Alcohol Anxiety & Panic: Why I Quit Drinking at 27 with Veronica Valli

Alcohol didn’t start as a problem for Veronica Valli, it started as the promised doorway to fun, belonging, confidence, and connection. But after early blackouts, a drug-induced psychosis at 18, and years of anxiety and panic, drinking became something else entirely: survival. Veronica joins us to tell the unfiltered story of getting sober at 27, why she was convinced she’d never have fun again, and what finally cracked the “I’m the only one” isolation that keeps so many people stuck.

We talk about the moment in Alcoholics Anonymous that changed everything when she heard someone describe fear as the engine of drinking and realized the room was full of people who felt the same way. From there, we explore what happens after you quit alcohol and still don’t feel okay, including her “emotional rock bottom” at three years sober. That’s where emotional sobriety comes in: boundaries, resentments, belief systems, attachment patterns, and the missing life skills that can make a person sober but miserable.

Veronica also shares the practical framework behind her work and her books, including the five pillars of sobriety: movement, connection, balance, process, and growth. If you’re navigating sobriety, recovery from alcohol use disorder, or you’re tired of the dry drunk cycle, this conversation offers both hope and concrete tools. Subscribe, share this with someone who needs it, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway.

Contact Us: 

https://www.meganwebb.com.au/podcast-1

meganwebbcoaching@gmail.com

Ali

insta:  https://www.instagram.com/idontdrinkfullstop/

Meg

website:  https://www.meganwebb.com.au/

insta: https://www.instagram.com/meganwebbcoaching/

Connect AF: https://www.elizaparkinson.com/groupcoaching

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_00 0:42

Mixie, how are you?

SPEAKER_01 0:44

Hey Ali, I'm good. How are you?

SPEAKER_00 0:46

I'm very well. Nice to see you. I haven't um been together for a little while.

SPEAKER_01 0:52

No, we haven't. It's good to be back. And um and we've got a special guest today.

SPEAKER_00 0:57

We do. We have Veronica Valley with us.

SPEAKER_01 1:01

Veronica Valley.

SPEAKER_02 1:03

That's okay. Hi hi you guys. I'm just glad you got the Veronica bit right because I get Victoria and Vanessa and Valerie all the time. Valerie, I get a lot. You're a wedding.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

Awesome. Awesome. Well, welcome to the welcome to Laughs Without Lager. We're glad to have you here.

SPEAKER_02 1:20

Thank you. Laughs Without Lager, I love it.

SPEAKER_01 1:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

In fact, we didn't actually let you know though, Veronica, that um we need to ask you later on when did you last laugh without lager? But we can ask that later if you want to think about it.

SPEAKER_01 1:38

Have a think about it while we're talking, and um that's that's how we end. Um so it's it's great to have you here. We'd love to start with uh hearing about your story, how you got to where you are today.

SPEAKER_02 1:52

Sure. Um, so I've been I just celebrated 26 years of sobriety. Amazing! Yeah, I've been celebrated almost half my life. I got I was 27 when I stopped drinking.

unknown 2:03

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 2:05

And I I know people say this to me all the time. I mean, I definitely now look back and realize I how completely fortunate I was. And um people say that to me a lot, like, oh, you're so lucky that you, you know, you had that insight, you kind of could see you had a problem and you stopped it early. And I like none of that's true. I was desperate. I was by 27, I was desperate. I I just wouldn't have made it into my 40s, I don't think, let alone my 50s. So um I think we're similar ages and our our drinking cultures are very similar. So yeah, Gen X grew up, you know. I was going, I was getting into bars and nightclubs at 13 years old in England. Wow. And um,

Early Drinking And The Party Promise

SPEAKER_02 2:51

because of the promise, because of the promise of my culture that alcohol is the best way to have fun, excitement, belonging, connection, to relax and to reward yourself. And I couldn't wait to be part of that amazing grown-up world where everything looks so fun, and and um I drank alcoholically from the word go. I I was never able to control it. And I have this memory of being 15 years old in a pub in my hometown in England, and I went into blackout, and then I woke up outside the pub in the gutter, covered in my own vomit, with the landlord throwing a bucket of water over me when I came around. And I remember thinking, this isn't right. And um, like the next day, all my friends saying, like, oh my god, you're such a party girl, like, oh, you're wild. And I loved that, right? I loved that, and my brain filed that away as like, I'm a party girl. Um so I was a binge drinker, you know, it was like right at the beginning of the 90s when feminism was, you know, binge drinking was sold as feminism that we can drink like the boys, and I loved it. Like my it's I could not conceive of a social life without like drinking, like the pub and like the World Cups on at the moment at the moment. It was like anything, you know, everything was about drinking, and I loved it, and I had a great time, I think. Um, but I had a really high cost, you know, I had really bad hangovers, I could never control it. I'd nearly always ended up doing something I regretted, spending too much money, all that kind of stuff. But none of that seemed to matter when you were a teenager or in your early 20s. Um I hit my rock bottom when I was 18. I went into um I also did drugs. I didn't ever think about saying no to drugs, just took whatever. And um I went into drug-induced psychosis because of hallucinogenics. And at 18 I was suicidal. And that's when that's when my drinking changed. And it changed from like being a party girl to um a part the result of the drug-induced psychosis. I had hallucinary or like auditory hallucinations, and I had really bad panic attacks and anxiety. And I had I I couldn't even begin to articulate that and ask for help. Like I had no idea how to put that into words. So I hit it and pretended I was fine. Meanwhile, I was suicidal, and um very quickly, uh alcohol helped me cope with the anxiety, or I believed it helped me cope. I mean, obviously it made it worse, but I didn't like when that anxiety and panic would hit. If I had the opportunity to drink alcohol, I took it. So I began to need to drink before any social situation. And then I needed to drink before, like, you know, when I was going to college when I was like 22, 23, I was drinking vodka out of um a bottle of coke at nine in the morning so I could walk into a lecture room. And I thought my problem was I couldn't manage alcohol. That's what I thought the problem was. And if I could just figure that out, just figure out how to drink without the hangovers and the feeling like dreadful for days, um, then everything would be fine. Um, I did eventually ask for help from a doctor and that started a prescription drug habit. And I spent, yeah, I spent like eight or nine years looking for help and looking for the answer. Like, what is wrong with me? There was something there's something wrong with me. What is it and what's the solution? Um, I did geographicals, I I came back and forth to the United States. I, you know, switched boyfriends, switched jobs, switched, you know, went to doctors, psychiatrist, psychologists, like looking for the thing.

SPEAKER_01 7:04

I just want to jump in quickly. It I cannot tell you how similar this is this sounds to me. Um I but different but similar. Like I didn't start till I was 18 and I didn't do drugs, but I was a binge drinker from day one and I had a psychologist from 17 and I'd been looking what's wrong with me for a long time as well. So I totally relate to that and um that you know how hard it was to to get the help back then. Um, but you know, amazing that you did it, and by 27 you turned things around. So how did that happen?

SPEAKER_02 7:40

Well, uh my last geographical was to Key West in Florida, which um is a very it's an island off uh off of the Florida Keys, so it's a party, party, party place. And there was um lots of cocaine, and that just finished me off. Just like I like my mental health was just hanging by a thread, and I was desperate. I was desperate. I felt very, very, very alone. Um, I had no like zero support. I had a I had a boyfriend at the time who was actually, he came to my first AA meeting with me. He he was actually fairly supportive, but I didn't have like family or like I anything like that. And I was uh loneliness was a real kind of big part of my story. Like I was very, very lonely. Like I I felt like I was behind a glass screen and everybody was one side getting on with life and having a great time, and I was the other side, and I I felt like I was I felt like I was dying on the inside. Like I just I couldn't have a successful relationship, I could just about hold down a job. All my relationships were difficult. I I was constantly anxious and afraid and desperate, like it wasn't a life, it was existing. So that that's you know, all of those things gave me the gift of desperation. And I met some I met I met a woman who was sober, and that I like was like what that's a thing. Like I thought everyone drank, and I just thought everyone just managed it better than I did. And uh she her she was a recovered alcoholic, and she said that you know she'd stop drinking, and and I was like that blew my mind. I was like, that you can do that, and then a long story short, I uh because of my anxiety and panic attacks, I found group situations very hard. I I I couldn't really be in groups, and I but I could you know deal with one-to-one. Anyway, I ended up going to college and studying an addictions therapist qualification because I thought that's fine, like I can do one-on-one. Uh, you know, I might I had a college degree in that kind of area, and and just thought, oh, that's what I'll do, I'll help these poor alcoholics. And um, I don't know, I kind of all these things converged. Like I was like, like I I was so not awake, like I was just sleepwalking through my life. But these like I'd met this woman and I was doing this course. They said, Oh, you should, you know, go and check out some AA meetings to just see what the client group is like that

Anxiety, Psychosis, And Desperation

SPEAKER_02 10:21

you're gonna live with, you're gonna work with, and um and uh I don't know even know why. Like I went, I remember my last drink was um like a party in Key West, and you had to get these tokens to get like you had to like show your ID, get tokens to be able to go and get wine from these various different places. And I I came home with tokens, like I didn't take spend all my wine tokens, and I was like, uh huh. And um, I don't know, the next day I was like, I'm just not gonna drink today, and that turned into a week and it turned into a month. And I at the end of the month, I felt incredible, like I was just like, I can only describe it as feeling like born again because I had been like hung over and exhausted for like a decade. Like I'd never not felt like that. And 30 days of not drinking and exercising, I felt like a million dollars. I was like, wow. And um, I didn't even know if that was gonna be like I didn't know what I was doing. I was just like, I'm not, I'll see if I can do another week and another week. I didn't all my friends were fair weather drinking friends, so I didn't really have anyone to hang out with, and I just sort of, you know, got on with it anyway. I went to I went to some AA meetings, and I didn't really identify, I was much younger. People had had all these kind of like DUIs and divorces and bankruptcies, and none of that stuff had happened to me. And um, I didn't know if I, you know, again, I didn't really think I was an alcoholic. I just thought I had a very rare mental health condition that nobody else had. And I was in an AA meeting, and I uh was listening to a man speak, and he spoke about fear, and he spoke about fear as the engine of his drinking, and that he drank because he was so full of fear of everything and anything and nothing, and he couldn't manage the fear, and that's what why he drank. And I just sat there, went, Oh my god, I thought I was the only one. I had no idea anyone else felt like that. And the whole room was nodding and going, Yeah, me too. And I was like, That's me, that's why I drink, and it was that that is the moment the light bulb went on, and I went, Oh my god, I'm an alcoholic. And I felt, I'll be really honest with you. Oh, where is that? Sorry, let me turn that off. Um, I felt tremendous um relief. I was like, oh, is that what it is? Wait, what do I do then? Is that the the solution to these 12 steps? Right, where do I start? Time me up, I'll do I'll start tomorrow. Like I I say this a lot. You have to understand what your problem is before you embark on the solution. Like, I thought my problem was anxiety, I thought my problem was depression, I thought my problem was I couldn't keep a boyfriend, I thought my problem was a rare mental health problem. It it wasn't really any of those things. It was alcoholism as I understand it. I I I mean, I still go to AA, and um it was the spiritual malady, restless, irritable, and discontent. And that I was treating that with alcohol. So this just light bulb went on, and I was just like, I I had been desperately looking for a solution for so long. What I so I was like, gift of desperation, like I was desperate, I will, I will do just tell me what to do to not feel like this. Like I just want to feel okay. Like, and I had such small, like, I just want to feel okay. I just want a little flat and a little job, and just not like that's it, that's all I want. I don't want anything else that that would suit me fine. And um off off I went and um that you know began my my journey of sobriety, and then I I went back to England and I qualified as a psychotherapist and began my work and all of that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_00 14:16

Wow, what's the what's the connection with America?

SPEAKER_02 14:21

Really accident. Um my one of my my best friend uh came to travel in America after we uh like graduated high school in the UK, and they were like, you should come and visit us when we you know go go get land somewhere nice. And I'd never even been on an airplane before. And they were in Key Western, Florida, and I went to visit them on vacation. And um, the holy grail of an alcoholic is where's the party? Yes, like where's the party? Because I know there's a really good party somewhere, I just gotta find like that party. And I got to Key West just like it's here.

SPEAKER_00 15:02

Well, I mean, when I when you said Key West Florida, I mean I've never been to America, but I was literally like doing the yeah, mean, where's the party? And that's just because of the name, right? So it's a pretty Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:16

I'm sure you have must have the equivalent in like your Australian culture, like there's a party vacation place, like it's that.

SPEAKER_01 15:24

I think it's barley, to be honest. I've never I've never been there, but that that comes to mind.

SPEAKER_00 15:32

Yeah, international cheap alcohol, because Australia it's very expensive to drink. They tax it so high. So UK is the same, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:42

In my younger years, though, because I haven't drunk in Australia for you know four and a half years, it's all got more expensive. But in my younger years, we found the cheapest places, and I would go around the nightclub and just pick up people's dregs. I mean, yeah, I always found a way to and and also when I finished as a drinker drinking at home,

Key West, AA, And The Lightbulb

SPEAKER_01 16:01

I just got four dollar bottles of wine. So it's always a way. Where there's a will, there's a way.

SPEAKER_02 16:06

Oh, a hundred percent. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:08

Yeah, yeah. So Veronica, so you're saying so AA was where you did the work on yourself and how you've got to to hear you said you still go.

SPEAKER_02 16:18

Yeah. I um so I hit uh three years sober, I hit what I call an emotional rock bottom. Like everything in my life was better, right? I had the flat and the car, and I had I had a career instead of a job. I was a qualified psychotherapist by that point working in rehab. And um I I hit an emotional rock bottom because I still could not sustain any kind of romantic relationship. I was full of self-loathing, I was full of um uh insecurity, and I I just I couldn't sustain a relationship beyond a few weeks, and that brought me to an emotional rock bottom. And that's when I got the second gift of desperation, because I was desperate, I was about 30 at that point, and I was desperate not to feel the way that I was feeling, which was again was dying on the inside, and I didn't want to drink. Like I didn't want to drink, I just didn't know how I was gonna live feeling this way for the rest of my life. And um, so I that's when I found emotional sobriety. That's when I I was not, I thought I was doing the work, but I wasn't doing the work, and and the work is about uh fundamentally having a shift in perception and an emotional rearrangement. It's about having a different response to the world. And I was, yeah, so I still had just a lot of, and again, I was a therapist, so I understood about attachment and abandonment and family systems, like I understood all of that. I just couldn't stop these unhealthy relating patterns that I had. And uh, so that gift of desperation forced me to do the work of emotional sobriety, and that's kind of like shaped my sobriety and then my all my work going forward. That uh sobriety is 10% not drinking and 90% emotional sobriety. You you you've got to sort out the inner stuff.

SPEAKER_01 18:11

So, how did you do that work?

SPEAKER_02 18:14

Um, for me, it was a mixture of um the doing the 12 steps. It was um a lot of kind of stuff that I pulled together, like therapy, but it like the 12 steps for me were the framework. Um, it was uh I think number one, one of the most important it what I was missing, and this is what I see in all my clients, is we were missing really core life skills. So um I think one of the absolute defining characteristics is we take everything personally, we make everything about us, you know. If I, you know, see you at work and you're like, yeah, hey, and short with me, I would just spend the rest of the day being, oh my god, does Alison like me? Right? I just would take everything personally. So I would take highly sensitive, all of that kind of stuff. So being able to deal with resentments, understanding that nothing's personal, that other people's behavior is a is a reflection of what's going on with them, not me, uh, being able to reprogram my belief system. My belief system was um I believed, like I believe the sun was set tonight, that I wasn't good enough. And because I wasn't good enough, I wasn't going to be loved. And and if you believe that about yourself, well, what kind of relationships do you think you're gonna attract into your life? If you believe or not whether you're being loved, you'll just attract relationships that prove that to you over and over and over again. So I I mean that just seems laughable to me now. Like I and it's not that you know, you I think like I'm the best ever. It's just uh I just know that I'm I'm all right. I'm all right in who I am. I'm I'm I'm I'm a really flawed, messy, imperfect human being and and but worthy of being loved. Um being able to learn how to have boundaries, like I couldn't have boundaries with my mother, and that was a very, very difficult relationship. So it was honestly, it's missing life skills in how we navigate and move through the world and communicate with other people and how we process information. And that work was revolutionary for me, it completely changed my life. Um, and that's what I've been teaching ever since.

SPEAKER_01 20:22

Amazing.

SPEAKER_02 20:23

And you've written a book. I've written three books. So my first book was uh Oh, sorry. That's okay, uh, Why You Drink and How to Stop, which came out, I don't know, a long time ago now. And then my let last book was uh Soberful.

SPEAKER_00 20:37

That's the one I um was hooking into, yeah. I mean, again, like I think because we drank so early from such a young age, and I was brought up by emotionally immature parents that I was emotionally immature, and and until you, you know, do the work, as we say in air quotes, um yeah, you can basically just yeah, you stop the alcohol or the drugs or whatever. Uh, but then what? You've got to actually then, you know, rechange the neural pathways, and that's what I guess doing the work is, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 21:13

Yeah, it I wrote the book because I was just in a lot of sobriety Facebook groups, and then I would see um people like you know, a few months sober but really unhappy, you

Emotional Rock Bottom And Real Work

SPEAKER_02 21:26

know, complaining about their partner or their parents or somebody. And I I would read it and think, oh, well, that's because you don't have good boundaries. You you just need to communicate what your boundaries are. Or I'd read something else and go, well, that's because you're you you sound very bitter and resentful. And that's you know, if you're telling yourself this story that it's not fair and whatever, you're you're gonna feel bitter resentful and you're gonna, and then I was like, Oh, people don't have a program. They need like they need a therapeutic program because lots of people are not gonna go to AA or smart recovery or whatever. So I wrote the book to give like a therapeutic, like these are the things you need to have and do. They're personal development. It's you know, you need to balance uh the five pillars of sobriety are um movement, you have to exercise and you have to be conscious about what you want to move towards and what you want to move away from. Like, don't be just floating around, be like, where are you going and what are you leaving behind? Uh, connection, you have to have meaningful connection with other people, you have to protect your relationships and invest your relationships, but you also need boundaries and balance to do that. So, um, balance is about balancing your needs according to your circumstances and then process and growth, and process is about understanding why you are the way you are. And changing what it doesn't work, dealing with belief systems and resentments and that kind of stuff. And growth is you're being called to grow. Everybody's being called to grow. And growth is scary and uncomfortable. And nevertheless, we have to grow. So that's the five pillars of sobriety. For people who just, you know, have stopped drinking and wondering why they're not okay.

SPEAKER_00 23:05

Well, it makes sense, doesn't it? Yeah. Because I mean, we have that term dry drunk. And you know, that's when you haven't done the work or you're not doing it, or you've still got that, you know, romanticising the past and living in that the door, yeah, you still you haven't gone over that full, you haven't, yeah, fully slammed the door shut on whatever vice that you've been using to cope.

SPEAKER_01 23:31

Yeah. Yeah. And I I think the problem I face with um a lot of people on this journey or clients, you know, is that the stopping alcohol is one thing and people uh some people think, well, that's it, I've done it. But the work is where the change happens. Um and that's what's you know worked for us. Um for me. But yeah, it's like choose your hard. Do you want to stop and do the work or do you want to keep drinking? I mean, for me, like you said, Veronica, you didn't know if you'd make it to your 40s. I was exactly the same. Um, I was in my 40s when I stopped drinking, but one year if I looked at where will I be a year from now, if I don't stop, I didn't know if I'd be here. So it was it was very much worth doing the heart of the work. But I actually love the work, so you know it's well that's that that's the gift.

SPEAKER_02 24:26

That's what people don't realize is we come into this because we want to stop drinking. We come to this because we want to stop the pain. Like that's it's the pain that motivates us. It's like I just want the pain to stop and alcohol to not be an issue. And what most what people don't realize I didn't, nobody does, is it's an invitation to walk through a door of of growth and change and personal development that would blow your brains out if you really knew what like I I can't even conceive of not having this journey, right? It it's it it's sometimes I I don't like the word hard, you know. Getting when people say oh getting sober is hard, it's not having an alcohol problem is hard, it's really hard having an alcohol problem. Getting sober requires effort, and and but the effort is so worth it, and it doesn't stop. You know, at 26 years sober, the rewards and the gifts and the growth of sobriety continue.

SPEAKER_00 25:25

Yeah, it's because I mean it's the gift that keeps on giving in the most positive way instead of the ex that's the gift that keeps on giving in the negative way, or you know, the alcohol or whatever. But it truly is sobriety is the gift that keeps on giving, and you know, that's why we do the what we do is because it's you know, you just want to shout it to the rooftops and go, everyone, wake up! Like it's so worth it. It's so worth it. It's so worth it, you know, like but until you get to that something that has to whatever it takes to get that light bulb moment, you know, it yeah, unfortunately it takes people a rock bottom. Um, it didn't really for me, but yeah, just somewhere just deep down inside we all know that this

Boundaries, Beliefs, And Five Pillars

SPEAKER_00 26:11

is shit. And you know, hopefully one day, like for us, that people go, yeah, this is shit. I'm gonna give it a go.

SPEAKER_01 26:21

I was gonna say, Veronica, I like that you said desperation. You got to desperation. I I resonated.

SPEAKER_02 26:27

It desperation helps a lot, it's very motivating. It's really, really motivating. And I don't think I would have done this without desperation. I was so desperate to not feel the way that I was feeling. But what I was gonna say is the reason that people struggle is because of the sobriety is just a shift in perception, right? When I stopped drinking at 27 years old, I 100% believed my life was over. I I a hundred percent believed that I was never gonna have fun again. Like I was never gonna party, I was never gonna get laid again. Like I just thought I was gonna be be quite dull, boring, and gray. But I I accepted that if it meant I didn't have the anxiety and panic attacks, but I wasn't happy about it. I just was like, okay, fine, I'll just be this like, but and surrender. Yeah. And that's what people struggle it with, is they believe they have to give up, fine, excitement, belonging, connection, all of that stuff in order. And who wants to do that? Nobody wants to do that. Who wants to live a life without that stuff? But that's that's the thing that you realize is, and it takes it's not on day three, it takes a little bit of time, but you begin to realize that um none of that's true. I I was about 18 months sober, and I was out with some friends, in fact, I think they were Aussies, and uh we were at I used to have all these Australian and Kiwi friends because they're so great, they especially the Kiwis, um, they do everything. They're like every concert they want to go to, everything because they're like nobody comes to New Zealand, so they were like always up for you know, if there was a band, if there was something that so I did it, I had a lot of these friends. Anyway, we were, I think we were at U2 or some concert in London, and um, you know, I'm there like you know, the front with the songs, and they like we're taking 20 minutes to go to the bar, and then 20 minutes to go to the toilet, and I'm like, we paid all this money, we came all this way, I am singing, I'm dancing, and you're missing these best songs from a band you said is a once in a lifetime. And like I'm having more fun than you are, and then that's when that's when the shift, that's when I went, Oh, I'm not missing out on anything. And I, because I got sober in my 20s, I mean I was clubbing. I was going to club, I love dancing, I was going clubbing, I was going to music festivals, parties, everything. Like, I've done everything sober, every single thing. You know, my wedding was like 60% sober people, and we cut like they we closed the bar. They asked us to leave. They were like, it's time, right? We were dancing so much. So, like, all of that is a perception. It's just the it you see the world one way, and then something happens and you realize that the how you saw the world was actually incorrect. And and so we have to change the story. That's really important.

SPEAKER_01 29:22

Absolutely. So, Veronica, what do you do now these days?

SPEAKER_02 29:28

So I was a psychotherapist in the UK, and I I ran a clinic and I had a private practice, and then I my husband's American, so I went back to England, met an American, came back to America. Um, so I live in the deep south now. We've lived all over the States, but live in the deep south, and I've worked as a sobriety coach really since I've been here. And I it all kind of happened very organically. Like I published my books, and then people started reaching out saying, Can I work with you? And and so I I work as a sobriety coach. I I have a like a women's group that I run and a bunch of digital products and all of that kind of stuff, and then I have my podcast and all that kind of stuff. So you know, I've done this for 25 years now in in different ways.

SPEAKER_01 30:08

Amazing. So, where can people find you?

SPEAKER_02 30:12

So if you just put soberful or my name, Veronica Valley, it's V-A-L-L-I. If you just put that into Google or I'm on social media, I think my Instagram is Veronica J Valley. You can you can find me there. Um, the podcast is called the Soberful Podcast. So I think I'm quite findable.

SPEAKER_01 30:29

Easy, easy to find, yeah, absolutely. So, Ellie, do you want to ask the last question?

SPEAKER_00 30:36

Oh so Veronica, we we ask our guests at the end of the show, when did you last laugh without lager?

SPEAKER_02 30:47

Well, you know, one of the things that I love I that you notice fairly early on is I remember seeing this in clients, is like the first time you really like belly laugh when you're sober, everybody kind of says, that was different, right? That was different, like laughing sober is is deeper, it's different. So I have like, I mean, so many times of that. This isn't the last time, but this is the one I can remember was when uh just last Christmas we were all in California with my husband's family, and we have grandkids,

Life Now, Where To Find Her

SPEAKER_02 31:21

and I have kids, and we were we were trying to play, we were I can't remember the board game. We were trying to play a board game as her family, and it was like herding cats, like one person would sit down and the next, and then that person didn't understand the rules, and then it was like that we it was generations this gen, and and it was just like we couldn't play the game, and we were all laughing so hard. I I don't know what it was about, but it was so funny. But that the one of the things I noticed or noticed a long time ago is like I don't really think about having fun, it just happens quite organically, right? I mean, sure, we do things that are fun, like you know, sure, but fun just and laughs just happen regularly, like you don't have to manufacture them.

SPEAKER_00 32:12

And I mean that that to me just screams laughing at yourself. Yes. Oh yes, yeah. That that you know, we can do that all the time without that critical the negative. It just you know, like you're just laughing and you know, having a chuckle. So I guess we do that now in a um yeah, we just laugh at ourselves with that.

SPEAKER_02 32:33

Yeah, my husband and I laugh a lot. Like we we there's two people in the world that can make me helpless with laughter, like just helplesses, my husband and my best friend. There's so many incidences with my best friend. We are literally like disabled with laughter because we find the same things. We've been in so many situations, like grown-up situations where you know when you're trying not to laugh and we're just like it's the worst. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:57

Oh, that's wonderful. So cool. Well, thank you so much, Veronica, for your time and coming on and sharing. Um, it was really inspiring talking with you, and I'm sure it will be for our listeners too.

SPEAKER_02 33:10

You're welcome. Thanks, guys.