Anxiety, Overthinking & The Hell Inside Our Heads: Brandon Fairweather

In this powerful conversation, Brandon Fairweather opens up about the silent battles happening inside so many minds today. From anxiety and overthinking to pressure, self-doubt, and emotional burnout, this episode dives deep into the mental struggles people often hide from the world.

Centered around his new book The Hell Inside Our Heads, the discussion is raw, honest, and deeply relatable, unpacking what it means to live in a world that never slows down while trying to protect your peace of mind.

A conversation about mental health, resilience, and learning how to face the chaos inside our heads.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

What's up everyone? We're back on the givea edge. And just before we get started, I just want to thank all our listeners, all our viewers. We are grossing the Apple Charts top 10 this morning with Ross Livermont's episode. And thank you to Ross. It was an amazing episode. Go check it out, guys. And I think today's episode is going to do the same thing. We've got Brandon Fairweather with us. Brandon, how's it going? Hey Jock, how are you? Good man. And I'm excited. Brandon has brought us one of these. And we are gonna chat. He's launched a book called The Howl Insider Heads. We're gonna not give anything up that goes on in this book, but we're gonna chat a little bit around it. And I want to start off with what was happening in your life when you decided I want to write a book.

SPEAKER_00 0:48

Just from where it started. There was a lot that was happening before I decided to write a book. And I think that was part of the start of it. Um, but to try and sum up the answer to your question is really that I was at a low in my life in terms of anxiety. I was at a very debilitating stage of managing pretty severe anxiety and panic disorder, for the lack of a better word. And um out of those sort of depths was like this feeling of this has to mean something, like this has to be for something. I can't be going through this for nothing. Um and we can talk to how I got there and why I got there. A lot of it was medical-related anxiety off the back of a heart surgery in 2011. Um, but ultimately it just got to a point where I was like, this, this is literally that was what went through my head. This can't be for nothing. So I thought, let me start to document these thoughts. I'll try to help someone else who's going through something similar. In my head, I didn't feel like anyone was going through something similar, at least not to that degree. And as you start to open that um kind of chapter of life, you start to realize that there are a lot of people going through it at that severe level and worse. I mean, the kind of step, next step from there is full-blown depression, which I'm grateful to never have gone down that road fully. But um, yeah, that was just it was just turning this, you know, part of the central theme of the book is turning pain into purpose. And I only discovered that phrase as I was writing along. But it was really just a way to to manage, I suppose, a form of therapy. I mean, you can only speak to so many people and counselors and psychologists and even family members. So this was a form of therapy for me, and it was a form of this, I'll hopefully use this one day for a podcast, for a you know, uh a website, a uh an article, whatever. Um, I didn't know what it was at that time. So only more intently in the last three years that it was did it become this thing of let's make this a book. This this could help a lot of people.

SPEAKER_01 2:39

The hull inside our heads that hits deep.

SPEAKER_00 2:44

Yeah. Yeah. Why that title? What do you think of when you when you read it?

SPEAKER_01 2:49

Yes, I think of that little man that that sits there, that if he grows, I'm gonna go land up at a traffic at a traffic robot. A battle from a gambling addiction, it gets clean. Yeah, and I believe that I need to suppress that little man. But if I don't suppress him, yeah, in whatever way, movement, whatever way. If I don't suppress that little man and he grows, yeah, stick it.

SPEAKER_00 3:11

Yeah. Listen, I mean, the the the title was I was I was in two minds about it because you know, some books that come out these days are purely just to catch attention and clickbait and grab your attention and you read the contents and respectfully have you know, some of them don't really deliver on the title, but it just stuck with me. I couldn't think of a better one. I couldn't think of a way to sum up what people don't see, and that's really what the book is about. I mean, mine is more from a medical anxiety perspective, and we'll we'll unpack why that was. But for a lot of people, you can be walking down the street, you can be in a business meeting, you can see famous people, and you just have no idea what's going on inside their mind. Um, especially when you see some of the crazy things that are going on in the world, then especially you don't know what's going on inside their mind. But I think everybody has a part to the their sort of own mental battles and struggles in life of it's just what you don't see. And everybody's got a little bit of this. Maybe the title is a little bit striking, but I suppose it's it's to deliver on that, is to say, like, what is this pain that people just don't see behind the smiles, behind the hard work, behind the success. Um, and sometimes more vividly and clearly, that you can clearly see there is some sort of thing going on inside their head that you just don't know about. So, yeah, definitely about mental health. Um, but I call it a hell because for me it was a type of hell and it was it was a place that I couldn't escape at times and was desperate to rid myself of and to the point that you lose confidence, um, you lose ambition, you lose pride, you lose dignity. Um, there's so much that goes with it. And and uh just having these conversations more openly has been really enlightening. Um, even how we met and discussed, you know, our various struggles. And it doesn't have to be a full-blown trauma, it can just be something you're struggling with, a lost business, a lost loved one, a divorce, a breakup, something smaller, you know, it's all relative. And that's why I've tried to be as universal as as possible with what is it that we don't see and how can we just talk about it a little bit more and just be a little bit kinder to one another in a world that's filled with a lot of stress and anxiety, uh, as it is.

SPEAKER_01 5:07

Yeah, and people mustn't keep it inside, like you say. That silent enemy is what causes the problem. Yeah, I want to read how this book starts. I want all of my viewers and listeners, if you're thinking of buying this book, go buy it. Because listen to the start of this book. Chapter one. Everything begins and ends in the mind. How we see the world, how we react to it, how we either fall apart or find the strength to stand tall. One of my favorite quotes from Henry Henry Ford captures this perfectly. Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you are usually right. The mind is the ultimate battlefield. Whether you think you can or you think you can't.

SPEAKER_00 5:58

Crazy is that. How true is that? It's it's true for me, it's true for everybody, really. Um yeah, it's uh it's been interesting to see how how this book came together. Like in the beginning, and I don't want to digress from the question, but like it initially was just a bunch of thoughts, and I started to structure it as chapters. So like when you read it back, it's like that's that's a pretty cool start. Like, I'm very proud of that. It's an amazing, it's so powerful. Putting myself on the back here, but yeah, I mean, uh jokes aside, like I um that's something that I've lived, and a big central theme of this book is is I'm not a doctor, I'm not a scientist, I'm not a psychologist, and I qualify that many times because I really want people to understand I don't have expertise by diploma or academia. Like I've got expertise by experience, and I've lived that life. I've lived that life of times where I just thought I couldn't. I can't do this. And and that word can't, um I often um say to my two boys, I've got two sons, Luke and Josh, um, absolute light and love of my life. Uh Ali, my wife, and I just absolutely so blessed to have them. Um, and and I always say to them, we never say we can't, we can say we won't, you know. Um, and I and I think that thinking of whether you think you can or you think you can't, you're always right. Like doing anything great or just doing anything in life starts with that belief of, okay, I can do this, I will do this. And and I think in the context of this book, it's about that belief of I can I can make it through this, I can get to a better stage of my life mentally. And like I said, that's why I started writing because I was like, there has to be a better future than this. This can't be my life going forward. And even when I think back now, I don't, it's almost hard to remember that of how I got there. I was almost like, how did I get to such a low place mentally? We had no confidence, low self-belief, just absolute constant states of panic multiple times a day. Um, and I think sometimes you have to get to that low to look for the solutions. You know, often you're always trying to help people and do anything for everyone else, but you have to look at yourself sometimes and be like, okay, I've neglected myself in this thing. I've never really dealt with some of the traumas or the issues that I've had. But that opening is just to set the scene for when you even read the book and you go into this. Like if you've bought this book or whether someone's given it to you, you know, you have to start with a mindset of it doesn't matter how bad you feel today, how depressed, how low, how anxious, just this belief of tomorrow can be better. I want to just take another day and just try get a little bit better because that's how it started with me. I, you know, all these solutions and ideas that I put forward just didn't just come to me and I sold it the next day. In the same way, mental health deteriorates over time, you fix it over time. It's like going to the gym. You don't just get a six-pack tomorrow. Um, yeah, trust me. Um, you know, but it's it's putting in the work, it's it's trying to be more intentional about saying, I'm not going to accept this. And even if that's all you have the energy to do today is to say, even if every day I wake up the same every day for a week, a month, just this belief that maybe one day it's 1% better, 2% better, 10% better, that's when you start to see those breakthroughs. So how we frame everything in life is just so, so crucial. And like I say, um it's it's really just how I've experienced it. So I'm just sharing how I've improved, what resources I've you know used, what techniques I've used, and what I've done a lot of research on as well is to try and just figure out how to how to live a little bit better every day.

SPEAKER_01 9:22

And I love that because people always think there's got to be these big changes in your lives. Yeah. But we forget when there's a small little change, we don't see those, we don't feel those, we don't get excited about them. And we should. Yeah. Because those little changes, those little things, I call them winning streaks, are the ones that count and will make the big one explode when it does happen. Sure.

SPEAKER_00 9:46

And you might have one good day in a whole month, but take that one day and use that light, use that energy of okay, cool. I had one out of thirty, yeah, or 31, you know, then two, then three. And it sounds so dire, but I know people who will be listening will resonate with this. And and I really just hope that the the sort of angle of the book of someone who's just been through it and gets it, but also adds a bit of the drill sergeant approach towards the end of okay, we've got to get up and do some work now. Someone needs to kind of encourage you, motivate you. We can't just sit with our feelings, we need to take action. I mean, this book is yeah, it's my my vision of taking action. So um, yeah, I'm very excited to see how it does. And the true purpose of it is to really help as many people as I can. I just want to get this book in as many hands as possible for those that need it, and uh, I really hope that the content helps them because it helped me. And the truth is, it's how I improved, you know. Um, so it definitely works.

SPEAKER_01 10:38

Yeah, and I think this book's gonna do amazing. But I want to get into something that you mentioned in the mind, um, the inner voice. We've all got this little inner voice, call it what you want, little man, little inner voice that talks to us. And sometimes it can be brutal. Why is that inner voice, why does it become so brutal?

SPEAKER_00 11:02

I think we all are our own worst critics, you know, and um you have to be so careful of, and I do write about it in there, so I don't want to give too much away, but like you the story you tell yourself becomes your reality. You know, what you think you start to say, and what you say, you start to do, and you act out this this narrative, you know. And and I think that's it's a very slippery slope. So if you can start with the source, and and and I think even taking it a few steps further or back, you need to understand where that voice came from. Like why did you develop that narrative? You know, what is the and even just the reason for your anxiety, you know, I've mentioned before mine was related to heart surgery and and medical challenges over the years that I didn't choose but had to endure. And um, and and I think you need to understand, you know, for some people it's trauma, for some people it's a it's a chemical imbalance. Uh there can be physiological reasons why these things happen. There's so much to it, it's so complex, and that's why I've also been careful not to prescribe a one-size-fits-all approach. But definitely one of the, you know, I talk about enablers and disablers in the book. And part of the disablers is is the story you tell yourself. Is if you're telling yourself a bad story, you know, you're not going to get out the blocks. You're not going to be able to start on a journey of recovery or improvement. So that voice is critical and it goes back to the opening, you know, everything that starts in the mind. And your body is just such an incredible biological machine that, you know, there's there's things we'll maybe just touch on later, but there's this vagus nerve that connects your brain to your gut, to your heart, to your lungs. There's this central highway or pathway of everything. And so even just what you think, what you meditate on, what you're dwelling on all day starts to manifest in other areas of your body. And it's just been an incredible discovery of how physiologically there sometimes are things that you can do that just make slight improvements. But yeah, certainly that's that voice that's there. It's not just you thinking it, saying it, living it out. It starts to impact your body physiologically. And that's that's been quite a discovery for me, you know. Yeah, it's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 13:05

And I've heard about that nerve that just attacks everything. You know, when you when your mind is horrible, everything else just flows. 100% becomes horrible. Where do these destructive, when we have destructive thought patterns, where do they usually begin?

SPEAKER_00 13:22

It's it's that's a it's a good question. It's a tough one to answer. Like I think for me, it it came with a slow deterioration of losing trust in my body. Like that's that's the reference that I can give. So I don't want to speak with authority on other situations or or trivialize some of the things that people have gone through, uh, not just in South Africa, but globally. Uh the loss of a loved one, you know, a divorce, a breakup, whatever it might be, um, a gambling addiction. You know what I mean? Like these are these are things that affect your confidence. You start to start to erode on your self-worth. You know, it could it could be anything. Um, so I can only speak from how my mind deteriorated in terms of what happened to my body. Um, growing up, I had this very strong narrative. I can't, I shouldn't, it's not safe because I had this heart condition. And um, you know, I understand um why people in my life, doctors, teachers, sports coaches, even only family members sometimes, they didn't mean to impose any limitations, but there was a care and a love of just be careful, you know, don't go on this roller coaster ride, don't play rugby, don't do boxing. You know, you've got this thing, so you have to be careful. So I'd built this narrative of limitation, you know, throughout my life. And I don't blame anybody for that. I fully understand it. And having two kids of my own, I'm I'm careful not to impose that on them as well, because it's a natural thing. You've got a son, he's running running around playing with the ball in the house, it's a sharp table, you know, I don't hit your head. Like, why would he hit his head? He's not going to choose to hit his head, but there's this constant care. So I get the the approach, but continually building this limitation narrative of I can't, I shouldn't, I mustn't, is not healthy. Um, so for someone who was young growing up with this predisposition to to anxiety or to this limitation belief or limiting beliefs, you know, that was that was a perfect storm. Um and and it starts to erode your confidence. You approach so many different things, whether you want to start a business or a brand or approach a girl, you know, when you're dating, like little things like that. No, those are the same things. You start to look back and think, okay, well, there was some context to that, you know, like why were some guys so confident and others not? And you know, some others, the confidence or overconfidence is also a reaction to um sort of uh you know limiting beliefs or or maybe you know just yeah, yeah, yeah, like just self-importance or whatever it might be. But I I just think people deal with it differently. Some people go into a shell and others kind of peacock and kind of have this fake it till you make it approach, which to be honest is a technique I also use in the book. I'm like, well, if that's all you got that day, do it, you know. I agree. Um, and um I think just getting back to your question, like for me, it just started with that limiting belief of I can't, I shouldn't, I mustn't. And um, and I had to change that. I had to change it through, you know, not avoiding hard things, but actually running towards them. Because one of the things I've realized is that you can try and make your life as cushy and easy as possible. There will come a day of reckoning where everybody will have to endure something difficult, whatever it might be. And uh, it doesn't necessarily need to be physical. I mean, we talk about exercise and some of the things that I did as an expression of breaking that narrative. Um, but ultimately, again, it comes back to that voice and and where does that anxiety and that mental mental turmoil come from? Um, so for me it was just about flipping that narrative and actively, even at times of trying to resist at all costs the things that happen. You know, for me it was mostly related to my health. And um we can unpack those different things, but you know, for other people, there could be other reasons. It could be a partner, a boss, you know, someone that's imposing these beliefs on you, all this pressure. Um, but I think it's just key to not try and avoid difficult things because they will find you in life anyway. And they certainly found me time and time again. So this life of be careful, don't do this, don't do that, don't do this sport, don't go on the roller coaster. Um, and obviously I don't mean be reckless, you know, if there's a legitimate impediment or a limitation, be it health or otherwise, look after yourself, but don't just stay in that bubble of, you know, I've got to shelter myself and stay away because things will find you and you'll have to face them. Choose your hard. Exactly. Exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 17:40

Rather you make the choice than it than it chooses you. Yeah, 100%. Childhood experiences. Do you think that shapes the way we talk to ourselves, that inner voice? You mentioned it a few times now.

SPEAKER_00 17:51

Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Uh I think you've got to be so careful in it. Like, I'm so aware of it. Like I said, having children on my own now, like what you say to them, how you say it, you know, and and if anything, I I probably now have to be careful not to be too hard on them or too motivational where you just want them to be kids and just experience life, you know. So I come in with this heavy perspective of my life and I'm like, smiling because you it sounds like you're talking about me. You impose your beliefs on your kids. So I don't want to go like full swing now and become a drill sergeant in my own house, and I certainly am not. Like, um, if anything, like my parenting style is quite empathetic, it's probably softer than most. I'm I'm the lenient partner, and my wife won't mind me saying it. She's a teacher, so she knows what happens when you don't discipline kids and you don't get them in line, but she also appreciates you know how certain parents handle their children and what you say to them and how you line them up for success or or failure. And so sometimes I catch myself saying something and I'm like, I remember things that were said to me as a child that were pretty hectic at the time, not from my parents, but just whatever it might be, you know, like people who didn't understand something as simple as like PE or exercise, where physically you just couldn't, and you're almost like, you know, you're not pushing hard enough. Like, why aren't you doing what the other kids are doing? You know, like that stuck with me because it was like, okay, well, now that builds on that narrative. I'm not a sporty kid, I'm not someone who can do exercise well. Um, and the irony then of the industry that I now land myself in is is is not lost on me, you know. And um, yeah, I think when it comes to childhood and and even in your teens, you know, it's a difficult stage of life, and you just got to be so careful what what inputs you you give to these kids um because it can literally change their life.

SPEAKER_01 19:34

So trauma, which you also spoke about, comes in different forms. Okay, for everyone, for you it was in a certain format, for me it's a different format. But do you think trauma in a whole changes the brain permanently?

SPEAKER_00 19:48

Absolutely. Um, you know, what I speak about in terms of anxiety, and I'm not detracting from the question or kind of deviating from it, but anxiety is basically a misplaced fight or flight response. You know, everybody has this nervous system that's wired to like our brains. There's even a section in one of the chapters that says our brains are not designed to make us happy. And that's a fact. Like we weren't our brains weren't made to keep us happy all day long, they were designed to help the human existence and body survive. Like it's about survival. And fight or flight is a big part of that. If someone had to drop you on an island and you had to go and fend for yourself against a whole bunch of bears and monsters and tigers and make your own food, you would go into survival mode. And what I've often found is that when you're in survival mode, you actually have more calm and clarity of because now the human body kicks into what it was born to always do. And it's often afterwards that the trauma reveals itself. So there's certainly a lasting and very deep impact of trauma on your brain and on your physiologic physiology, but it's not always evident in the heat of the moment. And I think that's couldn't be more true for my situation. Going through a heart surgery, um, I've spoken about a lot in my life, but I think no one really unpacked, okay, that was quite hectic. They literally opened your chest, you were there, you were in ICU. There was a whole bunch of things that I write about in the book that I experienced, that I saw, that I heard. That was a life and death situation. And that is traumatic in itself. And someone who's been through something similar, if you've been in a car accident, God forbid, or something horrible like that, or had a house break in or been shot or something like that, where you're actually fighting for your life, it's a very traumatic experience, you know. And I know that because I've lived it. But when you're in the moment, you don't think that it's traumatic because you're just in survival mode. So it's about what do I need to do to make it another minute, another hour, another day? And I think that's been um really telling. But the impact of trauma on your brain is immense. And um, my oncologist, because there's a chapter on cancer, which I'm sure we'll get to, um, thank God it's clear, and I'm so grateful for that. But the oncologist recommended a book to me called The Body Keeps the Score. And your body does not forget trauma. So you can deal with it, you can even speak about it. You can feel like it's done. Well, that was my next question. Can it be rewired? It can. And there's some steps in the book that I learned to do. It wasn't as simple of, you know, because when I used to read things like that, there's even a book that someone once gave me and I I laugh about it because they gave it to me and I never actually read it. But I looked at a summary of what it was and it was very scientific and technical. It's also part of why I've written this style of book because it's very conversational. It's storytelling mixed with my experiences. It's not this heavy biological delivery of how to fix and rewire your mind. But there are some tips in there about how you can slowly do that. But every time I saw something like that, there was this false hope of, oh, cool, I'll just read this book and I'll quickly rewire my mind. And then the anxiety will be gone. But that never ever happened because it's steps, it's slow things. And there's things you can do in a panic attack that are short term and are helpful.

SPEAKER_01 22:45

Breathing or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 22:46

But you need to work on the deeper stuff of what's setting this off all the time. And I think that's what the book is a combination of is what to do in the moment. And there's a very short section on that. But most of it deals with sleep, exercise, diet, speaking to people, um, enjoying life, doing things, having purpose. You know, there's so much to it. I can't just say to you, okay, sleep better, you know. And I think people get frustrated. So I forgot what the question was. But so it was can it be rewired, the brain? Can we rewire it? You you you can, um, but it's complex and it's not easy. Uh so again, I don't want to And it takes time. Yeah, it takes time, and I think it's part of the narrative, it's part of your physiology, it's part of your fitness, it's part of how you interpret heart rate increases. You know, mine was very central to the heart. So if I had a deferred pain after heart surgery, sometimes I get a pain in my shoulder or something going in my neck, and it would be like, but why is that sore now? Like I thought this was fixed. And I think a lot of people would, you know, had that thing of, well, now you don't have to be anxious anymore because you've had the heart surgery. It was a great success, thank God. But it's finished now, right? And I was like, that's when the worst anxiety started was learning to trust my body again. And that's a big part of why I experienced a lot of severe anxiety to the point that it spirals and gets worse. And anxiety is not logical. There's never no one can ever understand it and no one can trivialize it because you cannot. What's hard with it is it's it's an invisible wound. You know, if you get a big gash on your head, people can say, oh, shame, put a plast on it. We see where the wound is, we understand you want to take a break. When you're dealing with anxiety or depression, there's nothing visible barring someone who knows you really well and sees your body energy is a bit down or you're a bit quiet or a bit more recluse. Like there's no visible scar or wound, you know, and that's what's so difficult about it. So um it's just a process of taking steps to kind of unravel and get to why it's happening and then figure out ways. So what I was just saying was just there's work that needs to be done. This is not a simple solve. You know, I don't want to go out there and be like, cool, read the book, you'll be better afterwards. My my ambition with the book, and I say it's my ambition because I can't make it a promise to anybody, is healed healthy and stronger in one book. And it's very bold, and it's that's what it has to be, like any mission statement with any project, I believe. But it's not as simple as that. I don't expect people to read it and be cured and be like, cool, thank goodness for Brandon. You know, all it is is just unpacking some of the steps of saying this is what worked for me over several years, not several minutes or months. Uh, you know, it's it's years of of work and and and seeing things and also being vulnerable and also realizing at some point that you literally can't control everything. Because I think that's what's part of that fight or flight is let me make sure I survive, let me make sure I do this, or let me make sure my reputation is good, or that I have lots of followers on on Instagram, you know. We try and control everything. Um, instead of just trying to focus on the day-to-day, the small things, the narrative, the work that needs to be done, to just kind of nurture this mental garden as I as I speak about.

SPEAKER_01 25:43

And this anxiety thing, can it become addictive, Brandon, in a weird way?

SPEAKER_00 25:50

It's a good question. I've never I've never thought about it that way. Um yeah, I I I suppose one of the the disablers I speak about, and this is just where my mind goes to for that question, is is this woe is me approach? It's there's there's a level of comfort of of of attention that you get, especially from loved ones, if you're fortunate enough like I was to have a close family, friends. I've got three brothers, a loving wife, um, great in-laws, I've got really healthy family relationships, which was extremely helpful for me. But I suppose I wouldn't say it was addictive for me, but it's certainly a comfort zone. Um, and I suppose you can get addicted to the comfort of everyone's just gonna make sure you're okay and just pander to you. When in reality, in the real world, like I was very lucky, and I really, my heart goes out to people who don't have the support that I've had. And so I also in writing the book, I realized that I had certain advantages that got me there quicker, maybe, um, or more safely, or you know. Um, so I think that the when you're alone and you don't have anybody, um, that must be 10 times harder. But certainly, you know, if you don't have that support, I would imagine, and I can't compare myself because I was blessed in that way. I can imagine that you can sit in that comfort zone of let's just sit with our feelings and you know the world sucks and worries me and it's terrible. And that's a disabler because you won't grow, you won't get out of that zone. You have to shake that off and and and find a new addiction, like I know so many other people do. And whether that's exercise or writing or business or relationships, you know, be addicted to your family, you know, and you know, swap those addictions, you know, and that's something I know that probably resonates with you. Um, but it's just about being transparent and and and I think just trying to to find a better way, you know. That's that's my my view.

SPEAKER_01 27:38

So I've I wake up often, and I'm sure many other people do at 2 a.m. in the morning with all these anxious thoughts. Okay, why do they feel so believable? So at 2 a.m. they feel so believable, but then when you later think about them or whatever, during your course of your day, your next day, you realize, why was I thinking that like that?

SPEAKER_00 28:02

What is it with anxious thoughts that feel so believable? Yeah, I think especially when you have them ongoing, right? So when you have the same anxious thoughts of mine was, and it sounds silly to say it, but this was the truth was I'm gonna die. Like my heart is not fixed or it wasn't fixed before. So before the surgery, it was there's something wrong. What if I die before I get to fix it? You know, and and those were genuine thoughts. And then afterwards it was like, but it's fixed now, but there's naturally going to be other complications. Maybe there's still a leak, maybe there's some blood internally. These are very graphic examples, but that's what I used to think about. And I think in your mind, and again, it talks to the narrative that you nurture, like you need to actively practice a different narrative of what do you do with those thoughts, you know. Um, and I don't really have the answer to the question. Like, I don't know why they feel so believable. I think part of it is tiredness, you know. Firstly, you're a bit groggy, it's the middle of the night, you're not thinking clearly. And and why is it that the next day you just have a little bit more clarity? You still have the same worries, but it suddenly doesn't feel so bad. Yeah. And I think that's why rest, I suppose, is important. Trying to avoid having the need to wake up, you know, making sure that you're moving your body enough to be fatigued at night at night that it doesn't, is not as restless, you know, or you're moving your body enough to deal with those stresses. And and and I think it's probably trying to avoid having those instances, which takes time. Um, and I'm not saying you must medicate yourself, um, but there's certainly things you can do to improve your sleep that I think is one of the solutions of trying to improve your mental health is is sleep is imperative. Like it's it's something that I and I fully resonate with what you were saying, because for years I would wake up with those thoughts and they were so believable. To the point that because mine was medical, you know, I would say to my wife many times, we need to go to the hospital. And we would actually go sometimes. She would take me there. And the first few times she probably was worried. The next few times was like, you know, cry war foremost. And and and we would know, and we would know it's anxiety, and I would know it. I I really knew in my heart of hearts, I knew it was anxiety, but I had to escape the feeling and I wanted to go to a place of safety. So a hospital was where I knew if something's failing, they can fix it. And it sounds so silly just saying it now, but I'm just trying to be as vulnerable as and authentic as possible. That that was the the biggest battle. It's not silly at all, and thank you for being so vulnerable. No, it's it's it's the truth. I mean, and but again, I'm probably not answering your question. No, you've answered it perfectly. I genuinely don't know why they feel so believable, but I fully understand and I'm sure lots of listeners will will appreciate of flip man. This sucks. Like, why is it why can't you just ignore them? Why can't you just roll it and go back to sleep? I wish. But the other thing is we live in a very stressful time. You know, this world is fast-paced, there's news at the click of a button, and I think it's also just the world we live in of why these things happen. You know, there's enough, you know, that's why I must like keep this fine balance of make sure you're in the know of what's happening in the news. But my general knowledge is shocking. Like, I try and avoid news as much as possible because unfortunately a lot of it is is negative, and that's what makes the news. But there's all these extra pressures and stresses outside of what we just have to cope with in a single day uh that add a whole bunch of extra weight. That's that's unnecessary, really.

SPEAKER_01 31:06

How much of this anxiety is actually fear of the future?

SPEAKER_00 31:11

Yeah, it's it's all fear of the future, really. It's fear of a future you don't know, and it's fear of a future that you're creating in your mind, you know. The mine was again gonna repeat myself, but like this fear of dying, like the fear of no future, I suppose, was more my it was like fear of a future is at least one step ahead because you believe that there's a future. Like I would many times, um, through very, if you look at the experiences, very understandable perspective of you know, the cancer diagnosis was a time that I really thought, okay, this is the one. This is now when you hear that word and you get that diagnosis, you just you don't think you're gonna have much time left. It's it's it's really the first thing that came to my mind was how bad is it and how long do I have left? How much of this life do I have left? And how am I gonna manage my kids, my wife? You know, are they set up financially? Have I done enough for them? You know, what will I do with the next whatever period of time? So um yeah, it's yeah the fear of the fear of the future is was 100% a trigger for anxiety and and fear of something you can't control, I think is probably more the the best way to explain it. You know, it's it's this fear of not being able to control what happens today and tomorrow. For me, it became a fear or an anxiety around not having a future or not a very long one, which sounds very dramatic, but that was the truth. That's how I felt, you know.

SPEAKER_01 32:32

Um and do you think if you change that or if anyone out there listening who's battling with anxiety, just change the if you want to call it the narrative of living in the present. Live in the present. And yes, it's easier said than don't, don't think of the future. But do you think that will help those anxious feelings?

SPEAKER_00 32:53

Absolutely, yes. 100 million percent, yes. Like if you can just try and be more present, and and what I say in there as well is like that's something I still struggle with now, even having gone through all this process and got all this perspective and now written a book and telling everyone how to live their lives, I still struggle every day right now, and I'm getting better at it, like to just be in a moment, to just be in that meeting, to be in that podcast, be in that conversation, have a chat to your wife, have the coffee with the mate, whatever you're doing, uh enjoying the gym session, putting your music in. I've got a lot better at it. But I know now, in retrospect, like if I'd learned to do that a lot earlier, I probably would have taken away 50% of part of the anxiety because you're just living for now. And right now, nothing's happening, nothing's wrong. So even with the worst news, the worst problems, the worst diagnosis, you're still here, you're alive. And I think that is another, you know, component to the book of just being now, just enjoying today and embracing that you might not have tomorrow and not being scared of that, because that's what I was scared of. And it's like, why are you scared of what you can't control? Why are you scared of how many years you've got left? It was probably more real because there was a medical challenge. So other people maybe don't have to think about it that way, but they might be thinking that way anyway. You know, it could just be the pressure of having children, or maybe you're running a business and you're a little bit tight of cash flow this month, you're trying to figure out how to pay your bills, you've got a spouse and kids, maybe you're solo parents, you know, that there's there's different layers to this. And and again, it can be 10 times harder. But 100%, if I'd learned to just be more present and to, you know, take some deeper breaths, just slow things down a little bit, not constantly thinking about what's next, what else do I have to do, what haven't I done today, whatever it is, even the fun things. I haven't gone to gym. Just just enjoy the day, just enjoy every breath, every moment, every chance that you have to be here and make a difference and create a life and do something today. Because we don't know. I don't know what could happen tomorrow. And we've seen it. I mean, the healthiest, youngest, like there's been some real tragedies in sport, in life, people who lose their lives way too young, way too early. No one could have seen that coming. So it's so much, and like you say, it's not an easy thing. You can't just say, yeah, live in the moment, cool, job done. It'll be a much shorter book if it was. Um, but let's try, you know, let's try to be more intentional. And although I struggle with it still, I I try. Like even last night was my mom's birthday. We were with the family, you know, nine o'clock. I'm looking at the time, I'm like, okay, the boys need to go to bed. I'm the guy who's like, you know, whereas my wife's a lot more better. She'll just sit and chat and and and I and I actually am jealous of that quality of just relax. So what if they go to bed half an hour later today? They'll be a bit tired tomorrow, maybe a bit grumpy, school runs a bit harder. Life's not going to end over it, you know. Let's just be in the moment and um and try and not just rush through everything, you know. It's um it's a very valid point and one I hope everyone can do better than I have at that.

SPEAKER_01 35:43

And I think everybody battles with it. Um, again, silently. Yeah, yeah. Because there's so many times, like you say, even a birthday party, I leave a birthday party or a function or whatever, and I'm like, geez, I wasn't even there. Yeah. I was there, but I wasn't even there.

SPEAKER_00 35:59

Yeah, yeah. You're in the moment for yourself. Yeah, there's so many moments. I'll be honest, right now I'm sitting here thinking flip. What time do I need to get to work? Is my phone going off? Like, are there messages?

SPEAKER_01 36:07

I'm gonna do it. I'm practicing.

SPEAKER_00 36:10

This is my I've turned it off. Check me, I've turned it off. I'm not even getting notifications on my watch. That's the truth, is like it's let's be real about it. So you you probably might think about things. You're like, what time do I need to end? What's next? Who else is my next guest? What else do we have to do the rest of the day? We're just constantly chasing the next thing. And um, I'm Jeff Jeff, I'm definitely trying to get better at it. Um, so yeah, part of that is to do sort of intentional practices like just being here and just enjoying this conversation. And if we go until 10, then we go until 10. You heard this. You can go until 10. And you how much time we've got my friends always tease me, I talk a lot, so you know.

SPEAKER_01 36:51

Between the two of us, we can be able to hold that. Men and women, do they experience anxiety differently?

SPEAKER_00 36:59

I wouldn't know. Um, I would imagine that they might. Um I can't I can't think vastly differently. I don't think it's about a gender thing, it's about the personality and the the wiring of the person, you know. Should like in terms of hormones and chemicals in the body, naturally men and women have a different genetic makeup. So uh the short answer would be yes, they must do. But probably um, and I must be careful how I say it, because it's not harder for men than it is for women. Like, I think there's a certain type of person. Uh, if I look at my wife again, she's an incredibly strong person. Like, I love her to bits. She's been the rock through all of this for me. She just quietly marches on. Her style is like push, push, push, push, push. And then eventually, once everything is relaxed, like being a teacher, she'll like work really hard in the term, and huge respect for teachers because people don't realize how hard that job is. Um, and you know, but then the holidays come and then her immune system crashes, she's more tired, suddenly her body lets go. Like, mine is more of a daily thing. I try and manage it, resolve it, manage it, resolve it. Where she'll just push, push, push, push, and then have this kind of immune system shut down or break down or you know, it gets a bit emotional or whatever. But I I think for me, uh, I I know for a fact that men are less comfortable speaking about it. Uh, and I'm generalizing, so that's why I say T's and C's apply. Like, don't hate on me. Like, I I just know in my own circles, that's been my experience. If I'm wrong, you know, call me out on it. But I just know men are less comfortable speaking about their feelings in general. There's also a lot of women who are not comfortable speaking about their feelings, so it's not a gender thing, but across the board, I think it's like we've got to hold things together. Men need to be strong, we need to be able to do that. Yeah, it's like almost bred, that's being bred in general. Yeah, and we're probably more proud. Um, not to say women aren't, but like men are just naturally like it's just how you know, we're supposed to be providers, survivors, strong, you know, capable. And so, you know, I I I I hope that being a man writing about these experiences and sharing some pretty deep lows. I mean, I share some writing that I wrote to myself that I'm not very proud of, but it makes for good content because that was the truth. And I've tried to share as much as as much of it as possible. So it's not to make people feel ashamed. Sure, that was hectic, or geez, this dude's crazy. Like that's how you feel in that moment, and I want people to see how I felt. So I share some of the stuff that I wrote to myself. And when I say wrote, I'd be somewhere on my phone and I would just start writing things now, more recently, with a view of okay, I'm gonna write what I'm feeling because I might use this in the book, and I'm just being honest about that. But historically, I would just make notes of what I was feeling because it was just like this is crazy, man. Um, but yeah, I think it's not a gender thing. I think it's not harder or easier for men or women, but I do think speaking about it comes more naturally to the ladies from my experience. But again, it's different. Um, and again, I can just refer to my wife. Like she she takes a bit of work to get her feelings out. Like she for me, I speak, and that's why I speak a lot. Like you can tell me how am I feeling. If I'm grumpy, you'll sit on my face and I'll tell you just a bad day today. She'll just say I'm fine. You know, that's the swear word. When she says I'm fine, then we're in trouble, you know. Like then I then I need to slowly start to unpack a code.

SPEAKER_01 40:19

It feels like we've got the same life.

SPEAKER_00 40:22

Maybe just a normal thing. To the guys out there, if she says she's fine, she's not fine.

SPEAKER_01 40:29

100%. So I'm gonna talk a little bit about pressure and burnout and rest. The hustle culture, do you think it's quietly destroyed people's mental health?

SPEAKER_00 40:43

Definitely, definitely. It's um listen, there's two sides to it. So I don't want to demonize the the hard work and the ambition and the success opportunities, but there's certainly a lot more pressure to be successful and to look the part and to drive the right car and to have a certain amount of money or live a certain lifestyle. Um, but I think it's just more how we manage, how we go about that. There's nothing wrong with chasing the nice things and getting in shape. I mean, especially exercise. And, you know, when you when you look good, you feel good, it helps your confidence. So I'm all for that. Um, it's just one component though, you know, because I know people who are in incredible shape and mentally they're a mess. Um, and then I know other people who aren't in as good shape and mentally they're just in a great space. They're just happy with themselves, they're content, they're doing their bit, they're healthy. Um so you know, it's just these these different components. But um, yeah, certainly burnout has been a real thing. Like I'm a very ambitious person. Um, I want to go 110%. I I struggle to just leave the office at a time because there's a time I should leave. I want to do as much as I can in that day and often catch myself still sitting there when the lights are off or when it's darker and it's seven o'clock at night. And I know I need to go be with my family. Um, that being said, my my work schedule is slightly different. I probably don't start as early as many people do. I know a lot of people train early in the morning, like 4 or 5 a.m., get to the office by 7, but they maybe leave at 4 or 5. Whereas my day starts around 9. I mean, being in retail, your day starts at 7 anyway. Because there's messages, there's calls, there's there's a lot of stuff to be done. So I think we're working a lot harder than we ever have. And um, we're more ambitious than we ever have. Um but it's it does come at a price. So you really just have to manage your approach and and I suppose just your time and your energy. You know, there's times where always have this theory of between work, family, and exercise, if you take like those three pillars as part of a typical person's life. I only believe you can ever do one of those things exceptionally well at a time. You can do them, you can do all of them, but I often find, like, even for me, writing this book was like, I don't know where that sits in the spectrum because it's not really a work, but it was a personal project. So that's my exercise took a bit of a back seat where I would usually be waking up going for a run or training. Now I needed an hour or two every morning to write. Because I work full-time. This project was done outside of office hours, and that's kind of how it has to stay. So, you know, that then I had to sacrifice time that I would usually run. So I was slightly less fit, probably got a little bit more podgy over that time, you know, not great, but it was for a period of time. So, you know, now fortunately, the there's a bit more time to do that. But you got to just kind of, it's almost like the that game where you're hitting the crocodiles and go, okay, you know, this one's coming out, you've got to juggle all these different things. So definitely um a lot more pressure on that and self-imposed pressure, I suppose. And if you're an ambitious person, probably set yourself up for more, you know, days of anxiety where you're just trying to do everything. You want to be a good father, a good husband, a good businessman, in my case, a good brand builder. You know, you want to look the part, you want to be fit, you want to do the events with your industry colleagues on the weekend, you know, whether it's Hyrux or Park Run or whatever it's gonna be. Um, and so that balance is, you know, that's that word everyone always talks about, you know, try to keep a balance. Like good luck to you, because it's not easy. But something has to give. Uh I just noticed some people might call me out on it. Like you can do all the things. What I always say to my boys is um you can do anything, but not everything. And what I mean by that is you can try anything, you can be successful at anything, but you kind of have to decide how you spend your energy. And there's periods of time where if I can see like I've been a bit absent with the family, I need to just try to get home a little bit earlier and and not work that extra hour or not go for that extra run. And so that balance is is tricky with with all the things we have to juggle. Um, but it's possible.

SPEAKER_01 44:32

Why do successful people or you spoke on people that look good with the muscles and stuff still feel like sometimes still feel empty inside?

SPEAKER_00 44:43

Good question. Um I think it's got to do with the purpose and your why of what you're doing things for, you know. Um it's why do I work so hard? Like I do work hard, like I'm proud to admit that, but it sometimes comes at a cost. Um I'm I I think you you you really have to do a lot of work on yourself and and understand your purpose of what you're doing in this life. Like I'm very fortunate to work for a business and a group of brands where we have we're very clear about who we are and what we do, and it's really just to help people be healthier, you know. That's that's the crux of it if I had to sum it up. Um, and and that gives you a reason to wake up every day, you know. And and I think then your reason for staying in shape, for me, it's mostly about protecting my mental health, if I'm honest. Like I'm not a competitive athlete. Like I said, I'm 43. You know, um, you know, there's certain events I've done, and and I write about the half iron man, which is a great sort of fitting end. I don't want to say end, but certainly a milestone in the mental health journey of okay, we can do hard things. But um I I just think people don't always know why they're doing what they're doing. I think if you're just doing it because everyone else is, you know, I think that's probably part of a problem with society. Uh and I've been guilty of that. Like, why do you need to be in shape? Well, because I mean an industry that I'm in, so you got to look the part. And um, you know, that's that's a feeling, it's a pressure I impose on myself. But for me, it's more about being healthy, and so I I try and preach about this balance message more and more. Um, just being realistic about not everything has to be perfect, just keep aspiring to be better. Like I exercise to be healthy and to protect my mind and to help cope with stress and anxiety at times. Um, but yeah, I think I think you just really have to certainly having family for me has been a grounding factor. Like, I that gives you a reason to why do you want to make money? Why do you want to be ambitious? Why do you want to work harder than someone else? So that when there are opportunities in in work, you at the front of that queue. I think there's a there's a real pressure on that I impose on myself of when there are opportunities, you want to be a good leader, you want to set a good example. Um and and so for me, that comes from not being famous or rich or having a specific title. Like I literally don't care what my title is, I love the work that I do. But a big part of why I work so hard is because if I can do better, I could potentially earn more in future, and that could help my family, you know, survive. Something as simple as that is is a big enough why. And then I think something deeper where it's like I I fundamentally believe that humans are here to serve one another. And and and if this is one way I can do it, you know, that's that's my attempt, you know, and and and I think that that's so important. That is powerful. I love that. Yeah, it's bumps. Humans are here to serve each other. I mean, even this podcast is a is an act of serving. You know, you've come from a place of pain of heart. Started for an act of serving. But you you have a why that someone else doesn't have, and and that's a big theme for me in life, not just in this book, is turning your adversity into an advantage. And I believe sometimes when you start to frame it that way and live it out and realize there's nothing you can do anyway, that's that's the big message. It's just like sometimes hard things are meant to happen because it gives you such a unique perspective and advantage of how you approach your day, how you approach life, how you appreciate just doing a park run in my instance. I love parkrun and I'm besotted with it. And those who know me know I speak about it lots. I've done, I think, 470. How many are you on? How many? 471. Yeah. So, and and that's you know, for me, it's a little 5k. Some of them have been walks with my son, some of them have been I've done one on crutches before. That was hard. But I loved it so much that that was the sense of community of people just trying to be a little bit better. And and that to me is a good definition of health, is just trying to be a little bit better, not perfect. Um, and I'm not even talking about how you look, just in how you perform. And what I love about Parkrun is that you can have an eight-year-old granny or grandpa out there and they can walk one or sometimes even run them. There's some some old runners there, and they sometimes faster than me. But then there's kids who are sore and tired, and even my own son, like my my younger son, Josh, is is taken to it as well with me, and and he's done 51 now as well. Oh, just he's eight. Okay. And I love that.

SPEAKER_01 49:01

Josh has done eight years old, he's done 51. Well done, Josh.

SPEAKER_00 49:05

Yes, and Luke's getting into it as well. He's the older one, he's more of a tech dude, so he loves tech and science and all these sort of things, and and I think that that's great for him. And I try and encourage them. Like, I don't want them to be, they don't have to be athletes, they must love their sport, they must move their bodies, like that's something I'm big on. So they do a lot of swimming. Um, Luke rides his bike, but he's more of a he likes to keep to himself, so he's not a big fan of team sports. Like I love football, I would love them to play football, but I've tried not to impose that pressure on them. You know, I don't want to live vicariously through them, they must be themselves. And I know I wasn't very sporty because of the reasons we spoke about before when I was a kid. Uh, that only came later in high school. And um, I want them to be themselves, but they must move their body because I know how important that is for their health.

SPEAKER_01 49:48

I'm trying to run my mind through your social media now. Arsenal supporter. Liverpool.

SPEAKER_00 49:53

I wish I wish I was Arsenal supporters. That's yeah, this has been a horrible one for us. So there's a lot I need the book is Arsenal supporters. Liverpool's fault. Yeah, so to all the non-Asenal supporters, you need this book next few months. They did pretty well this week. It's good to have different teams changing in a few. There's one in, I think, more of Africa and one in um in Cape Town. So I think it's a month.

SPEAKER_01 50:27

Guilt. When we rest, rest is important. Okay, I'm over there. Why do we feel so guilty when we rest? If it's for an exercise, if it's for whatever. I mean, right now I'm tapering for comrades, and I feel guilty. It feels like I'm not doing enough. I know why I need to do it. I've got coaches that tell me why I need to do it, but we feel guilty when we rest. Even if we take an afternoon nap because it's been a crazy Saturday or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 50:55

I think it's just the world we live in. It's modern society, it's peer pressure, it's being on our phone, seeing everyone else doing great things all the time because as we know, and it's so cliche, so I don't want to frame it in this way, but you only see people's best lives, their best training session. Um, and there's levels of guilt, right? I mean, you you're having guilt for resting and tapering before comrades. I've never done comrades, so there's a different level of guilt down there than doing it. You know, it's all relative. But I think we just wired that way. It's almost like there's a there's certainly more modern-day society for me is high pressure. It is always the next thing. Don't rest too much. Or if you do, just keep it short because you've got to now do the next thing. You know, you've got to do the podcast, you've got to go home, you've got to be a dad, you've got to be a husband, um, you've got to be a leader at work, you know, or an employee at work, whatever that might look like. Um, there's just it's just an always-on world, you know, and and there's many, I don't want to say that's always a bad thing. I think there's a lot of advantages of technology and social media and all these great tools, but they come at a price. And I think part of that price is this always-on mentality. And and I know I sound like an old man saying it, but like, you know, when we were younger, you know, my dad didn't have this thing where people could contact him. Like they had fax machines and telephones, and people could only reach him during office hours because although um, yeah, I mean, uh, like I said, like it's something I when I was young, and people used to say, Oh, when I was young, I think flip the soak's old. I'm saying that. So, but yeah, when I was younger, you know, my dad was available. Like the the most distracting thing was the TV, and even then had the limited options. You know, we had SABC one, two, and three. Yeah, that was it. If you were lucky, you had MNET and OpenTime, and and that's it. But um that he was available, and I could see that. Um you've got two hours to watch is their their sales pitch for you to sign up to MNET, you know. Um, but yeah, that that was just a different time, and I and I just I I missed that in in the world, in in that we didn't realize how good we had it. We didn't realize how you know, even being bored was was a luxury. It was like, and it is today, even so, you know, like when my when my younger son, especially, is like, dad, I'm bored. I said, good. And he never understands that. He's like, why can you say that? I'm like, because that's when you get creative, that's when you have to figure out, okay, I'm gonna go play with my cars, I'm gonna go play with a dog outside, I'm gonna go kick a ball, build a puzzle, whatever. You have to think for yourself. You know, you don't just have this thing that's thinking for you. So um, yeah, those were good times, but I just think the the world has changed a lot. Uh, we're less available, and I think because of that, you start to have guilt of now, I'm not always on. So it's actually like you can actually turn your phone off, you can turn your TV off, you know, um, you can just be present. And I think for those who haven't tried that in a while, um, sometimes when we go away, I try it and I'm like, it's just amazing. You're like, wow, this is such a cool feeling. Why don't I do this more often? But but again, talking to things I struggle with, that is something I battle with. Like, I what I battle with a lot, if I'm honest, is like if I take leave, I love going on leave in December because everyone's on leave. So now I feel like everyone's together. Yeah, I have the right that we're all taking a break. But if you go at the middle of a term or something like for some random week and you know business is still firing, hashtag anxiety achievements. I'm like, I'm like, flip, I shouldn't be doing this. I need to be part of the team, I need to be contributing. But um, it's something we all need to practice, you know, not having guilt and just being intentional. Be like, you know what, you allowed this. Allow yourself downtime. And especially if you're struggling mentally, because if you don't have it, you're not gonna recover, you're not gonna get better, and you're possibly gonna digress and go backwards. I mean, lack of sleep and lack of rest was part of my challenges. And then you get into this virtual circle or this repetitive cycle of you're not sleeping because you're anxious, and then you're tired, so then the anxiety comes up more, and then you get into the cycle. And I was in that cycle for a long time where you know, I'm waking up with anxious thoughts, and because you're not resting enough, you're getting anxiety, so it just you just stay in this loop. Um, so you need to slowly get off that ride and start making some intentional changes. So happiness.

SPEAKER_01 55:04

I believe happiness is your choice. It has to be, yeah. Do you think it's overrated as a like a life goal? Because everyone wants happiness, happiness, happiness.

SPEAKER_00 55:15

I wouldn't say it's overrated, it'd be amazing if we could be happy all the time. Um, I can't remember, I don't want to misquote him, but there was a a quote with one of these famous monks uh on I think Stephen Bartlett's Dire of a CEO, where he's like, he doesn't chase happiness, he's chasing peace. Yes. And I was so proud because that's something I wrote about in the book before I heard that, actually. Um, you know, a lot of ideas come from something you've heard from some anywhere, you know, like you might have stolen the idea somewhere anyway. So I don't want to own it, but that's been my experience. And it was so refreshing to hear someone else in that position say it because it's just so true. It's just you're chasing peace. And if everyone's like, well, what is peace? I can't answer that because it means different things to different people. For some people it could be financial freedom, for some people it could just be time out. But again, you know, we mentioned your brain wasn't designed to make you happy, it was designed to help you survive, and you can't always be happy. You you're gonna have, you know, with with how the body operates and how the mind operates and that whole central nervous system, you're never just gonna be happy. There's gonna be moments of sadness, anger, calm, neutral. You know, for me, emotionally, one of the things I write about is this concept of finding equ equilibrium, which is kind of just a neutral space. You don't have to be happy, sad, anxious, either or just try and get to like a level playing field of calm. And that feeling of calm and peace and equilibrium is is as wishy-washy as that sounds, is is the goal for me.

SPEAKER_01 56:40

Are we chasing distraction instead of meaning in our lives?

SPEAKER_00 56:46

Um possibly. Um it's different for everybody, I guess. I mean, I don't want to sound too diplomatic and not answer the question, but like I don't think we chase distraction. I think we live in a world of distraction. It's there, it's just whether you lean into that or not. Um sometimes distraction is a good thing from our own pain, from our own challenges, from our own stress, from our own work. Um, I think if you fulfilled, you probably chase it less intentionally. It it might there might be distractions, but the world is full of distractions. So I think trying to find what you're distracted with, like if exercise can be a distraction. When I was training for Half Iron Man, it was something in the back of my mind a lot to the point that I had to just really be focused at work because people are sharing training programs. We're rerunning on the weekend, are we doing a brick session? Are we doing this? Are we doing that? And you it gets so involved, that's a great distraction. So not all distractions are bad, but I think it's about focusing on the right ones.

SPEAKER_01 57:39

And that distraction brings meaning.

SPEAKER_00 57:40

Yeah, or try own your distraction, choose your own distraction. You know, if your distraction is how everyone else is doing in life, I don't think you'll ever be fulfilled because you're always just chasing. And I think that's the risk and something I still work on all the time. Um, and we can all just get better at it. But yeah, if you if you can, if you can create your own distractions, I mean you can only have so many distractions in a day. So if your distraction is your wife or your kids or a goal or a book, whatever it is, you know, the book for me was a distraction. It was a it was a coping mechanism, but it was a great thing of okay, well, there are only so many hours in the day. If two of them that I would have used thinking, meditating on my own or exercising, now I chose to use them to to write or to type. And so that was a great distraction. So it's not always a bad thing.

SPEAKER_01 58:26

Mental peace is it something you build or something you discover?

SPEAKER_00 58:33

These are good questions, man. You can see why this podcast is successful. Um to me, it's both. I mean, I can only answer from from my perspective. There's an element of building, but the discovery is is key. Um a good friend of mine and and really great speaker, John Sanaye, speaks about this process of learning and unlearning. And I think part of the unlearning is what we chase and and discovering this meaning and this calm and this this sense of clarity. Um, I think to just have clarity and purpose and peace is is the end goal. And um, and yeah, it is something you build, and and and well, it's certainly something you build because that's what I write about. It's how to build that that calm and build at least the coping tools to to achieve calm. Um but certainly for me it's been a discovery at the same time. I think as you build, you discover more, you know, but you have to be intentional about it. I don't think it's just it's not like you can be sedentary and do nothing, you'll discover nothing, you know. To go find the the the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, you've got to go work, you've got to get out there and find it, you know. So if you do nothing, you'll discover nothing. And if you do, if you're not intentional, you won't build anything. So I think it starts with that decision, like we said at the beginning of the chat, is I want to get better, I want to improve, I want that calm. As long as that desire is there, I think a scary place is when you lose that desire. And I think that's when it goes wrong. And when you hear of the tragic stories we hear where people have given up because they lose the purpose, they lose the desire, they lose the belief that this can get better. And so, as maybe broad and bland as this sounds, like just start with the decision of I I'm choosing that this will get better. Just make it a choice, even if you don't feel like it. Um it's certainly a building under discovery and an ongoing one. I'm not there. You know, this book is a work in progress. It's it's what I've discovered so far. Maybe there'll be another book. You know, I want people to share their learnings and open up about it and and give me tools as well so we can we can help each other, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:33

So just before we end this, I want to quickly touch on young people. We've got young kids, both of us. Especially teenagers. What would you say to teenagers growing up in today's world? Maybe they're going to university, maybe they're in my trick. You know, that that these anxieties start early on. What would you say to them, Brandon?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:56

I'd just say just love yourself. Love yourself a little bit more, you know. Um the world is not easy, it's even harder for young people who are still developing, trying to find their way, trying to be cool. Um I think I think just having a good sense of self-worth is probably certainly one of the things I would say. And and that's something that's within your control. It's um I have, and I'm sharing a lot with you guys, but I I have a thing that I tell my boys, even if I don't say the words, I always hold my fingers up, the fingers of three. And my my son, especially my older son, Luke, because he's just turned 13, so I've officially got a teenager in the house. Um, I just tell him every day, tell yourself three nice things about yourself. That's that's something that I just developed recently. I want them to start the day. Ellie and I take turns driving them to school. So some days she takes them, some days I do. Uh, but I always, if if they hear me, I'll say three nice things. Like I'll just say the words. And and if not, I gesture to him, I point to his head and I go like this, and he knows exactly what it means. Whether they do it or not, I don't know. Sometimes I'll make them do it in the car with me. The younger one's like, no, dad, no, no, no, you know, he doesn't want to do it. It's like he's a lot more direct, and I love his little explosive personality. But um Luke leans into it, he's like, Yeah, and then they'll say anything. Come in, I'm kind, I'm handsome, I'm whatever. It's just so much. I'm gonna steal that. Yeah, you must. I mean, it can be five, it can be one. Maybe start with one, one nice thing about yourself every day. And and I think that for me was an expression or way to teach them to just be kinder to themselves and just love yourself. Because if you love yourself, you will develop a different sense of self-worth, a different sense of confidence, a different presence when you enter a room that you're not the small, you know, not capable youngster that can't do anything and has to shy away. And I'm and I'm trying to also let them be who they are, you know. My oldest son is more reserved, he's a lot more quieter. But once you get to know him, he's actually got a great sense of humor and he's just so intelligent. Uh, the other one is louder in your face, but then also can completely hide behind me when you go greet a group of people, you know, he's not that front of mind person. Um, but yeah, I just I think I've I've seen a difference in them in just loving themselves a bit more. And so I would just say to to younger kids out there, just be kind to yourself, if anything. Just don't don't knock yourself, don't break yourself down. The world's tough enough as it is. There'll be people and things out there that'll do that for you. So, and if you can't love yourself, no one else will. I mean, you know yourself the most, the most intimately. So I think it starts with that, and it's probably advice that adults probably need as much, if not more, than the kids. They're just younger and and less developed and less experienced. So if they can start to build some habits that just teach self-love, self-care, and then act on that. If it's exercise, if it's something more intentional, if it if it's a bit of like breathing every day just to help you settle, working harder, doing your homework, you know, all the basics, like just things that give you a sense of purpose of okay, I've achieved something today. But it starts with just being kinder to yourself and to other people. Um social media is amazing, but we saw even this week and many times how people can just go at each other. And I'm just like, guys, like surely we can do this a bit better. It's just you know, in a world where you can be anything, be kind. And in South Africa, we say just be lacquer. That'd be a duas. I love that. What do you hope readers take away from this book? I'm I'm very clear on what I want from that book for people. Is just if you can just take one word, one sentence, one anecdote, one story that helps you choose tomorrow and just be a little bit better. That's that would be my dream. Like I have no ambition in terms of how many copies I sell, or it's this is not a money-making exercise. It's it's it's it's designed to be non-profit. Any proceeds that I make from this book, I can tell you hand on my heart, are going back into investing or buying more books to give away. So um I'd love to have lots of these out there. Obviously, it would be a great accolade for me, but the goal is genuinely to get it in the hands of people who need it the most. And obviously, there is a hard cost to the actual printing of a of a physical book. So, you know, if I can cover those through the sales that I make, um, and even, I mean, Tracy McDonald's been a phenomenal publisher. So shout out to her, Nicole, the editor, her daughter. They've they've taken me on as a first-time author with no credentials, no background, a little bit of influence, a little bit of business experience. So I really appreciate that. But the first thing she said to me is like, why do you want to write a book? And I just said, honestly, I just want to help people. I've been through some stuff. I want to share it. I want to help people. And so if we can get this book in as many hands as possible, I'd really love that. And obviously, there's been a great response initially. Um, I really appreciate it. I appreciate every single book sale, even if you don't buy it, but you see it and you send a picture of it in exclusive books to me, or you see it online. That response has been overwhelming. But I can't be more clear about this is not a project of fame or fortune, it's purely about using a life experience to share a story to help people. get a little bit better and and help us all cope and serve one another just more kindly and more intentionally.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:06

Where can we find this book? I found mine exclusive books Anton. Yes. Yeah it's where else where are they going to be?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:12

Are they still getting rolled out? They're still getting rolled out I know they they at the time of this recording there weren't any in Cape Town yet, but I know that'll be soon. So uh definitely exclusive books the physical copy it's also on take a lot uh and loot and then it's also on Apple Kindle sorry uh Amazon Kindle and Apple Books. So that's really exciting. And and again just huge kudos and credit to to Tracy McDonald and her team because they doing all that work and the heavy lifting of getting it out there. So really appreciative of that and yeah hope that that many people will go out there and buy it. And if not for you for someone you know who's battling I really do believe it will help some people and um and that's the goal.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:50

Guys makes a great gift makes a great gift. I agree to any 40th or 50th you're going to last question.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:02

Yeah what's something about the human mind that still fascinates you or scares you besides its complexity is how it's just got its own system. I mean this thing this thing controls us you know the the heart and mind are are just fascinating. The complexity and I know it's a very vague answer but the complexity of the mind is is fascinating to me and and just how different everybody can be and how so many different internal and external influences can shape that and and in turn how that then translates into how you live that out in a reality is is is really interesting to me. And um the more you speak to people um I think you start to understand why people are how they are good or bad you know successful people, unhappy people, angry people there's always a context you know and there's it's that complexity that nobody knows. And I suppose that sums up why it's the not always the hell there's a bit of heaven inside our heads too but obviously that wouldn't fit the topic at hand and and it's about unpacking that with everybody and and just you know there's no one size fits all approach. Everybody's different but your your brain is just an incredible thing. It's just I'm still learning um and I I plan to do a lot more learning. I want to write more books I want to write a sports edition around the psychology of of sport and coaches and players and athletes what they go through to put to perform I think there'll be a lot of lessons and learnings for people in business and in life just from that as well. So although there'll be a sports lens on it um so I'm already punting the sequel but um it's it's something that I started as my own journey but I started to then learn more about just other people and and and obviously I'm I love following successful people. I love lots of people a lot of my Instagram is filled with outside of people in industry it's mostly business people it's podcasters it's people who've achieved great things um and and I just love to understand what was different about them. Like how do they set themselves up to have that belief and you actually start to realize everybody's quite similar. A lot of them are just like you and I they just took one step more they took one more risk one more decision had some luck but if you don't if you don't take action you'll never ever know you know and I suppose that's what's what's cool is just to this process of leaning into something one step one foot in front of the other and um just chasing a version of greatness and peace whatever that means to you Brandon thank you thank you jo you one hell of an inspiration I've had an amazing morning guys get the book the Hull Inside Our Heads Kindle Amazon Apple exclusive books and if you want to if you can't find them reach out to me I'll make a plan we'll we'll figure that out together I haven't finished I'm almost finished but it's an amazing book get it where at