Laughs without Lager

Meg's Sober Summit interview

• Ali and Meg

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Have you ever wondered if those small, seemingly insignificant moments from your past might be driving your drinking habits today? In this powerful conversation with Meg, we uncover the hidden connections between what she calls "invisible trauma" and alcohol dependency.

Meg's journey began with a single trembling moment in front of her high school class that triggered an anxiety disorder. When she discovered at 18 that alcohol stopped her shaking hands, it became her medicine—a pattern that eventually led to isolating and drinking over two bottles of wine nightly. What makes her story particularly compelling is how she traces this dependency back to core wounds and limiting beliefs formed in childhood.

Throughout our discussion, Meg breaks down the difference between the dramatic traumas we typically recognise and the subtle experiences that quietly shape our self-perception. She explains how these experiences create "core wounds"—fundamental negative beliefs about ourselves that drive behaviors like excessive drinking. For Megan, beliefs like "I'm stupid" and "I'm unlovable" lurked beneath her drinking habits for decades.

The most hopeful aspect of our conversation reveals what healing looks like. Meg describes her journey to developing deeper self-trust, responding rather than reacting to triggers, and establishing a calmer baseline from which to navigate life's challenges. She offers practical suggestions for listeners questioning their relationship with alcohol, emphasizing that curiosity is the perfect first step.

Whether you identify with drinking to manage anxiety, loneliness, or simple boredom, this episode will help you look beneath the surface to understand what might really be driving those habits. Connect with Meg through her website, podcast, or book club to continue exploring how healing trauma can transform your relationship with alcohol and yourself.

Contact Us:

https://www.meganwebb.com.au/podcast-1


Ali

insta: https://www.instagram.com/idontdrinkfullstop/


Meg

website: https://www.meganwebb.com.au/

insta: https://www.instagram.com/meganwebbcoaching/

bookclub: https://www.alcoholfreedom.com.au/unwinedbookclub

Connect AF: https://www.elizaparkinson.com/groupcoaching

Speaker 1:

Hey everyone, it's Meg here and I wanted to share a recording I did recently with Maggie Clausens, who runs the Sober Summit. So she interviewed me and I wanted to share it with our Loves Without Lager audience to let you know a little more about me and what I do and inform you a bit more on trauma and what it's all about and how it relates to drinking. I hope you enjoy it.

Speaker 2:

Hi and welcome to the Sober Summit. I'm your host, maggie Claussens, and I'm here with Megan Webb, all the way from Australia. She's the host of Not Drinking Alcohol Today podcast and she's also an alcohol recovery and somatic trauma-informed coach, and today we're going to be talking about trauma, inner beliefs and the reasons that we drink. Welcome to the Sober Summit, megan Hi.

Speaker 1:

Maggie, thank you so much for having me. I'm so happy to be here.

Speaker 2:

I'm so excited. I was like I can't wait to listen to her talk with her Australian accent. I'm so excited to get into this topic because I think, as we learn more about mental health, we hear more that term trauma, more and more today, and so I'm excited to talk about that. But before we do, would you mind sharing a bit about yourself and how you got to where you are today?

Speaker 1:

Oh, I'd love to. Yes, yes, so I did not have my first drink till I was 18. And from all the people I've met on this journey, that's pretty late. I wasn't interested. My mum will even remind me that I did not like the thought of alcohol when I was younger than that, so I didn't have the teenage years going out drinking. I did. However, what I've remembered, since I've sort of been on this journey, is that I did have a very, very big like of a TV show, and I can see that that was like an obsession. So I did have something in my younger teenage years where I did certainly numb out. Now that ended when I was about 17, 18, and then alcohol came on the scene.

Speaker 1:

So when I was 17, something happened to me doesn't sound major and I will be talking about trauma, the more invisible type that is not so big like we often think of trauma and what happened was I stood up in front of my class when I was 17. I always loved speaking in front of the class and I had something we had something called daily notices. So I got up with my paper, I went to speak and the paper shook and from that second I developed an anxiety disorder where I couldn't speak in front of people, I couldn't eat in front of people and I couldn't drink in front of people. It just it was. Anytime anyone was looking at me I'd shake. So it was very physical and as a teenager of that age that's a really hard thing to deal with and I spent a lot of time hiding it.

Speaker 1:

Now, a year later, I had my first drink. I was, I'd just left school, we were on a end of year, like some of my friends, and I were camping, and someone gave me a straight cup of gin bean. I did. I was a binge drinker from the word go. I didn't just have a sip, you know, I drank probably equivalent to half a glass, you know, a normal size glass, so quite a lot for someone that had never had a sip. And I got drunk and what I realized was I didn't shake Once I'd had it. Oh my gosh, I was a different person. I had this confidence and from that day it became my medicine to stop me shaking in situations.

Speaker 1:

So from 18, I think my first, that first drink was a binge. I binge drank. After that I don't even recall never being a binge drinker, so I would go out on weekends. I didn't drink in the week. I went out on my set days that we had nightclubs open and things. So it was a Wednesday, thursday, friday or Saturday, sometimes two, three nights, and I binge drank every time, but so did all my friends. We all got drunk.

Speaker 1:

Drinks were cheap and it helped me be able to socialize. So as long as I had had a drink I could eat and drink in front of people, I could meet people. So it became something I relied on. And if I turned up somewhere to a social event and I hadn't had a drink, that was a challenge because I had to somehow get that first drink in without anyone seeing, because I'd shake. So I would maybe go off to the side or I ended up often having a drink before I left home.

Speaker 1:

But in some situations I can still remember you might walk into an event and they're holding a platter and you know a tray and there's a drink on it or the platter of food and I couldn't take them because I'd shake. So I sometimes remember saying to the waiter or waitress can you put my drink down on that table? And I'm sure they must have wondered why I couldn't just hold it, but I'd make an excuse like can you just put it down? I had to come up with an excuse so I didn't have to hold it and then I'd kind of take it away quietly and drink it. So it was debilitating not being able to hold things in front of people and it doesn't sound major to a lot of people, but it changed everything for me and I was outgoing. Then I kept being outgoing, so it wasn't like I was shy and it was expected. I've had people since say to me I had no idea, you went through that no idea because I was still a clown, you know class clown.

Speaker 1:

I was still loud, I still was that person, but it was an internal secret thing. I went through. I did get some therapy and throughout, from 17 up until I stopped drinking at 45 was the first time I took a break. I'm now 51. Throughout that whole time I tried everything Lots of self-help, saw psychologists, I did courses, but the thing I kept doing was drinking.

Speaker 1:

So I might go two steps forward and get a bit of confidence back. But then when I drank, what I didn't know at the time is that actually made my anxiety worse. So the thing I was using to self-medicate ultimately became the thing that made it a lot worse. So in my mid-20s, when I was 24, I had my first daughter and that was great because I didn't drink in pregnancy. I found that very easy because at that age I was just a social drinker. So that was good and helped me realize that I could get a bit on top of my confidence issues. But then, once she was about one, I went back into the social scene of drinking again, and that happened with my next two pregnancies. They were spaced out over 10 years, so I sort of had a year off here and there. But as each child came I got back on the drinking quite a lot faster, and part of that was because, well, I've got another kid, I need a break. You know, mummy, wine culture. I got quite into, into that and it always seemed that I wasn't the only one. So it never, I think in the back of my mind I always knew I drank too much. I think that was always there. A lot of people don't have that thought, but I think I had that from very early on. But I also could look around and see all my friends drinking. We were all partying, it was normal. And then, of course, we've got social media, as the years went on, telling us it's normal. We've got advertising. That's always told us it's normal. You know, there's society and every occasion has alcohol. So there was nothing saying to me I was excuse me, I was different or I was abnormal or I was the one that had a problem. So I certainly I just kept going. It was probably when my son was one or two, so he was my third child. I was late 30s, two, so he was my third child.

Speaker 1:

I was late thirties and someone said to me, one of my friends. We were going out and one of them said we should practice drinking. We're so out of it with our babies. And I, for some reason, I took it literally and thought, yeah, good idea. And I know, and I'm like, yeah, well, maybe I was looking for an excuse to buy a bottle, I don't know, but I had a half a glass of wine that night and that that started me drinking at home, isolating, and it slowly increased over five or six years from half a glass to over two bottles of wine a night, and it could have been over two bottles plus some beer, or I ended up having vodka, like it. Just that tolerance it grew and I took it to my house.

Speaker 1:

It was isolating and I still went out at times with friends. I still felt that I wasn't that different, because you always find the people that you want to be around that make you not feel so bad. So I had friends that drank a lot, but I started to. Really it was a lot. I was thinking about it every day I've got to. I even started to go to different bottle shops. I don't want anyone to recognize me. You know how. Imagine if they thought I came here every day. Imagine you know that's exactly what I was doing. And then you know hiding bottles, putting them in neighbours' bins, like I did, all those things that I'm sure a lot of people will relate to.

Speaker 1:

And then COVID hit and during all of this time I tried different things career-wise. Like I became a photographer, which I kind of loved but I kind of hated. When you've got this kind of anxiety disorder, even holding a camera can be hard. When someone hands me a phone now to take a picture, I still get a moment of, oh, I'm going to shake, like it's something that's in me that I generally can do it now with everything I've learnt and worked through. But even with a camera I'd still have that anxiety. So I'd drink, you know, to calm it. So I did a few different things raising my kids, and I ended up working as a teacher's aide with autistic children, which I still do.

Speaker 1:

But I just knew there was something in me saying there's more to life for me and I I started to really say to myself I'm never going to achieve it If I keep drinking. I also started to really fear what was going to happen if I kept drinking. And you know my values and things, I was kind of letting them slide, which I think people will understand. When you're drinking, for example, I'd have a few drinks and I'd drive up to the bottle shop. That wasn't something I would do. So when I was drinking things like that and I started to worry.

Speaker 1:

I think one of the biggest worries for me was what if I drove my kids to school and I was still over the limit from the night before. That really became a worry, because those people go on the news. You know they're really publicly shamed, and I wasn't drinking in the morning. I'm very grateful I never got to that point. I could have, though that's what my fear was as well, because in COVID I definitely started to drink earlier. I also would say, oh well, it's 11 o'clock, but every day is rolling into one, you know. So a couple of times I got to that point, and that really scared me.

Speaker 1:

But the other thing COVID did for me was that Zoom appeared, and I couldn't talk on Zoom either back then. So my anxiety disorder was so bad I couldn't do that without shaking, but I decided something had to happen, something had to change. My life wasn't going in a good way. I did have dreams and desires that I knew weren't going to be met if I kept drinking. I felt, since I was 17, that day when I started shaking I'd always thought public speaking was going to be in my future. Don't ask me why. It was just something, and I did even study life coaching at one point. So I it was there. But because people used to say to me, who cares if you can't talk in front of people? Like you know, get up and talk. And I'm like, yes, to most people it wouldn't matter, but to me I want to do something with that. So, you know, during COVID, I want to do something with that. So, you know, during COVID, I thought what do I want with my life? And I actually started 2018.

Speaker 1:

I had my first break from alcohol before COVID. For five months, I found Quitlit Books. They became my savior because I didn't really know about podcasts back then. And I actually went to AA and I did that because I knew someone in it and I thought, well, I'll give that a go. And I loved the community. The community was everything to me. So I really loved meeting people who got me, and so that was really valuable at the time. But it also gave me a chance to start thinking about what I wanted for my future and little bits of the puzzle were coming together and I started looking up. I started looking up how to help people who drink too much and then I kind of thought I did a lot of coaching, I started to piece it together, but then I started drinking again.

Speaker 1:

So five months after I stopped I went to the neighbours and maybe it was the warmth and the barbecue smell, but I went ah, I'll have one, one bottle. So that was my first night of moderating. One bottle and it just increased again and COVID hit very soon after and so it was a real cognitive dissonance of I've realised that I want to be doing something different. But this is a really good opportunity to just drink. You know, it was because I didn't have to drive anywhere, I didn't have to pick kids up, I wasn't going to get caught.

Speaker 1:

But during this time my middle daughter, who was about the 14, started to really really notice my drinking and she started to get very angry, like texts in capitals, and the parents out there will understand that that is anger. But she'd be in her room, but she would be saying you're ruining my life, I hate you, and and I really I realized that she was scared. She was scared for me and she was scared for her and her siblings. You know, it didn't feel safe for her and at the time I was still in my marriage and it just didn't feel safe overall. So something had to change and it was around the time I found this naked mind was doing a 30 day event called the Live Alcohol Experiment.

Speaker 1:

Around that time I also started doing Zooms with the school I worked for and I'm really early on. I tried cognitive behavior therapy, which I also call baby step therapy, little tiny steps. So I started using the Zooms as a chance to just come on and say hello. I'd put my audio and screen on and say hi everyone, because I am quite outgoing. I'd get texts from people going oh, you're such an attention seeker, you know, thinking that I was doing it because I couldn't not talk or whatever, because at work I'm chatterbox, you know. But as soon as everything stops and looks at you, don't do that. But that really what I was doing with the zoom was practicing and it worked. I built up. I built up. I would go on and say how is everyone? Or I'd answer a question.

Speaker 1:

And then I did the live alcohol experiment. There were live coaches. I had enough confidence to talk and ask things, and that's where I realized that is what I want to be doing. I want to be the coach. And I realized that is what I want to be doing. I want to be the coach. And there was an Australian coach. I want to be her, I want to be doing what she's doing, and it was like the final piece of the puzzle fell in to place and I realized I want to be coaching people around alcohol. And more bits of the puzzle have come as I've gone on, including the trauma part, but it just felt like that's where I was meant to be.

Speaker 1:

So I then signed up to become a coach, but the day before I did the 30 days, I thought I'll just have a bottle of vodka. You know why, not Big last blowout. My kids were all elsewhere, so I felt I could do that and I ended up having a shower because I'd spilled something everywhere and falling over and breaking a rib in the shower. So that was a really big moment of I could have killed myself, because if I had just been a bit closer to the tap and knocked myself out or no one was there? No one was there and I didn't realize I'd done it, till I woke up the next day with a broken rib. So, yeah, it was going downhill and that was just like with everything my daughter and with how dangerous that had been, I thought this can't go on. So that's when I became a coach and it's been three years and a quarter alcohol free. So wow.

Speaker 2:

Wow, megan, there's so much of your story I think a lot of people will resonate with. You know the idea of COVID and shut down. And I think there's two types of people during COVID people who drank more because they all of a sudden could drink at home, and they that's what they did did and their drinking ramped up. And then the social drinkers who couldn't go out, so they stopped right. I've met both sides of it, but more and more people were on that side of okay, my drinking ramped up because of COVID. And you know, it is it, it's a.

Speaker 2:

It was a very difficult time and I think a lot of people use it as an excuse. But also you, I don't think you'd be where you are now if you didn't go through all of that. So you know, and I think the same way about every story here I'm going yeah, that's. You know I can resonate with that story. It's really difficult. But also you probably won't wouldn't be where you are today as a coach if you hadn't have had those hard times. So I'm I'm appreciative of you coming and sharing your story and being able to do so. I mean to overcome and, uh, what would you call it? I don't want to call it an issue, but, uh, you know, a stumbling block. What would you call? You know, not being able to speak in front of people? Look it was so.

Speaker 1:

Interestingly, now that I've done more work around it, it was definitely, I definitely call it a trauma that I I had, um, but I'd call it I, I used to call, you know, anxiety disorder a disorder. Um, but yeah, I don't know, I I think it also. Like you just said, I really embrace my past now, so it was a real learning tool for me as well.

Speaker 2:

But, um, yeah, an issue I hated to call it on your behalf, but you know it is, I think we all. What's interesting is that we all have our thing right, our thing that we need to overcome right, and for some it's bigger, for some it's smaller. And that's why I like talking about limiting beliefs, because maybe not everyone identifies with the term trauma and we can talk about what that term actually means, but we can all really resonate with that limiting belief of I can't do this because of X, y, z and you know, and I think that's all part of why we drink. And so to overcome that for you is amazing. I was thinking here the whole time. I was like, but she's on this, this call and talking to me, which is fantastic. Yes.

Speaker 1:

It's. It's sometimes I have to stop because I, you know, pinch myself moment Cause I also have started the podcast and we're two years into that. I couldn't have done this yet. It's something I feel I've always wanted to do, without knowing it's weird to say that, because podcast didn't even exist back then, but I have always, like I said, I wanted to do some kind of public speaking and help people. So to have come full circle, to have gotten that out of stopping drinking, is just the best thing ever. I can't say how exciting it is, and it also shows my kids what's possible and other people, but I think it's a great example to them. I was really worried that I'd screwed them up and they would never trust me, but actually what's come out of it is that they are very, very proud and they can see that you can do anything that you put your mind to.

Speaker 2:

That's so amazing. That must feel so good.

Speaker 1:

Yes, yeah, it's amazing, it's so good to. Yes, yeah, it's amazing, it's so good to have that, you know, come out of something that wasn't positive to turn around it's been amazing.

Speaker 2:

I love that. Well, let's dive into the idea of trauma and limiting beliefs. Should we start with defining what trauma is?

Speaker 1:

To be honest, I didn't like the word when I first started learning about it. I felt it was overused and that, you know, that's what came up for me. But the more I've learned about it, you know, the more I've learned a few things. So, firstly, when we think of trauma, we often think of major events such as abuse, natural disasters, wars and things like that. But what I focus on in my coaching and what you know is my personal experience is what I like to call an invisible trauma. So it's the emotional trauma that most of us, if not all of us, have experienced in childhood and throughout the rest of our lives. It's the result of these traumas are what I call the core wounds or the core beliefs. So you'll hear me talk about core wounds as well as trauma. Trauma is the event that happened, and you may or may not remember that, and that's fine. But the core wound is the belief that we took from the event. So trauma is not about the past. It's about how that past continues to affect us now, and the invisible trauma often stems from a loss of connection to ourselves. So it's important to remember also that the same event can be deeply traumatic for one person and not for another, and that highlights how personal and unique the experience of trauma really is. So it took me a long time to allow myself to admit that I had trauma in my childhood because I felt a bit like I was being dramatic if I went there. But I also felt I was blaming people and I know that a lot of my clients say but I had a great childhood and I said that and I did have so many aspects were great, so many. But when we're born, we're, you know, pure little beings. We don't have thoughts saying that we're not right or we're not acceptable or things like that. But life happens, so these things come at us from. It can be parents or friends or society or TV. You know it's the traumas I talk about are things that, as I said, different for everyone. That, but we take on to mean something about ourself and it's not a positive thing. So what was crucial for me to recognize was that my feelings were real and valid, and this goes for everyone, no matter how small you may perceive your experience or no matter how others perceive it.

Speaker 1:

So sometimes we might say to ourselves or someone might say to us get over it, it wasn't that bad, you know, suck it up, and so we're often taught from an early age that it's not traumatic, but in fact it's our lack of ability to suck it up. So then we push it down and we go. Well, something's wrong with me if I'm upset over that. But over time, this trauma can lead us to believe that we're unworthy, unlovable, inherently flawed, and it shapes our lives, shapes our relationships and who we are, and it instills false beliefs about ourselves. And these are our core beliefs, core wounds, and they're subconscious, so we act from them throughout our life without knowing so. Once I accepted that I did have trauma, I was able to work on my core wounds and turn them from negative beliefs to positive, and that's what I do in my coaching and also just remembering. It's not about blame. It's about acknowledging that things we went through in our lives changed how we felt about ourselves.

Speaker 2:

It's really interesting, because that word trauma you're right, it's a buzzword, but to me it's always been sort of a negative buzzword, in a sense that it's kind of like the word alcoholic. To me, right, trauma meant really really intense, right, really something very serious, right. And so, as we're learning more about mental health, I'm realizing, well, trauma could be really anything and it is such a personalized experience. So, as you were saying it's so funny, as you were talking about, oh, I stood up in class and this happened the whole time. You were talking about that when I was little. This is so silly, right, you're? You're just think, oh, yeah, something like that happened to me when I was little.

Speaker 2:

I went to go. I asked my dad we were at the grocery store and we were paying for something and I asked if I could pay. He gave me the money to pay the cashier and I gave her what I thought was the correct amount of money, right? And he yelled at me right, not a big deal, right, fathers, do I step at my kids all the time? Right, not a big deal.

Speaker 2:

I was so shooken up, not because he yelled at me, but because I was wrong, that for years I would not pay for anything. I would give money to somebody else to pay for something, right Again, so silly. This is such a silly example, but it just reminded me of like that haunted me for years and actually what it did to for me. And if my sister's listening to this she'll laugh because, right, everybody has a different experience of that the story. But for years I would make my sister, my little sister, pay for things and she became more of the big sister and I became the role of the little sister in my eyes which is just it changed the dynamic over this something so small.

Speaker 2:

So I love that you're bringing attention to this, because I think people can kind of go back and think of these things that have shaped our lives, our personalities, our character, our traits, off of something really maybe insignificant to other people but significant enough to us to make an impact. And these not that I drank over this, but again it just it formed who I was and that's what these, these traumas do.

Speaker 1:

Yes, that is a perfect example because, yes, that is a perfect example because it's insignificant. If you're telling that to someone, a lot of people might go, oh my God, but it changed so much in you. And that is what I'm referring to. If trauma is too big a word for some people, that's fine, too Like, but it is an event that has changed us and it did do something to our child brain. This is part of the work I do is as adults, we can look back and change the beliefs because we can realize that it wasn't about our self-worth. That event wasn't saying what we took it on to mean.

Speaker 1:

But I've had traumas happen that were similar, and one of them was when I got up in front of my class in year one. Oh no, this is so funny Like. It's funny now, but it affected me for my whole life and I'll tell you what core belief came out of it that I'm stupid. And it all was because I copied the person opposite me maths answers. I don't know if that was English what I just said. I copied their answers and they were upside down. I went up to the teacher and I can still picture it. She laughed and laughed and in that moment I thought she laughed and laughed and I think she said something like this is all wrong and I got red crosses and in that moment I said oh, you are so stupid, how could you do that?

Speaker 1:

Belief then followed me. Now, as an adult, I was actually quite clever because I was only learning to write, yet I did numbers upside down, like that's a bit of a skill. It's not, and for whatever reason, I didn't feel like I wanted to write my own answers. The whole thing it was. It didn't mean what I made it to mean. It didn't mean I was stupid, but I took that on and that's been a underlying belief in my life that has affected many things.

Speaker 1:

I didn't go to university because of that Like it changes a lot of things, these seemingly small events. But if we can pinpoint back to that, we can see that, oh my gosh, that did create this belief in me. And not everyone will have these memories that you and I have just said, but doing this kind of work, which I do with people, often they come up. But you can still work on these core beliefs without knowing exactly where they came from.

Speaker 2:

Wow, wow, it's so amazing, I have to ask you. So then, what is the difference between limiting beliefs and trauma? Can we define what limiting beliefs are?

Speaker 1:

So I think limiting beliefs, I think, are really similar to these core beliefs. So I think what happens is our limiting beliefs come about from the traumatic event and for you yes, for an onlooker it wasn't that traumatic. Even for you now you can say it wasn't that traumatic. But out of that came a limiting belief. You know you could not be the one paying. You couldn't do that. You know, for whatever reason your brain had taken that on, it also could have been that you know there could be other beliefs below that, like my one of I'm stupid. In this naked mind. We work around beliefs. You know core wounds is something I work in my coaching. So they come from the traumatic event and again, it doesn't have to be what's perceived as traumatic, but for our brain it was.

Speaker 2:

So someone may not remember the trauma, but they may know that they have a limiting belief. Is that accurate to say, so that you could say I know this to be true, but I don't know why?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yes, yes, and and it could be that you don't even know that you've got the limiting belief at that this point, uh, but you can still find that out. So if you do know, for example, that you know, a few, many years ago my husband at the time and I went to something called landmark. I was on the self-help journey and I got up and from what we'd done there I realized that I got up and said I'm stupid and he's slow. We'd worked out a limiting belief that day, and so I kind of was aware of it. But from what we went, I can't remember exactly what we did that day, but it came up to the front of my mind that I do have this belief and I didn't know why I didn't work out why at that point. It was just that I felt stupid and then I started to realize where it had come up. So I had no idea that it went back to that event in year one that has come about.

Speaker 1:

The more work I've done. It just popped up but sometimes they won't, I'm sure a lot of because you might have a limiting belief or a core wound around. I'm not smart or I'm dumb. There might have been five other things that happened to me that I don't remember because it kind of is cemented as time goes on. So we don't have to find out. What we do want to do is challenge those beliefs and turn them around from being true. Turn them around to something positive, and you know, I do that by looking at is it true, for example, is it true that I'm stupid? And then I can work through it in all the areas where it's not true. You're just trying to start those neural pathways changing because these are deep ingrained beliefs that we've taken on for whatever reason. So the idea is to turn them around.

Speaker 2:

So I'm thinking okay, so this is a lot of reasons why people drink. Right, people are drinking. Ultimately they're drinking, and maybe they don't even know why they're drinking.

Speaker 2:

Maybe, they don't even know that limiting belief yet and they don't know that they have trauma, but they know they're drinking for other reasons, right? So maybe they know that they're drinking for a reason unbeknownst to them. Is that fair to say? Yes, Okay, so you almost work backwards in a sense, like you know that you're drinking and it's doesn't feel maybe true to your values and you dig a little deeper and you understand that, okay, I have this limiting belief.

Speaker 2:

and you dig a little deeper and you realize that you have this trauma. Yes, Wow, that's I mean. So I have to ask you then in an alcohol-free journey, does a lot of this work come out after you become sober or does it come out while you're trying to become alcohol-free?

Speaker 1:

You know, maggie, it can be a mix of both. You know, uh, maggie, it can be a mix of both. So it it certainly started to come out for me in while I still was drinking like. So it can be either and um, any grace in this naked mind will say that you could go on this healing journey before you stop drinking. You can just do the work and then things will come up and you'll realize and things will change in your behaviors, like drinking, or you can stop drinking and go on this journey. But either way, you want to have a look at these beliefs.

Speaker 1:

I believe anyone that uses something to numb out whether it's drinking or other things there's many other things people use to numb out Just because someone's not drinking doesn't mean they don't have these deep core beliefs. But I believe if you are numbing out in some way, it's worth looking at, because once we work on them and change them, we don't need to numb. We find other coping mechanisms that are healthy. You know, we learn to value ourselves and love ourselves. This is what we want the end goal to be, because at the moment we're drinking to cover all that up. Does that make?

Speaker 2:

sense. It makes complete sense, it's just. It is really interesting concept to me too, because I feel like when we stop drinking, it becomes for me anyway it became a self-development journey, right, learning more about myself, growing and challenging myself in new ways. It becomes for me anyway. It became a self-development journey, right, learning more about myself, growing and challenging myself in new ways and just trying to be a better version of myself. And I can see this work being a part of a lot of people's journeys.

Speaker 2:

So, even after they remove alcohol, really doing you know, we talk about doing the work, which is making sure you're staying in the communities and you know, and reading the books and listening to podcasts and just staying with it. But oftentimes that becomes a self-development journey and you start exploring all sorts. Right, you go back to school, you start doing the work you did, right? Oh, I want to become a coach and I want to. I want to understand myself better, so I'm going to go take this class. So I love this whole concept because it feeds right into this kind of life without alcohol and all the possibilities that can come from doing this work.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, same, and I think most of the people I've met do continue on a self-healing journey. One of the quotes I've I love that I resonate with is um, change is not an event, it's a process, and that's exactly what it is. You know this. For me, and for me personally, if I were to stop all this, I'd probably end up going back to drinking because I want the self-healing. It's become really fun and you might agree like that's why we do it, because it's like, oh, this is really great. And I think naturally it leads us to finding things about ourselves and if we can change that, it's pretty exciting. And you know, for me it's led to me finding things I want to do that are my purpose and passion, and that will look different for everyone, but if this can lead people to being fulfilled in ways like that, then how amazing is that.

Speaker 2:

So amazing. It's so amazing. I want to go back to something you said, which is using alcohol as a coping mechanism. So do you feel that everybody uses alcohol as a coping mechanism, or why do some people use it as a coping mechanism and others don't?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so that's the big question that I know that, like everyone gets asked. Why do some people and you know there is beliefs around that there's a genetic aspect and things like that my daughter came to me she's now 19 and said I'm worried about having it in the family, this addiction. And I said to her I don't think it's addiction that runs in the family. I said I think it's anxiety. So for me personally, personally, I don't believe it runs. I think in my family we do have anxiety and until we learn ways to deal with that, people have reached for different things.

Speaker 1:

I feel lucky because there's something called generational trauma, which is traumas passed on between generations. It's like when you take on your parents' things or whatever it is. You know it even goes back to when we've had grandparents or great-grandparents in war. You know these things can be passed down and that can be how anxieties come about and things like that. But yeah, saying to, I can now break the trauma cycle because of the work I've done and I'm really excited about that. So with her I can talk about different ways that she can manage anxiety that aren't alcohol. So that's just an example. I was just saying that because you know some people will say it's genetic. There's all different reasons why people reach for different things, but addictions can come in the form of gambling, gaming, shopping online, sitting on the lounge watching TV and eating, which I still do sometimes you know, I'm not saying you can't do some of these things.

Speaker 1:

But the numbing out is what we're really trying to do when we use coping mechanisms when we've got trauma. So it might look different to different people, but it's also what works for each person. And I accidentally discovered alcohol worked for me. It was really just like I said that night I had my first drink. I just went oh, it stops me shaking. So it was just, it worked. I hadn't found anything else that stopped my shaking, so I kind of fell into that. Now my parents didn't drink.

Speaker 1:

They certainly have had anxiety in different ways, but I do have other family members that drank. So it's it's. It just varies between person to person. I think it's. It can be societal. You know what's available to us, what's easy. But yeah, I think if people do have unresolved trauma, they probably will be finding some numbing technique. That may or may not be alcohol. I mean, some people go down the drug route. That wasn't me and I can't say why, except that I was too anxious Whereas some people will have it to stop their anxiety. It's just. It also depends on your makeup and things like that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's so interesting. Thank you for answering that. It was just, and you're right, we do turn to a lot of other things, and I'm I've found in this work too, that you can trade one coping mechanism for another, right? So when I removed alcohol, I I actually got a full blown sugar addiction, Like everyone's on their phones, everyone's shopping. So it really is, too. When we think about the self-development journey, is having those reflections and that awareness and that pause to realize is is whatever I'm using as a coping mechanism crossing the line? Right, that alcohol did for us, right? Is it crossing that line? Where we are, we're using it as a crutch and we have to have it versus something we enjoy doing, and so, yeah, thank you for explaining that.

Speaker 2:

I want to talk a little bit about how someone might be able to recognize their drinking is linked to past trauma. Are there signals? Are there things that happen? Is there something to look out for?

Speaker 1:

I think for me I'll use me as an example I wouldn't have realized at the beginning that it was linked to past trauma. But the way I found out and the way that I get my clients to find out, is to really start looking at why you're drinking. So asking yourself, like, for me, I was drinking for confidence. Asking yourself like, for me, I was drinking for confidence. But a lot of people, some people might say I drink because I'm bored or I drink to relax. It can be as simple as that, not knowing anything's behind that. So from there this is when I start to do that sort of backward process to get down to trauma I start with so say we look at, I drink for me, I drink to stop my anxiety. And then I went through I worked through that and I will work through with clients to say, okay, is it true that alcohol stops my anxiety? And what I found out was for the first hour. For the first hour it was true, but beyond that, oh gosh, beyond that I don't even want to think about how bad I got after that Messy. It wasn't a confidence I had, it was a drunken stupor. But the next day, guilt, blame, anxiety, which is an anxiety brought on by alcohol. So I started to see that this belief that I used alcohol for anxiety actually wasn't true. And what was true was that it was causing anxiety in me, so it was exacerbating whatever anxiety I already had. So, even though it was a very short fix, ultimately it was making the problem worse.

Speaker 1:

So once I sort of got to that level, I had a look at why do I even need that confidence? Why do I think you know what's wrong with if I just went somewhere and didn't drink? And then I started to see that I had these beliefs that well, what if I shake, or what if I don't sound smart enough, or what if I can't keep the conversation going? I started to realize that these were things I thought and then, further on from that, it came to that I didn't feel lovable, I didn't feel smart. So as I worked through it, I started to see how it was related to these core beliefs and the traumas that had led to that. So I'm not sure if someone will be able to recognise those traumas, but certainly there are other levels of trauma as well that people might go. Well, something happened to me and it could be more of an obvious one. Maybe someone got assaulted in the street or something. They might know that that's led to things. But the ones that I really have worked on are ones that weren't obvious.

Speaker 1:

So I did have to do that digging and that's what I like to take my clients through is just starting with the why do you drink, and another one's for loneliness, and that one in particular was big for me. I drank for loneliness. Now, ultimately, I was isolating myself. So it really turned into that drinking alcohol made me lonely, but also under it was the fear that I wouldn't be loved. That's how different like you can just go. Well, I drink because I'm lonely, but right down at my core is this worry that I'm not lovable. But I didn't know that until I worked through it. And even now you were talking about sugar. If I feel that I need a sugar hit, I will ask myself what do I need? And it might be that I need to connect with someone you know so I can look at a healthy way to deal with that. But because I've worked on this core belief, I know it's not true anymore that I'm unlovable.

Speaker 2:

Wow, it's just so. This conversation is just so interesting to me. I have to ask you if you are working with clients and uncovering trauma, does that trigger them to drink more?

Speaker 1:

Look, I in general. So first of all I do like to tell everyone I'm not a doctor, I'm a coach, so I always recommend therapy If people feel that there are things that might come up that they don't know or you know, that's always a warning and I'll put that here. I have been through therapy and I loved it, so I'm an advocate for that, for sure. I will also work with someone where they're comfortable. So if someone you know one of my clients recently said I'm not ready to go there, fine, let's do something else, and that's you know. It's only where people are comfortable. I have worked in big group settings and sometimes people will say oh I heard something in it.

Speaker 1:

I had to drink after it. So there are definitely triggers. But that also is an opportunity to look at what's coming up, what drove that person to need to have a drink. So it's not going to make someone drink, but definitely you know we tread carefully. Someone drink, but definitely you know we tread carefully and if there are triggers we work through that.

Speaker 1:

Because that's a big part of the process of going alcohol free is I had triggers for a long time. I can still go outside and something can make me think of, oh, that'd be nice, and then very quickly I go to. Actually it wouldn't really at all at all, but I've had to go through all those situations and memories and triggers to be able to work through them, to be able to be at the point where, if anything comes up now, I don't need that. I've got a lot going on right now with my son, for example. Never does alcohol come into that as a thought, but early in the early days I had to work through to get to this point, so I wouldn't be. We're not doing coaching, we work forward. Um, therapy will dig into the actual events.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, we won't go into the events if that makes sense yes, it absolutely makes sense and I know that from you, know my, my coaching as well, and that if you want to work through the past, you really do need to work with with therapists, and I'm I'm glad you mentioned that because it's a, it's a key call out here of anyone who feels like they do have trauma and wants to work through it and then to work with a coach as well, because, to your point, that coach helps you move forward and that's key there. And speaking of moving forward, I just wanted to also ask what maybe some first steps someone could explore about their drinking patterns when they're feeling overwhelmed. So if they feel overwhelmed and they realize that they're turning to drink like, what are some first steps that they could take to fix that?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, well, I think anyone that's feeling that that's listening to this, that is a great first step. You know, really having a look what's available podcasts this is amazing, maggie the Sober Summit books you know these are the first steps I took getting curious. It's really helpful to listen to other people's stories to see what they've done, but I think having a look what interests you. So for my podcast, for example, we have I do it with another coach and we have guests, we have personal stories, so just something like that is a great tool and there's many amazing podcasts around sobriety out there. I love I direct people to start to have a look at what resonates with them and then you can meet or online courses, you know, and you get to meet different people and find different coaches or things like that.

Speaker 1:

But I think for me, there was just a niggle in the back of my head telling me I needed to take a look at it and I literally just started by jumping on the internet and seeing what was out there. I think between 2018 and now, there's a lot more available now and that can be a bit overwhelming. But just start with one thing at a time. Have a look at one book or one interview or one podcast, and these days you can Google exactly what you're feeling and something will come up. So for my daughters with anxiety, I say Google that exact feeling you're feeling and plug into it, because someone will help you not feel alone.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I love that. I do that with you know podcasts. I'll go to a specific topic in my alcohol-free journey. Right, like you know not being invited to out with friends, or you know something very specific and all of a sudden all these episodes pop up and I'm like brilliant.

Speaker 1:

This is great, that's it, it's so great. And then they might have a suggestion and you go, oh, I didn't think of that, or point you in a different direction, or or the right direction. That can be a great starting place.

Speaker 2:

I love that. I just want to ask sort of one last question, and it's it's about healing trauma. So when we talk about healing trauma, I don't know what that feels like for you, because you still remember it right, it doesn't go away. But so what is? What does healed trauma look like? I guess is my question, and how can that help lead to you know, continuing and staying on an alcohol-free journey?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's a good question and of course, everything I say here is kind of my opinion. Other people will have different answers to all these things, but also it's lived experience. So we all come from what's worked for us and I think, what it looks like for me first of all, I often say it's like starting this work is like throwing a rock into a clear pond and then all the dirt comes up, like it's messy and overwhelming and but eventually it settles and so it's not. It's totally normal to start it and go, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, there's so much. There's totally normal to start it and go oh my gosh, oh my gosh, there's so much, there's so much. But for me what it looks like is that I've really, really started to trust myself. I don't react, I respond.

Speaker 1:

The journey to self-love. You know some people will go, but it's. It's loving yourself is the, you know, helps you love other people and everything. I truly believe that it's not an overnight thing I'm still working on that but that has helped me definitely have confidence in myself. I feel like I've connected to my authentic self. You know, this is sometimes it won't be major things, because I'll still have things come up and I'll go. What you should you know the should you should not feel that in this situation anymore. But that's okay, because I remind myself it's a process. This is a never-ending life, is a never-ending, you know, process of learning. While we're here, um, and knowing that it's not, there's not an end point, allows me to, you know, go, okay, that means I just have a little bit more to learn in that place, or whatever it might be, but overall I think it's. It's reconnecting back with your inner self, your your authentic self, trusting, trusting yourself.

Speaker 1:

You know, I've had situations recently where I've spoken up for things that I believe in, but I do it really in such a different way. Either I wouldn't have ever said anything in the past, or because I would have been too afraid to speak up, or I might have said it in a reaction to something I really take time to think about is this what I really want and is it going to make a difference? And so it's really helped me speak up and feel a lot freer, and I think it's really helped me in the harder times to just have a base that's calmer than it ever used to be. It doesn't mean we don't still go up and down and things I you know same as everyone. It just gives you a different baseline. That's like with, um, the somatic trauma healing I do you know, the breathing, the there's cold water therapy, there's all sorts of things that help your vagus nerve to be in a really good place. I feel that I come from that now, so I'm in a better position to deal with things that come my way.

Speaker 2:

So amazing. And now you get to help so many other people heal themselves and, you know, continue on their alcohol-free journey. Megan, I think what you're doing is amazing. I'm so grateful that you came here to share your story with us and and all this information I learned. So grateful that you came here to share your story with us and all this information. I learned so much myself during this conversation. So thank you so much for being here. Where can people find out more about you and connect with you?

Speaker 1:

Thank you so much for having me, maggie. What a pleasure and I just feel so grateful. So you can find me at meganwebbcomau and I also. I have a podcast that you mentioned is Not Drinking Alcohol Today, which is on Apple, google, spotify, those platforms. And I have a book club that I do with another coach, an Aussie coach. We both trained through this naked mind, but it is called Unwind, as in unwind with an e. I love that. Yeah, it's a good one, unwindbookclubcom. And yeah, just the information is on my website and there's a chance for a free discovery call. If people want to sign up for that, it's a no strings attached. Have a chat to me and I can point people in the right direction. If they don't want to work with me or if they just want some ideas, you know I'm happy to have that chat with people and point you somewhere. That'll be helpful.

Speaker 2:

I love that and we'll put links to everything down below so people can easily find you. Megan, Thank you so much for being here. Thanks so much, Maggie.