Beyond Remember The Titans: Cheerleaders, Culture, And Community At TC Williams feat Linda Lewis

Think you know Remember the Titans? Think again. In this episode, Sam and LT unpack the real TC Williams story, the cheer squad’s role, and the hero Hollywood sidelined. Hear the music, rivalry, and truth that was missed in the 2000 movie. Listen now and tell us: what shocked you most?

Special thanks to our guest, Ms. Linda Lewis-Pickett.

This episode was supported by the Virginia Humanities. 

https://virginiahumanities.org/

Learn more about the infamous 1971 state championship team here:

https://robertmluckett.com/

Go here for the Smart Girl experience:

https://www.smartgirlbook.com/

Transcript

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Welcome And Guest Introduction

Sam 0:03

Hi there. We're back today on the Smart Girl podcast, uh, where we talk about first gen college experience and culture. And today, this is so exciting.

LT 0:15

Oh my god.

Sam 0:16

It's I know, I can't even, uh, as the kids used to say at least. Uh, we're talking about the history of and connections to TC Williams, uh, a key school in Smart Girl, the memoir, uh, that kicked off this podcast, um, where LT was on the cheerleading squad, uh, and so much more. Uh, and it's the infamous subject of the 2000 um movie Remember the Titans.

LT 0:46

Indeed.

Sam 0:47

Uh, amazing. So we're so honored. Uh, I just again, I I am practically speechless to be joined by Linda Lewis Pickett, who was on the cheerleading squad during that key historical point. Go Titan! Go Titan. Yes, T. LT, can you tell us more about the phenomenal Miss Linda, including how you all connected over Smart Girls?

LT 1:20

Yes, we're just gonna keep hyping this up. I'm super excited. So, first I want to thank um another good friend of mine who was mentioned in the book, Megan Cosby, who actually came across a photo, a black and white photo of the cheerleading squad that was um part, like you said, of the historical period of the infamous uh state championship winning football team. And she put it in our group chat. This is yes, y'all. Kim, Megan, Dani, and I still have a group chat going. And we were, I was speechless and breathless because I saw in the photo that there were three black cheerleaders um in the squad, and immediately having not only been a cheerleader, but a scholar of cheerleader studies, I just wondered, wow, what what is their experience like? You know, the as you know, Sam, the movie focuses on the football team. So I want to know what the I really was curious about the experience of the cheerleader. So thanks to my mom, Gloria Rease, aka Peanuts. She's so great. I know, I know, so bully. She she did some digging and that brought us to today. So everyone, please welcome Linda Lewis

How Students Landed At TC Williams

LT 2:40

Pickett. Thank you so much for being here, Miss Linda.

Linda Lewis-Pickett 2:42

No, it's a pleasure. It's a pleasure.

LT 2:45

Well, we've got some questions for you, my friend.

Linda Lewis-Pickett 2:48

All right, bring 'em on.

LT 2:49

You hear that? Bring it on. Bring it on. Bring it on.

Sam 2:52

Another, another cheerleading thing. I love it. Um so, so phenomenal. And love thinking about all the generations that are helping to connect each other. And I've got I've got questions about the group chat. I love that there's there's cheerleader group chats uh from different generations. Like I just, yeah, it's amazing. So Miss Linda, thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you for being willing to talk about all of this with us. Um, and so my first question, our first question for you is if you could tell us uh a little bit more about how you wound up at TC Williams when this was a time when there were multiple high school closings, busings, etc. How did you wind up at TC Williams?

Linda Lewis-Pickett 3:43

Well, uh, for a lot of different reasons. There were three high schools at the time. Uh GW, which is where I went, George Washington High School. There was Hammond and there was TC Williams. Now, both TC and GW primarily integrated in the late 60s. Although the movie portrays integration as the biggest part of everything. Actually, the two schools had integrated way before then. Hammond was the school that had the least um integration going. They may have had one or two black students at the time. So the city wanted to try to, well, there were other things going on too. I think there were um age-related growth at the middle school level. So what happened? Um, what happened, they thought of they were, you know, just more people being born at that middle school level. So they were running out of spaces, if you could, if you will. Um, one of the things that really sold the merger of the schools was creating a phenomenal football team. If you can believe that, that is actually in the historical documents of what actually sold making TC Williams the single high school in Alexandria, Virginia. Wow. Yeah. Um, but what eventually happened, the schools did not close. Uh GW and Say it again, say it again.

LT 5:22

They did not close right away. Okay.

Linda Lewis-Pickett 5:25

They did not close. No, not at that time. Right. They became middle schools for uh ninth and tenth graders. And folks like myself, who was in the last year, the senior year of high school, uh, the folks from GW and Hammond, we were forced to go to TC Williams. And that meant not walking to school anymore. It meant catching the bus to get to school. Uh, there it was a huge class, uh, a senior class. We had over 950 students in our graduating class. Wow. So it was a traumatic time in a lot of respects. Uh,

Rivalries And Community Energy

Linda Lewis-Pickett 6:10

we didn't like it, of course. TC and GW were huge rivalries um over the years, and that was fun. It was fun to have that rivalry, and uh that was gone. And I think what happened over the years that just interest in high school sports waned a little bit because of that. So I don't know if that answers all your questions. Oh no, 100%.

LT 6:35

Oh, I just have a quick question for you though, from your perspective. I remember reading, no, no, it's it said in the movie actually, I know we're gonna get into the movie, Sam, but just real quick. In the movie, it said football was king in Alexandria. I don't recall it that way, but what was your your perspective on that idea of how dominant football was in the in in the in the city?

Linda Lewis-Pickett 7:01

Well, both football and basketball, and what created that was the rivalry. Thank you. That's what we have TC primarily against GW. So Alexandria, the community, the African American community, we all hung out together, we knew each other primarily, so there's trash talking, um, there were you know just just um hype for whatever school you came from. So there was a lot of energy, yeah. I remember the football and basketball games, the the um bleachers were full, the community people, I mean older folks, you know, 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s came to those games. So that's true. Back in the day, that was true.

Sam 7:51

Um, and then I know that um that LT told me in talking to you that even within your household, people were going to different schools.

Linda Lewis-Pickett 8:01

Now that did not happen in our household. Actually, I'm the last born, so right.

Sam 8:07

Um did you have a sister?

LT 8:09

So your but your sister went to GW.

Linda Lewis-Pickett 8:12

Yes. My brother --

LT 8:12

Okay.

Sam 8:13

And you did up until senior year. Oh--

Linda Lewis-Pickett 8:16

That's correct.

LT 8:16

Okay, gotcha.

Sam 8:17

Got it, got it. Um, so thank you for telling us how you got there, uh and and what was sort of lost, right? In in going there. Um, can you tell us a little bit, describe a little bit your time at um TC Williams, uh, and especially your time on the cheerleading squad?

Linda Lewis-Pickett 8:42

Um looking back on it, um it was a very interesting time. It was a mixing bowl, if you will. Um, you got an opportunity to meet some new people, definitely a new school, um, new challenges as

Life On Campus And Cheer Culture

Linda Lewis-Pickett 9:00

far as uh getting there. But for many of us at that time, if you were senior, a senior there, you worked. I only had two classes my senior year at TC. And I knew the people from GW, I knew folks from TC that were from the community, um, people from Hammond I did not know at all. So if you were not part of those two classes, I didn't get to meet you. It's really odd to even think that I only knew probably a little more than I know it was less than a half of the football team. Never got to meet them. I met um oh oh god, his name just went out of my head. Um Sunshine. Help me. Oh, it'll come to him in a minute. But the the main football player, I mean, was just honored at TC Williams this this weekend. I'd never met him, I'd never shaken his hand. He was from California. Why can't I remember his name? Well, they called him Sunshine in the movie, that's who he was, but um, it was a freeing time. TC was an open campus, so we kind of felt like we were in college. You could go off campus to eat um as long as you were back for whatever classes you had. Um, as far as supervision, it was extremely loose, and that was good and that was bad in some respects. They had a smoking hall, if you could believe that. Um, the cafeteria, when it was not lunch, I remember ping pong tables. It was kind of like a rec center and uh tons of music playing. And one thing with the movie, we'll get into that later. I don't know where that person got the movie, the music for the movie, because a lot of that to me came from the late 60s.

LT 11:05

That's what we said!

Linda Lewis-Pickett 11:06

Okay, did you say that too?

LT 11:08

Okay, well, we're gonna we we're building up to it.

Sam 11:10

We how did it miss music from all kinds of things about making a movie about the 70s and forcing it to be about integration and then wanting that soundtrack of the 60s, right?

Linda Lewis-Pickett 11:22

That like I don't understand it, yeah. Yeah, it's but as far as you know, getting along, um, it was fine. It it was fine. The one thing about the bringing together the three schools, we will forever be three schools. Whenever we have a reunion, it's not it's not like hi, how are you? It's what school did you go to? Fascinating. So for us, yeah, the three schools will forever be.

Sam 11:51

Yeah, that's that is that is fascinating. So you wound up on the cheerleading squad. Did you when you were at GW? Um, did you cheerlead as well?

Linda Lewis-Pickett 12:02

Yes, I cheered uh three years at GW, two, I guess freshmen and two as a sophomore. Um, and of course, it was in my blood to to try out when I got to TC Williams. Um, it was funny, one of the uh cheerleaders on the on the squad who made the squad, and she was afraid to ask me. She says, "Well, Linda, if uh GW was integrated, why were there only three black cheerleaders there and the rest were white?" I mean, I just never thought of it that way. I never thought of race. Um, you know, not that many blacks went out. I mean, and who wanted to go out went out. Some of us made it. A lot of the white girls, some made it, some didn't. So I never looked at it as a race thing. I never did, and we all got along just fine. Um, now I've lost your question.

LT 12:57

But then that was and that was at GW, right? What was it like trying to?

Linda Lewis-Pickett 13:03

Yeah. I think what they did, um, and for whatever the reason, a lot of the uh girls from GW did not try out. A lot did not, and for a lot of reasons, some graduated earlier, some um, like I said, many of us were working

Three Schools, Three Cheer Styles

Linda Lewis-Pickett 13:20

at just different things going on in our lives. But I think what happened, they ended up choosing four from each of the schools. Interesting, and that's yeah, that's how it was done. Now, there were different styles of cheering.

LT 13:35

Tell us, tell us, tell us.

Linda Lewis-Pickett 13:38

Well, TC was more of a pop cheer, okay, kind of a rock, if you will. Hammond had a very military stick style of cheering. And GW, we are we really were R&B. We rocked --

LT 13:53

We danced. Hey!

Sam 13:55

I love it.

Linda Lewis-Pickett 13:56

So it was it was quite interesting. I was very interested to learn some of their uh styles of cheering, to be honest. And they were open to learning ours, so it it was a learning curve all the way around for everybody. There was a little bit you knew, but a lot to learn. So, and and that just went over very well.

Sam 14:17

It was amazing to think about it. It was an integration of cheer styles, yes, yes. The new part wasn't the racial integration, it was cheer style integration, like our new tagline. This is amazing.

LT 14:32

You know, you know, I'm crying right now, Sam?

Linda Lewis-Pickett 14:34

 Why?

LT 14:34

You know that this is because this is beautiful, and this is what people don't talk about because they want to tell an easier story. Yeah, this is far more nuanced, I would say.

Sam 14:49

Um, and for you to talk about what's lost, I just want to say in the rivalry and how the community bonding, not just getting behind one team, right? But the trash talk, right? Is the community bonding is is really um amazing. Um so we've already dabbled in this. How could we not? And I looked up at Sunshine's name again, it's Ronnie Bass or Bass.

Linda Lewis-Pickett 15:16

Yeah, how could I forget? I'm so sorry, Ronnie.

Sam 15:20

Maybe um, I I can't remember like what I ate for breakfast.

Linda Lewis-Pickett 15:29

Right, I understand. I just and I just looked at his name and couldn't recall it. I'm sorry.

Sam 15:34

Oh no.

LT 15:36

Be happy we're talking about you, Ronnie.

Sam 15:37

That's right, that's right. Um but anyway, we um we've already touched on this, but of course, you know what what were and what are your feelings about the film about Remember the Titans? And did you talk about it with your fellow TCers when it was released?

Linda Lewis-Pickett 15:58

I guess we did. Um, you know, it was exciting to have a movie made that that I think it wasn't a first, but it was exciting for our school to be portrayed uh on the big screen. So we were quite excited about that. Um looking at the movie itself, I'm left with the question who wrote this? That that and we'll never really know. There are assumptions about who wrote it. Um there are varying stories about how this all got done. And my reason for asking that is the movie has a very heavy Hammond spend on it. Fascinating. Say more. Yeah, because well, if you think about uh Gerry, uh Gerry Bertier and the the I guess the difficulty and the race relations, all of that is primarily Hammond-driven. The school that was least integrated. Now, there could have been uh a lot more tension on the team than the cheerleaders experienced because you had three schools. I think it was probably the biggest squad ever in the history of high school, and they probably were trying to do a similar um approach as they did with the cheerleaders, doing I don't know what the number was. Was it 15 from each school? I don't know what the number was, but I understand it was one

The Movie’s Myths And Omissions

Linda Lewis-Pickett 17:30

of the largest football teams for high school ever.

LT 17:33

I can imagine.

Linda Lewis-Pickett 17:34

And uh trying to--

LT 17:35

A super team, super team.

Linda Lewis-Pickett 17:36

Yeah. And that's where if you go back to -- La'Tonya, when you do your in-depth research--

LT 17:43

Yes, ma'am.

Linda Lewis-Pickett 17:44

If you go back to those records, that's exactly what they declared they would create. this super--

Sam 17:50

Which is wild. They make it seem like it's incidental, right? Like it's something that happens, right? That everyone has to reckon with. Not that, like literally it was sold as such.

Linda Lewis-Pickett 18:04

It was sold as such.

Sam 18:06

Wow.

Linda Lewis-Pickett 18:06

And you know, and I guess, you know, when it comes to the coaches, there could have been more uh racial tensions there. Um, they were more adults than we were, you know what I mean?

LT 18:18

Yeah.

Linda Lewis-Pickett 18:18

Um, so and I I wasn't we none of us, um we the cheerleaders were not privy to that. Um, but I'm not surprised that there were probably more racial issues at the coaching level, you know, who's gonna lead the squad.

LT 18:34

That makes sense.

Sam 18:35

Interesting, yeah. But but but to know that you know the racial integration wasn't actually a surprise or new to most people.

Linda Lewis-Pickett 18:44

No, and it's disappointing that the movie focuses on that so much because we got along as-- At T C Williams, we got along. There wasn't the the this discourse that they talk about in the movie happened like '66,' 67 at GW.

LT 19:05

Right.

Linda Lewis-Pickett 19:05

So I really question who wrote the script. I I I don't know. Right. Um there are a lot of um what do what do the movies call it? Um when you just--

Sam 19:20

Artistic license?

Linda Lewis-Pickett 19:22

Yes, that's exactly what I mean.

Sam 19:24

Liberty is taken with the--

Linda Lewis-Pickett 19:25

Liberties, yeah. There are a lot, there are a lot of libertes, you know. There there are, and I had to ask some of the football players myself, did this really happen? But they're a lot of it in the movie did not. It did not, and it's so sad that a a story of such magnitude was a beautiful story to tell on its own. Yeah, agreed. So, why did they have to skew it this way? I will never know. Now, I'll tell you what in the African American community is being talked about. Tell us. Tell us. The one person that was not in the movie, um, I think his name was mentioned toward the end was Frankie Glasgow. Frankie Glasgow, and I'm not a football person, I think he was running back. I think that was his um position on the team. And if it had not been for Frankie running in a touchdown, this movie would have probably never been made. So, how can you leave out someone who was so important to making this happen? I I don't know how you do that. Wow, and it kind of built up Gerry Bertier and his buddies. Now, what I'm told is that Bertier um was upset that Frankie Glasgow won the most valuable player at the end of the uh season. And I understand that he left the dinner where the awards were given, um, started drinking, and crashed his car. So, how do you twist this all around? I don't know. So, you know, a lot of people made money on this. I won't say a lot, some made money on this film, and the rest of us are like, you know, how in the heck did they ever get to this? I don't know. But he's one person that, and I'm sure he's hurt by this, yeah. Because if it had not been for him, we wouldn't even be talking about this, right?

Sam 21:41

Because they needed to win, right? In order for us to be the story.

LT 21:45

Yeah, well, Frankie apparently was the captain of the team, it looks like. I was doing some research. . . .

Linda Lewis-Pickett 21:51

Um, you know, I don't know. I think Bertier was a captain, and um--

LT 21:56

I'm . . . I'm looking at an Alexandria site now and it says--.

Linda Lewis-Pickett 21:58

Oh, does it say that?

LT 22:00

Yeah, that Frankie was the captain, but I but you're right that he his um. The full credit really isn't given to him in the film. None.

Linda Lewis-Pickett 22:09

No, yeah, none, absolutely, and and from what I understand, there was kind of a beef between him and Berteir. And I was told it was a friend of Bertier's who wrote the script.

Sam 22:21

Interesting.

LT 22:22

Oh, the tea!

Linda Lewis-Pickett 22:24

Um, they tell me that the script was written by a guy, African-American guy who was visiting uh the All-American barbershop in Alexandria. But I don't see how in the world this story, excuse me, this story comes out of that barber shop, which is an African American that has been for years. Yeah, it just doesn't make sense.

Sam 22:48

That is fascinating as like the lore that they need, too , to sort of be like, "Hh, this was this was a black authored movie." This is that, but

Linda Lewis-Pickett 22:58

There's no way .

Sam 22:58

But you're saying it's so

Frankie Glasgow And Credit Due

Sam 23:00

Hammond, right?

Linda Lewis-Pickett 23:01

Yeah, so yeah, and to not mention Frankie Glasgow, no way. You you cannot tell me that in a million years, right?

Sam 23:08

Because you you even saw and are telling us, right, that the community's reaction was to immediately be like, Where's Frankie?

Linda Lewis-Pickett 23:16

Yes, yeah, yes.

Sam 23:18

Yeah, that's wild. Yeah, well,

Linda Lewis-Pickett 23:21

I -- all of us felt, you know, I hate to say it, and you can cut it out if you need to, but at our reunion, um, after the movie had come out, uh, it wasn't long ago that we had a reunion, and everybody's like, okay, b.s.

Sam 23:37

Interesting.

LT 23:39

I would love to go back to your comment about the music.

Linda Lewis-Pickett 23:43

Yes.

LT 23:44

Because that's something I could I quickly noticed too about the about the music.

Linda Lewis-Pickett 23:50

It didn't match.

LT 23:51

Okay, tell us why you say it didn't match, and what do you think would have what would have been your soundtrack during that time? What would you have been listening to?

Linda Lewis-Pickett 24:00

Um, I mean, the Supremes and I can't even think of -- Some of The Temptations. It was like late 60s movie. It was Motown, right? So somebody misunderstood the time frame for Motown to me. So it makes you wonder who is behind all of this because a lot of it just doesn't match. Um, there were some songs. Um, I mean, Roberta Flack was huge at the time, and you know what was so good about that year? Um, no matter there was mixed music, beautiful music from white artists and black artists, and just we listened to all of it. Carly Simon. I mean, "These are the good old days." I mean, there's there was The Temptations, Bill Withers was out, you know, a little bit of James Brown. He was kind of going downhill after that, though. The Main Ingredients, Chicago, Carol King. I mean, there was John Denver.

LT 25:04

This is beautiful.

Linda Lewis-Pickett 25:04

Did you hear any of that stuff?

LT 25:07

No, that doesn't fit the narrative.

Linda Lewis-Pickett 25:09

That doesn't fit the narrative. No, I mean, it was just beautiful, beautiful music. James Taylor, you know, The Undisputed Truth, Stevie Wonder, Aretha Franklin, for goodness sake. Right, yeah. So, you know, but Carly Simon sticks out in my mind. I I still hear her in that cafeteria, that booming voice she had. You know, "These are the good old days." I mean, I remember that one. America, "[A] Horse With No Name." "I've been to the desert." It was some beautiful music, yeah. And we don't kind of we don't have that today. Either you're into rap or you're into rock. During that time, music was universal.

LT 26:01

Yeah, thank you.

Linda Lewis-Pickett 26:03

And I don't know how they missed that in in the movie. Yeah, I don't know.

Sam 26:07

Well, as LT talks about with with uh her book, one of the things that happens with the narratives, right, is people, you know, just put them into boxes. And so uh what's what's

The Soundtrack That Didn’t Fit

Sam 26:20

your tagline on that? It's not starving to Stanford or as the only story you can tell about being the first generation to get to college, right?

Linda Lewis-Pickett 26:31

Right, right.

Sam 26:33

So, like it feels like the music is really um part and parcel of this story that they wanted to shoeard it into the 60s model of what they do instead of thinking, well, what happened kind of after?

Linda Lewis-Pickett 26:48

After, yeah. What actually happened here? What actually happened here?

Sam 26:52

Yeah, so thank you for sharing all of that. And you you you uh our last question is usually about music, but I'm you already answered that in a bonus way. Um, and I can't wait to have Carly Simon as the Instagram feed for this, right? But so then I have another question. Sure to hear that there's a rumor, there's still a TC cheerleader group chat.

Linda Lewis-Pickett 27:16

Um, actually, um it's not so much we have a chat, yes, but we get together.

LT 27:23

Oh, it's more than a chat, Sam. It is more than a chat.

Linda Lewis-Pickett 27:27

Only this, what goes on with the gatherings? We need to know we get together and we don't miss a beat. It's like we um have seen each other just yesterday. We pick up conversations about family, we talk about the times, you know, cheering and uh things that may have happened in our lives, trying to get to TC and during that time. Um we're friends. It's a bond that has been built probably because of the historical year the team had, and there were so many opportunities to keep getting together. And we have just continued. Um, they're about out of the, I think there were maybe 12 of us, uh about eight of us have stayed in touch uh over 50 some years. And it's just it's just a beautiful thing. It really is. We were during this weekend, I guess is when all of this um T C Williams talk happened again. It was the 25th anniversary of the movie, right? Uh the weekend of the 19th and 20th of September. And we were at the the squad as a whole, we were actually inducted into the the which is now the Alexandria City Public Schools, Athletic Hall of Fame. Yes, and we are the first squad to ever be inducted um in this manner. So we are thrilled. Um, we're so happy, we were honored. We we couldn't believe it. It's like, oh my gosh, they remembered us. But it was a fabulous time, it was, but you know, doing going back to the chip, we never really, it was like two different, we never really got in were around the team, you know. We traveled to the game on our own, they did whatever they did on the bus or flew or whatever, so we did not have that interaction, even at game time. I mean, we were cheerleaders and you know, trying to cheer them on and things like that, but there was not this common um collaboration during the year, yeah, which is why I did not know a lot of the football team, right? Right, and it made me feel good. I uh this one gentleman I was talking to, he says, but we knew who you all were, and that's a good feeling. Yeah, I mean, but it it wasn't it was it was different, it was different, it was different. And do I have I still have allegiance to GW that's where I spent my time, that's where I spent my time, and I'm sure that the other schools feel the same way for just that year.

LT 30:24

So this is so beautiful. I'm so glad that you all are honored properly, or at least beginning to. This is just the beginning. The beginning.

Sam 30:34

Waiting for your movie, yeah.

LT 30:38

I would love to come to one of these gatherings and do some filming. We'll absolutely we're we're gonna manifest this right now and make it happen. Um, yeah, it can't not be told, right?

Linda Lewis-Pickett 30:52

So so appreciative, yes. Um and we've lost two of our cheerleaders, um Ethel

Lasting Bonds And Hall Of Fame Honor

Linda Lewis-Pickett 31:00

Cook, who actually was dating Frankie Glasgow at the time, and they married after high school, and Adrienne uh Bib, we've lost her as well, and we've gone to their services and we've spoken as a squad. It's it it is really out of my four years of cheering. This is the first group that we have really just stayed in touch. It's a camaraderie, yeah. It really is, it's a wonderful thing. I love it, and we're older and we look at each other, and it's like I see the younger person, you know what I mean? And we try to do some of the cheers and the legs are aching it. It's like I can't, my back hurts. But it's a fun thing. We break bread, yeah. It's I love this.

Sam 31:53

We need to do a documentary, yes. That's no questions. We will, and I'm I'm so happy that you all were honored as a squad. Yes, um, thank you so much for talking to us for uh being willing to make this connection. I know you had already spoken to LT and for being willing to to you know talk about the movie as well, um and and tell us the the real story.

Linda Lewis-Pickett 32:23

Uh at least just one other thing. I remember the twang from the movie. We do not talk like that.

LT 32:30

Oh, I know, I hate that.

Linda Lewis-Pickett 32:32

I know. No. Why???

LT 32:35

Why?

Sam 32:36

It's it's like they've never been to Northern Virginia.

Linda Lewis-Pickett 32:40

Thank you. Again, it was a great teller story, yeah. And you know what? If I can say one other thing, it will be very hard um to counter that movie. You know what I mean? It's gotten so much uh air time, people love it, and you just have to accept it as just you know, TV, historical fiction, historical fiction, and um Bob Luckeyt, he was one of the uh um players, and he's come up with a book trying to correct some of the you know things that are wrong in the movie, but it's I don't think we'll ever change it, right? I mean, I don't I don't I don't know. I don't know.

Sam 33:27

We can get other stories out there though. That would be good to counter that, yes, because it's not been told, and even just you getting together with your with your squad, right? And and keeping alive the other stories and being like, we know we know this one.

Linda Lewis-Pickett 33:46

I actually um Petey was my boyfriend, Petey Green, yes, and he was a ladies' man, they got that right in the right.

Sam 34:00

Someone who knew him, yeah.

Linda Lewis-Pickett 34:05

All right, now I stopped you from signing off. You go ahead.

Sam 34:09

Oh, no worries, this has just been amazing. Thank you, Linda Lewis Pickett, for visiting with us, Miss Linda. This was phenomenal um and revelatory and gossipy in the best historical way. Absolutely. We love all of it, we love you, and we thank you for coming on.

Linda Lewis-Pickett 34:33

Thank you for having me. Yeah, I appreciate it.