The Mindset of an Empire Builder: Roland Steyn

Success leaves clues, and in this episode of Endure Edge, we sit down with Roland Steyn, founder of MiFitness, to unpack the mindset behind building something that lasts.

From the tough early days and moments of uncertainty to scaling one of Africa’s leading fitness businesses and expanding into the UAE, Roland shares the lessons, decisions, and philosophies that shaped his journey.

This isn’t a conversation about gyms. It’s about vision, resilience, risk, and thinking bigger than your circumstances.

If you're building a business, chasing growth, or looking to level up your thinking, this episode is for you.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

We're back. You've been asking for this the mindset behind real business and no fluff. He is the founder of MyFitness. Rebelin Stein.

SPEAKER_02 0:11

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 0:12

Nice to have you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 0:14

Nice to see you and not uh be hitting each other. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:17

I'll tell you guys the story quick. Me and Romelund, I decided I want to try white-collar boxing, and Rebelind was the guy that I had to come up against. And let me tell you first, yes, what was it? Three seconds, even I was lying down there.

SPEAKER_02 0:32

But we went we went the distance. Yeah, yeah. But I felt it, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:35

I felt it for the next three weeks. Three rounds, three weeks. But it was fun. It was fun. It was it was very you know.

SPEAKER_02 0:43

I respect anyone that gets in the ring and is willing to take a punch. You know, that shows, you know, everyone talks a lot of men talk a big talk and this and that or whatever it is, but just stepping into the ring, whether it's a white collar, amateurs, whatever it is, just shows people have guts.

SPEAKER_00 0:58

And it's not easy to get into a ring, yeah. No, it's not easy. People think, ah, it's easy. Jeez, it's a different ball game, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:04

But it it teaches you something, boxing, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_00 1:07

Yeah, boxing teaches you a lot. Yeah. So I want you to get into the before my fitness quickly. Who was Roland Stein?

SPEAKER_02 1:16

So I grew up uh Rampock Ridge my whole life. I often say the streets of Ramprock Ridge, which is where we are right now. But I was more by Rampock High School. Um, I'm one of five children. I've got four older sisters and a twin sister. Umly boy, yeah. Youngest, I'm the youngest. Um my twin sister's 11 minutes older. Um, but yeah, very humble beginnings, you know. We weren't we weren't uh a well off family. Um we we lived off a veggie patch at home, um, much much of my younger years. Um so yeah, we never my mom used to make our clothes and stuff like that. So we've never had excess, we never had fancy holidays, we never had the luxuries and everything like that. So my history, you know, and I but you know, I'm still fortunate to have gone to school and I got an education and that kind of stuff. Um, so my parents did the best that they could. Um, my dad's much like me though. He was one that was always trying things, he was actually an inventor, he invented the safety hypodermic needles. So he he went down that road for many years, but it was a very, very tough road. Yeah um if you know Shimba Valley Lodge, that was originally his development. Um, and he pretty much lost everything in that, and it was very difficult for him to recover. So I was born into that, and unfortunately, um he was a thatcher and everything like that, and he and he built Shimber Valley Lodge with this idea of it becoming a high performance center for athletes. Uh, he had Richard Prentice and Tim Noakes as his partners, and uh then I think the recession hit in the in the early 80s, or about 80 85, 86, something like that. Um, and he just couldn't keep the loans going, so he lost everything through that process. And that was when I was born. So we were born into obviously into struggle. Yeah, so I've I know what it I've seen and felt like what it feels like to have nothing and for it to be taken away. Um, so you know, my upbringing is a little bit different to my kids now, where they you know their their future is a little bit more certain. Um but that mentality kind of I was just a survivor and a hustler, you know. Some people, if they remember it for me from school, I was always hustling and doing something, you know. The only guy that had a CD writer at school, so I was I had a playlist of music going around the school and used to make CDs for people and whatever it is. Um hopefully I don't get caught about that now. But yeah, I had to be quite industrious.

SPEAKER_00 3:42

But then I don't think people know what CDs are anymore.

SPEAKER_02 3:46

Um, but yeah, so and I was uh uh quite a keen sportsman, believe it or not. I was actually a very good long, quite a decent long distance runner. My twin sister, even better. Um I used to train at the world of running with um with um some top top trainers in those days. We were doing VO2 max gates analysis and everything like that. I just didn't have the the I really don't enjoy uh running. It's it's boring for me. I run a bit now, but again, short distances and stuff. But my race was the 1500 and 800. Um so yeah, I've always been, I was actually a very skinny, skinny person. My dad didn't allow me to do weights, he said it would start my growth. So my high house whole high school career playing rugby and everything like that, I never touched the weight. And it was only when I left school that I could start training. But my dad was always insistent that I had to get a degree. Didn't matter what it was, I had to get a degree. So as soon as I finished school, I did a year BCom. And then I really didn't enjoy that. Um, but I liked movies, so I went and studied filmmaking. So my my actual undergrad degree is audiovisual production, majoring in political science. Never went a day into that. I actually never even held a camera throughout my three-year degree because I missed the practical four-camera work, and they said, Well, then you're not allowed to use a camera. So I lost I lost all those marks, so I had to get like a 70 average just to pass. Um and then straight after that, I went into working in a um a publication called uh Performance Pro, which was a trade-only fitness magazine. So it was a coffee book publication basically aimed at the trade, and then they did a trade show. So I went straight into that selling advertising and space, uh, trade show space. And a lot of those customers of mine actually became my competitors or my competitors, some have gone out of business and stuff like that. Um, so that's how I started going into the industry, and I did it for six months, and then that that business unfortunately they closed that section of their business, so I got retrenched. But I used to just sit on the phones and I have to phone. You know, it's an open office, you just have to phone, cold, call, phone, phone, phone, phone. Um, but that's what got me into the industry. Um, and um and then I think yeah, 2009 I left that and I started working for another company in the industry, and within a year I started my fitness in 2020, yes, 24 years old.

SPEAKER_00 6:21

The entrepreneurial spirit at 24 years old, was it born out of necessity?

SPEAKER_02 6:27

Yes, survival, and it still is survival, you know. Um you know, Maslow's hierarchy of needs, you know, that's basically what my life was all about, you know, um was more surviving, buying a treadmill, selling it, making a profit, buying two treadmills, investing everything back into the business. Um, and that's what it's been like. There's no shortcuts, I've had no handouts, I've had no investors, I've had nothing. I've had partners in the past, um, you know, and partnerships don't work for me. And the reason why is because I put everything into my businesses. Generally, the partners that I have don't, and they don't take the same risk as I do. So I prefer now to do be 100%. So if I'm gonna do anything, I own it 100%, or I'll do collaborations and almost like joint ventures, like we've done at um Serena with Malfit and his kids. Um, Darren Dulliver, my landlord, me and him have had a relationship from he was my first ever landlord when I started the company. Sure. And you know, as he's obviously seen the business grow and stuff, and opportunities have uh arisen and we've done things together, but he owns his business, I own my business, and then we work together on some projects. Okay, um, and I've learned a lot from him also in terms of how to do business, what goes into it, because you know, these are he's a he's a big developer, um, and um you kind of see what it takes to to to in the I suppose the chutzpah you need for a business, you know. But it's 16 years, that's that's the latter parts where we've done um collaborations together, like we got my fitness gym in Northman's Corner, which is a shopping center he owns. I live in the estate that he developed. Um, so that's been a good, very good relationship for us. But leading up to that, I had my fitness, but then um when I was on honeymoon with my wife, um, she was working for a company, she didn't enjoy it, and then we just started putting our heads together on honeymoon, and we were like, okay, we need to do something else. So I just Googled trends um worldwide, and one of the trends then was this was in 2014, was customized wooden phone covers, wooden Mbamboo phone covers. So I was like, this let's let's try this.

SPEAKER_00 8:42

So this is all before MyFit. This is with Mafit.

SPEAKER_02 8:44

Okay, so it was more to get my wife to be independent and to be have her her own job, and then also um to give her something to do. You know, I had a you know, I I had a partner at that stage, so I was also looking for something that's my own thing.

SPEAKER_00 9:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 9:00

So I imported a laser machine and imported some covers and whatnot, and we started doing marketing on it. It was called Fat Panda in those days, and um it just took off. We got like 60,000 followers on Facebook like this, and we my wife has engraved thousands of covers. We got it to a point we were exporting um to Jägermeister overseas. Um, then there was a company called HOTE that kind of copied our idea, if you remember, may remember HOTE. They did wooden covers also, but that was after us. And um I'm a keen I was a keen woodworker at that stage, so I set up a whole woodwork shop at home, bought CNC routers, laser machines, and everything like that. And then we extended it to something bigger. So I would go in Pinterest and just look at different wooden products and stuff, and then I'd make it. I'd come home from work, I'd make uh handmake, wooden chopping boards, and that kind of stuff, basically the stock, and then my wife would engrave it. And we did that for uh a number of years, and it was it was quite lucrative. Um, but then we had children. I mean, we even went to manufacturing leather, tote bags, and all that kind of stuff, which um which was great. But then when we started having kids, my wife just couldn't do both. But I took all those machines and stuff like that, and that set the base for our manufacturing department in MyFitness. So we manufacture, when I manufacture, I went big into manufacturing where I had my own manufacturing plant with plasma cutters and everything like that, and uh to manufacture gym equipment, so we're not so reliant on importing, but then the electricity crisis rendered that impossible. You know, you've got a big plasma cutter running a piece of um steel, uh big piece of flat steel with 10,000 Rand, it cuts, it stops midway, and then you lose that, you know. And we just can't manufacture in South Africa at the same price with the same quality as what you can import it for. Okay, um, and that's the reality. But I spent a number of years um trying to do that and losing a lot of money. We do manufacture still, we do all our own upholstery, uh, we make our own jump boxes, but we've kept it quite simple.

SPEAKER_00 11:06

So people don't see that, people don't see the hard things. No, okay, they see the success. Okay, they see what's at Northland's Corner, this amazing showroom, which is now a gym as well. Yeah, they see the stuff on social media and all of that.

SPEAKER_02 11:20

Yeah, and to be honest, they don't see the the the behind the scenes stuff, you know. They don't see and only my wife sees like the raw parts of it, you know. And um, you know, you speak a lot about mental health and that kind of stuff. I'm not very vocal about it, but trust me, I've gone.

SPEAKER_00 11:35

I've You've had your battles.

SPEAKER_02 11:37

100%. But I've had my battles. I think there's two parts to mental health. You can be born with the with the deficiency, and you need medication to sort that out. Um, but also mental health and stress. I do a lot, I take a lot of risks. I'm gonna have a lot of stress, and then my mental health will be tested as a result. Yes. But I've taken some major steps in the last year or so to remove the triggers. And one of them is social media. Honestly, that's one of the things where I think a lot of young people get caught up in that, and it's not real. You know, posting on Instagram about a car that you don't have, um, you know, it's it's not real. And I think it's a superpower if you can if you can remove yourself from that and not be distracted by social media all the time. Because it's not real. People are editing everything with AI, you know, I won't mention names, but some people have created their own alternative reality. Yeah. We with the a girlfriend that doesn't exist, you know, and and then they're getting that the comments are the lights, and that keeps them happy. But in the real, but if you look at in the real world and what they're doing, it's not making them happy, it's not making them money. And I think that's where we we got it like a bit of a paradigm shift happening now. And I think a lot of people are actually starting to remove themselves from social media because you don't realize the distraction, you don't realize you're comparing yourself to other people and other things that aren't real. You could compare yourself to somebody that's edited their photos with a six pack, you know. Um, so I we still have our social media for my fitness and that kind of stuff. For me, um, I've got one friend on Facebook, and that's my wife, because I don't want to lose all the photos and the memories.

SPEAKER_00 13:21

For sure.

SPEAKER_02 13:21

Uh, but I don't need other forms of people to contact me and communicate with me and everything like that. And that has removed a lot of distractions from my life. You know, we you will you only know something about me now, really, by speaking to me and messaging me, you know. So I do forget people's birthdays and names and stuff like that. Um, but I do think a lot of people's mental health problems come from social media, you know? And like I said, twofold. One is like a uh either chemical imbalance or anything like that, and I understand then you should be medicated, you know. And then if it's not that, and it's the environment that you're in that is creating it, you need to remove yourself from that environment and people that create stress. And trust me, I've been I've been in the in in the in the trenches with with um you know, when you you just in general in business, I take so many risks where you could lose everything. And um only over time do you realize that you can almost get through everything. When it happens the first time, you're like, how am I gonna get through this? Then you get through it, and then the next thing happens. We've had COVID, we've had recessions, we've had um the currency uh fluctuations. When I started my business, we're under seven Rand to the euro, we're almost 20 Rand now.

SPEAKER_01 14:40

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 14:40

You know, I've got a company in uh in Dubai, and I'm trying to operate a company in the war, you know, during the war. You know, that's another challenge. Never did I think I'd be having to deal with so many challenges. Um but you just build that resilience, and I think that's the most important thing is building a resilience and not giving up, you know. Um and you know what, when you are in those tough times, I'm an advocator that go to the doctor, get some medication to to pull you through so you don't do something stupid. You know, because I think when people do, you know, talk of suicide and stuff like that, um there is moments. It's a weak moment. Yes, it's obviously a feeling that they had for a long period of time, but then it's a weak moment that they have that they do it. But you must just, in my opinion, accept you've got a problem, go to a doctor, speak to somebody about it, and work your way through it. You know?

SPEAKER_00 15:38

Yeah, you don't have to be alone.

SPEAKER_02 15:39

I don't, but I also don't think you need to you don't need to go and air it out on social media, and I think a lot of people uh speak a little bit too much about mental health on social media and I kind of um talk about their low points in their lives, and to a degree, if you're in the public eye and you speak like that, then then I'm telling you now you'll be less successful because people don't they they want to associate with success, they don't want to associate with problems and drama and everything like that. So, you know, I'm seeing a lot with the younger younger adults coming through, especially the males, they haven't earned their stripes. You know, you need to earn your stripes, go work for free if if even to learn. But all these guys, and you know, I don't want to offend anyone here that are into trading and crypto and everything like that. I've yet to see a young guy make millions of crypto. I have I know and and um trading. I know more people that have lost everything as a result. Correct. Because they're trying to get rich quick and not earn their stripes, and uh my route to where I am now is just hard work, you know, 16 years doing the same thing, trying to do different things, losing a lot of money. I've lost tens of millions of Rands with various things, you know. And um I'm still not immune to it. We've got the the kids' play park where when it rains, we earn zero. And um when there's a war in um Iran, we earn zero. And you have to build up resilience and and be agile. But what's taught me quite a lot with my business in Dubai is we've had to be agile in South Africa, you know? Um you know, nothing's predictable in South Africa, so you're kind of used to it. So we I'm gonna say we're cruising through it, but I'm I'm just going with it. But it is a big challenge. So yeah, I've lost my train of thought now.

SPEAKER_00 17:33

But thank you. You have painted the picture for this whole podcast, and I'm gonna be jumping from question to question now because there's there's things that are stuck into my head. So one of them is you've mentioned someone a few times in this little moment that you've chatted, which is your wife. Yes, I don't know her name. Uh Nicola. Nicola, you call her next. Next. You've mentioned Nicola a few times.

SPEAKER_02 17:59

Okay. And she's often no one really knows much about her or sees her. She's a beautiful woman. Um, she stands out, but she also doesn't like being in the limelight. You know, she doesn't want people to, she doesn't want to be in the limelight, she doesn't want people to to get involved in our business when I say our personal business and stuff like that, which I respect. Um, but she's been a massive supporter because, you know, a lot of people think what what is the secret to success and whatever. The reality is is no successful businessman that works eight hours a day. You know, everyone works eight hours a day. It's what you do in those eight hours that makes a difference. But even then, you have to sacrifice something in order to do something that somebody else isn't doing. So I've been very unbalanced since my wife met me. It's all been about work. And what I appreciate about her is she's she's fitted in, and I've done what is is needed to be done, but I'm not a balanced person. I believe that if you want balance, you have to be unbalanced first. You know, you look at Elon Musk and you look at what he's achieving in life. Is it because he's working eight hours a day? Do you think Donald Trump works eight hours a day? Um, and that's what people don't understand. This the the there's nothing more irritating than somebody says passive income, you know, da da da da. I can go on holiday, I can be on holiday, whatever it is. You shouldn't be on holiday 24-7, 365 days a year. You should be working.

SPEAKER_00 19:23

And even when you're on holiday, if you're a businessman, you're probably working in any way.

SPEAKER_02 19:27

Christmas Day. You remember Dubai doesn't celebrate uh uh Christmas and that kind of thing. So I work the whole year round. Um, but I've gotten used to it. It's just part of what I need to do to run a successful business. And um, so yeah, my my my life is dominated by work. I have to travel a lot for my businesses. Um, so my wife needs to take a lot of credit for the sacrifices that she's had to make, also. Um, but I have learned in the latter parts now that I do dedicate more time to it's not about time actually, it's about the quality of time. So what I do try now is when I spend time with my family, I'm present in the moment. But they're still the ones that take the biggest strain because they they have less of me. You know, they have they they honestly I come home from work six, hoppers six at night, we get dinner together and then go put the kids to sleep, go to bed. I mean, I only I I wake up, I probably go to bed 11, 12, wake up hoppers four in the morning. Four and a half hours of sleep. And it was Arnold Storchner that actually actually said that people sleep too much. Yeah, you don't need more than six hours of sleep. And um if you that's also another superpower, if you don't sleep so much and rest so much and you use your your time wisely, by seven o'clock in the morning, I've had a sauna, I've had an ice bath, I run 5K's, and I've boxed. By seven o'clock in the morning, every morning.

SPEAKER_00 20:54

Some people only waking up then. And that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_02 20:57

So when people say I don't have time to exercise, I don't have time either, but it's an important part of my life. Sets my day up, and then I I every minute of my day is accounted for until I close my eyes. Every single minute. I have no downtime whatsoever. Nothing. Zero. Um, and that is, and I'm not saying I'm a very successful person, but that's what is needed for me because I'm a very hands-on person in my businesses. You know, like the the the kids' play park, which we built, which is which is probably the biggest in Africa, that was me just flying up a drone, drawing things, and I was the site manager telling people where to put this, that, and whatever. And we built everything. We got a piece of land, but we built all the structures, all the buildings, everything. But that was that was done internally. We didn't outsource a single bit of work.

SPEAKER_00 21:46

Yeah, and I think what makes everything successful is that you're there, you're hands on.

SPEAKER_02 21:50

Yeah, but then also people can't talk. I mean, I can't swear on this, can I? You can. Yeah, because people can't people can't bullshit me because I've done everything. I've been an accountant, the driver, I've Been um the salesperson, um, I've built stuff, I've manufactured, and whatever it is, so I know a bit about everything. So um marketing also, I still run all our own all our own digital marketing campaigns, everything like that is is done through me because that's after I studied my undergrad when I started working, I did postgraduate and graduate uh uh in marketing, and then I did masters in digital marketing. So I learned like I've got a lot of skills in that. I don't outsource it to anybody, I've just used it within the companies. Um, so you know, so I've always uh thought that education is a is a is an important thing, but you have to apply that education to to a passion or business. Yeah, otherwise, like my my my filmmaking degree was pretty much useless for me. Yeah, um, and um, and that I that I if I can give any advice to youngsters is don't do a nothing degree. I actually don't think, and this is my opinion, you don't need to do a degree unless you become a lawyer, a doctor, um, or an accountant. Everything else, the way that everything's moving when it comes to marketing and stuff like that, by the time you've done the your degree, everything that you learnt is outdated. We were editing on tapes, tapes, um, back, you know, like digitizing tapes and stuff like that. What does it mean now? And I spent four years of my life learning how um filmmaking was established via from um from magic. What what it's not practical, you know. So, and the other thing is when you in university or even in high school, you're not taught entrepreneurship, you're not taught what pro what profit, loss, balance sheets, tax, VAT. Those are all things you have to learn on the job. And that's why I say young guys need to earn their stripes. You know, everybody, these young guys come out and they think they can be a general manager of a big company. You you know nothing. You you don't you haven't gone, you know. Sometimes when I say you know nothing, you only learn sometimes by making mistakes. Yeah, and you learn when you're learning the consequences and losing money. And um, you know, a young guy can look at what an older gentleman has in their 40s or whatever it is, and things like I want that now. And I have nothing against people aspiring for that, but I do think people need to be patient and they need to learn, you know, if they want a sustainable business over time, and um that takes time and effort.

SPEAKER_00 24:22

Gonna go back to Nikki, though.

SPEAKER_02 24:24

Yes, yes, please.

SPEAKER_00 24:26

How important is the right partner to have as a businessman that is building a business, and once the business is built and successful, how important is that support?

SPEAKER_02 24:38

I think it's everything, you know, and a gay partnership will break a man down, make their mental health even worse. Um, so I think I've got a bit of a unicorn in my life, to be honest. Um, because I'm not sometimes the easiest person to deal with. Um, you know, people can think I'm intense sometimes or whatever it is, but I don't have time to always be nice and give everybody time in whatever it is. So I'm to the point straightforward. If you speak to somebody, half of them will like me, half of them won't. Um, but you know, when I was younger, it was all about pleasing everybody else. Um, but you must remember after 16 years of doing this, you're getting you're getting approached by people and scamsters and stuff like that all day, every day, that you just can't entertain every conversation. That's part of the reason why I got off social media because you know, you you can't check all the messages that come through. And people get offended when you don't reply and whatever it is. So I have LinkedIn for for professional. Um, but again, LinkedIn is just dominated by people pitching you ideas.

SPEAKER_01 25:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:45

Um, I even had a situation where a recruiter added me on LinkedIn just to access my network, and then they and then they try to poach all my staff, you know? Um, so these are the types of challenges that you have where people think, okay, this is a successful business. I want to replicate it. Well, then go and replicate it, but do it under learn yourself, get your own staff, train them up yourself. But you find people trying to find the shortcuts, and they think taking my staff away is gonna give them the keys to success. And the reality is that you know, my fitness is also built on me going to trade shows, developing products, relationships with suppliers, it takes decades. Um doesn't happen overnight, and you'll see there's so many guys coming into the gym game, and then they think that they're gonna make a lot of money and that kind of thing. It's not the easiest.

SPEAKER_00 26:32

I'm gonna climb into that gym game because that is also changing, and I want your your views on that. But let's stick to the early days quickly. Was there a point where things weren't working at all?

SPEAKER_02 26:46

So um I spent uh a large number of the years um with a partner in my fitness, um, and it was a good partnership in the beginning, but you know, unfortunately, sometimes in partnerships, you know, you you you both always have to add value, but when you start in a partnership where somebody's just collecting a check every month and not adding value, you always see cracks start to form.

SPEAKER_00 27:10

And also in partnership the same as a relationship, I guess, as a in a marriage, it's the same thing. You've got to both add value or the cracks are gonna form.

SPEAKER_02 27:17

Yeah, both have to work at it. Um and um, you know, so I spent a large time like doing doing a lot all the work and having to share, share it all. And uh, unfortunately, you you have to realize that you know that money that's going to somebody else, they're not doing anything for it. Can it would if you start putting in the business, um you know, that will be better, better used. So, I mean, COVID happened, and then that's when um um I bought out my partner, um, and then that's when we actually experienced real growth because then I could operate the business the way I've I'm the one working in the business, I understand the business, and I could take the risks without having to get approval from a partner that's not involved in the business, you know? And um, and then that's when we probably doubled our revenue and we really grew quite rapidly, and it allowed me the freedom to open the gym, open um a business in Dubai, open my fan as kids, um, and that kind of stuff. If I had a partner still then, none of those things uh would have happened.

SPEAKER_00 28:25

Was there ever a stage during the partnership or even afterwards where you were financially stressed where you actually thought this is not gonna work, I'm gonna lose it all?

SPEAKER_02 28:35

Um I think just before COVID, I was willing to pretty much walk away and do some, do the gym stuff on my own. Okay. Start all over. Yeah, because it just it just, you know, I was at the the time where I was just like, you know what, like it's I can do this without you. I can do it, you know. The relationships that we have, I wouldn't say, you know, it's it's the company, but I formed a lot of the relationships um with our customers, our key customers, and that kind of stuff. I'm the one that sources all the products, develops all the products, finds the suppliers and stuff like that. I just eventually was like, you know what, it's time for me and I to think of me and my family. Um but anyways, COVID happened, and that created a, you know, it's all well and fine when you're making money to be in a partnership, but it's when you're not making money. And just before COVID, um, the industry was in a mess, you know, and it was in decline. And then COVID happened, and obviously there was a big uh big increase in demand for gym equipment um and whatnot. Um, but yeah, it was when we were making zero money, we were able to get a COVID loan, you know, because they were giving them out for cheap finance. And that COVID loan is what I used to buy at my partner and then to finance um our future growth. I mean, it wasn't a lot of financing, but it was a it was a couple of million, and that couple of million, we were able to really buy the right product at the right price, get it to market quickly, and we really we really did well in that in that period of time, which has set us up for the next uh the next number of years. Um so on the one side, something that is such like that that no one could predict, and that I thought I lost everything with COVID for three months making no income, paying salaries still, and everything like that, uh, with no with no end in sight, and I'm had to make a gamble. Do I shut this down and and um or do I do I go and risk everything to grow the business? So I took out that loan, personal securities and everything like that, um, and then allowed me to to pave the way forward. Most of the time. Just to interrupt you again, go for it. I do think over 16 years, you will have a number of times where you could lose everything. Yeah. You know, because I didn't grow up with money, I don't have an investor, so there's not like there's no one to save me, you know. So you you you can't you actually don't have the luxury of giving up.

SPEAKER_00 31:10

And over those 16 years, okay, the the and I've heard you talk about it. I've said I I saw one of your talks somewhere on the internet or something where you talk about a long-term play where most people chase fast growth. Okay, why do you believe in slow wins? Why is that important?

SPEAKER_02 31:29

Um I was one of the conferences I went to last year, um, where they says the A, it's the age of the elephant, slow and steady with a thick skin. And that wasn't my mentality, man. We were growing at a high in the early days, my fan is 100% a year, year on year growth. So I was always I wasn't chasing driving a Lamborghini, a Ferrari and stuff. I was just chasing growth, you know, successful business. But I live, I lived, I lived in the same house since throughout the it's only in 2022 I moved into an estate, but before that, um everything went back into the business, every last cent and more. I I promise you, I I have put myself into some some deep waters, investing um into the businesses and taking risks and whatever it is. Um so I've lost my the slow winds. So yes, now of after time and wisdom and learning, now it's just it's getting down to the basics, and that's what I've realized. Okay, you know, um it's getting to the basics um and not overcomplicating very simple things, you know. Um and that's what I've tried to bring my team back to in South Africa and all over in my other companies, also, is that let's get the basics right. Because the basics have never failed us. And it comes to marketing. What are the basics? We need to get somebody to our website to re generate the lead via the website that creates the the lead. Um the website needs to be on point. Um and a lot of the times people are like you have to come up with these crazy marketing campaigns and cool videos and stuff like that. Truth be told, it's very difficult to get um lots of shares and stuff like that on gym equipment. The reality is that we focus on the simple things. I need to if you're looking for gym equipment, you need to find my fitness, and that's what the basics is. So, what what's the first thing you do when you're looking for gym equipment? You'll go and type for tremendous treadmills for sale. You will find my fitness um if you type treadmills for sale, and that's the basics. You pay a lot of money for that. Um, you know, but I started when Google Ads just started, so that was in 2010. It was costing us one Rand a click, 90 cents a click. Take us back. Now you're spending 30, 40 Rand a click, 50 Rand a click. A budget that I had of 2,000 Rand a month is now 400,000, 500,000 Rand a month, you know, and that that takes time. Um again, I lost my train of thought. No, you you were talking about the slow pace. You're on the like I was never on a slow pace, and I never I and I'm still not on a slow pace. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 34:23

Um well it's the slow winds, not really the pace. The slow winds.

SPEAKER_02 34:26

Yeah, so we've never had like one big um massive deal that has changed the changed the we There's no big deals in South Africa, there's no big gyms opening besides maybe Virgin and Planet, they're the only ones rolling out. Um, but other than that, the independent gyms, you know, there's no massive mega gyms opening and stuff like that. So we sell lots of ones and twos. Every now and then, you know, we'll see what we we just did the the senior village at Stain City. So that's those those are small deals, small to big deals. But again, we sell lots of products, but it's to lots of customers. Yeah, so we've got over 60,000 active customers that buy from us. Um you know, people don't like almost every video that's posted on social media, like move gyms and stuff like that. You will see our products in the background, you know, whether it's the power core bumper plates um and so forth. Like we we we pretty much sell to almost every every gym in the country, something. I'm not saying we sell everything to them, but we do we do sell to the majority um of all the independent gyms. And you know, the customers that I I still remember our first customers I ever had, and they're still my customers to this day. Um, so yeah, I you know the other thing is I've tried to divorce myself. When I say divorce myself, I don't want to be the face of my fitness. So I've always tried to stay out of it. Um but I've realized that uh that that I am intertwined with my fitness. Whenever you, the word my fitness is mentioned, the name Roland is also mentioned. So I'm embracing that a little bit more. I'm not trying to hide or anything like that. Um, I am a big part of the business. Um, I you know, it's kind of an extension of who I am. Um, you know, so yeah, I've kind of changed that way of thinking recently where um where I'm not trying to hide um that I'm the owner of the company. Um I'm embracing it more than anything now. Um I don't really like being in the limelight, to be honest. You know, I don't like attention on me at all. Um I'm I've never had it growing up. Um so I don't particularly like the attention. You you on my birthday, my phone goes off. Uh it's a day that I don't enjoy. I don't like the intention on my birthday. Anyone that knows me, you will not get hold of me on my birthday. I don't acknowledge my birthday. Um, it's just a day that I ignore. And just because I don't like the attention.

SPEAKER_00 36:52

Yeah, it's very interesting that actually. So let's get onto that mindset a little bit. What mindset, what what part of the mind or what part of mindset do you have that makes other entrepreneurs uncomfortable, do you think?

SPEAKER_02 37:09

Um, I I don't I don't really know because I'm on my own, I'm on my own mission, you know. I don't really care what anybody else does. Um, I used to when I was younger, but um what you see is what you get. So um I like to associate myself with other successful people that are that are pushing hard, um, that I can learn from. Um, you know, it was uh last year at Dubai Active when I was exhibiting, uh I met up with um LB from USN. And I find that guy quite inspiring, to be honest, because that he's been doing this for so long and he's just as passionate about his business as it is the very first day that he had it. He just loves the brand, he lives the brand. Somewhat like me, I'm a much smaller company than his. But you think a guy like him and his status and stuff like that, because I just went up to him and I spoke to him, and we just hit it off. We became friends afterwards. Um, and I would suppose he's he's much like me, where he's he's never gonna stop until he's number one. You know, his goal is to be number one. My goal since the beginning is to be the non-number one supplier of gym equipment in Africa, which we are now. My goal for Dubai is to be the number one supplier of gym equipment in the Middle East. Yeah, and people tell me I can't, and whatever it is. Um, but I would say we're already the top five in the UAE at the moment.

SPEAKER_01 38:29

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 38:30

And before the war, we were on a very good trajectory also there, um, winning a lot of big clients over um companies like Emma, who's one of the biggest property developers in the world. And um, yeah, like that's that's my goal, and I'm not gonna stop until we are one of the market leaders there.

SPEAKER_00 38:50

Roland, why expanding the UAE? Let's talk about that a bit. What did you see?

SPEAKER_02 38:55

So 2022, I went there just to visit um Dubai Active, a trade show, and I looked around and looked at my potential competitors, and I'm like, wow, I think we can do a better job. And then I came back to South Africa, I met with um my team there, and I got some advice um with consultants. That's it, and I thought there would be a reason why we couldn't open. So I was looking for the reason. They made it very easy to start a business there and get um residency. So I'm a resident there in Dubai.

SPEAKER_01 39:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 39:27

Within a month, I had bank accounts opened, business opened. Um, and then I learned on the job. I can tell you a bit about mental health, and my wife will tell you. I arrived there in January of 2023 because like I'm like there now. I'm like, okay, I need to start this business. So my wife came with me to the trip, and um, and then it hit me. I'm I'm driving around this big city, and I'm like, I don't know where to start. I don't have a customer. I've got supplies, I don't have a customer, I don't have a warehouse, I don't have technicians, I don't have salespeople, I've got no one to run it. So the first day I was speaking, second day I stopped speaking, third day I was like, and I I had a nervous breakdown. Wow. Because I'd gone and sold my house and um I put everything into this Dubai business, but I had I had no idea I just had no idea how to start. And I was supposed to be there for two weeks, and you know what? I was just like got the first flood out then. I'm like, I'm done. I'm not doing this, it's just too much. Like, I'm like, what am I doing? I don't know what I'm doing here. This because Dubai is an education. You don't understand the pace that Dubai works at, nobody knows. Um, so it's a bit of I mean, I had a nervous breakdown, I think for a week I was just like a wreck. And then I had a game plan or whatever it is, and I reset and I went back with a game plan and um I got my head straight, and then then I set up the warehousing there, um, office space, da da da da da da, and all that kind of stuff. And then we started, but it wasn't uh, you know, you thought because all these people and stuff and what we've done in South Africa, that sales would just come, and it just didn't come. But then, you know, resilience, we got a couple of nice big deals there. Um, we set up a very big gym in Abu Dhabi, which is probably one of the biggest gyms in in the UAE, a male and female gym called RPM, not RPM South Africa, it's RPM gym in um in uh Abu Dhabi. Um, we did probably the biggest gym in Russell Hema, also, a ladies-only gym called Type S. And then recently we've got some nice um contracts with MR, where we're doing um Arabian ranches now. A lot of people know Arabian ranches, so we're doing the full fit out for Arabian ranches, so it's ticking over nicely, but we're we're on a very good trajectory before the Iran war, but now the challenge is is just you know, with missiles flying over your head and stuff like that, it's it it's everybody's kind of put all projects on hold, and there's a bit of a wait and see approach. You you you can't even import, it's so difficult to import anything. Sure. You know, we we used to import through the Jebel Ali port, which can handle 40 container, well, 40 container ships a day. Now it can only go to one port because Fujera is also being bombed, and that's called Focan, excuse my language. No, no, don't worry. But that can handle two containers a day. I mean, two container ships a day. And that's where pretty much all of the UAE supplies have to come through. So that that's created enormous challenges. Freight costs have gone up, exploded by almost 10 times the price. Um, but I know things will will resolve. And, you know, my what a lot of our the main brand that we sell is called Shua. We've been selling for 10 years, but I always knew that they were a sleeping giant, and I aligned myself with them. Um, I actually represented them a lot of the times at trade shows and different events and stuff like that for the Western markets. Um found a lot of distributors for them. So I've worked hard for them on an international scale, growing the brand. They're now number four in the world, and I believe they're going to be top three, top two. Um, they basically like the BYD of gym equipment. Um, a Chinese brand manufactured, high quality, good value, half the price of your tier one brands. And the reason why I went to the UAE also is because I knew that there was opportunity there, and I went to them and I said, can I have exclusivity for the UAE? And I said, sure. Because there's nothing happening there now. Now everybody wants the brand. Um, and um, but again, I suppose that's that's the long game that you have to have also is when you when you find an opportunity, you don't just wait for one or two big deals, you know. It's been three years now in Dubai, and you just have to keep on you know you have to spend a lot of money there.

SPEAKER_00 43:44

Consistency. So tell me South African entrepreneurs that want to expand and expand globally. Is it the same model locally, or do you have to Evolve going into the UAE before war. Before war now.

SPEAKER_02 44:04

Let's the same fundamental principles um apply. Profit, loss, managing cash flow, and that kind of stuff. But you have to learn the culture in each country. So Dubai, the UAE culture is very different. All the laws are very different. They still play with play with checks there. It's a big learning curve. And we were caught in check fraud in the beginning. I lost a million rand. But again, that was actually somebody just not following our normal processes. They let a million rands worth of equipment go out with checks. But when it was time to deliver, well, they collected the stock when we went to visit their offices, they were gone. So there's been a lot that I've had to learn there. In terms of their tax system, but also just their culture and the way they speak to you and how demanding they are. There's no eight or five in Dubai. You work, you just work. And I've taken South African staff over there, and for the first three months, they just yearn the headlights because it's just they're bombarded, you know. Um, it's just the the culture is completely different. And I think Dubai is probably the hardest place to do business because it's so expensive.

SPEAKER_01 45:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 45:23

Rent is so expensive, and that's the thing. The mindset you think you can get everything right because of South Africa. The rent there is ten times the price. Um, you can't comprehend some of the costs for things. So you may not be paying a lot of corporate tax and stuff, but you pay everywhere else. So, yeah Dubai is uh is one where there's a lot of opportunity, but it was also it was just there's so there's so much competition there. You don't make the same margins um in that market that you do in South Africa because competition is so fierce. But with again, I see the opportunity in Dubai now is that there was so much excess money there that people would spend money on technogre matrix and and really not and not really worry. Where now there's a lot of money that's left the country. So they're gonna start looking at the dollars and cents and that kind of stuff, and that already started happening um before this. Okay, but now more than ever, I think the bubble has burst in Dubai, and people now have to it's it's kind of leveled the playing fields because leases are gonna have to come down, property prices are gonna come down, but people have lost a lot of money and they're gonna start looking at their capex spend. And if they can buy a good quality product at half the price with superior warranties, that's where I see the opportunity and that's where we fit in.

SPEAKER_00 46:41

Well, they say when there's chaos, there's opportunity, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:44

There is, and um, that's what South Africa's taught us because that's where if you're agile and nimble, um, like we are in South Africa, it gets it it's good education for the rest of the world. But people shouldn't jump into another country and just think it's gonna succeed. Um you know, especially if you're going there and you and you're importing your own stuff. They don't know nothing either. So yeah, but again, it's the same mentality as I just have a crack. You know, I don't think too much, I don't think too far ahead. Um, I just did it, you know, and um I still haven't reaped the benefits fully yet because because of the war, especially now. Um, but I'm not gonna give up. I could easily mothball it and be like, no, you know, I'm uh I don't have the the energy for this. Because I still uh during the war I have to put in money every month there.

SPEAKER_01 47:31

I can imagine.

SPEAKER_02 47:33

You're talking about big money every month to keep it going. Um and um, you know, a large portion of our business is to the hospitality industry, and that hospitality industry is now 90%.

SPEAKER_00 47:44

Yeah, completely dead before the war. Obviously, we're talking before the war. If you had to choose building South Africa or Dubai, which one do we pick?

SPEAKER_02 47:54

Uh, in terms of business, um, we kind of reached our threshold in South Africa. We we we had all this aggressive growth, but we we've kind of I know we can do better and I know we can still improve, but the growth prospects in South Africa are nominal growth, single-digit growth year and yeah, but also negative growth. There could be possibility of negative growth in this country because we've kind of reached our ceiling. Yes. Um so Dubai was an open market for us. We you know, we're starting at zero, but also the the every single apartment block there, every single hotel has a gym. So the there was a lot, the scope is much bigger. Okay. And I projected that within two years we were going to be bigger than our South African operation. Um, right now we were we're sitting at probably about in terms of revenue, we do about 25% of what we do in South Africa in in the Middle East now. Um, which shows you, and that's within a couple of years, we've built a business that does that's taken me in South Africa 16 years. We've got into 25-30% of that now. But I was projecting by the end of the year we'd be almost on par, with actually less staff, less costs, less showrooms, and everything like and everything like that. So my business model there is very different to South Africa. We outsource technicians. Uh well, we've got our own technicians, but there most companies, even the biggest ones in the gym game, they outsource the the backup service to another company. Okay. You outsource your warehousing. Um but remember there, warehousing, you know, I've been I've done stock tax in warehouses at 50 degrees in summer. You know, so there everything's different there. You know, you have to you have to prepare yourself for EID holidays, for the heat that comes with it. Um man, I've got there's so many stories. Like in South Africa as an example, one of the one of one story we've got is is in COVID, we were we're delivering to train station gym in a convoy. And we had a heist on the highway. Machine guns, everything like that. They kidnapped my staff, stole the vehicle for the load. And um, these are the challenges that you have in South Africa that you don't have in any other country. Yeah. Um, where you're you're a target. There's always somebody or some there's always somebody trying to scam or steal from us every single day. Every single day, somebody's trying to steal. So you had more predictability in the UAE where every day you don't the robots are working every day. It's very consistent and predictable until it's not. So right now, South Africa is a more attractive business. Yeah. Um, because the war is something that has affected everybody. But in no one's control.

SPEAKER_00 50:34

No, well, no one's yours, unfortunately. And yeah, as a business person.

SPEAKER_02 50:38

So you just have to you just have to wait it out.

SPEAKER_00 50:40

Suck it up almost. I don't like those two words, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:43

But I get I suppose if you don't have if you haven't had the school fees before, you're you don't know how to suck up. Yeah. And right now, I I've just every time you come up with a challenge and stuff, you just raise your your I think I suppose your mental fortitude just gets higher and higher and higher.

SPEAKER_00 50:59

Let's talk the future of fitness because we're running out of time. Where's for where's fitness actually going? Is the gym still the main business?

SPEAKER_02 51:07

Gym equipment's the main business, and that's getting down to like I'm not going into any other um industries now, anything like that. I'm focusing on my business. You know, I've got a trampoline park, um, we've got the the kids' play parks and venues, but that's not where my passion lies. My passion still loves uh lies in gym equipment. I love I genuinely just love gym equipment, I love um the industry, I love the people in the industry, I love where the industry's taken me. I've traveled all over the world, met amazing people, and I've learned so much.

SPEAKER_00 51:38

Um I've noticed though gyms are gyms themselves are changing into more like experience hubs rather than training spaces.

SPEAKER_02 51:47

Yeah, so that's virgin active though, you know? So that's more virgin active that has created that um those training spaces um like that. I I don't I don't believe in that concept. I think so.

SPEAKER_00 51:58

You don't think the traditional gym model is dying?

SPEAKER_02 52:01

No, not at all. Um, so where I think what's happening, and I was in New York for uh for the Athletec Innovation Summit, and a lot of the byhackers were speaking there. Gary Brecker, Mark Lippmann who's an ex-South African um doctor, but a celebrity doctor. And before anyone was even talking about peptides, they spoke about peptides and everything like that. Gary Brecker spoke about um no one's born with a disease, they're born with deficiencies. So I think more and more what we're seeing now, and it depends on gyms, whether whether they're gonna make that paradigm shift or not, is are you gonna be part of that journey now towards peptides and stuff because it's going there, or are you gonna um say no to that and not be part of it? The reality is is you've got an audience of people that go to gym so they can look better and healthier, but you're not giving them the rest of the services like hormone therapy. You know, every guy that's trying to get fit now is looking, they don't know where to where to speak to, who to get stuff from, and then they end up going to the black market for stuff. So, what we've done with my fitness gym is created a concept. We've got the MyFinna's Wellness Hub, we've got biokineticists, we've got physios there, dietitians, but we've also got uh the reset clinic there that do IV drops and that kind of stuff. They also do your blood work, they will do um give you advice on hormonal therapy and that kind of thing, peptide use and whatever it is. And I think peptides under the right conditions with the right um dosages and the right um advice, and um I'll suppose somebody tracking your journey. Um honestly there's nothing better. These doctors are saying it also, you know, back then, and I came and did a talk last year about it, um, when people weren't even saying the word peptides. And I said, mark my words, watch this space and his gyms, and they're coming on to now. You're gonna have to make the decision if you're gonna if you're gonna facilitate it or you're not. Okay. And um I see, I see, I see traditional gyms have always stood the test of time. Um, so I still think creating an environment there where people can have their coffees and whatever it is and that kind of stuff, but I don't think people need to be staying at the gym all day. Um, you don't need to create a co-working space for a person at the gym, I don't believe. And um, you know, I actually um respect the move business model quite well, move gyms. We've got a very close relationship with them, they focus on the basics. You know, there was all this group X and this and that, and functional training, all these classes. Um, the reality is that 80% of your customer base just go to gym. They use the treadmill and they just want cool spaces to train. So if you look at what we've done, we've created a showroom in Move Melrose where we've put all our cool stuff and equipment in there, and um it's created such a nice new place for people to train and a private, and it's a place for us to also showcase our new equipment. Um so I don't think, yeah, I don't think that that that concept of um basically having it a resort for people to train it is necessary because with that you pay. Now, you're looking at uh Virgin Active and Planet, the bulk of their members are are Vitality members, um you know, so and that's subsidized.

SPEAKER_01 55:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:17

We deal mainly with independent gyms, they're not subsidized, so they they can't afford, they have to charge 500, 600 Rand a month, and therefore they can't afford to give people all those additional extras and whatever it is. And the biggest, the independent gyms in South Africa are the ones that actually have the most members. Okay, but they're the ones that are not looked after when it comes to these rewards programs.

SPEAKER_00 55:41

So the independent gyms are they're the ones that offer the community, the the that community feeling because you're part of someone and something, you know everyone.

SPEAKER_02 55:49

So, yeah, FITSA, which represents all the independent gyms, they've actually got the biggest reach out of anyone because you only have a million, I don't know how many a million, two million members or people on Vitality. What about the rest of the population? And that's where our business rides on, basically, is we sell to real people, real normal independent gyms, not gyms that are subsidized. And that's why we've done well, I think, because we we provide an affordable, high-quality product for independent gyms, um, and that's where our growth has come.

SPEAKER_00 56:24

What's the fitness industry gonna look like in 10 years' time?

SPEAKER_02 56:30

Um for the next short term, it's um every gym should have a sauna. That's a big part for me. I believe in that sauna. Um, ice baths you could have, but it's also a one-person use thing. Um, I'm on I'm working on my own um my own thing about ice plunge showers. It's something that I've tested in Dubai. For me, that's that's better than an ice bath. Just I use an ice bath for the just the contrast therapy, just that feeling, it wakes me up. I don't actually sit in it for five minutes. Um, and most people, to be honest, is not are not gonna sit in an ice bath for five minutes. So I do think recovery is a big part. We're gonna see more saunas going into gyms, infrared saunas, and that kind of stuff, because that's obviously new technology. Um, but I don't think you're gonna see the fads come in, you're gonna see higher rocks come, you're gonna see higher rocks go. Um, and that's no offense to higher rocks. I've seen it with I've seen it with CrossFit. They're gonna find something else, there'll be another um thing, but then uh when the time comes, the gyms need to adapt. So don't get too close to a training methodology like a CrossFit. Don't get too too obsessed with it that you don't move on when it's not popular anymore. Um, I think the CrossFit gyms, as soon as HyRox started gaining popularity, they should have they should have shifted instead of trying to be um to it's it's what your members want, to be honest. So I think the next 10 years of where the fitness fitness industry goes in 10 years is what your members want. And you have to listen to your members. And but it will it tried and tested things, treadmills, bikes, elliptical, well, not so much ellipticals anymore, stair climbers, strength training, plate-loaded gym equipment, which is still hasn't become too popular in South Africa yet. Everywhere else in the world, it's all about plate-loaded machines for strength. Um, but I don't see it changing too much. The only thing that will change is the class concepts. There will be another thing that's uh focused around boxing. You know, Sweat 1000 was big at one stage. Um, but people want something new and fresh or different. So Higrox has got its time now, but I do believe there'll be the next thing. And those same Higrox gyms should probably not make the mistake that that the CrossFit gyms have. If they're wanting to have a sustainable business, they have to move to where they where their members are going. Um but yeah, I do think we're gonna see a closer link between um longevity, wellness, and recovery in gyms because right now they've separated themselves. You've got those members coming in, they want to look good. So don't send them out into the wilderness to try to find peptides, to find, you know, men, I believe, after a certain age, should should, if they if they go on TRT. You know, that's probably one of the things that guys ignoring and stuff, but that's life-changing for a man. You think it makes you more aggressive together? If you're doing if you're doing TRT with a doctor prescribed and the under the right conditions, you won't have side effects, and your mental health will be better. You think you're gonna get more aggressive? No, those are oaks that aren't trained and whatever it is and not the testosterone that makes you aggressive. No, no, no. But listen, the the big the hard stuff will. Yeah, but TRT, most men after 30, 35 years old, their testosterone declines. Mine was very bad at one stage, you know? And stress, stress is directly linked to that. Your testosterone levels will drop with stress. Um, so I do think that gyms need to make the decision and facilitate that and and offer, they don't have to do it themselves, but maybe have like a wellness hub that we have where we rent it out to people. But then you're allowing people to get everything that they want done in one place instead of grounding to four ways and getting Botox done there or getting a treatment down there. And I think there's been a division now where gyms don't want to operate in that space, but I think they're gonna be forced to.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:22

I want to quickly get into some philosophy and truth. You spoke about hard work. Do most people actually want success or do they just want the idea, or do or is it just the idea of it?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:38

The younger generation now just want to be rich. Um not not and and I find that people will know the young the young guys with me, if you act like can't say the word, but if you don't act like a man, you know, even if you in your early twenties and stuff and you complain about your lunch break or whatever it is, I I wouldn't say I lose respect for you, but I'll call you out. Yeah, you know, and I think I think men have to start acting more like men, making those hard decisions.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:09

I'll say if you stop being pussies. Yes, yes, that's the word to make you feel comfortable.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:15

Just stop acting like a pussy. Essentially, it's not attractive to a woman, it's not attractive to a woman. You're not gonna and and that's the problem that I'm facing now is that guys come out of university, they offer, not even university, out of school, they offered a job. Now I want to learn trading. I want because I want to get rich quick, they want to drive the Lamborghinis and the Ferraris and whatever it is. Anyone that I've seen that got the quick money has done something dodgy, and then they lose it all, anyways.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:41

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:42

It uh it takes time. Real success and wealth is built up over time.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:47

What's the ho what's the harsh truth about business that no one wants to admit? It's ruthless.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:54

No one cares. No one cares about you. Like that's the truth. You can go to people with your baggage and your problems, no one cares. In fact, you'll be less successful. You can have a bad day, don't show it. You can sh you can you can lose money, don't show it. You can be in a bad space, don't show it. Because the minute you show that and you show weakness, people will prey on that. You know? Um, so as a man you you you just gotta you kind of have to bra uh put a brave face on and act like everything's okay. And I know that's the hardest part when people talk about mental health and stuff like that. But the reality is it's it's the wild out there, you know? You gotta survive and unfortunately in the business world the week will get eaten up.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:42

Everything disappeared for you tomorrow. What's your first move?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:46

What do you mean I lost everything? I actually don't think I'll lose everything. I'll never let that happen. So I'm not even gonna think about that. I don't have a backup plan. And a lot of people say, yeah, just in case for a rainy day, whatever it is, is I don't I'm not saving for a rainy day. I need to make sure everything that I do works. Right now. So I'm not I don't I'm not thinking on that. I haven't even put a single thought into that.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:11

I love that that it's so powerful.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:13

Yeah, I'm not I'm it's not an option. Because I want to give my family the best life possible. I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna I'll make a plan, I'll figure it out. Always.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:24

Last question what is Roland's long-term game?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:28

Um, I want to move to like a secluded island and just have peace. You know, um I've got a little place in South Broom, one of the most beautiful places on earth.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:42

I love South Broome.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:43

And and if I could move there tomorrow with my family, I would do it in a heartbeat and live a simple life. You know? Um, yes, of course, you want the creature compets and everything like that. I still want my businesses. I just I can live in a place like that and feel peace. I get the rush, but when I travel to Dubai and I'm doing business and stuff, that will never change. But I just the ocean, like for me, my my where I want to be in 10 years is I want to be, I wanna, I wanna, yeah, I wanna I want to just have that feeling of peace. So wherever I live, I want to feel peace. I feel that now. Aviento estate where I live is a beautiful place. Live on a river, running trails, it's it's it's an incredible place to live. But then you leave there and you drive through the areas and then the robots aren't working and stuff like that. By the time you get to work, so many frustrations, you've lost your temper and that kind of stuff. You know, I would prefer to just live by the ocean, still get my work done, still work as hard as normal. Um, but I just I just want to I want to get rid of um the triggers if they make sense, the triggers that that affect your mental health. Um, you know, when I'm down there and I'm with my family there and whatever it is, I just think clearly and I can come up with solutions and stuff. But South Africa uh Jobic sometimes it's just chaos all around you all the time.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:05

Um Roland, I'm gonna ask you to come back. Yeah, we're gonna do an episode two because I feel there's so much we didn't get to um because of the background and the story that needs to be understood. Now we've got that, and we need to get into the other things. You've told us what it takes, not just to start, you've told us what it what it takes to endure the resilience, the the consistency. So we need to get behind that.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:33

Well, the last point I have to say is that to get where I am now, I had to change the person I was. I was an introvert, very shy, did everything to please everybody else, you know, and the reality of the situation is that that is not the characteristics of a successful businessman. I've had to become something different, not because of who of what comes naturally, it's more that's what's required. And you have to be prepared to fight, you have to be prepared to stand up for yourself, um, and you have to be prepared to make the hard decisions, you know. That's why half some people will like me, some people won't like me. And that's just how it is. If you're gonna please everybody, you you're not doing something right. We're out.