How Adult Friendships Change: Boundaries, Loyalty & Seasons of Life | Therapists Unhinged Ep. 14

Friendships CHANGE… But THIS Is How You Protect Your Peace

This week on Therapists Unhinged, we’re getting raw, real, and unfiltered about one of life’s toughest topics: friendships and boundaries.

Dr. Robin, TJ, and Nella get vulnerable about:
✔ What healthy friendships actually look like (spoiler: it’s not the front-door friends)
✔ How to spot a backdoor friend vs. an energy taker
✔ The hidden grief of outgrowing friendships
✔ When to set boundaries, when to walk away, and when to fight for a friendship
✔ Navigating adult friendships, who stays, who goes, and why it’s OK

You’ll laugh, reflect, and probably rethink some friendships after this one. Whether you have struggled with toxic friendships, felt guilty about cutting people off, or wondered why some people drain you, this episode gives you the real talk you have been needing.

Transcript

TJ: 0:00

I've learned and I've developed those healthy boundaries for me.'cause I've had to say that to a few friends in the past. Like, Hey, this friendship is not working out. And I just think that it's best that we just part

Dr. Robin: 0:09

ways. When you have the growth mindset and you know that your path is where it is and it is a tough path, but it's your path. Some people are not going to be on it with you all the time. Because their path is different, and even on that side of it, it is hard to let go of friends.

Nella: 0:36

Well, hello everyone. Hello. Hello. Welcome to episode 14 of Therapists Unhinged. And today we're back with just the three of us. We've had a lot of guests on the show, and we'll keep having them. Um, but today we're gonna be talking about something that I think everyone can relate to, which is friendships and boundaries. Ooh,

TJ: 1:02

all. It's a big deal. It's, that is a big deal. A deal because,

Nella: 1:05

you know, hey, we're social beings, so we all, you know. I have friends, we interact with people. And then I know one big thing that a lot of people have a problem with is boundaries with those friendships. Mm-hmm. So, you know. Tj, what do you have to say about,

TJ: 1:22

you gotta start with you. I already knew that. Like why did I know TJ was, I was ready. Oh. The

Nella: 1:28

thing that you see, like your, your clients go through, like when it comes to friendships and creating boundaries or issues that arise.

Dr. Robin: 1:35

Well, actually, hold on. Can we just start with, can we like, do a foundation of like, what is even a healthy friendship look like, I guess. Maybe start there or should we not? Well, I mean,

Nella: 1:43

that's all subjective. Really. True, true. So, I mean, subjectively speaking, I would say a friendship means. Um, someone who is, you know, going to be there for you when you need them. Is it, you know, you enjoy being around them. You en you can pick up the phone and they're dependable, you know, loyal. Those, those are just some traits that I see. Absolute. See. Absolutely. Yeah. And friendship. What about you? Anything you wanna add to that?

Dr. Robin: 2:09

And that's what I was gonna say. But also I think one thing is that it's a give and a take.

Nella: 2:12

Oh, absolutely. It's a give and a take. And that's what

Dr. Robin: 2:14

I was gonna say.'cause I was thinking like sometimes let's, you know, let's make sure we set that foundation even though it is different. Mm-hmm. You know, because I think a lot of times. Just even with that, like people's definitions of Right.

TJ: 2:27

And in mutual respect, of course, you know? Right. Um, something that I share with my clients, especially those who struggle with, you know, setting boundaries and friendships is look, you know, it's a give and take. It doesn't look the same though. Because I'm, I'm, I'm a big girl on like seasons. So I go, this may be your season to give and it may be the other person's season to just receive. So there's a pouring and the pouring into, but then there's also a pouring out and sometimes those, those friendships may not look balanced. Mm-hmm. To, you know, others. But it is in certain ways, because I may, this season, I may need something from you, right. Because I'm going through so much and you are there for me. So it's mutual. Then there may be a season when you're going through something and that, you know, I, you, you need something from me or I need something from you. So it's definitely built on mutual respect. Um, you know, setting healthy boundaries look like, you know, giving me space, you know, and also having space for yourself and just knowing when to. Not necessarily draw the line, but just knowing how far to go. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Learning that person. It's a relationship. It's, it's a relationship that you learn, that person learn their, their nos, their yeses, their gives, their takes, and vice versa. So that's where that mutual, you know, respect comes from.

Nella: 3:48

I like that. That's very true. The mutual respect is, I think, key, you know, and, and for me in, in my age, you know, 41 40,

Dr. Robin: 3:57

she's a baby. Little embryo. You little baby.

Nella: 4:02

So in my, you know, experience, um. Of course we look at friendships differently at different stages of our life. Of course, that's a huge thing. Mm-hmm. So, you know, when you're in elementary school, you know, children look at it as, you know, their playmates, someone fun to be around and things like that. And then as you get into adolescence, there's more of that loyalty expectation I think, that they have on their friends. Um, you know, and, and mutual respect. And then I think when you get into adulthood. Things start to really shift, especially I would say, like for me and from what I see with clients is like this shift of, okay, people are going in different directions, maybe in their life. Are you gonna come along with me and have, you know, go along with me on my journey, even though my journey may not look the same as yours and, you know, are you going to, you know, be there when I need you? Mm-hmm. You know, you may not be able to talk all the time, but you know, or see each other. But I know that I can depend on you if I need you. Absolutely. Um, and I've learned, you know, friendships, kind of like what you said with certain seasons. I think people too are. Certain circumstances, they're friends. So you may have a friend that you like to travel with, they're really fun to travel with. But you know what, um, every day you don't wanna invite them over your house every day. Right. Or there may be that friendship that, you know, you can call up and go have a dinner, dinner with, but maybe that friend won't be like, as much fun as say, like spontaneous. Like, Hey, do you wanna go to New York this weekend? You know, that may not be the friend for you. So I think I've learned to d you know, differentiate. Yep. Friends for different things too.

TJ: 5:38

I'm smiling because you're reminded me of so much. Like it, like you have friends that are acquaintances, you have friends that are associates, Charles, you have close friends, and I'm, I, and then, um, you, and like you said, you have friends that you will share like your intimate stuff with, but then you have another friend who you may just be all fun and games with, but. I call the most intimate friends, the ones that you know, they're gonna be there for you. You're gonna be there for, I call them backdoor friends. Now backdoor friends are the ones that if you, if you take a house right. And you enter from the back door, people can't really see you coming 'cause you're coming from the back door. So a backdoor friend is that friend that comes in from the back. She doesn't care how messy your house is. She doesn't care if you know the kids are like, you know, disheveled. She doesn't care if she's fighting with the husband or not. She just comes in and she doesn't judge and she just sits there and she just wait until you're done. And then she's like, okay. How can I help you? Mm-hmm. So those backdoor friends are those ones where, yes, you have already developed most of those boundaries that you need. Those are the ones that you have carried through with you through the roughest of times. Maybe you've experienced a divorce and they've been there, you know, maybe they have and you've been there. But those are those friends where it's like through thick and thin, it doesn't matter. We may have disagreements, but at the end of the day, we still love each other. I love that and, and that's what I like. I like friends where I can just really be honest and go, you know what, girl? You really need to get it together because you're like, you know, hey, and I see you falling apart. And if I can't share that with a friend that I call a backdoor friend or a friend that I call a personal friend, then are we really friends And vice versa? Tell me when I'm like, you know, I'm unhinged. Tell me, you know, Hey girl, you need to dial it back a little bit and I'll receive that because I know what kind of friend you are and what kind of friend you've always been. I like that.

Dr. Robin: 7:28

I mean, the back door, that is so cool because. I've never heard that and I love that because again, it's like, you know when you come into the front door, you're a guest. Bingo. Yeah. And I was just like going, I literally am picturing like the house and thinking about. TJ know, both of y'all know, like, if anything hap I'll be like, I don't care what door it is, I'm coming in, like I'm coming, you know, y'all window that like, I will be there swimming through around the pool door, whatever we need to do coming through the roof, I'll be Santa Claus, you know? But I do, I thought that was, that was such that I know I, I'm gonna, I'm gonna start to think about that. The back door. I know I was just like going, where is she going with that? But it is, I mean. I always say that, you know, I have a ton of acquaintances and a very, you know, close set of friends. And even with my, because I've really, I had like my, like friends like for a long time. But even with them, you know, there are different things that even we do and have shared together. And also it's like. Just right before I got in here working with one of my young clients and we were talking about friendships. That's why when you said that, I was like, oh my gosh, we just did that. And you know, one thing that I know that I have said to a lot of my clients lately is like, you know, do you think it's possible that you have outgrown that relationship?

TJ: 8:43

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Robin: 8:44

And because, you know, again, it's like when you have the growth mindset and you know that your path is where it is and it is a tough path, but it's your path. Some people are not going to be on it with you all the time.'cause their path is different. And even on that side of it, it is hard to let go of friends. Mm-hmm. That have been there in certain things because there's like, well I don't want to leave them. I can't not be me. And so even with that, I mean there's a lot of just even understanding the mutual respect of I love you, but I, I love me and I, you know, you always be a part of my life. And if you show up over the road here, then great. But I think there's also that understanding too, boundaries within yourself and who. You know, is gonna continue or not continue. Absolutely. And being okay with it. Well, and also you said something too, and I know that we talk a lot, is that Yeah, you know, I'm on big person on, you know, love speaks the truth and love is not just all about allowing anybody to do whatever they want all the time. That's not right. I mean, that's not love because to me it's like when you love somebody and you know that person and you know yourself, like you were talking about like TJ and I know all three of us and we do, we backdoor, we have, you gotta be to do what we do, you know? And sometimes sure we get frustrated and you know, we get and we just go, you know what? That's okay. That's okay 'cause we're in this together. But I love this person, you know? And, and I know, you know, you guys tell me all the time, okay, Robin, like, you know, or this or that. We go, t you know, I'm just letting you know, are you good? Because this, I didn't even realize that was going on, you know? And it's because it's like when you love your people, you don't want them to hurt. You don't want them to go down a path that, now granted they're still gonna take that for whatever they take that, but to me, I'm like. The truth is, I see you better than that. I want you better than that. I don't want you hurting. And if like, let's say you're doing something, whatever to cope or whatever, that's not healthy, you know? And then it's still a boundary. Do I step in, do I not? You know, even with that, like how would y'all handle that if you had one of your back door friends? Mm-hmm. And you know, he or she's really going through it. Like

TJ: 10:58

the only thing that comes to mind for me right now.'cause sometimes. There are times where you just wanna cut through the chase. You just wanna go in head on. It's like, hey, you know? But then there are times where even though it may be a backdoor friend, it just depends on how well that friend receives stuff and how they mm-hmm. And how they receive it. So sometimes you can just tell a little story, right? And you can include them in the story without telling them they're in the story to see what their take on it is. And, and I'm reminded of that. I'm, I'm, I'm gonna go biblical real quick here. There's a story in the, in the, in the Bible where King David was like doing all this crazy stuff. Mm-hmm. And Nathan, the prophet came to him and he said, and Nathan gave him a story and he said, Hey David, what do you think about this, that, and the third? And he goes, oh, a person that does that should be killed. And he goes, who would do such a thing like that? And Nathan says, well, that man is you. Mm-hmm. So sometimes you have to like tell a story or you know, just at least. You know, set the stage mm-hmm. For what you wanna say, because you know it, again, it depends on what's going on, what, what it is that you, you, you know, you want to talk to this person, your friend about, and, and just take it from there. But then there are those times where it's like, you gotta go, Hey look, I just gotta cut through the chase there. You know what's going on. Or, I see you here and I know that's not normally you, but right now this is you and we need to try to fix it. Or what can we do to fix it?

Nella: 12:17

Yeah, and that made me think too of like, I had a childhood friend I'd known since I was 12, and you know, she went on her own path. She got in, you know, I got, I obviously got married, had kids, well, her path was different, you know, she didn't get married or have kids. She was in relationships, but she never did that well. Eventually when she was in this unfortunate, toxic relationship and I was seeing her through this and I was trying to be there for her, um, she got sucked in. He was a complete hardcore definition textbook of narcissistic personality. And, you know, with that isolation and, and all the stuff that she was going through, it got to a point to where it was exhausting for me to continue going down the same things that he was doing and, you know, unfaithful and all this stuff. She ended up moving very far away. And her and I still kept in touch, but not as deep. Well, here we are probably, you know, it's about a year or so after she's finally got outta this relationship and she needed to do all these things to, to have help and reached out to me and I jumped on that train and, and was there to help her because she, I still cared about her, right. I just couldn't go along on that journey with her anymore'cause I couldn't do anything. I had to let her. Figure it out. Absolutely. She figured it out and now she's healing and, but she is saying constantly like how grateful she is for the friendship. That I was the, one of the only ones that was really there for her. And now that she's healing and, and got rid of this horrible person and her life, I'm there for her. Now we're like, we've almost like reconnected. Mm-hmm. Our friendship. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And so I, it makes me think like maybe someone is. That season is done, but maybe it'll come back around again and leaving that door open. Yeah. Like it doesn't have to end badly, but, um, if you do have a different journey and a different path. Letting that kind of happen, and then you never know what could bring you back together.

TJ: 14:07

I like that because, you know, and Robin said it earlier, if, if you're trying to help those kind of friends and, but at the same time you're losing yourself. Mm-hmm. You gotta know how to separate and that's a boundary and say, Hey, that's my boundary. Yep. And, and you know, we talked about this. I've tried to help as much as I can, and sometimes you do have those friends where they appreciate the help, but they don't, they still don't accept the help, right? Mm-hmm. And until they're really ready. Until they're fully ready. And so I believe that you have to like park that friendship like you did, park that friendship and say, Hey, I'm always here for you, but I just can't keep going through the motions with you. Mm-hmm. Because I'm losing myself, you know? And so when, when you do find what it is that you want or you know what direction you wanna take, I'll be here. And so that's what that sounds like. It's great parking, that friendship. Mm-hmm. And making sure that you keep yourself, you know, you don't lose yourself while they're trying to find themselves.

Nella: 15:01

And I don't know if you, this has happened to either one of you, but like I know one thing for me that I've seen, and I've, I've actually spoken to other business owners, um, you know, that this happened to too, is like when you go onto a different path, there's gonna be people that. Are either, I feel like one gonna go on that journey with you, right? They're gonna go along with you and they're gonna support you, and they're gonna be one of your biggest cheerleaders, right? Absolutely. Then there's gonna be the people that will keep speaking to you and be there for you, but it's for their own agenda. Like, Ooh, I wanna keep her on my back pocket now. Mm-hmm. For when I need her again. And then there's the ones that are gonna be the haters, which you would call haters. Oh, yeah. That are gonna be there. Like, what is she doing over there? She's, she's doing what over everything. Right? She's doing what over there? Eat some popcorn water. Right? Yeah. And then those are the ones that are kind of like disappear because for some reason they don't, uh, like what you're doing. I don't know. That happen's because they don't

Dr. Robin: 15:53

like themselves. But remember I said, you just said that literally I have written down here what we just talked about. I said, you got your energy givers and your energy takers. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And that's what I said. As your path goes, I said, here's the one. The givers are there regardless. You don't have to see 'em every day. And they're, and they're celebrating you because that's what makes up they love you. And again, but it's the takers and those are the ones, and that's, those are the ones that hurt. Because it's like, again, when you know that you are doing everything in your power and you love everybody and you, you're authentic. That's the hard part, you know? Mm-hmm. And I know that. Learned it. We all have, yeah,

TJ: 16:28

we all have learned it. Yes, we've all been hurt by certain friends.'cause you know, just a transparent moment, like I struggled with in my early adult years, twenties, early thirties, I struggled with friendships. You know, and I'll be honest, I struggled with women friendships because, you know, my hit, it had always been hurt, painful, you know, gossipy people, you know, and different things like that. So, but the older I got when I started setting my boundaries. And my boundaries also, uh, differ when it comes to different friendships. Mm-hmm. Right? Because some people will take advantage of you or they will try. So you have to set a certain kind of boundaries with those people, you know, and then some people will fit, they will mentally drain you, and it's like, wait a minute, my social battery is depleted. Like I, I have maybe 15 minutes to give you on the phone, and that's it because I need to start making dinner or I need to really focus on other things. But. It took me a while to really like, connect with women and, and, and create those kind of friendships that I know that I don't have to worry about my business being thrown over the street or them wanting something from me that, you know. They shouldn't, you know, your agenda, right? Like having an agenda that say that. Because I always, always, always like, what are you come for that hidden agenda? What are you coming for? Mm-hmm. You know, and I'll be honest, you know, through, through a lot of prayer, you know, um, and just God revealing to me, okay, this is, this is a friendship. Like you can take you, you know, it's okay. You know? So I, I've, I've learned and I've developed those, you know, those, those healthy boundaries for me. And when I say, Hey, you know what, this isn't working out. Because I've had to say that to a, you know, a few, that was gonna be my question. Like, Hey, this friendship is not working out. Um, it, you know, and I just think that it's best that we just part ways and I've done that, you know, I've done

Dr. Robin: 18:18

it too. Yeah. You have to now. And, and even though, and I know we talked about relationships a few weeks ago, and, and I'm telling right now, I almost feel like I can handle breaking up in a relationship more than I can a friendship. Because friendships, to me, they're so few and far between, you know, because everybody's got their thing. But like you said, even you know, this person and you know. Letting them kind of go do their thing, even when you go, just gonna sit back. Mm-hmm. You know, and it hurts, you know? And then when they come back and, but it's almost like, I'm so glad that you were stable and you did everything because that was almost like the basis that she needed to go, wait a minute, you know what, I'm, I'm not doing what I'm supposed to be doing, but. You know, tj, you know, again, thank you for sharing that. And we all know, I mean, me coming from athletics and everything else, I always was with the guys. And so even coming here, and I know with Nella, um, I always talk about, you know, our interview and how funny it was. And I told her, I said, oh my gosh, there's all girls here. Like, I don't know how to do this. I dunno what to do. I wasn't in no board. You know what I mean? And I was just like, and even in my head thinking like. I'm not really girly, you know, I mean like I'm literally, before we started this and I'm like, look at y'all's nails. Oh my God. You know? And I'm looking, going, yeah, I've always been coaching so there's no nails. And I mean, even just learning that and you know, but I think a lot of it was just that, like TJ said, whatever her situation, but mine was just, I just didn't know. I didn't know how to like be a girl. Like, it just didn't make sense to me. I mean, I'm a girl, but I mean like those things just, you don't. I don't know. I don't get my hair. I, I don't know. It's just, so I think I was always just nervous, you know, always nervous around women because there was a lot of things that they talked about that I just didn't do. Like, you know, I was only married a short time. I've been a single mom. Like, I just do a lot of things on my own. So it was kind of like. I don't know how to do this, but I will tell you that, you know, being here with all these wonderful women, wonderful women, oh my gosh. Mm-hmm. I mean our, you know, I know when TJ and I do interviews, like we just tell 'em how amazing and empowering, you know. That, that these women are, that we get to work with, you know? And even the women that I get to work with as clients, it has been so, like, it's actually taught me a lot and how to be a little softer in some areas.'cause I think what you were talking about is the readiness factor, is that sometimes even when we see our friends, you know, sometimes we have to sit back and go because. You know, are they even ready to hear this?

Nella: 20:45

And I think too, it makes me think of, we talked a lot about expectations that we have on Oh, yes. Mm-hmm. Different people. Mm-hmm. I think too, the expectations is a big piece of friendships. Like absolutely. You know, what is it that you're expecting of them? Are you, are you expecting them to give what you're giving? You know, good. Are you, that's good. Gonna expect you know them to be loyal. Are you gonna expect them to be there when you need them? Like really, what are the expectations? Because unfortunately, sometimes, and I hear this with clients, you know and stuff, it's like your expectations need to be lower initially until they have proven themselves that they're gonna be this loyal or that, you know. Consistent. They've showed that consistency throughout your friendship. Right. Because a lot of people I know for me that was one of my big things growing up is I always expected people to give what I'm giving into the relationship and it, and I've learned the hard way, but people don't do that. And that was my fault for automatically putting high, high expectations. Mm-hmm. On friendships. So I know I tell my clients that too, when they're like going through something or like, you know, let's say they just become a mom and you know, they're the only ones with kids now, and how, you know, the expectations of her friends inviting her and, you know, things like that. I, I, I hear a lot and it's like, okay, well what are the expectations that you have set for this friendship now that you've transitioned to a different role? Mm-hmm. In that, you know, in your life

TJ: 22:02

or, so that is a very big piece because you do have to know those expectations. And like you said, they may look different mm-hmm. From friendships, which is what, what I was sta stating earlier about like, you know, how you pour into your friend may not be the way she pours back into your heat. Mm-hmm. Pours back into you. But if you know the expectations upfront, then you're not disappointed at the results. Yep. You

Dr. Robin: 22:26

know? Well, and also I always say like I, again, if I have a client coming to me and going, Hey Dr. Robin, like can you fix my car? I mean, I Are you gas in it? You know? But don't be mad with me because I can't fix your car'cause I'm not that friend. Mm-hmm. And that's what I'm saying. So it's like, yes, you gotta know too. Like, you know what, again, this is my friend I travel with.

Nella: 22:52

Yep.

Dr. Robin: 22:53

I'm not gonna give her this because that's not fair to her or him because that's not their role in my life.

Nella: 23:00

And the acceptance that you may not be everyone's. That, that person for everybody. Exactly. Like in every, every situation. Exactly. So I've learned that people having those expectations on me, inviting them to certain things and, oh, why didn't I get to go to that? Or Why didn't you tell me about this? Oh, I didn't know that was going on with you. I, I had no idea. That's been going on for six months. And I'm like, I just didn't share that. And it wasn't, it was like that person was not that person for that circumstance, you know? And so that's too is, is.

TJ: 23:30

You're right about that. I, I had, I met this, um, woman, it, it's been like maybe two years now. And when I first met her, our con we hit it all, our conversation was good. And, and then she goes, oh, I already know we're just gonna be best friends. And I go, uh, back it up. No, we're not Uhhuh. I'm not looking for a best friend. Mm-hmm. Like, that's not gonna happen. But we remained friends for that duration of whatever it was that connected us. And it's not like we're not friends now, but I haven't talked to her in like. Not at all this year. So you know that that's another thing too. It's like sometimes people go, when they say, oh, we're gonna be best friends. Like no, we're not. I just made what is their definition of best friends? Right. What is your definition? Because I,

Dr. Robin: 24:12

yeah, no, so that's what I was just gonna, that was about one of my questions is that codependency, and remember we talked about trauma, bonds in relationships, but I mean friendships too. There is that, you know, it was funny 'cause when you had said before, like. We were trying to just define a healthy relationship and it was, they're gonna be there for me, they're gonna be there for me. And I had a client I worked with and she goes, oh my gosh. Like I don't know what to do because now that I'm over here on this side and I have this friend and I love this friend, and you always hear the but

Nella: 24:47

mm-hmm.

Dr. Robin: 24:48

I go, but here's the thing. As you level up and as your circumstances and everything changes. You change and you can still love that person, but you're not operating from that anymore.

Nella: 25:00

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Robin: 25:01

But you can't get mad with them because they're still there. But that is still I think, a boundary of like, okay, but you know, I do love her, but I also know who she is. And I'm not that anymore. Right. You know, and then handle it with grace and you know, 'cause sometimes it's just like, oh my gosh. And, but then you get into that guilty like, why am I, I'm not anything better. And I'm like, but even that and not, 'cause you said acceptance. Mm-hmm. Self-acceptance, knowing who you are, knowing your own boundaries.

Nella: 25:29

Yep. And I'm guilty of being that and well, I'm the first person to say, that is not for me. I am not that friend that you wanna take with you to there. Like I have, I have some, uh, I would say one of my closest, closest friends, um, her youngest is I think 11 or 12. And of course, you know, my youngest is 18. I am so far past a little kid. Annoying stage. Like, I don't wanna be around your damn kids. I don't wanna be on kids on vacation. She don't like your kids. Don't be have kids. I don't want your damn kids around me. So my, she the truth boss lady. Seriously? So, and I love my kids and I used to love little kids, but I have enough of them. Alright. You don't

TJ: 26:03

have the patience anymore. That's what, and Rob is a weird, I have like, this is so great.

Nella: 26:09

So, so I have some friends with the little ones, right? Mm-hmm. And I have some crazy friends. You know who you are out there? Who decided to have a, a baby in your forties now? Alright, you're busted. But

Dr. Robin: 26:19

I do not want that wine.

Nella: 26:21

Listen, keep that wine from me. Listen, don't, I don't wanna be around for the little 1-year-old birthday parties. I'm sorry. That's not me. So I have friends who, like I said, one of my closest friends, her little girl's, 12, she just had like a birthday party. I wasn't invited. I was like, you don't have to invite me. And you didn't feel bad, bad at all. Right? And I know she loves me, but she's like, now I know you don't like kids. I'm like, listen, I am not heartbroken. I will send her a Venmo. And that is a birthday gift. You know, she can go shopping or whatever. Like that's a perfect example of what we just say. That's what I mean. Exactly. You know, she goes on cruises sometimes when she takes, they take all their kids and I'm like, how many of you bring in your kids?'cause that's not my cruise. I don't wanna go because when I'm on a cruise, I stay away from the kids zone. I like, I mean, I love it. Reality, love mean, and I say that I raise my head like, that's not for me. Don't invite me. Mm-hmm. You know, same thing with people like. Like, you know, I still have friends who are like into like going out every weekend and bar hopping mm-hmm. And doing all that.'cause they're like, I have a lot of friends who don't have any kids either. Their kids are adults and they actually go drinking with their kids. And um, 'cause they're all older now. Mm-hmm. That's not me. I don't wanna do that. And. So they got, they got over. They're not inviting me anymore, which is fine.'cause I'm like, I'm not gonna go, so you don't need to invite me to those things. Right. So they know

TJ: 27:28

your expectations. They know my expectations when it comes to that. Like, and I

Nella: 27:30

don't get hurt. Yeah. It's like, okay, please go out bar hopping. I just do not need an invite, so I'm not gonna

TJ: 27:35

go. Right. Right. Now on the flip side of that, my kids are grown, but I have grandkids and so some of my friends have, well, like one of my, my good friends now, she's just now, well, she's just now having her grandkids. And they're like toddlers. And my grandkids the youngest, it's like five, but hers are like baby babies. But we connect on that level, another level now. Mm-hmm. Because that is another level of our friendship because we now have conversation as it relates to the grandkids. But I do have friends who they don't have grandkid. And it's like, if I'm having my grandkids for the weekend and I wanna take'em to the park or whatever, I can't call them because they don't have grandkids. Yeah. They're not gonna wanna come. Exactly. So I, I, I agree with that. It's like when you know your expectations for the friends that you have and the things that they do, and vice versa,

Dr. Robin: 28:25

you're good.

TJ: 28:26

Yeah.

Dr. Robin: 28:26

And it actually inadvertently takes a lot of pressure off of other people lot, trust me, because they're like, oh my God, do we. I'm good. I'm tired, I'm grown. I love you. Y'all have a great time.

Nella: 28:38

That's it. Yes. You know, and that even reminds me of like another end. So like, um, I would say like my best, best, best friend she is like my ride or die. My backdoor friend, I'm gonna call her that. Her name's Rachel. If she's listening, she better be listening. Hi Rachel. Hi, Rachel. Rachel, you don't hear this. You, Rachel. Hey, Rachel. Oh, you.

Dr. Robin: 28:54

Not a backdoor in front of you. Got the side, you got the garage door? Possibly. But

Nella: 28:58

she's like a, um, she's a realtor. She's doing amazing her job. I've seen her go through different careers. This has been great for her. And she has now, of course, her own new network of friends because of all the realtors. And so she's very involved in the community. She meets all these people, so she has these friends that she goes out with, that she goes to events with. She's even going on an all girls cruise with them, and it's like. We have a good enough connection to where you, I don't, I wouldn't wanna go with all these people, I don't know. Mm-hmm. So go hang out with them. Go do your thing. Same thing. I can call her up and say, Hey, you know what, we haven't caught up in like a two months. We haven't seen each other. We'll go have dinner. But like that is her group for her networking Absolutely her thing. And she understands my thing too. So like that mutual respect. It's, I think, so hard to come by. It is. It is. It really

TJ: 29:42

is. And, and when you, when you find it in a friend, you, those are the friends that you hold onto. Mm-hmm. You fight for even, right. I was gonna say, you, you hit it. Sometimes fight with even if, even if sometimes, yeah, even if sometimes it you because, because you gotta process and go, okay, is this friendship worth it? Then you go through all the little points, oh yes it is, and blah, blah, blah. So you do, you have to fight hard and I, I think. Because anything worth having is worth fighting for, right? Mm-hmm. So you do have to, you gotta get down to pull your sleeves up and go, okay, right? Like, if we don't get this together, I'm gonna fight you.

Nella: 30:16

Yep, yep, yep. And that's the thing, um, you know, thinking about even like. The, the ones who are just like, let's say young adults who are going through that transition of like, I know both my kids have gone through that. Like, okay, they're going out to college. They're in a different, some of them are not going out to college, some of them are still at home or doing their own thing. Like, so I know, uh, Anaya ISS going through that now too with like, you know, some of the closest friends that she's had are not going along with her or like going their own journey. Mm-hmm. And so like. You know, seeing her go through that and seeing these young adults say like, oh my gosh, this person is not calling anymore. You know, we're going different ways. And it, it's like almost like a grief process. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Wouldn't you say sometimes?

Dr. Robin: 30:56

Yes, of course. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, and it's funny 'cause I use grief a lot and, and because I, I think like when we talk about grief, again, it's one of those words where you just go, whew. Like, because it is, it's one of those words that you think grieving a death. But I'm like, there's death of situations. Mm-hmm. Of course there's, you know, death of friendship. Yeah. There's losses and everything and sometimes, but there's a lot of times where you have to, because again, if you don't grieve that heart, you can't move over here. Like I tell my people, I'm like, it's like you've got one arm here, but you're still trying to hold on to all that. And it was funny, I even asked my one client that we were talking about the kind of outgrowing. You could see her struggling. And I go, what is it in you that you're not okay? You know, losing this friendship or you know, is it, and so sometimes it is, it's like when we stay too long or when we're struggling, it's like, okay, is it them or is it me? Mm-hmm. You know? Which goes back again to knowing you what boundaries or, you know, am I allowed or you know, I mean, it's just all these things. But No, absolutely. I would say you have to grieve that.

Nella: 32:04

Yeah. And that's one thing people, it's the acceptance part of that too, but that of course is a part of the stage of grief. Mm-hmm. So, but I've noticed that too, you know, if the young adults grieving that, that part of who they were, like my son is doing a much better job of doing it. But Anaya just her personality, she's having a harder time, I think, with that process. So.

TJ: 32:24

Yeah. And, you know, and, and, and she's still young too, so it, like at that age, like if you lose a friend, it's like, oh, the world's ending.

Nella: 32:31

Yeah.

TJ: 32:31

You know, even if that friend was not a good friend to you, you know? Right. Because sometimes it is one sided where you like somebody so much and you know that, or they don't return that, or they're not as nice to you, but you still like that person. Right. But then the friendship ends and you still grieve that friendship. You know. Absolutely. But I think of course the older we get, I know the more wisdom hopefully we attain. Exactly. And so Exactly. And it starts to become

Nella: 32:57

easier.

TJ: 32:57

Absolutely. Yep. Absolutely. And what

Nella: 32:59

would you say TJ, like would be like boundary issues that like you've seen that are either common with people or maybe something that you've experienced with boundary issues and friendships? Well, you know, I

TJ: 33:12

think. Sometimes you, you, you have those friends that they overstep that or they overspeak, right? Like I, I, I say, you know, this is what I've told my adult daughters. The more you tell people, the more right you give them to speak into whatever your situation is. Because the first thing that we normally hear is, girl, if I were you, I wouldn't do that. Mm-hmm. Or girl, you need to just cut him a loose or girl, you just need to get another job. Girl, if you, if I were you and my main thing is, but you're not me. Right. I don't wanna know what you would do. Right? Because sometimes what your friend would do is, is not always the right thing to do, but I I see a lot of, you know, um, from friendship to friendship, like a lot of overstepping, you know, or a lot of over speaking or, or, you know, solicited advice or solicited advice of my things I hate. Right? Unsolicited advice. And then when you say, well, you know what, I understand that, but I'm gonna choose to do this, and then they get all upset. Like, that's been a personal experience of mine. But then I also have clients who have said the same, or they're like, well, you know, I don't really wanna say anything to my friend 'cause I don't wanna lose the friendship. And I said, well, if you're stuck on losing the friendship, the friendship's not intact anyway. Yes. Because I'm not stuck on losing a friendship mm-hmm. If I'm having an issue. And of course I've had to learn this. So it's, it, it, you know, it takes time. Mm-hmm. Right. If there's something that I really think that is hindering the friendship or stopping the friendship from continuing, I have to speak to it. Now I'll process it first, but I have to speak to it because if not, we can't move into the direction that we're, that we wanna move in, there's gonna be something that's gonna stop it. And you know, I've had a friendship like that and I'm like, I can't go back to my old ways.'cause my old ways was disconnect and I'm like, I'm good. We don't have to continue this friendship, but I'm trying to, you know. Not allow that to stop the friendship, especially if the friendship is worth saving. You know what I mean? So I think that's like the biggest thing I I, I see a lot of, of girl, if I were you girl, if I were you, girl, you should girl, you should, you know, and I think sometimes, and I'm, I'm learning to be this friend too, sometimes, just listen and I'll ask, would you like me to give you some advice on that or do you just want me to just, you know, listen. You know? Mm-hmm. And a lot of times friends, they don't expect that. So they're like, oh, oh yeah. I just, I just wanna vent. Right? And so I've, they vent and with no judgment.

Nella: 35:38

I like that.

Dr. Robin: 35:39

So one thing you just said was about advice and two times. One client and then also Antonio, my son.'cause we are do have a new grand baby five weeks. So, you know, we're not quite with you yet, but I know, and I know now saw the, well you can't play the part with my dad and is not coming over at all. Sorry. So until you're groan. But um, but it was funny because, you know, uh, Antonio sat me down in something'cause he was struggling in a situation like this and he goes, well, 'cause sometimes, you know, when I give advice and I just went, stop. I go, here's the thing. I go, I know you, I know what's going on. I said, but here's the thing with advice. I said, anytime you give advice solicitor, unsolicited, they can always put the blame back on you. You know? And so some even time with that, like when you said like, do you want my advice? Or you know, even with that. I think that's different. And we obviously know and we do a lot of this stuff, but I'm always like about a perspective. You know, I'm always about a, you know, okay, I know what I would do in this situation, but I also know you too. But have we looked at it like this? You know, instead of like saying, well, and again, I love to build that empowerment other people and say, well, okay, this is your life. What do you want? You know, what do, do you really know what you want?'cause if you don't know what you want. I can't really help you, but if you can get an idea, then we can start to work together. And it is more of like a collaboration. And so, you know, and he was like, I didn't think about it like that. He goes, 'cause a lot of times. They asked for advice, I give it to 'em. They don't do it. I get mad. That's what, and I said, and there you go. Absolutely. Because again, you know, that's, that goes back to that. Do you wanna be rescued or wanna be helped? They gotta do their part. And so, but also, there was one thing that I had up in my office all last week and this week, and, and it really helped me so, so, so much. And it was right online, what you were saying, and it says, people lie patterns don't.

Nella: 37:31

Hmm. You

Dr. Robin: 37:32

know, and so that's the thing when you can see a pattern of behavior because when, when we stepped out of our emotional conditioning and connectedness, 'cause of course when we have our friends and our people, you know, that's where we start to attach feelings and hurt and this and that. But if you can come back and say, okay, but the pattern of behavior. This is what it is. So, I mean, you can say that, but this is what's showing again, and I understand that. And even with that, I think sometimes helps when you're having that conversation about, um, you know, this friendship like it, this is tough to say. However, this is the pattern that I continue to see. And it doesn't work for me, you know? And I'm struggling, you know? And if it's like, even one of these things, like we were talking about making plans with people, you know, and it's like they canceled, they canceled, they canceled, they canceled. But by God, if you don't pick up the phone one time, you know, I'm like, oh, I'm sorry. What?

TJ: 38:33

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Dr. Robin: 38:33

Five times. You aren't here, but you're okay. But you know, and then you go, you have to look at, but their pattern of behavior. That doesn't lie. And that's, and that shows a lack of mutual respect. Exactly. Exactly. And that again, clearly where we thought we were in that relationship is not where they have put us. Mm-hmm. You those expectations. Exactly. Exactly. And so I definitely think that has helped me, you know, trying to understand some things. You know, it's just like, okay, well, but the pattern is there, so I'm not gonna take this on. But then I can also make a decision based on the pattern.

Nella: 39:11

Yep. And I, you know, that the pattern predicts future behavior. So we need to, I mean, that even goes along with friendships for sure. Mm-hmm. So I think that's one key thing too for sure to think about when you're choosing friendships, when you're trying to keep friendships, is looking at the pattern and behavior and also the pattern that you see with them, with their other friends. Mm-hmm.

TJ: 39:29

Absolutely.

Nella: 39:29

So, you know, if you see them be cer, you know, a certain way with the friendships or kind of like. You know, toss them aside sometimes or maybe not listen, or maybe they're talking trash about their other friends. I still say that they're going to do the same about you. Yeah. And I've learned that as well. Like, okay, I know this group of friends. I know what they're, that's why you limit what you say in front of certain people. Um, because if not, you know, it's just gonna go to other. Other places that you don't want it to. Yeah. So, well, that is all for today's episode, A cut time. And, um, hey, if you guys have not subscribed yet, please subscribe because we're getting up there in views, we're getting up there in downloads, so keep doing it. And hey. If you have any suggestions of topics that you want us to do, absolutely talk about, please reach out to us, YouTube. Um, there's also an email link in there that you can do. So reach out to us. Yes. Yeah,

Dr. Robin: 40:19

that'd be great.'cause we, I mean, this is for y'all, so Exactly.

Nella: 40:22

Absolute. We, we'll talk about some topics. We'll even name you if you want to and, and all that good stuff. Yeah. Whatever you wanna do.

Dr. Robin: 40:27

Ask

Nella: 40:27

a, ask a clinician. We're ready for it. There you go. Ready? Tj, what would you do? All right, everyone, have a good day. Thank you.