Laughs without Lager

Alcohol and toxic friendships

• Ali and Meg

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We unpack how alcohol glued unhealthy friendships together, why sobriety exposed toxic patterns, and how learning to respond instead of react rebuilt our boundaries and our circles. Some ties faded, stronger ones deepened, and we found new friends who match our values, not our pour.

• booze-bonded friendships and enabling
• toxic comments normalized by drinking
• fear of confrontation and people-pleasing
• shifting from reacting to responding
• accountability and letting go of anger
• spotting jealousy, digs and red flags
• codependence and performance drinking
• losing alcohol-only friends without regret
• keeping deeper friends and finding new ones
• raising standards, dating yourself and safety




Meg's Dry January - FORWARD TOGETHER

https://www.elizaparkinson.com/forwardtogether

Contact Us:

https://www.meganwebb.com.au/podcast-1


Ali

insta: https://www.instagram.com/idontdrinkfullstop/


Meg

website: https://www.meganwebb.com.au/

insta: https://www.instagram.com/meganwebbcoaching/

bookclub: https://www.alcoholfreedom.com.au/unwinedbookclub

Connect AF: https://www.elizaparkinson.com/groupcoaching

SPEAKER_02:

Hey Megsy. Hey Allie. How are you going? I'm great. How are you? I'm good. It's good to see you. Yes. Good to see you too. We've got a good juicy one today, don't we?

SPEAKER_00:

Oh yes. We like a bit of juice. We are talking about um friends that we only had because they loved booze as much as us.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

Which I don't know about you, but it was pretty much uh a lot of my life.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Those friendships were based around um who yeah, just heavy drinking.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, because it not only enabled it, it made um it made me feel comfortable, it made me feel better about my bad choices, not alone in my bad choices, and kind of took the responsibility off me because I could say, oh well, so-and-so's the same. You know, even if it was just to myself, I'd be like, I'm not the worst out there. So it was a weird kind of relationship. And I know a lot of people ask, I'd not I'm sure you get this too, Allie. You know, people say, but I'll lose my friends if I stop drinking. And a big part of this for me was recognising which friends I was okay to lose because we weren't doing each other any favors. It's both ways. I was yeah, I was helping them, enabling them. I'm not saying it was their fault, I was equal part, but when it came down to it, we were it was an unhappy type of friendship. What do you think?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I had um towards the end, uh um, yeah, there was a couple of people that were in my life, and and when we drink, it would be um really toxic, actually, which I just honestly, I mean, I was so sort of drunk or stoned that and that's usually when the comment would be like a punch in the guts, and you you know, I'd be so fucking like flabbergasted and basically out of it that I'd be like, what the fuck? Yeah, and really had no capacity to fucking defend myself or just it was just such a shock.

SPEAKER_02:

I was blindsided, but it it was hard starting to happen a lot more often with one in particular person, but again, I just I was just so in that so were you saying it was almost abusive, like it was toxic, where they were able to be unkind to you, and because how far gone you were, you couldn't, and it almost like because I had a similar friendship, it was like alcohol gave them permission to do it, and it also I mean, it gave me permission to be a bitch, don't get me wrong, but it gave it it also stopped like you just said, you couldn't stand up for yourself. You you know, you you let people I almost drank to partly to allow that behavior, it it allowed it, you know.

SPEAKER_00:

So we so because but I just honestly, Meg, I just whether I'm pissed or straight, I don't speak up for myself. Right. I hate, absolutely hate confrontation. Yeah, never have I ever like had a fucking bar fight or a just a bitch fight, really. Like, yeah, I just have never done it. I would go, I would just fawn. I so then that would be uh this, you know, not just that person, but I mean my fucking marriage, you know. Oh yeah, yeah. Just the passive aggressiveness. I I would just any swiff of uh aggression, I would shut down. But in particular, just yeah, that that was my pattern. So I guess I was you know, maybe the the type of person that you would feel that you could say those things to, but I was the one that I yeah, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02:

I yeah, I invited comments based on my I think because I let them like exactly. I didn't say anything. I I I I wouldn't stand up for myself because I was too scared they'd turn around and go, but you were so drunk. I didn't want to hear that.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

SPEAKER_02:

I didn't want to hear about my drinking, so I wouldn't say anything because of that. But I I'm the same, I don't like confrontation, but I've worked what I have gained in this nearly four years alcohol free is the ability to respond and not react now. So if I and like the let them theory, I choose either if something happens, say at work or I I want to speak up or in my life, I choose let them, but then I go let me. Do I feel I need to say something, or do I feel I can let it go? And that's my test now to, and if I feel I need to say something, I've got the clarity to actually say it in a in a you know, a grown-up way, not hurting people, but doing that is an assertive way, assertive, but that I never want to be either. I still have issues around coming across as mean, yeah. So I absolutely struggle with assertiveness because I associate that with mean. And so putting up boundaries is a practice I'm working on. Yeah, not easy, not easy, not easy, but I do feel that I can respond now and not react, and I can put across a non-emotional point of view if I feel I've been wrongly done. For example, this year, I thought, I thought, um, I don't want to go too dramatic, but um, there was an issue with my son, and he wasn't treated right by the police, and I took the police on. Oh, good. So I really stood up for what I believed in myself.

SPEAKER_00:

And Mama Bear.

SPEAKER_02:

Mama Bear came out, and I was so good with how I spoke to them very respectfully. I responded the emotion. I didn't do anything until the emotion was out of it. So I have the ability now to do that. Whereas when I had an alcohol haze, I was just a blame, blame, blame, blame, blame, blame, blame, blame blame game, throwing, throwing comments like fuck. Just no.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, just angry because we're but angry.

SPEAKER_02:

I was angry, and I felt everything was unfair, and so I was the victim, and I was and I don't want it to sound like I was like I wasn't in fights either. But if if something happened, say at work, I'd get really upset and then I might walk out.

SPEAKER_00:

Like that was my I just it's and then go, well, uh would you just go home and get pissed?

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh yes, and then just be like, Oh yeah, and then I'd ring a friend and whinge. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

I've definitely learnt to take accountability. So now when I respond, it's because I do feel there's something unf an imbalance, whereas a lot of it doesn't worry me anymore because I don't have the anger, so straight away it's not there, yeah. But it's taken work and like you said, standing up and all that, it's taken practice, and I'm not I'm nowhere near a hundred percent good at that, but I'm definitely improving. It's definitely a practice.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I'm glad I for that particular friendship, I'm glad that I was even still drinking and I and I cut it off. You know, yes. I kind of still I mean, I left the marriage, I you know, that was courageous and awful and all of those things. And it and it kind of continued because obviously the friendships that I had were all revolved, you know, like who, yeah, we'd go out and drink and or just go to people's houses or whatever. But it was good. I kind of, I don't know, something inside me just thought, well, actually, even my daughter and and a girl from work, I love her. She was I because I'd come to work on a Monday and I'd be like, oh my god, this is what happened on you know, either Friday or Saturday night, and da da da da. And and my friend and also my child was like, Why are you letting that person or those people do that to you?

SPEAKER_01:

Yep.

SPEAKER_00:

Like, come on, there's just like tell them to fuck off. And I was like, Oh, well, oh, and so then I wouldn't talk to them for a little whit, you know, and then it'd be the text. It's almost like a toxic, you know, romantic relationship, but it was it was a full-on toxic, uh, very narcissistic. I learned that word through that, and I had no clue because I was just on fucking autopilot of haze, and that's what my marriage was, so I just knew no different. So that um I'm you know proud that I recognized that while I was still drinking and thinking, because yeah, I just wake up in the morning, and honestly, Meg, I I just it was just awful how someone that claims to love you and have your back, and oh never, you know, it's just fucking bullshit.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I ended up getting paranoid. Yeah, I'd become paranoid in situations with the person that I experienced this with, and uh looking back rightly so, because they were sort of making fun of me and talking about me in front of my face, but because I was drinking, this is what I was talking about, they'd just go, You're fucking pissed, you're dramatic, you're paranoid, with good reason now that I'm clear. The problem was I got myself into that mess, so I do not what I do take from it is thank God it happened because I'm now coach, a coach for narcissistic abuse survivors and that because I have a have lived experience in it. Yeah, if I hadn't been through all that, I wouldn't be able to be working on what I am today, and yeah, and it's and that includes not letting that back into my life, yeah, which takes work. So that's in a partner and in a friendship, yeah. But I definitely allowed it in, and then I was so worried that it'd be my drinking would be blamed for it. I just let it happen time and time again. Yeah, and and it was like sorry, it was like a bad relationship with a partner.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh yeah, and that yeah, it that that was a big aha, you know, moments because you know, throughout my sort of teens and mid, you know, into your twenties and stuff like that, like everyone I ever knew, we were all just party piss heads, you know. Um which for the majority of the mate, not a problem. But um, when you're kind of in that modality of outside validation and or keeping up, you know, with the Joneses, like I would drink more than the boys for that validation, I would do everything to perform basically, um, when you're drinking, and then it's like, yeah, you attract those sort of people that they're just not, you know, as I say, you could have a party, as long as there was a bottle of something, yeah, then we could have a good time. If we didn't have alcohol, we would never see each other. Like they had did you have friends that you go, oh I'll go for a walk with, and then you'd have friends that you just get placoded with. Yeah.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

I know which which my my friends that I get placot with was freaking double the people that I wanted to walk with. Oh, 100% because we're not in that, yep, you know.

SPEAKER_02:

No, and you know what? The podcast we did a couple of weeks ago, I spoke about at the reunion I went to. Um, if I'd been drinking, I would have magnetized to the person that was the biggest drinker, and that was my talent.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes.

SPEAKER_02:

Somehow you are magnets to people, but then so you leave, you leave thinking, I've made a new friend, if you remember it. I probably made new friends that I don't remember the date next day. But the ones I did, we connected over being massive piss heads, and there begins a toxic relationship. Yes, and our only bond was drinking. And so when people say, Do you lose friends? I did lose those people because I'm different.

SPEAKER_00:

It's never about the friendship, it was about the alcohol and what that's right for us, you know.

SPEAKER_02:

It was enabling each other, it was being self-pitying with each other, it was attacking other people just verbally to each other, yeah, um, bitching, gossip, whatever.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Um it it had a purpose for both of us, both parties in these relationships, because we're both miserable, you know, and that was the connection.

SPEAKER_00:

So yeah, it's amazing how you know with the with the school sort of community, how many marriages are really not fucking good. And you add alcohol to it, and it's in fighting, outfighting, flirting, probably fucking, I don't know, but you know, it's all about this the the piss, you know, camping, you just get absolutely fucking slaughtered. And you know, like, yeah, it was fun, but we just didn't actually inevitably the same sort of crew would end up in the same sort of either crying or fighting or fucking both, the tears or someone would attack me because oh, you know, I'm too funny or I'm too this, or oh mate, it it's just so refreshing now that yes, you may lose, but are they they're the friendships that needed to be lost a long, long I mean, this is part of the the alcohol freedom is actually learning to well just not holding on to things and people not holding on to it, yeah. You know, it's just it's just so much like oh does this feel good? And it's actually listening, it's not um getting gas. I'm not gaslighting myself.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, and that's exactly gaslighting yourself. How many times when you were drunk did you go, that bitch was so mean to me? But but really, if we felt it, yeah, but it would have gone over your head if you were sober, you just would have gone, that that's a total load of crap coming out of their mouth that means nothing. But when you're drunk, it amplifies it. Oh, how dare they be like that? And yeah, oh the drama and the overthinking and the oversharing, oversharing, and you know, and also being who you're not, like we've said before, being who you're not, like I was meaner when I drank, I was yeah, just uh selfish.

SPEAKER_00:

I was all those things, and uh and so well, even just to your to you know, it even to parent, like with that head space, yeah. Oh I wonder why my kids got fucking anxiety, and you know, she doesn't feel safe if she's learning now, but you know, there's that's on me for being immature parent, um, which again that's a great book about codependence. Um you know, because most of my relationships were codependent.

SPEAKER_02:

Yep, yeah, you know, and we we learn what we grow up with, and um but here we are taking responsibility, which even that is so good for our kids to see, yes, um, no matter what age, no matter what age. Um, and I know now, as I'm sure you know your daughter feels with you, I am a safe place. And there's no doubt there, because you know, we're four or five years alcohol free. They know now that and and to give them that gift, yes, there are things that we'd like to probably change in the past, but yeah, we now can give them a gift because we've done this, so that's pretty huge.

SPEAKER_00:

It is actually because I I was only, yeah, I sort of was thinking about that the other day with you know, um yeah, when you sort of reflect on who's who's in your life, I guess maybe because it's the new moon and I'm a bit woo-woo. Yeah, um yeah, you just think who who feels who's gonna stay and who's gonna go. We're coming up to you know, 2026 is motoring on and it's like yeah, okay, it's just another like um another positive thing that I can know that I've got love and support um that are actually proper love and support. There's no questioning that in my head, like am I gonna walk out of there and fucking have to remove the knife? No, yeah, I don't have any knives in my back.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes, how good is that?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I mean there might be a few there, might go whatever, but you know, for the majority, a lot of my as mum used to say, like as I've said before, you know, they were just a lot of my friendships were they were just like coat hangers, they were just hanging on and just it was all about you know just everything just revolved around drinking, like none of us ever went roller skating. If we went roller skating, it'd be like, yep, quick, let's do it, and then fucking drink. Yep. Or we'd go to the you know, the little nippers I remember on a Sunday morning, you know, everyone and we hardly even fucking talk to each other. But guess what? 11 o'clock, yeah, the bars open, and we all start talking because we've all got a can in our hand. Yep, or you go to that.

SPEAKER_02:

I know, or you go somewhere and you'd go, I'll stuff something in my bag because there's no way we're doing something social without alcohol. Like, fuck that. Like, yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_00:

So, yes, you will lose those friends because that isn't really living.

SPEAKER_02:

No, and and you get to choose, like, um, and and it's not like you say, right, we had a bad relationship, we're not friends anymore. It just naturally goes, and then the friendships that you had that are meant to stay will stay and they'll get stronger.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_02:

And then on top of that, you'll get new, you'll make new friends, and so I feel that I've gained way more than I've I've I've lost nothing friendship-wise, like it was so unhealthy for everyone involved. Um, and and I have a lot of friends who I drank with who were great friends still because it wasn't that really toxic friendship. Yeah, they were they were people I connected with purely for out over alcohol. They that's why those toxic ones were so bad. It was only about alcohol. Whereas the two drinks I still have in my life, we we connected over things that weren't alcohol. We drank, we had great times, but we had a deeper friendship. So you don't lose those.

SPEAKER_00:

No, not at all.

SPEAKER_02:

You keep what you want to and what's gonna lift you up, like you said, you know, celebrating with good friendships.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, exactly. And it's not, yeah, there's none of that um jealousy. Like as I've spoken to, and that the person that I'm thinking of in my mind was the person that, you know, when I said I was taking my horse riding lessons, and they were like, Oh, yeah, that's expensive, and oh, we can't afford you know, how do you afford that? Or it was just that straight out fucking dig of that's I mean, now you'd think, well, that's jealousy, right?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Um I don't know, it's just not, and then I'm like, oh well, you know, you have to defend yourself. So yeah, just if you've got those sort of friends anyway, they're drinkers or not, that you're if you want to share something, um, and you know, they their their initial thing is like, oh, it's a negative or a backhand and a compliment. See you later. Like we're done. And it's now that we're you know, not beer goggled, well then you can recognise that. Which is just amazing because I again I've just you know, I've been thirteen when I started drinking, mate. Like you sort of don't really yeah, you're emotionally mature. And having the you know, giving Alcohol away is like learning to know myself. Totally. Know thyself, which is basically, yeah, knowing who's around me and who's got my back and who uh who doesn't, who feels good and who feels like and yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

And it's a growing up when we stop drinking, like because like you said, we kind of get stunted at the age.

SPEAKER_00:

We do.

SPEAKER_02:

Like I feel that I had a very immature marriage, and and that's okay. I'm sure a lot of people do. And I'm not blaming myself for that, but I I do have compassion that both me and my husband were pretty immature.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

I think you know, in life, there must be a lot of people that go into these relationships immaturely. But now that I'm on the other side, I'm really starting to get who I am and be true to myself, and so I don't invite that in again.

SPEAKER_00:

But well, yeah, that's the good, that's the thing when you're saying with the you know, with the romantic, uh, we won't be attracting that um vibration because that's nothing really a match, because I can see it for what it is.

SPEAKER_02:

Totally.

SPEAKER_00:

I think it's like, no, I'm gonna I'm I'm just bouncing a bit too high for you, mate.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes, see ya, totally.

SPEAKER_00:

But I won't even have to say see ya because they won't even be in my universe, you know. And at the moment it's just uh as they say, date yourself, intentionally date yourself. So I go, you know, today I'm off I've already been to the beach, but yeah, it just it's so much fun. You catch up with girlfriends, like yeah, just that actually I'm actually going to the pub this afternoon for me bloody, you know, lemon lemon bitters, and they're having their drinky poos, but um, and that's cool. Like people are allowed to drink. It was just the way I drank and the friends that we drank with, fucking there was no off switch. It was off switch at like 3 a.m. And I would be the last one up going, well, fucking, you know, what am I gonna do now? So I'd ring someone overseas because they would just be fucking waking up. Mate, there was always there was always plan B. Yes, my kids, I and I would literally watch the sunrise more times than most of my heavy drinking friends anyway. But you know, oh yeah, thank God I knew people overseas, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

But that's who we were that's I'd walk away going, Yes, I've made a new friend, if they could match my drinking.

SPEAKER_00:

I mean, that's all it was. I know, and that's why it was a highlight when you said it a few episodes ago. I'm like, we had to like we stopped recording, it's like, oh my god, Meg, that is gold, because I never thought of it that way. So that's why I wanted to, well, we wanted to revisit this or highlight this, you know, relationship with um, you know, like how toxic it can be, and and yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, what about like so? We used to go, oh my god, that person can drink until 6 a.m. Fuck, they've got to be my friend. I'm so excited. What about now? We can go, oh my god, that person has goals and dreams that kind of I relate to and feel excited about. Now I've got a new friend, you know, it's so much better um than picking the down and out. Oh, and I only picked them because that was me, but oh god, it's just so nice.

SPEAKER_00:

Misery loves company. It bam, there's another t-shirt, which I you know, it's an oldie, but it's a goldy. But it is, it's so true. Misery does company, and then it gets to the point where misery then has no company, and that's when it's there's that isolation, which is why you and I, you know, we eventually like if those people can't be out that night, then I would still have a Friday night by myself. Oh yeah, and that's fucking lonely, mate. That ain't living.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, before we go, can I just jump in and just quickly talk about something I'm um I'm offering for January? I'm going to be doing a it's a dry gen. Dry Jan. To start the year off. Um, so I will put up in the show notes, or you can just look on my website, MeganWeb.com.au, and there'll just be a link there. But it's gonna be there's gonna be like videos, and my friend Eliza's a coach, she'll be doing it with me. It's open for everyone. There'll be information on my website, and it's not a lot of money, and it'll kick start you.

SPEAKER_00:

And is it for the whole month of January? Is it a challenge?

SPEAKER_02:

It's a challenge for the whole month of Jan. It's um it's really uplifting. It's yeah, we have a few videos a week and some prompts to work on, and yeah, journaling. Some journaling, and it's for anyone, even if you're not drinking but you want some extra support. Yep. Or if you are drinking and and just want you can, you know, you don't have to not be drinking to do it.

SPEAKER_00:

Right.

SPEAKER_02:

But if you are curious or if you are wanting to kick start the year, or if you do want to stop drinking and have someone there to do it with you for the month, then that that's what it's for. So yeah, check, jump on my website and there'll be info there. Oh, wonderful! Yay! Well, thank you for letting me share that. And um, and also to all of our listeners, if you want us to talk about anything, please drop us a line. Yeah. And there's info in the show notes where you can contact us.

SPEAKER_00:

And don't forget to um subscribe. Please subscribe, yeah, and rate our episodes. I think we're tracking, yeah, in review. We're tracking pretty good, hey, Matt, Megsy.

SPEAKER_02:

We are, we are, we're growing our audience, thanks to you guys that are listening. So that makes us very happy.

SPEAKER_00:

It does. I'm very we're proud of uh you all, and uh keep on tuning in.

SPEAKER_02:

Absolutely, we will see you for our next episode in two weeks.

SPEAKER_00:

Awesome.

SPEAKER_02:

All right, have a good day too, or night, yes, have a good one, have a good one, everyone.

SPEAKER_00:

All right, so