Overcoming Imposter Syndrome - EMBRACE Your Authentic Self | Therapists Unhinged Ep. 4

In this episode of Therapists Unhinged, we dive deep into the topic of imposter syndrome, exploring its prevalence across various professions, particularly in the field of therapy. We discuss how many of us, including therapists, often feel like we are "faking it" and question our abilities and successes.

We emphasize the importance of self-acceptance and the need to celebrate both our strengths and weaknesses. Our conversation highlights that questioning ourselves can be a sign of growth, as it encourages us to reflect on our actions and motivations. We share personal anecdotes about our experiences with imposter syndrome, including moments of doubt when working with clients facing significant challenges, such as grief or relationship issues.

Throughout the episode, we stress the value of self-awareness and the necessity of being open to change, both in ourselves and in our relationships with others, especially as parents. We discuss how parenting styles must adapt as children grow, and how power and control do not equate to love.

We also touch on the impact of societal expectations and comparisons, particularly in the age of social media, and how these can exacerbate feelings of inadequacy. Ultimately, we encourage listeners to embrace their unique journeys, recognize their worth, and understand that it's okay to seek help and support along the way.

Join us as we normalize these feelings and provide insights on overcoming imposter syndrome, fostering self-acceptance, and building authentic connections with ourselves and others.

Transcript

0:00

You know, we talk about imposter syndrome by clients all the time, and I'm like, be who you are. Everybody else is taken. Celebrate your successes and celebrate your weaknesses. If you're aware of those weaknesses and A lot of times where the imposter syndrome comes into, it's because as we're growing and as we're learning more about ourselves and other people, we start to question our actions. Questioning yourself is a good thing. You know, it's okay to ask Welcome to episode four of Therapist Unhinged. We are talking about imposter syndrome today. How to deal with it, how to overcome it, what it feels like, normalize it a little bit, right? And so we Robin's not in the house. I don't know who She's always like this. So, if you haven't noticed already, this is episode 4. So, basically, what we're going to be talking about is how relatable it is across different professions too. And how to overcome it. and yeah, what it feels like. So, not what's your dictionary, but imposter syndrome basically is when you feel that you are kind of like faking it out there. You're not really who you say you're gonna be and you're not doing things like, so let's say as a therapist, I feel like, why would anybody wanna come to me? Like kind of almost devaluing what Like question your own success. Correct. You know, like you are successful, You know, it's like you don't give yourself enough credit in that department. Definitely. So we're going to overcome it by, I'm coming out, I want the world to know. Plus it's hot, so take this um so yes that is yeah so that's the thing i mean as therapists we know we've all been there and it is just a part of the journey is to feel that why would anyone want to come to me why is nobody coming to me for advice like who am i and although we've gone we've talked about this before although we've gone through school gone through training we've done different things still a lot of times it uh we question what we do especially when Let's say we have a client that we're not working well with or they feel like they're not really getting anywhere with you. Then it starts to be like, oh, is that me? Is it something that I did? But in reality, that actually makes you good at what you do because you are trying to grow and make sure you're holding yourself accountable, checking in on yourself, making sure you're researching if you don't know what you're doing or what you're dealing with. That's kind of how And I talk a lot about self-acceptance. And even with that, it's not even knowing who you are, or being told that you're, you know, something else, or even when you've tried to be yourself, trying to kind of either show up for it. So, you know, we celebrate it now. Because that's the uniqueness of each individual person. You know, like I know like years ago there was a time where it was like well it wasn't like common to be yourself because maybe you were too loud or maybe you were this or that or maybe you weren't good enough for the people that you were around. And so you took on this other personality or this other person and that's who you developed into. you know but you know we talk about imposter syndrome you know my clients all the time and i'm like be who you are everybody else is taking that car you are celebrate your successes and celebrate your weaknesses because if you're if you're aware of those weaknesses and you're willing to learn from those weaknesses then you're wrong well and pretty clear i don't think a lot of people even want to be me so i mean i didn't know how to be anybody else but but it's still i mean when you say imposter syndrome i think it's still sometimes it's maybe not enough syndrome, you know, or I don't know, or what if I am, or, you know, like what you said, it's, you get called too much or you're different or, and I'm like, that's the beauty of it. That is the beauty of it. And, you know, TJ and I today had the pleasure, you know, we're meeting some young clinicians and We love their diversity. We love finding out, okay, who are you? What do you do? What do you like? We've got this and this and this. We've got all this wealth of knowledge. And to me, that is like, you have to have that. You Right. And then stepping back and think like, okay, you don't just have to have necessarily like the knowledge as far as like textbook wise in that area in order to be good at what you do and to help someone. So for instance, like, I know when I first started, I never wanted to touch marriage counseling. I never wanted to touch couples. I was like, there's no way no one's going to come to me. First of all, I was younger, you know, and how am I going to, you know, talk to people who are you know in their 50s and 60s asking me for a mirror device and I was like I was going third force I'm like there's no way I'll never touch it and I had one of my um one of my site supervisors push me to try and do it and I was like it was very uncomfortable and I felt like an imposter because I'm like But what's ironic is that I ended up loving it over time. I ended up loving it and it was because I wasn't taking my own experience and putting it in to their experiences. I was able to kind of step back and compartmentalize and make sure that I'm listening to their story and what they're going through So can I piggyback on that because girl, I got a whole funny. So same thing because as you all know, I mean, education. And so I'd gotten, you know, this degree way back after going through a divorce. And I said, okay, I want to figure that out. And so I was in the field for a little bit, but then with a lot of family stuff, and you know, I left to over 10 years, you know, so a lot of growth, a lot of growth, a lot of growth and education. But I remember And I was with other supervisor and she's practicing to send me and there we get the same thing. And now granted, I'm a teacher. I taught sex education, but I was teaching like what not to do with just education. So what's happening as I'm sitting there, I don't feel like, I mean, I'll be four years old. I saw 12. And so even 10 years ago when people were telling me this stuff, I'm going, I'm like, oh my gosh, people are talking about their sex life and I'm like, I don't even know what that like, what is that? I'll never forget. I swear to goodness. I had, um, I had like a 10 minute break or something. I ended up calling my best girlfriend. I'm like, yo, hey, listen, you're going to have to look single for me. I don't even know what this is. She goes, what? I go, I don't know. It's spelled this way. And I had to like have her look like, oh, so green. yeah i didn't know what it was like i don't know how to work with this well at least you didn't pretend there was no pretending because i was like i'm right you know but i'm sitting there going these people are not getting the money's worth because i do not know what i'm doing and that's what i felt And I had that same experience actually when one of them pushed me towards grief as well. Working with a family, I'll never forget, it was the first time I ever dealt with a family that was grieving the loss of a child. And it was hard for me to hold back my own tears in each session. And I felt and again, I didn't feel comfortable because I felt like an imposter. Like, why are they? I've never experienced a grief like they have. So I couldn't even, I couldn't imagine losing a child. And here they are going through it. And I'm like, how can I help them? So these are things that I know I've gone through and you know the ironic thing again by the end of they had like it was EAP session so they only had six sessions and by the end of it they had already gone through like a milestone of like the acceptance part of it and they like you know said it was you know I helped them and I'm just thinking sometimes you know people there are some people of course we know some of our more extensive therapy. But sometimes, you know, just someone to listen and not, you know, judge, You know what I mean? And still to this day, I'm like, I can't imagine how I helped this family. And I felt terrible, but they, you know, I was cool with them. And I'm glad I, they said I helped them in at least some way. And, but these are the moments that I'm like, Am I doing the right thing? Do I need to pass them on or do I need to just like put my head in the book I'm gonna go with D all the above and I think a lot of it too is just again we're not afraid to say listen I don't know, apologize, because I don't feel some type of way, you know what I mean? Because I don't believe, you know, whatever. I've done that now, but I think I'm so much more confident now in who I am, you know what I mean? And the journeys and everything else that I'm just like, I mean it took me a long time getting here and so I am so comfortable like I think in anything now but I think it's also the fact that I really honed how to and what to and you know doing the teaching and a lot of research plus being here you know plus just the clientele you know that we kind of geared towards us now and um going through it with them, you know, sometimes that's a good point, going through it with them and just really listening to their experience Yeah, because and sometimes even I look at them I go, listen, I'm just like vlogging right now. So it's all good. Like we're all good. We're all in this together. And, you know, and I think sometimes like what you said, sometimes it's just a I'm burdening it and just not be a one of my clients. She goes, I love when you're self-imposed because again, sometimes I feel like, am I just, am I the only one? Am I the only one? And I'm like, y'all need And I think that's too, like the older we get and the more we're in our field and the more people we get to, you know, be in contact with, you know, stepping back and like realizing we can learn something from them as well. And I think that like humbled us too. And, you know, I hope that other clinicians do that as well on the field because, you know, They're going to experience something that we haven't. I actually had an evaluation that I was doing, like a full mental health, you know, possible personality disorder and stuff. And this young man had been through it. He had done all the work. He had done, I mean, residential intensive outpatient, went away to a retreat. I mean, for the last 10 to 15 years, he's been through it and therapist after therapist. And I'm listening to him and I'm hearing him cry for help in a way that he's like, I'm done, tears coming down his face. Like I didn't want a good relationship and I can't have one. Like all these things that he's explaining to me and I'm just listening and I'm like, I'm in it and I've never experienced what he's experienced. However, I can, I can say like, okay, now I got to put, put my hat on. Like, what can I do to finally get him some relief? And we have a plan in place and putting him, connecting him with the right people. And I told him before he left, cause he was like, I just feel like I've been in and out of these rooms so much. Like, how am I ever going to be okay? And I'm like, I promise you, if I can't help you, I'm going to get you somebody that can. Because I am not going to just send you out here. Like, we are making a plan. And he appreciated just me saying that, because I felt him. And these are those moments that were like, if I can't help you and we can't work through this, like, there's something out there. Don't Don't give up. Right. And I think that, you know, that's very good. we're not afraid to ask the question, how can I help you? Because I've heard like, you know, in my sessions, people come and they spill their hearts and it's like, okay, where do we go from here? What would you like for me? What can I do for you? What would you like for me to do? And I think that that's big, because sometimes, you know, people don't know what to do, you know? And then moving now, they've seen other therapists, we don't know, you know, I'm not saying anything about other therapists, but they've been through it. Like you said, they've been through so much. And then, you know, they finally get to the point where it's like, this is my breaking point. Like this, this session is the difference between me getting what I need or me getting to my breaking point. And just to say, what can I do to help you is big. Because now they know that someone's listening, someone cares. And if we care, we're not afraid to get them or get the resources that they need in order to get to where they need to be. And again, although we're smiling for this one, because you said breaking point twice, one of my favorite things is victory, because when we're breaking point, we become those breaking points. And so I, cause y'all know I'm big language, language, language. And so just hearing that, and that's what I look right there at my phone. And I said, here you are. And a lot that I've noticed I've been doing, even in my classes is, you know, cause they really are getting there. Cause you don't get to the end of the semester and it's like, that's when they're, I got up, you know, and they keep asking. And then they're like, know whatever but um they're like okay but if this and that and everything else and i was like i just and i go i don't know what do you think because here's my thing who told you it was wrong who told you we're different who told you why do you feel that you're the problem who who who's this what's they what society what culture who told you why do you think that you're so broken you know and i think so many times people because again when you're in it and you're looking this way and whatever and of course we go to that you know emotional limbic brain, they're so conditioned to being told they're something. They never even, they never even knew that I, what? I'm like okay well I don't have a dog in this race, I'm just saying I see you like this and that's what I see, am I it's not yeah no that's a that's a great point and yeah you know These young kids, young adults too, figuring out who they are and knowing that whoever they're going to be and whoever they want to be, it's okay to question yourself. It's okay to ask if this is the right thing for you. It's okay if you go into a field and you're like, is this really? It doesn't mean that it's not for you. It just means that maybe you're just starting to figure it out and figure out who you are. And like I said earlier, I never imagined I'd even be where I am today. I never imagined me owning a business and all this. It wasn't what I thought was for me. As you start to grow and you start to experience things, your ideas may shift, even about yourself. I think that's a lot of times where the imposter syndrome comes into, it's because as we're growing and as we're learning more about ourselves and other people, we start to question about our actions. I mean, even if you take an example of a parent, you know, parenting, you know, we question sometimes if we're, if we're really a good parent, are we being a good mom? Are we being a good dad? Are we even, are we doing the right things? And I think questioning yourself is a good thing. And it's a good thing to do because as long as you can step back and think like, okay, how is this affecting everybody involved? Is this, am I being productive in what I'm trying to accomplish with this scenario or behavior? So I think that even in And I think, you know, cause you opened up and said, how do you overcome it? One of the ways you overcome it is first you have to be aware. So self-awareness is, first and and that's what I heard you say when you're talking about like a parent you're questioning yourself am I doing it right or am I doing it this way you're aware your awareness is being sharpened you know so that that's a good point yeah and again because you know I love you know a little whiteboard I've always got my sayings and I think I said this morning the other ones I said you know change can only happen when you believe the truth more than you believe the facts. And like I did have a parent and you know this client I mean it was just so struggling and operating from fear and this and I'm just looking at this you know kind of like are you a good parent? Are you a good parent? I literally are you a good parent? Are you a good parent? Are you a good parent? Couldn't even get there. Are you a good parent? Well then are you a good parent? And I just stayed right there. And finally this guy looks at me and goes, yeah. I said, then own it. Then own it. I said, the facts are, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But the truth is you're doing what you know how to do, what you have right now. And that's all you can do. That's all you can do. But you have to believe, I am a good parent and I'm doing everything that I can. We all have to do that, you know? But I think part of imposter syndrome too is playing the comparison role. Like we compare. And I'm pretty sure we've all done it at one point in our lives, but comparing your parenting to someone else's parenting. or comparing your level of success to somebody else's or the way you your profession to someone else's just because they're chapter 10 doesn't mean you're chapter 3 that you're almost not success. So that's a lot of the you know imposter syndrome as well is Oh yeah we definitely compare a lot and I mean and especially in you know, any kind of field where, you know, you need to, you're trying to grow what you're, you're building, whether you're a business owner, whether you're a doctor, and there's people that are out there doing amazing things, and you compare yourself to everybody else. So and then parenting, oh my gosh, how many times have we done that? I mean, I think we've all been there, like, oh, they must be a great parent, or what are they doing that I'm not because I'm not getting the same. I'm not getting the same result that that parent went to and stuff. And you Yes, they may parent differently and they may have their children are going to be different too. I was just thinking it. Yes, so there may be just an intelligent and maybe this person, this mom or dad who had three kids and all of them are in these Ivy League schools and you're like, dang, my kid is barely going to the community college. How did that happen? It's like, you know, just sit back, let them have their successful children, be happy for them. you know, be their cheerleader, but then still embrace what you have and what you've tried to instill Absolutely, I agree with that because it's so easy. You know, I used to say, and this is personally for me and it's lovely to hear somebody else, but I'm like, okay, so my kid didn't go to this Ivy League college or my kid didn't go here, but my kid is not breaking the laws. You know, they have a good job, they're learning. So it's what works for you and seeing, you know, your blessings. and not comparing them to somebody else's because if you do, you'll always think that your level of success is like where you're just horrible at everything. You know, I guess staying in your own lane, not swerving over into somebody else's. Listen, I'm in everybody's lane, so I'm driving home. I love a creator, so I'll give y'all a whole ticket. But you know, being an athlete, this and that's all you do is because everything you do but it's not i think that's why comparison i always looked at it differently because it wasn't a comparison of like a person you know we were trying to beat each other you know i mean and go ahead and tip so i think you know a lot of times like when people would say oh she's got this or he's got that i really do i was even thinking about what y'all said and i don't Thank God that was not one thing I did because I think I was so in tune. just in competing that you cannot compare. You know what I mean? You can't because you learn everything else, but even as a coach, like people say, no, no, no, no. I say, you gotta, you gotta worry about you. Cause comparison is, I mean, that's embedded in insecurities, you know, because it's just like, why would you, you know, apples, oranges, bananas, like here we are, but we're the trifecta, we're a whole fruit bowl. Comparison is the piece of joy. There's nothing like that. The person is the thief of joy. Joy is gay Because you say, and that's what I said, I said, get you busy living. You ain't got time to compare. Like you are stoked. Yes, and I know, but that's your again. But that is, okay, then what are you missing about yourself? And what are you not accepting? Because here's the thing, we all got weaknesses. And we do. And guess what? None of us like them any better than they are. But as an athlete, I was like, yeah, you're good over here. You already know that. We got to hit this weakness or you're not going to get any better. So, I mean, I guess I'm, I'm just, I look at that so differently and I love hearing y'all talk about that. But, and I had to tell my parents too, especially my young parents. I said, I hate, I'm sorry, but I hate that you guys have social media. I didn't know what anybody was doing. I was so tired. I was seeing mama up in it. If y'all are cool like i didn't know and that's how you compare it to social media and especially now with our young kids they're on everything comparing what everyone else has and this this one got a bmw and this one has you know straight a's and you know i just met this guy last night just randomly at an event and he was like You know, I don't remember what we were talking about, but he said, C students are the most successful. And he said, you don't want to know why? And I'm like, I want you to tell me why, you know? And I was like, you tell me why, because I have my own thoughts, but I want to hear yours. And he goes, C students are the best because they have to keep failing and keep going ahead and trying to, okay, I can't get a D on this next one or I might fail the class. So I have to try even harder on this test. And they keep working harder versus A students who are always getting straight A's and it's so easy and it comes so naturally to them. They've never had to try and step up and be harder because they have an experience failing at all. And I was like, that's a really good point. Yeah. And they keep going forward. What, you disagree Yeah. Okay. Because you know, I do academic assessments on IEP, neurodivergent, you know, so I'm looking at that came from education and I think it's just depending because again, when you're looking at gifted kids, yes, academics may come easy, but they're facing adversity in other areas that were other kids. And so I think maybe what I would go, I like the idea because to me, a C is more balanced and you know, a C is like, okay, I'm a hard worker. I'm gonna do this, but I'm still aiming for an A. You know what I mean? I'm still, because that's, that's a personal thing. You know, now is there the, listen, this college outgrow over here or that trip at all. I'm happy with a C because you know and maybe it's just that and I say you got to learn to fight your battles and win maybe. I well I do know that too I grew up both of those yeah because I remember when I was in just getting my AA in and we had to do um statistics. Oh I taught I walked right into my professor's back because I had A's in all my other classes Statistics I knew would be a challenge for me, okay, just putting it on tape. I walked in, I remembered his name, Professor Fisher, and I'm looking at him like, all I need in your class is a C. That's it. I'm not expecting anything else. And I really wasn't. Got a C in his class. So I get it, what you're saying. But because I was still challenging myself, but I knew that that's But even if you take it like as a clinician or as an attorney, right? They have to pass the bar. We have to pass our licensure exam, right? So it doesn't mean that the person that learned how to take a test and study and got like an amazing score on a bar or on a licensure exam is a better attorney or therapist than the one that barely passed their exams. I agree. So that's what I mean it's like okay we we have tried to study and we're not maybe the best test takers how does that person do it means that they're going to be more successful like that's why I personally hate standardized tests I think they're bs that's my own opinion because I feel I feel that all it does is prove that you are trained to take a test and you have to look at everything you have to look at everything. Yeah, and I agree with it. So I mean, I got A's all in other areas. I got the C in Oh, I had I had I have a mixture. I got a Christmas tree. I mean, I really do. And I think that's, and it's been really shitty because I know growing up for us, Growing up for us, we were told, I know I was told like, oh my gosh, you gotta get an A, you gotta get a B, and like putting all that pressure on myself. And yes, I was great at straight A's up until probably my senior year of high school where I was like over it. I was completely over it. You were burned out. I was, I burned myself out. I'm like, what the hell am I gonna do with all this shit? Like, I don't even know college algebra. What am I gonna do with that? Like all this stuff, you know? And look at how I am today. What am I gonna do with it? I'm just like... And you know what? I think with the teenagers that I have now, with some of them, they're so... Their drive is to please their parents so much. That was me. That was my next-year-old girl. Preach! You see what I'm... Like, okay, I feel like if you have done the very best that you can and a fee is but they feel like crap because they're like, I did my best and I still gotta be, be my end. And they're like, they make it reflect on, I know I did that. My lowest point in school was- Were they introduced to imposter syndrome? Yes, exactly. And my lowest point was neurological psych and all about the brain and the anatomy and all this stuff. And let me tell you, I was in this room and I'm like listening, writing notes and I was studying, I did all this. And I kept getting horrible grades on the test. And then I turned my head and there was like these, they're like, they're like, yeah, I was up all night partying and, uh, and they got an A and they got an A. And I'm like, I was so upset. So that's my point. I totally get what you're saying, Robin. Thank you. I get it. And you do. You come from a different perspective. You come from an education academic. And I totally get that. But I so I see both. I see your point. And I also see this guy's point about the whole sneeze and, you know, having to work harder. And at the end of the day, the sneeze get degrees. They really do. And But well, and you know, it's funny, when y'all were talking about when you walk into the stats guy, whatever, This has always stuck in my head. And it's just because, again, you know how you'll have things like in different parts of your life. It was fantastic in my head. And, you know, my doctorate is in education and leadership. And so, you know, I've always been a little bit different. But I remember one class of animals that are like our national summer conference. And I just remember somebody, one of the professors or somebody talking about and listen, you hold your head high, you've done just as much work as anybody, just because your doctorate was in education, don't think it's less. And I don't know why but I was like, what's that name? I don't even remember who said it but it is always stuck in my head. Because to me, I guess, and maybe that's where I'm going, is that I had to put myself through all my school, all everything, work, three jobs, you know, I definitely come from that underdog mentality. figure it out, which, you know, I'm just a grinder. And I'm thinking, I'm in a doctoral program. Like, I'm doing my thing. Why would you, like, it was just weird. And I think that's why I say when people say something like that, because I was like, first and foremost, don't tell me not to put my head up. You don't know me. I'm in a doctoral program. Why? I don't feel any different. Why do you? You know what I mean? And it's just always like, it sounded like that. Whoever said that. Maybe they were basing it off what they thought, what their perspective of it was. But then put your perspective somewhere else. Why would you tell that to a group of not-posties? Right. Thank you. Thank you. Because I don't think I've ever... I mean, you guys, I'm going, it's always just rubbed me in the wrong way. And I'm sure it was just something, love, I mean, who knows? But that's what I'm saying. I think with that, we have to be so careful. you know and it's funny because in class this week we were doing psychological disorders and we're talking about diagnosis and labeling and everything else and oh i love my babies because they're so i got them so where i am you know and and even with that we were talking about you know because mental health is really in the forefront and you know and even with that there's always a checks and balance system and i said there's a lot of misdiagnosis a lot of over diagnosis there's a lot of ideology from out there you know all this stuff and um I said, but you know, we have to be really careful what we're telling people because you walk in and you start throwing these diagnoses out to these people and they have no idea. And they're like, Oh my God, well, I got this. I got that. Then I'm researching this. I'm over here. And then, well, I can't do this because I'm that and I'm that. And I have a lot of that. Oh, well, you know, this, this and this. So I must have ADHD or I have this, this and this. I must have this other. I had to look up. I can't remember what it was, but I must have this personality disorder. And I actually said that is like, who told you? Like, where'd you hear that from? oh well my friend said that she has it and her mom has her on medication and so they start to adapt to these identities of their friends and you know. And where do they go to school? And where do they do their clinical practice? And their name is what? And first name is doctor? Yeah, that Yeah, no and that's the thing is that when it comes to you know labeling yourself and the misdiagnosing and stuff so like I said when it comes to imposter syndrome though we have to be very self-aware. And what is our purpose to, like, is our purpose to get better? Is our purpose to stay complacent and just kind of ride what we're doing? So, you know, if you're an attorney, if you're a doctor, you're a clinician, whatever you're doing, if you're, if your journey is to continue to get better, then that's checking yourself sometimes. And you will have some imposter syndrome come through. You will doubt yourself at certain moments, you know, and we can't let those moments to where someone says, someone says something like that to completely affect you for the rest of, you know, your life. You have to just be like, okay, you know, that's, that's So, um, but even with that, and that's what I tell people too, it's like, okay. And, you know, like I said, sometimes it doesn't affect you until all of a sudden you're like, well, wait a minute, there was that thing that was said. And it's kind of interesting that that bothered me that doesn't now, obviously, but still, and, but even with imposter, Because we were talking about authenticity on one of our other podcasts, but when it really comes down to, listen, whatever the, if you're a doctor, if you're an attorney, if you're a therapist, I go, you're the product, you're the product. How can you be an imposter when you can't? Like you are you. And so if you don't feel as though you are where you want to be, it's still you you know and then what are you gonna do about it how now then what does that look like you know because you're talking about overcoming and like being self-aware i don't think a lot of times people aren't self-aware right until somebody goes you know this is kind of what i'm hearing and they go really yeah you know and then And you can't get defensive either. And that's one thing, you can use what somebody's saying as growth too. And that's one thing, we talk about parents and families and stuff and I love working with families and when I'm having a parent wanting to mend a relationship with their child, whether it's a teenager or an adult, and they're trying to mend it, I always say, what you're doing is not working. You have to change it. And that means something changed about you and what you're doing. You have to change something. So what is it? And it's like, don't become defensive and don't say, no, they need to change. That's my kid. So, and that whole, like, that's my child. I'm the adult. I'm the parent. You do what I say. And that is where a lot of times there's issues, you know, of relationships. So I know we talked about this last week of, you know, last episode is like, you know, parenting and stuff like that and self awareness. And, you know, I'm seeing that a lot, especially with, with, I think it's just a generational thing. people in their 40s and 50s who have like the young adult children or late teen children, you know, they tend to want to control everything every step of the way. And then they wonder, why don't, why don't they want to be home with me? Why don't they want to do anything with me? It's like, okay, well, if that's what you're looking for, if that's your goal, then what you're doing isn't working. So let's, let's listen to your child. Whether that child's 16 or whether they're 25, listen to your kid. Absolutely. And you have to be vulnerable enough and, you know, be humble enough to say, I'm doing something wrong or my kid is not wanting to And I mean, and here's the thing. It's just like power and control is It's not love. It's fear. And it's funny because another thing we talk about, because in development we talk about, you know, you always think in your generation, you do. And I have a client that I work with and you know she's, I think like 30s or whatever, but her mom and dad came in. I worked with them, they were lovely, but of course they're a whole other generation. You know, we were just doing a lot of psychoeducation just to get them to understand because it's like, you know even you know like my mom and stuff what is that how is that it's not it wasn't here it wasn't there and so now they're having to learn this whole language and concept and is it a reflection on me i don't understand and their frustration usually comes in with i don't know how to what i'm scared right i'm scared and i don't know how to fix or help or and and that's why i say weakness is not with you And that's why I'm glad I became a therapist, because I get to see that, and I get to hear it every day from my teenagers. My children are two different generations. So what worked for the millennial generation is not working for my son's generation. And so having to switch between the two and really do a lot of, because I'm big on, OK, listening, like you said, listening. A lot of listening, a lot of loving, a lot of understanding. I will take your approach too. Okay. I don't understand, but help me understand because that lets my son know I'm listening. Right. You know, I want to be able to, you know, meet you where you are so that you won't always feel that you're not being heard or And it's like, if you were trying to control something with your child or a behavior or whatever and they are just gonna fight against you and fight against you and fight against you and it is what it is it's going to happen because why they're at the age that 16 plus 18 plus they're like trying to be figure out who they are without you without you and that is what they need i know it does hurt and it is and it is a part of the growth of these kids and it is a part of that growth and it is the acceptance you know when my son went off to college it was huge it was hard for me it was but that was my problem and I I love that she said that. That was my problem. I love it. I know I shared it with you. I stumbled upon this book and I'm actually listening to an article. I downloaded it. You did? Okay, I'm going to chat with you. It talks about the title of the book is Doing Life with Your Adult Children. The little subtitle is Keep Your Mouth Shut and the Doormat Out. And it really does teach you. I'm joking. It's like, Keep the mousetrap out. You're a mousetrap. You're not out. It's true. It's true. Oh my goodness. I'm doing so many different nuggets from the school because it actually does teach you or show you, you know, the different, the dynamics of, you know, having that relationship with your adult children and when to, you know, when to offer encouragement and Girl, I'm still going with that, shutting that out. I was like, TJ's keeping her mouth shut. Well, you know what? TJ But that is, but that again is a part of your growth as a parent, because you're shifting from a one child who is at a certain age into going into adulthood. You now have to shift. Right. We have to pivot as they pivot, as they grow. And that's the thing is that people need to realize that that's what they need to do. And it's like, if you don't think that you need to change, that your child is the one that needs to change and change the behavior and you're not getting the result that you want. If you're doing it wrong, then you need to humble yourself. You need to say, you know what, I'm screwing up somehow. And that's okay to say. It is better to admit it. You know, and like I said on the last episode, like the challenge that I had with my son growing up in his different stages of life and development and the way i had to shift because i was doing something okay before middle school this is how our relationship was this is how we jived together then middle school he was figuring out who he was he was doing stupid shit like really stupid shit i'll have him on this podcast one day he'll tell you about all the stupid shit oh well the kids are coming reagan already said he is ready he has the outfit and everything I've heard in my house most years, mom don't therapeutize me. You do that to your husband too. Don't feed to Listen, I look to Reagan and I love to share this with uh because he really he's such and all of our kids are great kids but I mean you know they got strong mommas too but I literally look to him because especially when you got the moms that are coming here and the dads and they're just like oh my god oh my god let me tell you something right now i said i looked at my chat he was already digging me i said only one of us is gonna make it out of puberty and it does not look good for you yes i was like oh my god like who are mom i'm really sorry damn like i mean yeah absolutely i mean but it's true like when you said who are you it's like you raised these little tiny humans and then all of a sudden one day you wake up and it's like who are you the gremlin you tell a gremlin with my child yep what have you done like my my son did like to me it felt like you get a boy six days like it's like now you no longer need me and that was hard that is hard but i am first-hand learning, okay, because, you know, my son's different from my girls. My girls were, they were needy, they needed me, and I liked it, you know, and, you know, today we have a really great relationship, but he's 19 and he's already like, no, I need to cut this off. No, I don't want your advice on this, and I'm not used to that, but I'm learning, and We have to step back, and like you said, we have to see what we're doing wrong and realize that sometimes the way we're reacting to that behavior is a us problem or we're experiencing something because it's something that's triggering something within us and we have to realize like you said you'd like to be needed that's something that you like but that's nothing bad but that's who you are right because it wasn't bad when they because when they needed me and it worked and it worked for your other kids but don't when you're laughing better cut it out but that's okay and that's what i'm saying it's like But you need to recognize it. You need to recognize it. You know, like I know my, I definitely know mine and my kids are completely opposite and different from each other. And it is what it is. And now like I can say, oh my gosh, my 20 year old and I are so close. He calls me from college. He wants to talk to me. He calls me in the middle of the night when some drama is happening. He calls me. Okay, and I didn't tell you about that, but I told TJ, but yeah, so he called me. And it's like, okay, well, I'm doing something right. He wants to hang out with me. He I don't want to see y'all. It's in Italy. That's all we gotta do is call you in the middle of the night. TJ, yo, girl, we shot this. We shot a little Italian. Yeah. Chiavella. Chiavella. Chiavella. And she's going, yeah, yeah, adios, and whatever. I don't know. Wait, when she goes, oh, oh. When is it? Oh, when is that? Because that's going to be a timing. That's going to be a timing. You guys will have a podcast about me when I'm in Italy. yeah anyway i don't even want to know but i'll watch it later anyway you trained us yeah i know no what's funny because you guys know i mean i have one birth child and two you know they're my adoptives ish um my former students and so all three boys all different oh my goodness all different but reagan of course my birth baby and uh 22 now and i gotta tell you guys because he now goes mom remember when you said that I don't care if I didn't go ahead because I'm looking really good right now. Like because it's like now he's coming out to me and I'm going. It's a great moment, right? Yeah, I mean, yeah, you know, of course I did. Yeah, what did I say? She's fantastic. Yeah, what a great mom. Because, and it is, and he is, he's doing these things. I'm like, yeah. again who are you right they come back right who are you that could be that could be the best for that who are you But these are the moments that you got, you embrace yourself and it helps you like, this is who I am, like this, this is who I am. And we can apply that into our personal lives, we can apply that to our professional lives, like this is who we are. And let's, let's keep growing. And so if you're struggling at all, with, you know, questioning if what you're doing is right out in the world, I don't care what you do as a profession. And, you know, just acknowledging that there is a lot of different you know, facets that come into play about who you are and what you're doing. And it's okay if you're questioning if what you're Well, and again, I mean, that's the only way to grow. That's the only way to grow. I mean, and again, People don't talk about nobody, so. Always find yourself a good therapist. Yeah. We don't know, but if you know a good therapist, let us know, because we would Well, thank you all for joining us. That is all we have for today, and we look forward to continue this weekly. Have an unhinged week. See