Profit & Grit with Tyler
Profit and Grit is the no-BS weekly podcast for home service business owners and blue collar entrepreneurs. Each episode features real strategies from successful contractors and industry experts in HVAC, plumbing, electrical, roofing, and other trades. Hosted by Tyler Martin, a fractional CFO for home service businesses and the trades, Profit & Grit dives into growth, cash flow, hiring, pricing, and leadership. If you own or want to grow a business in the trades, this home service podcast will help you build a stronger, more profitable company.
Profit & Grit with Tyler
Stuck at $1M-$10M? The Free Marketing Hack Home Service Businesses Miss - Michael Venidis
After a near-death experience being shot and left for dead in a park, Mike Venitas found his superpower in genuine gratitude and turned it into a thriving career helping home service businesses grow and scale.
• Marketing strategies differ dramatically based on company size and stage
• Businesses under $1 million should focus on building networks and finding "who" rather than figuring out "how"
• Companies in the $3-5 million range shouldn't jump immediately to paid advertising
• Larger businesses must thoroughly vet marketing agencies by examining reporting systems and industry specialization
• Your Google Business Profile does more heavy lifting than most realize but is often neglected
• Artificial intelligence is transforming marketing - watch Thumbtack's partnership with OpenAI
• Every marketing strategy should follow the three-part approach: rank, engage, convert
• When responding to negative reviews, remember the entire world is watching how you handle conflict
• Focus on creating money through existing relationships rather than constantly chasing new leads
• YouTube Shorts currently generate more reach than other social platforms for free content
If you want to talk about making better financial decisions while scaling your business, grab a time with Tyler for a quick intro call at cfomadeeasy.com - no pitch, just a conversation.
🎙️ Profit & Grit by Tyler Martin
Real stories. Real strategy. Real results for service-based business owners.
🔗 Website: ProfitAndGrit.com
📍 LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/thinktyler
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Tyler Martin, a fractional CFO for home services and the trades
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But the second thing I'll say is there's an element of being genuine too. That appreciation and that gratitude creates this perspective. You know, for me, every room I walk into like I just I'm me and take it or leave it. You know, like when you feel dated and you have a close call with death, that level of appreciation for life, I think, puts you in this position where you start to realize, hey, as I walk into these rooms, there are going to be people I rub the wrong way and there are going to be people that I rub the right way. But when your days are limited, you worry less about the people you rub the wrong way and it gives you the ability to truly be comfortable in your own skin.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Profit and Grit with Tyler, where blue-collar owners and insiders spill the real story behind their hustle, building businesses that thrive through sweat and smarts. We'll dig into their journeys, from scaling chaos to growing the bottom line, with lessons and grit that pay off big. Here's your host, the blue collar CFO, tyler Martin.
Speaker 3:Michael Vanitas was shot and left for dead in a park and somehow that moment became the start of a powerful career helping home service businesses grow and win. Today, on Profit and Grit, I sit down with Mike. He's the CXO at Rhino Strategic Solutions. It's a marketing firm built exclusively for home service businesses. Mike's worked with over a thousand contractors and he's seen exactly what separates the $2 million operators from the ones who scale past 10 million. We talk about surviving rock bottom, rebuilding from nothing and the hard truths behind marketing that actually works. If you've ever wondered when to hire an agency, how to get more out of your Google profile or why some companies crush it without paid ads, this one is for you. Let's get into it. Hey, mike, welcome to the Profit and Grit Show. How are you doing today?
Speaker 1:Tyler, I could never be better man. It's good to be here. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 3:Yeah, thanks for being here, man. Hey, I'd love to start out. Love to learn a little bit about you. What you do professionally would be the first thing. What is that?
Speaker 1:Well, I'm the CXO of a digital marketing agency that has existed since 2008. It's called Rhino Strategic Solutions and it's existed solely for the home services. Man, it's all we've done Like it's solely built, just for contractors.
Speaker 3:That's awesome and I think you mentioned to me when we had our first conversation like you've personally worked with over a thousand service businesses. Is that correct?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I mean we have well past a thousand now. If you count everything over the years, it's probably even more than that.
Speaker 3:That's crazy. That's a lot of knowledge and expertise you have in your head, totally.
Speaker 1:I mean it's one of my favorite things about being in an agency. You know agencies like prioritization because you're representing so many contractors throughout the country. You know it's an art within itself. But the amount of people you get to meet and the respect that you get, like just working with so many entrepreneurs and hearing their stories and how passionate they are and the lives that they change, like it's a very fulfilling job, feels meaningful. So it's not hard to get passionate man Like it feels meaningful and it's a great way to live life.
Speaker 3:That's so cool. It man Like it feels meaningful and it's a great way to live life. That's so cool, hey. So how about on a personal level? I'd love to know anything about you personally that you're open to sharing, Maybe even something people don't commonly know, Something people don't commonly know no kids.
Speaker 1:And I have a purebred Australian shepherd named Halo that I like completely. I'm obsessed with. She's like my little little baby. How old is she?
Speaker 3:She's going to be seven this year. Oh, wow, okay, she's just got a couple of years on her. And then Halo. How'd you get the name Halo? I love that name.
Speaker 1:You know, I can't remember, like it popped up somewhere and I just Just did click, just felt right, you know, like she's just a, she's just a sweet dog, you know. But an even better fact man is like a lot of people don't know that my wife, jacqueline, is our VP of digital marketing at Rhino. I mean, she's such an operator, she hides behind the scenes and people don't realize that. You know, we've been together about 12 years and she's been a Rhino for seven of those years. So she got a very similar story in how she wound up at the company, started as like a contractor and now she runs like all of our services and products and she just kind of hides behind the scene and she's a doer man.
Speaker 3:Wow, that's pretty cool. Did she end up getting at Rhino because of you in some way? Did she apply for the job because you knew about it, or how'd that work out?
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, when I started 13 years ago, you know it's, it's a job and we had, like, this particular role where we would listen to phone calls just to make sure that we were taking credit for the right leads, Like our reporting, it was a big thing for us. Yeah, we wanted to make sure that contractors truly knew what was and wasn't a lead. It was about transparency and being ethical, but like we would need people that we could train to listen to the call so they knew what they were listening for, because we felt like you know, robots and calls that were past 30 seconds, like that wasn't an accurate reflection of truly a generation, you know. So at the time she was going to school for dental and it was just a way to make some side money. Like we had a basic ten dollar an hour thing and she's awesome, and so she would do that on the side because she knew it was an option and here we are.
Speaker 3:That is so impressive, wow. Okay, I want to get into your story. You've got an awesome story. The way I want to kind of break this out very heartfelt story, I should say. And in addition to awesome, because you overcame it, I want to talk about your personal story and then I want to get a little bit into marketing and I want to learn from you, tap into all those years of wisdom in terms of strategy and some things that we can help businesses do better home services, businesses do better. So, with your story, where I want to start is you had a very pivotal moment in your twenties. You were shot and literally left for dead. I think you were. How many times were you shot? Twice, twice, yeah, twice.
Speaker 1:At the same time. That's always the joke that I make. It's funny. People look at me and they go. Man, this guy probably deserved it, because I'm felled from back down. You know, it's one big one and I'm like no guys, it was just an unfortunate event. I was the wrong place at the wrong time, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:So basically tell us the story. If you don't mind, share it. And then I want to kind of segue into what that happened after you were left there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, you know I was just at an art walk in downtown Phoenix and the wild thing is it was like the first time I'd ever been to an art walk, like I'm 25 and I just, you know they called it for Friday and you know I was just with a couple of friends doing the hanging out, having a good time, like rolling around, walk up and down the street, watch the vendors eat the food, you know all the things. And when the night came to an end, we were separated and we just came across a group and you know things just went sideways and we ended up getting targeted. It was an attempted robbery. You know they had occurred up. Getting targeted. It was a an attempted robbery. You know that had occurred. Uh, they found me walking back to the car through the park and, uh, yeah, just went sideways, man, and you know I I don't think it would have been as traumatic like if I wasn't left there, you know, throughout the night.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because that's what really caused the need for some emergency surgeries, like right away, and, honestly, the fact that it was an emergency. I almost think that they did more harm Well, I shouldn't say harm. The recovery process was more difficult because of the actual operation that needed to be done versus the gunshot which I am. It's such a blessing man because the things that you learn throughout having to spend such a long time like in the lowest of your low I think that really teed me up for success as I started to rebuild my life and start this new journey in my marketing career.
Speaker 3:Wow. So how did you ultimately get found? Because it sounds like nobody was crossing over you until was it overnight, until they found you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was pretty wild.
Speaker 1:I mean, I was there for hours, like at this point it's it was back in um, oh man, 2012. So it's hard to remember the details without reading the police report, but I was there quite some time. And then what makes the story even more wild is there was four of us and there was a couple that got split off, and when they were actually walking home, I mean it's God's work, literally, because there's so many paths that they could have taken, and the irony in the fact that they took the same exact path and found me of all people, the people that I actually did the art walk with that to me is still mind boggling. As a matter of fact, you shout out to my buddy Rick. It was actually his birthday yesterday and he was the one, so I don't get to see him as much these days, but man, like the amount of gratitude you have for somebody, like like he's the guy that'll get the love for me, uh, and to support anything he needs, anything he wants, like I'm always going to come through, yeah, that's crazy.
Speaker 3:So you get found and then now talk to me. Now you have to go through rehabilitation. Thank God Surgery sounds like they had to be pretty aggressive and a quick, just to make sure you know you stayed alive. But then there were the ramifications of that. What was that like the next year, or however long it was to actually rehabilitate?
Speaker 1:Well, the year was hard, man. You know I talk about the story a lot in a lot of podcasts and everybody talks about the shooting but nobody talks about the rehabilitation. So I get you asking the question you know a lot of things people don't know is like when you're in rehabilitation, like you have a mindset challenge to you, like you start question yourself so much and it's like life is ever going to be okay again, which is really hard. So I spiral. You know. I mean the actual gunshot surgery and recovery process was probably you know we'll call it four to five months, but what made it like a year is it just kept getting worse, like the fact that I wasn't able to do all the things that I was doing before I got shot.
Speaker 1:You know I used to front, I used to front man in rock band and like I couldn't sing, I couldn't tour, um, you know, and that and that type of career like you barely make ends meet, you know. So financially I was stressed, I had medical bills, you know. So what happens? Like you start spiraling and you know I had bartended, like in between the music, uh, touring, and like obviously you hang out in those crowds and those scenes, like you know, like I was drinking more because I couldn't work out, I couldn't do anything, and when you start drinking you get in trouble. So, you know, I ended up breaking my foot, like after drinking too much, you know, on my birthday that year. So then you got that that you got to deal with. I mean, long story short, I spiraled, that's. That's really what I'm trying to say.
Speaker 1:But you know, at the end of the day, like this company was the silver lining in all that, I mean the fact that I needed to pay the bills. You know, I had known Anna Yano. She was a friend of a friend. You know we connected on social media and stayed in touch. After there was a group celebration one year, you know, and she had seen a post where I needed to just get a job because I couldn't work for the first 45 months. I couldn't bartend, I couldn't walk, I couldn't wait tables. So I would sit in my hospital bed, listen to phone calls, just like you know my wife was doing when she started, and that was the beginning of this career.
Speaker 1:Man, but like the thing about it is like when you take hardship and you go through recovery and you're going through a year of what is the hardest year of your life, you learn this art of gratitude, and I was able to tap into that gratitude and apply it, you know, and change my approach and my mindset towards this company. There's such a level of appreciation that it's not hard to be passionate and go all in. You know and yeah, I think that there's a mixture of elements to that, because you know Chris and Anna, like they are great people, and working closely with them throughout that period of time too, had opened so many doors. So at this point, I mean it was just the perfect recipe at the perfect time and I think it really teed us up to do special things for the years to come.
Speaker 3:It sounds like during that rehabilitation years, the downtimes, the, the challenges, the not knowing I think what I'm hearing you say is one of your biggest takeaways is just being grateful for things. Is that right? And was there something else that you would say really defined you? Because those are like defining moments when you have to battle through low points in your life and nobody, very few people, have gotten lower than you. When you have to fight through two bullet in your life and nobody, very few people have gotten lower than you. When you have to fight through two bullet, wounds and surgery and rehabilitation Like what do you think defined you there? Is it the gratitude? Is there something else that you feel like when things get hard? Do you have a different perspective now?
Speaker 1:For sure, man. I mean, I think there's two things I'll say to that is one question yes, like gratitude is a superpower and I do think that the lowest of the low did give me that gift, you know, and I try to remain humble by it because I didn't choose it, like I was gifted with it, right? You know, I think some people like how do you find that gift and learn that art naturally? So in some ways I empathize for a lot of people because they struggle to figure out how to find that superpower. I do think that gratitude is essential. I mean, I have a hat that says gratitude. I wear it every single Sunday when I go to church.
Speaker 1:I'm very intentional about my level of being grateful. And listen, I'm far from perfect too. I have hard days. I mean there'll be people that question that and I'm okay with Right.
Speaker 1:But the second thing I'll say is there's an element of of being genuine to that appreciation and that gratitude creates this perspective.
Speaker 1:You know, for me, every room I walk into like I just I'm me and take it or leave it. You know, like when you have, when you feel dated and you have a close call with death, that level of appreciation for life, I think puts you in this position where you start to realize, hey, as I walk into these rooms, there are going to be people I rub the wrong way and there are going to be people that I rub the right way. But when your days are limited, you worry less about the people you rub the right way, but when your days are limited you worry. You worry less about the people you rub the wrong way and it gives you the ability to truly be comfortable in your own skin. Next thing you know you're creating auras and positivity and that attraction really helps you get you know with the right people that are healthy for you in your life. Right, because successful, healthy leaders are. They can spot, you know, healthy good character and healthy good character comes from hardship, like if you do the right things throughout it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's, that's good, that's powerful. Hey, by the way, just on a side note, did they ever catch who shot you?
Speaker 1:They did. He turned out to be a 13 year old kid.
Speaker 3:Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:Yep Gang affiliation. We caught him but he did get away with it because the par I mean it was my word against his and um the end of the day. You know, the prosecutor had asked me if I was a hundred percent sure and I minced words. I mean, I told him listen, man, if you're asking me to tell you that I'm a hundred percent sure and determine the fate of a 13 year old child, his entire future, I'm going to actually tell you that I'm 98. How about that? Because I don't want that on my conscience, you know, and still to this day, like you have a lot of people that go.
Speaker 1:Well, what if he went out and he hurt somebody else? And I'm like, but what if I was wrong and he has a chance, you know, at life? Or what if he actually gets his life right because he saw what had happened with me and woke up and learned from it? Like I don't want to go about life looking at the downside and thinking about harm and worry, like I'd rather think about the purpose and the opportunity that comes from the unfortunacy of something. So I still try to find the kid to his day. I won't put his name out there, but he's got two first names.
Speaker 1:So when I search for him, man, it's really hard.
Speaker 1:But like it's still kind of a life goal someday to just sit down and have dinner with this kid, really I would love to just like.
Speaker 1:And the thing is is he was forgiven you know, the week it happened, like you know I, uh, I would just love to to sit across the table and have a conversation with him and and ask man, I'd be curious if he turned his life around or just see what it was like to be him. We could talk about me, but I just want to know what's going through his head and what made him tick and why he felt the need to do that. Because I empathize, I sympathize for people that do things that are misguided, because I truly believe at the core of every single person there is a good human being and there's this false perception that they think they're doing good or doing right and that they have to do certain things that are so harmful to the world when in fact they really don't. They just need people to support them and open up their eyes to see that there are different things out there.
Speaker 3:There's man so many things going through my head on that. I mean it's such a personal decision in how you framed your discussion of whether you were 100% sure or not on whether he shot you. That's so personal. I mean I wouldn't even know where to begin, because I can empathize with you to a large degree, like last thing you want is a 13-year-old kid sitting in jail that didn't do it. And I always that 100% always throws me off, because how can you ever be, especially at night, like how can you be like a hundred percent sure? Like I'm highly confident, but a hundred percent sure means like there is just literally zero. I mean, how many times have we seen on TV where people say they're a hundred percent sure and then two years later we find out like it's totally a different person?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're not a hundred percent sure, you're just confident. Sometimes we, we, uh, we just choose the wrong words, but our intent is still there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, that's interesting. And then, as far as meeting him, gosh, I try to put myself as much as I can in your shoes. It would feel so. I mean, that would be cool, obviously, if he's turned his life around and he's really a productive member of community. But there's a part of me like you know what, if he's a gangbanger and you were just you know one mark on his face of many or something, you know that that could be very, I guess, demotivating too.
Speaker 1:And if finding that out but that's the beauty of life, right Is? You got options, and I just would rather live a life with an option that feels better than one that feels worse.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, I get it. I get it. It's interesting. It's interesting discussion, definitely a fun one to talk about. I want to shift gears first. Thank you for sharing that story, cause I think it's definitely defined, probably to some degree, how you are as a person and it's cool. You talking about gratitude, I think we I think we kind of gloss over how many wonderful things, especially in America, that we have, that we don't always take time to be grateful for what we have. Yeah, so, mike, switching gears here, let's talk about like a one to $10 million company, and I know that's pretty wide range, so to take that however you want in terms of breaking it up. But what are the most common mistakes? You see a home service business HVAC, plumbing, whatever. What do you think is the most common mistakes?
Speaker 1:you see a home service business HVAC, plumbing, whatever what do you think is the most common, common marketing mistake that you see them make?
Speaker 1:I mean, I'll give you two and I'll come from the 1 million perspective and the 10 million perspective Okay, and even 10 is probably a lot. I mean, maybe we'll talk five to you know, different stages. Like throughout the business, you have to be focused on different things. You know, when I think about like a newer business with less employees, 1 million, like owners still heavily involved doing the work, you know, one of the first things that comes to mind is like this concept and it's a book that I always talk about on podcasts by Ben Hardy and Dan Sullivan, called who, not how, you know, and I love this book because I think, like, where we commonly make mistakes is we feel this need that we need to figure everything out, we need to know everything, we need to learn everything, we need to do everything. You know, and I think sometimes we get so caught up in the moment of just trying to start the business and keep the business going that we don't take the time to actually stop and do the work of setting ourselves up. And what I mean by that is a network Like have you joined all of these Facebook groups that are existing for home service companies? Have you, you know, have you checked out the BNI group? And that's probably just to get more experience from owning a business right and other areas of opportunity throughout the local area. But like, what is your circle like? Have you spent the time creating a network? Because if you focus on who and not how, sometimes you go faster and you solve things quicker because you have people to help you along the way. And then when I think about the guys in the three to five range where they're just starting to get to a spot where they're entering the marketing game, I think another thing that we often overlook right is like don't be so quick to jump into paid advertising. You know like do the work, build the system, you know, and leverage organic too. You know I'm going to.
Speaker 1:I'm going to give a plug to a gentleman here in Mesa, Arizona. His name's Jason Payne and I've grown to like Jason a lot. Like he's got a $10 million roofing company here called State 48. And if you just go follow him on social like he's got it figured out. The guy doesn't spend any on paid advertising, but he's also not afraid. He just constantly is like always wearing the brand. He's got the brand right. It's memorable, it's green, it stands out. You'll never see him without the hat right.
Speaker 1:I do the same thing, Like the iconic Rhino, like that's my personal brand, right, Because it's a company that I helped build and run, and what you see is like he's just blasting reels everywhere. He just puts everything fearlessly across Facebook and he's just putting it all out there. Right, Because if I'm like constantly getting in front of you, it's the rule of seven, right, Like my mind remembers and thinks of state 48 the minute I have a roofing problem, because I'm always seeing Jason all the time. And he also gives the brand a personality because he's almost like kind of semi internet influencer and that changes how people perceive your organization. So it's a long winded example of really just trying to say, like, before you get into the marketing game, really truly understand how you can leverage the three elements of marketing before you go so quick to just throw all this money at it. Like we think, rule of thumb is oh, I'm making X amount I can have a marketing budget of, you know, 2%, 3% if you're just getting started, you know a lower, more conservative amount, and then we just think about how we're going to spend it, but we don't really think about there are free portions marketing that are just essentially like Google SEO and Google maps instead of Google PPC. Just to elaborate on what I mean when I say it's free, right, Because you're still gonna need to hire somebody to do the actual work the 10 million guys I think.
Speaker 1:For them, on marketing, it's really just understanding how to pick the right partner. You know, and like from the agency side, digitally, I think we jump to digital marketing agencies. We don't vet them out fully. Like what is your reporting look? Like? Because if that's what I'm going to see every month and that's how I'm going to hold you accountable, give me a tour of that before I commit to working with you. Like, explain to me you know the actual components that are going to really truly vet out this partnership, because performance is something that I expect. But like what truly makes you different from the others? You know, like at Rhino, we don't just do digital, we actually do CSR coaching too. Like we don't just give you a lead and say your lead is how many dollars. Like we actually have a team and a department that you can cross over and make sure that the leads are getting booked on top of getting a lead.
Speaker 3:Which is huge, by the way.
Speaker 1:Yes, you know. So I mean I think that when you start to get bigger like that, into the 10 million spot, and you're playing a marketing game, you really should be making sure you've got partners that are really home services oriented, because they understand tactical things. You know, and I want to give free nuggets to your viewers, your listeners An example of that right Is like paid advertising. There's so many ways to strategically do paid advertising. You know, like, have you built the campaigns in a way that you can have three different zones right, like it's seasonality and HVAC. So do you want to drive farther to do more jobs in slow seasons when you're really banking on memberships and there's not a ton of leads because the windows are open? Like, how far are you going out on your paid advertising? How far are you willing to drive to keep your techs and your comfort advisors busy because there's not as many leads there and you don't want to deal with recruitment struggle?
Speaker 1:You know these are just examples of very custom things that you can do in paid advertising that you're not going to get with a very basic marketing agency that's doing everything right. Agencies that got some dentists, they've got some lawyers, they've got, like, find an agency that truly understands you and your organization and your industry, because paid advertising in a reactive buyer's market the majority of uh, you know home service style companies like plumbers and HVAC companies their consumers are reactive due to emergencies, right? So you, you know, the one channel that you have in digital marketing, like fill a job board quickly and strategically is PPC paid advertising on Google. And that's what makes it so expensive, because people have figured it out and every company is relying upon it and it's driving the cost so high that it's becoming harder to be profitable using it.
Speaker 3:Before you spend a dollar on paid ads, I want you to ask yourself this and be honest with yourself Would you choose your business based on your Google profile? That one listing your Google business profile is doing more heavy lifting than you think, and most contractors haven't touched theirs in months. Here's your move Update your photos with real job site shots. Respond to every review, especially the bad ones. Add a short update or offer weekly updates. At least Check your business hours and categories. Are they still accurate? Remember your Google profile is a lead generator, not just a listing, and if you want more tips like this and some help, go visit servicescalerscom and tell them. Tyler sent you.
Speaker 1:And that's what makes it so expensive, because people have figured it out and every company is relying upon it and it's driving the cost so high that it's becoming harder to be profitable using it.
Speaker 3:Right, you mentioned about reporting is kind of the differentiator, and this is interesting. You bring this up because I have had, I have worked with a fair share of marketing agencies and a lot of times they don't have reporting or it's, you know, a spreadsheet or it's. It's kind of ad hoc and it's usually not very intuitive or easy to read. What do you think sets apart? Like talk to me about what is good reporting and give us expectations. What should we be looking for and what should we expect, and is that something we should ask for upfront? So take me through that.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, these days, you know we've been doing it so long that for me it's more about like, what can I do with it? I think for many years there was this trend in the marketing agency that was kind of like, hey, not our baby, not our problem, and I'll elaborate. We would get on these calls and go, hey, our job is to generate the lead, and to generate the lead at a reasonable cost. But then if they weren't booking them or selling them, we would just throw our hands up and go, yep, that's your problem, that's your ops, that's not us, we're doing our part. So you're getting your money's worth Right. And I think, like, as COVID happened and you know, cost went up and competition went up, like there's a lot more PE in the game. What I started to realize that was essential right Is, like you have to bridge that gap between the agency and the contractor, like you can't do that anymore. So, to answer the actual question, like I'm looking for more of reporting that helps me solve that. Like, rather than just hold the agency accountable and tell me how many leads I got, like are you actually helping me spot problems in the organization? Are you helping me realize that I have a booking problem. If I'm having a booking problem, can you help me understand what it is? That type of thing?
Speaker 1:And we completely revamped our reporting system called Rhino Traps 2.0 for that. We use this thing called call intelligence now, and what I love about it is you can literally see the sentiment you can look at. Let's just say you get a hundred calls a month. I'm able to get ratings and grades on how did the caller feel, how did they perceive the service that was offered? How did they perceive the CSR? Did it book? Was this plumbing and HVAC, or was it one or the other? Did it cross sell? Did it upsell? And then to be able to filter and export all of that data so that you can hand operators information to try and assess and find pinpoints within the organization.
Speaker 1:That to me, is a gold mine, because now the agency is providing you with information that allows you to have action. Goldmine because now the agency is providing you with information that allows you to have action, do something and create revenue from within, because I think a lot of business owners they they spend too much time chasing the money when they need to spend more time creating the money. Right, like, how much time are you putting into your memberships and what are your strategies to leverage those memberships? Because it's practically your email list, right? That's your at-bats and that's really your pool and you go. How do I create money out of this group? How do I create value for them? And I just don't really hear a lot of us talking about those things. Instead, it's easier to just call me and yell at me and say I need more leads, but not truly want to take the time to understand why that's not always as easy as you make it sound.
Speaker 3:Right right In that reporting you kind of talked a little bit about the grading the call in terms of getting various sectors. Is that an AI agent doing that now in your software, or how's that getting that level of different grades and feedback on the call? How's that getting done?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is, it is. So what we actually did is, I mean, one of the benefits of being such a large provider is you get access to really talented developers Wow, and the things that they build are honestly, like almost unimaginable. So I mean, it's one of my favorite things that we do. This call analysis AI is what we call it, but, like, what I think is so cool is because we've existed since 2008,. Like, what I think is so cool is because we've existed since 2008,. What we were able to do is take, you know, the recordings and the performance data for the last, you know, 27 years and use it to train this AI. So it's not just like a typical Fathom or Otter recorder. It's an AI that understands the home services and is giving grades based upon what is traditionally expected in this type of environment, versus just giving grades like that are generic, and that's what makes it like a true, you know, truly unique reporting experience compared to a lot of the other agencies that are out there.
Speaker 3:Wow, that's crazy. Yeah, if it's taken historical data and it can kind of leverage against that, it probably is. What's interesting is, as time passes it's able to even take the newer data and then raise the benchmarks or even get more like kind of dialed into what the data should be.
Speaker 1:That's exactly what happened. I mean, it assesses job value on average. Wow, like you'll see a job come through and it goes. This is an estimate of X amount of dollars and that's pretty powerful stuff, right, because I like to understand, like where your most expensive leads and opportunities are sitting. At that, we're missing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I want to talk about this three-part strategy rank, engage, convert. I don't know if that's your methodology or that's Rhino. Could you kind of walk us through that, what it means.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I think it's just breaking down buyer psychology, right. Like rankings is a concept that like what is being done so that you're actually an option to start right. Like if I don't find you on the first page, really everything you're doing is pointless, but it's very like, always misunderstood, especially SEO. Like you get a lot of contractors who they will do a search for themselves and they don't understand why they don't see themselves. Yet they're 45 minutes away from their, their business. They don't understand location, proximity and like a lot of the unique things that are technical but convert right. It's like even if I made you show up at the top, like you still have to be I'm sorry, uh, engaged is what I meant to say. Yeah, I get you to rank at the top. You have to be selected. Like there's still options on this page. You're one of 10. You're still not the choice. So what am I seeing? You know, on Google? Just because you see me is one thing, but the next thing is what do I see? Like in paid advertising? A common problem that people use is like they dump this money into PPC and then they wonder why they don't get conversions. And it's because their specials or their coupons, their advertisements that they're running are the garbage or they don't have any at all. You know be in comparison to the competition. So you know, engage is a concept of how do I get you to choose me once I've narrowed down the process to 10 people on one page and then, at the end of the day, convert right, Like, if you click on me and you've selected me, now there's still this decision on if, like, we're a good fit. In a way, I teach that across the nation, is reputation management right? Like, think about how you go and you look at reviews. Think in your mind, like, how many people don't like? It's such a subconscious thing that we don't realize it.
Speaker 1:I posted some content trying to coach people about how your one stars could essentially be six stars if you were managed them the right way. Because anytime I buy something, I look at the one stars and most of the people I talk to tell me they do the same thing. And I'm like so why do you do that? And you go. Well, you know, because, like, if I'm going to do business with this person and something goes wrong, like this is like that last little thing, I need to just feel good about my choice and like make the call and spend the money, and I'm like, okay, well, that's a conversion tactic. How are you handling those one stars? Because the entire world sees it.
Speaker 1:I get that a one star might not feel good for you as a business owner, but the entire world's watching you. So who are you going to be when you're having that spat in a public environment Because it might cost you a sale tomorrow? That spat in a public environment because it might cost you a sale tomorrow, and that's just one example of like. There's so many things that really causes conversion to happen. So you really need to break down the buyer psychology into those three stages right Rank, engage, convert. And you really need to be thoughtful and tactical about each step in the buying cycle, because that's how leads are generated.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I'll say on that convert side. One other thing that I see when new clients come to me often is sometimes our website sites are really bad. Like you know, nowadays the standard's so high, like if you, occasionally I'll just run a search on, let's say, hvac San Jose, where I live, and I'll look at like the top 10 local ads and then search results and if it isn't like kick butt in terms of flow, look, feel aesthetic functionality. Man, you, you're working against yourself.
Speaker 1:Well, that's marketing, man. I mean, it's a feeling I think that's also commonly overlooked. Yeah, so, distracted by running the businesses and watching the health of the businesses that you know, we sometimes forget to actually like go through your own business process. Like, have you ever actually treated yourself as a customer, secret shopped or CSRs? Like went through the whole cycle? I mean, I spoke at an event in Chicago great awesome company, tr Miller, my good friends Brian, jim Sloan they asked me to come out and when they were giving everybody the tour, the guy says well, where do you guys want to start?
Speaker 1:I instantly jumped up and I said take me through the process as if I'm a customer. Like I want to go through the flow so I can imagine what it's like to be in their shoes. Like, if you did that for every single one of your employees and you did it like from the lens of your own ownership, you'd be amazed how many ideas flourish from that. Because if you thought about your business as an experience and less about a transaction, you're going to start to see things like way differently. You go talk to Andy Hobayko like he teaches sales and you'll hear him say the same thing, I think. What does he say? He usually says stop selling, start helping, like he's got like a tagline he always uses it a lot.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think that's it. Yeah, that guy's a character.
Speaker 1:But when you talk to him like, this is what he tells you.
Speaker 3:Like he's going to come in a future episode of On Profit and Grit, but they actually as like an added value. Their technicians will be walking around, let's say, a house, and they have something to do. And let's say I think the example he used is a glass door, is a sliding glass door. He's going through it sticks or something. They'll literally take the time to fix that glass. Now it it sticks or something They'll literally take the time to fix that cloud. Now it's obviously not going to be some dramatic thing, but it's a little simple fix. It maybe needs a spot of oil or they notice a bowl to site. That will actually fix it. Nothing to do with the job they're doing, just as part of an added value and kind of help the client to trust and feel like they're taking care of.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, they do a lot of things right over there, you know. Yeah, they're not a client of ours, but I still hired them to change out my heat pump. It was a year or two ago and what I love is they actually will come down with the videos and pictures. So the trust is never. You never have a problem with trust because he'll like sit next to you with the iPad and like show you and explain to you what is going on and how it works. You know, and it's it's just hard not to to move forward with somebody that is like you. Just trust them, man.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that trust, yeah, and honestly. Back to the website. That's what your first chance to be trusted is your website. And if it's, it sounds silly to be bringing it up. But if it's missing things or it looks funky or it's designed poorly, you know, I, a client of mine hired an agency some time ago and they suggested, they said no, you don't need to rebuild your site. It looked horrible, by the way, their current site and they said I don't need to rebuild it, we can. We can patch it and make it look better and honestly, it looked worse than the original version.
Speaker 1:I mean's another like easy, low-hanging fruit, because I'm all about practical things. Like, whenever I do these podcasts, I try to think about, like what's something that I can give, you know, because all that I want is for people to truly find value and feel like they're genuinely being helped, and then keep sharing that, like put the message out there and help somebody else, man, that's what fills, what fills my heart, you know, like this industry it gave me life after that shooting I want to get this, this industry life, you know, and I think that, like, what we have to do is and here's the actual practical thing yeah, what about the top five competitors? All of their websites?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And just click through each of them side by side and listen to your thoughts, like to your point, which one feels trustworthy, which one feels like I'm connecting with it. And if you could just reflect, it's going to be a lot easier for you to think about your plan, because the competition is all that matters. Reality is competition. Digital is a different type of competition. So just look at your top five competitors in the areas that you want to grow and pay attention to how their websites look, how the experience is, how easy is it to book? Do they have a scheduler when you call the phone number, like go through the whole buying cycle with that company and compare yourselves to them so that you can create an easier, more friendly and convenient experience, in addition to a more welcoming website, and watch the game change. And these are things like you. You don't have to hire an agency man Like you would have somebody inside the building, like take on this project and work with your developer, whoever made the site.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's good stuff, hey we're, we're coming up. I know we got about five more minutes. I want to be respectful of your time. So it's two things I want to finish. One is I'd love to say I'd love to just ask you if someone's going to work with a marketing agency for the first time, can you kind of give me a quick rundown of what they should be looking for, what they should be asking? I know that's way longer than a real simple answer, but just some top things that come to mind.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean the quickest things they'll tell you right is like understand what is committed. Look at the contractual obligations. The biggest issues you run into with agencies is they're juggling a lot of contractors. They mean well, but because you're juggling so many, sometimes they overlook things or they forget things or they're moving too fast and errors happen. So I think it's always good to look at your contracts and vet out like what's being promised.
Speaker 1:You know how many pages are you going to write for me a month? You know like are there any guarantees? Like, do I own my website? That's a big one Some people don't like when you know I break up with you and then all of a sudden the agency owns the website and like what the hell? That's my website. I mean, those are some of the quick things I would call out. Like you should own your assets. Make sure they're going to be yours in the beginning should something go wrong. Make sure that you have it in writing about what's being committed and make sure that you've got a report that you can understand, appreciate and feel comfortable using.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's good stuff. Many years ago I hired an agency not in the home services space, different space and I didn't realize I didn't carefully read the contract. They not only own the website, but I had no access as an admin. I couldn't even put a plug in without having to pay a toll because they said they wanted to test it. So it didn't damage the website and it was like a thousand I can't even remember it was like a thousand bucks to get the plug in, and so it is a good point you want to read, especially nowadays with chat GPT. Just drop it into chat GPT and say, hey, what am I? What should I look out for here? We have no excuse now, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, they're not ever planning to lose you, so they don't think like that. You have to think a step ahead.
Speaker 3:Right, yeah, good point. And then I'd love to wrap up with a marketing tip. Is there something that you could summarize for us? That's an actionable tip? That just comes to mind, and maybe something you've already mentioned. I'd love to wrap up that way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think a couple of things. I'll give you two quick ones. If you are posting content, meaning videos, don't sleep on YouTube shorts. The reach goes farther. Everybody thinks about TikTok, facebook, instagram reels, and you should do all those things because they have the market share. But if you post a Reel or a short or a video on social for free, youtube is getting a lot more views right now than any other platform. So if you're skipping out on YouTube, don't miss it.
Speaker 1:The digital game is about finding out what's hot at the right time so that it goes farther faster. The second thing I'll tell you is if you have not gone all in every single nook and cranny and fully mastered and gotten the value out of your Google business profile, that's a major miss. It's going to be a huge lead generator and it's only going to get bigger and better. And then the last thing I would give you is artificial intelligence is coming. Okay, chat GPT is taking market share and it's growing by the day. Watch Thumbtack. Thumbtack has a partnership with OpenAI and Chat GPT is working on some very powerful things that might make Thumbtack way more essential down the road for the home services industry. And I think if you started building your reputation by generating reviews on it today, so that you have that many in a year. You're going to have a leg up and be ahead of your competition and win the game and chat GPT suggestions.
Speaker 3:Good feedback. Lay that groundwork for potentially something in the future. That's a good one. Okay, great. If people wanted to reach out to you, is there anywhere in particular you'd like them to go?
Speaker 1:Everywhere, man. You just type Mike Venitas. I constantly put content all day, every day. I live my life on the record. I answer all my messages. I love what I do. Man, I just want to help. I've devoted my life to this industry, so just do a search for me. You can Google me, you can go to Facebook. I do a lot more of my active engagement on Facebook but, like my content and everything is going to be elsewhere. So you guys just like, look me up, follow me, add me, shoot me a message. Let's share my stuff. Like I just want to get farther out there and help as many people as I can with all the time I've got left.
Speaker 3:Dude, you're awesome. Thanks for sharing your story, being so open and just sharing that experience, thanks for sharing all the tips and, most importantly, thanks for being here.
Speaker 1:And thank you for giving me a platform to do it. My man, I appreciate your time, Tyler.
Speaker 3:Thanks, man, we'll talk soon. Take care, Cheers. Wow, mike is just a genuine guy. He's one of the most genuine and strategic minds I've talked to in the marketing space most genuine and strategic minds I've talked to in the marketing space. What stuck with me most wasn't just the tactical stuff, though that was great, like how to actually use your Google business profile, why you shouldn't throw money at paid ads too early. What really hit me was Mike's mindset. Getting shot, left for dead and still coming out on the other side with gratitude is your fuel. That's not just resilience, that's clarity and, honestly, it shows in the way he helps contractors grow without hype or gimmicks.
Speaker 3:If you're in that $1 to $10 million range and you're trying to figure out why are leads down, why jobs aren't closing or where your marketing budget is going, rewind this episode. There's gold in it. And if you want to talk about how to make better financial decisions while scaling your business, that's what I do. I help contractors turn their numbers into strategy. So you stop guessing and you start growing with intention. You can grab a time with me for a quick intro call at cfomadeeasycom. That's cfomadeeasycom. No pitch, just a conversation. And, most of all, thank you for listening to Profit and Grit. I'll see you next week.
