge for companies as they grow is to keep that quality and to keep that ongoing training and letting the technicians know they care about them. And I hope I'm not, you know, stroking a little violin here, but those guys out in the field, man man, when they start getting beat up and burned out, they'll leave for 25 cents an hour if somebody makes them feel like they're going to have a better environment yeah, it really is.

Speaker 3:

So using, like you know, a shop maybe that has somewhere between 5 to 15 technicians, what should they be doing? You know, because resources are limited, time is limited, you know, it's all the standard things I'm sure you hear. How does that get fit into that in terms of training, investing in? I mean, what would you see as a model that a typical HVAC shop should have at that size?

Speaker 1:

Sure, sure. Well, I've always said you need to get in, you need to really get engaged with a couple of vendors, get a good relationship with a couple of brands, because they a good relationship with a couple of brands because they will help you out tremendously. So take advantage of a relationship as a dealer and I know customers want all kinds of different products but really they're going to lean on you. So get a couple you're comfortable with. Go to all their OEM training, learn their products inside and out. Take advantage of all this training they give, listen to them on their business advice, because I mean they want to keep you in business so you can pay your bills and grow, so they can grow, so they have an invested interest, and so I think the biggest thing is to do that. And then, you know, take advantage.

Speaker 1:

These days there's some really great YouTuber out there that I can vet beyond myself, and there's more out there that I just don't know about. You know, and so it's really good is to get them engaged in some training. We do, like I do, webinars. So for companies that can't, you know, afford to bring me there or just don't have the time for me to get there, I'll do a one-hour webinar and it works out perfect. We'll just do little segments that's super focused on certain products or certain you know components and and that works out real well for those guys too.

Speaker 3:

How does that work? Do you usually like have an agenda for that particular company going in, or do you have just a standard thing that you cover? How does that work?

Speaker 1:

Well, you know being I've been teaching it and investing for 35 years, literally teaching since, like the first year, I got out part-time. I have a lot of resources and I can customize anything they want. I did create a standard catalog that'll get them in the right direction. And but then after that, if they say, you know what I'd like to see more about electronic expansion valves. I want to see more about airflow, which is by far the weakest of all training is airflow and that's my love. My love is teaching anything to do with air. Everybody's heavy on electrical training, heavy on refrigerant training, but airflow is it and a lot of people just don't understand it. It's a very high level engineering concept but I like to bring it down to a very practical boots on the ground concept to make it where they can go out in the field and fix problems. I saw that as a tech rep. 90% of the time it was airflow that was causing electrical airflow that was causing refrigerant problems.

Speaker 3:

Wow, so just switching gears a little bit. I kind of want to circle back to something that I forgot to ask you. You kind of had a funny incident, you know, just in terms of a disaster on a job that you had shared with me and when learning about you, could you share that? Because I thought it was funny and I meant to ask you a little bit earlier in the conversation. Yeah, yeah, yeah, still want to cover it.

Speaker 1:

I got two, but I'm going to tell you that one, if we got time I'll tell you the second one, but because the second one's got a good lesson to learn too. But the first one was, yeah, being my senior tech. We had just hammer, hammer, hammer to stay organized, stay organized, stay organized. And so at the time I was still being, basically, I was one of the lead techs and that was the way the business was structured. I had somebody in the office who took care of all the calls and the billing, and so I could go out there and do what I love doing at the time. So me and him built this appointment booklet and I mean we went to details in this thing and it was in this little three ring binder, you know, that was the size of a diary, you know. And so we got it going. We got it all lined up, we jumped in the truck. I said, ok, here we go. So I'm driving down the road, coming out of the little residential area, and I look he's talking, just talking away, and I'm talking to him and I look over and on the left fender of the hood there said my diary. Well, it was three ring, no book, no zipper. I mean, that thing was just sitting there and it was just fluttering, fluttering so precariously and I just froze and I said my mouth I gave to, he stopped and goes. What's the matter? I said, and as soon as I looked again, it flew right past me. It just the wind picked it up and as soon as I stopped, you know, I went to stop and of course it kept going and I said the notebook just flew off the hood of the truck. And I said the notebook just flew off the hood of the truck and he goes, what? We opened the car door and it was scattered across the road, across yards, and there's that point where it's so breaking. You either crack hysterically or you're going to crack and just start shooting something. Well, me and him, we cracked hysterically, we started crying and laughing so hard. He couldn't get off the ground, I couldn't get off the ground. We were crawling all fours like dogs, grabbing these papers and crying and screaming. At the same time A lady came out and looked at us and we said we're sorry, but we couldn't even talk, so nuts, and she just went back inside. So we grabbed all of the papers, we shoved them in the notebook and it looked like something out of a Harry Potter movie that ate all of its papers. And we sat back in the truck, got ourselves together, opened it up, grabbed the first thing on top and said here we go. We just took off.

Speaker 1:

Almost as bad whenever I'd organize all my screws and wire, nuts and everything in this super organized, clear top container I had both sides so nicely done, spent all this time doing it. I was on the first job. I had somebody helping me. He didn't close it and lock it. He closed it but didn't lock it. He picked it up and they all spilled out in the grass. Oh, so, of course it's. You know, five o'clock in the afternoon, six o'clock, you know. We shove it all grass, bury everything else back in there. Two weeks later I finally get to where I can sit down. I pull them all over a table. I resorted to every single one of them. It had two sides. I clipped one side, flip the other side over, checked it all out, closed lid, picked it up. I forgot to lock that one and I spilled everything back on the table. That was it. I scraped them all in there, closed the lid. That was it I was done.

Speaker 1:

I don't blame you Stay organized, just be sure you follow behind it. But yeah, that right, there was a hilarious story that I'll never forget. Matter of fact, he passed of cancer and at his funeral I told that story and everybody was crying. We were laughing, laughing. I know he was laughing too.

Speaker 3:

How did you deal with when you were running your own businesses around, like quoting and profitability especially the second one, because it sounds like kind of things came together there for you. Were you trying to meet a certain profit margin or what were you doing in terms of Yep?

Speaker 1:

Had a great, great mentor and I definitely would like to mention his name because he's done hundreds of us. His name is Scott Ritchie. He's made a book I think it's just called Money, but it's about HVAC businesses Probably the easiest read best all of his practices that we learned and Scott Ritchie and he goes around the trains as well, but we had him personally before he got real big so I got him cheap back then but he taught us very well on how to look at overhead and profit and everything, and so he taught us what a true gross profit margin is and how to look at that. And then the second thing that helped me tremendously was I went to flat rate pricing back in the day when it was on paper, not digital, and now it's digital and it's so much easier and that will just even out a company's highs and lows in minutes. It's the best thing I ever did. And when I went back in business again it was all on my, it was all on our phones. It was so quick and easy and everything was already pre-priced. The company updates according to the area's pricing of parts and components, so you ain't got to take a track of that Best thing. And there's several flat rate. You know software out there so I really couldn't tell you one over the other. You have to look and see which one fits your company. But that between flat rate and learning from Scott Ritchie was the best thing.

Speaker 1:

So that made my second business right off the bat the best and you got to start day one. You must have contracts. That's the backbone of a growing service company because it keeps you committed to the customer and my idea was that a customer never has to call us. We always call them and say, hey, it's time to do the maintenance and they liked that. I had somebody solely dedicated to call, set schedule, register all their equipment. I didn't want the customer to have to do anything and I wanted to do everything for the customer and they loved it. And when I sold that company, my contracts was my network. It was beautiful.

Speaker 3:

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Speaker 1:

When I sold that company, my contracts was my network. It was beautiful.

Speaker 3:

And by contracts you mean like annual service agreements. Yeah, you know it's interesting. What's your philosophy on this? Because I've had a handful of guests now and they all have kind of a different take on how they structure the agreements. I have. I have one that does it like it's a club and basically, um, they won't you have to be in the club to actually get emergency service. So that's kind of their pitch is, you know, and they and basically people call for emergency service and then they get them into the club is what essentially happens and they get a little bit of a discount their first time around and they get some points. And then I have another one where they don't do anything like that. They just include diagnostic checks and they actually credit back the annual service agreement into a future replacement. So they'll literally add them up every year and then you get a credit back. What's your take? And have you seen how did you structure a movie? What do you think works best? Or is, does it depend on business size and geography? What's your opinion on that?

Speaker 1:

Well, it definitely depends on the business size and their business model, because you know you don't really make any profit off of service agreements but they're there to just create that relationship really.

Speaker 3:

That goodwill, frankly, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:

And then after that each company has to decide how much they're going to put into it and spell it out very clearly. You know, we went in and I just did it the way I was trained, which we tore the unit apart, did a full service cleaning, and if you get the one that's never been serviced and it's a mess, it's going to take three hours to dismantle it. Well, now you've gone out of standard service call and now you're at a more of a diagnostics call. You know like, okay, you know, and now we can take pictures where you know used to, they had to work for, you know, but I can do videos and pictures and we can go up and say, hey, this is not great.

Speaker 1:

And so we structured ours to where you know where you get a discount If you sign. You show up and you say, hey, if you like the contract, you get a discount while we're here on the stuff that you got. And then we'll also sign you up for the next service agreement Summer, it'd be a spring and a fall maintenance and then every second service. So if we sign them up, say it was summertime, we got them going we would say, okay, we'll be out in the fall, and so the contract will cover a fall and a spring, and at the spring service contract we'd come out with a new one in our hand, say okay, here's the new one. So we were always actively making sure that they were on contract. But we didn't do checks. We did actual service, cleaning, everything. But being an OEM, a manufacturer's tech rep, I was on a lot of jobs and I was called to several court cases as a subject matter expert and if they didn't have spelled out what they're supposed to be doing, they were in a hurt. They really were.

Speaker 3:

So just spell it out. In other words, if they're vague in their contract, the courts could hold them potentially to being responsible for more than maybe they thought they weren't going to be responsible.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, there's. There's the one argument that if you're vague you can kind of say whatever you want, but but, but when I've been in those courtrooms that did not fly, yeah, you know. But the guys that had it spelled out they said, no, sir, you look right here. It says we inspect, inspect, inspect and on this particular job we recommend it. And they recorded. And the customer said not at this time they were covered. But if they, you know, said hey, we're here and we're inspecting things and we see that your contact is getting worn out, we recommend you replace it, they say no, and there's no record of that, none. Then when that contactor fails two months later, in the middle of the summer, and the customer says well, guys, we're here just two months ago and told me everything's perfectly fine, and if they don't have a record that they recommended a contact replacement, that customer can give them some headaches, they might get out of it. But trust me, fighting the legal battle, in the end, if you win, you still fought and it ain't no fun.

Speaker 1:

Yeah and spend a lot on legal fees probably Money, and emotion and, as a company owner, I have had many restless nights worried about certain situations, you know. And so the emotional toll on a company owner when those things happen is equal to or greater than the financial toll.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, what do you think, both from a technician standpoint and a business owner standpoint, should be the mindset shift these respective parties need to make to thrive in today's markets and economy. What's your thoughts around that? What's your mindset that you need to thrive in today's markets and economy? What's your thoughts around that? Like, what's your mindset that you need to have in today's markets?

Speaker 1:

First of all, you got to stay on top of the technology. It is changing tremendously and I would say you got to make sure that technicians have the proper tools and they're using their tools. I've done a lot of training and I come to find out they don't have the right tools. They really don't even it's. You know, a lot of times they don't know what they don't know. You know what I mean. So we've got to make sure that they're up to date on what tools are out, what, what's available, what the equipment's doing, what's the new technology coming out.

Speaker 1:

And then, secondly, I would say and this is just me, but I've always wanted to treat the customer the way I'd want to be treated as a customer, and a lot of customers, you know, if they don't know you, they're suspicious that you're just there to rip them off, right For sure. And I would say that we need to view a customer as a person that has financial limitations just like the rest of us. It don't matter what size house they got or how big it is. They can have a $500,000 house but be a million dollars in debt, and so don't let the surroundings fool you. Simple means or lavishly doesn't mean they can't afford it. But don't look there to try to milk them. Be careful, it's tempting. Don't take advantage of their ignorance. It'll come back to you in a good way if you take care of them.

Speaker 1:

And then, secondly, I would say you know, just don't spend their money. In other words, when it is time to make a decision, don't assume they're just going to go for the low end. Give them options and let them choose. Like you know, you wouldn't know that I'm a nerd. I'm a nerd guy. I love electronics as well as HVAC and I love people and I want to know what's the best out there. And let me decide if I want to spend that extra $50 a month. I'm going to finance it most of the time anyway. So if you're next to 50 bucks, I get all this stuff. I'm like, tell me about it. But if all you do is show me the lowest price thing, then you kind of shorted me. So don't be afraid to show them the high-end stuff, no matter what the situation looks like, and let them choose and you'll get a better profit margin. They'll get something they like.

Speaker 1:

And don't go in cheap just to get the job, because then you'll get used like a ragged dog and you'll start throwing them in cutting corners because all of a sudden you realize how you went too cheap and before you know it you're you're in the hole. And a lot of guys do that and they really get in a bind. And I'd rather have five quality jobs than 10. Just you know terrible jobs, that it's going to give me a bad reputation and callbacks and all that. I figured. If they're going to spend six, eight, ten, twelve thousand dollars, let's make sure they get eight, ten, twelve thousand dollars what they paid for. If I pay a thousand dollars for a phone, I want that joke to work perfectly. You know, if I pay twelve thousand over something, I want somebody to take the time and make sure it's doing right. And that's the other thing too. No startup records. That gets them in a big trouble. You got to have recorded startup records. If you don't have that, when the court day comes, you're in big trouble really.

Speaker 3:

Oh man, big time yeah, you know it's interesting. Something you just brought up just really resonated with me, and this is true for many industries. So if you're not in HVAC, it doesn't really matter, because it probably applies to you too, but that's whole. That's the whole concept of taking bad jobs versus good jobs. I think we fall into this trap of you know, all business is good business. Or maybe you're in a point where you need business and you let your judgment go by and you take something on and it ends up being a massive headache. You end up working twice as hard and you make half as much, and that's the one that it can sting bad, and a lot of times you have to learn school hard knocks, experience right, right, I mean I think we've all done it right.

Speaker 1:

Oh yeah, absolutely I've done it, and you know, and then make the best of it, because if you do go back and you do take care of it and you give the customer a good experience, even though it started out bad, they will stick with you. I've seen that over and over and over. People can take the money and leave, but the minute there's a problem, how they deal with that problem will get them more recognition or negative, negative or positive way, more than just the one job that went in great, it really makes a difference.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, that's a good one. What advice would you give to someone and maybe we've already covered this a little bit, but what advice would you give to like a new business owner in the HVAC space? Like, what should they be thinking? What should they be doing to be growing a healthy business?

Speaker 1:

Number one a lesson I didn't learn at first, because I love spending money that I don't have is Don't we all Careful, careful, careful? Don't go out there and buy that big bad truck and it looks like it's only $400 a month and you think you're going to make $10,000 a month, but let me tell you the taxes and the tires and the brakes and all that rolls around insurance on that one vehicle, and try to keep expenses low. When I did my second company, I bought used service trucks from a commercial company. I sent them to EconoPaint job and for $300, they made those trucks look like they were brand spanking new. They ran great. I needed them to look good and do the service and they did the best thing I ever did.

Speaker 1:

I own both trucks, outright no problem. So be careful, keep your debt low, keep your overhead low. The other thing is I can't stress enough is going to these business seminars for HVAC companies, and contracts is the backbone of service companies. If you don't know how to build a contract, go to Scott Ritchie's stuff. Another one is Ruth King. She's another good one. And hey, these days you can buy legalized contracts done for you, ready to go.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, and on that note because you brought his name up again, scott Ritchie. Done for you, ready to go? Yeah, and on that note because you brought his name up again, scott Ritchie. His book is named Make More Money 12 Profit Pillars for HVAC Contractor Success by Scott Ritchie, and Ritchie is R-I-T-C-H-E-Y. That's the book you're referring to, right?

Speaker 1:

That is it, and I can tell you many, many stories of guys that have grown tremendously well a wealthy, profitable, tremendously wealthy profitable, with a good company based off of Scott Ritchie's training.

Speaker 3:

Wow, that's really cool. And then this brings up one of my final questions. He was a mentor to you. Where do you feel mentors place in running your own business? Like have you always been a big user of mentors and it seems like you're kind of playing that role as a trainer now? Where do you do? Do you highly advocate people go out and find the right mentor for there to grow and get to where they want to go?

Speaker 1:

I do and I me. I'm a very relational person, so when I would go to dealer meetings I would engage with these more experienced company owners and build relationships and they love to help you out. I really love the HVAC community. We're very close. I always say that. You know, once you get hooked into HVAC, you never leave the neighborhood, you just change houses. You know. But, yes, go and find older, experienced, successful HVAC contractors and learn from them. Be humble, Listen to them and they can teach you a lot and they'd love it. You know, just you know. Get them a drink and sit down and, boy, you'll be there for a while. They love sharing, especially the older ones, because they're okay. They're not, you know, they're not trying to own the world. I mean, competition is good, but they really will help you.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, that's good stuff, and then, as we get closer to wrap up, I'd love to learn a little bit more about your services. Who's your ideal client? Who are you trying to help? Who would make sense for maybe to reach out to you?

Speaker 1:

Oh, thank you. So residential, light commercial and commercial I do all three areas of training. My training goes to I love teaching technicians and office personnel what HVAC is, and I go anywhere from five service techs, five people in the office, two people in the office, all the way up to I'll do webinars, for I've done webinars for hundreds and hundreds of online. You know. So if you've got a company that's got multiple branches everywhere, and a lot of times I'll get called in, maybe to the main headquarters for an initial connection with all the folks, and then after that I'll just do webinars and they'll all call in and I just love engaging with them. So you know, my bread and butter is HVAC training for service techs and then I call it non-technical HVAC training for office professionals.

Speaker 3:

How do you usually set that up for technicians? Is it just a one-off, or is it part of kind of like an academy thing where they're going through different stages?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's usually a series. We'll pick a series and then we'll just you know, I'll talk with the company owner. So here's what I've got, here's what you want. And then another good good thing to look at is if you can track your warranty callbacks and you'll find out where everybody's struggling. Those are really hot spots for training, could you?

Speaker 3:

elaborate on that a little bit. So yeah, sure, people call back related to warranty. What would you, what would you want to do there? I think that there's some gold there.

Speaker 1:

Oh, absolutely, and I have not seen many people do this and I've told them over and over. I wish I'd have done this when I was at my first company is in the same company. I started doing this, but if you will create your own account of yourself. So we created Mr Callback or something like that, you know. And so if I sent a technician out and it was a callback, so we didn't, we didn't charge the customer. We still created a ticket as if we were charging the customer, but we charged Mr Callback and then with full details, all right, and then we put that on our ledger and then every month I would go and pull up Mr Callback's tickets, and then we could see a trend.

Speaker 1:

Oh my gosh, you know, four circuit boards were replaced the first time around. That didn't fix it. We went back. What fixed it? It was a loose, a loose wire, or it was a pressure switch. That was a problem. It was an intermittent issue and they, you know, targeted the circuit board, as always, as the first problem, which it hardly ever is.

Speaker 1:

And so we began to be able to pick out training, and if I could get companies to monitor their training also, the return on investment was tremendous, because the cost of that ticket on a callback is not the cost for the company, because not only are you losing a revenue for having the technician on that job, but he's not on another job making revenue and that could have turned into a replacement, that could have turned to a new customer, a new contract customer.

Speaker 1:

I mean, one callback can cost anywhere from $500,000 to $10,000. And if you get a customer that fires you because of callbacks, one customer typically is worth about $30,000 in their lifetime because of the referrals Wow is worth about $30,000 in their lifetime because of the referrals Wow. So if you lose that, just think about and a lot of guys they don't invest in training because they don't see the return on investment upfront. But if I say two callbacks on training, that's an easy $2,000 return. Yeah. So that's one of the things that I would say is track your callbacks in a separate account, look at the money that you're bleeding and also use it as a training. Focus on what you need to train.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, that's cool. That's good stuff. Hey Joey, if people wanted to reach out to you, where's the best place for them to go?

Speaker 1:

If you Google Jojo the HVAC man that's my tagline and you can find me on YouTube. You can find me on TikTok, instagram and LinkedIn and I'm not sure if my agent put me on anything else or there's anything left, but I think there's something. But the biggest ones I get is and Facebook, of course, yeah, facebook, but the biggest ones are YouTube, linkedin and TikTok. I would say those are the biggies.

Speaker 3:

And then if people want to reach out to you, they just message you on any one of those platforms? Yeah, if you Exactly.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you can reach out through. You can instant message me through LinkedIn, through TikTok or through my YouTube account, no problem. I do have a website as well. It's a, it's a jojohvaccom, and at the moment, some reason, it's down, but when it's up, you can contact me through there as well. But those are the places you can instant message me, no problem.

Speaker 3:

Okay, it sounds like you're pretty responsive on social media and even maybe just closing here. You have spent a lot of time building your branding on social media. What's what's your thoughts around that? Is that something that all business owners in the HVAC space should be doing? What are your thoughts?

Speaker 1:

Without question. I had no idea how fast a response I'd be getting. Youtube took a while to build and it's still building. Tiktok went off like a rocket. I went to zero and in two days I had over 4,000 subscribers Wow and actively watching. Just little shorties that I'll put out there and then they can go to my YouTube to see others, but I'll just do little tidbits of little nuggets and they love it. I didn't really. I mean, of course I look at TikTok just to watch pictures, you know videos of dogs and cats, you know. But it's really become a great market and a way to reach people that you could never reach before.

Speaker 3:

I saw one of your videos. I think you had like a 20-ounce porterhouse. If I remember correctly, it was a giant steak or something. You were by the beach, you and your wife, I think it was. Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that was a 32-ounce ribeye steak that they cut it up in sections. It was my birthday, I and we, we, we shared half of a half and took the rest back. But uh, I had to try it. I'd never. I'm a griller, I love grilling steaks and all, but I'd never seen a 32 ounce steak.

Speaker 3:

So when I saw it in your picture, I'm like, hey, I hope you're going to be around to make my podcast here. After seeing that I saw it in your picture, I'm like I hope you're going to be around to make my podcast here after seeing that it definitely was a two-day meal, that's for sure.

Speaker 1:

That's awesome.

Speaker 3:

Okay, man. Hey, thanks so much for your time. Yeah, I really appreciate what you're doing for the community and appreciate you spending time on here to share. Thank you, share with us.

Speaker 1:

It was awesome. I really enjoyed it. Anytime, I really Okay, joey.

Speaker 3:

Hey, take care. Okay, thanks, tyler. All right, bye-bye, all right. That was Joey. I hope you caught some of those gold nuggets. Here's my take. What really struck with me is Joey's shift from building a business around himself to building a brand that stood on its own. That mindset is what allows owners to grow, delegate and eventually exit. He also made a great point about training. Most businesses under-invest in it and it quietly eats into their profits through callbacks, burned out techs and missed upsell opportunities. If you're a service business owner, think about how you're building your company around you, around something that's actually scalable. If you liked this episode, consider leaving a quick review or send it to someone in your network who could use it. Thanks for listening. I see you next time on Profiting Graded.

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Tyler Martin

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