Laughs without Lager

Ash Butterss!

• Ali and Meg

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The lie that keeps most of us stuck isn’t what we tell other people, it’s what we whisper to ourselves when no one is watching. We’re joined by Ash Butters (Behind the Smile), who just celebrated six years sober, and she gets radically honest about how addiction works: the secrecy, the self-betrayal, the “crutch” behaviors that sneak in after we quit drinking, and the slow rebuild of self-trust that finally makes an alcohol-free lifestyle feel like freedom instead of punishment.

We talk through Ash’s sobriety story from early blackouts and a high-functioning double life to the moment grief and trauma pushed binge drinking into daily dependence. She shares what rock bottom actually looked like for her, why rehab mattered, and how she stayed connected to recovery support when COVID lockdown wiped out normal aftercare. If you’ve ever wondered whether AA or a 12-step program can help, we unpack what changed when she was finally ready to hear the message.

From there, we zoom out into long-term sobriety tools that work in real life: boundaries in relationships, nervous system regulation, breathwork, meditation, prayer, gratitude, yoga, and the non-negotiables that help us handle anxiety and “life on life’s terms.” If you’re in early recovery, sober curious, or rebuilding after relapse, you’ll leave with practical relapse prevention insights and a reminder that healing is a process, not an event. Subscribe, share this with a friend who needs it, and leave a review telling us what tool you’re using this week.


Contact Us: 

https://www.meganwebb.com.au/podcast-1

meganwebbcoaching@gmail.com



Ali

insta:  https://www.instagram.com/idontdrinkfullstop/


Meg

website:  https://www.meganwebb.com.au/

insta: https://www.instagram.com/meganwebbcoaching/

Connect AF: https://www.elizaparkinson.com/groupcoaching

Alcohol-Free Milestones And Self-Esteem

SPEAKER_01

Hi Mexie, how are you?

SPEAKER_03

Hey Allie. I'm good. How are you?

SPEAKER_01

I'm very good and I'm very excited. We got a special guest. We do. Her name is Ash Butters from Behind the Smile. Hello, ladies.

SPEAKER_03

Hey Ash. Welcome. Welcome to Laughs Without Lager.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here. We're excited to have you.

SPEAKER_03

Yes, we are. Yes, we are. Um, Ash was just saying before that she was thinking about how cool it is that we're all alcohol free. And it is so bloody cool. I love it when we stop and remember that. So how how long are you alcohol free?

SPEAKER_00

Totally, because I think I can't remember exactly when I met each of you, but I feel like it was, gosh, at least three, if not four years ago. I just celebrated six years on the 24th of February. So not too long ago. Yeah, which is just mind-blowing. You know, I'd I couldn't get six hours at that point, you know. So to look at six years and to to not only have achieved that, but for the obsession around alcohol to have been removed. I think I thought that when you got sober, you know, sober people were must live such boring, awful lives where they just are holding on tightly every day trying not to drink. And that's just not the reality of my experience in sobriety. You know, that obsession to drink left within about six months. And albeit I still work a daily program to stay sober, but I have a freedom in my life today, which just means that, yeah, it's just it's just incredible to reflect upon. And yeah, to the fact that the fact that the three of us met so long ago and are still sober, that's actually quite rare. So yeah, I'm proud of us. Go us.

SPEAKER_01

Trailblazers, I tell you, it was from an upstream, but uh, it's it's just trialblazers, and that's what um sobriety's given me confidence in that I thought alcohol was giving me confidence, it was just stripping it away.

SPEAKER_00

Totally, and I always think back to the link between alcohol and our self-esteem. And I only could see upon reflection that when I was promising myself every morning that I wasn't going to pick up a drink today, and then I would end up drinking for whatever reason, whatever lie I'd managed to tell myself to give myself justification to do so. It was the breaking of that promise on a daily basis which really started to erode my self-esteem and my self-worth, which then creates that really vicious cycle where you're drinking on those empty feelings, and you can never get enough because you can never fill the hole in the soul. And the the reverse is true. When you keep that promise every day, your self-esteem grows, and like you said, Ali, your confidence grows, and then you m step into this space where you truly I'm in a place where now I know anything is possible, and that's so invigorating and so refreshing.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and there's no crutch, you know. Like, um, I mean, alcohol is my actually cigarettes was my first addiction. Um, but when I've actually ditched, I don't vape anymore. And I know, and I thought, again, like alcohol, I thought, fuck, I I loved vaping because you could do it anywhere. This is perfect, and you have a difficult conversation at work, I'd be like, I'm just gonna go to the toilet, and I'd suck the shit out of my vape.

SPEAKER_00

Vaping is such an interesting one, isn't it? You know, I I picked up cigarettes at I think I was about 13 or 14, and I smoked up until I went into rehab at 32. So half my life I was a smoker, and I, you know, I was a proper smoker. And you know, when I finally removed the cigarettes, I went into a rehab where you weren't allowed to smoke, and I think that was a blessing because I know down here in Melbourne, some of our the most popular rehabs here allow you to still smoke. Uh but but I didn't have that option at South Pacific, so I kicked all of it. I did pick cigarettes back up at around two years sober when I was having a really difficult time emotionally. I knew I didn't want to drink, but I just felt like I needed, like you said, that crutch, that something. And so I picked them up again for about a year, which was really hard to give up, really, really hard to give up. But I never picked up vapes. I tried them, but they I don't know, like it didn't give me the same hit that a cigarette did. So I feel like I'm very lucky in that sense because I've got some dear friends in recovery who are four or five years sober now, and they just cannot seem to keep the vape. So yeah, congratulations. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, thank you. That's awesome. Yeah, just another bloody addiction. I'm glad I because I smoked as a social smoker with drinking, it just paired. Um, but vapes weren't around, and I'm just grateful because it's just one less thing. Um but you know, I was at the hospital the other day, I had an ear problem ongoing, but that's fine. But there was a guy vaping, and um they did I didn't realise because he was I didn't even notice, but um the hospital staff are on it and they were like, You cannot do that in here.

SPEAKER_00

No, I wonder how many people vape in a in a plane toilet.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my new work colleague. I was shocked that both of them are out the front of the car park or at the car park, they're all they're saying they're vaping, and I was like, Boys, what are you doing? You know? And um, yeah, one of them said he actually vapes on the plane, and I I don't like flying. And I was just so paranoid that I didn't want to, you know, vape on a plane in case it fucking affected the I don't know, I just didn't want to get in trouble.

SPEAKER_03

You know what I did the other day? There was a news story that a vape caused a fire on a plane. Oh my god, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I'm glad I didn't see that.

SPEAKER_03

I'm just told you now, but they'll hopefully they'll crack down.

The Sneaky Habit Of Self-Lying

SPEAKER_01

But yeah, I mean it was I I again it was really hard. I actually got hypnotized for that as well. Um when I met you, Meg, I was I was so Meg and I met on a retreat. We shared a room. Oh yeah, and I was going so I'd wake up early because again, early morning I'd just literally autopilot, wake up, suck on the vape. And because I was sharing a room, I'm like, oh, this is gonna be awkward. So I'd go to the bathroom, I'll go to the toilet. I didn't know you vaped. I know, secrecy. I had no clue. I know, but I just I actually was in the mindset of wanting to quit, um, which in Thailand they're effing everywhere. You want vape, you want vape? And there was also marijuana. I'm like, oh fuck, kill me now. There's two of my favorite things were like in Thailand, which I just anyway, but um I did it, I stopped vaping about two weeks after we got back from the retreat. Like I had I just was ready and I went and saw a lady in Karatha, 250 bucks, done.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, that's incredible. Because what you spoke about just then, that the dangerous part, yes, of course, there's the the substance itself, we don't fully know what vapes are doing at this stage, but it's more for me the concern is the behaviour around it and being sneaky because doesn't that remind you of the behaviour we had around our drinking?

SPEAKER_01

Yes, yeah, it was funny because I didn't understand, Ash, what lying to myself was. And then come uh my birthday, so that was in May. I got hypnotized, end of May. My birthday's the 14th of June. I went out in Karatha and we went to a see a band after dinner, and I we ran into the toilet, and there was my friend ran into one stall, and then I looked out, and there was a vape on the vanity. And I grabbed, I grabbed it and I went, there's and I turned around, there was no one in there, and I thought, Oh, I could I looked at myself in the mirror and I thought I could take this home and suck the shit out of it and then just be done with it. But that would and then I said no, and I put it there, and I went to the toilet, and that's when it clicked. I went, that's what lying to yourself meant, because nobody else would know but me. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03

And it's actually the worst part is is like it becomes so normal to lie to yourself, you don't realize how much it affects you. That's the worst part. Like we tell ourselves if no one like I used to do it, if everyone was out of the house, yes, I can drink, but it's that shame and blame that subconsciously just grows, like you were saying, Ash, it just compounds. And when you do build that trust that you can go without it and change your life, that's when you realize how draining and exhausting and awful that lying to yourself was.

SPEAKER_00

I completely agree. It becomes so normalized when you're stuck in that cycle of dishonesty with yourself that you just become used to that feeling. But what that feeling is actually creating internally is a disconnect. When we feel like as humans, we're hardwired for connection. If we feel disconnected from ourselves or from others, we need to fill that with something else, and that's when we're gonna do something harmful, like pick up a drink.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, or be in a situation ship love addiction, you know, just that fucking lack of oh, just those unavailability to actually for me to be lovable, or you know, so it it's gambling, shopping, sex, whatever, sugar, yeah, sugar, work, work, study.

SPEAKER_03

But the interesting thing is there's such a stigma around alcohol and drugs and cigarettes and everything like that. But just what we said, I think almost everyone has a numbing out tool. So you know, whatever it looks like, some is more acceptable, but it's still the same. It's still a numbing.

SPEAKER_00

And I think you know what, to a degree that's okay. Like, I think we need to be a bit kinder to ourselves. We're living in a really crazy time in this world in life, and I think you know, we're dealing with more challenges than ever. And so, you know, if you have something that you rely on, like perhaps you you like to watch maths, and you just that's your one thing, you know, you're gonna sit down, you're gonna binge a reality TV show that's totally chaotic. I'm guilty, you know, but that's your thing, right? And then and then that's that's your outlet, that's a moment. That's okay. I think the real question is, is it causing me harm? And it's when it becomes a behavior that you continue to repeat despite the consequences, that's when the red flag needs to be waved.

Ash Butters Origin Story

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, definitely. Oh, I'm all for my binging, so 100%. And I've I'm okay with that. Like I'm I'm absolutely okay, like you said. But Ash, I think we probably should, just for the listeners, um, get you to tell us a bit about how you got to hear a bit about the story.

Partying To Daily Drinking

SPEAKER_00

Of course, I know we've just waffled straight into to girl chat. Um, hi everyone, it's so nice to be here. My name is Ash Butters. I recently celebrated Six Years Sober as as we were sharing, and you know, that just like I said blows my mind because six and a bit years ago, my life looked very, very different. You know, I had always been somebody from a young age who had always had that desire to want to try everything, to take risks, you know. Uh I think I from a young age also really had um a real need to be loved and accepted by others. I I know now upon reflection with my adult mind that I sought validation from other people. You know, I didn't have enough of my own self-esteem and self-worth. So I really relied on others to give me that. And so from a really young age, I was very good at changing who I needed to be to suit any given environment. So I, you know, very much described as the chameleon, somebody who could read a room. I was hyper-vigilant. I did grow up in an alcoholic home with two parents who drank heavily, so I think that also contributed to the hyper-vigilance. But you know, I just always wanted to be the star of the show, I wanted to be the best. I was I've always felt like I was competing with my older brother for the spotlight for my parents' attention, and that then filtered into you know my behaviours. And so I had my first drink at the age of 12, drank to blackout that very first time, and from that moment I just knew that I loved alcohol. And even though that night I got in so much trouble because we were at this big Christmas party down here in Melbourne, and with with my my whole family were there, and and a lot of other people, Melbourne people, and I drank to blackout, I vomited in the toilet, mum and dad had to take me home early, and I remember sitting in the taxi and I was lying. I was like, I didn't drink, what are you talking about? So ridiculous. It was so obvious that I was drunk. And I remember I got grounded, you know, for quite a long time from that incident. And it's really interesting, and I guess this is the difference between maybe myself, who I believe I've always had the mind of an alcoholic, and maybe someone who's more of a normal, temperate drinker, is that when I got grounded and you know, vomited and blacked out, I didn't think to myself, oh, I better not do that again. I thought to myself, I need to get better at hiding this. So it's just really, I just think it was there from the from the outset for me personally. And so I continued to drink to blackout and drink with an alcoholic nature throughout my entire teenage years. But I really had this juxtaposition between being somebody who partied hard on the weekends and did everything I wasn't meant to be doing, but then when I got to school, I was the complete opposite. I was this little angel with a halo around her head, I was friends with all of my teachers, I was getting straight A's, I was in the choir, you know. I and I and I and that was also true. I wasn't faking that. I actually that was very much a part of me. I loved being involved in school, I loved school, I loved music, and I loved, I really felt at home there. I felt more home at school than I did at home. But then yeah, it was almost like this perfectionistic little girl who was trying so hard to keep it all together and to make sure everyone thought that I was perfect, it's almost like I had to let off steam on the weekends and almost just like allow myself to unravel and to be free from that pressure, and then it would come back to Monday and I'd pull it all together again. And that style of drinking kind of followed me throughout not only my teen years, then into my early 20s. I again I was drinking a lot in my 20s, um, dating a lot of the wrong people, getting myself in a lot of trouble. I ended up dropping out of uni when I was straight out of school because I was partying too much. I went and got my diploma in beauty therapy because I remember my parents said, Well, you have to do something. Um, and that was actually a really slight endorsed moment because that led me into a career in the beauty industry that I stayed in for the next 15 years. And all the while I was doing all the things. I was traveling, I was ticking life's boxes, ended up moving to Sydney in 2014, doing a bit of a geographical after I'd sufficiently burnt my life to the ground here in Melbourne. And what I mean by that is, you know, I'd I'd I treated a partner, a boyfriend that I had at the time, who was a really, really good guy, mind you. Treated him really poorly, blew that up. And I think at the time, I didn't know what was going on at the time, but I now see it as that real alcoholic hole in the soul, nothing felt like enough. And so I just I was, you know, he was very kind and calm and normal, and I think I was just bored. So, you know, I blew it up. And that's also, you know, I have to people need to understand that what was modeled to you as a child is often what you will then repeat as an adult. So I was used to watching two parents who loved each other really hard, but also fought really hard, and so there was a really chaotic di dynamic, and so I think I was trying to replicate that in my own relationships. So, as I said, I moved to Sydney in 2014. That wasn't good because then I was away from my friends and family, and I could really turn up the dial and start to drink the way I wanted to. I was using a lot of cocaine at the time as well, and that's where I met the man that I would then marry. So I fell in love with somebody who had their own addiction battles that they were struggling with. We really trauma bonded from the first night that we met, and that was, you know, we we had a lot of love for each other, but that was also a really toxic, chaotic relationship. And so we went on to get married in 2018, but that was also a really, really tough year for us because two weeks before we were to be married, we actually lost my well, he was my fiancee at the time, his brother. So, trigger warning for anybody listening along right now, but my brother-in-law took his own life, and that was really shocking for us for a number of reasons. We had absolutely no idea that it was coming. He lived with us, so it actually happened in our apartment in the bathroom.

SPEAKER_01

Sorry.

Rock Bottom And Choosing Rehab

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, no, like it's look, it's been eight years now. Actually, yeah, is it that long? It's been a long time, and so I've I've I've made peace with it. But yeah, at the time, it was really when I look back on my trajectory of drinking, that was the moment the the flip really switched from being a binge drinking party girl to a daily drinker who was dependent on alcohol because we basically found out what happened, then we had a week until the funeral, so we were drinking pretty much every day, and then the next week, the seven days after that, was our wedding. And it was really hard because he was the best man, you know, you could feel the space that he'd left in that sense. And I remember us having conversations with our family at the time about whether or not we'd go ahead, and you know, we decided to go ahead. It was, you know, and it was a big wedding. We had we had it at the grounds of Alexandria and Sydney, and it was, you know, a couple hundred people, and look, it was still a really beautiful day, but it was also a really heartbreaking day. Um, and then we went off onto our honeymoon, and so we still we just kept drinking, and so you know, this is like by this time it's three, four weeks of daily drinking, and then that's when I believe that that you know the the disease really took a hold of me, and I lost the power of choice, and then I just continued to drink every day for the next two years, and that's what really led me up to my rock bottom, which happened uh in at the start of 2020. And you know, it's interesting because people often ask, well, what was your rock bottom? And I think that everybody's rock bottom can look different, and there's always a trapdoor, you know, like you can keep going down. I'm just grateful that I got off when I did. It wasn't that I had done anything in particular, like I'd had way worse nights, um, you know, crashing cars, having big falling outs with people I cared about, um, splitting my head open, you know, I've done lots of crazy things drinking. There was nothing like that on this particular night, other than I had told my mum that I was going to be home. I was staying with her in Melbourne at the time, and I went to go out for a drink with friends, and I told her I'll be back, you know, in a couple of hours. And I ended up walking through the door the next morning, and just the look on her face, I'll never forget it, she was so broken because she'd seen me do this for years, and I think she just thought, you know, and it was you could tell that I wasn't doing well, you know, I'd put on a lot of weight, I was very puffy, very irritable. I'd lost the sparkle, you know, the shit that people have, that sparkle in their eyes, that was gone. Um, and she was she was just broken. And I in that moment something happened, and I knew that I couldn't continue living the way that I'd been living. I couldn't live with alcohol, I couldn't live without it, I was done. I was I was in a state of hopelessness, and I knew I needed help. And so that's when I actually said I need help. And we called a rehab that day. Seven days later I was admitted, and that was, you know, the the last day that I had a drink or a drug was the day before I went into rehab. So yeah, that's kind of how I got here. And um, I mean, my life since that day just looks could not look any more different than what it did six years ago.

SPEAKER_03

Amazing.

COVID Lockdown Recovery Support

SPEAKER_00

How long were you in rehab for? So the rehab that I went to was a 21-night inpatient stay. So I was there for three weeks, and then what was meant to happen after that was I was meant to go into transition, which is their aftercare program. But if you remember back to what was happening in February 2020, a little thing called COVID-19 was spreading around the world, and we were actually because we were allowed a five-minute phone call once a day, and I remember speaking to, you know, one day I'd call mum, the next day I'd call dad, then I'd call my husband. And I remember getting these little snippets of information from the outside world where people were saying it's really weird, everyone's stockpiling on toilet paper. There's all you know, there's this something's going around Europe right now. Oh my goodness, and then all of a sudden it had hit Australia. Seven days after I left rehab, we went into lockdown in Sydney. So unfortunately, my rehab, because this was even before we everyone had gone onto Zoom, they were like, we can't have you come to the hospital. They hadn't yet created a program online, so it was like, oh well, good luck. And so I never ended up doing that outpatient program. But I'm part of a 12-step fellowship, and that was really helpful because I just went straight from doing a meeting every day in rehab to doing a meeting every day out of rehab. That really helped me stay connected to my recovery program.

SPEAKER_03

And you mentioned South Pacific. They actually I um I went to AA for a period of not that long, but before COVID and South Pacific visited. So it probably was similar, like going from that to AA was definitely.

SPEAKER_00

It's funny. I had been to a couple of AA meetings prior to going to rehab. I think I would say maybe two two or three. Um In the years leading up, I my dad is in recovery, and so you know, there would be an incident where I would go out, I would do something to damage my life, and then I would wake up the next morning, tail between my legs, I'd call my dad, and I'd say, I need help. And so, really lovingly, he'd say, Well, why don't we try a meeting? And he would take me to a meeting. But the problem was at the time was I just wasn't ready. And so I often say, you know, I bet I I it was like I was physically there, but I wasn't present. I had cotton wool in my ears, I wasn't listening to anything, I was just full of shame, full of self, worried about someone seeing me, what would they think, you know, all that stuff. And so I always say to people, you know, if someone says, Oh, I tried AA once and I and I it just wasn't for me, like I that would have been my story as well if I hadn't gone to rehab. And it was actually not until about 10 days in that for me the fog started to lift, and I'd been clean and sober for about 10 days when I went to a meeting, and it it's like the penny dropped, and the cotton wool was removed out of my ears, and I was actually able to start to receive the message and understand what was going on, and that's when everything changed for me.

SPEAKER_03

Awesome.

SPEAKER_00

And you were still married, were you? Well, no, I am married, but not to that person.

SPEAKER_01

No, but yeah, but so you came out of rehab to your husband, then yes.

SPEAKER_00

So when I came out of rehab, I was still married at the time, and that first 12 months was incredibly difficult because I was living in a two-bedroom apartment in Bondi in lockdown with my husband, who was still using. Wow. So that was incredibly difficult. And I was actually just reading back on some journals quite recently about that time in my life and just how desperate I was for him to get clean because I was, you know, and I would I was trying to use all the tools that I'd been given at SPP, like how to set a boundary, how to share a reality. And I would be trying to come to some sort of agreement with this person who's a beautiful, beautiful person, but is struggling with an addiction. And so I'd be journaling about, you know, he's broken the promise again. Like one of the rules we had was please don't use in the house or around me. But then what would happen was he will he would just leave the house and not come back for two days or like, you know, and it was just it was so, so hard. Um, and to be honest, sometimes I look back at that 12 that first 12 months and I honestly wonder how I stayed sober. I think I was just so desperate to not go back to day one of somebody who's big on like protect your sobriety date. And and I I wasn't willing to give that up, but it was incredibly difficult. There were some nights where I was just laying on top of my bed, on top of the sheets, cuddling a teddy or a pillow, just crying, just praying to get to sleep so that I could get another day of sobriety and wake up and start afresh the next day. Like some days it literally was just hold on.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But every day that I did that, you know, that resilience grew, that's that promise, you know, that we were talking about earlier. It it solidified my determination. And, you know, I'm so grateful for those Zoom meetings because I was able to tap in, I was able to reach out to a sponsor. There was so many things that I was able to do to get that support, but that is not to say that it wasn't the hardest 12 months of my life. They also say in 12 step that you shouldn't make any big decisions in your first 12 months because the level of emotional intelligence, you know, the level of awareness that you have, and you guys would know this when you first get sober, compared to who you are 12 months later, and then 12 months after that, and then 12 months after that, like it's quite crazy to think about. You just become such a different person. And so I took that, I took all of the suggestions very seriously, and I think that's part of the reason why I've never relapsed because I've just always, you know, in that within that community, I've said, what do I need to do? Tell me what to do. I've never questioned it. And so I waited 12 months. I had started to know, I had an inkling that I was going to leave my marriage at about six months sober, because I had started to realize that if I stayed in an environment that were was, you know, there was my biggest trigger, which was my husband using, amongst other things, that eventually I would pick up a drink again.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

Living Alone And Emotional Growth

SPEAKER_00

And for me to pick up a drink would be to die because I was just on a fast track to it not ending good at all. And so I I waited though, and I continued to pray, and I really, really wanted it to work. But by the time it got to that year mark, um, and this, and to my to my ex-husband's credit, he actually did end up going to rehab during that time. He really did give it a shot, but it just wasn't working for him at that time. He's actually clean and sober now, which is amazing. He's like his four years, which is incredible. But you know, at that time, I truly believed that I had to leave that marriage for him to have his own journey into recovery. So I waited until that year, and then at that time I did decide to leave, and I actually moved from Sydney back to Melbourne, and that was the best decision that I could have made for myself. My entire support network is here in Melbourne, my family are here in Melbourne. We that second year was interesting because Melbourne was still locked down for a lot of that second year of COVID, but I got a little apartment by myself, I'd never lived alone before. It was just me and my little dog, and that was the year I say of self-discovery, where you know, we were talking before about how we can use all of these different external things to self-soothe and to maybe numb out a little bit. And, you know, I had never sat with myself, I'd never been in my own company. In fact, I think for a lot of women that's probably the case. Because you think about it, you grow up in a family home, this is you know, and then you go and live with girlfriends in a share house or some sort of community, and then you've mapped then you move in with a boyfriend, and then you're married, and it's like, oh my god, I've never actually been alone. And so that year was incredibly painful. Um you gotta sit in your shit and then you've got to feel it to heal it. That's exactly right. I was I had my shit smooshed all over the walls, it was like, yeah, we were we were in it, yeah. But I there was a lot of growth, you know. We talk about emotional intelligence and our EQ, and I do believe when people say you your emotional intelligence, if you are an alcoholic, is stunted when you pick up that first drink and drink to blackout. And so for me, that was 12 years old. And so I had a lot of catching up to do, and that's what that second year of recovery really allowed me to do. And then after that second year, that's when my life really just completely blossomed and everything changed. I changed careers, I met the person, my my now husband, the man that I would then would date, fall in love with, and then marry. Um yeah, every everything changed, you know, in that sort of two to three year mark, which, you know, for people who are listening along right now and you're in the early days, just hold on because it does get better. And the level of self-awareness, of self-discovery that is available to you on this journey is incredible, but it does take time. You can't, I don't know anyone that's managed to like skip the bad stuff, you know, to get to the good. I think you have to, the only way is through. So just hold on.

Daily Practices That Protect Sobriety

SPEAKER_03

Definitely, definitely. Wow, and so you said earlier that you still work on your sobriety every day. So is that like the AA Yeah?

SPEAKER_00

So I'm I'm still part of a 12-step community in the sense that I I go to meetings, I sponsor women, I have a sponsor, um, I do all the things, and I, you know, I I'm a big advocate for that type of recovery because it worked for me and I'll always be transparent about that. Um, but I also do a lot of other things. So, you know, uh for me, when I at you know, at about that two-year mark is when I started to realize that the corporate job that I had that I had worked really hard to step into and I thought was my dream job, all of a sudden didn't feel like it was in alignment. And so I remember starting to really explore different spiritual aspects of my life, and I went and did my yoga teacher training, and that really cracked me open. You know, that along with the 12 steps was like I say the deepest personal transformation you could ever do in your life. And then I started to go, okay, well, what do I want to be doing with my life? And that led me down, you know, uh meditation and breath work, and that's really now the space that I work in today. But what that looks for me on a daily basis is making sure that I'm embodying those practices. So waking up, meditating, praying, writing a gratitude list, like really centering myself into those practices on a daily basis so that I can then move through the world with a deeper understanding of who I am, more connection to self, and then I get to show up as the best version of myself as well. And when I'm doing that on a daily basis, it means that not always, but for most of the time, I get to move through the day with integrity, with you know, a sense of putting my head on the pillow at night, going, that was a really great day. You know, in the past, I would get to the end of the day and I'd need a drink because I'd be feeling so shit about myself. That just doesn't happen today, you know, and it's not perfect by any stretch, but it's definitely, it just allows me to feel, you know, I was talking before about one of the one of the ways that we're going to be driven to a drink is if we feel disconnected. And you can be you can be in a house full of people and still feel alone. So making sure that I work on that inner self, that inner work, we call it svadiaya in the yogic practice, which is is all about self-study and self-inquiry, and really starting with that as a foundation, and then that allows me to show up in the world like I, you know, as the person I want to be. So I just I see that as being as integral to my to maintaining long-term sobriety for me as going to meetings and doing the stuff in 12 steps.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I remember when I was on your um show, Ash, you asked me at the end what was my non-negotiables, and I was like, I I was there's bloody crickets because I I hadn't actually thought about it, but I didn't actually like yeah, I just thought, oh, what do you mean? And you know, and and again it's that sort of you know, what what do I how do you maintain your sobriety and and what's the non-negotiables and your boundaries and things like that? So yeah, that um is I guess what you're saying with you know, you wake up, you meditate, you journal, your gratitude, and you know, like for me, you know, it's getting up at like I've got two little dogs that you just saw. Um you know, anyone think I had freaking kelpies because I get up at 5 a.m. and I walk these little buggers around the block in the dark, and I'm thinking, but that's you know, for me, that's my way of starting and just connecting to you know, looking at the moon and the stars, and it's just like breathe. And I always used to do it, but I always had a freaking hangover, and it was always, you know, there was just that resentment, oh fucking dogs, oh and the husband, we want to earwal the dogs, and just that anger straight away. Whereas now it's like just doesn't life just feel a lot more calmer because or because we're just I'm just not in that angry victim mode because I've got a headache because I I drank again.

SPEAKER_00

And just that self-hatred. Oh, without a doubt, there's two things that comes to mind there. It's the first thing that you know what you're touching on there, which really rings true, is that nervous system regulation. And you can achieve that however you want to achieve it. For me, it's through prayer and meditation in the morning. For you, it might be getting outside, walking the dogs. You know, what what are you doing to regulate your nervous system, to bring your body back to a place of homeostasis, of balance, so that you can handle what life is gonna throw at you. Because whether you're sober or not, I'm gonna tell you right now, shit's gonna happen. That's part of the deal. That's the contract we signed when we came onto this earth. So being able to handle life on life's terms. The other thing is if you are wanting to achieve long-term sobriety, you have to fundamentally change the person you are. The person who needed to drink to survive, to get through life, has to change to become a person who doesn't rely on alcohol. And one of the pathways that we do that is through these practices of getting to know yourself better, learning how to regulate your nervous system, so on and so forth. So it's really, I mean, the beautiful thing about sobriety is like people take many different paths. All three of us here on this call today have taken different paths, and that's wonderful. But it's about finding what works for you and then sticking with it.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, very true. Definitely. And just continuing, like the the hit, my favorite quote is healing is a process, not an event. And it's it's ongoing, but it excites me. Like I love the the healing, the cell, the personal growth journey, and it just keeps opening up new, you know, new and exciting things.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, because you never graduate. It's something I was I was writing about this on my reflection of six years, you know, and that was one of the big things I've learned is like this this personal development space, this personal growth, it's not a graduation. And then the second thing is the universe will only give you what you're ready to handle. So I almost see this spiritual path as a little bit like a video game. And so you'll be on a level, like remember back in the day, like Mario, and you'd be on a level for like days trying to like beat the level, and then you do, and then you'd go to the next level, and then you'd play that level until you'd mastered it, and then you go to the next level. That is how I view this path of sobriety, recovery, and spiritual growth.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, we love our spiritual growth.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Because it's well, it's one of those things that you don't know what you don't know. And so something, you know, you'll you'll do something else, and you go, Oh my god, I didn't know that about myself. Or or you might go, oh my god, what I've been, you know, learning over the last few years, I can see it now. It's you know, it's real. I did it.

SPEAKER_01

Um so yeah, it's one of those intuition, like we overwrote it. You know, I'm sure with your marriage and your wedding and you know, your body and everything it was telling run. Run. Oh no, I'll just, you know, I can change them, or you know, I'll just keep drinking and just be the people pleaser and just think, oh well, you know, this is this is it, this is all I deserve, or whatever the fucking thing that you're gonna say. But there's always that inner knowing that we were just pouring poison on top of, but then, you know, there was always like I used to always say, you know, universe, please, or God, please, you know, help me, or you know, just when you're in that hungover state and you're vomiting, you know, you're just praying like I just don't want to feel like this, and then yeah, just it just has to happen when it happens. But um so yeah, of course, when you take that out, then now our spirituality is like, oh, you know, yeah, we're connected because we're not drowning it out, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

That I always I think of it like a channel, you know, that channel from head to heart, and that ability to tap into your intuition and actually really listen to your gut. Because we've all got that feeling, you know, everybody knows that feeling of like oh something's but but whether or not you can trust that feeling is the next the next stage of developing your spirituality and really learning how to trust your intuition as well.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, because we couldn't trust ourselves. I mean, I couldn't trust myself because I wasn't I didn't grow up in that way, I just wasn't able to trust myself because of low self-worth or getting told you're not good enough or just whatever that label is.

SPEAKER_03

But um, yeah, certainly when you take that out and get to know yourself and it's like oh yeah, it's also how can you trust a gut instinct when your gut feels sick all the time and your head's cloudy and like there was no way I could know what the hell my gut was saying because it was just sick.

SPEAKER_00

And then coupled with the dishonesty that we were talking about, like you've got no chance.

SPEAKER_01

No, and anxiety, it's like I never thought I had anxiety until you know I did. And then you know, now I don't drink, I don't have to my guts isn't running to the toilet because I'm anxious. I mean, it's just little things like that, like that you learn about yourself, that it's like, oh yeah, so that's why I would never ever ever ever drink again because it's just well it's it's interesting having a son.

SPEAKER_03

My son's 17, he goes out, and that's a very high anxiety time for me. And I can really appreciate now that night times when he's out is when I drink in the past. Like that would have been my go-to. But um, speaking of breath work, I just do more breathing when I'm feeling anxious, and it's so amazing to see it the anxiety reduce with that. It's like incredible that I have the tool now or the tools to work on it in the moment, and you know, somehow I'm getting through this parenting gig without alcohol, and it's like I I couldn't have done that in the past, so it just opens up a whole new world.

Where To Find Ash

SPEAKER_00

And really taking your power back, and like you said, make to be able to self-regulate and know that you actually don't need one, you know, to you need to learn the tools, absolutely, but once you have them, you have them, and it's just a matter of actually using them.

SPEAKER_03

Absolutely. Well, Ash, where can uh our listeners find you?

SPEAKER_00

Oh my goodness, yes. If you want to reach out, if you want to chat, head over to my Instagram. It's probably the easiest. It's Ash Butters with two S's. I've got a couple of retreats this year, one happening in May, which is a women's retreat on the Gold Coast. That's really exciting. It's a weekend. And then I'm also doing Bali in August, which is four nights, five days. So if you want to chat more about that or anything else to do with sobriety, recovery, spirituality, then yeah, hit me up in the DMs and I'm more than happy to help. Thank you for having me, ladies.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, thank you so coming on. It's been amazing. It's been really, really lovely to talk to you, Ash, and we'd love to have you back because there's there's lots more to cover, I'm sure, and we uh have enjoyed the girly chat.

SPEAKER_00

So love the girl chats. Thanks so much, guys. Love what you're doing. Thank you. Thanks, Ash.